• AdLib : Night Sally!

  • SallyT : Good night, AdLib!

  • SallyT : I’ll have them to you tomorrow late afternoon!

  • AdLib : That’s easy! And I’ll get a sneak peak!

  • SallyT : I’ll tell you that right now it is the last one. I don’t think I will be moving it up, tho.

  • AdLib : Heh, I will be looking forward to that one!

  • AdLib : Pope and Perry, sounds like a comedy team!

  • SallyT : Oh, and I will tell you first, my favorite is Bush in the bathtub! Watch for it!

  • SallyT : There are some good ones, especially on the Pope!

  • AdLib : Absolutely! And looking forward to the Sunday Funnies!

  • SallyT : You do the same. See you later around here somewhere!

  • AdLib : Sally, closing time and we get to split the tips again! Have a wonderful holiday weekend!

  • SallyT : Turn off the lights AdLib and I’ll get the door.

  • choicelady : Night all!

  • SallyT : Good night CL and see you later in the funny section!

  • AdLib : Give that kitty a pet for me and get some well earned rest, CL! Night!

  • AdLib : And at this rate, CA should be in a better condition in 2014. So CA on the way up, TX on the way down. Where do businesses want to be, up or down?

  • choicelady : Don’t know where Murph went, but I think I need to head to bed, too. Up early. Our one remaining cat has picked up the mantle of the older one and rousts me the moment he detects even the faintest consciousness. I’m just not interested in fun with kitties at 5:30 in the morning, but he’s pretty determined I MUST be. So I’m tottering off to bed. See you in the funny papers, Sally! Goodnight AdLib – be well. And great weekend Murph, wherever you are.

  • AdLib : Sally – What many people don’t know is how TX is going to run head on into an economic wall in 2014. They budget for 2 years at a time and have rigged the last 2 years of big deficits to explode in 2014. The state is at the bottom of the list about standard of living in the US, in education, health care, etc. and when the massive cuts are needed in 2014, people and businesses will find themselves hammered.

  • SallyT : Cl, you would have to pay me to live in TX with Perry as Gov. I guess that is what they are trying to do to get business there….

  • SallyT : It’s back fire from the re fried beans, CL!

  • choicelady : Sally – I’ll be looking for it all, thank you!

  • choicelady : Sally – who’d want to start a business in a state that bursts into flames every year? Even CA doesn’t do that.

  • SallyT : Oh, CL, Perry is in the cartoons! You will laugh, I am sure!

  • AdLib : All good stuff (minus the awful campaign for gov…which gave us Arnold). Top notch pro who’s right on the issues.

  • choicelady : Sally – can hardly wait to see those. Why any business would look kindly on a man who gave the kind of performance Perry did as presidential candidate, I don’t know. He’s a perfect idiot. Makes George look like a rocket scientist. And TX has the lowest ranking of almost everything that matters, but they do have low business costs. But then – you’d have to work in TEXAS.

  • choicelady : AdLib – he was an excellent Treasurer, he has been an outstanding proponent of bringing blue collar labor together with environmentalist s, and he was chair of the financial collapse inquiry. He ran the most piss poor governor’s campaign EVER, but everyone makes mistakes!! He’s really nice. Heard he’s a bear to work for, but i don’t.

  • SallyT : There are a few cartoons this Sunday about Texas courting your businesses in Calif. Pretty funny.

  • AdLib : CL – That would be very interesting. I was disappointed in his run for Governor but I have liked his positions all along the way. Very cool that you’re working with him.

  • choicelady : I have recently gotten friendly with Phil Angelides. We’d worked together some years ago, but he’s helping me with another plan and project I have. Maybe I can ask him – or wade through his report on the causes of the financial collapse. He stuck it to the banks etc. in that investigation! He’s a good guy. Pro union by the way.

  • AdLib : CL – Exactly. One party gives assurances about a product they’re selling when they know those assurances are false, that’s fraud. It’s not complicated.

  • AdLib : Great stuff, Sally, I saw that and am so happy that we have Warren in there fighting for us!

  • choicelady : AdLib – yes, I think fraud is still a crime! EVEN at Goldman Sachs.

  • choicelady : Sally – she is absolutely correct. I do wonder how much regulators CAN do though. We need to understand the hogties they have on them. I’m not sure – since all I recall was the S&L people – that they can DO much more than tell the Treasury who’s doing what. If the laws were weakened after that, we may be in a situation where regulators are absolutely powerless to act. THAT worries me a LOT.

  • SallyT : Sounded pretty darn good to me!

  • AdLib : CL – No question that Goldman Sachs was guilty of fraud when they sold derivatives that they emailed to each other were crap yet they touted to investors as solid investments…an d proved the fraud by investing in a way that bet against the investment being solid.

  • SallyT : “There are district attorneys and US attorneys who are out there every day squeezing ordinary citizens on very thin grounds and taking them to trial in order to make an example,” she said. As for taking on banks, she added, “I’m really concerned ‘too big to fail’ has become ‘too big for trial.’ That just seems wrong to me.”

  • SallyT : “If a party is unwilling to go to trial — either because they’re too timid or they lack resources — the consequence is they have a lot less leverage,” Warren said. “If [banks] can break the law and drag in billions in profits and then turn around and settle paying out of those profits, they don’t have that much incentive to follow the law.”

  • AdLib : CL – I don’t know the answer to that but based on what we’ve seen, I would bet on your being right, that regulators have had their hands tied from pursuing and meaningful action against most crimes banks commit.

  • choicelady : AdLib – IF what they did was still a crime, I’m totally with you. I just remember hollering during the 90s as things that we had once forbidden were made legal and desirable! That’s what I don’t want missed – how much of the law the commandeered.

  • AdLib : Frankly, we NEED to see some execs and corporations prosecuted criminally for their crimes. This business of settling everything for money…which is always a fraction of the profits they made from their crime, is BS.

  • choicelady : AdLib – are bank regulators government folks? During the S&L disaster the regulators were utterly ignored by the S&L folks. The point one author made is that you sent in people making $27,000 a year (1980s) to investigate billionaires, and the outcome was NOT gonna be David and Goliath but Godzilla and the city. I’d like to know how much regulators are actually empowered to arrest bankers. Bet they’re NOT since that was part of deregulation.

  • AdLib : I liked that Warren was focused on when the last time was that they took a case against a bank to court. Her point being that if you let everyone off with a slap on the wrists, it’s not a disincentive. You have to hammer them in court some times just to put the fear in them that if they do something illegal, they might be in court over it.

  • SallyT : I think the point she was making, CL, is that we don’t know if it was legal or not since no one investigated.

  • AdLib : CL – Regulators, though where the line is between them and bankers is hard to tell.

  • choicelady : AdLib – did she grill bankers? I thought it was bank REGULATORS. Or both?

  • AdLib : Thanks CL! I need to ramp up the PPOV bumper sticker line!

  • choicelady : AdLib – good line: The GOP is not a party. They’re the mess AFTER the party. Excellent bumper sticker material.

  • AdLib : Sally – Yes and it was fantastic. Then today, after the grillings, the bank execs whined that she was too tough on their widdle selves. No one’s supposed to make them feel bad, it’s not fair!

  • choicelady : Sally – we shall see if he runs. If the Dems put up someone strong, he won’t. He can’t. He has NO core values or substance. AND he’s hugely NRA which today is toxic.

  • AdLib : CL – Also, I think Brown may want to pull a Romney and run for Gov of MA which does elect Repubs as Govs far more often than Repubs for Senate. Still, I can’t imagine people in MA wanting Brown as their Gov.

  • choicelady : Sally – saw a clip. Very good questions! One thing she knows but isn’t saying is that MOST of what got done, however morally and ethically corrupt, was NOT illegal. That’s the horror of it. While we were napping, they changed the laws. Her point though is that some IS illegal, and the bankers doing illegal things cannot be ‘too big to arrest’. Same point the Spanish courts are making about Bush!

  • SallyT : I thought the reason Brown isnt running is because he wants to run for Governor of Mass.

  • AdLib : Though Jindal said it for tactical reasons, his saying that they have to quit being the stupid party is actually so true. They look ignorant and belligerent, they accomplish nothing for the people of America and display spite for our democracy and system. They look so bad that if we had a non-gerrymandere d nation, they would be hugely in the minority right now. They look less like a party than the mess after a party.

  • SallyT : Did you see Elizabeth Warren grill the bank regulators today?

  • choicelady : AdLib – I always thought Brown was like W – lazy. After taking the shellacking from Warren, I KNEW he’d not run again. He has no substance, and he had to run – away. He’s fine when there’s no opposition. He caves when there is. Lazy.

  • AdLib : CL – I’m with you on that, Blue Dogs are fine with me if they give the Dems the majority. I do find it just desserts that McCain and the asses on the RW attacked Susan Rice because they wanted Kerry in as SoS so Brown could run in MA for Senate again…and then Brown refused to run. Now, if only we can get a couple of dozen House seats and take the House back!

  • choicelady : AdLib – that’s exactly right. What simply stuns me is how little they consider how bad the GOP look with EVERYTHING they do. There is not a sensible person to be seen.

  • AdLib : CL – I would have to say that a big part of why that strategy is failing in this case is that they don’t have anything that will stick against Obama. They had “death panels” earlier on, not to mention the birth certificate and other garbage like that but it didn’t break out from the RW loons. They look like fools because they try to blow up one scandal after another that just isn’t one. Like Benghazi, this is why they are clinging to it so desperately, they just can’t find anything that Americans think is bad to nail to Obama so when they get hysterical over such minutiae as they’re doing on Benghazi, they just look like old white men on a foolish witch hunt against the smarter, more capable black man.

  • choicelady : AdLib – the American public does not want what the GOP want. They want what Obama is offering. I think it will play out in 2014 as they look at who the Congressional and Senate obstructionists are. It is imperative the Dems have GOOD candidates. In MA there is Markey who is excellent and well know – they can’t even FIND a GOP candidate! I see even in some Red districts and states that common sense Dems are getting traction. I am NOT opposed to Blue Dogs if that’s what their constituency needs – I want the HOUSE and SENATE Blue!

  • SallyT : CL, that is obvious in the fact that the Democrat Presidents go on after they leave office to do good and maintain respect in the world. Not so much the Repubs. And, I would include Reagan in that since we can see how wonderful Thatcher is thought of now…..

  • choicelady : AdLib – but look how over those years, from 1980 til now, they have DECLINED in their ability to do actual harm when there is a Dem in the White House. They hurt Carter, wounded Clinton, left Obama unscathed. Marx wrote once that history repeats itself, the first time for tragedy, the second time for farce. That IS happening – they got too big for their knee pants and are ridiculously over-reaching.

  • AdLib : CL – I sure hope that can help tilt enough seats by 2014 to give the House back to the Dems and keep them holding the Senate.

  • AdLib : Cheers, Kes! You’re amazing!

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, I think there is so much racist hatred charged into the Repubs’ reactions to everything Obama wants or says. Though we have to remember that the Repubs always take the position that any Dem who is elected President is illegitimate and needs to be thwarted or removed. Look what they did to Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter (the Reagan camp’s secret deal with the Iranians to hold onto the hostages until after the election). Repubs believe that only they are the legitimate leaders of the US and any Dem that gets in is a travesty and must be removed or disarmed.

  • choicelady : AdLib – one way to overcome gerrymandering is to move more thoughtful independents and GOP to voting, however reluctantly, for Dems in Red districts. I think it’s happening. It will take time – but fortunately the GOP/Baggers cannot see themselves as buffoons so they keep inviting party shifts.

  • kesmarn : A quick but sincere thank you, AdLib. But I could never fill our b’ito’s shoes. Miss him so much! But we hafta keep that Twitter going for him. Your Rubio “Gone in Thirsty Seconds” quip was retweeted a bunch of times. G’night again.

  • SallyT : Twitter away, Kes, and thank you!

  • AdLib : CL – I think the GOP is, not surprisingly, motivated solely by fear right now and that’s why their decisions are so poor. They are petrified that they will be primaried by Baggers if they don’t act like lunatics…while their acting like lunatics is convincing more and more Americans to disapprove of them. A vicious cycle, it seems.

  • choicelady : oh kes – I did not realize you were handling Twitter. GREAT job, and thank you for carrying on for bito. Lovely tribute to him, great job by you.

  • SallyT : I worship corn you know, Kes, so you may go to bed and relax. I will watch for you around here this weekend or in the funnies.

  • choicelady : AdLib – they seem possessed of the belief that this president, a Black man, must toady to them or be deprived of every right of every previous president. They honestly cannot believe he is in charge AND has the authority of his office.

  • AdLib : Night Kes, get some rest and BTW, you are doing a fantastic job on our Twitter account! A wonderful tribute to Bito! Sleep well!

  • kesmarn : But Sally, it’s past my bedtime here in corn country! You west coasters still have hours of party time ahead of you! Thanks for asking, though…

  • choicelady : ‘Night kes – sweet dreams!

  • AdLib : Someone on MSNBC said today, the reason they’re attacking Hagel is because his view of foreign policy matches Pres. Obama’s. And? What, is Obama supposed to hire a cabinet that opposes him? Or that only supports his opponents’ views? Since when has a President not been able to pick a qualified candidate because their views are similar? The truth here, that this is petty personal politics is inescapable.

  • SallyT : Kes, I think you should stay.

  • choicelady : AdLib – it shocks me, given the public reaction against the filibuster and these idiots that they KEEP doing these things. To whom are they playing? Sally – I agree that Lindsey is toast – and he can’t seem to see it. Either they are politically the stupidest people ever, or there’s someone or some group to which they are pandering. It’s NOT the voters.

  • kesmarn : I should probably call it a day/night as well. This has been even more fun than usual, kids. Have a wonderful weekend.

  • funksands : Thanks all of you!!

  • SallyT : Hey, Funkie, enjoy the weekend and see you later.

  • choicelady : Have a good weekend, funk. Good luck with the school! See you when you can get back.

  • kesmarn : Relax like a sloth, funk, and then go in there and bite that school board like a honey badger.

  • AdLib : Funk, thanks for dropping off that bucket of sloths! Good luck with school board and have a great holiday weekend!

  • kesmarn : It amazes me that basically all Hagel did “wrong” was to point out Dubya’s faults, object to the Iraq war, and call out the Israeli lobby.

  • funksands : Unfortunately folks, my time has flown. Have a wonderful, safe, healthy, slothful weekend!! [smiley]

  • AdLib : McCain said on Fox news that basically, the filibuster is all about how Hagel acted like a…maverick…a s a Repub Senator and they’re just punishing him for that. So, he said straight up that this s all about an infantile McCain and GOP getting even. Jesus, how low have they gone and isn’t it obvious?

  • choicelady : funk – that video is wonderful! They’re adorable! I understand they sleep like 22 hours a day. My life goal.

  • SallyT : Lindsey thinks this will help him fight off a TBagger challenge but I think it will only do the opposite. I think he is toast.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Oh there’d be howling for sure. But there are ways to SAY OMG this is awful, how can you – and do nothing. I would imagine they’d be released back to the US, but the threat alone is working wonderfully. George apparently is under bathtub arrest…

  • funksands : Ad, I think they are just stalling, taking up all of the limited legislation time they can. He’ll be confirmed, but only after wasting another ten days.

  • kesmarn : The consensus on the PBS panels tonight was that they’re going to lose and they’re going to look very bad in the process.

  • SallyT : It is going to look even more so when they come back after va K and vote him in anyway.

  • AdLib : SO what do you think about the Repubs filibustering the Hagel nom? Is this not an eventual loss they are trying to reframe as a win for them?

  • SallyT : I don’t know AdLib, there are a lot of people here that think they should have been.

  • kesmarn : The funkie version of “Squirrel!!”

  • funksands : Sorry about that, I was just overloaded by cute for a moment…won’t happen again.

  • kesmarn : A sloth rescue! It might take a while…

  • AdLib : CL – I would hope you were right but we’ve seen how the MSM can get behind ultra-patriotism when the GOP howls about it.

  • funksands : Sally, we should just cage him and force him to do tricks. Good idea.

  • funksands : O…M…G… Buckets of Sloths!! «link»

  • choicelady : funk – it makes you look fat. Just saying that as a friend, you know…

  • SallyT : The crowd of seals, Funk.

  • kesmarn : By Cheney’s definition, funk, it’s no worse than a frat initiation. How evil could that be?

  • SallyT : I can see Bushie trying to balance a ball on his nose, Funkie, trying to fit in the crowd and not be noticed.

  • AdLib : There’s an interesting movie idea: A former US President who tortured Muslims is kidnapped by Muslims and held for ransom, at risk of being tortured himself. Anyone got $80 million around the house?

