Vox Populi – 1-22-2010

AdLib : WELL, THAT WAS FUN, OUR EXTENDED CHAT. WE’RE ENDING VOX POPULI NOW AND MAY I SAY WHAT A GREAT TIME I HAD WITH ALL OF YOU! YOU CAN CONTINUE AT THE AFTERCHAT HERE: «link»

nellie : I’m just about done IN

escribacat : I think so. It’s been 2 hours!!

Khirad : So, are we done now?

Khirad : I love it nellie!

boomer1949 : no khirad, only if you wanted to see me in a bikini

FlyingLotus : LOL, nellie

AdLib : Nellie –

boomer1949 : nellie —

Khirad : Ken Doll!!! You nailed it. boomer, I’d pay for the magazine that had his daughters in bikinis… I’m sure you all think less of me now… but I gotta be honest.

escribacat : LOL

FlyingLotus : AL, thanks that’s great!Now all I need is a magnifying glass.

nellie : Can you imagine if someone slipped and said Centerfold Brown instead of Senator Brown?

boomer1949 : Are we here or there? And Brown’s pic with his bikini clad daughters — not…

nellie : The Senator is the Centerfold

AdLib : SO MA gets a Ken Doll as a Senator.

escribacat : Foot in mouth disease

nellie : These are his DAUGHTERS for crying out loud

AdLib : How creepy was Brown pimping his daughters like that? I took a shower but still don’t feel clean.

nellie : But geez — a little decorum

nellie : They were cute

Khirad : They were kinda hot… Still, squirm-worthy.

nellie : Yes. Foot in mouth disease.

escribacat : Yuck. A lot like Palin

AdLib : Rahm is a failure and should be let go.

boomer1949 : so…where the heck are we supposed to be?

nellie : Scott Brown and his “available” daughters — eeeek

Khirad : I was wondering AdLib. I imagined it could be from both sides. Time to herd some cats and suck it up, like I said. Crack the whip. Is Rahm worth none of his reputation?

AdLib : FL – Click on View – Zoom – Zoom Out – you can do it multiple times and Zoom In if you go too small.

escribacat : Yes, it was. I’ve been grumpy and weirded out all week

nellie : This was a bad week

nellie : They’re probably all in shock

escribacat : Anything else will be LESS

nellie : I hope so.

FlyingLotus : AL, firefox.

escribacat : Nellie, hopefully they’re all just venting. At some point they must realize this is the best option — to pass the senate bill.

AdLib : FL – What web browser do you use?

Khirad : I agree, I should have mentioned Frank too. There was an element of venting there on both accounts. I’m all mixed up and contradicting myself… oy!

nellie : Got really po

nellie : I heard Woolsey on Olberman (?).

AdLib : The House has Dems on the right and left who wouldn’t vote for the bill. It sliced off too many from both sides.

FlyingLotus : Laptop and technically challenged.

nellie : At this point, it’s the progressives

Khirad : Yeah, I got that AdLib, what I should have said is that if there’s any progressive votes that won’t suck it up, we should gun for them. Is it them or the Blue Dogs holding the house up?

AdLib : FL – Are you on a laptop? They give you less real estate. If you just Zoomed Out or reduced the size of the page on your browser, you should see it all without having to scroll. Let me know!

escribacat : Kh, I think it was venting…like Frank.

nellie : And then figure something out

nellie : Think about this court decision and Brown

Khirad : I hope she left it open. I hope I was harping on a misunderstanding or edited comment to gin up rage. I think she’s more savvy than that, honestly.

nellie : They need to cool off

nellie : I think Pelosi was speaking out of anger and frustration

nellie : Brown winning threw a lot of people into a tailspin. Remember Barney Frank came off the rails and had to recant the next day…

AdLib : Khirad, Pelosi was explaining she didn’t have the votes and that the House wouldn’t pass the Senate bill.

