• AdLib : Night Sally!

  • SallyT : Good night, AdLib.

  • AdLib : That’s good to hear, Issa is such an egotist, it probably hurt him “real good!”

  • SallyT : I will try to be there for sure.

  • SallyT : Afleck really gets some good digs in on Issac and his investigating the attack on the embassy.

  • AdLib : Well Sally, looks like we’re closing the Vox Populi bar again! Thanks so much for doing the honors with me! BTW, we’ll be having a live chat for the Obama-Romney debate on Tuesday, hope to see you then if you can make it! Have a great weekend!

  • AdLib : Yep, he’s a sharp guy.

  • SallyT : I like that MT Governor, too.

  • AdLib : Night KQ! Take care of that back and have a relaxing weekend (I hope!)!

  • SallyT : Good night KQ.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Good night folks.

  • SallyT : She is only the interview guest, about her book. She isn’t on the panel.

  • AdLib : And Coulter?

  • SallyT : Schweitzer and Afleck shot Issa down and in the end he was pretty much not challenging them.

  • AdLib : I don’t know, I find it masochistic to watch Coulter on anything, might skip it tonight.

  • AdLib : That sounds like a nausea-inducing episode of Maher. I’m with you, why would I want to subject myself to such toxic waste?

  • SallyT : Ben Afleck is one sharp dude! He knows his stuff!

  • SallyT : But, he also has Brian Schweitzer, MT Gov and Ben Afleck and they saved the day!

  • AdLib : As for Tuesday’s debate, the bar is kind of low for Obama which is a good thing. All he has to do is look comparable to Romney in the eyes of undecided voters and he’ll look like he won. He’ll do more than that but just saying…

  • SallyT : Oh AdLib, I thought I wasn’t going to be able to watch Real Time tonight because he has Ann Coulter and Darrell Issa on.

  • SallyT : You’re right.

  • AdLib : Sally – But the racists are already voting for Romney. The undecided would have no reason to.

  • SallyT : They would vote for Romney if they still don’t like a black guy in the White House and that is their only reason.

  • AdLib : Sally – Same here, that was a bulls eye! Ryan and Romney keep talking down the economy, it was great to see them slapped down for their lying about it.

  • SallyT : I loved how Joe corrected Ryan on the jobs getting better last night.

  • AdLib : If we don’t need Romney to fix the economy, health care, Medicare, foreign affairs, etc…why should anyone vote for him?

  • SallyT : And, he has done all this with Repugs obstructions. Think how far we would be now if they had cooperated.

  • AdLib : Sally – Absolutely, bit by bit, if Obama plays these cards right, there is no reason to vote for Romney.

  • SallyT : That takes more away from Romney’s talking points, KQ.

  • AdLib : KQ – I hadn’t heard that, excellent news! And Obama will have the new jobs report to tout in the next debate, since it came out after tyhe first one.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think the good economic news is going to kick in at some point too AdLib just now I saw a report that consumer confidence is up to where it was in September 2007. «link»

  • AdLib : CL – Wise choice, I’d hate to take your money! Night!

  • choicelady : Good night AdLib, KQ, and Sally!

  • choicelady : OK AdLib – we’d put money on the Comeback Kid, but we’re not betting AGAINST you!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sleep well CL. Yup I won’t argue with that one AdLib.

  • AdLib : Night CL and I say again, I am confident that the story after Tuesday will be “Obama – The Comeback Kid”.

  • choicelady : KQ – I realize it’s not all Christie’s doing, but watching NJ do the GOP thing just proves Christie’s unfitness for public office!

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL so again that points out another big Romney lie during the debate. Yes Medicaid is a different story all together. There are fewer doctors taking Medicaid. But that problem goes way back to the inception of Medicaid because it was optional for states and they administer the program. Right now NJ pretty much privatized Medicaid which really hurt the number of providers available for example.

  • choicelady : Well THIS is a dismal way to end the evening, so I will say I’m rooting for the President to cream Mr. Romney next week and STILL basking in the glow of Bidenizing Ryan last night! May we all have a great weekend and gather together next Tuesday for more! Until then – sweet dreams, and a lovely weekend to all!

  • AdLib : CL – That is just so wonderful of you to help your neighbors but so awful of a system that subjects them to that.

  • AdLib : KQ – You said it. The mortality rates of seniors would skyrocket and the number of homeless seniors too. What do you do when you’re 80 and your medical care takes all your money…not to mention that privatizing SS eaves you penniless after the next inevitable crash. America would truly become a third world nation under the Repubs.

  • choicelady : KQ – hospitals have to take it to keep accredited. They do NOT have to take Medicaid I don’t think, but Medicare? Yes. This outpatient dodge is idiotic and ultimately won’t help them. And most reputable hospitals wouldn’t do that. So it pays to pay attention to where you’re going. In CA they ARE tighening up on Medicaid – you are being assigned to an HMO, and you MUST go there. It’s a real problem for my neighbors since their hospital is several miles away, and bus service ends at 8 pm. When the son has seizures, if he’s in past 8 pm, they can’t get home until 7 am. So they call me… Sigh.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yeah Sally that’s been a Medicare Part A and B problem already. But that’s something that can be fixed. The more people get use to controlling insurance companies the more power gov will have to make changes like that. Of course allot of it is going to depend who administers HHS as well.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh I see what you are saying AdLib. Of course the implications of that are even more grave literally.

  • choicelady : Sally – I never heard of that dodge that AARP talks about! It makes NO sense since the hospital would just bankrupt the person, get NO reimbursement, and then what? How incredibly venal and stupid.

  • AdLib : Night Sue! Have a great time!

  • choicelady : Good night Sue – sweet dreams!

  • AdLib : CL – Nope, Sherman is not cool and has on occasion taken the wrong sides of issues IMO. Not often but at times. Berman is a solid guy and always seems to be right on the issues. Sherman isn’t bad but Berman is better.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The worst talking point from the right is that cutting provider costs is going to make less doctors take Medicare. That may be true for some GPs but what cardiologist or oncologist can afford just taking people under 65? That’s complete BS. The biggest myth is that hospitals won’t take Medicare. That’s like a music store not taking musicians.

  • choicelady : AdLib – that IS what would happen to Medicare, and it’s the goal of R&R to make that occur. Disaster!

  • SallyT : KQ, there was something in AARP about the hospitals putting a senior down as out patient when they are really in patient. They are not covered by Medicare as the out patient and when they leave are hit with a giant bill. They tell you how to watch out for it and questions to ask not to get caught.

  • SueInCa : Ok night for good now sleep well my friends

  • AdLib : Seeya Funk! Enjoy that 5 layer dip as you watch the games!

  • choicelady : Sue – that’s so cool! I hope your work sells – it’s lovely!

  • AdLib : KQ – What would happen in a hybrid Medicare/Private system, where the Ins corps lowballed at first to lure away seniors, would bankrupt Medicare so it would simply cease to exist, not go into debt. There simply wouldn’t be enough money from workers to pay for seniors on Medicare. Medicare would be gone (since without funding from workers, there is no funding) and those with pre-existing conditions or not enough money would just have no health care.

  • SueInCa : Whoo hoo I did something over the past few years of retirement. I also opened my shop on etsy.

  • choicelady : funk – you are a man among men sitting and watching football. What sacrifice!

  • choicelady : Sue – just saw you’re up to Apple Hill, too – have fun! Hope some of the fall color is coming in!

  • choicelady : Sue – YES – CA forward. And you were there, my friend! All those transcriptions you did? It helped shape the outcome of 31! Thank you!

  • KQµårk 死神 : And like most things in the ACA CL that’s a change people don’t know about. It just kicked in that if a senior has a long hospital stay and is discharged, if they are readmitted within two weeks providers are fined.

  • SueInCa : OK that was my question CL CA Forward?

  • SueInCa : And Funk you are right someone has to watch football

  • choicelady : Brave Girlfriend! It is a good proposition! Done by the same folks we worked with on the gov’t reform package last year! Our feedback helped shape Prop. 31 – so you had a major hand in that! Have fun in Placerville – I LOVE that town! Enjoy!

  • SueInCa : AL I will catch it on the you tubes lol

  • funksands : I gotta turn in too. Night everyone. I’ve got to sit on my ass and watch football tomorrow. Someone has to.

  • AdLib : Sue – The video is no doubt on YouTube. Berman asked Sherman to get out of his face, Sherman locked his arm around Berman’s shoulders and taunted him. A sheriff jumped over to separate them but Sherman let go just before.

  • SueInCa : Well everyone I am going to hit it, have to drive to Placerville in the morning. Going to Apple Hill with some friends. Good friends good food and hopefully a bit of sun. Night all And CL you just answered my question on Prop 31 I voted for it

  • choicelady : AdLib – actually either Sherman or Berman is not awful, but Sherman is not, uh, cool. Berman has a very good seniority track record indeed. This “top two” run off system sucks, IMHO. Another “fix” that doesn’t. BTW – I am VERY Pro Prop. 31 and the reports about it are ALL WRONG. They come from a set of ego driven allies of mine who do NOT want anything to happen in the local area because they’d lose influence. 31 is pretty good – not perfect – and I like it for its real possibilities for communities and for smoothing out a lot of red tape that has made us the WORST state for deploying real help to real people. So that’s my political announcement for the evening.

  • AdLib : CL – It’s really insane to say that emergency rooms and sticking the costs of tens of millions of seniors, who cost the most to care for, wouldn’t destroy our HC system. ROmney is such a POS.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The way it blows up the national debt is Medicare loses a great deal of purchasing power when seniors pick private healthcare in their mid-sixties to early seventies. Then when they are dropped or insurance companies raise their rates when they get older and sicker they will end up on public Medicare. It’s the old 80-20 rule or actually 90-10 in Medicare. The public system will get 90% of the near death patients no doubt especially since you know Republicans will not put that burden on insurance companies.

  • SueInCa : Adlib I will sure look it up now. Something vague about two guys fighting but I cannot remember just what it was – senior moment

  • choicelady : funk – ACA has aprovision to RAISE provider rates and that includes Medicare reimbursements. The House has screwed that up for now. If we can get this plan in place, they can still strangle it with blocks on funding. It’s not over yet.

