Vox Populi – 12-16-2011

Chernynkaya : Night, Sally!

SallyT : I’ll be around. Got no where to go. Well, except the bathroom. Have a good night.

Chernynkaya : I do know that. I couldn’t like anyone who didn’t! Well, I guess that’s all I got for tonight. Maybe I’ll see you yonder?

SallyT : That sounds exciting and I am glad to hear you enjoyed your career. Oh, you know I love animals!

Chernynkaya : I love animals.

Chernynkaya : Those were the days! I had a good career while it lasted. I also enjoyed the Secret service that night. Especially the bomb sniffing dogs!

SallyT : LOLOL So many of those guys are really short! Sounds like you had some fun.

Chernynkaya : I also met Kirk Douglas that night–after his stroke. he is about 5’4″ and bandy legged. A friend of mine said he reminded her of Popeye–I started laughing so hard I had to leave the room to compose myslef.

SallyT : Are you serious? Wow! I heard she had a back case of stage fright. But, 90lbs!

Chernynkaya : Sally, she was a mess. At that time, she weighed about 90 lbs. She was terrified of going and sitting on the dais and she didn’t even have anything to do–just sit. She wore an huge floppy hat to cover her face, and I had to hold her hand to the stage. Neurotic!

SallyT : Anytime Cher. But, did you met Barbara S!

Chernynkaya : Thanks, Sally. That’s how I felt, but in person he was magnetic too–and sexy! Well, my friend, I guess we can finish up here and watch TV. Thanks for joining me tonight!

SallyT : It was when we had the big flood here in Portland and Clinton was Prez. So he came here and met with all the volunteers, which she was one. He let her take his picture and she said that when he smiled she just about melted. She said he just had something that drew you to him. She said you felt like he knew you and you were important to him. She said she could see why woman might mistake it as advances but if it was she sure would have taken it!

Chernynkaya : I suppose so, Sally. But first, tell me what your friend said about Bill?

SallyT : Night Chris. And, I am sure that Nixon has worn off my hand by now.

Chernynkaya : Take care Chris! And think about an article on polling? Please?

SallyT : Well, Cher, shall we go, too?

SallyT : I had a friend that met Clinton, too, and said the same thing!

Chernynkaya : KQ–Have a great night.

ChrisR266 : I am bidding adieu as well. Everyone stay merry and bright! Thanks for the fine dialogue tonight.

Chernynkaya : Got it, Chris>

SallyT : Night KQ! 7pm on TCM on Wed Ball of Fire.

Chernynkaya : If you want to talk charisma–Bill Clinton. I met him once. I worked for a large Jewish charity, and he, Itzhack Rabin and Barbra Streisand were at an event I was in charge of. I have to tell you guys, I would have um, had relations wiht him on the spot. I was sitting with the press and all the women there melted. He just had IT.

ChrisR266 : Cher: I guess what I am saying is that along the lines of that lovely Who song “we won’t be fooled again.” They’re being watched now, and they won’t be able to get away with the shit they did in 2000 and 2004.

SallyT : But, I think Nixon hurt me because in the 6th grade I was Prez of the class and I almost got impeached!

KQµårk 死神 : Well I gotta go too. Goodnight folks.

KQµårk 死神 : That stinks Sally.

SallyT : They wouldn’t let us go see Kennedy because he was just a senator and Nixon was VP. Damn it!

Chernynkaya : Sally, of course! I didn’t think of the year.

SallyT : I was young, Cher. He was the VP at the time and the school let us go see him. Not Kennedy, tho. Anyway, he took my hand as he went down the line and said, “Hello young lady.” I didn’t know him except he was the VP.’

Chernynkaya : Chris, I agree. But what are you referring to about “bought it all.?

KQµårk 死神 : OWS is just hibernating a bit by fighting against foreclosures this winter. They will be back.

ChrisR266 : Really, Sally?

KQµårk 死神 : Wow Sally were they clammy.

ChrisR266 : Cher: They haven’t bought it all, yet. OWS and the Obama campaign machine will rise to levels we haven’t imagined yet by August of ’12.

Chernynkaya : Did your hand smell, Sally?

KQµårk 死神 : Exactly Cher.

SallyT : Did I ever tell you guys that I shook hands with Nixon when he was running against Kennedy?

Chernynkaya : I forget why Nixon won. Oh yeah–the ’68 convention!

KQµårk 死神 : Oh crap I thought you mean email Sally. I’ll have to watch it.

Chernynkaya : Chris, I agree that they are catering to the same 10% of neanderthals that have always been among us. The difference now is that some of those throwbacks are zillionaires like the Kochs. And they are buying the government.

ChrisR266 : Exactly, Sally.

KQµårk 死神 : As big of a bully as GWB was he still connected to at least his people. Reagan was popular when he was stabbing the middle class in the back because he was a people person. Those are the type of Repugs who are most dangerous in a way. Romney or Gingrich is like Nixon and not likeable on a personal lever and we all know why Nixon won.

SallyT : It is all on tape, Chris.

ChrisR266 : What these old politicians have not realized in the 21st century is that what they say now NEVER, EVER will go away. They can pander to the base all they want, and it will be pounded like a dirty rug, relentlessly and every minute, if either of them ascends to the nomination. They will be dead in the water.

SallyT : No, KQ, it is in Time Out! Your movie Ball of Fire is going to be on next Wednesday.

Chernynkaya : Sally, what they love about Newt is that he is as nasty as they are. They want someone to be a hater on their behalf.

KQµårk 死神 : Dang still not getting it sally. I’ve had problems with that email before.

SallyT : Cher, I hate it when my computer acts older than me!

Chernynkaya : Chris, but he touched a nerve with that with the pathology of the Right. In the general, he would be crushed.

ChrisR266 : Ok, KQ: they are both sociopaths of the Nth order.

SallyT : I can’t understand anyone voting for Gingrich and especially TPs. I thought they didn’t like those in WASHDC for too long.

KQµårk 死神 : Just say it Chris they are both sociopaths of the nth order.

Chernynkaya : Sally–yes you do! But my computer had a senior moment there.

Chernynkaya : That was weird.

SallyT : You got that KQ!

ChrisR266 : Critical Race theory (of all things) also seems to be an important way to get a handle on why, eventually, both Romney and Newt will never get traction with voters. They both really are out of touch, they are not capable, nor do either have the motivation, to see ANYTHING from the perspective of someone in a socio/economic place other than where they are. Gingrich’s comments about the poor kids learning to work by becoming janitors at their schools was the dead give away.

KQµårk 死神 : To me Paul is as big a phony as Romney because he won’t tell people the truth about why he believes what he believes.

SallyT : I know your type, Cher.

Chernynkaya : Hello? Type not showing??

KQµårk 死神 : TC murph.

Chernynkaya : Night, Murph!

Chernynkaya : Night, Murph.

KQµårk 死神 : Hmm… can’t find it but that mail is a mess.

Chernynkaya : Sally–yep, that’s the shorter version of what I just wrote. Channeling!

SallyT : Have a good night and I am sure you will find your trail, Murph!

MurphTheSurf3 : Thanks Sally.

ChrisR266 : Good night, Murph. All the best to you in the next steps.

Chernynkaya : KQ–Paul is popular because of one thing, IMO–he seems not to care what people think and that is refreshing. But if they took a minute to look at his policies, they’s be shocked. Plus, he’s 75. Plus, young people who are enamored are dumb.

SallyT : Murph, just one foot in fron of the other.

MurphTheSurf3 : Gotta go. Meeting in the AM. Occupy….still trying to figure out next steps…..

SallyT : KQ, off subject but did you see my message to you and Cher?

KQµårk 死神 : Romney simply has no personal integrity. Believe me that will show under the lights.

ChrisR266 : I think the thickness of the skin issue is one that we’re also going to see play out with Romney and Gingrich pretty soon. Neither of them have skin of steel.