FlyingLotus : Can I make a wee suggestion?Would it be possible to place meesage box above comments?Scrolli ng down to make measssage and reading, well , let’s just say I’m not a juggler.Ducking now.

escribacat : Khirad, I will check into that. I thought she left it open

Khirad : Pelosi statements were the day and day after the Brown election. Maybe I misinterpreted it. She basically said it was a no-go, though, I thought.

nellie : Sounds like a plan!

AdLib : nellie – can I interview you? You can interview me!

escribacat : Adlib — cool!

nellie : I think we should do interviews

AdLib : escrib – Kind of joking but I have set up an account for The Planet at a webcast radio site, when and if we want to do that.

FlyingLotus : Khirad, hope so, I can scream.

AdLib : Lots of screaming and a bit of whining…from me.

escribacat : You’ll have to scream and pluck at your shirt at the same time

KQuark : I missed that Khirad.

Khirad : Will there be plenty of screaming?

escribacat : Adlib — what radio show?

AdLib : Wait until we start our radio show!

KQuark : My heart needs the rest anyway.

FlyingLotus : AL, hope so.I skipped typing class cuz I fancied myself a creative type.Kick to my arse!

Khirad : I agree KQ, but her comments on throwing all reform under the bus because, as I inferred, it wasn’t as progressive as the house bill, ticked me off.

AdLib : KQ – I’m with you, brutha.

AdLib : FL – After this chat ends, we can head over to the AfterChat post. Much calmer there but not as exciting as this format.

KQuark : The format is so furious it literally gets up my heartbeat.

AdLib : FL – So glad to have you join us though. You get used to it. The first time we did this it scrolled too fast, was kind of funny.

Khirad : Oops, too soon, we may be extending this, FL, how about practicing now it’s slowing down.

FlyingLotus : I get you.This format is too fast for me to explain further.

escribacat : I’m going to email her and urge to pass the senate bill. I already emailed my rep

KQuark : Pelosi has the most balls in leadership.

Khirad : It’s over FL, join us where it’s slower.

escribacat : FL – you were !

AdLib : We can continue until 9pm PST if folks here would like?

FlyingLotus : Are there roller blades for fingers?Lively? I, felt like I was on the autobahn tonight!!

Khirad : Sure KQ, if Pelosi has anything to do with it … oy…

nellie : BETTER not!

AdLib : KQ – Absolutely! As long as I can change my arguments to beat yours!

escribacat : KQ I HOPE NOT

KQuark : There’s really one option folks. Will the House stop healthcare reform?

boomer1949 : Flying L — true — but a President, manager, line manager,anyone in a leadership role is only as good as the people who work for/with him. Therefore, if they ain’t doing their job, someone has dropped the ball.

nellie :

escribacat : Nellie, I think so too!

nellie : Thank you e — it must have been your idea, too. We ARE mentally linked, you know.

Khirad : Way too high. Single payer should have been put up – if only to haggle down. But so many were too delusional with their expectations.

KQuark : Can I spell check what I wrote before you public Adlib. Just kidding

escribacat : Nellie I thought that was the best idea of all

nellie : Well said, Khirad

Khirad : Okay nellie, agree with that, just wanted to make sure. Past a point all political capital had been strained, back then might’ve been doable.

escribacat : KQ exactly…they set the EXPECTATIONS too high

nellie : Look how popular the medicare extension idea was

AdLib : OKAY FOLKS, IT’S TIME TO COMPLETE TONIGHT’S EDITION OF VOX POPULI. WHAT A GREAT AND SPIRITED CHAT TONIGHT! DON’T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I WAS TYPING A MILE A MINUTE! MIGHT HAVE EVEN SPELLED A FEW WORDS CORRECTLY. WE CAN CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION NOW AT THE AFTERCHAT POST, CLICK HERE TO GO THERE: «link»

nellie : Medicare for All could have caught on

escribacat : Everyone says they should have started with single payer but the country might have gone into shock over that

KQuark : This will be diagnosed for decades and there are plenty of people to blame. Like I said the strategy was sound the tactics were faulty and that goes from Obama to Reid down. You can’t say that progressives did not slow this down either. They knew they did not have the votes for the PO a long time ago and the problem was they would tell everyone early the bill was not going to have it.

nellie : In august — while the Finance Committee was dithering — excuse my french

Khirad : nellie, started over when?

escribacat : No insult. I literally couldn’t process it. Must be tired.