  • choicelady : AdLib and KQ – the Romney “medical plan” of ERs is a HUGE joke on him. That costs MORE than if you had ACA!!! And then yes you’d die – ERs don’t do heart surgery, dialysis, chemo, anything that is sustained. They patch you up and keep you alive to ship you OUT. Period. And it costs the earth since you come in more sick and leave less cured. The man is a freaking asshole to think that’s a “system”.

  • SueInCa : Funk I really voted straight dem. And CL I have a question for you but I will put it in an email about CA forward

  • AdLib : Sue, very cool! I should have applied for an absentee ballot! They are so convenient! But I will be there at the polls. BTW, did you see the video of Howard Berman and Brad Sherman in a tussle? They are vying in my district and though I was going for Berman before, I am adamant about it now after seeing what a jerk Sherman was.

  • SueInCa : LOL Joe Ricketts sure does

  • funksands : Great article on one of the really big challenges of reforming Medicare and preparing the ACA: Tackling what the providers are allowed to charge. «link»

  • choicelady : I’m proud of Rahm for that, but I STILL don’t want to talk to him!

  • SueInCa : Hey CL Rahm stuck it to Ricketts family give him credit

  • choicelady : funk – just so it ain’t Rahm…

  • SueInCa : Funk Romney of course

  • SueInCa : LOL Funk I know you are lying I just like an underdog except when they play my giants

  • choicelady : funk – Mike royko knew a guy who proved that any team with the most ex Cubs always lost. You had two and the other team had one? You lose. And so on. don’t know if it still holds true, but it was actually provable. Loving the cubs means you understand loyalty, perserverance, and dedication. Fine character building traits IMHO.

  • AdLib : KQ – I don’t know that it blows up th national debt, what it would do is strand tens of millions of seniors without being able to afford HC. Hospitals wouldn’t be able to afford treating them without insurance, the whole HC system would collapse.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Medicare was in big trouble but Obama did allot to fix that already.

  • funksands : Sue, who did you vote for? Wait, wait don’t tell me….

  • SueInCa : I am still hopeful AL I just have a quesy feeling just thinking that Romney would win. I never give up until the votes are counted and my vote is in stone. I voted today.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup America loves an underdog AdLib and a meme at that.

  • funksands : Choice, Chicago is on the line….they’d like to have a word.

  • SallyT : Medicare and SS are not broke but again last night that is how they were classified. You keep telling people that and you might scare them into thinking something has to be done to save them.

  • funksands : Sue, they are going to be real good in a few years. Real good.

  • AdLib : Sue, the good thing is that Obama remains in the lead despite Romney’s best week and he’s simply not going to have as good of a debate or week again. Obama’s turn to come back, that’s what the MSM is gearing up for and Obama as well. Obama will win the 2nd debate and will be “The Comeback Kid”, a scenario that the public loves as much as the MSM. And isn’t it amusing that the candidate leading in the polls will be “The Comeback Kid”?

  • SueInCa : Funk I have a soft spot for the cubs for just that reason. I thought for sure Baker would take them further but alas, it was not to be.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Exactly AdLib that’s what would happen. But just think about it can you imagine if you were a senior and had to shop around for your insurance. It’s preposterous on the face of it. It would be like an insurance bubble that would blow up the national debt.

  • choicelady : funk – then let them lose! Wrigley is REAL baseball country! Bad enough they put in night lights. We have a time honored tradition of cutting work to go to the game, and even WINNING can’t trump sitting in that crappy field watching REAL ball in a REAL park. LOVE it! And best hotdogs in baseball.

  • funksands : Sue, of course it is. And it always will be for the loser club that plays in it.

  • SueInCa : Curse you Funk LOL. Wrigley field is one of the best stadiums for ambiance I have ever gone to. Night BFF

  • funksands : Ad. Spot on. Slow bleedout in the tub if that ever happens. That’s why seemingly reasonable Republicans keep pushing it. It’s not a frontal attack, but one from below

  • KQµårk 死神 : :lol: really CL just pointing out the obvious.

  • AdLib : Night Kes! Glad you made it, hope you don’t have any trouble waking up tomorrow!

  • choicelady : ‘Night kes! Great to see you!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Crap sorry about the Nationals. After the Braves lost I hoped they would win.

  • funksands : Cubs will never win until Wrigley is torn down. The stadium is cursed.

  • choicelady : funk – there’s a losing underdog? I’m there.

  • AdLib : The truth is that making Medicare a system where people could stay on Medicare or go private is that insurance companies would first provide bargain rates, sucking millions of people out of Medicare, bankrupt its ability to continue, then jack up the rates sky high and with no other option, seniors would be owned and squeezed dry of every penny by the insurance companies for life.

  • SallyT : I have no doubt that the President will be spot on and ready next debate. Never doubted it.

  • SueInCa : Think about all the things brought up here just since I came about an hour ago. I think this country is in a world of hurt with so much hate going around. I think we are ready for something to happen I just do not know what. CL I like the Cubs too, best field in baseball, Wrigley Field

  • choicelady : KQ -0MG! The GOP lie? They’re hypocrites??? Say it ain’t so, KQ!!!

  • funksands : Night Kes. Keep it real

  • kesmarn : Great discussion, friends, but I’d better call it a day. Covering for a friend at work tomorrow. What was I thinking?

  • funksands : CL, you’re a Cubs fan? Somehow that doesn’t surprise me. :-)

  • choicelady : Ohhh sorry for Nationals fans! I’m a longtime Cubs fan. I feel your pain.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL it also points out the hypocrisy of the GOP they are for a hybrid system for seniors but say a hybrid system for working age people is a government takeover. Of course that was the lie of the year in 2010.

  • SueInCa : LOL Funk I hope the Giants take care of STL

  • choicelady : Sue – you are spot on. That IS why the dominionists infiltrated. Without MRFF and legal cases and rising up of a cadre of good NON Dominionist troops and officers, we might very well have been toast to our own military. Shades of Chile, Argentina. And fear of another coup in Greece a la the 1960s. We cannot stop being vigilant!

  • kesmarn : Oh, Sue, Sabreen’s husband is going to need some consoling on the Nationals thing…

  • funksands : Cardinals sold their soul to be this good in the clutch. Unbelievable.

  • kesmarn : Then you have a public school system that is deliberately underfunded and dumbed down and the products of it are prime candidates for enlisting for wars they don’t understand and voting for people who hurt them.

  • SueInCa : Sally Obama never makes the same mistake twice. And the Nationals just lost. Best record in Baseball and they are out of it

  • choicelady : KQ – Oh, OK I see what you mean. But ACA works for those who are working, and Medicare for those on fixed incomes. Any tilting of the balance – house falls down. Obama did a grand job of putting the pieces together but until 2014, it’s fragile.

  • AdLib : Funk – I think you’d see Repubs and Dems finally coming together against such a coup. Repubs fear government taking over their lives and Dems would be incensed by the killing of democracy. OWS would be like a picnic compared to the masses that would come out on the streets if any President declared martial law and ended elections.

  • funksands : Sally, Obama apparently apologized to the senior staff the next day for not being prepared enough. Good. That’s the reaction I was hoping for. “I blew it. Sorry. I’ll be ready.”

  • SueInCa : I hope so CL but I also remain vigilant.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Agreed they are different in that way CL but in the ACA some people get no subsidies so in a way some of that averages out. The real point is subsidies work for working age people but would NEVER EVER work for a population with a fixed income like seniors. That’s the way it’s much worse than the ACA because like you said voucherizing Medicare does not adjust based on income. I’m more generally speaking that their new plan has a private and public component where insurance companies will take younger healthier seniors and leave life ending care up to the public to pay for at a much much higher cost.

  • SallyT : Funk, I know that Biden respects the President very much but I kinda hope he said to the him, “Prez ole buddy, that is how it is done. Now go get him.”

  • funksands : Ad, looked like they learned the lessons their grandfathers didn’t learn at end of the 19th century

  • SueInCa : I know Kes but I cannot think of any other reason to proslytze the armed forces except to gain control and religion is a scary proposition for those who do not do as GOD would have them do…….

  • choicelady : Sue – I’m working this over with Mikey. Thank GOD they do not yet have the kinds of numbers and power that they seek. Mikey has had a LOT to do with that. It’s not over – and it’s not beyond the pale that they might attempt a coup, but the risk is FAR less than it was 6 years ago when they had almost total control over all branches. Now – it is significantly reduced! Bless Mikey and his obnoxious self for being such a pitbull on these issues!

  • AdLib : Funk – I’m not surprised at how the plutocrats have deceived so many into joining them. Most of their “army” are less educated, white, insecure, fearful and subservient to authority figures. They also lack critical thinking and practice the same blind loyalty to their preachers as they do their political party. Just tell them that Dems and Obama want to take away their religion and their guns, are for non-whites taking their jobs and getting benefits and you’ve got 45% of the population.

  • SueInCa : Kes because Hitler ridiculed them first, leaving them with little credibility among the Aryans

  • funksands : Sally, I think Obama got punched in the nose and woke up. He’ll be ready. When you’re President I think you forget how it feels to get punched. That’s why historically incumbents lose the first debate. Just a theory.

  • kesmarn : And yet, Sue, the story the RW is putting out is that people should arm themselves because of what they fear we will do if Obama loses!

  • choicelady : funk and AdLib – I agree with funk. If suddenly there were a “national emergency” after the 2008 election, we’d probably huddle in our homes and try to wait it out. Cheney would do that – Bush wouldn’t.

  • SueInCa : I am the eternal pessimist so I see the worst that could happen and right now with the crazies in the GOP – neanderthals for lack of a better word, I don’t think we are far from a coup of sorts. If Obama wins, what do you think the dominionists in the armed forces are there for?

  • funksands : Ad, I don’t have as much confidence as you that Americans would act that way.

  • SallyT : Well, as Joe B pointed out last night, the SCOTUS is up for play. We could lose it all with two more on their side.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, I’ve been reading up on that period, too. Primary sources show that there was actually a LOT of resistance to the Nazi party — from the Catholic Church, the Communist Party, the Jewish community — but all to no avail.