Chernynkaya : KQ–I think the more people get to know Romney the bigger the win for Obama. And I KNOW that team Obama is ready for him. After all, Obama has his record to run on–people already know him. Not the same for mittens–I think all he has going for him is his Bain time–which can be shown to be horrible.

SallyT : Ron Paul is an old fart!

SallyT : Wyden lost a lot of support here in Oregon over his thinskin problem.

ChrisR266 : Cher: And, Ron Racist Paul will never get elected, so they can show him some love with out fear of reprisal every once in a while. It is that inch deep analysis they apply to both the issues and their own behaviors.

SallyT : Bye, Sue!

MurphTheSurf3 : Chris….Wyden.. ..yep…thin skinned.

Chernynkaya : HAve fun, Sue!

ChrisR266 : Cher: there is a significant correlation between the education level of a voter and his/her ability to discern content issues from emotional or character concerns.

SallyT : Good night, CL! See you later!

KQµårk 死神 : Cher Paul love from the left is my biggest pet peeve by far.

Chernynkaya : CL–Have a good sleep and feel better!!

KQµårk 死神 : Think about it mittens has been running for 6 YEARS.

Chernynkaya : What’s so telling about the way voters think: We Dems excoriate a decent Dem if they are on the worng side of some important issue-like entitlements, as we should be. but Ron Racist Paul gets love because of his anti-war stance. WTF?

ChrisR266 : Murph: He got his feelings hurt.

KQµårk 死神 : Sweet dreams CL.

KQµårk 死神 : Exactly I think the reason Mittens polls most against Obama now is he has the most name recognition and people don’t know his real record.

SueInCa : Sorry folks for the short here but busy night with the grand son, yeah cher me too about you

ChrisR266 : Love ya, Choice. Feel better soon, and be merry and bright.

Chernynkaya : That’s what I love about you Sue.

MurphTheSurf3 : Night CL

Chernynkaya : KQ and most people don’t even know that about Mitt yet. Can;t wait for the ads!

KQµårk 死神 : We have to remember like it or not the next election will be determined by people who go by a visceral feel of the candidate. That’s why I think Romney is so beatable because there is no way he get’s people to ‘like him’. He truly looks like the 1 percenter who fired you.

MurphTheSurf3 : Re. Wyden….So what explains the Democrat from Utopia decideding to get on board with this? Occam’s razor: He believes in it. But another factor has to be the fate of one of Wyden’s great contributions to the Affordable Care Act, his Free Choice Vouchers. In April, when the parties were trading away pieces of the government in order to pass a continuing resolution, the vouchers were killed. No funeral — just gone. «link»

SueInCa : Cher, neither am I

SallyT : Okay, I will say one thing good on Wyden. He is the Senator pushing the hardest to keep the internet open to all and agains whatever it is on posting and blogging. Other than that, he is on my shitlist.

Chernynkaya : Sue, I’m not known for my tact. heh.

choicelady : WEll y’all, two hours in, and I think it’s all my aching back can take. This has been very wonderful, but I’m packing it in for the night. Hope to see you all soon! If funk and Murph come back, please tell them ‘night for me. Be well – and if we don’t talk next week, hope everyone has a great holiday!

KQµårk 死神 : That’s a joke Cher because with Romney buying into the Ryan budget 100% that’s much worse.

SueInCa : Cher I love how you just SAY it lol I do too

SallyT : Oh, Chris. Well, he, Wyden is certainly on my shitlist.

KQµårk 死神 : Romney is caught in so many lies and debates like a petulant child who looks so entitled when attacked.

Chernynkaya : But there was an intersting push back from the silly meme that Wyden de-fanged our better position on Medicare: Who even knows who Wyden is? And he is not powerful enough to derail our stance against Ryan plan. PL Dems are such pussies.

choicelady : KQ – indeed! Perry is deep, to-the-bone funny. Not that he means to be, but he surely is.

ChrisR266 : Sally: I didn’t say anything about Wyden. Someone else did.

KQµårk 死神 : For sure CL, Perry would be my favorite to go against.

choicelady : Sally – it’s over Wyden’s “pact” with Ryan. He lost all of us on that.

SueInCa : KQ I don’t think so, when some people thought he made mistakes at the first debate last time, most people then said he won it. He is good at debating and anyone over there has got baggage galore

ChrisR266 : DWS will always have to watch the low blows, the innuendo, the absolutely offensive things the dirty right says because she’s a woman and they can. Dean doesn’t have to worry about being called a bitch, or worse.

SallyT : What did Chris say about Wyden?

choicelady : KQ – now be honest – saying Perry is making fewer gaffes is NOT a really high bar to cross. All he has to be is sober. Obama is constantly in debate mode, and I think there is NO way any of these bozos can equal him. He is unflappable. They are highly flappable – even Romney. I noticed, BTW, that Romney is very immature in some of his “back and forth”. That may be what people see – this immature person. Very odd almost (sorry for the sexism) girlish giggle and sideways glances. And NO I am not suggesting he’s closeted – just immature.

KQµårk 死神 : Me too Cher. I think he’s dead to Obama and most dems now.

Chernynkaya : Wyden is dead to me now.

ChrisR266 : KQ: she is good, and I admire her much. She is not Howard Dean. She cannot do what he can without fear.

Chernynkaya : DWS is fantastic. Steve Israel–so-so.

KQµårk 死神 : My most positive thing for Dems this cycle is that DWS is DNCC chair. She is good.

ChrisR266 : Cher: But the bigots also always forget that blacks are also muslims.

Chernynkaya : Let me amend that–LOTS less liked than AA’s by the general public. At least even bigots know that Blacks are Christians.

SallyT : Granholm was sure fighting for Obama last night.

choicelady : Chris – glad to hear that about Wyden. My info and experience were so NOT good! But yeah – he’s gotten weirdly weird on this thing with Ryan. Creeeeepy.

KQµårk 死神 : I also remember Obama’s early debates in 2007 and he did not do that hot. The good part is no one was looking until 2008 back then.

ChrisR266 : Y’all, where or where is Howard Dean when we need him? I hope he gets back into the fight, soon.

Chernynkaya : Sue, no Jew would win the nom, let alone the election. I wouldn’t even want us to run one. Trust me–Jews are like AAs.

ChrisR266 : KQ: I am not worried about Obama’s debating skills. He taught college law. You never forget how to be that on your toes when students get cocky.

choicelady : Sue – I heard Granholm and her husband at the Sacto Press Club, and I have to say I was shocked and disappointed in how freaking superficial her answers to questions were. I did buy her book though – I will see what I can cull from that. Might have just been a bad day, but they were like a stand up act and not at ALL helpful on economic issues. Very disappointing.

KQµårk 死神 : chris

SallyT : CL, he was very nice to me when I met him. Talked to me for awhile and everything. Of course I am a voter for him.

KQµårk 死神 : I am a bit worried about one thing regarding debates Sue. I think it does help an individual candidate hone their skills. I mean even Perry is making less gaffes. Obama could come out a little rusty in the first debate.

ChrisR266 : Cher: Time for Obama to bring Ludacris front and center: “I got hoes in every area code…”

Chernynkaya : KQ–agree! Can;t stand Tebow!

choicelady : Cher – so what’s wrong with someone Jewish in 2016? That could be GREAT with respect to Mid East peace IF they are mature and thoughtful.

SueInCa : Why Cher? Nothing wrong with running a Jewish person for Prez

Chernynkaya : HAHAHA! Chris, “Ho’s HOE SO!”

choicelady : Sally – I don’t know if I said I once was at a B&B where Wyden and his then lady friend were. She was delightful and charming. He never said ONE WORD to any of us, not even “good morning”. I’ve watched him now and then, and he’s a lunatic upon occasion. Apparently he’s so pissed the Dems did not take up his dreadful health proposal that he’s “getting even” with this “bipartisan” kill Medicare plan. And he seems to think no one will notice. I’d say he has some real problems. Many who know him say he’s a nasty piece of work and had as many warm fuzzies with his ex family as Newt.