  • choicelady : AdLib – I’m not so sure people would rally around Bush or esp. Cheney. The GOP would want to nuke Spain or the Hague, but others? Not sure at all they’d care. Not even for the precedent.

  • funksands : I would love to waterboard Cheney. Just for a few seconds. Does that make me evil?….or look fat?

  • funksands : Or even a S.E.A.L. team rescue. A seal team rescue would actually be pretty damn cool.

  • choicelady : funk – no, I don’t think so! Sally – they’ve not left the US at all in over four years.

  • kesmarn : More likely some enhanced interrogation, funk, followed by some rendering.

  • AdLib : CL – It will never happen but if a former POTUS was put on trial in another country, I hate to say it but there would be a rallying of forces here, not just Repubs, who would want the US to stop it, at least out of precedent’s sake.

  • SallyT : I think that Bush had to cancel a speech in Canada, too.

  • funksands : Somehow I doubt there will be a Seal team rescue of W from prison

  • choicelady : Sally – Sweden would have turned Bush over to Spain so fast Georgie’s head would have spun! Bush and Cheney can’t go anywhere. At all. Ever. Safely.

  • kesmarn : True dat, AdLib.

  • choicelady : AdLib – there has been no pressure from this WH to protect Bush and Cheney from the Spanish court indictment. Two Republican Senators tried – in violation of the Logan Act – and got nowhere. From the WH? Not a peep.

  • SallyT : Was it Sweden that Bush had to cancel, too?

  • funksands : The biggest problem in the courts is the shortage of judges on the federal level and the shortage of funding on the state level.

  • AdLib : Kes – When was Bush not in his “Bozo Period”?

  • kesmarn : Sally, the third picture is a yawner. An inept landscape of buildings with crosses on top of them.

  • AdLib : CL — The US would put too much pressure on Spain to prevent them but wouldn’t that be sweet, to have Bush and/or Cheney held responsible by a court for their criminal acts?

  • choicelady : AdLib – I see some strengthening of the judiciary and some weaknesses, esp. when the judges were Bush appointees. But I have hopes for some improvement. ALL the courts where the final act of appeal on the Bush Doctrine overturned that phony set of justifications for all manner of crimes the Bush regime committed. Obama never appealed to SCOTUS where it was possible the conservatives MIGHT have overturned the appeals and reinstated the doctrines. So the Bush doctrine is dead. Sad that with the drone issue no one knows that – or pays attention to what Obama is doing very differently from Bush.

  • SallyT : For certain his drinking days, the red nose gives it away.

  • kesmarn : ahhh…I believe that was his “Bozo period” if I’m not mistaken…

  • funksands : Ad: [smiley]

  • AdLib : This Bush self portrait does have a remarkable insight though: «link»

  • kesmarn : I always had the same feeling about that Plame outing, AdLib. That was criminal. And that Chicago columnist who printed it– forgot his name — should have been prosecuted too. He’s dead now.

  • funksands : They still have the Frontline special “Bush’s War” on file on that site and I believe Netflix. 3 part 6 hour examination of the whole fiasco. I’ve watched it several times because I don’t want to forget or stop being mad.

  • SallyT : AdLib, Rove should have been arrested for that too!

  • choicelady : Sally – that possibility is even more weird. I don’t want to know that much about George. Not even close.

  • kesmarn : Remember how Dubya gave speech after speech about those alleged WMDs and the “imminent threat”? Drumming up support for that phony war. And our poor young men and women picked up the tab.

  • SallyT : Supposely there were three pictures but I haven’t seen anywhere the third one. I am afraid that is the one where he let the water out of the tub…….

  • choicelady : AdLib and kes – the Spanish courts aren’t fooling around.In Madrid at the gallery with “Guernica” we saw other drawings of the torture under the Phalange during the Civil War. It was stomach churning. They do NOT forget that. It is a very powerful memory for Spain. They will not let anyone do what Franco did to anyone.

  • AdLib : Cheney should have been arrested for the Plame outing. Remember how they dodged and refused to provide docs and testimony? Then they had terms for providing it saying it couldn’t be under oath, recorded or written down? Our poor justice system has taken a real beating when that kind of BS can happen.

  • funksands : Ad, maybe we’ll luck out and they’ll have to live out their remaining years in one of Sheldon Adelson’s Macao casinos.

  • SallyT : CL, I think he leaked them himself!

  • funksands : Someone already probably brought this up, but Maddow is putting together an Iraq War documentary airing Monday night that goes back and re-examines how we got into that mess. Partly because of the internal defense leaks about Syria having WMD’s. I’m anxious to watch.

  • choicelady : Sally – icky stuff from our Georgie Porgie.

  • kesmarn : My money’s on Rover every time.

  • choicelady : Sally, AdLib – those paintings are waaay too much information. Eeeuuuww.

  • AdLib : I hear there’s a Bush painting we haven’t seen yet of Bush playing poker with a bunch of dogs…and losing.

  • kesmarn : It isn’t quite as satisfying as house arrest for the two of them. But it’s close.

  • AdLib : I seem to remember Cheney’s lawyers contacting Spain or another foreign country for assurance that if he left the country, he wouldn’t be arrested and the response was not what they wanted to hear so Cheney cancelled his trip.

  • SallyT : Cl here are the pictures in this article but this isn’t the one I posted. «link»

  • funksands : The one in the shower is weird. He’s just standing off to the side of the water staring at the wall. Creepy

  • kesmarn : I compared the paintings to MacBeth. “Out damned spot.” Turns out the critic for the LA Times said the same thing!

  • AdLib : Here’s a link to an article with the Bush paintings…look s like he’s spending a little too much time alone in the bathroom: «link»

  • kesmarn : I still remember that vid of Dubya going around a room — “looking for WMD” — under pillow and behind chairs. He thought it was hilarious. Sick.

  • choicelady : Sally – I will go to OT and take a look.

  • SallyT : And, there is an article where some experts give opinions on the pictures he did and hidden meanings. Very Interesting.

  • choicelady : funk – if either of those two is fool enough to go overseas or even to Canada, they’re toast. They’d go first to Madrid I think – then the International Criminal Court might take up the case from there as they did with Pinochet. Would be very cool.

  • funksands : I bet we could get funding and volunteer help for THAT project

  • SallyT : There is a link to the picture that I put on in Off Topic. kes, saw them. They were watercolors.

  • choicelady : funk – GREAT idea for a monument.

  • funksands : Choice, I’d love to see W and Dick perp-walked to the Hauge.

  • kesmarn : I saw the paintings. They are exceptionally weird.

  • choicelady : Sally – can hardly wait for the cartoons! I’d not heard that about the hacking!

  • funksands : Sally, were they drawn in crayon and finger paint?

  • kesmarn : Dark ,yet brilliant, funk. And true!

  • choicelady : AdLib – oh good – I’m actually GLAD it’s in public that the Obamas are under siege! I’ve not read anything, only heard it from a friend of a Secret Service agent. VERY worrisome and awful!

  • SallyT : CL, W had sent the pictures to his sister in an email.

  • funksands : Kes, my proposed mid-life crisis involves erecting a monument to W made out of the worn-out prosthetics of Iraq War veterans. To be opened at his death.

  • kesmarn : Oh funk, I feel for you. Parenting. Not for the faint of heart.

  • choicelady : funk and all – Some years back in 2009 I think, the Spanish courts indicted Bush and Cheney for crimes against humanity. They neither of them can leave the US for they WILL be arrested and held for trial. No nation has ever prosecuted its own – but when outside courts do this, it’s powerful. Remember Pinochet and others. They were fools to travel – and they did get arrested. So think of W on the ranch as being under ‘house arrest’. Because it’s true.

  • funksands : Kes, they have actually been bending over backwards to be accomodating, but the new superintendent is mandating all private placement kids be brought back in district. We have 3-4 advocates at each meeting, but its still incredibly stressful

  • kesmarn : That whole salvation thing might not be as sewed up as Dubya thinks it is.

  • SallyT : You will see a cartoon in the Sunday Funnies, CL, that relates to that. Apparently someone hacked into W’s email and he had sent pictures of himself that he had painted. One of him in the shower and one in the tub. No frontal nudity was shown, thank goodness!

  • AdLib : CL – Right, sorry about that, you had mentioned it but I had also seen it mentioned in an article too, about Obama no longer wanting to know the details about the daily threats made about him. I don’t worry about Obama as much now because after keeping him safe the last 4 years, I think the SS is pretty sharp and prepared.

  • funksands : All a man needs at a ranch is brush to cut and evil deeds to reflect on during his night terrors.

  • kesmarn : Hope things work out with the school board, funk. Why is it so hard for them to listen to parents? Don’t our tax dollars pay for everything?

  • SallyT : Laura was a Democrat before she married him and I think she still is one.

  • choicelady : Sally – missed that reference to W. What’s going on there?

  • choicelady : funk – maybe, but is he allowed to chain drink in Houston?

  • SallyT : CL, W is painting a lot of himself these days. In the shower and in the tub.

  • choicelady : funk – here is where The Arc may be useful to you? If they’re good as they are here (bragging since the lobbyist is my husband) they can cut through a LOT of red tape.

  • funksands : Choice, maybe she’s not allowed to chain-smoke at the ranch.

  • choicelady : AdLib – just to spread MORE rumors, I hear that W is living on the ranch, and Laura at their house in Houston. Says a lot.

  • funksands : Hi Ad

  • AdLib : Hey Funk!

  • funksands : We are okay. Battling with the school district over placement of my oldest. Aging us prematurely.

  • AdLib : Kes – It’s like a black tragicomedy, the whole Bush Presidency. That bumbling, moronic man-child with the reigns of power of America in his hands…it’s almost as absurd to have imagined as having an actor who co-starred with a monkey as President.

  • choicelady : funk! Welcome! How are you and the family?

  • funksands : I think we’ll all find the last two and next two years to be some of the darkest in history for our Congress. Four years of nothing but time on their hands gives rise to a lot of mischief, both verbal and real.

  • choicelady : AdLib – now I see where rumors start. *I* told you the story about the Obamas not hearing the details from Secret Service. It happens to be TRUE, but it made me laugh to see it ‘come back’. Seriously though, remember under Clinton, and quadruple that at least now. Clinton caved. Obama is NOT. That exhilarates most people and infuriates the extremists. I do fear the outcome – for the Obamas, for the nation.

  • AdLib : glenn, good choice, you won’t be sorry! Unless you were getting two sets of presents for when you were born and when you were born again. Have a great holiday weekend!

  • kesmarn : Good lord, c’lady! They never quit, do they. Hagel must be wondering why he was ever a Repub right about now.

  • funksands : Not bad Kes, not bad t’all

  • choicelady : kes – did you see Rachel tonight? She noted that there’s a TOTALLY unsubstantiated rumor Hagel took money from “Friends of Hamas”. Not a shred of evidence such a group exists. And Rand told a RW radio guy “he was deeply worried” about that and “looking into it”. Yeah – he will find it right there next to Orly.

  • kesmarn : funkie! How are ya?

  • funksands : Hello!!

  • kesmarn : Same old same old, then. Glad I missed it.

  • AdLib : CL – I fear you may be right, the more they feel cornered, the more possible it may be for RW extremists to act out and commit a horrible act. And it could become a vicious circle, as such attacks leave the RW more and more isolated and in the minority, the more desperate they may become. This is why the Obama Admin has been doing a very good job tailing the hate groups in the country. Obama gets so many death threats each day, he’s told the SS not to bother telling him about them anymore. They know what kinds of hateful crazies are out there and I think they are working hard at protecting Obama and America from them.

  • choicelady : kes dear – It was Rand. EVERYTHING was cringe worthy!

  • kesmarn : I totally missed Rand Paul’s rant after the SOTU. Did he say anything cringe-worthy?

  • choicelady : Sally – all is well. Neither bing nor google are crawlin’

  • SallyT : Don’t worry, CL, I only share with true friends!

  • kesmarn : G’night, glenn. See you tomorrow.

  • AdLib : glenn – The extremists aren’t goin g anywhere…excep t possibly to a 3rd party if the GOP Elite keep doing things like Rove is, trying to block their candidates and force them to vote for corporate GOPers like Romney instead. I don’t see moderates winning back the GOP because the Dems already offer more and better of what moderates want than Repubs could.

  • choicelady : Shhh Sally – don’t give us away!

  • SallyT : Goodnight, Glenn, rest well and see you around here later!

  • kesmarn : Not to mention bacon, Sally.

  • glenn : Kes–I’ll try to keep the “secret”. CL–you’re right–you all ROCK! See you all tomorrow and Sunday.

  • SallyT : And, Glenn, we have better booze and drugs!

  • kesmarn : AdLib, I couldn’t begin to imagine the Prez ever doing anything like the shoulder rub episode. He respects other humans. Even ones who don’t always respect him.

  • choicelady : kes is right – God does love us here! Have a good rest, and we’ll see you soon!

  • choicelady : glenn – delighted you’re staying. Being born once seems good to us. You are more than welcome here among those of us who are enlightened, spiritual, truth oriented. We ROCK!

  • kesmarn : Yay! Stay with us, glenn. Don’t tell anyone on the right, but God actually does love us here.

  • AdLib : Kes – The leader of an important nation, because she was a woman, was no different to Bush than his secretary. She had no right to her own body or personal space and she did sound so tense in the meeting when she was talking about things Bush didn’t understand anyway. So what do you do to stressed out “chicks”, give them a condescending shoulder rub. Holy mackerel, think how far we are from such moronic behavior right now!

  • SallyT : Right, Kes, a lot of them didn’t show their true colors until they got control of the office. And, some moved too fast once they did like Walker.

  • choicelady : glenn – sorry, the Second Amendment Remedies are very scary.

  • glenn : Okay, folks, time to call it a night. CL–I’ve made up my mind. Think I’ll stay with you guys. I think that “born again” think is waaaay over-rated.

  • choicelady : glenn – yes. The

  • choicelady : AdLib – NO one would talk to this woman. All the officials were white. She probably could have gone to NAACP or something, but she didn’t know them out in her rural area. She never got any of it at all. Her kids and grandkids helped her, and she was OK – but she was cheated out of her rights to the end of her life.

  • kesmarn : Kasich did that in Ohio, Sally. A stealth extremist.

  • SallyT : Or ones that will keep their true opinions and desires to themselves until they get elected. Then they can attack!

  • glenn : Kes–shows how extreme the r/tp’s have become if rove is seen as the “moderate”.

  • kesmarn : Hah! “Fine tune the message” c’lady? Good luck with that one, Mr. Rove.

  • choicelady : kes – I don’t think Rove is trying to weed out extremistst but find ones with more finesse.

  • AdLib : CL – That is horrible! Did she go through another office to finally get her SS?

  • glenn : CL–That worries me, too. Especially with all this talk lately of the “government taking away our guns.”

  • kesmarn : Rove is supposedly trying to weed out extremist candidates, but if he’s the model for moderation I think they’re still in huge trouble.

  • choicelady : AdLib – what scares the bejeezus out of me is that as the GOP declines, the rise of the extremists increases and intensifies. I am seriously concerned that we will see another McVeigh, OK City. People forget the guy who crashed into our state capitol building? We were there – it was horrible. He burned to death in his truck trying to take out the legislature. He had supremacist ties that were downplayed. There is more of that stuff than we’d be allowed to know.

  • AdLib : glenn – I’m all for a diverse party system, I think a 3rd party could be a good thing too but when one party becomes hollowed out by corporations and turned into a sock puppet, it is not a legit party representing Americans and deserving support, it is a Plutocratic, anti-democratic entity and should be eschewed.

  • glenn : AdLib–Hope you’re right. The scary part of that is, do you think moderates will take the place of the extremists, once the extremists self-destruct?

  • kesmarn : Apparently that’s largely what this whole Hagel thing is all about. Repubs like Miss Lindsey trying to send the signal to the extremists that they’re re-electable because they’re oh-so-tough.

  • AdLib : Cl – I do truly believe that the Repubs can’t help but accelerate their decline now.Having purged most of the moderates and losing national elections, they grow more dependent on turnout of the remaining members of their party, most of the activist ones being extremists. Their power will continue to grow, the Repub politician’s fear of being primaried by not being extreme enough will grow and the party will continue nosediving in popularity as it chases the extremists they need to be re-elected. This is a snake eating its own tail and soon, there won’t be much left of it.

  • choicelady : I know, Sally. I know.

  • glenn : CL–What a sad story. I’m sure variations of whites taking advantage of poor, black people still abound. Voter ID laws come to mind.

  • SallyT : That is bull, CL, my father farmed all his life and got subsidies and he got SS and Medicare.