  • AdLib : CL – I was never concerned that Bush or any Repub President would declare martial law. That would instantly destroy them and their party, to try and strip away democracy. Americans may not protest much but if a President declared himself a dictator in essence and cancelled elections, that would be the final straw.

  • funksands : But I guess that was the case in the gilded age too.

  • choicelady : KQ – ACA is NOT a voucher system. Quite the opposite. Romneycare is – not ACA. ACA subsidizes on a sliding scale based on your income so you do NOT have a flat subsidy but a very comprehensive one up to 9.5% of your income to $90K for a family of 4. In voucher you’d be paying the WHOLE THING of $12-15K minus a small subsidy of $230 per person, flat rate. AND you would have a $5000 per person per year deductible. That is NOT ACA.

  • funksands : What’s sad is that all of this right-wing kookery is being driven by a small handful of incredibly wealthy plutocrats and their employees in govt. You’d think it would be easier to shrug it off.

  • choicelady : Sue and all – remember that the Nazis did NOT ever win a majority. Hitler crafted an illegal deal with the Chancellor to get himself appointed head of state. Upon that illegality the rest emerged. I thought of that in 2000 with the SCOTUS decision. We were that close I think. Not Bush per se but those behind him. I am very serious when I saw that what saved us in 2008 from martial law etc. was the fact that Bush is lazier than he is ambitious. And there was no one in succession. Whew!

  • KQµårk 死神 : BTW I was surprised no Democrat brought up the point that the voucher system Romney is proposing now is the ACA with a public option. Ironically Obama used the problem with the public option I argued that it would end up being an expensive high risk pool.

  • AdLib : KQ – Agreed, the Senate will stay De controlled and Obama will beat Romney. Thank goodness, if it was a probability that Romney would win right now, I would be genuinely worried about what would happen to this country.

  • SallyT : KQ, pray that Bernie Sanders sticks around! I count on him to protect SS.

  • SueInCa : I know Kes look at any state where they took over, regression is the name of the game universally

  • funksands : KQ, I’m with you there. Best they can hope for with polls where they are at is 50/50. That said, not much gonna happen for the next two years legislatively.

  • kesmarn : It will take years for this state to recover, Sue. Fortunately the courts have reversed a few of his disenfranchiseme nt efforts, but a lot of stuff went through.

  • SueInCa : It is Funk. I have read quite a bit about Germany and you are right.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think keeping the Senate is almost assured with these crazy RW candidates like in 2010. So obviously I factor that in when talking about voucherizing Medicare and privatizing SS.

  • funksands : Sally, no doubt.

  • AdLib : Funk – Well, the fascist right is trying to rise but they’re going to be hammered down like a Wack-A-Mole game by Obama and the Dems.

  • choicelady : KQ – GOPTEA has no real control. Yet. That’s what scares me – we are a razor’s edge, a whisker away from real destruction of democracy. We MUST keep the WH and try our best to get back the House and expand the Senate. We HAVE to!

  • SallyT : It has been somewhat surprising to me how far these TeaParty Repugs went as soon as they got in office.

  • funksands : Kes, its when people are the most scared, desperate and off kilter that the fascist message sounds sweetest. There’s never been an ultra-right government that has taken power in good times. That’s anecdotal, but accurate I believe.

  • SueInCa : Kes you see that in every state where a republican took over. I have no illusions. Hope I can sell my house. Costa Rica is looking pretty good.

  • choicelady : funk – thank you!!!!

  • AdLib : KQ – I would point to what Kes did, what K-Sick and Walker did when they got in, go for big change right away before anyone could stop it. The Repubs under ROmney would do the same IMO. But again, he won’t win and Dems will keep The Senate.

  • kesmarn : Right, funk. Desperate people always tend to look to the Bully Boy and His Gang of Thugs to deliver them.

  • funksands : KQ, I share your confidence. I am not worried about the Presidency at all.

  • SallyT : And, then there was the French Revolution that cut them down. pun intended.

  • SueInCa : Stl just tied the Nationals

  • KQµårk 死神 : Don’t forget all the promises this GOPTEA house made to the right wing about cutting the budget and they never delivered.

  • SueInCa : Funk I saw that same comment somewhere else today

  • KQµårk 死神 : It’s not optimism it’s actually knowing how cynical and hypocritical the GOP really is. They won’t do it because they don’t want to lose the House in 2014.

  • funksands : The fascist right always rises in times of great economic upheaval.

  • kesmarn : After seeing the total destruction on many fronts that Kasich and his gang wrought very quickly here in Ohio, I think the Full Disaster Romney administration model is accurate. They will do it. They will do it fast. And they will do a thorough job of it.

  • AdLib : Sally – Yes, how cruel is this guy to say, “If you haven’t been providing profits to HC Corporations right now, we won’t prevent them from denying you HC due to a pre-existing condition.” Yeah, real compassionate guy. Hope Obama hits him on that!

  • funksands : CL, the miners were great. Let me repay you with this: «link»

  • SueInCa : I have to agree with Adlib on that one, you certainly have way more optimism than I do too KQ. I see the beginning of the end with a Romney presidency

  • choicelady : KQ – I would normally agree with you about the GOP fail, but R & R plus the GOPTEA are a new breed. They MEAN what they say and intend to DO it. I don’t think, if they control the whole ball of wax that they would pull back. They are zealots – and we’ve NEVER been in the clutches of such people before. It CAN happen here. And they’d DO it.

  • AdLib : KQ – You’re more optimistic than I am in this particular case. I do think that if Romney won and the Senate joined the House in turning Repub, those Baggers would indeed pass a voucherizing of Medicare and privatizing SS and Romney would sign it.

  • SallyT : Exactly, AdLib, like Romney says about pre existing health insurance. You should have had it and not got sick. Too late after that.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The biggest threats the GOP creates is ending a woman’s right to choose, starting another war and corporatizing everything they can.

  • choicelady : funk – Southwest is a hybrid, but it works on many of the same principles. The Steelworkers-Mon dragon plan incorporates these different types of worker owned-managed firms, but central to all is the sovereignty of labor and the instrumentality of capital instead of the other way around. It’s catching on!

  • SueInCa : KQ I think you are wrong on that. They answer to the oligarchy and they want us to be serfs. THAT is exactly what has been going on on a small scale. You do it slowly and when the people finally wake up, poof it is too late. I see so many parallels to the late 1800’s in what is going on socially now.

  • kesmarn : Me, too. It was a gamble and the timing was (not their fault) unfortunate. But it all worked out in the end.

  • AdLib : Sue – You’re right, they wouldn’t. They’d strip away all the protections for Americans then when the economy crashes again, thanks to their stripping out regulations, they’d shrug off responsibility for all those “takers” who “should have prepared better.”

  • KQµårk 死神 : I mean the real reason Romney is not talking about cutting itemized deductions is because he plans for his tax cuts to go unfunded.

  • choicelady : Oh kes – that is GREAT!!!! I just can’t get over how well many of these things work if they are well established!!! I’m SO happy for them!!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Voucherizing Medicare and privatizing SS will never happen because the public won’t let it happen. Republicans will do what they always do. Talk about fiscal responsibility and cut taxes and spend spend spend.

  • funksands : Southwest. I hadn’t thought of that.

  • kesmarn : Wonderful, c’lady. Oh and I meant to tell you– you may recall I mentioned that Ford closed a stamping plant in Maumee Ohio years ago and it was bought by the former workers. Then the Crash hit and they had to close the doors. Well — they’re BACK! With the Obama auto bailout, they have work now. Drove by and there’s a HELP WANTED sign up!! YAY! I had almost given up on them.

  • choicelady : funk – yes, the small cooperatives but also large worker owned and managed firms. Southwest Airlines is one. You can’t ask for a better or more stark example.

  • SueInCa : I wish I were Casper. I would not be the friendly ghost

  • choicelady : Sue – Remember Leona Helmsley. Personal responsibility like taxes is for the Little People.

  • funksands : CL, has there been any small successes here like in Spain using that template? Is that flour mill in Vermont one of them?

  • SueInCa : Scuse my french Adlib but do you think ther is any way in hell Romney or any GOPig would ever accept personal responsibility?

  • choicelady : kes – when we were in Spain studying Mondragon, the industrial workers cooperative, the contrast is shocking. They have 83,000 people in 120 coops of all kinds with ZERO unemployment and continued profitability. They don’t TAKE profits at the expense of people and share hard times as well as good. They are THE model for the future! I am horrified at how little Spain is paying attention to them – they ARE Basque after all, so I suppose it’s partly that. But they survive and thrive as all else around them is crumbling and rioting. It’s amazing, and I’m proud that now I’m part of bringing it here.

  • funksands : KQ, because it didn’t break.

  • SueInCa : Kes they are in some respects although Cameron seems to be a bit different than our GOP. Is it not the tories that are so extreme?

  • AdLib : Sue – The Ayn Rand mentality of the Ryan budget and privatizing SS means that when the next financial crisis comes, millions of seniors will be thrown out into the streets and will be without medical insurance. I think that this RW future should be described to the public and certainly laid at Romney’s feet to answer (though as you say, he won’t be able to).

  • kesmarn : c’lady, thanks for that YouTube reference. I will definitely check that out. Some weekend on Saturday we’ll have to have “Labor Songs.”

  • KQµårk 死神 : Exactly kes that’s where I get most of my info too.

  • kesmarn : When you read Kalima’s links on Britain, it’s as though the RW there was operating by the same playbook as the RW here. Does Murdoch secretly run the world?

  • choicelady : kes – those are stories I heard all the time in the steel mills of Buffalo. People left and went into the dangerous, dirty mills because it was SO MUCH BETTER! If you go to YouTube and look up Rita McNeil and Men of the Deep, the tribute to miners will make you cry. Beautiful – her song backed by REAL miners in the miners’ chorus.

  • SueInCa : It is a hard balance between their livlihood and their environment

  • KQµårk 死神 : Dems know about GOP obstruction but another big reason the global economy has gone no where is Europe’s obsession with austerity with their conservative governments. You got to wonder why the whole world is letting the right destroy it.