KQµårk 死神 : Sue you have a great point.

SueInCa : Jennifer Granholm is going to have an election central show this year on Current

Chernynkaya : You’re welcome, CL!

KQµårk 死神 : I’m a big NFL fan so I guess I’m more sensitive. The NFL mic’d up Tebow this week and he was singing Christian songs and talking about God constantly. He’s way past the norm and I don’t want his crap pushed down our throats.

Chernynkaya : My son asked me who I though WE had to run in 2016. The only people I could think of to run for Prez were Jewish, so that means we Dems better start grooming someone new.

SallyT : But the crazy love the crazy. Thems the smart ones to them.

ChrisR266 : Cher: I “hoe” so, too. That should be a campaign slogan.

Chernynkaya : Really looks like the tide is turning for us! Oh dear god I hoe so!

ChrisR266 : We’re not even close to go time yet, and the GOP is being handed the rope to take itself out of the running before the running begins. They’re doing a damned fine job of it, too.

SueInCa : The GOP made a big mistake with too many debates, it allowed the batshitcrazy to come into too many livingrooms too many nights. When you are that crazy, you wanna keep a low profile. They may not follow the issues like they should but Americans do know crazy

choicelady : Cher – GREAT info, thank you!

choicelady : KQ – I never heard what Perry said about Tebow, but I don’t care either, so you don’t have to tell me. I am so b-o-r-e-d by them all.

ChrisR266 : Murph and Cher: yep.

KQµårk 死神 : Great info Cher.

SallyT : Okay, guys, I am sick about Wyden. He is my favorite Senator from here in Oregon. He has gone brain dead!

MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…great summary of the likeability data. The GOP base is holding its collective nose.

KQµårk 死神 : My problem is Tebow letting himself be used by the right wing. Can you imagine another player not denouncing Perry for even bringing them up in a GOP debate?

choicelady : KQ – tonight Ed Schultz defended Tebow. He is who he is, and I hope he retains his independence. I don’t care – so long as he doesn’t use his faith to promote some horrid candidate. Stay OUT of it, Tebow! They’ll grind you into the dust!

Chernynkaya : Here’s some interesting polling from WSJ: ALL GOP frontrunners viewed negatively by most: “Going back over the last five elections, all of the eventual GOP nominees entered the primary season more liked than disliked by the American public, according to Wall Street Journal/NBC News polling data. That was also the case with nearly all of their Republican closest rivals. But this time, in a stark departure, the American people hold negative views of all three of the GOP front-runners. That’s bad news for a Republican Party eager to topple President Barack Obama. In the case of Mr. Gingrich, the current front-runner, just 24% of Americans feel positively toward the former House speaker, compared with 40% who feel negatively—a gap of 16 percentage points. One would have to go back to Pat Buchanan in 1995 to find a top Republican presidential candidate with similarly sharp negatives in the lead up to the first primary contests. By comparison, a year out from his re-election in 2004—and despite being disliked by many Democrats—Presid ent George W. Bush was well into positive territory in November 2003—though still well below his positive image in December 1999. No GOP candidate at this point in a recent election has been as popular as Sen. John McCain was in late 1999. Mr. Obama, by comparison, is pretty much dead even right now. Forty-five percent of adults view him positively, compared with 42% who view him negatively.”

ChrisR266 : Did, Funk. Thanks. Back for some more merry and bright.

SueInCa : KQ they have been using him for awhile now, especially Focus on the Family.

KQµårk 死神 : Don’t forget the House’s drive for 25.

Chernynkaya : Murph, well, that’s good but I wouldn’t expect otherwise.

KQµårk 死神 : Talking about Dominionists what about that Tebow? I told everyone the right was going to try to use him.

SallyT : Yes, CL!

MurphTheSurf3 : Cher-At the O organizing meeting we were told that the Reelect Campaign was spreading its arms wide to win back the House and increase the majority in the Senate….divide d government be damned.

choicelady : Sally – you familiar with the 1906 Easter Day lynchings and the vastly more recent apparent lynching of Leonard Gakinya, a Nigerian student. Of course, it was declared “suicide”, but the evidence shows otherwise. And those who knew all the racist and Dominionist underbelly no longer may live in S’field – too freaking dangerous.

SueInCa : Murph I thought you were in Kansas, dumbo me, Springfield is in MO

SallyT : Kansas is OZ! Not the good part. The wicked Witch part.

Chernynkaya : Well, you all mostly talked me down about the caving meme. Mostly. Still, it nettles. What about down-ticket? It’s just as important. I wish voters would get over their love of divided govt.

SallyT : Obama made some fans in Joplin after the tornodo

MurphTheSurf3 : Sue….don’t know much about Kansans…..Brow nback if awful but Kansas is an odd place in many ways. Here in Mo. we have a dem gov and a split senate representation (with most gop in the house).

choicelady : funk – I am particularly captivated by Wild Wabbit Woad, however. Any place that can make that a legal, certified address has a lot to offer people.

KQµårk 死神 : Face it Romney is like the bad candidates the Dems ran with Kerry and Dukakis. People do not like plastic candidates.

SallyT : Joplin has a few closet Obama fans from those I know there.

Chernynkaya : Funk, I pieced it together.

choicelady : funk – I was just there in July (and froze to death) and saw Nettles. I loved it. GREAT place.

SallyT : CL, I couldn’t of describe Sfield better!

SueInCa : CL that AOG church gives me the willies

choicelady : SAlly – Springfield creeps me out. Too much racism, skinheads, violence. Home of the Assembly of God church and John Ashcroft. I know a LOT about S’field, and what I know I don’t like at ALL.

funksands : Smoke em if you got em C

Chernynkaya : Funk, she lives on a little pond, and I only visit in the heat of summer! She comes here for the winter.

funksands : Cher: “aren’t” jeez…

ChrisR266 : Back in a few.

KQµårk 死神 : Cher even conservatives bring that up to attack Romney

funksands : Choice, Lummi is the home of Nettles Farm, one of my favs.

SallyT : Springfield is TP area.

ChrisR266 : Sue: Agreed. Newt is weak. He will self-distruct. Romman is just out of the league. He will crumble under any more pressure.

SueInCa : Murph haven’t Kansans had enough of Brownback?

funksands : Cher, why the hell are you up here visiting them? WTF? Some friend you are!!

SallyT : Kansas City and north of. Good number areas!

Chernynkaya : Funk, my oldest friend lives in Bellevue. Friend from HS.

Chernynkaya : KQ–now that is a brilliant point about a Wall St guy!! Damn.

choicelady : funk – oh wow – I have friends on Lummi. How amazing!

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T….can you say more….which part of the state…what are you hearing? We heard tonight that the Obama folks are aiming to go for five Red States….take the battle to them.

ChrisR266 : Where’s my toddy?

choicelady : Murph – that is SO impressive! Glad to hear the pendulum may actually be moving toward sanity even in MO. I had family and friends from MO, so I am interested in it all.

SueInCa : Chris I think newt or romman will go nutso

Chernynkaya : LAst night it suddenly and unexpectedly hail stormed here in Long Beach CA. Lightening and thunder too.

funksands : Sue, that is a VERY good point about Hillary. Overlooked.

SallyT : I come from rural Missouri and have many friends there. They are closest voting for Obama.

choicelady : Cher – oh no! Google crawling makes my SKIN crawl! EVeryone look out!

SueInCa : CL very strong penicillin

KQµårk 死神 : BRB

funksands : Choice, I’m in Bellevue, right outside Seattle.

funksands : Holy sh**!! That’s what it is. Well I’ll just lay back and enjoy it then…

ChrisR266 : Sue: That is so not funny. I do not want to hear about your beautiful 60 degree day.

