• Chernynkaya : Thanks!

  • invient : yup good job moderating. Good Night!

  • Chernynkaya : Cool, invient! Well, I’m signing off now, and htanks for joining!

  • invient : it is just a name I made up, my friend and I were working on a project and we wanted a cool sounding name for our company, which still has not formed (but its on its way)… I guess if we had to give it a definition it would be internal strife or envy for a goal.

  • Chernynkaya : It may be small, but you pack a punch.

  • invient : my lexicon is small

  • Chernynkaya : Screen name.

  • invient : what is a moniker?

  • invient : yeah, it seemed to evolve well. Getting late for me too, gotta wake up at 6:00 tomorrow and go bicycle riding….

  • Chernynkaya : Night, Sweetie!

  • SallyT : I had fun! Will see you all later! And, you did a great job my Cherry Blossom!

  • Chernynkaya : Are you here, invient? If so, what does your moniker mean?

  • SallyT : She did, she did.

  • Chernynkaya : And Sally said FIRT!

  • Chernynkaya : This was fun! I thought it would be harder, but with so many great peeps, it was a breeze!

  • invient : ah that didnt work

  • invient : <b>BOLD</b>

  • SallyT : Firt time, first time. Bold type, Cher!

  • SallyT : I hit a button while I was sending it the firt time. The type is getting bolder, Cher………… …..

  • Chernynkaya : Gee, folks, it’s getting late for me too. What say we call it a night>

  • Chernynkaya : Got it Sally. depressing.

  • SallyT : «link»

  • Chernynkaya : Nemesis–HAH! But thank you!

  • Chernynkaya : Bad link, Sally. but don’t worry–if it’s alternet, I have it bookmarled.

  • invient : also from our nemisis – «link»

  • SallyT : /sor«link» lternet.org/news /151577/obama_ad min_memo_on_medi cal_marijuana_st irs_dismay_and_a nger_ry Cher the link

  • Chernynkaya : My take too, invient!

  • SallyT : Here cher,

  • Chernynkaya : Everyone I know (most everyone) smokes weed. but I also know that in Cali, there is tremendous abuse of Medical marijuana prescriptions. It’s a farce. I don;t care at all, but I can see the crackdown coming.

  • invient : later Chris.

  • invient : Chris, how I see it is that Obama has not shown his true colors… he has an incentive to get re-elected and then he has no reason not to push for his more progressive agenda. He is acting like a left of center moderate now, so that when people vote in a democratic congress this next time they will not see a need to put a repub in the office to balance the system.

  • ChrisR266 : It was so enjoyable to talk to you all this evening. Have a great weekend.

  • Chernynkaya : Thanks, sally.

  • Chernynkaya : Totally agree, Chris! And I really do think that fewer people are falling for that crap form them.

  • invient : yeah, do previous patients obeying the law get grandfathered in? It just seems unfair to say , “Hey this behavior is okay” then when people do it, “BTW, put these steel ‘bracelets on’ and hop in the back of my car!” … did the private prisons need more bed-fillers.

  • SallyT : Cher, I got it from an AlterNet Alert.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: This left angst thing is starting to wear old. The left has made more positive gains over the last two years than in the last 20. Good things in life take a long time and no small amount of effort. I’ll take three steps forward and one step back as long as we are net two steps ahead.

  • Chernynkaya : Anyine have a link? If not, I’ll find it.

  • SallyT : In fact, I just saw that come up in my emails.

  • SallyT : I don’t like that either, Invient.

  • Chernynkaya : WOW, I’ll check that out. Stupid.

  • invient : A memo was released, and I read the article in the Denver post about it… basically it says they will now be targeting dispensaries and anyone on the premise can be prosecuted.

  • ChrisR266 : Invient: I agree with you about weed.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, I don’t know. I see so much angst on the Left that I worry no matter what happned now, they will BELIEVE that Obama wanted to make those cuts.

  • ChrisR266 : Thanks to both of you, as you offer perspective from the audience for the concert and those who are doing the conducting and playing.

  • Chernynkaya : invient, that’s a really interesting take. And I didn;t know he re-criminalized weed. When did that happen?

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: I got the sense that the rumors first came from subversives, but it backfired on them when the Dems in both houses came out unified. I got the feeling it was one big well orchestrated concert for the Democrats in the end. They backed Boehner further into the corner.

  • invient : Chris, I actually do think it was helpful. I think the president was just prodding the republicans and the issues to see where to go… he knows now with little blow back that his base and the independents will not tolerate certain cuts. BTW I dislike that he decided to re-criminalize weed, which I see no incentive for him doing.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, as I said earlier, I question who put that rumor out ther, and why.

  • SallyT : I don’t think it was helpful and especially because they are giving to much time for people to speculate about what it might be.

  • ChrisR266 : Good sleeping, Khirad and Patsy.

  • SallyT : Patsy, you can’t go until you help us clean up! No, you can. Good night!

  • Chernynkaya : OK, Khirad. See you on the Planet Soma!

  • invient : cher, yeah… I think they should so that people stop doing bath salts, that is just crazy… then again eating shrooms and licking frogs does not seem to sane either.

  • Chernynkaya : Take care and sweet dreams, Patsy.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, I think the consensus was that it was not helpful at all. Am I right?

  • Khirad : Well with Chris steering y’all back on track, I’m gonna mosey off to pastures of dreamland.

  • PatsyT : I must say good night folks.. hope you all have a great weekend!

  • SallyT : No problem, Cher. I wasn’t offering him up.

  • Chernynkaya : Sally! Hah! I’ll stick with my Laughing Buddha.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: well, I am curious about something. Do people here think that all the “leaking” about what was on and off the bargaining table this week was productive/posit ive or counterproductiv e?

  • Chernynkaya : invient–I think they should at least decriminalize almost all drugs. but that’s not gonna happen.

  • SallyT : Cher, my husband talks like a teamster and has a trucker’s belly.

  • Khirad : In the Hindu texts it does appear to be more of that sort, yes. I think we’re dealing with a few different plants over time. Certainly the Soma/Haoma used in current Zoroastrian ritual is not the White Haoma described in the texts, but a ceremonial substitute. Crap, I said I wasn’t gonna get started on this…

  • invient : should they legalize psychotropics?

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Mine’s Irish (still a citizen of the homeland). So as you can imagine, I have to look hard sometimes, LOL.

  • Chernynkaya : So, what’s on the menu now?

  • Chernynkaya : Khirad–and he looks like Buddha belly!

  • SallyT : Night Sabreen

  • PatsyT : Sorry to hear that Sabeen… Hope it clears up

  • invient : later sabreen

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: As I had to realize, reluctantly, some of my husband’s words are wise, as well. Sucks, but even they stumble into wisdom.

  • Chernynkaya : Take care Sabreen!

  • Chernynkaya : I think it was a psychotropic.

  • Khirad : That’s funnier if you know her hubby is Chinese.

  • Sabreen60 : I still get the spam message after clearing my cache so I’ll have to let hubby look at it. Good night all and have a peaceful one.

  • Chernynkaya : Gawd. My hubby speaks Yoda to me all the time. It gets old.

  • Khirad : Aldous Huxley is who in part turned me on this whole path. And for the record, I’m of the opinion it was a stimulant of some sort. Or at least its more clearly described as such in the Zoroastrian texts – hinting at an older Aryan ritual usage of the plant.

  • invient : not if aubrey de grey as anything to say about it

  • ChrisR266 : “when 900-years-old you reach, look as good you will not.”

  • Chernynkaya : Chris! Yesk!

  • ChrisR266 : Good night Adonai:

  • Chernynkaya : See you, Adonai!

  • PatsyT : LOL Cher !

  • Chernynkaya : Dang. Glad you realized I was trying to type “soma.” Thanks. BTW, Aldous Huxley used that term for the drug in Brave New World.

  • SallyT : DReam of cookies AD.

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night ADONAI !

  • ADONAI : “Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealously. The shadow of greed, that is.” ~Yoda

  • ChrisR266 : Sleep well, Adonai. Good to read you as always.

  • Khirad : Later AD.

  • ChrisR266 : Yesk: Gefeltafisk for the 21st century.

  • invient : adios AD

  • ADONAI : Well kids, it’s that time. Now now. No tears. We knew it couldn’t last forever. I only ask you remember me as I was. totally awesome. Good night folks. Peace be with you

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy, it sound like a new KY product: Yesk! for those intimate moments.

  • Khirad : Oh god, let’s not get started on the great Soma/Haoma debate. I’m to tired for that here. :-)

  • invient : sounds like a birth control pill…

  • PatsyT : Yesk that could be the name of a new Big Pharma product

  • Chernynkaya : In my Hindu studies classes we spent ages trying to figure out what ever happened to the sacred plant some. It’s apparently extinct.

  • ChrisR266 : Glad you said so, Cher. I was leavin’ that one alone.

  • SallyT : No, Cher, not your i’s. Your c’s maybe.

  • Chernynkaya : HAHa–i said yesk!

  • Chernynkaya : Yesk, those keens get sore with age too!

  • ChrisR266 : Khirad: See, you do get it. Tapas nourishes the force in us all. ;-)

  • Chernynkaya : OK, I thought you were makin’ fun of my eyes. :-)

  • ADONAI : I love tapas. Especially chicken.

  • Khirad : Tapas also makes excellent grub when bar hopping in Spain, I’m told. :-P

  • Chernynkaya : If that’s not “the force” I don’t know what is!

  • invient : SyFy actually had Scifi on its programming for that long!

  • SallyT : I’m not a skeptic! I said I kinda like Animist beliefs.

  • ADONAI : HA! keens

  • ADONAI : It’slike the story I saw of a guy who went to a similar place and the word “pain” was suggested to him. Without actually touching him, only hovering his hand over an area, an old Chinese guy was able to put him on his keens with bolts of pain.

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, sure-tapas. Definitely.

  • Chernynkaya : I see you now, Sally. I just lost track of folks there.’

  • ChrisR266 : I spent the afternoon chopping vegetables for a kick ass gazpacho and watching Star Trek movies 2, 4, and 6 on SyFy. There’s another focus for what the force is really all about.

  • Khirad : Essential energy and heat. Enjoy «link»

  • Chernynkaya : Khirad, he was in one if those Nat Geo shows too–doing crazy stuff.

  • SallyT : Yes, Cher, I’m here. It the type getting bolder????

  • Chernynkaya : Sally–glad you’re still around, even if you are a skeptic.

  • ADONAI : :)

  • Chernynkaya : Ad–damn you–mnade me LOL. Is Sally still here?

  • PatsyT : Opps hard to type while eating Ice Cream

  • Khirad : Well, FWIW, that was a great story Cher. Now, I’ve heard of Buddhist monks and Hindu yogis (where the practice came from) raising their own temperature, but that was quite another level in degrees of difficulty.

  • SallyT : Cher, I believe you. Sweetie, I have burning eyes after drinking too.

  • ADONAI : I loeft a lot. Though I find it interferes with my liafting.

  • Chernynkaya : It was awesome, AD.

  • ADONAI : Great story Cher! That’s some weird,wild stuff!

  • ChrisR266 : I get you fully, Cher. The moments typing I appreciate.

  • Chernynkaya : Who loeft, please?

  • ChrisR266 : Good night, Funk.

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, did people leave while I spent an hour typing? Bye and I hope you sleep well.

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night Kes..

  • SallyT : Night Kes, see you later!

  • kesmarn : Night, funk! I’ll google Bartolo.

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, I have no doubt about the force. When I was studying with my rabbi, there was this old Chinese guy in the building. My rabbi said he thought that guy was the real deal. well, one day I took a peek, He was a Tai Chi master. He spoke no english, was about this height of Yoda and about 500 years old, but he could break piano wire with his chest. Once, I went to see him when I had a pain. He waved his arms around me, and then located the problem. He had an interpreter, who told me that if it got too hot, I should just say “hot.” well. That master found a spot on my back and didn’t even touch me, but the burning was intense! I mean HOT. I could only take a second of it. When I left, my friend who met me asked what had happened to me–she didn’t know where I’d been. I asked why she asked and she told me that light was coming outta my eyes! True Story

  • invient : night kes

  • ChrisR266 : Golden slumber, Kes.