  • kesmarn : Yes, Sue. That is a unique area of the country and those people are really waking up!

  • SueInCa : Kes it is amazing what those people from the holler know about energy. We watched a special on the coal miners and their troubles plus the land that is being ruined. Those people are fierce in their beliefs

  • kesmarn : My grandfather tried coal mining when he came to this country, c’lady. He said he had done hard farm labor before, but nothing like coal mining. He couldn’t stick with it. Came to Ohio and worked on the railroad.

  • choicelady : Thanks funk – bookmarked!!!

  • funksands : But I have a feeling this topic will have to wait until 2014

  • choicelady : kes – what a great statement! And it’s so true – coal mining is THE most dangerous job in America. Better jobs mean better family stability and community safety. I was in a coal town once – driving through – when the siren went off. It was horrible – everyone started running. HORRIBLE. I read later it was OK – but I will never forget that.

  • funksands : I think the administration is missing an opportunity to really expose these knuckle-foamers they’re running against by talking up the fact that they are the greenest, job-makingist adminstration ever.

  • kesmarn : She was a plain speaking woman from the “holler,” but she knew her green energy facts, funk!

  • SueInCa : Adlib that is a long silence no answer

  • funksands : CL: «link»

  • funksands : Kes, that’s cool.

  • SueInCa : Funk I agree on the green thing. We are so far behind China and everyone on green tech and we were always number one. Regressive republicans and wimpy dems not holding true to what the people want.

  • choicelady : funk – SERIOOUSLY????? I had NO idea! I have some hopes for clean coal (they do it in Europe) because I spent time in coal country and value the miners and families, but that is SPECTACULAR news!!! Can you find me a source????

  • AdLib : Here’s what I want Obama to ask Romney, “If you were to be President and you succeeded in privatizing Medicare, what would you do about seniors who lose all their money in an economic crash like happened in 2008? How will they pay their bills and mortgages and the $6400 they’d need to buy a health care plan?”

  • kesmarn : funk, they were doing random interviews in Danville, KY and they asked a woman about jobs for coal miners disappearing. She answered: “There will be better jobs for them in green energy!”

  • KQµårk 死神 : The polls were already stabilizing for Obama. Do people think there will be a small Biden bounce? I think so based on AdLib’s American Idol factor.

  • SallyT : Sue, he told everyone “it aint so”, they lie!

  • funksands : Biden treated Ryan with disregard. Which is totally appropriate.

  • SueInCa : Oh man I was stunned. I expected him to do the bulldog, but he was the pitbull

  • funksands : One thing I wish would get mentioned at some point by the administration is how solar and wind both now employ more people than the coal industry. I think that would be a “whoa” moment for a lot of Americans.

  • kesmarn : Wasn’t he magnificent, Sue?

  • SueInCa : I missed you all last night but I was so amped when Biden took off the gloves. He did perfect IMHO

  • SueInCa : Or maybe he would get Biden’d Kess

  • AdLib : Night Sabreen (I can spell sometimes!)

  • SueInCa : Funk I am going to try it again this coming week

  • AdLib : Nught Sabreen!

  • kesmarn : Hopefully he’d land in a big pile of malarkey when he fell, BFF!

  • SueInCa : 6-5 Nationals

  • funksands : Sue, its like a detective novel with extra sausage

  • SueInCa : Night Sabreen

  • choicelady : ADLib – yes, I recognize the cliche comic, but if Elvis were King, Romney’d have a cow in jealousy!

  • AdLib : KQ – Without the Senate signed on, the House can’t cut the funding for the ACA unilaterally.

  • funksands : Night Sabreen. Go Nats

  • SueInCa : Funk I am still trying to wade through it

  • kesmarn : Give hubby a hug, Sabreen. Good night!

  • choicelady : Sabreen – good luck with hubby and the team. You are a good woman to go to his aid. See you soon!

  • SueInCa : I would laugh when he fell though Kes

  • funksands : I finished the “New New Deal” last week btw. Great book

  • AdLib : Funk – That is an easy way to kill the ACA…and bribe his fellow Repub governors.

  • kesmarn : NO apologies, Sue! That’s the Mitt Way.

  • Sabreen60 : Well I think I should try to calm hubby down before he loses it. He’s watching the home team – the Nationals – and this is do or die for them. Have a good week everyone.

  • choicelady : Sue – wait until after the election to trip Mitt? I’d HATE for you to get busted by the Secret Service!

  • AdLib : KQ – I second all of your predictions for the next Obama term!

  • SueInCa : If I ever ran into Mitt the Shit on the street I would accidentally put my foot out and then apologize- no I would just walk away

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib supposedly GOPTEA congress can do that already since they hold the purse strings.

  • choicelady : funk – YES!!! And water too far away from the collar to drink!

  • AdLib : CL – That was my cliche stand up comic.

  • funksands : CL, I hope he gets one of those crappy cone collars too.

  • AdLib : Kes – Or, The Romney Barber Shop only gives haircuts to the middle class and charges them exorbitantly to pay for free stylings for the 1%.

  • choicelady : kes, Sue, Sally – if there IS a God (Dog?) MITT will be IN the kennels riding on the top of the chariot for all eternity, shitting every minute of the time.

  • SueInCa : Biden was right last night, your grandma is going to starving with no medical

  • Sabreen60 : Nite Murph!

  • funksands : Ad, all he’d have to do is simply send the money to the individual states no strings, and *poof* its gone.

  • KQµårk 死神 : BTW I think Obama will win too. But I think we just need to be ready for anything. I’ve already stated a few times an Obama second term will be a sea change in American politics like Reagan did in 1984. With the economy growing, Obama ending the war in Afghanistan, starting to cut defense, cutting the budget and Obamacare kicking in it will be a true American Renaissance without Obama enacting much legislation but I think he will get immigration reform through.

  • SallyT : But, he has the car for it, Kes!

  • kesmarn : They’ll tying those kennels to the tops of those Sweet Chariots, Sally.

  • AdLib : Funk – Yes, that’s my understanding. Romney can order HHS to shift funding away from the ACA and just smother it to death that way.

  • SueInCa : Damn Sally they would never put Mitt the shit in charge of the doggies

  • choicelady : AdLib – that’s ELVIS, not Mitt, unless he’s channeling THAT King…

  • AdLib : Murph – I know you’ll get your Biden on in the next week! Rest well!

  • SallyT : Kes, you sure he isn’t going to be in charge of the Celestial Kennels?

  • kesmarn : G’night, Murph!

  • choicelady : G’night Sir Murphalot! Sleep well!

  • SueInCa : Night MTS one night I will get a full night with y’all

  • funksands : Night Murph, watch for the malarkey!

  • AdLib : Funk – “Thank you very much! It’s great to be here on Kolub, really, you’re beautiful people!”

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well…I am going to call it a night….too tired to participate meaningfully…. take care one and all…GET YOUR BIDEN ON and let’s keep pushing Forward.

  • choicelady : AdLib – yes indeed, that every handy Executive Order that Obama is loathe to use but every Republican abuses.

  • SueInCa : No better stuff than Bob Jones who went to the third level of heaven along with Todd Bentley

  • kesmarn : I think the plan is for Bishop Romney to run the Celestial Barbershop. Specialty: Involuntary Haircuts.

  • funksands : Ad, he can do that through HHS right?

  • AdLib : KQ – Nope, via Executive Order, Romney can quash funding to support the ACA and strangle it to death financially.

  • choicelady : Sue – that makes me happy. It means they MAY be Raptured indeed! PLEASE fulfill the pin we used to wear: When the Rapture comes, will you REALLY go away?

  • funksands : Sue, that guy sounds like he has some great shit. Think he can hook us up?

  • KQµårk 死神 : No he’s president of the Cayman Islands.

  • funksands : Ad: «link»

  • Sabreen60 : Nite Bourne!

  • SueInCa : CL we heard a dominionist tell a story today that he went to heaven and saw the names of all the people he converted to christianity and god made him alive and sent him back. Oh to be a dominionist flying around in the sky

  • choicelady : KQ – I’m not sure the Senate can stop it without the fab 60 votes.

  • AdLib : Funk – So what planet did they give to Romney to rule? Urananus?

  • KQµårk 死神 : Obamacare is Obama’s Gitmo in that regard.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The senate won’t let Romney repeal Obamacare and Romney will use that as his excuse to keep it.

  • funksands : I’m not comfortable having someone who already has their ticket punched running my country

  • choicelady : Now Sue – you cannot know that for sure. Romney is weird enough to BE from Kolub. You never know… LOL!!!

  • SueInCa : I hate to burst his bubble Funk but he is not going up to heaven or to that planet they love.

  • AdLib : CL – I would say that Romney would not establish any national health plan. He may try to salvage a few things from the ACA but his big thing is, “The states should decide.” Most people will be left high and dry…and add in the block grant cuts to Medicaid and we’re looking at a national health care crisis. However, as I keep saying, that would only happen if Romney won and he won’t.

  • kesmarn : Well, I think he needs to go collect that throne pronto, funk. Forget a measly Presidency of the United States! Go for the Big Enchilada in the Sky.

  • KQµårk 死神 : BTW I saw a bumper sticker the other day ‘God deliver us from Obamacare’. It’s amazing how disconnected these people are from reality.

  • choicelady : funk – that’s the equivalent of being The Chosen or The Elect in Dominionism. I say let them claim their reward as soon as possible.

  • funksands : Maybe this has something to do with his seeming lack of interest in the day to day lives of the rest of us.

  • SallyT : Have a nice rest of the evening Bourne and a good weekend!

  • SueInCa : You are right Funk. It is a weird religion/cult

  • choicelady : Bourne – let’s plan on it after the election? I’m insane until then!

  • funksands : The second anointing is when someone very high up in the church is given their “heavenly keys to the eternal kingdom” while still alive. Essentially Romney is guaranteed his kingship in the eternal hereafter regardless of anything else he does in this lifetime. True story

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Night Bourne…Sue answered your questions.