  • choicelady : Murph – yes, I did know that about the ‘flight’ of Bush. All hype, no substance. Probably not even the codpiece.

  • kesmarn : I remember the Merkel shoulder rub, AdLib. He couldn’t even be bother to grant people their own personal space — or remember their names properly.

  • glenn : Sally–you certainly have hit the nail on the head with your analysis of reality t.v. It just gets worse and worse!

  • choicelady : AdLib -true story. Black woman, grandmother of a good friend, farmed all her life and raised 10 kids, not all her own. She paid taxes, did her duty, and when, at the end of her days, she went to collect Social Security in her South Carolina area, the white people there told her that because she had once taken a government farm subsidy to not grow something, she could not get Social Security or Medicare. She had nowhere to appeal. THAT was in the 1980s. THAT is white supremacy run amok.

  • SallyT : I have to disagree with you, these people love reality TV the most because it shows people in the worst light and that is how they are so that must mean they are living right.

  • kesmarn : I didn’t know that Murph! Although at the time I had serious doubts that he could have pulled off that landing. Or even would have been allowed to try!

  • AdLib : Kes – It’s a minor thing but remember Bush trying to give Merkel a back rub at a conference and how she sat up sharply, upset? That was everything Bush was, a disinterested, spoiled, oblivious frat boy who had no clue what was really going on around him.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and Kes…you know that when Bush “landed” on the carrier deck, he was in the 2nd seat and his controls were all disconnected…f urther the entire ship had to be turned around because prevailing winds made it necessary that they land with the the CA coastline clearly visible in the background. So they moved the boat. Talk about pride.

  • choicelady : kes – Hollywood Libruls don’t tend to make ‘shoot em up’ films.

  • glenn : AdLib–I go from hope because of the results of the last election to confusion because of the way the r/tp’s STILL continue to behave. I really don’t think a one-party system is good for the country, but I just cannot bring myself to have any respect for anyone who would vote republican/tp.

  • AdLib : CL – So true, that is the whole Repub appeal. “White America, you deserve high paying jobs, SS, Medicare and tax cuts but everyone else wants it too and they don’t deserve it like you do!”

  • choicelady : AdLib – and Murph if you’re around – the GOP has gone SO far that Murph saw the Lysistrata Ladies come over to Claire’s side. Lincoln was right – you can fool all the people some of the time, and some all the time but never all the people all of the time. They’ve gone TOO FAR, and people are walking away.

  • kesmarn : Yes, and then they’ll denounce “Hollywood Libruls” in the same breath. When it’s theater that keeps them going.

  • choicelady : kes – we saw all we needed when he landed on the aircraft carrier and emerged from the plane with his flight suit codpiece bulging. Theater and faux manliness. Image is reality. Why do they love actors so much? Theater over reality any day of the week.

  • kesmarn : That does not surprise me, glenn. Hafta give them props on their ability to manipulate the gullible.

  • AdLib : CL – The reason the Repubs have the airhead frat boys as their candidates is that they are the best vehicle for their message and demographics. They are all about simplicity, anti-intellectua lism and distilling all the complex issues down to a simple, “Obamacare will have Death Panels!” Sometimes, enough indie voters are sucked into the simplistic BS and Repubs win the WH but it just seems to me that we’ve seen it so many times now, enough of the public recognizes the game and isn’t fooled by it.

  • SallyT : And, that is why they are against education because they need to keep them dumb and the only further education that they can get is on FOX News.

  • glenn : Kes–saw an article somewhere where the r/tp’s actually do “focus groups” to find out which words/phrases actually push those buttons the best.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, that’s it. And to arrogantly say to the whole Middle East: “Bring it!!” Just an overgrown kid.

  • choicelady : glenn – the GOP have produced ‘the politics of me’ as their secret weapon. What *I* do is fine. What YOU do is crap. I got robbed. YOU were lazy. *I* deserve these things – you are a ‘taker’. Politics of me.

  • kesmarn : ‘Zactly, Adlib. There are powers-that-be who know just how to push every subliminal button out there.

  • choicelady : kes – that is EXACTLY how we all saw him. Spoiled frat boy. Remember at the end when he was overseas with Tony Blair, slouching in a chair, talking with Blair and chewing with his mouth open? He’d given up all pretenses and reverted to type.

  • glenn : CL–I agree 100%–that’s what I don’t get. How can you vote for someone who tells you to take “personal responsibility” for you life, and at the same time, blames the “lazy …” for the fact that your life is shit?

  • AdLib : Kes – Thanks for the studies, I truly think they are very important in understanding what’s going on in our country now. We have a corporately funded propaganda machine that knows this all to well and uses its political party to manipulate those fearful people out there into voting against their own interests to benefit only the top 1%. There’s a bigger game going on here, people need to zoom out and see the whole game board.

  • kesmarn : Dubya was the consummate frat boy. And we’re still paying for his 8 year party.

  • SallyT : AdLib, those people you describe need someone to hold beneath them because they don’t want to admit or be seen as they are, the true bottom of the pit!

  • choicelady : ADLIb – that’s my friend’s son. Threw away EVERY advantage. Wants someone to blame.

  • kesmarn : And of course, there are plenty of “vested interests” who encourage that feeling of resentment. So much easier to plunder the economy when the “rabble” are fighting ‘mongst themselves.

  • choicelady : all – I keep reflecting on the ‘spoiled frat boy’ aspects of the GOP. First noticed with Dan Quayle, downhill and increasing in size from there. What IS it about these child men in power? I don’t see many Dems that bubble-headed. What’s the attraction to them by voters? I get their attraction to power, not voters’ attraction to them.

  • AdLib : CL – But to those who have very little, poor education, poor prospects, little to make them feel like they are worthy, the concept of having pride in yourself because of your “superior” skin color is very appealing. And being able to blame those who aren’t white for your life being a failure is so attractive, who wants to accept they or their parents screwed up their lives when they can instead blame the evil minorities who just steal everything?

  • kesmarn : I’m fascinated by brain stuff.

  • choicelady : kes – you’re a gold mine! Thanks!

  • glenn : CL–Well, it definitely couldn’t make him any worse!

  • kesmarn : One more brain study, then I’ll quit: «link»

  • choicelady : glenn – I’d be on the side of the Prozac in the sippy cup.

  • glenn : CL–good one!

  • choicelady : kes – how very cool! Thank you!

  • choicelady : My fave depiction of the RW: “Oh my – washed my brains this morning and can’t do a THING with them!”

  • glenn : AdLib–given rubio’s delivery, I would say that someone already did put Prozac into his sippy cup.

  • kesmarn : Couldn’t hurt. Might help.

  • AdLib : Hey, what if we could put Prozac into Marco Rubio’s sippy cups?

  • kesmarn : Here’s just one study (turns out there are a number) from Berkeley: «link»

  • choicelady : AdLib – I have a friend whose younger son is a drop out and can’t keep a job. He is toying with white supremacy. My comment to him is that skin has ONE function – to keep your guts from falling on the ground. Being white skinned is not a shred of evidence of superiority, and his failure to launch is proof of that. He’s nice enough still to be embarrassed.

  • AdLib : Hmm…maybe if we spiked the water of Repub communities with Prozac…they’d quit being so paranoid and fearful and start voting Dem?

  • glenn : CL–Interesting idea on the brain scans. Could you imagine the right’s response to that one? I can just hear them…”Now those loony libs want to see into our brains.” Or “now they want to brainwash us.” It would be hilarious to hear their reactions!

  • choicelady : kes – how awesome. I will hunt them out. That’s pretty amazing.

  • AdLib : glenn – Right, what I’m saying is that these people who don’t do anything and have no direct connection to making a positive difference in our country and society harbor under the delusion that just because they’re white, they are part of the group that “built this country”. As you say, for a party that loves Ayn Rand and individualism, believing that they as individuals are “better” because they are white and they have inherited the honor of those who did build this country, is as offensive as it is moronic.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, I think there have been scientific studies that did just that and apparently there are real differences!

  • choicelady : glenn – Their “New Raw Deal” : We have nothing left but fear itself”!

  • kesmarn : What must it feel like to be trapped in a “hunker in the bunker” mentality 24/7? Awful.

  • glenn : CL–Of course it’s a delusion–that’ s all they’ve got left. Well, that and fear.

  • choicelady : kes – wouldn’t it be interesting to have brain scans for each of our communities to SEE if there are actual brain differences?

  • glenn : AdLib–I know, I’ve seen those studies, too. It’s becoming more and more obvious that the repubs fear everything! Even things they used to believe in.

  • choicelady : glenn – rugged individualists on the frontier tended to live to age 30. Period. If that long. Women fared worse in childbirth if there were no other women around. It’s a mad, mad delusion.

  • choicelady : AdLib – maybe that man DID contribute before he got that way, but everyone only built a part. And we ALL built it together. The Chinese saved the lives of Anglos on the RR. The Anglos were dying of parasites in the water, but the Chinese BOILED water for cooking and tea. They showed the Anglos how – the Anglos stopped dying.

  • kesmarn : Bigger amygdalas I think, for conservatives. And that ain’t a good thing. That’s the “fear zone.”

  • glenn : AdLib–they are speaking in the “collective” we–as in their forefathers–and , once again, don’t understand the irony of the “collective” we being spoken to brag about their “rugged individualism”.

  • AdLib : glenn – There have been studies that do state that there is a difference between the minds of the average Dem and Repub and one of the biggest factors is the Repubs more pronounced response to fear.

  • kesmarn : Good point, AdLib. Like Limbaugh talking about how hard he works.

  • choicelady : Sally – I have to say that I was raised by good teachers who told us what we all owe to indigenous people. They made a HUGE point out of the wisdom and kindness of the Wampanoag and Narragansett. So I always knew that story from first grade on. It shaped who I am understanding how lucky the Pilgrims were.

  • AdLib : What I never understood is how an obese, living-on-disibi lity, poorly educated, angry white man in America can use the word “we” in the sentence, “We built this country.” Really? What the hell did you do? What bridge or building did you build? What system of democracy did you put in place?

  • kesmarn : A fascinating period of history, c’lady.

  • glenn : Kes–that’s interesting about Perry’s troops. I didn’t know that, either.

  • SallyT : Isn’t that funny, CL, these idiots don’t even know the real reason we celebrate Thanksgiving. Yes, the whites made it to winter but not without the Natives showing them how to plant in the earth here and understand the climate and, yes, feed them so they didn’t starve.

  • choicelady : kes – I never knew that about Perry! Wow!

  • choicelady : Sally – I am also descended from Mayflower people. Early Pilgrims were very kind in their interactions with first nations people. Later settlers, some Puritans, many not, were NOT. But the real problems began with the Victorian possessive individualism that saw everything for the taking by ‘the biggest bully on the block’. That’s what the GOP admire and what they wish to restore.

  • kesmarn : Went to a local history lecture a little while ago — about the War of 1812– learned that about 1/4 of Commodore Perry’s troops were black. I never knew that. They helped build this part of the country alright!

  • glenn : AdLib–I’m beginning to believe it’s true that conservative brains are different from liberal ones. I think it’s wonderful to learn about different people, how they live, what their culture is, whether or not I agree with it; I can still learn something. It doesn’t make them “bad” or me “good”–it just makes us different.

  • choicelady : Sally – hello and TELL IT, girlfriend! I had one descendant of the Mayflower folks tell me that native people’s were inferior, so tough. BS – we nearly destroyed this nation by our rapacious exploitation of it and indigenous people. Only now are we seeing the wisdome of the First Nations over the land and life. Hope it’s not too late.

  • AdLib : Hey Sally!

  • kesmarn : It seems hatred is always rooted in fear. And apparently there are some mighty terrified folks out there.

  • glenn : Kes–It’s disturbing if it’s only one. It’s also sad how hatred has gotten such a hold in our country.

  • AdLib : glenn – It’s sad that such blatant racism can be voiced as if it was a fact. Those who are part of the White People Scared of the Rise of Minorities will continue to become more vocal and desperate as the see their fantasy of white supremacy become more and more torn to pieces.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Sally!

  • choicelady : Murph – I really have never gotten over Thomas’ sneering disregard for his sister whom he PUBLICLY condemned. But has he helped her or her sons? The private help HE got from his grandparents? NO! He used affirmative action and disowned it, too. He has no principles or policies other than “if it’s for me, fine. If it’s for you – go away.”

  • kesmarn : I’m sure it’s a fraction of the people in that area, glenn, but it was disturbing.

  • SallyT : Ah, Glenn, I think this country was already here and built by the Native Americans and the White People raped it!

  • glenn : Kes–that school where President Obama visited is quite close to where I live. I’ve been trying to keep up with the news here in GA, but missed that one. I can’t believe people can even think that in the 21st century!

  • choicelady : glenn – that ‘whites built the nation’ meme started with Pat Buchanan. It is what caused Rachel Maddow, who’d had a nice relationship with him, to split from him. She was aghast and did a 7 minute discussion on the role of communities of color in building America.

  • kesmarn : Some people have really given in to hatred, glenn. I saw a story today that there were demonstrators outside a school in Georgia where the Prez spoke who had the gall to shout out the “n” word at him and yell “Go back to Kenya.”

  • glenn : AdLib–Actually saw one post that said “White people built this country.” No mention of the slaves who built the wealth for the south, no mention of the Chinese who built the railroads, no mention of any minorites–just white people. Where did these people go to school?

  • AdLib : glenn – But as the last two Presidential election years have proven, and those years represent more of the majority of Americans, the Repubs are playing only to a shrinking minority. Yes, they may infest blogs everywhere, paid to do so or not, but their numbers are actually much smaller than ours.

  • choicelady : glenn – people are unwilling to admit what’s happening.What shocks me is how the left blogs are willing to destroy Obama and the progress we are making. They refuse to think he’s done one single thing well. Just got the single payer advocates’ hate of the health reform – and every single thing they sent out about ACA was 100% WRONG. They are NOT doing their due diligence because ACA would undermine their black/white polemics.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL very interesting insights re. Clarence Thomas. I must follow up on that.

  • kesmarn : Thomas is truly a detestable human being, c’lady. A disgrace.

  • glenn : AdLib–I hope we are looking at the gop as a permanent minority party, but I see people on other blogs just digging in their heels. The more stupid the gop becomes, the more they defend them.

  • AdLib : The GOP sensibility really boils down to, “Minorities are taking away what us white people deserve.” It is surreal to see Rubio trying to straddle the line on that, praising the entitlements that he got as a minority then in essence saying, “We’ve had enough of minorities being ‘takers’.” It just seems that Repubs don’t understand or recognize irony or hypocrisy.

  • choicelady : kes – we first saw the ‘pull up the ladder’ with Clarence Thomas. He got help from his grandparents, left his sister to take care of their parents. She never got an education, and instead of helping her and HER kids, he bashed her for taking welfare. He is truly evil in throwing HIS family under the bus even though he got help. The pre-New Deal days, if you got ahead it was by one generation reaching back and pulling up the next one. He and Rubio are violating even their OWN ideas of experience.

  • kesmarn : One of those PBS round table groups tonight agreed almost unanimously that the GOP is overplaying its hand and is going to look very bad to the American public (or rather — even worse) if they don’t knock it off.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…the style thing is very much a marker of the contemporary GOP…it is is the underlying idea behind recrafting their message without having to change it.

  • glenn : Murph–I know, I guess PODS (President Obama Derangement Syndrome) makes some folks not able to logically follow an argument, or make one, for that matter.

  • choicelady : kes. I think Reid is wrong. No better than Junior High, period.

  • kesmarn : Right Murph. Literally “pull the ladder up behind you” mentality.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, Reid — I must say — did nail it when it compared them to high school kids.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : kes…and he was SO please to have access to student loans and grants as well..talk about having an entitlement mentality.

  • choicelady : Murph – boffo insight into Rubio the Dude with No Future. The GOP think style is everything, substance irrelvant. They’re discovering it’s not so.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn….the message was given in GOPSpeak which means that its followers went “yeah, that makes sense” while folks like you and mean say “what the hell!”

  • AdLib : When you look at how the Repubs are behaving in Congress, how their “stars” are loons and losers and how desperate they are, might we truly be witnessing the long term shriveling up of the GOP into a permanent national minority party? I hate that they won so many state seats in 2010 and were able to gerrymander their way into retaining the House but by 2020, if Dems continue their momentum (under a President Hillary Clinton?) in state elections, might that not have the possibility of being the end of the Repubs as a majority for decades?

  • choicelady : glenn – Cain would not say that unless there were millions of dollars at stake. He’s an English language purist. Too bad he can’t speak it himself.

  • kesmarn : Murph, I saw that– where he praised govt help. But only for HIS family.