  • PatsyT : All the Best to you FunkSands!

  • ADONAI : Nite kes!

  • ChrisR266 : Dig it, Patsy! good for you.

  • kesmarn : I think I may need to call it a day as well. 12:30 a.m. here. Good night, friends!

  • ChrisR266 : Invient: as another great adherent of the force, Frank Herbert, reminds us, “fear is the mindkiller.”

  • ADONAI : It’s hard to stay on the Light Side. I value anger too much.

  • PatsyT : Khirad… I just got out the Ice Cream – French Vanilla -Spanish Peanuts and Chocolate sauce

  • funksands : Night CL, I’m off too.

  • ChrisR266 : Ah, Invient, you have nothing to fear from me.

  • SallyT : Enjoy, CLady!

  • ADONAI : Nite choice!

  • Khirad : Later CL, by the way, where did our mod go? I’m off to storm the liquor cabinet.

  • invient : I guess is it is obvious… I am on the dark side, you better not become my professor…

  • kesmarn : c’lady, sweet dreams and enjoy that vacation!

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night ChoiceLady … You have a wonderful break !

  • SallyT : I kinda like Animist beliefs.

  • funksands : CL, I don’t think it has anything to do with Obama, I think the DC is like Atlantis, slowing sinking beneath the waves, utterly out of touch with reality in the rest of the nation.

  • ChrisR266 : Enjoy the vacay, Choice. You’re much deserving.

  • ADONAI : Obama was the first politician I ever saw driving his own car. Driving himself. How quaint I thought.

  • choicelady : Ok everyone – I’ve hit the moment when the computer is slowing down and so am I. I shall bid you all a good night and sweet dreams. Probably won’t be here the next two Fridays – VACATION TIME! See you after that!

  • ChrisR266 : Invient: need you ask?

  • invient : Chris, what side are you on?

  • choicelady : Sally – he DOES go into stores with his kids and makes them pay in cash. He’s no slouch when it comes to regular things.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: And, it makes me very happy. Funny, my students no longer look at me as that quirky prof anymore. When they ask, I tell them I believe in the force, and they accept that with nary a smirk.

  • ADONAI : I know how much a gallon of milk costs. Too much.

  • ADONAI : we try to be funk :)

  • SallyT : CLady, I bet he does too and Michelle told him to pick a gallon up on his way home.

  • ADONAI : The oldest religions on record center on one thing. Life force.

  • choicelady : Chris – you now have an official sponsor for The Force

  • ChrisR266 : The life force is at base, what we have first, and always until our death.

  • choicelady : funk – I do not disagree about DC. But someone – sorry, I forget who – posted yesterday that Obama’s life is NOT like that of most presidents. He, like Clinton, came up some hard roads and spent time in hard places. I know where he did community organizing, and it was NOT a pretty or easy place to be. He worked his way through college, held regular jobs, and in that sense he’s more grounded than most. That was Clinton’s strength, too. I bet he DOES know what a gallon of milk costs and a loaf of bread. That’s what I mean about him. The others around him? Not so much – but he’s his own person, always has been.

  • ADONAI : Khirad, most definitely. “We must break our attachments. The things that control us.”

  • funksands : You are so polite. People from Kentucky always are.

  • ChrisR266 : Khirad: Fantastic! Indeed.

  • Khirad : By the way, Happy Birthday South Sudan!

  • PatsyT : Ha Ha Funk ! Thats the ticket!

  • funksands : Kes, google Bartolo Colon. Enjoy.

  • ADONAI : HA! good one funk

  • kesmarn : invient, keep us posted on that. They’re doing some amazing stem cell stuff now, too. Hafta keep fighting on that front.

  • funksands : Answer: 30 seconds after a lobbyist tells 5 congressmen that he’s not picking up the tab?

  • Khirad : Yoda was totally a Sadhu.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: I’m going to have to do some reading to catch up on this Secret thing. It does sound very aimed at the vulnerable, to me.

  • ADONAI : how long?

  • funksands : Adonai, how’s this? How long would you have to stay in Washington to find 5 serious people?

  • ADONAI : “Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.”

  • Khirad : Enjoy, Jedi knights «link»

  • PatsyT : AD Darn that sounded like a good set up

  • funksands : CL – There you and disagree slightly. I think DC has finally been hermetically sealed from the rest of the nation.

  • Chernynkaya : Another problem I have with The Secret is that there is no text to back it up. It is merely magical thinking–Santa Clause stuff. And it ask for no good works or ethics. Pie in the sky. I fully understand why it is appealing–life is suffering. That’s the First Noble Truth, but positive thoughts are just do simplistic. Nd it DOES blame the victim, as kes and Cl said.

  • Khirad : Much dualism in Star Wars there was.

  • ChrisR266 : Adonai: The force is with us, all.

  • ADONAI : Patsy, It actually wasn’t a joke. Funk was being witty.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: Yay! About friggin time some institutional arm recognizes and honors the power of the force.

  • ADONAI : I love the Force. Most of my spiritual beliefs are based off it. and it does very much mirror Eastern religion. Buddhism and Zoroastrianism in particular.

  • invient : kes, I have no idea. Mirasol I think is half THC and half CBD so it may cancel the effects. Anyway the Burzynski guy in Texas has a documentary hosted on vemeo which is really good. It seems like the FDA went after him after a company started patenting his research, and he is only allowed to treat people with sever glioma (w/e that means). My uncle has cancer so I have taken an interest in stuff of that nature.

  • kesmarn : Khirad, I’m not sure. I have given Marisol to patients, though. I didn’t even know it was legal before that!

  • choicelady : funk – no I think Obama overall is more in touch with reality than most presidents.

  • ChrisR266 : Joseph Campbell was a smart man. His ideas about the fundamental human instinct, compassion, are quite insightful.

  • PatsyT : I haven’t heard that joke … do tell

  • choicelady : Chris – I work with the Military Religous Freedom Foundation that defends all beliefs and no belief from the predatory Dominionist Christians in the military. One of their sets of clients are “Jedis” – a handful military people who DO believe in The Force. So there – you are totally protected in our eyes and in the Constitution. Go for it!

  • ADONAI : HA!

  • ChrisR266 : Choice and Funk: The meme works because anyone of us regular people who have tried to get ahead through other means know it is just not workable unless mom and dad leave you great big nest eggs to work with. We’re all at the mercy of the system that really works only for the mega wealthy.

  • funksands : Adonai, I know this joke!

  • Khirad : Is that like the same as Cannabinol?

  • kesmarn : That’s very cool, invient. In Ohio Marisol is legal with a prescription. I wonder if that would have the same effect. (Pill form of cannabis.)

  • ADONAI : How long would you have to stay in Washington to find 5 serious people?

  • Khirad : So, Eastern Religion then. You know Joseph Campbell was behind a lot of that Star Wars stuff.

  • funksands : CL – Do you think that Obama is surrounded by too many “serious people” to consider something like that?

  • ADONAI : Indeed Khirad,I agree. My belief has always been that the world sucks. Try to make peace with that the best way you can.

  • ChrisR266 : Khirad: I’ll stick with the force, thanks.

  • choicelady : funk – that’s why Obama’s meme about tax breaks for corporate jets resonates with people – they are sick of the rich getting all the breaks for NOTHING. The Dem budget reflects the president’s values. If they are smart enough to know it “will play in Peoria” then more power to them.

  • invient : kes, «link»

  • Khirad : Well, religion at least offers more depth, if one is looking for it. Though same initial desire in both, yes.

  • kesmarn : invient, had not heard of that. I’ll have to do some research.

  • choicelady : invient – THC inhibits cancer growth? I hate pot but that makes it worth rethinking.

  • choicelady : Khirad – “The Secret” has screwed up more people than I can count. And Oprah IS one of the purveyors of it.

  • Khirad : Yeah, I meant before the whole Kamakazi surprise party.

  • ADONAI : Khirad, I wouldn’t call them dumb. No more than people who turn to religion. We just want something to tell us it’s gonna be o.k. To justify whatever belief system we may have. I heap my scorn on the people who take advantage of this very natural, universal need.

  • choicelady : Cher – sorry I missed it. I will go back and look, thanks!

  • funksands : Adonai, those are the tax increases the GOP is REALLY defending. Not the income tax rates, but the cap gains rates. No one that is Filthy Wealthy earns W-2 income anyway.

  • choicelady : Dem Senators DO Obama’s tax cuts!

  • invient : Kes, have you heard of Stanislaw Burzynski? Also there is a lot of stuff out there that shows THC inhibiting cancer growth.

  • choicelady : funk – I like YOUR plan even better even though I have a trifling amount of dividend income. It’s UNEARNED, and we should reward work, NOT idleness. You know we are back in the mindset of the 1870s! It’s scary how much we are replicating the idea that UNEARNED income is ‘magic’ and work is bad. Your idea is very very good.

  • Khirad : I knew the Secret was like a phenomenon, like the Twilight series, but people actually took it seriously? Wow. I guess I want to call them dumb, but desperation (and love) can make you do pretty stupid things, I suppose.

  • ADONAI : That’s a pretty good plan funk.

  • Chernynkaya : Time out–I need to read comments–please carry on w/o me for a sec.

  • funksands : Cher, I think its about as good as its EVER going to get this year or next.

  • Chernynkaya : I love the demm budget funk. AI posted it yesterday. Cl–it’s in Vol 111.

  • choicelady : funk – I think we will have to UNDO the tax cuts in increments the way they were put in. If we start with $1 million, then go down, and down again, as the economy picks up – that will be good. I think it’s always wise to go where you get the LEAST flack, so sure. Begin with “millionaires and billionaires” and work out from there.

  • ADONAI : I don;t care who was in office. The moment Pearl Harbor was bombed, an asskicking was coming.

  • kesmarn : c’lady. Like many she thought she could “visualize” her way to health and skip treatment.

  • funksands : CL – The Hill. Go figure. Of course the title of the article is “Dem Senators abandon Obama on tax cuts”

  • Chernynkaya : Adonai! HAH!

  • SallyT : AD, you and cookies………

  • Khirad : Scary to think how that Axis thing might have worked out if it were Wilson, not FDR in office.

  • funksands : My plan would be even better. Leave the income tax rates as is and double the cap gains and dividend taxes. Check and mate. Not only would the GOP have to defend hedge fund managers and Wall Street, but they’d have to vote against keeping income rates where they are.

  • kesmarn : Sabreen that does happen from time to time. I think you need to clear your cache on your computer to get it fixed.

  • Chernynkaya : Sabreen, I once got that spam thing too. I don;t know–a glitch in the matrix.

  • PatsyT : Oh Sabeen try clearing your history and/or cache and logging in again

  • SallyT : Kes, I am sure he did.

  • choicelady : funk – where did you hear this great news? I really like that Dem budget stuff!

  • ADONAI : “Do you remember a time when cookies came fresh out of the oven? Pepperidge Farm remembers. And do you remember a time when women knew their place and certain folk weren’t allowed on golf courses? Pepperidge Farm remembers.”

  • choicelady : kes – OMH – I’m SO sorry that that stupid book cost your friend her life! How dreadful!

  • kesmarn : Henry probably had Adolph’s pic in his office, too, Sally.

  • Sabreen60 : Ok, what happened. I kept getting a reading a response from “Info” that said “I DON’T LIKE SPAM”.

  • choicelady : Khirad – yes, is it not amazing that so many famous men got that way in part because of their hateful natures?

  • invient : funk, 500k would be a ok compromise, a millions is just a surrender. Less than 2% of the population makes 250+, so it would only effect 2%, its not like they are going to anger that many of their voters by doing it. I would hope it would sell better.

  • kesmarn : That is one of the most pernicious lies ever devised, Cher. Truly “blame the victim.”