  • SueInCa : Just call Bourne

  • BourneID : Sue and CL – I still want to meet for lunch sometime.

  • AdLib : Murph – In the end, I think West will lose too.

  • choicelady : Bourne – lovely to have you here! Be well!

  • choicelady : KQ – the mandate may stay, but his version is a disaster. He gives (a la Medicare) a small subsidy no matter what YOUR cost. For folks our age, esp. with pre-existing conditions, it’s at least $1000 per month with his subsidy of $230. YOU have to pay the rest. AND you will get the MA style $5000 deductible and NOTHING free for which you don’t have to dig into the deductible. Your insurance won’t be usable until after that – and if you get sick, another $10K will be added. So be prepared to shell out HUGE amounts of money – and make your insurance into catastrophic care. For you and your wife it would be $30,000 per year PLUS your premiums above the subsidy. THAT is the MA plan.

  • AdLib : Night Bourne! Have a great weekend!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Agree with that one AdLib that’s why it’s so important that Obama win and get credit for a better economy.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…West is holding on in Fl. Walsh seems to be a goner.

  • kesmarn : G’night, Bourne.

  • Sabreen60 : KQ, I don’t think Romney will win, but I do have my passport. I believe Romney will sign whatever rightwing bill comes across his desk. Geez, I hate even thinking about Romney winning. Norquist said all they need is someone with enough digits to hold a pen. Romney fits that to a tee.

  • SueInCa : See my note Bourne

  • BourneID : night all – great conversation tonight.

  • SueInCa : Mitt is considered a head of the LDS. If he were not he would not have had the positions he did and probably still does. They do not have ministers so Mitt was a defacto Bishop like in the Catholic church

  • AdLib : Do tell, Funk, what’s your new theory?

  • kesmarn : funk..tell all!!

  • BourneID : Hi Sue abd goodby Sue.

  • funksands : Did you all know that Mitt has received his “second anointing” already?

  • kesmarn : Bourne, with the Repub obstructionists, even a congress that had its Mo Joe Biden wouldn’t have been able to get much done.

  • AdLib : Bourne – Dems may not control the House in the next session but if Obama moves strongly ahead, they could take it back in 2014. I think the Dems will have a net gain in the House this year with a number of Baggers thrown out, like Allen West and Joe Walsh.

  • SallyT : Today I got an article from AARP about the myths about Canada’s health care. Very good article and really gave answers to all those stupid things that Repubs say is wrong with Canada’s.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think the worst thing Romney will do in a first term is help Israel attack Iran. He pretty much promised that to Bibi already.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- asking all of that for Bourne who is doing a bit of research and can’t find the answers

  • funksands : I have a new theory, freshly minted on the sociopathy of Mitt Romney

  • SueInCa : Hey Sabreen, Funk MTS and Bounre

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- do you know if once a Mormon Bishop, always a Mormon Bishop…what is Mitt’s relationship with the power centers of the LDS…is he bound by an oath?

  • funksands : Hi Sally, CL, Ad, KQ, Sue, Kes, Bourne, Sabreen

  • Sabreen60 : Hi Sue! Hi Funk!

  • BourneID : So, people, this is my last entry – have to go – but when the President is reelected, can we count on our Democratic congresspeople to fight for him this time? I don’t know how all of you perceived their performance in the last 2 years, but it was as if they were in a trance. Have they learned any lesson from the appalling governance of Boehner; a paralyze congress? I hope so.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh CL Romney will make Obamacare much more friendly to the insurance industry but for that reason too I think he keeps at least a soft mandate.

  • SueInCa : Hello everyone lot of peeps here tonite

  • AdLib : Hey Funk!

  • kesmarn : Hey, funk! Have you got Joementum?

  • funksands : Hi Murph

  • choicelady : funk! Lovely to see you!

  • SallyT : Funkie, about time!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hello Sue and Funk

  • SueInCa : Mormon?

  • funksands : Evening everyone

  • AdLib : KQ – Yes, you predicted Romney would win the nom!

  • choicelady : Hey Sue! Howdy! GREAT to see you. We were just Speaking Mormon and need your insights.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Again AdLib Romney is a snake. He will make sure all those cuts don’t hit until he’s reelected.

  • AdLib : KQ – Don’t see how Romney keeps most of the ACA, without the mandate, you just can’t pay for the other aspects.

  • choicelady : KQ – I don’t agree on that. Romney’s own plan was SO different from Obama’s that I think he would kill it in a second. He’d put his own version in place – and you and your wife will be the first victims. He really cannot give that Black man any credit or keep any of his programs that were and are so much better than his own.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib you did on HCR for sure. But then again you thought anyone but Mitt would win the GOP nomination.

  • SueInCa : Hey Adlib

  • SueInCa : Hey there Watson

  • AdLib : Hey Sue!

  • SueInCa : Yes BFF it was

  • SallyT : Hi there Sherlock!

  • kesmarn : Hey, BFF! Was that the Taibbi article on why Biden had every reason to laugh? That was a really good one!

  • AdLib : KQ – But Romney will slash social services, safety nets, education, regulations, the impact would be devastating…bu t he won’t win.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I even think Romney will keep most of Obamacare. He likes it no matter what he said to the RW. Especially since his other policies will add so much to the debt he’s gonna have to keep those $716 billion cuts even if he campaigns against them now.

  • choicelady : Oops – “Trust in God – but tie your camel.” As KQ says – be prepared for the best AND the worst. And RMoney WOULD be the worst.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, I know someone who just did a re-finance on her mortgage. She was able to find a local lender who said the loan will not be sold. Hope that lender stands by that.

  • BourneID : Hey CL..that’s a Murph thing…having my Biden on. I like it too.

  • choicelady : AdLib – we trust your instincts. But as the Arab adage goes:

  • SueInCa : Hello everyone thought I would stop in and say hi. If you have time catch the Taibbi link I just posted in OT, it is a really good short piece.

  • AdLib : KQ – I have a pretty good track record on predictions. And trust me, it has nothing to do with my time machine.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…the GOP always accuses the Dems of being Tax and Spend, but the truth is that the greater threat is the GOP’s Spend and Borrow.

  • choicelady : AdLib and kes – I am really worried. We were going to refinance our house and save about $132 a month, but we are now with our credit union, and I do not want to go outside to a regular, unknown lender who can upstream our mortgage to who knows whom. So we are staying put = and paying our broker a few hundred for his work. I am sorry to cheat him out of that, but I WANT SECURITY right now!

  • AdLib : CL – I don’t know about that. I find Meghan McCain so shallow and ignorant about the real facts. She seems very self-involved, everything is so personal and emotional, she sounds like a spoiled little girl who is as manipulative as her dad.

  • BourneID : CL I like Meghan. She has spirit and it takes guts to push agaisnt the arrogance and intolerance of the Repubs. I liked her book, Dirty, Sexy Politics – about his campaign. I especially liked what she revealed about Palin. She is young enough not to think too much about the image of the campaign or whatever. She’s been a good guest of Rachel Maddow.

  • KQµårk 死神 : See I know Romney is a liar. He will cut taxes and not cut spending or tax deductions. That’s what Republicans do. Even the increase in military spending will be a bit of a stimulus.

  • kesmarn : “loose” not “lose” (Wall St. never loses.)

  • choicelady : KQ – May the Biden be with you?

  • kesmarn : I think he would totally turn Wall Street and the banks lose to do a repeat of what they did under Dubya, KQ. And when the safety net is shredded totally millions will fall into truly dire poverty.

  • AdLib : Kes – Yep! The only way the next four years continue to get better is if Obama is re-elected.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I’m holding you to that guarantee. I prepare for any eventuality. My life experience just tells me you have to be read for the best and worst.

  • SallyT : Yes, Bourne, I know what you mean. The first question anyone asks you there is, “Are you of the faith?” If no, they are done with you.

  • choicelady : Sally and AdLib – I’m just positing that Meghan McCain might be pulling back, tightening her conservatism not because that’s the real Meaghan but due to her father’s increasing weirdness. Would not surprise me it’s loyalty to him is all I’m saying. I’m not heavily vested in her or defense of her – it’s just curious that she narrowed as he narrowed.

  • AdLib : CL – You’re right, if Romney won, and he won’t, we would be launched into a major recession as he slashed funding for social programs, the poor, killed the ACA, cut taxes for the wealthy and raised them on the middle class. The Great Depression Obama saved us from would be brought to us all courtesy of Romney.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : THE BIDEN IS STRONG IN THIS ONE…the next catchphrase with all the nostalgia for Star Wars

  • KQµårk 死神 : Kes I don’t think he can because he won’t do anything that will affect the first few years. But his policies for 2016 and beyond will be a total disaster for sure. Unfortunately just like Bush it will be too late.

  • kesmarn : Jinx, c’lady. We just said the same thing about Romney’s potential for disaster-creatio n.

  • choicelady : Bourne! GREAT description – “your Biden is on full force”!!!

  • kesmarn : KQ, I think Romney could make 2012-2016 a total disaster. (God forbid he gets elected). He could quickly undo everything it’s taken the Prez 4 years to do.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- your doing great.

  • choicelady : KQ – 2012-16 will be better if and only if the Dems have control. I predict – seriously – if Romney wins that we will be back in double digit recession/depres sion within the year.

  • SallyT : AdLib, I have to agree with you on Meghan McCain. At first I sort of liked her but as time has gone on, her true self has appeared.

  • AdLib : KQ – Romney will not be President. I guarantee that.

  • BourneID : Murph, I like to read along too but I can’t seem to stop my mouth tonight! My Biden is on full force.

  • choicelady : Oh AdLib – ohhhhh. That was AWFUL. Thanks!

  • BourneID : Sally, I hit the dang return key again. When i worked for the uS Gov, I travelled to Oklahoma, TX, Alaska and other places. Most of the flights were booked on Delta so there were stopoers in SLC. I was completely fascinated watching the people who worked in the terminal – it was as if they were in motion but didn’t have a destination. Do you know what I mean?

  • KQµårk 死神 : The worse part is 2012-2016 is going to be much better for what Dems did and Romney will steal all the credit.