SueInCa : If either Romney or Newt are the candidate, it won;t take much for them to come unglued when Obama does that little chuckle, it drove Hill batty

choicelady : Oh Sue – I’m sorry! What can they do about it? Sand-blasting does not seem realistic, does it?

KQµårk 死神 : Also it’s a terrible time for a Wall Street guy to run.

MurphTheSurf3 : Re. Obama. I am in rural Missouri. Very conservative. Fundamentalist. Very GOP. Tonight. 23 volunteers. More than the average at our 2008 efforts. And this was our first gathering. A LOT of angry people.

Chernynkaya : Funk–it’s Google crawling you! for the love of god, stand back! (I had a toddy too.)

choicelady : funk – if you feel like answering, where are you?

SueInCa : CL Rash is back, it is cellulitis

KQµårk 死神 : I do agree with one thing conservatives are saying though. I do think Romney is the most beatable. He just does not offer a contrast and he kills the base’s turnout. All Obama has to do is say you agreed with me as Gov of MA in every debate.

SallyT : Chris, yes like BP is saying come on down. The oil won’t hurt you. The wild life are gone so you will have plenty of room.

funksands : Coldest December in 90 years here.

choicelady : Sue – it was colder here than there! Bout froze this afternoon! Of course I’m sick, so I may not be a good judge. Rick’s sick, too. YOU stay healthy – you’ve had your long run and deserve much better!

funksands : You are still cool Chris.

SueInCa : But KQ we have a part of the SF bay in our front yard so 60 here in Dec is phenomenal

ChrisR266 : Funk: testing back.

funksands : It’s pretty sad that it took me 6 posts to notice.

ChrisR266 : Sally: Why yes, I have noticed them, and that BP made ’em.

choicelady : funk – it’s creepy to get that message and feel like a person trapped in a glass house: YOU know you’re there pounding on the window. Rest of us do not. Glad the REAL you is back!

Chernynkaya : Chris, yes. It means voters are emotional.

KQµårk 死神 : Over 70 F here in sunny ATL. But there’s no climate change.

ChrisR266 : Cher: yeah, they do. They’re 30% of registered Republicans.

funksands : Comparative Voters For Obama 2012 is a strong, quiet voting block….

Chernynkaya : Funk–that’s weird! Above my pay grade though.

choicelady : Cher – no, I know you don’t quote them, but they show up on TV now and then, and they’re pretty poor at their job!

MurphTheSurf3 : OK…this PARTY is on….we are reaching critical mass….

SueInCa : cl YOU BET WE HAD A BEAUTIFUL 60 DEGREE DAY TODAY

SallyT : Oh, come on Funk, you know you like it.

ChrisR266 : Choice: Saying that he doesn’t deserve a second term is NOT also saying they won’t vote for him. This is why what gets reported is so misleading.

funksands : I feel it even.

choicelady : Hey Sue! How are you? Still like the new digs?

funksands : I’ve never experienced that before…..I fell violated…

Chernynkaya : Funk, you get a passing grade.

KQµårk 死神 : It’s funny they don’t talk about the economy much at all on RS except for vague generalizations. Damn I’m giving away my biggest story of the year.

MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…you know the polls better than I do…but does much of the result depend on the nature of the question? So conflicting results make sense..yes?

SueInCa : IT WAS AP THIS WEEK

choicelady : funk – that happens when you leave and come back – you sometimes have to re-log into the Planet and then make sure your cookies are working (mine do best as chocolate chip). It’s why, once you’re here, DON”T LEAVE. Stay online even when you go out for toddy fixins.

funksands : I think EVERYONE’S polls suffer due to the general gloom over chronic issues.

SallyT : There you go, Funk.

Chernynkaya : CL–Not rasmuessn–I’d never quote them. It was another big pollster.

SueInCa : Hey Cher

funksands : It always is….

ChrisR266 : Cher: That means that people are still really depressed that the economy is still sputtering. And, that they are not at all willing to let someone else try to make things better.

SallyT : Funk, I think it is personal.

Chernynkaya : Howdy SUE!!

KQµårk 死神 : At the same time murph a plurality says in polls, 44% last I saw that Obama will win reelection.

funksands : Wow, that was weird. For a few minutes, every time I tried to post I got “I DONT LIKE SPAM!!” WTF?

MurphTheSurf3 : funksands….hop e you passed your test. HI!

choicelady : KQ – Solyndra??? That was something BUSH started. I’d not get too close to that if I were a Republican.

ChrisR266 : KQ: I’m not worried about Wisconsin. FBI has been in there for two months. It’s not going to be pretty for Walker after the Holidays, I hear.

SallyT : Me either CL.

funksands : testing

Chernynkaya : KQ–not gonna get to 8%. We’d need about 250,000 new jobs each month. I’ll pray for just a fraction of that each month.

SueInCa : CL that poll was AP

choicelady : Sally – YES! I can’t believe the chutzpah of BP to be doing those ads!!!!

KQµårk 死神 : The funny part is listening to them over there. They don’t think Obama can ever win against any GOP candidate not because of the economy as much as you would think but because of fast and furious and Solyndra. And I bet less than a majority of voters even know about those things.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL…Gallup report 54 percent saying O does not deserve a second term…last week. Of course, questions like that are pretty meaningless.

choicelady : Murph – OK. That’s helpful. I do NOT pay attention, so I will now. Thank you.

ChrisR266 : KQ: That’s marvelous. And that’s exactly what a whole slew of people are reasoning through right now.

SallyT : By the way, have you all seen the commercials for gulf vacations in all the states there put out by BP?

Chernynkaya : Chris, I am talking about primary voters and most republicans–the y hate him.

choicelady : Cher – I heard that 51% saying he doesn’t deserve a second term, but I never heard whose poll it was. Some polling firms are really unreliable, such as Rasmussen. They do not do good prep, tend to lean GOP and more affluent, so their results are unreliable.

KQµårk 死神 : Cher bottom line pray for a few things. Job creation every month and for the unemployment rate to get closer to 8%. And of course no disasters like the oil spill.

ChrisR266 : Cher: They don’t loathe Obama (he still polls quite high on the personal likeability and respect factors). They do loathe that a black man is President and that the GOP is not the party of the president. That’s what they loathe.

choicelady : Chris – yeah, I heard a LOT about that from friends who live in Y’town and teach at YSU. They’re all concerned. Of course we in CA think a little 2.5 is nothing, but put them all together and…it’s unsettling to say the least.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- Block the Vote, SOPA, Money Gushers, and Efforts to Control Key Media are all GOP hedges on their chances in 2012.

Chernynkaya : I hope not to jinx it, but I am feeling more optimistic about Obama’s chances. Speaking of polls, most recently, two are contradictory–w hich is why I am leery of them even in aggregate: One said over 51% say Obama does NOT deserve a 2nd term, but he win’s in all head-toheads against any R candidate. What does that even mean?!

KQµårk 死神 : I would worry about states like WI with the voter rules changes the most.

ChrisR266 : Choice: Check out the last two month’s news about earthquake spikes in places where horizontal fracking and drilling has increased. There’s a clear link, it’s just not one that anyone wants to talk about.

choicelady : KQ – that brings up another issue of another 2000 specter? Is any state poised to steal ANOTHER election?

SallyT : CL, I am with you on the GOP! Yuk

KQµårk 死神 : Yup that’s why cross tabs matter because those trends are steadier.

KQµårk 死神 : Sure Republicans will fall in line more but remember even GWB lost the popular vote because it came out that he had a drunk driving accident.

ChrisR266 : KQ: you are on the money about mainstream voters. And that’s what people watching polls casually now don’t think about. The polls right now reflect primarily the whims of the far right in the GOP.

choicelady : Murph – well, I know I am sick of the GOP and they give me fatigue!!!! And I don’t even CARE about them!

Chernynkaya : KQ–WOW! LOVE it. Hope it’s indicative. YAY!!

choicelady : KQ – that is freaking amazing! Thank you for posting that! Wow!