Khirad : I know, I caught the double negative too late, e’cat.

Khirad : AdLib – -that’s where I was going with the bribing!

escribacat : Khirad, My brain can’t process those double negatives

FlyingLotus : Boom, sorry, maybe I can’t keep up with format.My point is Dems, including O should have known what the GOP would do.

AdLib : $50 million for lobster trap research.

Khirad : Is there nothing Maine doesn’t want? Let’s get creative. (joking, of course)

nellie : In august

nellie : they should have started over

AdLib : I can understand Obama not knowing the character of Senators as well, but Reid? He’s been there for decades.

KQuark : The Finance Committee had to get a bill out no matter what.

nellie : Geez

escribacat : Why did Snowe jerk their chain for so long??????

nellie : Olympia Snowe. Give me an effing break

nellie : They weren’t smart about those people. Neither Obama nor Reid

boomer1949 : FyingLotus–the old adage is “give them enough rope…” in this case it didn’t happen. I can udnerstand the logic, but these folks are racist and obstructionists.

escribacat : I seriously wonder if Obama actually believed Ghastly Grassley would sign on to HCR

AdLib : So…can we really argue against Reid being incompetent? He counted Lieberman and the Blue Dogs, all owned by Insurance, as part of his 60?

nellie : THey got punked

nellie : Corrected

nellie : Once the bill was stalled in the finance committee, they should have course correcgted.

escribacat : Nellie — yep

nellie : Not being smart about those blue dogs

nellie : Not knowing the senate

nellie : that’s where I think the big mistake was made

Khirad : Too much? Seriously, she makes me po!

escribacat : Adlib — that’s a good point! I wouldn’t have trusted that weasel

AdLib : escrib – I agree, Lieberman surely lied and double-crossed everyone but why would they have trusted him in the first place after he was going to be McCain’s VP and savagely attacked Obama with lies during the campaign?

escribacat : Khirad I’m shocked!

Khirad : Good point AdLib, I think many have pointed out that my own premature autopsy had forgotten several key points, strategically.

escribacat : Yep

nellie : WTF w those folks

nellie : And Nelson, and Lincoln

nellie : Yes, I think so

escribacat : Reid

escribacat : I think Lieberman double crossed Obama and Ried

AdLib : KQ – Nope, that absolutist thinking is what harmed the bill this time. Instead of tempering involvement he concluded, “If Hillary blew it by being involved, I’ll keep my distance and there won’t be problems.” He was wrong, there was a middle ground and that should have been chosen.

nellie : Maybe that’s the president’s fault for not seeing the blockage in the senate — I will conceded that

escribacat : Fl — yes, they took it and ran with it

Khirad : I like hamster too. You do know I’m stealing that and will never refer to the beady-eyed one by her name again, right?! Lord, she probably needs a flashlight to write her blogs from so far up her ass.

FlyingLotus : I was very frustrated that the GOP were allowed ie; given a wide berth to frame(lie) the health care debate.That should never of happened.Huge mistake

KQuark : I can’t stand her.

escribacat : KQ — I don’t know why they would ….I still don’t get how a merged bill would get past Lieberman

nellie : Maybe that’s Reid’s fault — I don’t know

nellie : I see a senate that screwed up

KQuark : I think when both bills passed the chambers that’s when Dems became complacent.

boomer1949 : Khirad — image, dear image.

nellie : I just can’t really go there. I don’t see it that way

AdLib : nellie – that tour was after the teabaggers had so poisoned the well, why didn’t he do that before and define the bill? He left a vacuum which Palin, teabaggers, the insurance corps and others filled with poison. He messed up big time by being so hands off.