  • funksands : They are releasing a budget that Sanders, Feinstein, and Durbin all like, Conrad is behind it that leaves SS untouched and only slightly modifies Medicare. Schumer is pushing them hard to move the bar to 1 million. I think I like this plan.

  • SallyT : Hitler’s idol was Henry Ford. Had his picture in his office.

  • choicelady : funk – if that’s where they think it can work, then that’s fine. I “get” the problems with the 250K level – everyone forgets it’s AFTER deduction income, but since they do, yes – let’s hit the 500K and up. NOBODY can call that “middle class” except Newt.

  • Chernynkaya : kes, I was a cancer patient advocate, remember? I saw some sickening shit when tht book came out. It still lingers.

  • Chernynkaya : CL– OK, I will never become an Irish comedian who is outrageous!

  • SallyT : Funk, I say that will sell better.

  • ADONAI : i agree that it will probably “sell better”, but i don’t like it. It should stay where it is.

  • ChrisR266 : Funk: They’re trawling. It won’t sell better.

  • kesmarn : Wow…have you hit on a sore point with me. The Damned Secret and cancer patients. The Secret cost a friend her life.

  • Khirad : Ah, Henry Ford. An industrialist that did for anti-Semitism what Woodrow Wilson did for the good ol’ hate on Blackie. Good times. Why wouldn’t we want to go back to that more innocent age?

  • choicelady : Cher – OK if that’s where you and Griffin intersect, fine. But nowhere else please! She’s nasty.

  • funksands : So, the Senate budget committee is “leaking” their budget tomorrow. The big play that they are making is abandoning the 250K and up tax hike. They are going with either 500k or 1 million because it will sell better. What do you think?

  • Chernynkaya : CL– to say nothing about how it made cancer patients feel!

  • PatsyT : Khirad Thanks I am sharing that also

  • ChrisR266 : Khirad: Bwaaahahaha! Wonderful. Thank you, this is excellent. I have a few people I will send this along to in the a.m.

  • ADONAI : Kathy Griffin is crazy. Btu very entertaining.

  • choicelady : Oh I like Oprah OK – just think she’s become really materialistic and bought into that “Secret” crap waaay too much. If you read that, it translates into “the Jews brought the Holocaust on themselves because they did not visualize hard enough”. The “see it and be it” crapola NEVER points out that there are powerful people out there saying NO to you!

  • Chernynkaya : yes, funk. Aks away.

  • Chernynkaya : I just meant I share Kathy =griffin’s skepticism about St oprah.

  • ADONAI : you just did

  • funksands : Can I ask you a question?

  • ADONAI : I’m totally with ya Sally!

  • choicelady : Cher – I loathe Kathy Griffin, so no. Won’t be calling you THAT.

  • SallyT : He was his secretary in the WH and was with him until death. PBS doesn’t lie, AD!

  • ADONAI : me?

  • Chernynkaya : funk?

  • Khirad : Chris, on Jews and comedy «link»

  • Chernynkaya : Khirad–exactly! I cannot see a jew electable. Plus, Lieberman pretty much spoiled the fun. Now any jew running would be accused of working for Israel.

  • choicelady : Khirad – everyone “knows” Jews manipulate behind the scenes with no accountability. Just ask Henry Ford.

  • funksands : Cher?

  • ADONAI : I agree with Sally. we have had a gay President. There’s some pretty good circumstantial evidence pointing heavily toward Buchanan having a “gentleman caller”.

  • kesmarn : Sally, interesting bit of history there!

  • funksands : Why do they care if Medicare is around in 80 years? They’ll be singing at the throne by then.

  • ChrisR266 : Neither am I, Cher and Choice. She lost her cachet in the 1990s.

  • kesmarn : Cher and c’lady, you’ve given me the courage to come out. I’m not an Oprah fan either.

  • Chernynkaya : AD– call me Kathy Griffin!

  • Khirad : I do think a Jew could get elected though. They would have to be – and I’m opening up the can of worms here – not obviously Jewish, sort of how Obama made white people feel ‘comfortable’. The fringe would really come out of the woodwork though. Good thing you guys control the media. …and hey, about that, how come you haven’t gotten a Jew elected yet, since you control EVERYTHING?

  • funksands : CL – See? I think that question can be asked in a way that wouldn’t denigrate the candidate, but expose them as unqualified.

  • SallyT : Kes, we had a gay President, Buchannan. But he wasn’t open about it.

  • choicelady : funk – that IS an amazing question! How can the End Times people project the health of America long term!

  • kesmarn : We don’t seem to be able to elect an openly gay person or a Jew, and yet Silvio Berlusconi EXISTS. Where is the logic?

  • ADONAI : YOU DARE BLASPHEME THE OPRAH!!??!!!

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: and Jews have better sense of humor than the rest of us. Empirically provable.

  • ADONAI : Good point funk

  • invient : Cher, err that is just wrong that religion has so much say in who gets elected. They make better leaders I tell ya!

  • funksands : Adonai, you just want to WATCH the end times. Different.

  • Chernynkaya : kes– re Oprah–heh! And I agree with CL about her. She’s no all that, IMO

  • ChrisR266 : I like me some Jews, Cher! Another group that values education and knows how to use it!

  • funksands : Ms. Bachmann, do you believe in the end times? Question 2: If it came tomorrow would it make you sad?

  • Chernynkaya : Chris–ya gotta stop recommending Jews, i tell ya! Debbiw w-s is another! ;-)

  • ADONAI : I yearn for the end times too. But for entirely different reasons. I still see the value of a well maintained budget.

  • kesmarn : ‘Zactly, funk. Talk about no skin in the game.

  • ChrisR266 : When 92 year old ladies on their death beds (like my best friend’s mother), a life long republican until 2008, are still raving luscious about Obama, you know we’re on the precipice of major change in this nation’s character. People know the real deal when they see it.

  • funksands : Cher, I seriously think that could get some traction if worded a bit more politely in the press.

  • Chernynkaya : funk–that it a very pertinent question.

  • funksands : Kes, seriously, why are we electing people that yearn for the end times to come tomorrow to run the budget committee?

  • Khirad : Yes, “openly” was very deliberate. ;-)

  • Chernynkaya : invient–never heard of that.

  • ADONAI : That’s the tallest hill to climb in my opinion as well khirad.

  • funksands : Oh wait, “openly”

  • kesmarn : funk, my son was always mystified as to why Beck peddled gold so fiercely right after he had a segment on the fact that the world was about to end. What was the point of a long-term financial strategy then? :lol:

  • funksands : Khirad, did you forget about Nixon?

  • Khirad : I’m still debating if I’ll see an openly gay World Leader in my lifetime. Probably. My money’s on Germany. But in the US, I still can’t say.

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy, we’ve come to accept –from our first days on this shore–that this IS a Christian nation. I don;t know if this is true, but I was taught that the original Jews here in the 13 colonies–the one who lived in NYC? Well, Wall St got it’s name because that was the walled part of the city where the Jews were segregated. but that might be a bubbameiseh–a lie.

  • ADONAI : invient: goodness no. First of all, Judaism is far, FAR older than Christianity. Second, everything else that was wrong about that.

  • SallyT : Kes, I’d probably still find cat hair under mine.

  • PatsyT : Funk they are digging themselves into an deep hole

  • ChrisR266 : I’m enamored with Debbie Wasserman-Schult z. She’s got it going on in the brains department, and has the rhetorical skills to do the brains justice.

  • funksands : Patsy, If I ran the GOP “debate” my first question would be, “Mr./Mrs. how can we count on you to address the long-term fiscal needs of our nation if you are convinced that world is going to end any day, and indeed wish it to?

  • kesmarn : If Oprah were Prez, we’d all be checking under our recliners every day to see what prizes awaited. It’d be great.

  • invient : Isnt a Jewish person a “Specialized Christian” since the old testament is in the Bible?

  • choicelady : Cher – don’t tell Jerry he’s too old to run for president!

  • Khirad : Point taken on that Cher. My lord, we’d see the anti-Semites really come out then. Which, as we’ve seen with Obama, would almost be refreshing.

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: As I read, Dayton, Cuomo, or Debbie Wasserman-schult z would be interesting considerations.

  • choicelady : Oprah is too materialistic for my taste. She is the one who asked Obama about why he did not get the long form certificate earlier – caving in on the idea he needed to “show his papers, BOY.” I like her a lot, but NOT in a position of authority, thanks.

  • ADONAI : A Jewish President would be HUGE! Just as big as Obama’s election. And I think we will see it one day. I have that much faith in this place.

  • PatsyT : How stupid is this country ? Jews and Muslins must play down their faith but Fundies get the green light every time!

  • Khirad : Dean would be 66. Still doable, I suppose, but so far I’ve not been sold on any bright hopefuls mentioned.

  • ChrisR266 : …Congress a CAR! And a vacay to Australia. WE might get something done then.

  • Chernynkaya : Khirad–it’s not something you can play down. The new World Order folks would go ballistic!

  • ADONAI : LBJ can’t take credit for Civil rights. All the good people who had to die before this country would pay attention are the ones who deserve the credit.

  • choicelady : Dean & Dayton? Sounds like the automat in NYC from the ’30s. Or a high-end foodie place today. Catchy though – might just work!

  • ChrisR266 : Oprah could give everyone in

  • kesmarn : Who for veep,then, Chris?

  • Chernynkaya : CL–dont tell Jerry what? I missed that. and yes, so you tell me, he’s gone guacamole.

  • invient : AD, its likely she would take a chapter from the corporate playbook and buy congress!

  • choicelady : Cher – don’t tell JERRY that! I’m not sure he knows who he is these days. I see signs of “Reagan disease” there. He avoids all unscripted events now. Scary.

  • Khirad : Yup Cher. Any Jew would have to play down the Jewyness.

  • ADONAI : Yep. she would be a great President. Who could buy her? She’s worth more than the Kochs

  • funksands : CL, I’ve heard worse. The guy is pretty level-headed.

  • kesmarn : AD, except LBJ would have that Civil Rights thingy to his credit while Dubya had…..NOTHIN’

  • invient : AD, Oprah would be great, no one can use the business/economi c angle on Oprah

  • Chernynkaya : Sanders is a stated socialist. Love him. But also Jewish.

  • choicelady : funk, Cher – Dayton may well be someone to watch closely. We’ve had great leaders from MN with the Farmer-Labor party. That is such an interesting idea for 2016.

  • ChrisR266 : LMAO, Oprah?

  • ChrisR266 : I might start a draft Dean for 2016 group.

  • ADONAI : I still think we need to push Oprah to run.

  • invient : lol

  • Chernynkaya : CL–1) he’s Jewish. 2) he’s too liberal 3) he;s Jewish.

  • funksands : Keep an eye out for Martin O’Malley – Gov. from Maryland. Good dude.

  • kesmarn : Thanks, funk. I like Dayton.

  • Chernynkaya : Thnaks, funk. That guy.

  • PatsyT : Yep Sally and he is great when pissed off at the oil company that is screwing up up the Yellowstone river

  • ADONAI : I think after too long LBJ and Bush would come to respect each other. Reminisce over the wars they lied this country into.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–Jerry would never make it as prez in his prime.

  • SallyT : Cher, And Bernie’s too old…………

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Mark Dayton. I think his capital does reside in how this shutdown standoff comes out. Dayton’s smart as a whip.

  • choicelady : Cher – why is Franken unelectable?

  • Khirad : Yup, I love Franken. But unelectable. Nor do I think he has any desire for the chief executive. Sometimes, it’s far better to hang around the Senate (as long as you have your faculties about you – I mean it about an age cap). Then you become almost as powerful, like Ted Kennedy did.

  • invient : Cher, Bernie Sanders? Probably more unelectable than Franken

  • funksands : Cher, Dayton. From the farm and labor party.

  • kesmarn : David…what was his name…MN Gov…?

  • choicelady : Cher – as with Jerry Brown, the Dems are playing fiscal hardball to show they are NOT tax and spend liberals. I hate it – it’s cheesy pandering – but I get it. What that means about Cuomo I’m not sure. Jerry? Just means that fer sher it’s MRS. Brown making the decisions! He seems vague, and she’s anything but. She’s the one who has hollered at the GOP leaders and probably lost them to any possible cause.