  • glenn : Murph–rubio praised Medicare and student loans in front of everyone Tuesday night, and then proceeded to say, “I got mine, my mother got hers, so f..k the rest of you.”

  • choicelady : glenn – try the English words Drought, pneumonia, etc. Same principle. Nothing in language makes sense. Properly said, the H in Spanish is a tiny breath, but Americans have trouble with the subtlety, so it’s best left ought. : )

  • kesmarn : Just to annoy Caucasians, I reckon, glenn. Or that’s what the T-baggers would insist. “Throw them aitches in to corn-fuse us’ns.”

  • glenn : Kes–do you mean Cain has to say nueve, nueve, nueve?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : REGARDING RUBIO…you all know that he was a 2nd rate lawyer with a low income and then he discovered politics and parlayed his cubanness, his newly minted conservative orientation and a winning grin into state party office, the state legislature and then as speaker of the state house. In all of this he discovered the joys expense accounts, of pacs, of campaign funds AND how eager folks are to have you as their attorney when you write the laws. He has done very well. Palin like. AND, as he has praised Social Security and Medicare for caring for his parents on one hand (in front of old people), on the other hand he sides with Ryan and his budget (in front of rich people).

  • glenn : Kes–you mean you don’t say the “h” in “hola”? Then why is it there?

  • AdLib : Kes – Exactly! Phoenetically, it would sound like, “Wholla, vote poor me, aydeeose!”

  • choicelady : glenn – Cain had a NETWORK? See the joy at refusing to pay cable bills? I did NOT know that.

  • glenn : CL–Oops, okay. My bad.

  • kesmarn : They would be sure to sound the “h” on “Hola” too.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think that’s the sum total of FOX Spanglish.

  • AdLib : SO does Cain have his own show on Fox at 9 then 9 then 9?

  • glenn : Ad–Foxso-called news viewership may not just be sinking; it may be literally dying. Terrible thing to say, and I don’t wish it on anyone, but I do think eventually, they are going to run out of old people to watch and be scared.

  • kesmarn : GOP Spanglish, AdLib! [smiley]

  • choicelady : kes – nein, nein, nein.

  • AdLib : Kes – I think the Fox/Repub Spanish would go something like this, “Hola, vote por mi, adios!”

  • kesmarn : Will he have anything to say besides 999?

  • choicelady : kes – someday maybe I will. It’s been quite a ride!

  • glenn : CL–Yes, Cain. Guess his own network wasn’t working out, so he had to go somewhere.

  • choicelady : glenn – *I* don’t call you a Socialist! Dominionists do! I think you ROCK!

  • kesmarn : c’lady, you could — and should — write a book. You have had one interesting life.

  • AdLib : glenn – Fox’s viewership seems to sinking. They’ve captured all the RWs that they can and their twisting of the news has become so well known, there’s really nowhere else for them to go with reasonable Americans…IOW, the majority of Americans. Having Rove, O’Reilly and Hannity, not to mention their moronic morning team, makes it impossible for them to escape the image they’ve built for themselves.

  • choicelady : glenn – CAIN? That man is so dumb he gives Rubio a boost. Brown is sleazy so he fits right in.

  • kesmarn : [smiley] Yeppers, glenn.

  • glenn : CL–That is scary and spooky, too. And…you call me a socialist!

  • kesmarn : glenn, they just threw out Palin and Rove. Quite the revolving door at FOX, no?

  • choicelady : kes – the GOP will appeal to the ‘better side’ of Latinos on asking them to vote for them before they return to Mexico.

  • glenn : Kes–It’s easy–“Adios”

  • kesmarn : Yes, Adlib — how do you say “please vote for us and then self-deport.” In Spanish.

  • choicelady : kes – I checked with ALL the people involved. NO one had gone outside the circle or told anyone else. I had three more incidents with the FBI before they finally figured out I wasn’t dangerous.

  • glenn : Kes–Heard that about foxso-callednews , too. And, how about their two new “stars”–Cain and Brown?

  • AdLib : Kes – Fox and the RW want the Latino support but they want it for their anti-Latino stands. That’s a toughie.

  • kesmarn : Oooooh! It was email, c’lady? Youch! I didn’t catch that before. Spooky.

  • choicelady : Murph – you have my sympathies on the rain. We were inches ahead,and now we’re falling behind. I hope you get enough to get the seeds firmly rooted. Climate change is terribly scary!

  • kesmarn : I hear that FOX News is now starting “FOX Latino” –this after years of insisting that English and English only be written/spoken. Funny what losing an election will do to some people.

  • AdLib : glenn – CL is right, it was in the 2004 Dem primary.

  • choicelady : kes – it wasn’t even a phone call but an internal email chat. She SAID it was “on your web site” but it certainly was NOT. Every hair on my neck went up. When I checked her out… And to this day, in case she’s national security, I cannot give her name. I’d “out” her just like they did with Valerie Plame. I am NOT going to jail over that!

  • glenn : Thanks CL

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL….I have done some “teaching” during campaigns when I get used as a trainer for field staff. Perhaps that was the reference. As to the farm….we are not having a normal winter…again.. .7 inches behind in precipitation… .temps up and down which plays havoc with seeding…..

  • kesmarn : Yes, c’lady! I remember you mentioned that the so-called “reporter’ was way too familiar with a phone conversation you had had.

  • choicelady : glenn – you know, I don’t remember. 2004? I think that was right.

  • AdLib : I think Rubio is a relatively shallow brat who is being used by the GOP as a Latino facade to convince Latinos to vote for the same destructive, anti-Latino policies that have been rejected. There is no substance to him, he’s lied about his past, he’s just a tool…in every sense of the word.

  • glenn : CL and Ad–Thanks for the explanation. Once again, forgive my ignorance, but what year was this?

  • choicelady : kes – you remember the story I had about being contacted by the NSA or whoever about an internal email discussion in 2003? I NEVER take those things for granted after that. I’m not afraid of this administration but AM worried about private ‘eyes’.

  • kesmarn : Arrrrrr…”talk like a pirate.” And that’s what those three R’s arrrrre.

  • kesmarn : c’lady I think they just sorta scan for buzzwords. Nevertheless…

  • choicelady : glenn – cue the creepy music…

  • glenn : CL–A “new” slant on the three “R’s”.

  • choicelady : kes – I HATE that ‘crawling the site’ stuff. Gives me the willies.

  • AdLib : glenn – CL summed it up well, basically, after Dean had lost a primary, he was rallying his supporters and at the end of an energetic speech, gave a high pitched whoop. This was used by the MSM to portray him as insane. Dean represented a real threat to the status quo and the corps that own the MSM sure didn’t want him to win so they whipped up this bogus “discussion” about how crazy Dean was for expressing himself. It was a real intrusion by the MSM into our democracy, meddling to knock down the candidate they were most afraid of.

  • choicelady : Ryan, Romney, Rubio. I’m seeing conspiracy.

  • kesmarn : Howdy, Bing! Little creepy crawler!

  • kesmarn : So funny.

  • glenn : Jon Stewart’s take on rubio’s speech was brilliant, as usual!

  • choicelady : Murph – I thought that was right, but somewhere I wandered into the delusion you’d said you taught an occasional class. Don’t mind me. I make lots of stuff up.

  • kesmarn : Gosh glenn, I hate to think too hard about what it might have been….

  • kesmarn : Jon Stewart referred to him as “Pablo Ree-ahn.”

  • glenn : Kes–Are you sure it was Ryan’s hand?

  • choicelady : glenn and kes – you mean Rubio is the puppet to someone else’s ventriloquist? Hmmm – maybe Romney isn’t so out of it after all…

  • kesmarn : Paul Ryan’s hand in the back of Rubio’s jacket?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I have not been in the classroom for years…..but I consider my blog work an extension of the teacher/student experience, although I am as often a student as I am a teacher

  • glenn : kes–Oh that is funny about the Brits! That’s why rubio was so jerky and “wooden”.

  • choicelady : AdLib – yes, Rubio is a brat, and you can’t get past your own personality. It will always come out as it did w Romney.

  • kesmarn : glenn, it’s a pleasure to have you on the Planet. You be smart!!

  • AdLib : Hey Murph!

  • glenn : Good evening, Murph.

  • AdLib : CL – Rubio might go through months of training on how to give slicker speeches et al but he will always be that scared little brat and will make the mistakes that one of them does.

  • kesmarn : One British commentator said that Rubio’s big gulp was a “twist of the old ventriloquist’s trick”– to prove that he really WASN’T the one saying all that inane stuff. Gotta love the Brit take.

  • choicelady : Murph! How are you? How’s life on the farm? BTW – are you still teaching?

  • glenn : CL and kes–Lead away–I can always use some fun, and always have some when I’m here on the Planet.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…a number of evening programs ran Rubio’s speech side by side with the Romney stump speech.

  • choicelady : glenn – during one of the rallies for Dean, he was calling out all the states in support of him, and he was too close to the microphone and it was loud, boistrous, funny. But for SOME reason it was the END of his cadidacy as some called him demented and insane for that. I could not believe that something like that could ruin his chances.

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, that’s what’s gotten lost in Gulpgate, Rubio’s speech was just a rehash of the Romney BS, a mindless, uninspired, redundant, undetailed and crass-attack regurgitation. It was a terrible speech…even though Andrea Mitchell Greenspan and Chuck Odd (Todd) were trying to pump it up on MSNBC the next morning.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes….Airplane!

  • kesmarn : Hey, Murph! Just talking about Rubio’s drinking problem.

  • choicelady : glenn – well, we don’t think you’re in error. Only the RWNJs would, and they are no fun at ALL.

  • glenn : AdLib–Refresh my memory–remember I’m on SocialSecurity. What is the whoop we’re talking about regarding Dean?

  • kesmarn : We may just lead you astray, glenn. But we’ll have fun in the process.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Greetings….I signed in earlier and stepped away. You folks have been busy. So hello to AdLib, choicelady, glenn, kesmarn, and SallyT

  • glenn : Kes–I’m trying to learn the error of my ways–that’s why I’m hanging out with you all!

  • choicelady : AdLib – Jindal’s robot like walk to the speech and wooden delivery have been replicated over and over. I live with great confidence that Rubio will continue to screw up. It’s in his genes.

  • kesmarn : I hear you, c’lady! Muskie/Dukakis/D ean were victims of media assault initiated by the right. Funny how that can come back to bite…?

  • AdLib : Kes – I’ve always resented how the MSM dogpiled on Dean over that whoop. It was a bullshit reason to destroy the biggest threat to the status quo and did nothing to reveal any flaw about the candidate. Whereas in this case, Rubio’s inability to even deliver a short speech without folding says a lot about who he is.

  • choicelady : kes – I NEVER understood how Dean’s exuberance turned into a rout on his candidacy. NEVER got that. So what?

  • glenn : AdLib–not just “inexperienced ” and “unable to handle the pressure”, but a liar and a hypocrite to boot!

  • kesmarn : I think I get it, glenn. We po’ folks must learn the error of our ways before we can get wealth!

  • choicelady : kes – Dukakis and Muskie (who had been drugged by the White House plumbers, remember?) did nothing half so voluntary and stupid as Rubio. He couldn’t WAIT. Swallow and go ON? It was the act of the purely self indulgent. Stupid and shallow just as his speech was.

  • AdLib : CL – I think that Jindal’s rebuttal dimmed his lights permanently and I think this is a big setback for Rubio because the message that came across is “inexperienced ” and “unable to handle the pressure”.

  • kesmarn : Remember Howard Dean’s “whoooop!”? Paybacks.

  • glenn : Kes–I’m a socialist because even though I can say God loves me, I still want to have my Social Security. CL says that even though I say God loves me, it must not be true, because I’m not rich, I’m just a socialist. Or something like that. See? We’re using republican/tpart ier “logic”.

  • choicelady : kes – glenn had the audacity to say that if SHE says God loves her, she gets to keep her Social Security. Dominionists would burn her at the stake for that!

  • kesmarn : Hahahaha! I think it just might, AdLib. For once it’s a reverse Dukakis/Muskie moment.

  • choicelady : AdLib – There are those who think it will not be remembered. There those who think – oh, yeah, we will make SURE it is!

  • AdLib : So do you think that this being Rubio’s introduction to a national audience will harm him in his run for the Presidency in 2016?

  • kesmarn : glenn! When I walked in, you were just being called a socialist I believe. Greetings from Toledo Red!

  • choicelady : glenn – you can ALWAYS hang here. Unless you begin to hate us, then maybe not so much. But I seriously don’t see that happening.

  • glenn : Hey kes–how are you?

  • choicelady : AdLib – LOL!!! That is FINE!

  • glenn : CL–Ooooh–that ‘s a tough one. I’ll get back to you on that one. [smiley] Meantime, can I just hang here for a while?

  • kesmarn : Like (sllllpppp) wise, AdLib!

  • AdLib : I think Rubio is full of sip.

  • AdLib : Kes – Heh! It’s “glug” to see you!

  • kesmarn : Fi (slurp) ne!

  • choicelady : kes – how (glug) are you??

  • kesmarn : Let me just make sure my water bottle is nearby before I say “Hel (gulp) lo! Friends!”

  • AdLib : CL – Cruz is so transparent though and has no credibility, unlike McCarthy when he began the commie witch hunt. Cruz betrays the GOP as a party of hateful reptiles, he’s not helping them which is why some came out to chastize him so quickly.

  • choicelady : glenn – you can always be born again and see what happens, or you can hang out with us and be happy. Your call.

  • glenn : CL–Okay, I think I have it now. I’m not rich, so I’m just a “taker”, even though I paid into SS all of my working life, and I’m not rich enough to take all of those “overseas” tax deductions. Got it.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Yes!

  • AdLib : CL – Would it be possible to drop by Darrell’s office next week?

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think you’ve defined Rubio to the foundations of all he is. Which ain’t much.

  • AdLib : glenn – One would have to literally be unintelligent or a mindless follower to listen to Rubio and believe anything other than that he is a selfish, “I got mine, screw you getting yours” hypocrite.

  • choicelady : glenn – SOCIALIST!!!! If God REALLY loved you, you’d be RICH!!!!

  • glenn : CL–So, if I say God loves me, do I get to keep my Social Security?

  • choicelady : glenn – that’s easy. God tells each of them he/she is God’s fave. They tell us. See how easy that is?

  • choicelady : AdLib – and then there’s Cruz. Twitter had a message today showing Joe McCarthy and Cruz – and swear to God you could NOT tell the difference.

  • glenn : CL–So the government can choose “winners and losers”–just the ones that God loves? How do we know who they are?

  • AdLib : It just amazes me how desperate the GOP is to have a leader, they keep foisting the “savior” mantle onto one loser after another. Rubio is an amateur, a poor speaker, a hypocirte and liar.

  • choicelady : glenn – that is the politics of the Dominionist mindset. I get things because I deserve them. You don’t have them? God no love you…

  • choicelady : AdLib – well, let’s see what happens. I’m disappointed I did not get the call from Darrell’s office until today – did not check messages for a couple of days and… I was in the Capitol all yesterday and could have SEEN HER. Duh.

  • glenn : AdLib–Talk about being in over your head. How can you stand in front of a national t.v. audience and talk about how you got through college on a student loan, and that your mother couldn’t live without Medicare, then say, “too bad, I got mine, my mother got hers, but f..k the rest of you!

  • choicelady : glenn – as a former board member of the National Religious Coalition Against Torture, may I say even *I* would never waterboard EVEN Rubio! He did it to himself though…

  • AdLib : Marco’s theme song, “How Dry I Am”.

  • AdLib : glenn – I think Rubio will sink of his own weight. He’s in over his head. He’ll go down with the ship.

  • choicelady : Oh glenn – that is perfect! Marco “Big Gulp”. I’ve seen that a few times now. It’s not the gulp that grosses me out – it’s the mouthwash swish BEFORE the gulp that is disgusting!

  • glenn : What does everyone think about mccain’s admission that he’s blocking hagel’s nomination out of spite?

  • AdLib : Hey CL! Got your update, you’ve been busy!

  • choicelady : Hi – Just got here, so thank you. Hello all – hope your week was good?

  • AdLib : glen [smiley]

  • glenn : Doing well AdLib. Are we waterboarding rubio tonight?

  • AdLib : Hey glenn! Doing just fine, how are you on this holiday weekend?

  • glenn : And..ChoiceLady- -how are you? Didn’t mean to leave you out.

  • glenn : Marco “Big Gulp” Rubio. How are you, Murph, AdLib and Sally?

  • AdLib : They did movie title parodies on Twitter based on Rubio’s “drinking problem”, lots of song titles could apply as well, “Water Wonderful World”, “Take Me to the River”, “Sippin’ On the Dock of the Bay”…

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” or Marco “Big Gulp” Rubio when you arrive.