MurphTheSurf3 : Just read through the thread, most of what you are reporting re. key audiences and Obama was discussed tonight. Gains where it really counts and the signs of GOP fatigue are all over the place.

KQµårk 死神 : Chris good point with the gender gap too.

KQµårk 死神 : Cher check this out from a RS poster “in the “President” section of the ballot if it’s Gingrich or Romney. I won’t vote for liars. I just won’t do it. I’ll give money to PACs, Congressman and Senators, but I won’t vote for liars. I’m not voting for Gingrich because I wouldn’t be surprised if he brought a Lewinsky style scandal to the White House (With Marriage “3rd time’s the charm” isn’t getting this Christian’s vote). I’m not voting for Romney because nothing disgusts me more than a man with no principles. Here are some fun questions… Is Romney REALLY Pro-Life or just pretending? Is Gingrich REALLY a devout catholic or just pretending? IF you think they are just pretending then think of how twisted a person you need to be in order to spend 6 months of your time touring the nation lying your butt off to millions of people. You can tell me how terrible Obama is all you want, but I’m not putting my name down in 2012 only to be disgusted and ashamed by my choice a year or two down the road. I chose an absolutely atrocious candidate because Obama was worse is not something I intend to say.”

choicelady : Sally – LOL!!!! Maybe more than you want to share????

ChrisR266 : KQ: I have seen the same. He is also gaining rapidly with women and independents. The GOP comedy hour is beginning to wear on everybody. The key in the next week or two is to watch the 40-55 demographic. They are beginning to show a shift back left with the prospect of Gingrich getting a serious look. About damned time.

Chernynkaya : I think the R’s are in big trouble, as KQ says many will stay home. But the loathe Obama, and that alone can be motivsating.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sorry about all of the illness. I have been queasy too since last night’s debate…..even the news analysis today seemed listless.

choicelady : Chris – that’s very interesting. Saw in the Y’town Vindicator that both Ohio’s environmental forces and the feds are keeping a sharp eye on things – including earthquakes! Scary stuff, but oh so helpful if it works OK AND brings jobs! I’m so torn about it!

SallyT : Some of us are on the can,

KQµårk 死神 : Cher if they had a Nader to vote for it would be different but they don’t and since Romney will probably be the nominee the right wing base will sit allot of people home too, more than dems I bet.

Chernynkaya : Probably correct about mainstream voters KQ.

choicelady : Murph! Hi! Most of us are sick, AdLib is very much under the weather along with kes, but we’re still here kicking the can down the road!

Chernynkaya : Hey Murph!

choicelady : Cher – that would be good. I met a number of people in Ohio whose life fortunes (jobs) rely on this but who also have to live with the results of the environmental impacts.

SallyT : I worry about everything a little with this election.

ChrisR266 : Choice: My best friend’s husband drills in SE Ohio (has for 30 years), and his son works for Chesapeake in PA and NY. The son is doing the deep fracking and recovery work for Chesapeake. Mac here in Ohio drills vertical and fracks. Until the big companies have come in, there was little horizontal drilling here in Ohio. It is an unknown, that’s what is scaring people, with good reason.

KQµårk 死神 : I don’t think mainstream voters are even paying attention that much now.

Chernynkaya : Um–heartily!

MurphTheSurf3 : Greetings all….just back from an organizational meeting for Obama….what’s up?

Chernynkaya : CL- I hardily second that about Chris and polling!!

choicelady : KQ – I wish I could dismiss them. They helped tilt the NON voting outcomes of 2010 I fear. And all the other lost chances since ’68.

KQµårk 死神 : Cher I stopped worrying about emoprogs a long time ago.

Chernynkaya : CL–I can’t help, but if it’s important, I know who to ask and will do so.

choicelady : Chris – not that you don’t have lots on your plate, but a post on what you know about polls and polling would be GREAT. When you have all that free time…

KQµårk 死神 : One of the huge crosstabs I’ve seen in polls with Obama against either repug is that he’s winning with older voters 55+ which he lost in 2008 because of the Ryan plan I bet. The other voters can change their minds much quicker and don’t forget the seniors come out to vote. This is a reversal of 2010 midterms too.

SallyT : Cher, I agree.

ChrisR266 : Cher: On one level, polls are crude. But, if you understand who’s doing them, what they’re asking and why they’re asking it, pols in aggregate are very informative. GOPTEAers ought to be crapping their pants right now.

Chernynkaya : KQ–totally agree with you in theory about what Obama can do re Pipeline. But again, it’s the preception I worry about. And I’m done worrying about emoprogs–they are really insignificant. I am worried about mainline Dems and Indies. People want a fight–stupidly.

choicelady : Sally – Rove would vote for George W. He has NO core values other than his own power.

choicelady : Everyone – does anyone have any info on companies doing fracking in ways that are less or not at all environmentally dangerous? In SE Ohio I hear they’re doing Utica shale, near groundwater, while Marcellus is much deeper and that some companies actually can protect and contain the saline then recover it without pollution. Any info would be appreciated.

KQµårk 死神 : The Bush brand is poison. The reason Perry will never ever get traction is because he reminds too many people of Bush.

ChrisR266 : Sally: Bwwwaaaahahaha! very good.

ChrisR266 : Thanks, Choice and KQ. I do follow the polls very closely, because I use the stuff in my classes. I need to know more than my students do at all times, so I follow every major poll out there. and a lot of no so major ones, too.

SallyT : Carl Rove would vote for Jeb

KQµårk 死神 : They just stuck it in because Obama said he didn’t want it.

Chernynkaya : Chris, absolutely right on about polls. They are crude.

SallyT : Carl Rove

ChrisR266 : Independents will not vote for Jeb. Democrats will not vote for Jeb. Who the hell would vote for Jeb?

choicelady : Chris that’s a good observation about polls.

ChrisR266 : KQ: This whole Keystone thing is another cheap, slimy GOP obstruction/dist raction.

KQµårk 死神 : Chris you are absolutely right. Throw all the main results out of polls. The cross tabs are all that matters.

choicelady : Everyone – I hope you all are correct that Jeb is dog meat. Some poll had him in it, and I nearly swallowed my tongue in horror.

KQµårk 死神 : It’s kinda ridiculous when you think about it and Obama can jujitsu it now. He can say the review can’t be finished in time and say it’s a no go. But that dose not stop the review from going on later. BTW it will get built some day not because of government but because the American people won’t ever stop their ravenous consumption of fossil fuels until they are gone.

ChrisR266 : oops! garbage is that the vast majority of people hear about numbers and polls only in isolation. They do not understand polls, the people doing the polling, or the inadequacy of any single poll in portraying what people are thinking and feeling. You have to study a crapload of polls over a very long time to cull more than sound bites from the reports.

Chernynkaya : BRB–Need a minute…

ChrisR266 : The other problem in all of this GOP

choicelady : KQ – that is very sound advice I think. If he keeps asserting which party REALLY cares about ordinary people’s issues, each individual issue that comes up is indeed less important.

SallyT : I mean Dean said it wasn’t.

ChrisR266 : Hi KQ! Hope you are merry and bright. It is required tonight. About this we agree. Obama just needs to stay the course, and to use that slightly jaded term “be the adult in the room.”

Chernynkaya : KQ–what do you mean not enforceable? The pipline or the demand to approve?

SallyT : KQ, that will be interesting to follow, whether it is forceable or not like John Dean said.

KQµårk 死神 : Chris Obama just needs to keep on hitting the populist themes. Again progressives are missing the point because this debate is far from over. Again every fight turns into a self fulfilling prophecy for failure on the left. Because now the only thing they care about is the Keystone XL jam which is probably not enforceable in the first place.

SallyT : Chris, LOL, I will go for that.

Chernynkaya : Chris, agreed. jeb is BUSH–forever and uber alles.

SallyT : Chris, oh my LORD! Not another Bush. None of them even mention him. I agree with you.