  • Chernynkaya : How about that governor in Minn? What his name?

  • SallyT : Pats, I love it when he got his branding irons out and burned those bills.

  • ChrisR266 : LBJ would kick his everlovin’ arse.

  • funksands : It’s gonna be a governor. After that last few years its going to be another 40 years before we see a Senator again.

  • ADONAI : Sally, that’s true. My “back to the kitchen” policy wouldn’t really fly :)

  • ChrisR266 : Khirad: yeehah! I’m game for that too.

  • Khirad : I woulda loved to see LBJ and W in a real dude ranch dust up.

  • Chernynkaya : I want somebody just like Obama in 2012–smart and clever. And with a heart. I think someone like Franken would be great, but he’s unelectable.

  • ADONAI : Mayor of Newark New Jersey I mean

  • kesmarn : On Cuomo, I have a lefty friend in New York who’s really sorry she voted for him. He is wielding the axe something fierce in the fiscal area.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: yeah, you have point. But the kids are getting jobs now, and they’re the ones who will be politically active in 2012 and beyond. Kids with no jobs don’t vote, either.

  • SallyT : Oh, AD, with your thinking on woman, you will get in trouble as Prez.

  • PatsyT : SallyT That could really catch on – that real cowboy thing!

  • Khirad : Booker, another one to look out for.

  • funksands : Martin O’Malley?

  • ADONAI : Thank you cher.

  • choicelady : Chris – the kids you teach yes. The ones who don’t have any deceent influences? Ummmm – verdict is still out.

  • SallyT : Patsy he is a real Cowboy. Not a fake like Bush.

  • ChrisR266 : Gillibrand will never get the left.

  • ADONAI : choice, Cory Booker.mayor of Jersey. Real bright kid.

  • Chernynkaya : I could vote for you AD.

  • Khirad : Gillibrand maybe. We’ll have to see how her star rises. Weiner could never have gotten the center.

  • invient : Chris, I know, he was just a hopeful of some people (including me).

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: I think Cuomo is a player.

  • Chernynkaya : Cuomo is pretty Right, fiscally.

  • ADONAI : I’ll be old enough to run in 2016. Just saying

  • choicelady : AD – who IS Booker?

  • choicelady : Patsy – I think that’s Gillibrand, and I understand she’s pretty middle of the road. Now Andrew Cuomo??? You may be onto something there!

  • ChrisR266 : Everybody stop worrying about the kids, LOL! They’ll be there.

  • Khirad : No on Cuomo, the seminal New Yorker thing does not play out West. Schweitzer would be a good VP choice.

  • PatsyT : Sally YES the gov from Montana!

  • funksands : Schweitzer pretty cool.

  • ChrisR266 : Invient: Weiner was never it politics for President.

  • ADONAI : So true Khirad. It really will be a totally open field.

  • SallyT : I kinda like the Govenor of Montana.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I think most adults (not the kids) have NO buyers remorse over Obama. Most mainline Dems, including people with REAL problems on foreclosure, health, etc., really like him. It’s the kids and upper middle class snots I worry about. They sat out 2010. Who knows if they learned their lessons?

  • invient : Khirad, so many had high hopes for Weiner, but that boat sank.

  • Sabreen60 : Cher, No worries.

  • ADONAI : HA! j

  • ADONAI : Booker is still an unjnown

  • PatsyT : How about that New Senator from New York Hillibrand or NY Gov Cuomo?

  • Khirad : I don’t think the candidate for 2016 is known to us anymore than Clinton was in ’92.

  • kesmarn : Wishful thinking on my part… but Van Jones is SO smart and charismatic…

  • funksands : Corey Booker

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, sorry Sabreen. I understood it wasn’t about me, but I was trying to reassure you that if that’s how I think, maybe the ones you are worried about think the same as I do.

  • ADONAI : Van Jones may not have the polish but he has the tenacity and that’s VERY important

  • ChrisR266 : Van Jones is not quite there yet. We need a Dean to warm the people up to Jones.

  • invient : Kes, I do not think Van Jones has a chance, he has the ‘socialist’ stigma on him

  • SallyT : I like Howard Dean.

  • ADONAI : Hmmm… Well Howard Dean was my next choice. And sorry to focus 2 elections ahead but I feel pretty confident that 2012 is already a foregone conclusion. So who’s next?

  • choicelady : Patsy – I’d vote for Dean even if he did stiff me and a group I’d put together to have dinner not with progressive people of faith but EVANGELICALS. We got dumped for them. See how much good THAT did!

  • Khirad : You shouldn’t even be asking that Kes.

  • ChrisR266 : Sabreen: I have yet to run into one white person who regretted their vote for the President. It ain’t about all that.

  • funksands : Did you know I went to high school with Jim Messina?

  • kesmarn : Like Howard Dean. REALLY like Van Jones but does he have a chance?

  • Khirad : Gore who?

  • Sabreen60 : Cher, Could you have misunderstood me? I wasn’t suggesting anything about you. I asked the question if some white people regretted voting for Obama because of the racial tension his presidency has caused or brought to the forefront. And for those who see his race as being problematiclem, would they vote for him again.

  • ChrisR266 : Gore should be done with politics.

  • ADONAI : You;re probably right Sally

  • choicelady : AD – I think Gore is done with politics.

  • ADONAI : I;m with ya chris. Dean was the real deal.

  • Khirad : You know how you have to be a certain age to be President and Senator and such? Seriously, why is that only on one end of the age spectrum. I’m serious. We seem to have more sensible rules on this for cars.

  • SallyT : AD, after secretary of state, I think she would just like to stay home.

  • choicelady : AD – Reagan was a guy. And now we know he was losing it. I think he was 68 when he ran the first time. He just had his 100th birthday, so in 1980 – 31 years ago – he’d have been 68-69.

  • ChrisR266 : Just lobbbin’ it out there, but Howard Dean never got his due, I would have voted for him in an instant.

  • kesmarn : I hope you’re right, Chris. The oil-drilling in state parks, privatization of prisons and leasing the turnpike. Selling Lake Erie water to corps. He’s everywhere! And not in a good way.

  • Chernynkaya : kes, I remember that too. It was fortunate that the country was bot in crisis then.

  • choicelady : ‘Night tex!

  • ADONAI : Albert Gore?

  • ChrisR266 : Hi Patsy. Yeah, about time, eh?

  • choicelady : Cher – I think Obama is amazing, and yes, I will vote with great pleasure in 2012. I really am in awe of things he’s doing that are radically changing the way the US acts. And doing that under massive duress!

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night Tex, enjoy those kiddies!

  • ChrisR266 : Kes, I’m not too worried. The heartbeat bill will be struck down by the courts. If they want to take it to the SCOTUS, well good luck to them. It’ll take two plus years for it to get there.

  • SallyT : AD, no she won’t run.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, didn’t you mention that Brown is seriously losing it, mentally.

  • Khirad : Case in point AD.

  • ADONAI : Reagan was 72 wasn’t he?

  • Chernynkaya : Take care tex!

  • ADONAI : Indeed

  • choicelady : AD – Hillary would be about 70. That’s too old unless you’re pickled like Jerry Brown.

  • PatsyT : Chris, It’s great to see the midwest wake up[!

  • Khirad : Me neither AD, plus, I’m not big on the whole dynasty thing either.

  • kesmarn : Yes, Chris. One victory. And a big one. But he’s done so much other damage that will take years to undo. Sigh.

  • ADONAI : Khirad, I agree but if she wants a “normal life” I can’t blame her

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: I am anticipating November very much. Kasich’s grand plan will go down.

  • Chernynkaya : Sure funk. have at it!

  • Khirad : I sorta wish Chelsea would get into politics, I thought she was a natural stumping.

  • kesmarn : I think even Hillary thinks she’ll be too old then,AD.

  • funksands : Cher, I remember Clinton’s trooper-gate, xmas card gate, whitewater, vince foster, travel gate. He was hounded personally and professionally to the ends of the earth.

  • Chernynkaya : SAbreen, it is NOT about that for me. It’s that I think the backlash against him has been racist and I will vote for him again in a heartbeat. it’s really a pointless question, and one that only underscores how deeply racist this country is. I didn’t expect that.

  • ADONAI : Speaking of Mrs. Clinton, 2016?

  • choicelady : Sabreen – no, I don’t think so. I think his numbers are good, he is standing tough in the door with the GOP, and for whatever reason, have you noticed that after Bin Laden, almost NO one is referring to his race? He showed he had cojones which to a lotta white guys is very important. He’s not a wussy, Black liberal anymore. That matters at some gut level way. It’s changed a lot of people’s ideas.

  • kesmarn : Night, tex!

  • SallyT : I don’t regret voting for Obama but I am sorry that the first Africa American got saddle with this mess, the same as I am glad the first woman didn’t.

  • Khirad : Later tex.

  • ADONAI : Later tex. I enjoyed that movie.

  • Khirad : Nein Funk! Das ist Verboten. Verbotennnn!

  • kesmarn : Chris, we’re limping along under the despotic “leadership” of Kasich, aren’t we?

  • texliberal : Well seems I’ve been told Battlefield Los Angeles has just been ordered on pay-per-view. Have to supervise it’s WATCHING. It’s been my pleasure as usual. See ya’ll next week

  • ADONAI : You can suggest all day

  • PatsyT : Cher, That is a very honest question. I have had some similar thoughts. This country really was not as advanced as I thought.

  • kesmarn : And funk!

  • funksands : Cher hi! Am I allowed to suggest a topic?

  • ADONAI : Same. Work has been busy. Other than that, I’m good.

  • Chernynkaya : Sally–that’s sort of my point. But more that I wonder if all this horror would be unleashed if it had not been Obama.

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, Kes. How’s everything in our state?

  • Khirad : Sally, that reminds me of that Onion cover where they said, the country’s in the crapper, let’s give it to the black guy.

  • choicelady : Sally – no it’s not awful, but she’d have made compromises I could not abide. She is tight with Doug Coe of C Street fame – he’s her personal mentor in spiritual/politi cal things. Therefore, I do not trust her at ALL.

  • funksands : Life is great my man, tiring but very good. You?

  • ADONAI : Why thank you choice

  • kesmarn : Hey Chris!

  • Chernynkaya : HEY! Hi funk and invent!

  • kesmarn : invient, i wasn’t scolding you, only greeting! :lol:

  • ADONAI : Good to be seen my friend. Hope life is treating you well

  • choicelady : Hey funk, hey invient!

  • Chernynkaya : Khurad, after you tell them they immediately send you a note to reconsider–with out reading your reasons.

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, everyone. Long time, no read.

  • choicelady : AD – maybe a new word, but you DO it beautifully!

  • Sabreen60 : Cher, I really hate to hear you say that. Why? Because I often wonder if those white folks who voted for the President regret it. Not because of anything he has done or hasn’t done, but because of the color of his skin. Will they decide it’s just not worth it to vote for him again.

  • funksands : Adonai is good to see you.

  • texliberal : Cher both but in different measures

  • Khirad : Get out right now. That’s sacrilege not to like Scotch. What about Drambuie?

  • invient : woops…. HI!

  • choicelady : Khirad – they always seem to want to know. I gave them an eyeful today! Don’t hold your breath waiting for a reply.

  • SallyT : Cher, this is terrible of me: I told a friend that I was glad we didn’t elect Hillary because the country was in such a mess, I didn’t want the first woman to be saddle with it.

  • ADONAI : hello funk and/or invient!

  • funksands : No one is perfect Tex.

  • kesmarn : invient, did we say “HI” when you arrived. If not, consider yourself greeted.

  • Chernynkaya : Tex–to you or the kids?

  • choicelady : tex – I’d have to know what Jack Black (J. Daniels?) IS before I’d offer an opinion. Brandy though? Time honored folk remedy. For YOU, grandpa. Not them. Although…

  • texliberal : Funk, never could stand Scotch

  • Chernynkaya : AD I just got there–{{applaus e!}}

  • invient : ha

  • Khirad : Assonance? Hey, what’ya trying to say about AD?!