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’m off as well. We are going away to the GA mountains for St. Valentine’s day to take a long overdue break. I may check in a time or two.

  • AdLib : Sleep well!

  • SallyT : Good night!

  • SallyT : No problem!

  • AdLib : Just make sure we’re above the fold!

  • SallyT : Don’t worry, AdLib, I’ll be in there with you!

  • AdLib : Heh!

  • SallyT : I’ll see you in the funny papers!

  • AdLib : Night Murph!

  • AdLib : Yep, grab the bowls of peanuts and I’ll grab the beer bottles. Thanks for closing the Vox bar with me again, Sally. Looking forward to Sunday’s Funnies!

  • SallyT : I guess it is just you and me, AdLib.

  • SallyT : Good night, Murph!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…good point. And you are correct…a good place to close. Thanks for the discussion. Good night.

  • SallyT : I thought it was because he wouldn’t say he was or wasn’t, Murph?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally and unwilling to play the game….being gay was ok if you were discreet, but honesty earned no points. That is why he was jailed.

  • AdLib : Murph – A great way to close, I too like the upside of the parliamentary system, think of how much Obama could have accomplished in 8 years with it. Then again, think about how much more destruction Bush could have caused.

  • SallyT : Murph, it made me tear up to think of poor Oscar Wilde. So talent and so mistreated because he was “different”.

  • AdLib : Night CL! Rest well!

  • AdLib : CL – “TSA to junk naked body airport scanners – The TSA says the X-ray scanners will be gone by June because Rapiscan was not able to come up with a software fix to make the scanners comply with a Congressional mandate that the scanners better protect passenger privacy. Opponents of full-body scanners argue that strip searches without probable cause violate basic human rights.” «link»

  • SallyT : He was great, wasn’t he!?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally….I did.

  • SallyT : Goodnight, CL and rest well.

  • SallyT : Parliament!

  • SallyT : That was great, Murph, did you see that gentlemen give his speech to parliment?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Good night KT and Choice!

  • choicelady : Murph – you make a very good point about Parliament! Good night!

  • SallyT : Goodnight, KT, and have a good rest so you can get up and start loading music!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Great discussion tonight…Before I leave….wanted to point out why I prefer a Parliamentary System to our structure…the passage of the Marriage Equality bill in Britain…on the legislative docket for three months…three vigorous debates in the House after three committee reports…and passage.

  • AdLib : Night KT! Sleep well!

  • choicelady : KT -I’m with you. I’ve had a very long but productive week, and I’m exhausted. You’re three hours ahead, too! So I also am saying good night. Thank you everyone for an excellent and thought provoking evening!

  • AdLib : KT – The Founders wanted civilian control of our military, thus we have a President who is also CIC. The Pres is a civilian and as has been documented with JFK, the generals were convicted about bombing Cuba which would have likely set off a nuclear exchange between us and the USSR. It was only the fact that we had a civilian, JFK, as CIC that the military mindset of the time was blocked from causing a massive catastrophe.

  • choicelady : Sally – hmmm. Wonder if that’s the very nice women I met in Ashland with him? She was lovely! Maybe he’s nicer than he seemed, but I see pettiness in him as I did with Dennis whom I also had liked very much. Until I didn’t.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think we have NOT given up the privacy and civil rights talk. The problem is we have those who want EVERYONE (except themselves) under the microscope and those who want everything (except their writings, phone calls, etc.) totally revealed to the entire public 24/7. We aren’t doing the discussion well at ALL.

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, the reality is, that in war time the government feels no resposibility to release military secrets. War would be quite unsuccessful without secrets. It does boil down to a faith in our leaders.

  • SallyT : Who are these people that say he is pissed? He comes from a state that is very progressive and he should be questioning our lack of policy on drone use. That does not make him an enemy of the President.

  • choicelady : AdLib – nobody sees you nekkid to fly! I had to go through those giant machines last year – it’s a cartoon outline. Found my watch, though. Forgot to take it off… duh.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I agree…all of which points to the need for a structure for policy development and review, and for operational oversight.

  • choicelady : Sally – what he did formally was good. But people who know him have indicated he felt slighted and is still pissed. Like Kucinich did. Petty people can be tricky to deal with.

  • KillgoreTrout : Well friends, it’s time to count sheep. I still don’t how many it takes to reach slumberland! Long may run!

  • SallyT : And, Senator Wyden is married to a very wealthy lady. I have spoken with him and he is very willing to discuss issues he is familiar with and very imformative.

  • choicelady : KT – it is the bomb that has set off all the discussion. Should there have been some civilian or ethical determination before it was dropped? It is naive to think it’s all going to get ‘sunshine’ when security is an issue, but HOW much secrecy is OK? If drones are known and policies are made about them by our Congress, then it’s head and shoulders over what happened at Stagg Field and in New Mexico. We ARE tired of being lied to – but I don’t see this use of drones AS a lie at all. I’ve known it for years.

  • AdLib : CL – That is scary! We do indeed need to be publicly discussing our rights and how they should and shouldn’t be compromised in the pursuit of protecting ourselves. Unfortunately, that debate seems to have ended after 9/11 when too many people agreed that any sacrifice of rights is okay as long as it makes us feel more secure. Like being seen nude just to be able to fly on a plane.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…yes, that is my point. I think Wyden is using this to dig away at the Obama administration.. .one of the unhappy who believe they should be far more important than they are.

  • SallyT : CL, I have to disagree with you about Senator Wyden as he is Oregons. He is not upset by the health care plan, in fact, he withdrew his support from the committee with the Republican he was working with and said he was in agreement with the President.

  • KillgoreTrout : The CIC acts in the capacity of head of the armed services, so I question how that position is related to civilian affairs. It’s like the deisions mad all through WWII. How many of those decisions were made public? It’s like the decision to use the atomic bomb. No civilians were asked whether it was right or wrong. Not before the weapons were used, because the government kept them in the dark.

  • choicelady : Murph – I have some real problems with Wyden.He is furious with Obama for not accepting his bi-partisan plan on health care that would have been a disaster. He’s never forgiven Obama for the ‘slight’. I stayed at a B&B where he was once. He never even spoke ONE WORD to any of us. We sat behind him and his girlfriend at a play, and she talked with us. He ignored us utterly. So I see him as a very odd and egotistical person. He kind of worries me.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- in this case the paper was the legal basis and the philosophical foundation for the policy that the Senate Committee seems to have accepted. It is the kind of thing that would be useful for them to work with as well.

  • AdLib : Murph – Right, as it should be. I do think Brennan will fill them in on much more than the public should know though I think this is quite overdue. Again, I’m not upset at nor untrusting of Obama and his admin on this, I am concerned at how operating without real oversight sets a bad precedent for when Repubs return to the WH.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think that IS the issue. In 2003 just after the war started, we were hacked at the office by probably NSA. We had been having an internal email discussion about a rumor that the FBI was demanding imam’s sermons BEFORE they were given. We were debating weighing in on it. Later I was alone in the office and got a call from a “reporter” asking about that – and she knew a LOT of the conversation. I blew her off then called NBC and KNBC where she claimed she worked – they never heard of her. So WHO is monitoring things such as computers – MY computer -does matter. We won’t abandon computers in case another Bush or Dominionist comes around. Same with ANYTHING. The Nazis monitored radios. It all comes down to RIGHTS rather than the medium. We need to be debating WAR not just the particular mode of war.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…here is my reading….the paper was the philosophical underpinning for the operational parameters…the Senate Committee has been dealing with those but had not seen the paper. Who is making the most fuss over the paper, those not happy with the operations. Wyden et. al. I think they are using it as a lever.

  • KillgoreTrout : This makes me think of the social compact and just what personalfreedoms are we going to sacrifice for the good of the nation.

  • AdLib : KT – Actually, the President is CIC and he is a civilian, as is the Sec’y of Defense, SoS and Congress which is usually given oversight over military actions.

  • KillgoreTrout : For our government to work properly, especially in a time of war (declared or not declared) a certain amount a secrecy within the government is necessary. For the defense of our nation.

  • AdLib : Murph – If the Senate doesn’t even have a position paper on when and how drone strikes are used, it would seem that they would have to be out of the loop when those decisions are being made.

  • SallyT : The point I am making is that things can be misinterpreted and you can be setup. Yes, you don’t worry because you are a good person but you just never know how something can be used. For that reason I have a problem with it.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…my point is that the committee will be able to talk turkey with Brennan in a closed setting and this is where the issue of policy development and operations oversight can be really addressed and not in the media storm of the open hearings.

  • AdLib : CL – It’s very different when a computer is using software that could track your every move in a city and profile you. In the hands of a conscientious government, it probably wouldn’t be a concern. But if a RW Dominionist became President…

  • choicelady : Murph – my thought about that paper is that if the White House or any other gov’t agency turned over all their papers, we’d lose sight of the Capitol under them all. If they know the facts and principles – the specific briefing docs seem a red herring.

  • SallyT : CL, there was a camera!! It couldn’t tell anything except that we were standing there and talking.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, civilians have neve been in charge or even informed about the use of military weapons. There is a good reason for that. Who knows what eyes and ears are watching. As far as the use of drones in civilian life, use within the confines of our borders, i don’t know what agency or law would be responsible for their use.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib I don’t know about that. Feinstein and members of the committee are briefed regularly and she seems to have the particulars nailed down. The current hoopla is over a position paper that was not shared although it seems as if its operational principles were known.

  • choicelady : Sally – well, then NOT a Good Samaritan but a creep! Sorry that happend to you. Did it turn out OK I hope?

  • choicelady : Sally – I’m not being a brat, but that’s where a camera could HELP. It would show you were just arguing and that he had not been violent.

  • SallyT : Oh, and another thing, CL, the guy wanted us to lose are assigned parking place so he wanted to get us in trouble. See, people can set you up!

  • AdLib : Murph – Yes, but it doesn’t change the fact that Congress hasn’t been consulted or had any oversight over the drone program to date.

  • choicelady : Murph – OK, got it. AdLib – how is that any different from FasTrak on my car? “They” know when I go over a bridge up here! I don’t think they much care unless it’s a way of proving I did or didn’t have a real alibi in a crime. And I don’t intend to commit one, so there. I just think if we can be tailed (and I have been – five times – by extremists not the cops) cameras are sort of irrelevant.

  • SallyT : CL, it was that passerby interpretation of what was happening and not the facts. That can happen when you don’t know what you are looking at but guessing. People can get hurt by people thinking they know more than they do!

  • AdLib : KT – Also, oversight of the drones needs to be by civilian government, the people we elect. I sure don’t want unelected generals making decisions for us.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…let’s not forget there is a full day of closed hearings with Brennan next week.

  • AdLib : KT – Because in the hearings, Senators were expressing how upset they were that they couldn’t get the information they needed to know what was going on with the drone strikes and how determinations were being made…after the fact, let alone before the strikes.

  • choicelady : Sally – well, good for the passerby caring about you, but yikes – how embarrassing! THAT is what I was raised to understand – when you’re outside, you’re NOT private. So I REALLY don’t understand the expectation of privacy. Not saying I’m right – I just don’t. I’m always on my best behavior!

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, i think that may have been the case. Bush was a law breaker from the start. He was a war criminal IMO, and initiated the largest agency to spy on American. An agency, that is still in operation. Who do you trust? I’d have to say, Our system of checks and balances.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- This would not be a law but a statement of policy with conditions for operation. I believe the intelligence committee, Feinstein’s crowd, could act with reps from WH Intelligence and Judiciary reps.

  • SallyT : Even more reason to question drones in my opinion if it started with Bush!!

  • AdLib : CL – Being in public and visible to others isn’t the same as having video cameras able to track you wherever you go and have that video passed through computer software that can monitor and classify your activities.

  • SallyT : Me too Scared!~!! They didn’t know me at all!

  • SallyT : When I told the police that we were just arguing about something silly, they said they didn’t need me to arrest him. There had been a complaint and I was just to scared to say.

  • choicelady : AdLib – yes, I know the PERF story, but I’m not sure from police I know that it’s true. Some yes. Many or most, no. Local PDs wouldn’t work with them – Sacramento and many other cities told them to take a hike.

  • SallyT : CL, I was once in a argument with my husband over something totally silly and we did get loud. We were in the parking lot of our gated vacation spot. A passer by called the police. My husband was almst arrested for wife abuse!

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, how do you know there hasn’t been any oversight? If not the CIA, then who? The pentagon? The Joint Chiefs? Fact is, we don’y really know who is determining what targets get hit, and by what agency. I guess these is a certain amount of trust in our federal government.

  • choicelady : Murph – don’t we HAVE to have the House to pass a real law?

  • choicelady : Sally – Bush DID use drones! It was the whole operation of the war that we objected to. Now with us out of Iraq and coming out of Afghanistan, the focus CAN narrow to drones. It’s what’s left. And because the threat has moved into other countries via individuals who want to carry it on, it makes PBO’s actions more conspicuous by their comparative rarity and visibility.

  • AdLib : Murph – I agree with your proposal, there needs to be oversight from all three branches on such a deadly program.

  • choicelady : AdLib – do we have an expectation of privacy on public streets? How? I had neighbors once where the husband beat the crap out of his wife ON THE STREET fairly regularly. I used to intervene only to have the brute say, “Shut up! This is PRIVATE!” To which I replied – no, you’re in PUBLIC. I don’t have and never had had ANY expectation of privacy outside my home or work or friends’ homes. I just thought it was where anything you did all the world could see. So I don’t understand that concept.

  • AdLib : CL – Have you read this story? “Confirmed: Police Executive Research Forum (PERF) coordinating Occupy raids”: «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : I am not particularly fond of cameras and drones that employ them. It could be argued that drones in our skies further protect the citizens. It’s really a matter of just who is behind the controls of such technology.

  • SallyT : I wonder if our opinions would be different if Bush had been using drones?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I was not thinking of the House. The Senate.

  • AdLib : KT – That’s the big problem, there hasn’t been any oversight on the drone program and the decisions to kill. In Obama’s hands, I’m pretty confident he wouldn’t order a killing unless the target was fully proven to be a real threat. But if Romney was President?

  • choicelady : Murph – that makes total sense, but without a functioning House, it’s not going to work. The GOP have made every issue very difficult to resolve well.

  • choicelady : AdLib – in fact that was NOT nationally coordinated. Every PD acted differently. Most of it was from those that HAD been ‘federalized’ in reaction to 9/11 – not formally but de facto. Look at Portland, Denver, etc. – not an incident to behold. In Oakland it was Oakland living out its nightmare PD. They did not need any help – they are horrid and deserve federal oversight. So it’s NOT a nationwide phenomenon.

  • AdLib : CL – Personally, I do think government cameras in public places are a huge violation of our right to privacy. It is one of those clear cases of giving up important freedoms out of fear and desperation for security. It has worked in the UK to control crime but at what cost?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL…Drone Policy and Operations Review Authority….I think the key is shared responsibility in setting and promulgating policy by the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches and then an Executive Committee with reps from all three to review ongoing operations.

  • SallyT : A problem I have is that we are a nation of laws and we are a nation that use to set standards for other countries to consider as just and implement. I don’t like to see our standards diminished.

  • KillgoreTrout : As with any new development in the technology of warfare, it’s use is decided by our government. I think we have to maintain our faith in the integrity of our system of checks and balances between the three branches. Without such faith, our whole system begins to crack. I am not saying we shouldn’t be vigilant, but we must combine vigilance with reason.

  • choicelady : So what do we think of cameras at intersections or, as in England, everywhere? Are they invasions of privacy on public streets?

  • AdLib : CL – And how can we forget the nationally coordinated police forces across the country that beat and gassed into submission the OWS movement. That was pretty scary, made you relize just how quick and easy it would be for government to crack down on the people and widespread protests.

  • choicelady : AdLib – there is a video of a drone over Elgin, Illinois. It’s sort of the “Roseanne” city – blue collar, down at the heels. What a waste of a drone! NOTHING is going on there. Probably drug surveillance or something. I don’t like it, but until Congress gets its act together, we will have this kind of creepy stuff.

  • choicelady : AdLib – if the Congress were not such a mess, we COULD pass laws limiting military weapons to war zones, period. We did once outlaw the CIA spying on Americans. Until 9/11. Then Bush placed a CIA operative in the NYPD – and federalized that police department because of it. They spied on everyone. Obama pulled the operative and ended the right of NYPD to be quasi-federal. But yes – it could easily happen under the wrong president.

  • AdLib : Here’s a map of where drones are allowed to fly in the US. Keep in mind, these are surveillance drones, not armed drones…at least right now: «link»

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, I think nuclear weapons are a whole different matter.