  • AdLib : CL – Join the Kolub.

  • AdLib : CL – I didn’t buy into Meghan McCain’s “maverickism” any more than I did her father’s. She saw it was a useful tool for her father and just mimicked it. She seems so hollow and superficial, like her mom.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL this liar Romney will never be my president no matter if he steals it or not. He has proven to have the worst character since Nixon to run for office. As much as I hated Bush and Reagan at least they had some center for what they believed. Romney just looks at the country like balance sheet and something that needs to be leveraged.

  • SallyT : The Mormon religion believes in only helping their own and they do a great job of it. Romney’s attitude towards aid to the needy is that should come from your family or church. That will be his attitude as President. Now, I do know from living there that many took aid from the Mormon Food Storage and also got food stamps from the government. Of Course they won’t admit to it.

  • BourneID : Sally,

  • choicelady : ADLib – I’m thinking a coup on Kolub…

  • BourneID : CL it appears that the church has convinced him from early teens that he is the chosen one who will deliver the country to the church – this is what I’ve read. I know very litle about the church.

  • choicelady : Bourne – I noticed McCain’s daughter Megan (?), whom I kind of like, is hardening her positions as her father gets more senile. I think she can’t defend him AND be as independent as she has been before. It’s too bad – she was the real maverick in the family!

  • AdLib : CL – Er…isn’t God King of Kolub? Romney may have to settle for CEO of Kolub.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne I am…reading along…sometime s that is really cool….

  • choicelady : I say we offer Mitt an alternative to the US presidency: King of Kolub!

  • BourneID : CL, it’s the arrogance of their assuming to speak for this country. They were invited to the conference. They did not represent the country. McCain is no longer the maverick – is seems to be approaching at a milk for of dementia. He’s still bitter.

  • choicelady : Bourne – when JFK had to assure everyone he put country first, we should make that same requirement of Romney. Problem is – I’d never trust him. I think his commitment is ALL to Mormon principles. Ask this – in ANY of his stories of good deeds, does anyone ever figure in who is not either a super rich neighbor (Marriott) or a Mormon? Did he donate to a charity OTHER than his church? The answer is NO. We see not a shred of evidence that he cares a fig about anyone outside his sphere of experience, and his oaths to God do come first. You are right to be worried. Sue can tell you more detail, but this man has no love of country – only of Mormon land.

  • SallyT : Bourne, I wouldn’t believe Romney if he said his religious belief would or wouldn’t interfere with his presidency because I am sure it would be different each time he was asked. However, from living in SLC, UT for 8 years, I can tell you that it will.

  • Sabreen60 : Hi Sally!

  • AdLib : Hey Sally!

  • BourneID : Murph, are you still here?

  • AdLib : CL – When Romney mentions Libya, Obama should reply, “Look how Romney responded to an American crisis. He acted rashly without the facts and politicized it at a time when all good Americans should come together to respect and grieve for our fallen fellow Americans and heroes. Is that the man you want in the White House when the next crisis happens?”

  • BourneID : I need to talk to you and Sue about Mormonism. I’ve asked a question that I’d like an answer to. Will Mitt’s oath to the Mormon Church supersede the oath of office should he win the presidency? Can he place the interests of the country above his commitment to the church? This worries me a great deal.

  • choicelady : Hey Sally! No we have been waiting for YOU before solving all the problems. We need your insights.

  • kesmarn : Sally, hola! Almost!

  • BourneID : CL

  • SallyT : Good evening everyone. Have you all solved the evils of the world tonight?

  • choicelady : Bourne – I did not see any of that about McCain et al. I would think it comes perilously close to a violation of the Logan Act – albeit NO one has ever been prosecuted under that act in its 200-plus year history, but maybe NOW is the time. Private policy making is illegal – and at least the C Street people should be prosecuted, and if these senators were undermining the US policy, they need to be STOPPED.

  • AdLib : KQ – Agreed, the expectations are huge on Romney now and there’s just no way he can have the same 1st Debate in the 2nd Debate with a prepared Obama…and on foreign policy. Hope Obama corners him on what he would do differently in Iran and Afghanistan because we know that they have no answers.

  • BourneID : Speaking of foreign policy, is anyone as annoyed as I about McCain, Graham and Lieberman attending a conference in Italy, to which they were invited, comprised of international business people and politicians. They first visited the Middle East then went to the conference. Why were they there? During the visit, McCain was asking attendees to try to pressure Pres Obama to provide help to Lybia. That is the job of the Executive Branch; specifically, Hilary’s job. Who are these people? Why do they make overseas trips? What is the purpose? Have any of you read this?

  • AdLib : Sabreen – Yes, Joe kept his focus and explained things in an easy to grasp way. I could hardly follow Ryan with his nerdy pattern of speech.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think Romney will double down on Libya, lie his head off, and insist that Iran has nukes. It won’t matter what the president says to HIM, so Obama has to talk to the people and tell the truth. ALL of the truth – Biden got a major win on the cutting of money for security by the House, but that has to be laid on Romney’s doorstep, too. His pounding the table for ANOTHER war with Iran – and the president needs to remind him where and when he said that – is a very solid point. But Romney will deny he said anything awkward, accuse Obama of weakening our credentials overseas, and say he allowed Al Q’aeda to kill our people. If he says ONE WORD about Glen Doherty with whom Mikey Weinstein worked and we all knew, I will leap through the screen and strangle the bastard. He did NOT know Glen. He’s lying, and Glen’s folks have told him point blank NOT TO USE GLEN as a political football.

  • kesmarn : Yes, Sabreen, looking at the camera really worked for Biden. Like when he asked: “Seniors, do you feel you’re being deprived of choices on Medicare now?”

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think Obama will definitely win foreign policy and should win the whole debate. Now expectations are an anchor around Romney’s neck.

  • AdLib : Personally, I am just as confident that Obama will win on Tuesday as I was that Biden would win last night. Obama is now the underdog and expectations are low. Romney has to match his “victory” in the first debate or he will come off as underperforming. Obama gains energy from being surrounded by real people so a town hall debate will energize him and be an obstacle for the non-human Romney. And Romney will just be going back to the well on lying about his plans as not being what they are, Obama won’t be blindsided and the public should start to catch on…with Obama’s help.

  • Sabreen60 : I liked the way Biden ended,also. He looked in the camera and asked the American people, “whom do you trust”. Republicans have always hated Medicare and Social Security. I really hope people paid attention to the substance and not only the style. I was also glad that Biden didn’t let himself get pulled down in the weeds of these issues, but simplified them so that people who haven’t been paying attention could understand.

  • kesmarn : The only discernible foreign policy I see with R-R is interminable war in the ME. They seem to crave it.

  • choicelady : OK Bourne – now we really DO have to have lunch. This is all stuff I want to hear! LOL!!!

  • AdLib : Anyone think that Romney will win the next debate…which is focused on foreign policy as well as domestic policy? And is a town hall styled debate?

  • AdLib : Bourne – Sounds quite amusing!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cheers Sabreen ;-)

  • choicelady : Bourne – GREAT story!!! What an adventure! I have nothing remotely to compare that to – not even getting mugged on the escalator in Madrid’s Metro and having NOTHING happen because we were prepared. I was hollering at the guy and then his accomplices, but it was because my husband’s pockets were empty that we lost NOTHING. It was actually kind of funny after it was over.

  • kesmarn : KQ, I think one of the most powerful moments was when Biden said: “Stop talking about how much you care about people and DO something!”

  • Sabreen60 : KQ, I find that I am constantly re-tweeting you.

  • BourneID : AdLib, that is only one of many. I have had a really amazing life. One day I’ll tell you about purchasing a car in France. I was still in Morocco; drove an Oldsmobile convertible; bought a Renaul and that whre the story starts. I also completely trashed a fabulous, elegant New Year Eve party in Casablanca hosted by one of the Embassy officers. Steven Spielberg could not have done a better job than I.

  • AdLib : CL – Exactly and this is where I feel that the RW view of life at conception is proven by their own behavior as BS. No funerals for a miscarriage, God kills babies, none of it holds together with that concept.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib Biden p’wnd the kid no doubt. I don’t think any spin changes that.

  • kesmarn : “Pre-dead”! Love it, C’lady!

  • AdLib : Sabreen – I think that to any reasonable person, those facts about Biden and Ryan were obvious. Ryan looked like a young twit mouthing well programmed and rehearsed BS then clueless when asked a question that he didn’t have a memorized answer for. Joe was owning the debate and happily and intelligently answered every question…and every lie of Ryan’s, with facts.

  • kesmarn : Hey, I don’t see any typos, Sabreen! That was my feeling, too. Biden owned the debate from start to finish. I loved it when he mentioned that Ryan had sent begging letters, asking for stimulus money and then had the gall to diss the stimulus.

  • choicelady : kes – yes, we used to twit them on the clinic lines as we left to go have breakfast of “unborn chickens”. If you reckon everything by what it is NOT, then all we are is “predead” people.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Hey Sabreen!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I’ve always wondered. We don’t provide funerals or even real baptisms for early stage miscarriages. Why is an aborted embryo/fetus suddenly a “real” person when we don’t think a miscarried one is?

  • AdLib : Bourne – That’s a pretty wild story, enjoyed it!

  • Sabreen60 : Kes, I’m kinda of a wimp. I admit to not watching the first part of the debate, but read comments on Twitter. Once I read all the positive comments re Biden, I felt brave enough to watch. I loved Biden. He spanked Ryan. I felt as though Biden was at the adult table and Ryan was at the children’s table. Seriously, though Ryan was out of his league. He couldn’t give details on his tax plan; his lack of foreign policy knowledge was breathtaking and he let women (and men) know that he wants to control women’s bodies. BTW, excuse the typos, I’m not editing tonight- not that I usually do. :D

  • AdLib : CL – And when a woman has a miscarriage, does Ryan believe that God killing a baby?

  • choicelady : KQ – that is an important find. I had no idea it was such a small percent of the tax overall. So it’s back to favoring the poor AND hurting the middle and working families by cutting their mortgage deductions, etc.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Here’s the link to that article. «link»

  • kesmarn : “Personalize the egg”?? Oh my. What do these people eat for breakfast? Do they think of those unfertilized eggs as aborted chickens?