ChrisR266 : Sally: I think it would be GREAT if Paul took it to the floor. We couldn’t pop the popcorn and ice down the beer fast enough for that one.

Chernynkaya : The thing is–not rocket science!–if voters think Dems cave, they should vote for more Dems so there will be no one to cave to. Criticizing Dems for caving does not mean voters don’t like what Dems stand for–it means they HATE what they are caving to.

SallyT : Oh, yes, Cher. I remember that but do you think that will go over now? But old Paul says he might take it to the floor.

ChrisR266 : Cher: Jeb coming in would be the biggest nail in the GOPTEA coffin of all–people just will not put another Bush in office. IT will NOT happen.

Chernynkaya : I sure hope so, Chris.

Chernynkaya : Sally, maybe to late to run in all primaries, but they can do anything at the Convention. Remember that old movie, The Best Man?

ChrisR266 : Choice: The Newt is sinking, and expect that to continue now. He’s getting hammered in Iowa by a half million dollars of ad time buy in Iowa.

SallyT : Perry is still alive with them.

SallyT : KQ, that is what I heard, too.

KQµårk 死神 : Probably Sally. The RS crew still thinks Perry has a chance.

ChrisR266 : Cher: I do think there is a festering disconnect out here in voter land that is starting to show in the polls. People on one hand talk about Obama and Dems “caving,” yet their gut tells them any alternative is not acceptable or in their best interest. I think that’s why the polls are showing better Obama head to head numbers for all GOPTEA candidates.

Chernynkaya : CL, Newt is over IMO.Even if he wins Iowa. It’ll be Mitt. I hear talk of Jeb, but I don’t think he’s the savior anyway.

SallyT : Isn’t it too late for someone new to come into the race?

Chernynkaya : Thanks, KQ.

SallyT : Didn’t I read that the pipeline was one of the issues of the OWS?

KQµårk 死神 : It’s kinda like the heartbeat of the hardcore baggers. They don’t have as much influence as they think but it’s a mirror image of FDL etc. So it’s a good comparison that way.

choicelady : Chris and all – I am hearing that Newt is already sinking in the polls, and he’s not done much in Iowa. That’s pretty amazing! Once he tanks, then there is only Romney – unless (oh gag me) JEB moves in. But he got caught up in a Medicare fraud in the 1980s that we can hope will surface – that’s why Papa B. lost the chance to have Jeb as Prez.

Chernynkaya : CL–no worries–I can’t remember either–and I put it there!

Chernynkaya : Chris–that’s a fact.

Chernynkaya : KQ–edumacate me: How influential is Red State? Does it represent the Baggers only?

choicelady : Cher – thank you, I missed that whilst I was not paying attention!

ChrisR266 : Cher: The President just isn’t going to get a break by corporate media until it becomes a done deal that NO GOPTEA candidate can whip his butt.

Chernynkaya : CL–On Daily Planet this week I put up the 47 companies lobbying for Tar Sands. I’ll find it later for you.

SallyT : You got it, CL. They also are heavy supporters for PM in Canada.

choicelady : Chris – how AWFUL that weather sounds! Yikes! I squeezed out on a really nice day, and I feel very lucky!

KQµårk 死神 : CL the Canadians already have it though from Alberta to Vancouver.

choicelady : Sally – if the Canadians don’t want it and we’re not all that hot about it, who’s pushing it (outside of the oil companies, I get that.)

KQµårk 死神 : But like I said behind the scenes conservatives are very very angry at this GOP house and they hate their presidential candidates.

SallyT : And, the gas is going overshore for the most part.

ChrisR266 : Choice: Be glad you left Ohio when you did–we went from 29 to 67 to 35 in an 18 hour period; thunder, ice, rain, winds, uck.

Chernynkaya : Did you all see the big huge LIE in NYT about Obama’s speech to Jewish donors? Saying he didn’t mention Palestine?

choicelady : Chris – yeah, I don’t think coughing your lungs out is the preferred “core strengthening” routine. My chiropractor said I could re-injure my back coughing, but so far it’s just new aches, not related to the awful ones earlier. I can live with these.

SallyT : Also, the Canadians don’t like the pipeline because they will have to do more fracking to get the natural gas to build it.

Chernynkaya : KQ, It is maddening! (About the fact that the media meme is that Dems cave never the R’s !!!!!

choicelady : KQ – thank you. I could not remember what you’d said last week. It’s showing up beautifully tonight.

Chernynkaya : Speaking of which, Funk is bogarting the toddies.

ChrisR266 : Choice: Glad to hear he’s putting that health to good use. I do love that guy.

choicelady : Chris – I’m sorry to hear that, although as with all of us, it may be more than we wanted to know about one another? AdLib has stomach flu. I’m coughing like anything, you’re draining, kes is queasy and achy, Sally is afflicted – not good for a lot of us. Funk is in good shape so is making the hot toddy run for us all.

Chernynkaya : Chris–at least you still HAVE a core. Mine is lost somewhere…

ChrisR266 : Fill me in, we’re discussing? I didn’t even read down the thread, sorry.

SallyT : They don’t want it.

SallyT : But, he will make the Neb and the Repub Gov of Nebr happy.

ChrisR266 : Cher, I’m much better, but the sides still hurt from all the coughing–my core isn’t what it used to be, LOL.

SallyT : CL, he won’t make him happy if he says no period.

Chernynkaya : Oh, sorry to hear that Chris. Fell better!

Chernynkaya : Agree, Sally. Not just because of jobs–environmen t trumps jobs. BTW did any of you catch the comment from Escribicat about the offer her brother got to run the pipeline across his property? $20K A MONTH.

KQµårk 死神 : NP CL it’s Kanji for Shinigami or soul reaper.

choicelady : SAlly – that’s pretty daring and risky. Issa will accuse him of treason! I think he should just soft peddle it – say it will be taken into consideration, but NOW, tah-dah- here is the endurance of the payroll tax cut!!!

ChrisR266 : Hi Choice. My sinuses are draining like Niagara falls, so it appears I fit right in around here tonight.

KQµårk 死神 : The problem is the whole cave construct which is a joke on both sides. I mean the GOP did not get allot of what they wanted but the cave meme is never on the GOP side in the media.

SallyT : Only 500 temp jobs here. Therefore more research is needed.

ChrisR266 : Sniffly, but well, Cher. We had “make your sinuses crazy” weather this week and mine have not recovered yet.

SallyT : I say he should sign the bill and say no to the pipeline and follow up with the facts that it won’t creat jobs in the US but more in Canada.

choicelady : Hey KQ – tonight I can see your symbols instead of weird little boxes. VERY cool. Can you remind me what they represent again? No retention sad to say.

Chernynkaya : Good to hear it, KQ. Me too–I’m good. (spits on self in lieu of Jewish grandma.)

KQµårk 死神 : I’m OK.

choicelady : Chris – great to see you, but a lot of us are under the weather including AdLib and kes who are not here. Hope YOU are well?

KQµårk 死神 : Without that 1.5% we could hit another quarter or two of negative growth and that would be much worse for Dems.

Chernynkaya : Chris! How are you?

Chernynkaya : OH! HI KQ!!

ChrisR266 : Evening everyone, hope the holidays have made you all merry and bright.

Chernynkaya : Sally, I just meant the stimulative effects of the extra $$ of the tax deduction, which one big economist said is 1.5% GDP.

SallyT : Cher, I really don’t know the answer. They also said that if the extension don’t go thru the economy reports will have to be changed.

choicelady : If all that is demanded is that he ‘speed up’ the pipeline, his message is “protect working families” and we’ll talk about the pipeline soon.

SallyT : Not no job creator!

SallyT : The reports out show that pipeline might be 500 jobs but temporary jobs.

Chernynkaya : Sally, I know you do. You and I had that long discussion with KQ the other day. Based on that, here’s my question: POLITICALLY, which is better/worse for Obama: the payroll tax which will help the economy, or being seen as caving?

choicelady : Cher – I read during the debt ceiling debacle that some things such as Social Security might be immune from the shutdown. I don’t know though.