Khirad : boomer, LOL at wiki-naked, I was trying to multitask checking out OR health care.

boomer1949 : KQ – hamster

escribacat : Well, I think we can all agree that the tactics didn’t work too well.

KQuark : I still don’t see where pushing for the same things we did before and getting different results will work.

boomer1949 : nellie – 60 votes, we’re a shoe in = no pronlem we can coast. jeeze, what planet did they fly in from?

nellie : Thanks e’cat — I will look into that

KQuark : Adlib that’s what killed Hillarycare. I think the strategy was right the implementation failed.

escribacat : Cheyenne chief trying to make peace

Khirad : nellie – good point, I had actually forgotten about that tour. Still, he should have come back later and shown some frustration or something. Damned be the separate branches of gov’t!

nellie : Black Kettle? No .. what is that/

boomer1949 : apologies…keyb oarding is my day job…and I’m very exceptional at it…however this is soooo different.

AdLib : KQ – Obama never submitted a bill, an outline a list of requirements, this is what presidents do when they are investing themselves in a bill.

nellie : Or worked on Medicare for All

escribacat : KQ — that was my response too

nellie : They should have worked on pieces

nellie : They didn’t

escribacat : Nellie, ever heard of Black Kettle?

KQuark : Yeah I replied to Hamster with allot of “F” words. Like I said the only people not learning something from this are progressives.

nellie : The biggest error was acting like they had 60 votes

nellie : Seriously, this guy can’t win

escribacat : Adlib, definitely

nellie : I think we’ve all forgotten the town hall tour that the president took — and the GOP complaining that he was on tv too much

AdLib : escrib – Hamsher is on Arianna’s team.

KQuark : The way I remember it was Obama was pushing early and often and was rebuffed by congress. Then it actually started building a air of inevitability in congress and it slowed down towards the end. The biggest error was complacency

boomer1949 : three branceh–Exec., Leg., and judicial? Right? Ph please let me be right. No Wiki totally naked here.

escribacat : KQ, I got an email from FDL asking me to sign a petition to the house NOT to pass health care. So she’s still against it

AdLib : The appearance to the public, and I remember polls at the time confirming this, was that Obama needed to be more involved in the process. Again, this was widely recognized.

Khirad : Yup, the benefits of reform got lost in the sausage making. Wiener was right about that. People are fatigued by the whole process. I’ve got to admit, so am I. A long fight is worth it if we could get something out of it, but I want to get what we can salvage at this point and move to something else. I agree, Obama should have shown more leadership earlier on HCR, at least optically in addition to likely backroom discussions.

escribacat : I remember a few comments but not that many from congress complaining that O wasn’t involved enough

escribacat : Yes, I know Obama stayed away but I’m not sure that was a problem for congress

boomer1949 : AdLib, these folks in Congress are not Kindergartners. Actually some of the 5 year olds in my daughter’s class are more in touch with reality than these folks, It’s why they were lected and give n the responsibioity.

KQuark : I see allot of healthcare experts some who were on the fence have sent a letter to the prez and congress to pass the Senate bill and have the prez. sign it. They realize what an opportunity we are missing now.

AdLib : escrib – I saw them on the news constantly. Obama made it clear he was stepping back and letting Congress work it out, that’s an accepted truth about the way this was handled.

escribacat :

nellie : E’cat, we are mentally linked

escribacat : I know HP made it seem like there was, but was there really?

escribacat : Adlib, I’m not sure there was that much complaining going on from congress

nellie : Well, I don’t know who was saying that. A lot of other people were saying he was working behind the scenes. People tend to cya.

KQuark : The point is you get tough things done and people appreciate it after the fact. The HCR processes has been soooo long and so public that it’s just a nebulous piece of legislation. If it was enacted people would look at it in a very different light.

AdLib : nellie – So many Dems in Congress complained throughout that they needed his leadership, that he was MIA, that he had handed it off to COngress without being a leader on it.

escribacat : Nellie, that’s what I remember too

nellie : I can’t remember….