  • ADONAI : assonance. I learned a new word today!

  • Chernynkaya : Sally, I appreciate that thinking.

  • funksands : Tex only if you leave them alone while you administer Johnny Walker Black

  • kesmarn : (I mean on the Taibbi article.)

  • kesmarn : That’s my feeling exactly, Khirad.

  • choicelady : AD – I did indeed see you work (it’s assonance, dear. Alliteration is consonants.) Bloody brilliant!

  • Khirad : Oh, they ask me why I’m unsubscribing? Well, now, if you’re gonna solicit MY opinion… mwahahaha.

  • ADONAI : I don;t think so tex. But I have pretty liberal ideas about parenting

  • Khirad : OOOOOOO!

  • choicelady : AD – yes, you’re absolutely correct. The party IS the members, and that lack of respect is deadly.

  • texliberal : My wife got called into work and left me with FOUR grandchildren ages 9-12. Would the administration of a smigin of Jack Black be unethical?

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy–at it’s essence, that it the situation. So much of it really is racism. And let me say something totally incendiary: I am proud to have voted for Obama. I love him and believe he will go down in history as one of the greatest. But because of the racism and fear of change during a terrible recession–when things become inflamed anyway, I sometimes ask myself if this was the best time to elect such a divisive figure. NOT that he himself is divisive, but because the country was perhaps not ready, and this is a time if crisis. Is this terrible of me? Sincere question.

  • Khirad : Yeah, Taibbi did have that right. It’s entirely understandable. They have an inferiority complex and/or it just puts them on the defensive. It’s not how to win them over.

  • ADONAI : Wait. Can we back up a few posts? did no one catch my alliteration? That was some pretty good “O” work right there.

  • choicelady : Khirad – unsubscribe is the best feeling EVER especially when they ask you WHY. Lovely!

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I TOTALLY agree with you! Clinton caved over and over, but no one bashed him. Your points on the tax cuts and Gitmo are spot on. Obama will NOT yield to what he does not believe. We keep hearing he has or will but he does NOT.

  • PatsyT : Sabeen thats it, if it is constructive criticism, go for it, but they so often cross-over into toxic crap spewing so you really have to wonder about their motives.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, those “pundit/elitist s” you refer to are a real problem. That Bachmann article by Taibbi that BSM linked to said that those types drive some people into the arms of the Bachmann types, because they sense SHE doesn’t laugh at or dismiss them as yokels. Good point by Taibbi, I thought.

  • SallyT : I mean, Cher, I even like to hear all those World Order guys. They are nuts but you have to know where the nuts are coming from inorder to crack them.

  • ADONAI : I get its and it;s wrong all the time. Probably did just now

  • ADONAI : choice, But isn’t the Party it’s members? If you can’t respect the person fighting beside you who are you gonna respect?

  • choicelady : choicelady made a grammar mistake to AD: the word is “its” not “it’s”. Sorry. Mea culpa. One strives to uphold the highest standards on the Planet.

  • Khirad : I can’t, for the life of me, even remember how I even got on Green’s and Hamster’s lists. Hitting delete has been so automatic, I hadn’t even thought of unsubscribing. D’oy. Brilliant!

  • SallyT : no, Cher, I can handle it. It is good to know how others think because it enables you to be able to react.

  • choicelady : Sally – I sure hope you’re right that when things work out, they will simply take credit and vote in 2012.

  • ADONAI : “Outraged Obama Oscillates Openly Over Open Obfuscation”

  • Sabreen60 : I don’t have a problem with criticism of President Obama IF it’s constructive criticism and if it’s fair. We often hear from the left that “Obama” gave tax cuts to the rich. Yeah. But why, how much and what did he/we get in return. Same thing with Gitmo. Yeah, but why isn’t it closed? The real problem I DO have is from those on the left who want to tell Pres. Obama what to do, when to do it and how to do it. They tell him to jump and he is suppose to say how high. I don’t remember them doing this to Clinton.

  • PatsyT : Cher, am I crazy or have I seen this picture before? The Black Man gets a nice shop for himself and then the town seems to come up with all kinds of new regulations and hurdles that never existed before. Then there are incidents like broken windows and rude grafitti and of course the burning cross… They do want that Black man to succeed, ever.

  • Chernynkaya : Khriad, I unsubscribed after that one. As I think about my question, I realize it is stupid. Becasue the people here are not the ones effected. Oh well… how about those Mets?

  • choicelady : AD – the problem with the idea that the party did itself in is that you cannot mobilize people who are single issue fanatics, who don’t read, don’t understand the system (going back to the belief one house makes laws), and who WANT to be righteously indignant. The party is NOT doctrinaire, but it’s members too often are. That is a very great source of trouble – the lack of respect one group has for another.

  • SallyT : Don’t be so sure that the progressives howler right now won’t be there to vote with us. They will. They are just upset but when they see it won’t be as bad as they are whinning about, they will come back in and think it wasn’t so bad because of their howler they got the Prez to do it right.

  • Khirad : Don’t forget bold progressives. “Outrage! Obama!” The only thing missing from that subject line was a grunt.

  • texliberal : CL, makes sense

  • Chernynkaya : Sally, that is good to know. But do you get demoralized ?

  • ADONAI : Part 2- No! That’s patronizing. We’re not children. That makes them no better than FOX News. If you give people the truth I think you’ll be quite pleased with what they do with it

  • texliberal : Cher, got ya

  • kesmarn : I don’t think negative commentary about Obama would necessarily hurt voter turnout. We don’t buy into much of it, and “they” never seem to stay home, unfortunately. The stay-at-homes will do that regardless. They stayed home in 2010 even after HCR was passed…a real achievement.

  • choicelady : tex – saying the left in the 60s and 70s weren’t professional is very true. I was tangentially one of them – did the office management during the student strike after Kent State – but today’s “professional left” are mostly the bloggers and pundits who pontificate without substance. Those of us still working on issues in the streets are beneath their notice. They have ALL the answers – the folks on TV, who write long, pithy columns, who blog. Those people.

  • Chernynkaya : tex, I am thinking of pudnuts (H/T bito) like glenn greenwald, or even Ed Schultz, or MoveOn, or Hamshire–blogge rs and jouranlists.

  • ADONAI : Part 1 – i think the Democratic Party themselves hurt voter turnout. It’s great to be such a diverse open Party but you need a coalition. That lack of focus is why a group with a smaller voting block can beat you so soundly. Is the republican message wrong? Probably. Bit they are relentless in their pursuit of it.

  • SallyT : Look, I like to here the negative because I like to be prepared to counter when someone talks to me about it.

  • Chernynkaya : I have another selfish reason for asking. I think about that when I select articles for the Daily Planet. but I seriously wonder.

  • choicelady : AD – if you’re an independent, then your voice matters a lot. If you’re a Republican – what are you doing hanging out with us? If you’re a Socialist, good luck to ya.

  • texliberal : Hear a lot about the professional left. Explain please. I remember the anti-war college types in the 60’s and 70’s but I found them not to be very professional

  • invient : I think all news is going to be skewed towards good news. They are trying to raise confidence and or support in both the consumer and business communities.

  • ADONAI : can do!

  • Chernynkaya : oh! OOPS sorry! Play along anyway?

  • choicelady : Cher – I want balance. I think there is SO LITTLE decent analysis of the good things Obama has done that I no longer look for GOOD news, just BALANCE. Honest reporting seems a thing of the past.

  • ADONAI : I;m not a Democrat!

  • kesmarn : I agree, Sally. She can be “managed,”

  • Chernynkaya : Why, AD? Tell me. I really want to know.

  • ADONAI : This is a terrible topic!

  • SallyT : I think the money behind Bachmann think they can control her better than Palin.

  • choicelady : Patsy – I think NY 26 was not a one-shot deal. The entire GOP is killing itself off with their drumbeat of tax breaks for the billionairs and “the poor need to sacrifice more” kinds of stupid statements. When you start cutting essential programs we ALL use, that spells doom. Even Western NY Rotarians got pissed and voted Dem.

  • ADONAI : Glad you bring that up Sally. i think the Tea Party is hurting the Republican Party. They’re not a true third party. Just an extension of the far right Republican wing. If tea Party candidates pop up, I wonder how many will win. I;m guessing fewer than last time.

  • Chernynkaya : Well, that was a perfect segue to my second topic:TOPIC #2: THE OTHER DAY I HAD A TWITTER CONVERSATION WITH A PROGRESSIVE BLOGGER—DIGBY. I ADMIRE HER, BUT SHE WROTE A PRETTY SCATHING CRITICISM OF OBAMA AND THE DEMS, AND AT THE END SHE WROTE THAT SHE HOPES HIS ACTIONS WON’T EFFECT HIS RE-ELECTION. HERE’S MY QUESTION: PART1—DO YOU THINK IT HURTS VOTER TRUNOUT WHEN ONE HEARS BAD NEWS OR CRITICISM OF THE DEMS? AND PART 2—DO YOU WANT TO READ ONLY GOOD NEWS MAINLY ABOUT WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS DOING?

  • kesmarn : I didn’t suspect either of them of being capable of reproduction, tex.

  • PatsyT : HA HA Tex … ! That would explain a few things

  • Chernynkaya : CL,ere is a big backlash against them from real Dems–not the professional left. You should see Twitter. There are still many who are unimformed–the hair-on-firess, but the professional left is losing steam, IMO.

  • texliberal : Cher, heard a rumor Palin was the love child of P Buchanan and P Schaffly

  • SallyT : AD, like I said my repub friends said they might vote dems locally because they don’t like the TParty. Some even said in Congressial races.

  • choicelady : kes – yes, I think Bachmann has absolutely overshadowed Palin.

  • kesmarn : You do, indeed, AD! :-D

  • kesmarn : c’lady don’t you think they’ll throw T-Bag/Repub support behind Bachmann who’s just as crazy but has a better work ethic.

  • ADONAI : Indeed kes. Indeed. But that’s why I love’em!

  • choicelady : Cher – one big question – how in the world do we get the bloggers to stop telling lies on OUR side of the equation? I had to unsubscribe from MoveOn and several other sites because of the lies. Just makes me sick!

  • Chernynkaya : CL–I disagree abiut Palin. She will remain a star in tv only–or like Schaffley.

  • ADONAI : I understand that totally Cher. earlier this year I figured Repubs would keep the House. But Paul Ryan and Scott Walker have sunk them. I still think people are underestimating the significance of that district in New York going Democratic. That NEVER should have happened. The Democrats could have ran ronald reagan before this year and not wont hat seat.

  • kesmarn : Patsy, I think when she got bored with the bus tour and quit, and the Rep/T-bag machine realized that they’d get more bang for the buck with Bachmann, she was history.

  • choicelady : Patsy and kes – I think she is plotting something. I also know she’s been thrown under the bus by Kristol who anointed her in the first place. But I think she will be coming back big time.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–well, that’s a plus. But all the others, not so much unless their families tell them.

  • SallyT : Pats, I think she had marriage problems.

  • choicelady : Cher – I really do think as with health reform that once the deal is done, there WILL be a lot of public statements from the WH. He has always kept pretty mum while dealing. That however, did not help the whiny progressives not asserting that he ‘caved’ on tax breaks and refusing to admit he cut a GREAT deal good for the rest of us! Even today I heard someone say that and had to go through it all again.

  • kesmarn : Like herding cats, as they say, AD.

  • Chernynkaya : Adonai, it seems impossible for them to be re-elcted. But after 2010 I am so spooked by voters I can’t stand it. Now, you and I will disagree, but honestly don’t want to live in a country with them in charge.

  • PatsyT : Ahh on that Palin thought … anyone notice … she has been a little quiet lately , Whats up with that?

  • ADONAI : kes,I gave up long ago trying to reel women in. If you wanna talk about something, you’re GONNA talk about it! :)

  • kesmarn : Patsy, she probably takes a good swig of Russian vodka and then ignites it as she blows it out to singe those feathers off. Jes’ like a real man!