KQµårk 死神 : reading RS sorry

SallyT : I don’t think he can keep letting them blackmail him. They come off the stronger to many.

KQµårk 死神 : Funny ready RS today they are complaining how much the GOP has caved on the omnibus. Every stinky rider they put forth was rejected save for that stupid light bulb thing. They are mad as hell over their because the real budget is actually going up $3 billion in 2012.

SallyT : Cher, I am afraid he will look like he is caving, too.

Chernynkaya : But if it’s shut down, of course people will get hurt. but in the long run–depending on R blackmail, it might be better.

choicelady : Cher – Yes! I’ve read that and agree. I do not think Obama thinks he’s God, but he sure has catlike tendencies that I greatly admire. No one owns a cat. Cats occasionally own you.

Chernynkaya : CL–fabulous analogy!! OT but I read this: You give a dog food and water and they think you’re god; you give a cat food and water and they think THEY are god.

choicelady : Cher – I’m for letting it shut down IF those in need don’t get hurt AND Congress has to convene on Christmas Day. Serve ’em right.

Chernynkaya : CL, I talk him down all the time. He grudgingly agrees, but on a gut level, he feels Obama caves. I think that is how many people feel. Even when presented with the facts, perception matters, and the President must deal with that. I truly feel it is important. There is a fellow I follow on twitter–“The Only Adult.” He worships Obama–to the point of being a but creepy, IMO. But even HE said, Shut down the govt.” See, people are at their wit’s end.

choicelady : Hah – I just figured this out. Obama is like a cat, patient, focused, quiet, fixed. Dubya and the Baggers are all unruly, un-housebroken, untrained young dogs who still pee on the floor and chew the slippers then run away. Americans have more cats but tend to prefer dogs with their slavering servility UNLESS, of course, it’s their floor being peed on and their slippers being chewed. Cats? No problem. Self reliant. Calm. We like that about cats.

choicelady : Cher – tell your adorable husband Obama strategizes, uses patience and stealth, then moves in for the kill. That’s not caving. The PL will dump on him no matter what he does, and we HAVE to keep the government running. Or hang up 535 stockings (less those who are not Christians) in the Rotunda. Actually – that might be kinda fun now I think about it. Keep the Dominionist Baggers IN the Capitol building for Christmas, WORKING. Hmmm – looks better every moment!

Chernynkaya : HAH! Cl, I just make addresses up from zip code maps. The Rep from that district would have to really know their neighborhoods to catch me–but on emails it doesn’t matter. You can’t even write to most without a local address.

choicelady : Cher – I can’t recall who, but I once used the address of a monastary to write someone. They never noticed. Bet the monks were puzzled when letters to a woman showed up there though!

Chernynkaya : But politically, Obama will be seen as caving. Weather we agree or not doesn’t matter to the voters. My husband thinks he caves! And he is a supporter. This just really looks bad. I am distraught.

choicelady : Cher – I don’t want a signing statement. The PL already excoriate him for having them which EVERY president has done since Monroe with only 3 using them to thwart the laws. Since they believe only Bush did it, Obama cannot follow those footprints. I’d just ignore it. Cleaner actually.

Chernynkaya : CL–I write all the arsehole in Congress with lots of phony addresses and phone #s and get all their crap! I have to unsubscribe regularly.

Chernynkaya : CL, I would love for Obama to say OK and then write a signing statement or just agree and renege.

SallyT : Right Cher, I heard that from Dean too. I like that!

choicelady : Cher – I have an address in Omaha I use to write Nelson so now I get all his mewling, puking email. What a JERK.

choicelady : Cher – that’s GREAT info from John Dean!

SallyT : Bad news, we have to go thru all of this again in 2 mos.

Chernynkaya : Once again, it’s the fucking spinelss DEM in the Senate.

choicelady : Cher – that is EXACTLY what the Dems did in 1968, 1972, etc. etc. etc. We like this person but have some elusive and unachievable phantom reason to vote for the guy we hate. And we wonder why the Progressive Caucus is only 14.9% of the entire Congress?

SallyT : Now, this might be good for the Dems because it shows that the Repub are still fighting against the middle class going into the new year.

Chernynkaya : Here’s what John dean said about that pipeline thing: “I look forward to seeing the language. Congress cannot force the POTUS to make a decision on Keystone, other than to say no.”

SallyT : He just has to sign the bill and than say NO, I need more research time.

Chernynkaya : Funk–=great idea! Come back tho!

choicelady : Sally – rats, I’d not heard about the Pipeline issue. Damn. Well he still controls the standards – that gives us a lot if my ally, Bill McKibben would not tear strips off Obama for this.

SallyT : According to her show, it is only an extension of 2 mos and it doesn’t say the pipeline is going to be built but that obama has to speed up his decision.

Chernynkaya : Politically, it’s terrible, I fear.

Chernynkaya : OK, here’s my take. (And Fink–I am glad you brought it up!) I will C&P a comment from Steve Benen to illustrate my point: Consider, though, the significance of a quote like this one. “If Romney and Obama were going head to head at this point in time I would probably move to Romney,” said Dale Bartholomew, 58, a manufacturing equipment salesman from Marengo, Ill. Bartholomew said he agrees with Obama’s proposed economic remedies and said partisan divisions have blocked the president’s initiatives. But, he added: “His inability to rally the political forces, if you will, to accomplish his goal is what disappoints me.” Got that? This private citizen agrees with Obama, but is inclined to vote for Romney anyway — even though Romney would move the country in the other direction — because the president hasn’t been able to “rally the political forces” to act sensibly in Washington. That is heartbreaking, but it’s important — Republicans have an incentive, not only to hold the country back on purpose, but also to block every good idea, even the ones they agree with, because they assume voters will end up blaming the president in the end. And here’s a quote from a guy who makes it seem as if the GOP’s assumptions are correct.

funksands : BBL. I have a feeling I am going to kill off a bit of my liver tonight…

choicelady : Cher – blackberry brandy, exp. Maeschewitz, is a time honored solution for teething pain. We really need to stop being so bloody Victorian about such things!

SallyT : I just wish Obama hadn’t just said he would veto any bill with the pipeline.

funksands : Choice, its all over the web! It’s the biggest loss since Waterloo!!!

funksands : Ah, jumped the gun. Sorry. Sally she’s good at that sometimes. That’s why I’m still planning to be the future ex Mr. Maddow….

choicelady : funk – Huh? that’s a caving loss when you have certifiable wackos sitting in the House and too many seats in the Senate? How is that a CAVE?

Chernynkaya : Thanks CL! I actually felt good to say it out loud.

SallyT : I hear that Funk but Rachel Maddow made me feel better about it.

Chernynkaya : Funk, I was waiting to discuss that. I am actually very upset.

choicelady : Cher – NO. Not going to hell for giving kids Tylenol. Laudanum being illegal and unavailable, you did a very good thing. It’s not dangerous. Forgive yourself. No jury of babysitters would EVER convict you!

funksands : Choice, I do.

Chernynkaya : I gave mine Maneschewitz!

SallyT : None grew up acholics, tho.

funksands : 1. Two month extension of payroll tax cut 2. Extension of unemployment benefits 3. Obama must decide on Keystone pipeline in 2012 = GIGANTIC CAVING LOSS FOR DEMOCRATS AND CIVILIZATION. Did you all know that?

SallyT : I put whiskey on my babies gum while teething.

choicelady : funk – do you know The Arc? It’s a great organization for families facing all kinds of developmental disabilities. My husband is the advocate for the CA operation. I am very admiring of them both for their advocacy and, more, their services.

Chernynkaya : I have never admitted that!!

Chernynkaya : CL–I once gave some babies I was sitting (including my own) baby Tylenol to make them all stop crying, and to this day I am certain I am going to hell.