  • BourneID : CL, there are some foods native to Spain that I like, but I agree most I’m not fond of. When I worked in Morocco, I used to drive from Casablanca to Tangier (can you believe the exotic names of these places?) and took the ferry across the Mediterranean – loaded the car on – and spent one 3-day weekend a month there.The Spanish Riviera was as wonderful as the French but was not fully developed. I drove from Germany to Morocco, crossed over the Pyranees; it was dark; my niece was with me; searched for a place to stay; saw a small tavern and when we walked in, everthing went dead silent. There were several men at the bar. The lady owner came in in our limited Spanish and he limited English we got a room. We went in, she closed the door and locked it. OMG – we’re going to die. Shortly thereafter, he daughter who spoke quite good English knocked on the door then explained that we didn’t have to worry; we will not die, but they wanted to keep us safe because her mother tavern was a brothel…OMG the value of speaking another languga…

  • AdLib : KQ – I heard someone on NPR today trying to explain why so many people watch the debates but don’t pay attention to the campaign. He proposed that it is the American Idol Effect. Americans have become accustomed to watching sports and talent competitions where they watch a head to head and then a winner is determined. With that kind of shallow thinking, it sure makes sense to see the reactions and determinations after the first Obama-Romney debate.

  • choicelady : Bourne – I agree about “Beanie”. Hey – we saw my granddaughter at 10 weeks, too. So what? We ALL know these things – and when your baby is highly wanted and desired, that’s joyful and glorious, and when it’s the outcome of bad times/circumstan ces/conditions it’s up to the woman to make the decision about whether the “bean” becomes a person whom she can take care of. NATURE makes sure there is no development beyond basics at this stage anyway – spontaneous abortion is VERY common – but making out this embryo to be more important than the woman is disgusting. Ten years ago Judy Brown of American Life Leagues said, “We’re going to have to personalize the egg” – and they are desperately trying to DO that. Disgusting.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I just saw a study today that if you cut ALL tax deductions that it only pays for a 4% across the board tax cut. I hope Obama comes prepared with that.

  • kesmarn : I’ve noticed that mean people are always good at being sentimental. Not kind. Just sentimental. The “beanie” thing was unimpressive.

  • AdLib : Sabreen, I don’t like O’Donnell’s angle on this, trying to make excuses for why we don’t need Obama to beat Romney in a debate. Yes we do an the way I score debates, he won the first one because his opponent lied constantly. Watch the second debate on Tuesday (and feel free to join us here for a live chat during it!), Obama will categorically win that debate now that Romney has shown his hand.

  • KQµårk 死神 : More than the 1st presidential debate I mean.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Wow just saw that 54.1 million saw VP debate. That big turnout should help. I would not be surprised if more people see the 2nd presidential debate based on those numbers.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : bourne…beanie. ..how cute…and it is, but it is pandering to promote it in public as a reason to lay your religious moral code on one and all.

  • choicelady : Hi SAbreen! Yes, O’D is the only one with gumption and standards! “Winning” is about style ONLY. When you lie every inch of the way, it kinda takes the sparkle off the win, doncha think?

  • kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen! Good for O’Donnell. What did you think of Biden?

  • AdLib : Hey Sabreen!

  • BourneID : murph, re Ryn – he and his wife nicknamed their little girl “Beanie” because when they saw the ultrasound she was shaped like a bean. You know what? That is the kind of event that I think should be personal betwen the husband and wife. I was completely unmoved by his story.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Agreed AdLib.

  • AdLib : Kes – If Obama was sick, he would never say that because it would look like a desperate excuse. That is a possibility.

  • kesmarn : Town Hall will definitely work better for the Prez.

  • Sabreen60 : Hi folks. Just stopped by to say hello. I’m on hubby’s computer, because he’s working on mine & I don’t like the laptop. Anyway, I have to TV on (yuk) but did hear Lawrence O’Donnell say that we are not electing a Debater-in-Chief . We are electing a Commander-in-Chi ef. Lawrence was one of the very few who refused to call lying Romney the winner last week.

  • choicelady : AdLib – wow. First your mom is GREAT but second, that’s an amazing insight. Wonder what it might be?

  • AdLib : KQ – The town hall format is great for Obama, not as good for Romney. Obama will win this one, he knows that Romney will lie and say the exact opposite about everything, now he’ll be prepared.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, that’s interesting! I wondered about that as well. He looked like a man carrying a heavy burden that he couldn’t talk about.

  • choicelady : Bourne – they can save my soul when they prove – PROVE – they HAVE one they’ve also saved. And pitching for the rich, dissing the poor, faving corporate interests all proves to me they have no soul and haven’t been saved at all. Actually – they still can’t save my sould. Not their business.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL and leaving a decision about woman’s health up to male dominated legislatures is just a disaster waiting to happen.

  • AdLib : Kes – My mother who works the phones for the Obama campaign (proud of her!) thinks that Obama may have had something confidential that he was dealing with in the day or days leading up to the debate and was drained and not well rested for that reason. Could be but we’ll never know.

  • choicelady : kes – that may well have been true, but I also think he’s a gentleman, and he was totally gobsmacked by Romney’s Reversal of Fortune and lying about absolutely EVERYTHING. That may have been a weakness of doing debate trials with Kerry who is as self contained as Obama – they should have done it with someone like James Carville, but he’s NOT inclined to help…

  • kesmarn : I’ve also thought that Biden’s smile and laughter was a choice, too. If he’d looked grim or irritated, he would have come off as the grumpy old man vs. Sparky Young Ryan. “Get off my lawn.”

  • BourneID : CL; agree about Biden permitting people to make their own decisions. Thet is what reasonable people do. The problem I have with the religious right is that they not only want to force their beliefs on us, they also think it’s their business to save our souls.

  • kesmarn : I’ve wondered all along if the Prez might have been ill that night. Naturally they could never have just come out and said that because it would have looked like a pre-arranged excuse for whatever might have happened — a pre-emptive cop out. But what if he really was sick?

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL the town hall format will mute things a bit as well.

  • choicelady : Murph – I figured it all went together, the name, the man, the love of surfing.

  • AdLib : Kes – Obama will not be as aggressive as Biden IMO, he won’t laugh too much but I think he will shake his head a lot, using a signal just as Biden did that Romney is a liar. He will probably be far ore persistent about combating the lies and bringing it back again and again to how unreliable and unprincipled Romney is.

  • choicelady : kes – I think Obama will be firm, decisive, and refuse to let Romney get away with his lies but probably won’t be the same as Joe. He gets the image of the ‘angry Black man’ he HAS to avoid.

  • choicelady : KQ – oh wow, I am SO sorry for your wife’s lingering back problems!!!

  • choicelady : Bourne – oh yes, we LOVED the trip. Were in Madrid, Granada, and the Basque country. Amazing, wonderful, and exciting to do. Only problem – I really did NOT like most of the food and can’t quite explain why since I’m not fussy. Oh, well – can’t have it all. But it was superb. Thanks for asking. How are YOU in this finally chilly and almost fall like weather? Won’t last next week, but I’m loving it and hope you are, too.

  • AdLib : KQ – I don’t know, I think if you judge debates on performance energy alone, as folks who aren’t too well informed do, ROmney won. It is the most superficial way to judge a debate but that’s what the MSM did. They awarded a win to a guy who they know lied left and right in the debate. It’s crazy.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….Sir Murphalot….sur fs a lot…..like it

  • choicelady : Hi Bourne! I agree about Ryan – it was sort of creepy. LOVED Joe’s answer. It is most possible to be anti-abortion AND pro-choice if you give other people the full credit for having their own values, morality, and right to be different from you.

  • kesmarn : What do you think will be Obama’s tone in the next round?

  • KQµårk 死神 : Never CL my wife went through that and she’s still not recovered from all the side effects.

  • BourneID : CL, I have to stop hitting the return because it sends the msg. Did you make your trip to Spain last month? enjoy it? In what part did you travel? I love the country.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : bourne- I had the same reaction….what is the nickname they gave their first kid…based on the ultrasound….in the meantime hiding a key fact in the midst of that story…I INTEND TO PUSH MY RELIGIOUS FAITH’S RULES ONTO THE REST OF THE NATION- to hell with the bill of rights, the separation of church and state

  • AdLib : Bourne – Ryan sounded like the RW extremist ideologue he is, pitching his anti-abortion heart-string tugging just like the rest of his ilk. That was a turn off to women who have heard the same BS from the anti-choice extremists.

  • choicelady : KQ – please seriously do NOT let them inject stuff into your spine. Start with chiropractic then move on if you must. Took me over a month but one day I got up, walked out the door, no pain then til now. And I have TWO herniated discs, too!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Agreed AdLib if those complaints didn’t work against Romney who was a liar as well, they won’t work against Biden for telling the truth.

  • choicelady : Murph – We dub thee Sir Murphalot! Braved the RW hustings to bring us news!

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I think in the case the Obama camp may have been too effective with their attacks demonizing Romney. Sure he looked crazed to us but to others who are looking for an excuse to vote for the white guy they liked his ‘performance’.

  • kesmarn : And he really left himself open to the joke of being dad to “Beanie Baby.” What was he thinking?

  • AdLib : The bottom line is this, the Repubs whining about Biden changes nothing. Dems are energized and undecided voters saw him as the winner. End of story, reality can’t be changed…at least in this case…by all the whining of the Repubs.

  • BourneID : Hi CL

  • BourneID : AdLib, yes they did save the woman’s question for the rest. I thought Biden’s answr that he will never imose the Catholic view on any other religion was excellent. Ryan was just ridiculous. His story of seeing the heartbeat 7 weeks into his wife’s pregnancy – and his olmost teary-eyed reply was an embarrassment. I do realize he was talking to his audience and that doesn’t play wel among most women in California.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sounds like a good man CL. I had an appointment with my GP she’s a diabetes specialist so she is taking care of that first but I have a referral to a pain specialist and will get to a back specialist of some type eventually.