  • AdLib : CL – I have no problem with Alwaki being taken out, as you say, he was a murderer of American troops and plotting to continue. I’m just looking ahead, what if a Mitt Romney had such drones at his command?

  • choicelady : AdLib – drones are instruments of war. We do not – and hope we never do – have war against people within our own borders. We don’t use military weapons for the most part – police don’t even have automatic rifles. We did do something of the kind in Waco with the tanks, and those sorts of things are extraordinary not routine. We bombed a Black radical group in Philadelphia – and wiped out a neighborhood for blocks. So the use of military weapons is NOT a good idea in the states esp. cities! We don’t do it often or maybe now at all.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, definitely not. Within the borders of America, people have the right to a trial by jury. A trial by their peers. I see it as a judicial matter more than an act of combat.

  • SallyT : The drone also killed his 16 year old son who was over from the US for a visit. Was the boy quilty because of who his father was as one senator said, “He should have had a better father.

  • AdLib : Yes Sally, like you, I’m not as focused on what’s happening now but where this path leads us. Do we want drones flying in our skies that those in power can use to kill Americans if they believe them to be an imminent threat? What if a far right Repub becomes President and has such drones flying over our towns, would we feel freer and safer?

  • KillgoreTrout : Used to be, that those who were caught spying against their own country were put to death. The difference now is that in the past, those accussed had a trial. But when someone commits the same crimes, outside of the US, they don’t get, or deserve a trial. I think when they join the enemy, they lose all rights as an American citizen.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I will bet – and I don’t know – that we did not target Alwaki in Yemen without a quiet permission FROM Yemen. Holder talked about this a lot last year – and the way they read the law. Maybe they are wrong, but they did not do this without consulting the best resources they could. War is very different from even covert ops. THAT creeps me out, but Alwaki had already killed American troops and others, and his danger was clear. I think that does make the situation different from targeting someone who is a sympathizer but who had done nothing.

  • SallyT : AdLib, I think you and I are seeing this in the same respect. It is not how it has been used to date, even tho there may be questions there, but how will it be used in the future and by whom and for what reason?

  • AdLib : Should drones be used in the US to kill Americans who pose an imminent threat?

  • SallyT : But, it is a weapon that will be developed and used by other countries just like the atomic bomb was. That makes it a danger to anyone that does not believe the same as the country next to them.

  • AdLib : CL – Well, the difference is that the US is going into foreign countries and disregarding the laws there to take out whoever they have decided needs to be killed. That’s not the same as Americans falling under the legal jurisdiction of the country they’re in. At the same time, I’m not saying that our government shouldn’t have the ability to kill those who are in the process of carrying out the murder of innocent Americans before that happens. It is about drones but even more, it’s about how unaccountable those people are who order a killing.

  • SallyT : I can see the advantages of drones over bombing the hell out of a country to get just one guy or one tribe of enemies.

  • choicelady : KT – I keep asking and not getting an answer about what happened to people like that who aided Hitler IN Europe? Or any other war? We targeted Union people who fought for the Confederacy, that I know. What about overseas wars and collaborators NOT in the US? Alwaki’s citizenship pretty much seems irrelevant once he took his stand. And I feel for the military families who think too many Americans are willing to sacrifice THEIR loved ones to protect Alwaki’s “rights”. They could have died trying to extract him from his bunker in Yemen. It’s NOT an intellectual exercise on the constitution – it’s real life and a hard decision.

  • KillgoreTrout : I have 0 sympathy for any American who chooses to wage war against their own country. It’s always a sad thing to see anybody killed, but as far as constituional rights go, I think anybody who fights against their own country deserves what they get. Ancestery or not, those who seek to kill Americans, on an undefined battle ground make their own choices as to life and death.

  • choicelady : Sally – I think that’s the wisest course: the UN. I don’t doubt bystander deaths. What I do think is that the harm has been VASTLY reduced when we moved away from bombs and artillery to drones. That is why they’re used. The problem is they are imperfect just like anything. I want a clear policy because yes, who is the next president?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : DRONES…I have written several pieces at HP in which I listed all of the “not boots on the ground” responses to threats and it seems clear that drones need to be part of a whole series of tactics. I think the key is shared responsibility is setting and accepting policy by the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches and then an Executive Committee with reps from all three to review ongoing operations.

  • AdLib : Sally – Yes, it is the long term and blowback that is always lost in the shuffle. What happens when a religious state has drones and uses them against those who they oppose? Or if an American is considered a spy and killed by a drone in another country. RIght now, we have them and nobody else does so it may seem under control but as they become widespread, having flying robots that can kill people at the push of the button is pretty scary.

  • choicelady : AdLib – drones aren’t the issue. There is absolutely NO difference between what happened to Alwaki (sp?) and Dykes in Alabama. They were both ongoing and imminent threats, both were shot without “due process” to prevent harm to other people. When you’re abroad, you do NOT have the protection of the Constitution – think of all the drug dealers from the US in Turkish prisons. You live by the law of the nation in which you are standing. I looked a lot of this up and was indeed pretty surprised at the fact that once out of US jurisdiction, we’re toast legally. Remember the kid in Singapore who was caned. Nothing we could do got that stopped. So if you’ve become a terrorist in company with others, you don’t have easy protection. No way to get him in Yemen. NONE. He made his choice – and his threat was real. So like Dykes, he faced the hard end of a choice to be violent.

  • SallyT : I have seen many reporters that have returned from over in Pakastan and Afgan that say there have been many innocents hit with the drones but no one is telling.

  • SallyT : I have a problem with drones myself. I can trust President Obama with his use but I don’t know who will come after him and how they will use them. And, what happens when other countries gets them and starts using them? I think there needs to be much discussion and regulations on their use. The UN needs to be involved, too.

  • AdLib : CL – You’ve got to let me see that photo of you with the MP-5!

  • AdLib : Sally – The drones are a big problem, especially when one considers that a Repub will be in the WH again one day. This is why, some pundits say, Obama is establishing specific rules for their use. One discussion (on Hardball?) today was, if it is legal to kill Americans who have joined Al Qaeda and represent an imminent threat in the ME, wouldn’t it be legal to use a drone in the US and kill an American here who has similarly joined AQ and is an imminent threat? SO drone killings in the US can take place or will take place one day?

  • SallyT : Murph, I saw that too. He said that the conspire nuts would jump on it not being a true picture and be off and running with that.

  • KillgoreTrout : Thanks CL. It is very much my pleasure to be able to open a forum for such an important part of all our lives. It so nice to get positive feedback.

  • choicelady : Murph – it was pretty cool being in the same group with Farrell. His wife is Shelly Faberes and is SHE neat! I do remember that episode but NOT that line! That’s priceless!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally….I saw a reporter from Bloomberg on Maher tonight and he made the point about the gun that shut up the liberals on the panel…he said that once Carney mentioned that they skeet shoot at Camp David they had to release it for….the folks already in his corner who would know that the folks on the right remain totally obsessed with nonsense. AN interesting take.

  • choicelady : Sally – I am really upset about the slams on drones. The president is TRYING to minimize “collateral damage” and I heard on NPR that of all the strikes this year, only THREE people who were innocent bystander got harmed. Think of Bush’s carpet bombings! The photo of the president is to silence the ahats who insist if you don’t shoot you don’t understand. It’s a much better photo than the one the FBI has of me at their Citizens Academy – I’m wielding an MP-5 assault weapon. Turns out I’m a GREAT shot with it. Creepy talent to have I must say.

  • AdLib : KT – Couldn’t agree more, I too think enlightenment is the purpose of the lives of human beings.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, you are not definitely talking to yourself. Your selection of funnies are right on and relevant. I really do look forward to them, each week. Keep up the good work. it may be appreciated more than you suspect.

  • AdLib : Amazing, I guess he’s still around via webcasts, here is Dr. Demento’s site: «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- You and Mike Farrell…that fits. And yes, Mulcahey was the kind of minister most of us hope to have- loyal to his own tradition but realizing that it only reflects a part of the truth. Remember the show in which an old man believed he had been cursed and a woman animist priest came to the hospital in a multicolored outfit with fans, bells and feathers and exorcised him in a series of wonder dance moves? Mulcahey said she was a cross between an Archbishop and a Geisha! Loved it.

  • SallyT : Well, they are being really tough on the Prez this week in the cartoons with the drones. Many on the left have problems with those, too. And, why did the White House release that picture of the President with the gun and skeet shooting? Damn!

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, I think you are right. The enlightenment may not be as fast as we would like, but I attribute that to such differences in our ages and life experiences. I do think enlightenment is one of the basic purposes of our lives.

  • choicelady : AdLib – ahhh. Definitely different person.

  • AdLib : Murph – That song was by Bennie Bell, whoever posted it credited Benny Hill. It is a classic gag song from the music hall days.

  • choicelady : Murph – it could be the same man. He was NOT young when we were.

  • choicelady : Sally – that is SO wonderful! You’ve got FANS!!! I’m sure KT has the same. I know I don’t comment much – but I look and love the music and let that be. I DO love your work, KT!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I wonder if the Bennie Hill I knew of took his name from that Bennie Hill…It being in the 1940’s means it is from the Music Hall period which means it is every bit as raunchy as it appears to be.

  • SallyT : That is okay, Murph, you don’t have to say anything. Just that you looked in makes my day!

  • AdLib : Murph – That’s what I’ve been sharing with Sally, lots of readers for the Sunday Funnies but the comics say it all so most readers don’t leave comments…they just return the following week!

  • choicelady : AdLib – yes. I think. That’s pretty convoluted, but I DO understand!

  • AdLib : CL – Yes but the ignorant like these haters are too ignorant to know that they are the ones who are ignorant.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally….I think that those who are doing as my friends are doing are just dipping into the well you are digging for them every week. Because the cartoons are so visual, just responding in words does not cut it. So….I do the same thing. I need to remember to bow in your direction every week but since I don’t have anything better to say than what you said through the cartoonists, I laugh, take notes, make a copy and move on.

  • choicelady : Murph – Fr. Mulcahey would have a coronary ONLY IF someone told him what it meant. I feel quite sure he’d not know on his own. He was the image of the good priest, wasn’t he? I got an award along with Mike Farrell both of us for supporting First Amendment freedoms FROM religion, and I mentioned Fr. Mulcahey as the person we’d NOT have to fight! I recall in one episode he had to perform a Jewish rite, and did it just fine. THAT is a man who understands perfect love.

  • AdLib : Murph – The credit on that song was wrong, it’s by Bennie Bell from the 1940’s. There used to be a radio show out here that was later syndicated, Dr. Demento, which played all the wacky and weird songs ever recorded and I remembered that one.

  • SallyT : I am very glad to hear that, AdLib! I wonder at times if I am talking to myself, well, that I do do. But you know what I mean.

  • AdLib : Sally – I told you your readership was growing on Sunday Funnies! Congrats!

  • KillgoreTrout : Hpoe you’re feeling better kes. I always enjoy your company.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…yes Sherman would be so upset. Fr. Mulcahey would be having a coronary.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Yeah, but the problem is WE aren’t ignorant. But I AM exhausted fighting them. They are SO dogmatic!

  • choicelady : Sally – OK that makes SENSE!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…how do you pull songs like that out of your hat? Bennie Hill…the master of double entendre.

  • KillgoreTrout : You are absolutely right Ad. We are all on some sort of path, some sort of journey. Even if we are not aware of it. We are all going to die. I don’t see it as something to fear.

  • AdLib : CL – Dominionist or Aggressive Atheists, they’re just angry, insecure people looking for a reason to feel good about themselves by attacking the ignorant “others”.

  • choicelady : Sally – see? What are crone cartoons anyway?

  • SallyT : Oh hell, I meant DRONE CARTOONS!

  • choicelady : AdLib – that song MAY be TMI…

  • choicelady : Murph – bleeping Col Potter!!! How very funny!

  • SallyT : I am going to have to go and weed out a bunch of the crone cartoons. There are a lot of them. It is the hot topic in cartoon land.

  • choicelady : KT – a whole lotta Christians would agree with you and find that very familiar and very comfortable. We are growing ever more universal every single day.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- well in both cases you were the life of the Party.

  • KillgoreTrout : Sally, my bud. How are you this fine evening?

  • SallyT : But, Murph, I am glad to hear that you are enjoying them!

  • AdLib : DOn’t tell me you’ve never heard the song, “Everybody Wants My Fanny”? «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…I am sure they do not. Col. Sherman Potter on MASH used to use the phrase until a writer got a call from a British friend who happened to catch the show while in the States. I am told that MASH in syndication in Britain has to have a bleep when Potters says it.

  • SallyT : Murph, I have been plastered all over the office at a couple of Christmas parties many years ago.

  • choicelady : Sally! You’re a STAR!!! OK a star in Missouri but a star nonetheless. Wonder how many people across America are poaching your site and pasting up your ‘finds’? How very cool!

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, as a Taoist, i Belive that there is no human name for god or Tao. It’s all a mystery to us. I like the mystery. It keeps us thinking. The Tao has no end, and it has no beginning. I think the whole concept of Tao is to teach those of us that exist in the material world. A vague model for living and interacting with our fellow humans, AND nature. We are, after all, one and the same.

  • choicelady : Sally – I have often wondered if some of us who are on other parts of the Planet don’t show up even if we’ve not locked into Vox. I think you’re evidence we do.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T….your cartoon post ended up being printed up and plastered all over a volunteer office in which I work. This may be a trend. Two of the regulars there loved it. I invited them to join the Planet but I think they just like poaching. They were able to capture the images and print them individually. They must have put up 30 of them.

  • choicelady : Murph – wonder if some of the people I’ve heard use “my sweet Fanny Adams” even KNOW that.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I really am sick of fighting Dominionist to right of me atheists to left! They are both sneeringly condescending, and NEITHER of them knows a GD thing about religion (which I don’t care about) and NOTHING about faith and spirituality which I DO care about.

  • SallyT : I must show up there when I am over inputting cartoons.

  • choicelady : Hey Sally! Saw you in the balcony. Glad you’re here!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Sweet Fanny Adams is a reference to buggery…in a very convoluted, typically British fashion….

  • AdLib : Night Kes, have a swig for me! Sleep well, sorry you’re not feeling well!

  • choicelady : kes – hope you feel better soon! I’d rest on KT’s medical advice of Vick’s Vapo Rub and toddies. It really works. Enough toddies, you don’t care anyway.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hi Sally

  • SallyT : I’ve been known to clear a room before, Kes.

  • choicelady : Murph – and here I thought that expression was some kind of toned down saying. Glad I never used it. Was in Andover with an English friend once – he about dropped dead when I suggested we go to a bar called Shags.

  • KillgoreTrout : Thanks kes. The name/term was foreign to my heathen ears! ;)

  • AdLib : KT – Agreed, I find the strident and condescending “atheists” as obnoxious and deluded as the RW Extremists. The hatred and disdain that this type expresses shows the same kind of insecurity and inferiority complex as those on the Right who insist that America must become ruled by the Bible. Those who are comfortable and confident in their beliefs have no need of attacking others.

  • kesmarn : Will do, Murph… and howdy and g’night to Miss Sally!

  • SallyT : Hello those that are here!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes….get well. Try some natural stuff.

  • choicelady : Murph – I gave friends in Cardiff an American-English dictonary. It was ESSENTIAL.

  • KillgoreTrout : Awe shucks AB! Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate your contributions.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AB- Yeah, Frances sounds worthy of emulation.

  • kesmarn : Well, dear friends, I think I will take my Nyquilled self off to bed and spare you further babbling. Have a wonderful weekend — cough — cough — cough!

  • choicelady : AB – we need to know more about Fanny Hill next time!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- OH YES!

  • choicelady : Murph – so “my sweet Fanny Adams” is dirty?

  • choicelady : KT – I think these days most of our folks don’t think there is a GOD as a figure, a single entity, a supreme being who is all wise. God is – I don’t know what. Everyone has a different thought about it. Life force? Collective intelligence? Quarks? It means they don’t rule out SOMETHING but don’t assert it either. On the other hand, I’m touched when someone has a very quiet, simple connection to a God who is a personal friend – kids do that, and it’s very dear. Who’s to say now we have Spooky Action at a Distance. Could be another. Could be infinity. LOTS we don’t know!

  • AlphaBitch : Same here, KT. Keep ’em sober, AdLib. And watch that Kes – she’s on a roll tonight!!! xo AB

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL and AB I know this because I went to school in England from 12- 15 and got into big trouble thinking I was using the polite word for “butt”. Everyone gasped. Fortunately I had an understanding school master.

  • AlphaBitch : Murph: Her name was Frances, but she was called Fanny. I obviously take after her.