SallyT : I will CL but a little long for here. I think you would enjoy it.

funksands : Cher, I’ll check it out. Thanks.

choicelady : Sally! That sounds like a GREAT story! Share when you feel like it!

SallyT : I do Funk!

Chernynkaya : er, FUNK…

choicelady : OK all you responsible parents. Back in the Depression my aunt, a reporter, worked with a woman who had three kids and whose husband had left to find work. When asked what she did with the kids, she said, “Oh – no problem. I just give them all laudanum.”

Chernynkaya : Fink, do you follow Steve silverman on Twitter? he is a champion of autistic families.

funksands : Or maybe you do….

funksands : Well it has made me a much better person. You should have known me when I was an asshole.

SallyT : CL, I will have to tell you a story about my family and being tied to a tree.

Chernynkaya : Sally–you really aren’t –really! Nope.

choicelady : funk – I have an inkling of what you all go through. You are in our hearts.

Chernynkaya : I was the stupid kind of mom who took uppers when my son hit puberty to keep up. Shoulda done vodka.

choicelady : Sally! NEVER are you a bother! NEVER!

SallyT : Just myself, Cher. I feel I maybe on here way overboard during this time and I feel guilty. But thank you!

funksands : Choice: Word. Really tough on my wife. She is a living saint.

choicelady : funk – that makes sense. When my nephew ran amok at 13, his parents heard a story about a family whose developmentally disabled daughter would sneak out and have sex so they chained her to the radiator. She could move around the house but not OUT of it. The police were not unsympathetic, and my brother said every parent he knew had the same reaction – Yeah? So? Some things defy convention. Jack has helped many a parent allow his/her adolescent to live.

Chernynkaya : See, Funk, I thought you meant for the kid. heh!

funksands : Sally, like you could ever be a bother. Really. (rolling eyes)

Chernynkaya : Sally, you are NEVER a bother at all? What gave you that idea?

funksands : Cher, like I said.

SallyT : Thank, CL. I just wanted you all to know so you can understand why I may come across a bother. Too much time on my hands while on my butt.

Chernynkaya : Funk, that’ll work. But I think for the parents!

funksands : When anyone asks me “What do YOU recommend to deal with an autistic 12 year-old beginning puberty?” My repsonse is always: Jack Daniels

Chernynkaya : Sally, I hope you feel MUCH better soon.But still stay here.

SallyT : No problem Cher. KQ and I had discussed once Ball of Fire. That was for him.

choicelady : Oh Sally – I had NO idea you were struck low. I am so sorry! Glad you have something to do, even if it’s TV. Staying up with current events. BIG contribution to us all, thank you. Be well, dear friend – we should be sending a 6-month supply of hot toddies to everyone.

Chernynkaya : Sally, I saw the TCM post, and I love those movies but they showed them so recently I won’t really watch.

SallyT : This time of the year, my medical condition keeps me in bed most of the time. That is why I can keep you informed about what is on the TV. I can’t wait for spring!

Chernynkaya : Funk! Hi , and don’t forget the lemon.

choicelady : funk – Indeed. NO one says you have to wait for a toddy until you get sick. Pre-emptive strikes and all that.

Chernynkaya : Hey Sally! I would love for we three broads to be able to have Hot Toddies together.

choicelady : funk! Good for you! You’ll be our last man standing at this rate!

funksands : I think I’m going to go to the liquor store.

SallyT : Hi Cher. Yes, I saw Rachel mix up a drink that I think I could get into.

funksands : I’ve never felt better. Just thought you should know.

choicelady : Cher – yes, I did, and it’s a time honored remedy for what ails you UNLESS what ails you is stomach flu. Then – not so much.

Chernynkaya : CL–God does.

Chernynkaya : CL–did you just see that on Rachel? I want one now!

choicelady : Cher – CLEARLY God loves me more.

Chernynkaya : HAHA! Sorry but that image of the ladylike cough followed by the let-er-Rip got me. So glad about your back though. look what it did to Perry.

choicelady : kes – if you don’t have stomach involvement, I do recommend a hot toddy. It won’t cure you, but you won’t care.

choicelady : Hi Cher – about the same as kes. My “celebration” after a plane flight across country is a chest cold. With my back so much better (I am mostly pain free!!!) coughing is not good – could be a problem. So I cough in a very ladylike, gentle sort of way – until I can’t and let it rip! Other than THAT, I’m peachy.

Chernynkaya : Hi CL! How are YOU??

choicelady : Kes – I’m so sorry YOU are feeling punk, too! Must be the season to feel rotten, fa-la-la-la-la.. .

Chernynkaya : Kes, take GOOD care of yourself. I wish you didn’t have to go in tomorrow.

kesmarn : Thank you, Cher! Early bedtime tonight so that I can try to get it together before work time tomorrow.

Chernynkaya : Ohh dear! just saw that our kes is feeling punky too. Feel better kes!

Chernynkaya : Good evening and TGIF Planeteers! I’m subbing for our dear under-the-weathe r, AdLib, but as you know, I’m one of those substitutes who doesn’t make you do your schoolwork. More like Jack Black in School of Rock. I am a terrible typist, so please bear with me! So..Wassup?

kesmarn : Dear Vox Pals, I’m going to hit the time clock a bit early tonight to say that it appears that AdLib’s pregnancy is contagious. Over the last couple of hours I’ve started to feel pretty yucky — to use the medical terminology. I wish I could join y’all tonight because there’s so much to talk about. But unless Tim Tibow prays me up a mir’cle healin’, I’m afraid I’m down for the count. Have a great Friday evening and a great weekend if I don’t see y’all.

KQµårk 死神 : Take care AdLib. Hope you feel better soon. I’ll be in and out a bit myself tonight so I’ll see ya’ll later.

SallyT : Sorry to hear AdLib that you are not feeling better. I told you that debate would just make you sicker. Rest and relax. Cher can handle things. I will try to behave myself. I will wait for the good news, if I am included in those to know. See you later on here!

choicelady : AL – I honestly have no idea what would make you feel better. I fear you just have to ride this out. Even Jewish penicillin (sp?) is no good under these conditions. I’m so sorry for you!

choicelady : Hi funk – check your email. The AdLib story is there! About his initiative, not his illness. And AL – you’d better NOT be preganant – that’s waaaay too “Ahnold” for all of us!

AdLib : Funk – I sure feel like I’m pregnant…I’ve got the morning sickness…and afternoon and evening.

funksands : BBL, still at work and I need to go home.

funksands : (pins and needles)

AdLib : Funk – A great development on an initiative we’ve been working on, as things firm up, we will give Planeteers the exclusive scoop.

funksands : NOW you have my interest piqued. Ugh, I hate waiting…. Ad, could you be pregnant? That might be it.

AdLib : It’s all about momentum and this is great momentum indeed. I’m very excited!

choicelady : funk – I will write offline. But it is so COOL!

choicelady : AdLib – EVERYONE will be happy to see you. You mean the world to us. Just take it as you can. We understand.

funksands : What’s the good news?

AdLib : Thanks so much! Have a great evening! I may pop in here later.

choicelady : AdLib – it will come. I am still shaking with amazement! Lots of steps to go, but wow – how good this has been. And I bet if we get DS on board, our friends at CC will become much more engaged, too!

choicelady : BTW – I will be late, going out to dinner, but I will be here. Just rest and relax, AdLib. That is your only job right now.

AdLib : Wish we could clink our glasses tonight!

choicelady : AL – it’s on ice, just waiting for you! I am over the moon, and we WILL celebrate! GREAT first step!

AdLib : Thanks CL. And on a day with some great things to celebrate too! Have to save the champagne for Monday.

choicelady : A bit??? Poor you! You will be sadly missed, but GET WELL! Otherwise Santa brings only Pepto Bismol. Yuck.

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. I’m a bit under the weather so your moderator for this evening will be the brilliant and delightful Chernynkaya. Enjoy!