  • kesmarn : “Nuns on the Bus” are in Toledo tonight, and will be in the central city tomorrow morning. Natch, I am working… sigh…

  • AdLib : KQ – Yep, the public has been drowned in propaganda and spin for 4 years, since Obama took office and the ACA were going to kill Granny. People are a bit numb indeed to all of that crap.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….I am honored my lady.

  • choicelady : Hey AdLib and kes – lovely to see you both!

  • choicelady : Murph – for listening to all that, you have earned the Croix de Gall. Theirs. Not yours. Bravo to you dear friend!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne….are you still here.

  • AdLib : Murph – Love the Paul Wall! Although can’t that also be what Paul uses when people ask him questions, to keep them out?

  • choicelady : Thank you, KQ – it was pretty scary. When you start watching “Hoveround” commercials at 3 am, you know you’re scared. I am FINE now – thanks to my gay, leftie, Presbyterian Deacon, successful, community-leader chiropractor. He set me to rights. May you find one for YOUR back if you don’t have such a blessing now.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I think now even the swing voter is numb to much of the vitriol. That’s one thing Obama misread from the last debate.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….I spent time today listening to Rush and sampling Drudge and Savage….we sometimes forget how unhinged these people are.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hey choice….

  • AdLib : Hey Choicelady!

  • kesmarn : Hey, c’lady! Good to see you. Hard to believe it’s been a year since your back injury.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad and ALL….there was a rally in Wi. today in Ryan’s district…they put up a “Paul Wall” where people could pin their questions- a sort of wailing wall…..and the assumption was that they had about as much chance of getting an answer there.

  • AdLib : KQ – We knew that whatever Biden did, the RW would attack him for being crazy and rude. Obama finally learned this, don’t change your behavior thinking it will moderate the behavior of Repubs. They only have an on and off switch on lying and attacking and when it comes to any Dem, it’s on no matter what they do.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’m glad you’re doing better CL. I know you had a tough time for a while there.

  • choicelady : Murph – saw the drunk stuff (Biden is teetotal due to FAMILY history) but not the senile stuff. Yup – when the GOP wigs out, it’s manly. When the Dems stand UP to the wigging out, it’s perverse.

  • kesmarn : Funny how when Ronnie Ray-gun smiled and laughed, he was “genial.” Joe was declared “bizarre.” When Ryan looked down, he was thoughtful. Obama was “intimidated.”

  • AdLib : Murph – So true, I found Ryan’s dodging questions to insert a personal story very cloying and artificial. He won’t answer questions. Why? Why? That will no doubt be on Obama’s list on Tuesday.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : kes…others are saying Biden was drunk (seriously), or senile, or insane (no exaggeration on any of this)….rabid

  • choicelady : Hi all – great to see you! KQ – I have the herniated disc problem, too, so you are TOTALLY in my sympathy! I have a GREAT chiropractor though – he has me upright and walking. Tomorrow is the 1st anniversary (popped it picketing on a hotel workers’ union line) and it twinges. Oh, well…

  • kesmarn : I’ve been away much of the day but gather that the spinmeisters are faulting the debate moderation and trying to claim that — while Romney was “strong” when HE interrupted — Joe was “rude.”

  • AdLib : Bourne – They did however save the women’s issue for the final question and it was a powerful one. Biden brought up the chauvinism of Ryan, Todd Akin and “forcible rape”. Whoever said that women’s issues didn’t get attention is underestimating that discussion.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib last time Biden had to hold back on Palin or the right wing would call him a hypocritical sexist. But this time he was able to fully unleash on the snotty nosed brat.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…owwwww….d isks….now there is annoying, aching and tough to treat.

  • kesmarn : I’ll take that julep.Congrats on the new car, KQ!

  • AdLib : Now…how inane do all the MSM pundits look for questioning if Biden could win a debate? He has never done poorly at a debate, didn’t take rocket science to project that he would be as strong as usual.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib…so many of the Ryan “good” lines were situated in these longish set pieces…the worst of which was at the end when the moderator asked them to speak to a vet about the ruined political process. Biden spoke from the heart and Ryan gave him more poliitcal mumbo jumbo.

  • KQµårk 死神 : It’s a slight bulging disk that goes back a while. I did get to buy an American car for the first time in 24 years. We were gonna wait but we just wanted to do our part to help the economy early.

  • BourneID : The guest host for Gov Granholm tonight pointed out that there was only one questioned asked last night that addressed women’s issues. He then suggested this might leave an opening for Romney. I can tell you that no woman is going to move in Romney’s direction just because questions were weren’t asked. Just heard that Biden interrupted Ryan 82 time – who gives biden (my new word for c r a p)

  • AdLib : Hey Kes! Have a Joementum Julip on the house!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hello kes..

  • AdLib : Sorry to hear that KQ!

  • kesmarn : Happy Friday and let’s hear it for “Joementum!”

  • AdLib : KQ – The MSM was touting Ryan’s “good lines” like the mindless puppets they are but truthfully, didn’t they all come off as rehearsed, not genuine and manufactured? There was no spontaneity or wit to any of them and they weren’t that good anyway.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQ….what is going on….hurt yourself or just a chronic conditon.

  • KQµårk 死神 : You too bourne, I’ll hang as long as I can. My back has been acting up and it’s hard to sit at my computer. That’s why I’ve been a bit sparse of late.

  • AdLib : I think people are just plain tired of the RW spin that comes after every reality they can’t accept. They’ve ruined their own credibility with all but their lemming-like followers.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think Ryan showed he’s just Palin with a smoother delivery. I was shocked at his lack of knowledge on several issues and every ‘good’ line he had was someone elses.

  • AdLib : Thanks KQ. So what is the point of announcing an admittedly skewed poll??? I can do that too! 100% of respondents believed Biden won…(in 2 point font)using only the opinions of PlanetPOV members.

  • BourneID : Hi KQ; it’s good to see you.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne…McConne ll…a thoroughly nasty piece of work….

  • AdLib : KQ – True and don’t doubt that after Obama wins re-election, they will howl, “Voter Fraud!”

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib here’s the link to the article about the CNN poll. «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad….quoting Goldfinger….I mean the waterboy.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQ the only polls Fox et. al. is reporting is the CNN fake poll that they now admit oversampled the GOP and the Fox internals…whic h are fake….shock all around

  • AdLib : Murph – Rudeness in the defense of liberty is no vice!

  • BourneID : Murph, that’s why Biden was so good…all the right ingredients for success. Given McConnell’s own dull personality (I’ve never seen him smile), he was probably overwhelmed by Biden’s animated performance.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Face it the GOP will never admit losing either. That’s why the polls are not as skewed as the presidential debate where Dems say what they think.

  • AdLib : KQ – Hadn’t heard that update and not surprised. CNN has no journalistic principles, why would they conduct a fair snap poll?

  • AdLib : Bourne – Yep, Romney seemed to be falling all over himself, looked like desperation to me.

  • AdLib : Hey KQ! I think the Repubs would be saying the same thing no matter what, when polls don’t go their way, they’re corrupt. When job numbers don’t go their way, they’re manipulated. When their VP nom loses a debate, Biden was rude. Waa-waa-waa!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Romney’s rudeness was leadership, commitment, zeal in defense of the truth per the righties, AND BIDEN WAS JUST RUDE, OR DRUNK, OR INSANE, OR ADDLED.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Not only that AdLib the sample was completely off with the CNN poll. They even disavowed their poll for that reason.

  • BourneID : Hey AdLib, Romney was on a roll and couldn’t stop himself. If you watched him with the sound off (which I must say I did a lot of) he looked like he was hyperventilating .

  • KQµårk 死神 : Hey folks. The more Republicans complain the more you know Biden won the debate. I think the complaining after the Obama debate might have made things worse too.

  • AdLib : Biden won the snap poll among undecided voters. The CNN poll was not undecided voters so which really matters?

  • AdLib : Murph – We all know Biden was being Biden as do they, they just look like poor sports and liars.

  • BourneID : Murph – and the rudest moron in the history of morons I sometimes wonder if she is really as bad as she seems. I can tell you that most womeh really dislike her. Malkin is getting just as bad.

  • AdLib : It was okay for Romney to be rude and run all over and interrupt Lehrer but of course, when Ryan loses a debate to Biden, only he is rude for interrupting, Romney is showing strength and determination when he’s rude. A tempest in a teapot and a lame talking point. Biden did his job as anticipated and now he’s provided a great lead in for Obama.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : The comments last night about Biden being drunk that were made by McConnell, a flock of Foxites, Rush, Drudge

  • AdLib : I mean, when all you can criticize is how many times Biden smiled and “He was rude!”…you got nothing.

  • BourneID : Murph, re your question, it seemed pretty typical. I was particularly amused with the Hannity-McConnel l analysis. I wonder if they actually ever look at the videos of interivews? Hannity is so pathetic.

  • AdLib : Good to see you too Bourne!

  • AdLib : I think that the Repub reactions to the debate were an acknowledgement that Biden won.

  • BourneID : Hi AdLib, Good to see you again.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne…just watched Coulter on Bill Maher and she is a moron, first, last and always…

  • AdLib : Hey Murph and Bourne!

  • BourneID : Murph, Fox is in full attack mode against the moderator. In their typical fashion, they fault her performance which, of course, favored Biden. I wonder if Ann Coulter would be fair and balanced as a moderator?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well…let me start…what is your take away from the day of watching the reactions to the debate last night.

  • BourneID : Whose Boden? i’m going to have to remember to turn the light on in here. Hi AdLib. I have a question re POV that I’ll ask in the Help section.

  • BourneID : Hi Murph – I’ve got my Boden all right now. Loved watching Curren tonight, especially Fugelsang. he’s great cutting edge comedian…so glad he has his own show.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hey “Bourne” Hey Ad Lib

  • MurphTheSurf3 : For the Common Good; Obama/Biden 2012; Get Your Biden On

  • BourneID : Here I am after a long absence. Couldn’t stay away after last night’s Biden wipeout of Ryan.

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say, “Now you’re JFK?” or “Hi!” when you arrive!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!

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