  • KillgoreTrout : Have a lovely weekend AB! Glad to toss about viewpoints with you.

  • kesmarn : Mammon would be material wealth, KT, I believe.

  • AlphaBitch : KT; I’m okay with whatever you are. You are a heck of a nice guy who helps us groove with the music on weekends when we have a minute, and I always have fun showcasing friends……

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AB- Fanny: Taboo Brit for the female genitalia! Of course it is also the short, familiar form for Frances.

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, I don’t even know what Mamonn is.

  • AlphaBitch : Jinx, CL

  • choicelady : Murph – do tell!!!

  • AlphaBitch : Murph – NO! Do tell. And I must do the open disclosure that my family was a bunch of slave owning plantation farmers. I have no control over my past, only my present.

  • KillgoreTrout : AB and CL, I am an atheist. I do not believe in supreme beings. I also don’t believe that I am 100% correct in my thinking. I do not agree with “activist atheists.” I feel they are missing a big point. That point is personal discovery. I don’t like it when someone says to me,”believe or go to hell.” I don’t believe in a one true god. I think the concept of one true god is the source of etreme misery in this world.

  • kesmarn : It’s the Nyquil talkin’

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AB-+– Does your family know what “Fanny” means in British slang? And since she from the Days of the Revolution….it is an important question.

  • choicelady : Murph – it’s OK. No grade.

  • AlphaBitch : Ha! Kes you are too quick!

  • kesmarn : Was your ggg grandpa Bennie?

  • AlphaBitch : Fanny Swell. Might be my new stripper porn name.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL-+– drawing a blank…..I do not well under pressure…..

  • AlphaBitch : Fanny did not fight; she just married my ggg grandpa. But her name rocks.

  • kesmarn : Fanny the Great!

  • choicelady : Murph quick – a Fanny joke awaits before AB leaves!

  • AlphaBitch : Oh Frennie! You see the marvel in this! Isn’t that grand? Maybe Grand Fanny?

  • kesmarn : G’night, Alpha Fanny!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AB and apparently you are leaving us with the tidbit about Fanny Hill….no chance to be clever…grrrr

  • choicelady : AB – Good night and sweet dreams!

  • choicelady : AB – anyone who gets into the DAR because of Fanny Hill is MY KIND OF WOMAN!!!

  • kesmarn : Are we gonna hafta call you Alpha Fanny now??

  • AlphaBitch : Poor Murph! Boobs, pregnancy, premarital sex and Sarah Palin. the Unholy Grail.

  • KillgoreTrout : AB, it should be just about the love, but unfortunately, that’s not the case in reality. Religions, or the difference between them set up the concept of, “the other.” Mankind is still afraid of what we don’t understand. We fear a differnce between religions and cultures. This is what leads to aggression and war.

  • choicelady : AB – Missionaries had to face the fact that all their work came NOT out of a profound belief they were right but a desperate fear they were wrong. They saw those they tried to convert at one with Earth, Wind, Fire, Water with all the animals and all that lives- and it put a lie to the tomes, the edifices, the rules. No one hates another quite so much as one who thinks the other is RIGHT when he is wrong.

  • AlphaBitch : I’m going to say goodnight, but before I go, thought I would share that my ancestor who gets me into DAR is my great great great grandMOTHER – a woman named – for real – Fanny Hill. How great is that??????? Peace out.

  • kesmarn : Thomas Merton said that the further along he got in his monastic life, the less he wanted to talk/write about it.

  • AdLib : It’s the quiet folks who always seem to be the most spiritual. Boasting isn’t as compatible with the humility of the earnest.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Are you guys talking about SARAH PALIN…really.. .I get a phone call and have to leave you and you take up one of my favorite topics.

  • AlphaBitch : Mammon, Mormon. What can I say?

  • choicelady : KT – you have that right. Pursuing Mammon is the new Holy Grail. Jesus’ teachings? Not so much.

  • AdLib : Religion is like sex, those who boast the most about being the most endowed and being hooked up constantly are usually not to be believed.

  • AlphaBitch : I have sat at the top of the South Rim in Big Bend and “seen” God. God is everywhere and with everyone if we just stop to listen. The reason it sometimes takes a church in the middle of nowhere or a 15 mile hike to “find” God is that all the distractions are removed. That’s all.

  • choicelady : AB – Palin doesn’t HAVE any boobs worth talking about! Nope. It’s about the fake pregnancy.

  • choicelady : AB – those are the ONLY rules Jesus had. People think that when he told the woman he kept from being stoned, “Go and sin no more” that he had a rule book. What he was saying to her was – keep your promise to your husband. You made the commitment, abide by it. It’s NOT anti-sex. It’s about faith in the heart to those who love you.

  • KillgoreTrout : The so called Christians how believe that wealth is the answer, completely misunderstand, not only the teachings of Christ, but the entire meaning of spirituality. They have been mislead by political influences that relate only to a material world and not to a truly spiritual one.

  • choicelady : AB – I will take it out, too!

  • choicelady : KT – only one thread of Christianity is rule based. The other is wisdom based and does NOT follow rules. Jesus said rules are NOT evidence of faith, only of obedience to old ways. You can follow dietary laws, sexual laws, etc. – but you will not find truth and inclusive love that way. So NOT all Christians believe that. Only the ones pounding the bible at 3 am.

  • AlphaBitch : So CL – no fake boobs for SP?

  • AlphaBitch : KT: The Abrahamic faiths do go a bit overboard on the laws. But Jesus had just two: Love God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind; and love your neighbors and your enemies. In fact, it’s just about the love isn’t it?

  • kesmarn : Has anyone ever heard of a war that was started by Buddhists? I don’t think I can recall one…

  • choicelady : AdLib – Palin’s hypocrisy is exceeded only by her greed.

  • AlphaBitch : CL: I was thinking it is time to re-read Lamb. I love you for that recommendation.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, Buddhism is considered a religion, but I heve points of contention about that. I guess it’s considered a religion becaue so many, many people throughout the word practice it’s teachings. But there is no supplication among Buddhists. There are no commanding principles. No heaven and no hell. I find this to be much more wise than all the dos and don’t’s and comdemnations that exist in Christianity or Hebrew or Islam.

  • choicelady : AB – I wonder how many people in that little town you have influenced? Hope it’s all of the congregation!

  • AdLib : CL – But wasn’t it obvious from the start what a hypocrite Palin was? Trigg aside, her hubby was part of an anti-American separatist movement, Bristol openly had an out of wedlock baby after premarital sex and meanwhile she campaigned about how she was a “real American” and believed in “family values”. She would have been more laughable if she wasn’t so close to becoming our Vice President!

  • AlphaBitch : There is a very old very quaint and very simple little church in Toyahville, TX. In the middle of NOWHERE. I go there whenever I am in W. TX and I always go up on the altar and open the Bible that is there to Micah. Then I go out and ring the bell. Google the image – it’s quite sweet.

  • choicelady : AB – that is probably the most popular verse we all use, no matter who we are. There is even a hymn based on it. It is just the foundation – and it is OLD Testament predicting the new.

  • AlphaBitch : “What you do for the least of me” is such a great passage. BTW – I love that you use the verse from Micah to open your meetings, CL!

  • choicelady : KT – for too many faux Christians the destination is wealth. They are so afraid because they do not live by Jesus’ teachings, and they are obsessed with money and know that is NOT THE POINT.

  • choicelady : KT – these days our Protestant folks embrace Buddhism, Tao, wiccan, whatever gives grace and love and comfort. We know we did harm as missionaries, and we need to LEARN not browbeat from others. Jesus’ message was all inclusive. We have to lead that way again.

  • kesmarn : BRB. Son is messaging me.

  • AdLib : CL – I mentioned before, there are nice and good people who are Scientologists but Scientology itself is a scam and dangerous.

  • choicelady : AB Brittany is Sarah’s daughter, but since she was promoting abstinence, she pretended SHE was having the baby so her own daughter’s sexual fling would not be revealed. She CANNOT release med records – there’s no record of her giving birth to Trigg.

  • AlphaBitch : L. Ron Hubbard was a narcissistic creep with major delusions of grandeur. Sort of like Dick Cheney, or Paul Ryan.

  • AdLib : Yep, Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. Even so, in the sense of following beliefs, it can be thought of in the same way religious dogma is.

  • KillgoreTrout : AB, you hit the nail on the head. The journey is much more important than the destination. I don’t even know what a destination could possible be.

  • choicelady : AB – I heard him interviewed. I have an acquaintance who is powerful in Scientology here and like her fine – but I know nothing of them. She gave me a tour of their building, and i was fine until I realized everyone wore black, and no one smiled at me at all. At ALL. From there I was just glad to get to lunch…

  • AlphaBitch : Really??? You mean Bristol (Levi’s baby mama?)? If not, who is Brittany? A sane named Palin instead of those whack names?

  • KillgoreTrout : AB, I don’t really Have a religion. At least not in the general meaning of the term.

  • AlphaBitch : I’m reading Gone Clear by Lawrence Wright. He lives in Austin, and once hosted a lunch for 3 of my “kids” to discuss the life of an author. The man truly is amazing. The amount of research just to write The Looming Tower (about al Qaeda, for which he won a Pulitzer) filled a whole room with library style card drawers holding the index cards from his research. Dozens of legal pads, all with a name and contact. Pretty incredible.

  • choicelady : KT – we try to adhere to that in everything we do. We see the damage done by sectarian hate, and we renounce it. Truth is a journey, NOT a destination. Who are we to say we are possessed of THE truth? We need to learn from everyone around us. No alternative makes any sense.

  • AdLib : AB – Not a problem, the practice with vampires is to make sure you put a stake through their heart so they can’t come back. In a figurative way, that should indeed be done with Palin. The hatred and greed inside her is corrupting her appearance, no question. Can’t hold all that ugliness in forever.

  • choicelady : AB – no the med records are because she is NOT Trigg’s mother. Her oldest daughter is. It’s “babygate” and it is something nasty. She pretended to be pregnant, but Brittany had that baby before the one she finally went public with.

  • AlphaBitch : True, KT. I have no problem with YOUR religion unless you start trying to make it MY religion.

  • KillgoreTrout : The wiset philosophyy, in my knowledge is the old Buddhist teaching that all religions must be respected. They are just different paths to the same end. Imagine how much more peaceful this world would be, if everyone adhered to such wisdom?

  • AlphaBitch : OK, sorry for the ad Palinum attack – but good gosh her hair looks dry and straw-y, and the pale lipstick does no good. I’ve always thought the whole medical records release thing was because her breastes were fake.

  • choicelady : AB – I read a hint to Heloise once from a woman who figured out how to lay down bread so that when she made PBJ sandwiches, the edges met. She was SO proud! Those life skills may seem minor, but in the press of the day, they matter. Good for her on sock matching!

  • AdLib : Kes – Damn, so sorry to hear about your losses.

  • AlphaBitch : The sweet thing about my friend’s mom (her name was Valda) was that – even in the last stages of the illness – she could pair socks like no one’s business, and loved to do so. Guess it was from having a hub and 3 big boys. Sock pairing.

  • AdLib : AB – Palin’s looks will be a slow motion re-enactment of the climax of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

  • choicelady : AB – THREE??? I AM sorry, and YES that’s it for now. For a very LONG TIME now.

  • kesmarn : Just lost a friend about 2 weeks ago, also. Very sudden. Up and about on a Friday. Gone on Monday. ARDS. “Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome.” Untreatable.

  • choicelady : kes and AB – people like Palin aren’t Christians. They are Dominionists. I call them “Old Testamentarians ” for whom Jesus is just a get-out-of-jail- free card. YOU live it. They slam it. BIG difference.

  • AlphaBitch : CL: AND a former beloved boss. OK, that’s 3 for me. No more now for anyone, hear???

  • choicelady : AB – I’m so sorry your friends’ mother died. Your ‘second mother’. It’s been an awful, awful week for death of those we love.

  • KillgoreTrout : Palin is desperately clinging to the very same “MSM,” that she has so denounced in her 15 minute moment. She won’t ever thank the MSM for her fame and fortune. Only for her failures.

  • kesmarn : Yes, for a while she looked like she was on a crazy Hitler-like ascendancy and I was freaking out. All gone now.

  • choicelady : AB – Being a “professional Christian” – well, Protestant – it pisses me off to be associated with the Religious Right. We are NOT, and I’m sick of them and equally sick of the lefties who THINK we ARE.

  • AlphaBitch : Palin’s looks are fading (as all looks too over time) so she will just look haggy.

  • kesmarn : You are MUCH more Christian than the Tundra Witch Palin, Frennie!

  • choicelady : kes – that Colorado defense was INSANE! The fetus is not a person if it impacts their wallet and is if it impacts a woman’s LIFE????? And they expect us to take them seriously? Institutional morality? You kidding? With Mahoney in boiling water in LA, there is nothing left of the church to hold up as a moral leader.

  • AlphaBitch : I still identify as a Christian, Frennie, but not many would agree. SMS

  • AdLib : Kes – Palin was a threat in her ability to whip up the haters but not as a potential leader. She was too wack and too many people knew it. Now what does she do, looking at the rest of her life as an anti-climax? I do enjoy that thought, knowing that she will shrink into obscurity, clawing in futility to get her 15 minutes back.

  • kesmarn : I still identify as Catholic, but I doubt that the church sees me that way… It’s sad.

  • AlphaBitch : Good CL. I listened to it yesterday; one of my friends of 42+ years just lost his mom to Alzheimers. She was like a mom to me as well. That song says it all. It takes time to learn……

  • kesmarn : c’lady, I was just talking with another Catholic friend today and we were saying how horrible that defense of the lawsuit was…the one that insisted that “a fetus is not a person.” What has happened to this once decent institution??

  • choicelady : AB – that is one of the songs I kept. It’s beautiful.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, lies and propanda have a shelf life.

  • choicelady : All – I have waded into the contraception mess. Our people who work for Catholic non-profits are getting screwed so I am fighting for OUR religious rights and rights under the Civil Rights laws. There IS a war on religion all right – and the Catholic Church is waging it. THEY have become the new George Wallace taking tax money then denying our rights.

  • kesmarn : I was just thinking the other day how menacing and formidable I once thought Palin was…and most of you were saying: “PHHHSSSHHH…s he’s a flash in the pan.” You were right! YAY.

  • AdLib : AB – We’ll just have to go out for lunch first before I lose my sense of smell.

  • AlphaBitch : CL: Listen to the song I posted in memory of Bito. The one by Maura. That’s a haunting one for sure.

  • choicelady : KT. Yes. They CAN be that blind and stubborn.

  • AlphaBitch : When will Marcus come out?

  • AdLib : Back in 2010, who woulda thunk it? Fox News crashing in the ratings, Sarah Palin fired, Rove imploding on election night then launching a civil war against Baggers…heh-he h-heh…just as I planned!

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, I can’t either, but their implacable hanging on to old ideas in a changing world is so apparent. They can’t be that blind or stubborn..can they?

  • AlphaBitch : Although one idea floated by some drunk friends was to make cat hair bombs and bomb the Taliban. Only women and children would get antihistamines.

  • choicelady : AB – I thought her absolutely lovely. She’s still pretty in her more recent things, and that VOICE! WOW! Thank you for turning us on to her – I’ve added a couple of her things to my YouTube list. I’ve never encountered her before, thank you!

  • kesmarn : “a la commode” :lol: Got that right!

  • AlphaBitch : AdLib: so visits to me and Kalima are out of the question,huh?

  • AlphaBitch : Crap happens. The End.

  • choicelady : ADLib – ouch – those allergies are AWFUL. Glad you have taken her in as a “yard cat” though!

  • AdLib : Hey AB! Just waiting for you to show up so we could wrap up solving the world’s problems.

  • AlphaBitch : Yum, some Ham Rove a la commode.

  • kesmarn : Frennie, yup. Problems all solved. On to Rove-bashing for dessert.

  • AlphaBitch : Hi CL: caught your message about Maura – thanks so much. I love her song – even w/ shoulder pads the size of Idaho.

  • KillgoreTrout : The GOP refuse to accept the fact that if they don’t change their core values, no amount of “rebranding,” is going to help them.

  • AdLib : CL – Nope, have an adopted cat who’s an honorary family member. She started visiting each day in our backyard and now is here every day. I am allergic though to cat dander so couldn’t have one in the house.

  • choicelady : KT – I can’t believe that the GOP think the ONLY thing wrong is ‘bad messaging’.

  • kesmarn : Good Lord! How cynical. To call attending a youngster’s funeral “political.”

  • choicelady : Hey AB – come on in! GREAT to see you! Just talking about Rove…

  • AlphaBitch : So…y’all solve all the problems yet?