  • choicelady : Cher – those on Medicare will see very quickly that nothing has changed.

  • ADONAI : Roosters AND chickens tex

  • PatsyT : She singes the feathers off with a flame thrower

  • Chernynkaya : Kes–CHIPPER! SPOT ON.

  • kesmarn : AD is trying valiantly to stay on topic while all the ladies have laughs at Palin’s expense.

  • texliberal : :)

  • SallyT : No Tex, the the bottle kind and I got tough as nails!

  • choicelady : Patsy – if Levi is to be believed, Palin never went hunting before she ran for Veep. A friend noted that NO one in Alaska goes hunting from helicopters – the COST would be outrageous!

  • Chernynkaya : yes, back to the topic. Here’s another of my endless worries: Obama won’t make any cuts to SS and Medi that impact any beneficiaries. BUT the impression will be that he HAS. And given that nobody reads, or thinks, it will become a net negative.

  • kesmarn : And chow down without bothering to de-feather or cook, Patsy.

  • ADONAI : I just can’t believe they’re still arguing over entitlements to billion dollar companies. It seems pretty damn obvious. Another reason I don’t think the republicans are keeping the House very long.

  • SallyT : Clady, I don’t want to insult the turkey. Its more the droppings shooting the deer.

  • texliberal : Sally, you ever had wild turkey and no not the bourbon. Tough as nails

  • PatsyT : I think Palin is the type to just break their necks with her bare hands

  • choicelady : When Palin goes hunting, it’s more the turkey shooting the deer.

  • kesmarn : She herself looked so — well — chipper!

  • ADONAI : I remember that video kes. I couldn’t stop laughing. “No one wants to see how the sausage is made”.

  • SallyT : Gee, I thought Palin shot her turkey………. …

  • PatsyT : HA Kes !!! Yes that little vid was a popular story on HP….

  • Chernynkaya : Kes, that was like from The nOnion. You truly can;t write stuff like that.

  • texliberal : AD only the roosters??? :)

  • choicelady : AD – back to the topic indeed. NO Obama will not cut SERVICES to Medicare, only wasteful privatized programs that do nobody any good.

  • kesmarn : Cher! Hahahahaha!

  • kesmarn : There’s a vid of Sarah Palin pardoning a T-giving turkey in Alaska and right behind her is some guy doing something very unpleasant regarding a wood-chipper. Totally surreal.

  • Chernynkaya : Der hun nor hobn a BLOWOUT!

  • ADONAI : I never knew chickens were so hardcore. My respect for their species has increased tenfold.

  • choicelady : Cher – that must have been hilarious! In fact even free range chickens will kill and eat each other if there are too many of them. SB 2 regulated humane treatment of ALL farm animals but did NOT outlaw factory farming per se.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA H!

  • ADONAI : And so, as I was saying, I don’t think Obama will cut Medicare

  • SallyT : That should have been NOT crowded in pens. Drink!

  • PatsyT : I need an Audio of that Cher!

  • ADONAI : HA!

  • kesmarn : Oy! de chicken just hed a blowout!

  • SallyT : And, they were crowded because they were in pens.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–My ex grew up on a chicken farm, and yes, they will eat themselves. In the biz, they call it a “Blowout.” You haven’t laughed until you hear a tiny old Jewish guy like my father in law declare that the chicken just had a blowout–in Yiddish!

  • ADONAI : I live next to a cow farm. Natural farm. Open grazing. The cows look delicious.

  • kesmarn : PACK THE COURT< tex!

  • PatsyT : Well Cher that can be true … they make more sense then the GOP

  • SallyT : My father had a commerical feedlot in the 60s and I can guarantee you could eat the beef.

  • texliberal : Kes, we need Obama to do an FDR. When we get the House back in 2012 petition Congress for an additional two Justices, both liberal

  • ADONAI : Yes. yes you did. It is on record and you can never take it back :)

  • Chernynkaya : Did I just say that buying chicken eyeballs made sense?

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, that makes more sense, AD.

  • SallyT : Clady, they can change the laws but if there is no agency to regulate, it won’t be inforced.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes– they sicken me.

  • kesmarn : “It is imperative for Americans to have confidence in the impartiality of the Supreme Court,”

  • Chernynkaya : Gues y’all have seen The Meatrix by now: «link»

  • kesmarn : Cher, I skimmed the Kagan article. Rueful laugh of the evening:

  • ADONAI : Me neither Sally. I don;t like the way we do food here. It;s like no one cares at all where their meal came from. No respect for the process.

  • Chernynkaya : Hi SAbreen! And I was remiss in not welcoming bito, tex, Khirad, and anyone else. SORRY! (BAd moderator–BAD.)

  • SallyT : I saw a lot of good people lose their family farms that had been in family for generations under Reagass.

  • choicelady : SAlly – chicken laws are changing everywhere. We passed humane treatment laws in 2008 that will revolutionize the ways chickens are handled, and it won’t add to the cost of eggs or meat. It’s done everywhere in Europe and other states are doing it voluntarily. And chickens NEED to be caged in large numbers – they are cannibals! So in large coops there need to be large and adequate cages to keep them safe and prevent needing to de-beak them.

  • kesmarn : Patsy, you are on a roll tonight! Too funny!

  • PatsyT : Or that one

  • ADONAI : Hello Sabreen! Doing well thank you. Hope you are too.

  • SallyT : Can you guys tell I don’t like corporate farms?

  • PatsyT : You know this could be good for the reality show market…. Will he eat this one of that one … Which one has the Hepatitis A? Find out after the break…

  • kesmarn : Hey, join us, Sabreen!

  • SallyT : That film shows how pigs are treated.

  • ADONAI : It is pretty shitty what they do to chickens. Especially KFC.

  • Sabreen60 : Hi Everyone, Sat down at the computer and realized I never logged off of POV. Hope everyone is having a good night.

  • SallyT : That is chickens raised by big corporate chicken farms.

  • ADONAI : Cher, I guess I should have used a different word. They buy more and bring in more than anyone. From all over North America

  • SallyT : No Cher but chicken are miss treated here. Terrible

  • choicelady : Uhhhh Cher? What do we import chicken eyeballs FOR and why would I want domestic ones. The chickens, sure, but ME?

  • Khirad : Our best hope now is for wages to rise, even if incrementally in developing nations. Hopefully an equilibrium will be found sooner or later. As AD says, we’re in a painful transition period now between tech and globalization. Of course, how each government, including less democratic ones deal with that themselves, can add a wrinkle or two to that diagnosis.

  • PatsyT : This will give an all new meaning to the the T V Show Title Man vs Food

  • kesmarn : :lol:

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy! HAH!

  • Chernynkaya : Why do they need to IMPORT chicken eyeballs? Are US Chickens blind?

  • kesmarn : c’lady, give me some ‘ that old time socialism when it comes to food safety, too.

  • ADONAI : How do we know what corporations will and won’t take? We barely enforce any of the laws we have on the books right now.

  • SallyT : Kes I will give you a link on the other side to it.

  • choicelady : Patsy – have you not noticed how many Baggers resemble e.coli viruses? It’s a natural fit.

  • texliberal : CL, insist on Kosher

  • kesmarn : I’ll have to check that out, Sally!

  • choicelady : SAlly – that historically is true – big corporations will “cooperate:”in setting standards only they can meet to drive out competition.

  • ADONAI : Indeed. And I always liked Taco Bell.

  • choicelady : kes – I’m all for socialist food inspectors.

  • choicelady : Yes – bito and Khirad raise one of the “fear factor” points – when the HOUSE passes a bill such as the death of Medicare, the entire blog-o-sphere goes bonkers saying it’s a LAW. Here we are again – NO understanding of how Congress works. NOT a law until both houses pass it and Obama signs it. The House can do all it flipping wants, and it means NOTHING if the Senate doesn’t act or turns it down.

  • SallyT : Kes, you got to see that film.

  • Chernynkaya : AD–well, we jhust learned that the stuff at Taco Bell is not beef.

  • PatsyT : T Party to Congress: We want our E coli Back !

  • texliberal : Khirad, H1B’s have driven programming job wages down 25% here in Dallas.

  • SallyT : Corps don’t like regulations unless it is to their benefit.

  • Chernynkaya : kes and anyone: «link»

  • Khirad : Yes, we still have the Senate… for now.

  • SallyT : The corporate farms want regulations that put the small farms out of busy.

  • kesmarn : Food inspections are socialism.

  • ADONAI : I do know that McDonald’s is the number one importer of chicken eyeballs. I wish I were making that up.

  • BlueStateMan : The Senate won’t go along.

  • bito : The House has voted to cut food inspections, so who knows what what McDonalds will be able to serve.

  • Chernynkaya : kes, must confess I jsut saw the headline. let me check.

  • SallyT : There is a doco movie Farmageddon you all need to watch.

  • kesmarn : Fear not, c’lady. It won’t be long before the next one.

  • ADONAI : choice, Our “basics” used to be agriculture. The Revolution changed that. It’s changing again.

  • choicelady : Aw bito – I was SO hoping for another GOP scandal.

  • PatsyT : LOL Kes !

  • ADONAI : HA! Hello Khirad

  • Chernynkaya : CL–Thanks for the reminder about the states!

  • choicelady : Adonai – we certaily DO need manufacturing jobs. When your economy contracts, it is the basics that endure and ONLY the basics. The Industrial Revolution did NOT leave people unemployed – there were almost no wage workers before that. It massively ensnared previously autonomous producers and took away their control over production, but that’s why unions and worker ownership/manage ment is so important. But manufacturing is critical as is agriculture and basic services such as health. It’s the frills – fancy finance, high end services, paper trading – that are totally dispensible.

  • kesmarn : Taco Bell first, AD.

  • Khirad : AD, we’ll have to dub this into español «link»

  • Chernynkaya : Bito–missed T-Paw but saw the rest. The pledge of Bachmann’s is her death knell.

  • ADONAI : I know it sounds cliche by now but I wanna investigate McDonald’s. there’s no way that is real beef.

  • kesmarn : Patsy, I think that would be the film CONception, for those pills.

  • bito : My point, CL, was what was covered. Not the CPC!

  • SallyT : No, Cher, hadn’t heard that. But, Thomas needs to be!

  • kesmarn : On what grounds do they want to investigate Kagan, Cher?

  • ADONAI : tex, That will change too. As soon as we open the border and regulate free trade. Then we’ll be going to Mexico and “taking their jobs!”

  • PatsyT : Yes Kes, I would definitely wonder what is in that drug or is this the film Inception?

  • Chernynkaya : Speaking of this disgusting Court, did you hear that instead of investigating Thomas, the Reeps want to investigate KAGEN??? She, who has recused herself in half the cases!

  • choicelady : bito – why has T-Paw anything to say about Lady Gaga? What on earth is she to him? Unless – oh no – is he going to confess having a relationship with her??????? Could we spread the story??????

  • texliberal : AD, there are Tech jobs available, but here in Dallas we are awash in H1B visas filling those jobs

  • ADONAI : thanks Cher :) . I’d love to bring manufacturing jobs back but we don’t “need” them. And I think unions will still be here a decade from now, a century from now. The Industrial Revolution was a great thing but it left many unemployed. Changed A LOT of economies. Created similar problems as workforces adapted to the changes. Same here in the dawn of a “global village”. We’ll right ourselves soon enough. I am confident of that. Again, we just have to want it.

  • Chernynkaya : BSM, there is a icon at the top of the box to turn off. or, turn off computer’s sound.

  • kesmarn : Yes, Patsy, and if the scenery around me kept morphing into astroturf and waterfalls, I’d be weepy and worried, too.

  • choicelady : Cher – so much in health care is up to the states, that a lot is bypassing the GOP. CA just passed the first hurdle in AB 52 to give the state insurance commissioner the right to totally impartial review of health insurance RATE increases – and to REFUSE them if they are found to be too large. That is HUGE!

  • Chernynkaya : Great vid, bito.

  • SallyT : AD, the infrostruct jobs would be union, too.