Khirad : Who was it that said one should govern like they only had one term? Should that be the plan?

nellie : At least not rhetorically

nellie : he can’t be more committed than that

nellie : Yes — he has said he would be a one term president if that meant getting health care passed

KQuark : PhD candidate

AdLib : He has not and did not put it on his shoulders. He put it on the Congress’ shoulders. Will he take it up and fight hard for it?

boomer1949 : Well, AdLib none of the rest of them has been politicallt correct–right? What goes around comes around and if they deserve a fyou, so be it…

KQuark : It just won’t matter Adlib it’s like a PhD going to have his thesis challenged when it’s not done.

Khirad : No kidding KQ, can you believe the Ed’s were saying scrap it and start over not that long ago? Makes me steamed!

nellie : ha ha!

escribacat : jinx nellie!

nellie : What is it you want him to say?

nellie : AdLib – I think he’s already done that.

escribacat : Adlib, I think he has already staked his presidency on HCR

Khirad : Yes, he needs to use the bully pulpit to do some grand talk about HCR, admit mistakes, get real, channel populist anger, then get big with some brand new policy initiative or vision – pivot and look forward. He ran as the outside antiestablishmen t candidate. He needs to tap that vein again, if he can.

KQuark : I still have yet to see any progressive take responsibility for how they hindered the process. As soon as the Hamsters and Deans of the world said kill the bill HCR was dead.

boomer1949 : AdLib, do think he’s let me speak. I could do it after a couple of glasses of Merlot. Maybe that’s what these Yahoos need (so maybe not me), but regular people, you know the ones they are supposed to represent?

AdLib : Obama was cautious through this whole process not to put his thumbprint too big on HCR, he handed it to Congress and stepped back. Will he become aggressive and stake his presidency on getting something meaningful passed, pushing it on Capitol hill, in the media, twisting arms and cajoling?

nellie : He tends to talk about what we need to get done

nellie : But I don’t think that’s his way

nellie : I think he has a long list of accomplishments, if he wants to go in that direction

FlyingLotus : O’s a tenacious sort but also a gentleman.Whatev er he does he needs to drop the bipartisanship cuz it’s just mucking up everything.Imho.

KQuark : Put it this way right now their is no big accomplishment that people care about that he’s done. He stabilized the banks yeah. But that won’t sell.

nellie : He has pressed for it before

nellie : What does that mean, AdLib

escribacat : Nellie, I agree with you again.

AdLib : nellie – Will he put his neck on the line to aggressive press for HCR?

nellie : That’s his style

nellie : And where we should go from here.

boomer1949 : KQ – okay, but Joey was — well you know.

nellie : And the missed opportunity

nellie : And he’ll talk about all the mistakes and missteps

nellie : He’ll talk about health care.

KQuark : No time for action so the talk better be good.

AdLib : Boomer – LOL!

KQuark : Maybe Congress need to listen to him when he urgently wanted a bill passed boomer.

AdLib : KQ – So, all talk and no action after the SOTU?

nellie : Khirad — she needed the Sarah Palin treatment

boomer1949 : First of all, I’d like to see him call out Joe Wilson and tell Mr Joe to go F himself — and that’s just for starters.

KQuark : Obama will have a populist message that will satisfy Huffy types and play to the polls.

Khirad : nellie – she coulda used some handlers, and someone telling her to put down the mohito in the cabana and jump on back to MA.

nellie : He has to talk about health care. It’s the elephant in the room. No pun intended.

boomer1949 : Mr. O has been getting some crappy advice. He needs to start listening to those of us who put him where he is. I don’t trust Timmy G., or Bernancke, or any of the others with hidden umbical cords. Vetting only means one is squeeky clean, not that one is not beholden to another.

KQuark : Worse it would not have really mattered if the Dems realized the short time frame they had to pass big legislation.