  • choicelady : ADLib – both made in Buffalo. Wow – you’re keeping the economy there alive! Thanks!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I thought you did NOT like cats?

  • KillgoreTrout : Has anyone seen the GOP attempt to make They are still trying to alter the meanigs of words, to hide their true agenda”message, ” more appealing to voters?

  • choicelady : kes – OK. Marshmallow pizza. Uh huh.

  • AdLib : CL – I forgot to mention I’m eating pork rinds and drinking from the straws in my beer hat.

  • choicelady : KT and ADLib – I am shocked these rich RW hacks still give Rove any money at all. I think the GOP is so messed up it’s almost impossible to tell who they think can win and who can’t. Joe Walsh is back – screaming at Michelle Obama for going to that young girl’s funeral. She marched in the parade then got shot to death. And he says Michelle’s attendance is “political”. Says more about HIM than anything. These are the politicos the Kochs etc. seem to think are GOOD even though they tanked.

  • kesmarn : The weird thing is, this one time Karl Rove is actually right. Those people like Sharron Angle and Todd Akin were too crazy to be electable.

  • AdLib : Kes – Yep, know what you mean. I’m a dog person, I really connect with them (though I like cats too).

  • kesmarn : c’lady, my marshmallow pizzas have never been equalled.

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, all the possible end-of-life decisions a family has to make for an elderly family member are wrenching.

  • KillgoreTrout : cL. I find it amazing that he is not. His bullshit cost the Kochs and others to waste millions on his advice.

  • kesmarn : :lol: sleeping with the fishes! Between ticking off FOX and losing all the money for his investors in vote-rigging, Karl is on thin ice.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I’m proud of you for having a Barcalounger. Made in Buffalo, NY. Excellent evidence of no taste at all.

  • AdLib : KT – Yep, just don’t understand how dumb the Kochs and others are, to keep giving that failure Rove money, just because he used to not fail as much.

  • choicelady : kes – you must be a very interesting cook.

  • choicelady : KT – Not ‘sleeping with the fishes’. YET.

  • kesmarn : I’m alphabetical, which is why marshmallow is so close to mushroom in my mental filing system…and they occasionally get switched.

  • AdLib : So what do you think comes of this declared war by Rove on Baggers? Do the GOP Elite who are a minority in their party, succeed using their power and wealth to block out the Baggers or do the Baggers use their grass roots power to unseat the GOP Elite? Either way, I’m popping the popcorn, sitting back in the Barcolaounger and ready to enjoy the spectacle.

  • KillgoreTrout : I can’t believe Roves efficacy is even thought to be real, after all the money he was given to help win the last election. I think he’s lucky he’s not “sleeping with the fishes.”

  • choicelady : kes – were I not devoted to hubby, I’d be an animal hoarder.

  • choicelady : kes – I’m sort of a categorical thinker in ‘memory’ stuff. I was inches from sweetpotato…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- thanks I will read it.

  • kesmarn : She’s a real animal person too, AdLib. You know — how some people are just hard-wired to relate to animals.

  • choicelady : AdLib – it’s like when my mother in law was dying: hospice said it’s easier on the family to do that. It’s easier on the patient to drop dead. But when you have to CHOOSE to cause them to die – it’s the right thing, and it’s awful anyway.

  • KillgoreTrout : Any big GOP funder of any attempt by Rove, has to be a fool. Rove encouraged the big money people/corps to invest over a billion for the 2012 elections, and came up with nothing to show for all that money.

  • AdLib : Kes – Very sorry to hear that, losing that furry family member after having it as such a pillar of one’s life, is very hard.

  • kesmarn : Moss…Ivy…I can see the connection… :lol:

  • choicelady : Murph – IVY his name! «link»

  • AdLib : CL – There are cases where pets take a long time to pass away but as you and I’ve experienced, the quicker departure is a bit jolting. The suffering, their confusion…damn …

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I will look further.

  • choicelady : Murph – the doc was something odd like Mudd or Moss or something. He was very smart I think.

  • kesmarn : It looks that way to me, AdLib. What a spot to be in. (Heh!) If they don’t address their “loony problem” they’re in trouble, and if they do, they’re in more trouble.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…I went looking for that doc. Could not find a reference. I will look further. Maybe ask my doc.

  • choicelady : kes – oh I’m so sorry about the dog! What a week. I hope there’s a pet heaven where we can find them all again!

  • AdLib : Kes – But won’t it result in a greater and messier conflict within the GOP? Which is a good thing, of course, but isn’t he pouring gasoline on a fire?

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think Rove met his match in Ashley!

  • choicelady : AdLib – that was what made this hard. She was quite good Sunday morning, and immobile Sunday night. She tried and tried to get around – it was awful. She looked so confused and scared. I just hated it. They do have a sense of forever – and it doesn’t work. So horrible.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, Rove is going to get nowhere trying to be the “voice of reason” in a party that does not value reason at all.

  • AdLib : Rove sure looks to be igniting the GOP Civil War into being full blown with his declaration about opposing the only part of their party that has any energy.

  • choicelady : kes – no bells, no whistles? Sorry ’bout that!

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, that would be wonderful. I lived in Akron while I attended Kent.

  • choicelady : Murph – a doctor whose name I cannot recall back in the 50s and 60s said that was why we had an increase in cancer – we knocked out fever. He was mocked, but he had a lot of good scientific evidence. I have always let a fever run for a time before knocking it back. I think there’s truth in that. Good for her! I get wacked out at 102 though. And I have the unfortunate tendency NOT to get fevers at all, but let them go when I do.

  • kesmarn : The Fave has been grieving this past week. She was very attached to her grandpa’s dog — who’s been around for most of her life — and the doggy died on Wednesday. Tearful meltdown.

  • AdLib : SO how about Rove going after the Baggers AND Ashley Judd? Is he looking like he’s imploding or what?

  • AdLib : CL – When it’s someone else’s pet, it’s easier to for those who haven’t lost one to say, “That’s too bad,” and just not be able to connect with that feeling. Poor things, they think they’ll be with you forever, having no idea they’ll pass away. That gets me…

  • choicelady : KT – 78 was a VERY bad one. Glad you survived. I might be headed to a Kent State conference in April though in Akron. I will let you know if I go. Maybe we can meet!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes and CL… another one Wendy’s (my doc) basics is to do anything to raise your body temp (just do not exceed a safe temp- 103 in her book) because the higher temps kill of the viruses. SO she says hot showers while drinking hot liquids, heating pads in bed until covers while drinking lots and lots of fluids. I do it when I start to feel a bit ill and it works. She says that most of what we take for meds suppress the symptoms that actually are part of the defenses of the body.

  • kesmarn : Sadly, no, c’lady. I had to keep my itchy fingers off the fun gizmos.

  • KillgoreTrout : I have to admit, beside the huge inconvenience to mankind, I love extreme weather events. Nothing more beautiful than an undesturbed landscape covered in snow.

  • choicelady : kes – I can’t forget something that sounded like such fun. Whenever we were in Buffalo snows, there were calls for people on snowmobiles to come get medical personnel – neat! Now that’s a commute! Overall, an enclosed cab WOULD be warmer at least! Did they let you run the light and sound the siren?

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, it may have been 78. I think it it was, because I was attending Kent State at the time and 78 was my freshman year. My memory is a little like Swiss cheese.

  • choicelady : KT – I live by Vicks indeed. It works.

  • choicelady : Thanks AdLib. I remember how blasted you all were when your beloved dog died. It’s indeed a real part of your family, and it hurts. We really miss her a lot. And she WAS obnoxious sometimes, but very sweet and loving, too. Just hard. I’m so glad you got another dog – and we should learn all about what you chose! We’ve not really talked about it unless it was one time when I wasn’t here.

  • kesmarn : Whatta memory you have, c’lady!

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, Vicks made my colds and congestions go away, many times. Spread that stuff on your chest, a dab beneath your nostrils, a good warm bed, and whamo, the cold and congestion were gone.

  • choicelady : kes – I remember your ride with the fire department! You’d mentioned it somewhere along the way. The kid left in me thinks that ROCKS!

  • AdLib : CL – Just saw that you wrote this, so sorry about your kitty! It is so hard to lose a family member that’s been a part of your life for so many years.

  • choicelady : Murph – another good set of remedies, thank you. I have to say that since I have been going regularly to my ‘crunch’ (chiropractor) I have not been sick one single day. Not even after cross country or international plane rides. That’s ALMOST a miracle!

  • kesmarn : Murph, that is so cool! I am fascinated by home (mountain) remedies and medical history.

  • kesmarn : I had to ride with the firefighters to get to the hospital during one really bad storm some time back. Fun!

  • choicelady : KT – was that ’77 or ’78? New England got blasted in ’78 but I never knew how far it went. Either way, it is VERY different from a regular snow.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KES….my doctor, a woman, and an osteopath swears by this website for natural cures, and symptom reducers… «link» I have tried some and they worked for me.

  • choicelady : kes – we asked the vet if we could just keep her til the end, but she was so bad with kidney failure she’d have gone into massive seizures. Could NOT let that happen. But I’m Polyanna and STILL am trying to figure out how to save her. And she’s already gone. Sigh. Our little cat (actually big now but much younger) also misses her and is very needy. He will be OK, but it’s sad.

  • KillgoreTrout : CL, I remeber the blizzad. I had two cars, both clunkers, but they got completely buried by the snow. This was in Ohio at the time. It took me hours of physical labot to get them free.

  • kesmarn : Or a Nyquilini?

  • AdLib : Kes – Heh! How about a Ny-Tai?

  • kesmarn : Better than a Bloody Nyquil, I suppose, AdLib.

  • AdLib : Nyquil Colada?

  • choicelady : kes – oh, that is disgusting!!! Toothpaste? yuck.

  • choicelady : ADLib – Nyquil Margarita!!!! OMG!

  • kesmarn : I’ve been there, c’lady. I mean on the kitty euthanasia thing. But sometimes it’s the only humane thing. And YUMMY — Nyquil margarita sounds about as tasty as the kid’s snack I saw on YouTube the other day: Muppets toothpaste on saltines.

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, that would depend on how many toddies and how many shots of Nyquil.

  • choicelady : Lovely to see you, too KT – and to find out we are mutual toddy lovers. That and Vicks usually DO the trick. Sambuccus is great for coughs though.

  • choicelady : KT – Vicks is definitely available and does help HUGELY.

  • AdLib : Kes – You’ve never had a Nyquil Margarita?

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, that’s like saying my dog is gonna crap on the sidewalks. We can’t do anything about it.

  • choicelady : kes – I think toddies and Nyquil lead to headlines in the death column. Wouldn’t go there.

  • choicelady : kes – thank you. She was a pisspot and we loved her. Smart, sassy, fun – and gone. Very hard to kill something you love.

  • KillgoreTrout : Very good to see you CL! I always appreciate your presence here.

  • choicelady : KT – There is a world of difference between a solid snowfall of EVEN three feet and a blizzard. The wind piles up drifts of spectacular and unmoveable proportions! In the blizzard of ’77 in Buffalo, there was only a foot of snow added – no one got out for a week due to drifts. In ’85 we awoke to find snow IN OUT BATHTUB – the wind had driven in past the storm and inside windows. We could see NOTHING for hours, and it was SO cold our heat never came on – the auto dial was too cold. MAJOR big deal, blizzards. Snowfall? Meh.

  • kesmarn : The standard line from the GOP these days is: “If we can’t fix ALL of it, let’s not fix ANY of it.”

  • kesmarn : Do toddies and Nyquil go together? Somehow I think that might be a real combo!

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, Vick’s Vaporub is great for clearing chest and sinus congestion. I don’t know if it is even avaiable these days. Maybe hot baths and eucolpysis would work.

  • kesmarn : awwww…my sympathy, c’lady. That’s so hard. I think I saw that mentioned on the Twitter feed. 18 is really up there in kitty years. I know she’ll be missed.

  • AdLib : So is the Repub line going to change from denying Climate Change to saying we can’t stop it anyway so why try?

  • choicelady : kes – currants should help, too.

  • choicelady : kes – I’m with KT on the toddies. It doesn’t heal you. You just no longer care!

  • choicelady : kes – YES! If he made me look, then that’s super! We also had to put our aged cat down Tuesday, and it was hard. She was at least 18, and we miss her terribly. Every time I see my black purse or shoes, I think it’s Belle. Sigh.

  • KillgoreTrout : I lived in Borton during the 80s. We had snowfalls of two or three feet, and that wasn’t considered abnormal. I have lived through winter storms there that brought tress down. no crazy warnings and speculation by the Weather Channel.

  • AdLib : CL – Yep, plnts needed some water but the puppy comes in all muddy!

  • kesmarn : That’s interesting, c’lady. I have some dried black currents around here. I wonder if that’d be close enough.

  • AdLib : So, looks like we may indeed get at least universal background checks, yes?

  • choicelady : AdLib – glad you got rain. We got a little yesterday, but it mostly went around us to the mountains. That’s fine – waterpack is EVERYTHING these days! If you have your waterwings and pontoons, you’re good.

  • kesmarn : KT, I’m ready to try just about anything at this point.

  • choicelady : Sambuccus is mostly elderberry. It is a natural anti-viral and tastes GREAT. Liquid and tablets. It just seems to help. If it’s a placebo, who cares?

  • kesmarn : I hear you, c’lady. Maybe he “made ya look” from where ever his vantage point is tonight!

  • AdLib : CL – I know, it is a tough one to get used to.

  • choicelady : Oh crap – just looked at the lineup looking for bito. Damn. Going to take awhile to realize…

  • KillgoreTrout : kes, I’m sorry to hear that. I hope you will recover soon. Hot Toddies may help. Maybe some old fashioned Vick’s Vaporub! ;)

  • kesmarn : c’lady! We seem to be getting some doozy storms of late on the E. coast. Now — you have to tell me what sambuccus is!!

  • AdLib : Hey CL! Cold and rainy for us in CA but nothing to complain about compared to those in the way of Nemo.

  • choicelady : les – I KNOW you’re a nurse, but Sambuccus works on hack hack for me. Yeah – touchie feelie. It works.

  • kesmarn : Homie, snow on the ground here, and I’m dealing with one of those colds that leaves you hack-hack-hackin g with a cough, although not feeling bad.

  • AdLib : Kes – Haven’t heard from the folks I know out that way, assumed it would be a nasty time.

  • choicelady : Evening all – anyone blasted by Nemo? I see kes is OK and that’s a relief. KT? Anyone? Stay safe y’all – I went through the Blizzard of ’85 in Western NY. Brrrrr!

  • kesmarn : Not here, AdLib. I have two friends in NYC and one on the CT coast who are not having a relaxing evening tonight.

  • KillgoreTrout : hey Homie! How are thing in the great northwest of Ohio?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Thanks for asking Kes…we had some rain which was good for our water table, we had some very cold days which is good for the necessary sterilization of the ground soil, we had some warmer days which is good for ground prep…..so overall good.

  • AdLib : Evening Kes! Glad you’re Finding Nemo isn’t a problem for you.

  • KillgoreTrout : All this negative partisanship by the GOP fails to understand the difference between ideology and hard core reality. That is the GOPers biggest obstacle for the GOPers.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Murph, how has your week been?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hey Kes

  • kesmarn : Good Friday evening, gents. If I’m not mistaken I think we’re all out of Nemo’s icy reach tonight.

  • AdLib : KT – No kidding! Same thing with the anti-gay Repubs, they oppose equality and rights…until they find out their son or daughter is gay.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ad, it’s like disaster relief. No GOPer givees a shit about it, until they’ve been hit. Christie’s actions after Sandy speaks volumes. He sure wasn’t worried about partisanship when his state was literally being washed away.

  • AdLib : Murph – Don’t know what disaster it will take for us to get the political momentum to update and repair our infrastructure.

  • KillgoreTrout : Good to see you Murph!

  • KillgoreTrout : Good to hear Ad.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hi KT…and yes Ad Lib I watched the hearings.

  • AdLib : Hey KT! ALl is well!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hi Ad Lib…yes the news is dire but thanks to modern communication, social media, and the aggressive approach of the governors the damage will be contained. The real problems have to do with power outages created in no small part by our time weary infrastructure, and flooding if there is too quick a melt. So we will see.

  • KillgoreTrout : Hey Planet folk! Que pasa?

  • AdLib : Did you see the hearings this week?

  • AdLib : Hey Murph! Rained here too but Snowmegeddon is going on on the East Coast.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : No snow day here….but we had a bit of rain….need so much more….7 inches behind.

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” or “Snow Day!” when you arrive!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

Leave a Comment

Please Login to comment
  Subscribe  
Notify of