  • bito : Did anyone see the presser of the house Progressive Caucus today, or did you see T-Paw on Lady Gaga or Bacchmann on slavery?

  • PatsyT : Kes, If I had to go sit in a empty tub in the middle of nowhere I would cry too!

  • kesmarn : Hey, Khirad!

  • SallyT : Thanks Patsy!

  • choicelady : Hi Patsy!

  • Chernynkaya : AD–I like the way you’re thinking!

  • PatsyT : LOL Sally

  • Khirad : Top left. Click on it.

  • Chernynkaya : I think we are all in agreement as to what needs to be done in health care–with minor variations. But there is NO WAY thst will happen with these reeps. No way. Unless we win consecutive elections, status quo.

  • kesmarn : Yes, Patsy, they always cast the actors who look like they’re about to burst into tears for those ads.

  • SallyT : I know BSM, I keep thinking my husband is poppiing another one and not sharing.

  • choicelady : BSM – that noise occurs on my home computer but not on my work one. Cannot explain it.

  • PatsyT : Kes, Hmmm you know he does look like one of those guys on the boner pill ads.

  • kesmarn : Mute button?

  • BlueStateMan : Is there ANY way to turn that obnoxious “cork-pop” effect OFF? When watching videos (even on other sites) it sounds off.. and it’s driving me CRAZY (a short excursion if ever there was one!).

  • choicelady : Cher – I think that SCOTUS is so over the top and the other factors are so “in our face” that they will keep themselves in the news into 2012.

  • Chernynkaya : tex–I’m raising my hand. I think many jobs are permanently lost. Sure, there will be others created, but without unions most will be minimum wage. Or highly technicasl which require good ed in math and science.

  • kesmarn : We could just watch THE Boehner himself, Patsy, and save all that money!

  • choicelady : Good link, bito. Thanks!

  • PatsyT : Kes, but if they didn’t spend all those big $$$ on Advert, What would we do without the boner pill ad entertainment ??

  • kesmarn : Good link, b’ito!

  • ADONAI : tex, Millions of green tech jobs, millions o flow and hi tech jobs, new infrastructure work. health care and education reform would create hundreds of thousands of jobs. They’re there. We just gotta want it.

  • bito : 4 Reasons why I will Vote in the 2012 Presidential Election «link»

  • kesmarn : Disappointing, c’lady. This SCOTUS is a real problem, obviously, and the RW fundies only add to that.

  • choicelady : Cher – we could cut 35% immediately from the cost of health care by going to single payer. That would take profits, advertising, executive compensation and MASSIVE paperwork overload right out of the equation.

  • Chernynkaya : CL- I wish we could all keep things like SCOTUS, and super PACs and Fox and the asrtoturf special interests in the front of our minds all the time when we lament what hasn’t been accomplished!

  • ADONAI : Cher, you lower the costs by getting rid of the people who artificially inflate them. Insurance, Pharma, med suppliers. Then watch costs drop.

  • choicelady : kes and Cher – anyway, what I see is that public employees can be held accountable to taxpayers but PRIVATE recipients of largesse probably cannot be. It’s the embedded inequality of our Constitution in the hands of Dominionist Christians that will prove to be the MOST troubling. Different standards for rich and poor, human and corporate, business and everyone else.

  • ADONAI : Indeed kes. but knock out ALL those middlemen. Just give care straight to the people.

  • SallyT : Most say the TParty wasn’t suppose to be the one that there is today. They are not happy with that. They are telling me that they don’t like Obama but they might go for Dems in Local races and Congress because of the TParty guys are the worst!

  • texliberal : AD, such as?

  • Chernynkaya : AD the cost of health care is the charges of Dr.s and hospitals and MRIs and pharma. As long as we have a capitalist system, I don;t know how you lower those costs, but they must get lower.

  • ADONAI : tex, i don’t. Plenty of new jobs out there waiting.

  • kesmarn : AD, when you consider the amount that big pharma, hospitals, insurance, nursing homes and the Kochs spend just on ADVERTIZING. Think of the health care that would pay for!

  • texliberal : Who else believes without a vibrant manufacturing base we’re doomed to a 8-10% unemployment rate indefinitely?

  • choicelady : kes and Cher – there just is not a lot of public and open info right now. Linking compensation to the acceptance of public money would be challenged in SCOTUS and since they just overturned publicly funded elections in AZ saying that (this is amazing) giving one publicly funded candidate more public money to even up the amount being spent privately by the other candidate – was “chilling to free speech”. HUH???

  • PatsyT : Sally I hope that spreads fast!

  • SallyT : I’m with you Cher. He needs to say this is where we started and we are here. Now if we hadn’t done this or that we would be here and that would be worst.

  • Chernynkaya : Sally, that’s fabulous to hear!

  • choicelady : Sally – that may be the best news yet! Keep them talking – we all should hear what they have to say. I think the Tea Party may be the WORST thing ever happened to the GOP!

  • ADONAI : choice, I get that it’s paid for somewhere but that should be tax dollars. Think abut it. It costs more to run and regulate the current health care system than it does to provide free health care. THEN add in the cost of applying that health care and it’s astronomical. It can be paid for very easily.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–It was barely a whisper. He needs to step it up. They will say he is shifting the blame–they say whatever all the time. If he thinks it’s the truth, he needs to articulate it plainly. What he HAS said is that the Dems jobs plans were all voted down. He could even repeat that. Fact is, the stim to the states was too small, even tho he probably couldn’t have gotten much larger one.

  • kesmarn : c’lady — sorry I stepped away for a sec — so glad to hear that those comp caps are being considered. I wrote my Rep about this!

  • choicelady : tex – well, I admit. That’s not good! Hope she got better?

  • SallyT : I got to tell you, I have several Repub friends (not at holidays but) and they are not happy with their party not doing anything but being stubborn.

  • texliberal : CL, my recruit was real good at hitting the TOP of the berm. Good thing the airport was in the OTHER direction.

  • choicelady : Cher – I thought he’d started talking about the loss of jobs and how the GOP is negatively impacting things. It was brief, to be sure.

  • choicelady : AD – that’s what the health reform is building up to. Let me say though – it is not free. Anywhere. You have taxes or premiums to pay for it no matter how it exists. It’s free to anyone using it, but everyone puts something into the pot. It’s the “stone soup” principle which is GREAT if you can get away from the US obsession with self interest.

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy, I think they are a reflection. And when those jobs are lost, of course, that is fewer dollars being spent in the community–downw ard spiral. I really long for Obama to mention the effect that’s having and who is doing the cutting.

  • choicelady : kes – there is a lot of discussion about whether the infusion of public money into nursing homes, pharma, etc. could lead to such executive comp caps. So far everyone’s afraid to make the private sector accountable. Unless they’re union people, of course…

  • ADONAI : I’d love to see free health care for everyone. We can afford it pretty easily.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes, I never thought about those–musta missed those rants. But that is an outstanding point!

  • PatsyT : Yes Cher, aren’t these new jobs numbers a reflection of public sector jobs getting the axe … teachers, firefighters ..

  • texliberal : Maybe Obama is triangulating. But I do hate that word. He’s done many good things in his first term hope he throws that strategy out the door in his second

  • choicelady : tex, darlin’ – FBI trained me on an MP-5. I’m only 5’tall, and it was almost as big as I am. It may have looked stupid, but I’m GOOD. Don’t laugh at us. YOur recruit may now be deadeye Jane.

  • kesmarn : My broken record rant is — once more — that I would love to see caps on exec compensation at pharma, insurance and for-profit hospitals and nursing homes that get Fed $$$.

  • Chernynkaya : Frankly, I am more upset about the very real cuts in spending during this recession. Those ARE real.

  • SallyT : I think there may have been a balloon put out there to get some attention. Just to get a feel for the wind.

  • choicelady : Cher – yes, the stories were without any sources. We will probably never know who started the “true” rumor, but it has given the party leaders real spines. I am quite sure these issues were NEVER on the table, but now he can offer up the privatized fluff for sacrifice, and in saving billions, the RW will be stymied. Now – let’s see what THEY bring?

  • kesmarn : tex, I really know so little about guns, I would probably have been in the same boat…! :-D

  • ADONAI : I will keep that in mind bito. I don;t really care what people think of me personally but I do value the integrity of the site.

  • PatsyT : Hey Bito!

  • Chernynkaya : Bito–what was said? Was I typing and missed something? Now I’d better read.

  • SallyT : Kes, I know, I wish he would get something out to shut the others up.

  • texliberal : Kes, one of my female recruits tried to qualify with a .44 MAGNUM. Funniest thing I ever saw.

  • kesmarn : Hey, b’ito! Thanks for the reminder. Especially since Google is crawling the site!

  • Chernynkaya : CL, I don;t know the origins of those stories at the NYTs and WaPo, but they had no sources nor specifics. It couks have easily been a plant by a mischeif maker for all I know. And th WH pushed back. Maybe it served to allow the Dems to solidify their positions and go on TV and insist there be no cuts?

  • texliberal : There’s another difference CL. Men only drink red wine, preferably very very dry

  • bito : Please remember, we have readers from around the world and thousands of guests. What you say not only reflects on you, but the site.

  • choicelady : Patsy – the plan to move everyone on Part D of Medicare to a VA style plan is already in the works. The amount that would save is staggering. Now – let’s see of the GOP/Baggers even NOTICE that it’s cutting out Pharma. It would save billions.

  • ADONAI : But I think choice really nails it. There are things that can and should be changed in many government program and I think that is what the President is after.

  • kesmarn : I wish our dear Prez would offer a bit of reassurance, but I suppose that’s hard to do when you’re right in the middle of negotiations.

  • SallyT : Tex, I’m back in the saddle again. Riding the range once more. toton my old 44

  • choicelady : Sally – I type so fast because I gave up the THIRD glass of chardonnay.

  • choicelady : Cher – I understand that the story of cuts by Obama began with somebody’s tweet and grew to a feeding frenzy on the Left. Not one shred of evidence shows any of that to be true. I said the breast beating and demands for money from the Left make me long for Oral Roberts. Oral was good for a laugh anyway. These folks just piss me off.

  • Chernynkaya : tex– love Spanky! Call me Darla.

  • kesmarn : There had better be some MASSIVE tax increases for the rich, I must say.

  • PatsyT : OK on the so called cuts I am hearing about are that they would make Medicare drug prescriptions more like the deal that the V A gets… so that would leave some of Big Pharma in a pickle with out that cash cow.

  • ADONAI : Most likely Cher. 3 months ago I would have been saying Republicans want Medicare. But after the way they so foolishly launched their attempt, i figure it’s all talk now. And fewer and fewer people seem to be listening.

  • SallyT : Shit, Clady, how do you type so fast!!!

  • choicelady : tex – hardy har on your link!

  • Chernynkaya : AD, I can;t beleive–after all the ruckus from the Ryam budget plan, and all the polls, that Obama wants to commit electoral suicide. It has to be some ploy, the end of which, the Reeps will look stuoid.

  • texliberal : «link»

  • kesmarn : Oh yeah, tex does have his 357 Magnum with him tonight, and he has experience as a bouncer. You’re good.

  • SallyT : The Prez is no fool.

  • choicelady : Cher – on topic. My understanding is yes, he will make changes AND if people pay attention, they won’t notice much difference. The elements I can discern (and that admittedly is not a lot yet) are all removing the incredibly over priced and wasteful PRIVATE sector payoffs from the health programs. He is also putting future COLAs on the table. Since there have been NONE over the last three years, he’s offering to make it smaller. All in all, these are wise decisions. The remark made to me today by a Board member was that Obama was too inexperienced and naive to make a deal. He still thinks the tax issues last year were a “cave” no matter WHAT I tell him about how they were NOT but were a great bargaining chip. I sent him your Daily Kos link. Maybe he’ll read it. Maybe he won’t. But he’s one of those progressives who thinks magical thinking will work.

  • Chernynkaya : I htink I have backup already. But thanks!