Khirad : Überridiculous – this is another discussion altogether…

nellie : I think she would have lost no matter what — unless the DNC had stepped in and gotten a rein i=on her

AdLib : ONTO OUR LAST AND RELATED TOPIC: WHAT WILL OBAMA SAY IN HIS SOTU ADDRESS? WILL HE ADDRESS HCR OR PIVOT TO SOMETHING ELSE LIKE FINANCIAL REFORMS? WILL HE DECLARE A CAMPAIGN ON SPECIFIC THINGS INCLUDING DODT, DOMA, ENVIRONMENTAL LAW? IF HE DOES, DO YOU THINK HE WILL REALLY COME OUT FIGHTING OR WOULD HE SETTLE BACK INTO A DISTANT AND MORE PASSIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH CONGRESS?

nellie : She made so many mistakes

nellie : Yankee fan, Yuk Yuk

KQuark : If Obama and the Dems had gotten something done it would have changed all the dynamics.

nellie : She was ridiculous

Khirad : Indeed, it was Coakely’s to lose.

nellie : I don’t think we can look at MA as a blueprint

nellie : But the Dem candidate threw the race away

FlyingLotus : I can’t juggle this format.:-{

KQuark : A Republican got voted in MA Adlib.

KQuark : Obama is not worried about GOP criticism he’s worried about losing the middle now.

KQuark : escribacat exactly.

AdLib : escrib – Obama has way more coverage he can use if he wouldn’t be self-conscious about the GOP criticism for using it. Bush wasn’t shy about using iot to sell the Iraq war.

boomer1949 : I can’t juggle – does that count?

KQuark : I agree Adlib about the testes we only differ on what to get done. I hate to quote Occam’s razor but the their is an easy path in all this.

nellie : HA!

AdLib : boomer – at Balls R Us.

boomer1949 : I know, I know — rhetorical stuff — I knwo. Sorry…

escribacat : boomer

escribacat : It’s too bad Obama doesn’t have a FOX news that will promote his platform no matter what he does.

nellie : You can’t run against the GOP. You have to run on your record

boomer1949 : AdLib, I didn’t knwo those could be rented. Where?

AdLib : KQ – It is not 1994, the dynamics are very different. The GOP was resurging then, it is still a 30% party.

Khirad : Force the GOP to define their solutions. The more Tea Party and Libertarian voters, the better for the Dems? Try to split the right. Why not try – this is but a tertiary strategy on top of core fundamentals, of course.

nellie : They’ll find results

KQuark : New stimulus without immediate results will fit more with the GOP campaign.

AdLib : escrib – I agree, I think the Dems have no choice but to rent some testicles. And Obama knows he has to get aggressive now to or he will become “the enemy” of those opposing passive government.

KQuark : Adlib history is on my side they will blame Dems like 1994.

escribacat : Yep yep yep nellie

nellie : And they’ll run on those three issues

escribacat : Nellie I agree!! We will get something.

nellie : We’ll get a jobs package

nellie : We’ll get some kind of banking reform.

nellie : My prediction — we’ll get some kind of health care package

AdLib : So 3 states have Universal health care and 47 don’t? That’s 94 senators who have to face the music.

boomer1949 : I think the Prez did, I truly believe he has some crappy advisors. He needs to listen to us Planeteers to get the point. We only have a vested interest in each other…no corp., no healthcare corp., no bank, nothing but real life. all the rest of them just want to steal more from the folks they’ve stolen from anyway.

KQuark : So is saying I stopped the healthcare bill to fight corporations.

Khirad : Indeed KQ, we are a fickle bunch.

escribacat : Dems will run against the “party of NO”

escribacat : Adlib, I doubt they’d try that!

KQuark : When it comes down to base politics Dems always lose.

Khirad : Okay, FL, I saw you were having hiccups.

AdLib : KQ – I agree that is a loser and if they think that “It’s not our fault we failed, they made us fail!” is going to energize voters , they are insane.

KQuark : The Dems don’t have a reliable base like the Repubs.

FlyingLotus : This fantastic technology reminds me of jump rope as a kid.I’ll just sit and read till I can jump in.

KQuark : OR and VT

Khirad : Say what you will about the Rovian strategy of relying solely on the motivated hardcore base, but at least they catered to them.