  • PatsyT : I been away and missed you guys! If I am behind on things…. forgive me now

  • SallyT : Ad, no I won’t defend tuna in relationship to women.

  • ADONAI : President Obama won’t mess with Medicare or Social Security. None of them will. It’s mostly talk.

  • kesmarn : Are they getting rowdy already, Cher? Should we call for backup?

  • SallyT : AD, I defend you if you use tuna!

  • Chernynkaya : kes and Patsy–I’m moderating so I need help.

  • ADONAI : choice, Yeah I caught that. I left a reply. I don’t think you;ll be excited about it :(

  • kesmarn : Awww…Hey, Cher!

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy and kes! YAY!

  • SallyT : No and if the first is no the second will be no.

  • ADONAI : I didn’t watch Lucy as a kid. I watched Get Smart. Every night on Nick at Nite. Loved that show. Lucy came on right before but I never got into it.

  • kesmarn : And another Good Evening, Friends…

  • PatsyT : Good Evening Friends…

  • Chernynkaya : TOPIC # 1: SO, DO WE THINK THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA WILL MAKE CHANGES—NOT NECESSARILY CUTS—TO SS AND MEDICARE? IF SO, WILL THERE BE ELECTORAL REPERCUSSIONS?

  • choicelady : tex – not with AD, AdLib, and you here. Unless you’d LIKE it to be?

  • ADONAI : Well, I was gonna say “tuna fest” I know my sense of humor isn’t for everyone. Mostly ex-cons, teamsters, and high school aged boys.

  • Chernynkaya : tex–hell no! WSe’ve been drinking!~

  • choicelady : Sally – I already tore strips off Adonai for his remark about health care. He’s safe. I disembowl only once per day.

  • SallyT : Irish coffee

  • Chernynkaya : I loved how she redecorated every year.

  • texliberal : This the coffee klatch?

  • choicelady : Sally – Lucy was OK, but Roz defined the character so anyone would have come in a very distant second. LOVE that movie with her!

  • SallyT : You can say it Adonai. I’ll hold Clady off ya!

  • Chernynkaya : AD–you are amongst the most hardened women around tonight.

  • choicelady : AD – AdLib is here. You’re safe. And bad jokes in poor taste are probably NOT a good idea? Wise man.

  • Chernynkaya : Thanks for the recommendations, CL. I love mysteries.

  • Chernynkaya : I( mean, Lucy was kinda tough in many interviews. Kinda mean.

  • SallyT : You got a lot of esplanin’ to do, Lucy. Did you get the accent.

  • ADONAI : Man it’s a real…… well you call it a “sausage fest” when it’s mostly guys so i guess this is….ummm…i am really fighting the urge to make a joke of questionable taste here. I am moving on.

  • choicelady : Cher – my most fave is Louise Penney who writes about a small town south of Montreal and an inspector who is one of the most amazing characters ever drawn in words. If you ever read them, read them in order of writing – they build upon one another. Then a slew of others, depending on mood. Right now I’m reading Kate Atkinson whose books are sad but wonderfully uplifting at the same time. I seem to gravitate to women as authors though I adored Robert Parker, too. Sorry he’s dead.

  • Chernynkaya : When you get right down to it, Lucy was really a tough broad. She had an edge. But I loved her as Lucy Ricardo.

  • SallyT : I mean I like Lucy but not in a roll I already had a favorite.

  • Chernynkaya : AD–I’ll wait.

  • SallyT : No CLady. I didn’t care for Lucy as her.

  • Chernynkaya : I think Lucille Ball was a close second–but definitely second.

  • Chernynkaya : Glad to hear it, CL. Who’se your favorite mystery writer?

  • choicelady : Hi AD – welcome!

  • SallyT : Auntie Mame is in my top 6 all time movies.

  • choicelady : Cher and Sally – could ANYONE do Aunti Mame other than Roz?

  • ADONAI : Hello. I’ll be right back.

  • Chernynkaya : SAlly–she did! I adore her and that movie. Another memory of my mom and movies. (we were talking about Gaslight the other nite.)

  • choicelady : Cher – no political books. Mysteries and things that envliven. No self help books, no deep meanings of life books, nothing that doesn’t make me laugh or at least smile.

  • choicelady : Cher – oh wow – I DO remember that scene in “Auntie Mame”! Nailed it – eeeuuuuuwwww.

  • SallyT : She said, “Does it have peanut butter in it?”

  • Chernynkaya : Cl–that sounds heavenly. but please don’t read political books.

  • choicelady : Sally – spent a long night talking with my BFF over Amaretto. We’ve neither of us drunk it since. WHOLE bottle between us over a 10-hour period. It did NOT deflect the major hangover.

  • Chernynkaya : SAlly and Cl–remember Auntie Mame with Roz Russell? One of my favorites! Anyway, I can see her face when her future in-laws served her a daqueri made with hiney.

  • choicelady : Cher – both. Two weeks to the San Juan Islands, two week of nothing at home. OK – I will do some house cleaning, but having the time for it makes me glad. Other than that – reading, reading, reading interspersed with sleeping, sleeping, sleeping. Aaahhhhhhhh.

  • SallyT : A little amaretto, girls, and you will see the party Sally.

  • Chernynkaya : 4 WEEKS! Yippee! Are you going anywhere or just chilling?

  • choicelady : Cher – yes, that’s the word: cloying. Ick.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–I really don’t care for rum either. It gets cloying.

  • choicelady : Cher – two glasses of Chardonnay. I’m feeling fine. It’s the start of a very long holiday for me – four weeks off – so yeah, I’m GREAT.

  • Chernynkaya : Sally–that looks right. I was spelling it with a “c”.

  • choicelady : Cher – I think it’s “soused”. But I’m not sure.

  • Chernynkaya : Hey CL! Happy friday! I’m feeling no pain–you?

  • choicelady : Hi everyone. Just want to confess – I never had a mojito. Not a rum person. Other than that, I’m rarin’ to go. Hope everyone is well?

  • Chernynkaya : Same here–but no drug, just easily sowced. How do you spell sowced?

  • SallyT : Hungover? I got another pill for that!

  • SallyT : And, I’m now a cheap date, too. The drugs I take intensify achohol so one drink is like 3 for me!

  • Chernynkaya : Yeah–that’s the downside–I don’t have the stamina I used to. Once every few months tho, we are up all night. Fortunately I never get hung over.

  • SallyT : Well, you catch me early enough in the evening and I can party hardy with ya!

  • Chernynkaya : Funny, I used to be so conventional in my 30’s-40’s and NOW i party.

  • SallyT : I use to was a party animal…..now I’m just a party poob.

  • Chernynkaya : I need another bartender. I can hardly type as it is!

  • SallyT : Honey, you set them up and I’ll drink em!

  • Chernynkaya : Good–me too. And I prefer vodka martinis, or better still, those James Bind ones, with both gin and vodka.

  • SallyT : I like olives!

  • Chernynkaya : Yep–I unlocked the cabinet.

  • SallyT : So, am I suppose to go down to where you looked like a chainlink fence and pick something?????

  • Chernynkaya : Help yourself, Sally! It with olives–hope that’s ok.

  • SallyT : Poison? I want the Martini!

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, and we had an early dinner out and I already imbibed–but only one martini. So far. I am just a teeny bit teepsy.

  • Chernynkaya : Don’t forget that Vox Populi starts in 15 minutes with me as the (heh) moderator (although I am hardly the moderate type). Please see the links below to name yer poison!

  • SallyT : AdLib, Cher, jkkFL, Tex, where did you all go? I got on and you all left? I can take a hint………..

  • SallyT : Ah, Betty Ford died. I liked her. She was a real dame.

  • SallyT : Cher, sweetie, you look like a chainlink fence! What are you telling me?

  • AdLib : Cher – Try using bit.ly at this link to use shorter links on VP that will work: «link»

  • jkkFL : umm- poltergeists now???

  • jkkFL : aww, thanks tex.

  • jkkFL : aww, thanks, tex.

  • texliberal : Not to worry jkk, brought back a case of Huegenot Red from the Chuamette Winery in my wife’s home town, Ste Genevieve Mo. Good Midwestern grapes, none of that sissy California stuff. I’ll share.

  • jkkFL : LMAO! guess it’s byob tonight @ vox…

  • Chernynkaya : Important links for tonight’s Vox Pop: «link» 00.com/images/be ermug.jpg «link» ersdata.info/wp- content/uploads/ 2011/05/martini- main_full.jpg «link» garitaslmix.com/ images/Margarita %20glass%20photo %20small.jpg «link» ngislandpress.co m/2011/wp-conten t/uploads/2010/1 2/Mojito-Parisie n-260o.jpg «link» eeze.com/wp-cont ent/uploads/2007 /10/scotch8.jpg «link» ows.com/articles /three-milkshake s.jpg

  • jkkFL : Cmon over tex- I do, and vox will be ‘Dry’ tonight!!

  • jkkFL : Aw Man!!! if Cher has the key- Cher will be the only one having refreshments tonight.. AdLib, you Know how she is with her liquor. She even locks up the wine in boxes. ;)

  • texliberal : It’s 104 degrees here in Big D today, anybody got a pool I can borrow?

  • AdLib : jkk – Cher has the key to the liquor cabinet, I’d suggest kissing up to her tonight.

  • AdLib : Sue – I just bought new slipcovers for the couches at The Planet, no one’s getting guacamole dip on them or I’ll be so upset!

  • AdLib : 2CCP: Just wanted to set it all up for Cher for tonight. VP begins at the regular time tonight!

  • 2ndClassCitizenPun : Are we starting early?

  • jkkFL : I’ll bet you aren’t leaving any beer either, are ya???

  • SueInCa : AL you take all the fun out of us having a substitute mod

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events, begins right here at 7:00 pm PDT. Chernynkaya will be guest hosting for me tonight, thanks so much, Cher! And just because I won’t be there, no jumping on the furniture and no fireworks.

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Chernynkaya
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Chernynkaya

After I left last night, I see that the conversation went to Goopers as cartoon characters. I couldn’t resist spending the morning thinking of my match-ups:

Eric Cantor= Lady Tremain, Wicked Step-Mother of Cinderella
[img]http://bit.ly/pIY1TR[/img]

John Boehner= Droopy Dawg
[img]http://bit.ly/k2WhIw[/img]

Mitch McConnell= Yertle the Turtle
[img]http://bit.ly/r89GlK[/img]

Rick Santorum= Quagmire (Family Guy)
[img]http://bit.ly/lN9xHQ[/img]

Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin= The evil step-sisters
[img]http://bit.ly/rahKYl[/img]

Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman= Thing 1 and Thing 2
[img]http://bit.ly/jdDeh4[/img]

Newt Gingrich= The Brain
[img]http://bit.ly/nqtMVK[/img]

Tim Pawlenty=Bevis
[img]http://bit.ly/hnLJCr[/img]

Rick Perry= Yosemite Sam
[img]http://bit.ly/obwzgo[/img][img]http://bit.ly/nqtMVK[/img]

Rupert Murdock== Governor Ratcliff

[img]http://bit.ly/qwLdli[/img]

Haley Barbour= Foghorn Leghorn
[img]http://bit.ly/omV6hB[/img]

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13 years ago
Chernynkaya
Member
Chernynkaya

ooops==The Brain is Newt

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13 years ago
AdLib
Author
AdLib

That…is…perfect!

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13 years ago
Chernynkaya
Member
Chernynkaya

I have to say, that one was my best one. He actually looks exactly like him to me.

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13 years ago
AdLib
Author
AdLib

😆 These are hilarious! I’m going to put together everyone’s cartoon versions of GOP noms into a post next week! Maybe for fun, add a poll for people to vote on which one they think best suits the person!

And we should open it up to ancillary “characters” in the GOP too.

After all the stress and tension they’ve caused us, would seem to be a nice time to have a laugh at their expense.

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13 years ago
Chernynkaya
Member
Chernynkaya

HAH! Thanks, AdLib. I wish I knew more obscure (and the newer) cartoons. I bet if we really searched we could find ones which looked AND acted like these bozos.

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13 years ago