KQuark : The Dems will run on the platform of we almost did something. That’s pretty hollow to me.

AdLib : KQ – How many other states have that?

AdLib : Do the Dems and Obama “get” that if they don’t do more to serve the people who voted them in, they will lose everything in a matter of time?

nellie : I thought they had a statewide system in MA

KQuark : Adlib in the liberal state of MA they like their all private healthcare system.

nellie : All over again

Khirad : Déjà vu indeed!

FlyingLotus : This fantastic technology reminds me of jump rope as a kid.

boomer1949 : i was terrible at jump rope, much less double dutch. at least this makes my brain and myfingers try to work together, and I don’t need to pay for therapy!

AdLib : Deja vu!

FlyingLotus : This fantastic technology reminds me of jump rope as a kid.

nellie : People simply can NOT stay at home

boomer1949 : flying lotus,

AdLib : KQ – Then we will have to agree to disagree on this. I will bet you $1 that if this is the case, you will see many ads against Repubs for voting to let insurance companies ripoff and destroy the lives of Americans.

nellie : That’s why this demoralizing trend has got to be reversed

FlyingLotus : This fantastic technology reminds me of jump rope as a kid.

Khirad : Hi flying lotus!

nellie : YEP

KQuark : Dems had the power and did nothing with it.

escribacat : Khirad — those clowns already have health care so they didn’t ive a damn

nellie : That’s what turned that election

nellie : A lot of people stayed home in MA

KQuark : In 2012 if Romney runs on healthcare even the horrible private kind progressives keep on crying about I’m voting for him because I know he got it done in MA.

boomer1949 : lieberman should be ?-? okay eat rat poison…

Khirad : I know e’cat, that’s what ticks me off about the MA prog – if there were any who sat home or figured they didn’t want to pay more on top of their state coverage plan, I’d like to smack them upside the head.

escribacat : KQ but the dems DON’T have the power!

AdLib : Khirad – Yes, I think if not for the Brown vote, Obama would have continued this middling, bipartisanship, light hands on the reigns approach. He has this year to turn things around for this year and 3 years to turn things around for 2012.

FlyingLotus : This fantastic technology reminds me of jump rope as a kid.

boomer1949 : khirad, i’m disappointed in nancy, ibelieve she’s let all of us down and has no clue what’s really going with the majority of people in this country.

escribacat : KH — that sounds like a rationalization all right

KQuark : I just don’t agree Adlib. People vote you back in for what you did. If people were blaming the GOP for obstructing that would be different but they are not. People are saying why aren’t Dems doing anything when they have the power.

nellie : I don’t know what we take from that

nellie : Scott Brown — yeeesh

Khirad : Does anyone buy the rationalization that if there is anything “good” – and there isn’t – to be taken from the Brown thing, it is as Lawrence O’Donnell said, a fair warning like they didn’t get prior to ’94?

nellie : Counting Lieberman as the 60th vote — very stupid

boomer1949 : AdLib, on the other hand, I can understand his attempt, but that is because he’s an idealist. unfortunately, unless one has been around the block a few times, one does not have wisdom. wosdom comes from experiencing life, the world. not that he isn’t a good person with good ideas, but man AdLib I could have given him better advice than some of his cabinet for dog’s sake!

nellie : Yep, AdLib

AdLib : FL – POP!

AdLib : nellie – Yes, Lieberman and the Blue Dogs. As Nelson proved, if Lieberman didn’t blackmail The Senate, he would have or Kent Conrad or Evan Bayh. The Dems only have around 54 votes at best and they should have planned this campaign like that.

nellie : Hey FL!

escribacat : Hi Flying…

KQuark : Adlib it’s fine Obama has changed his message but that’s not the same as accomplishments that you can point to.

nellie : I don’t think they have a bottom any more

escribacat : Adlib..most of their constituents have coverage already. That’s why they don’t care about reform.

nellie : Well, the GOP has already voted against funding the troops

FlyingLotus : Hi.I like the pop sound!

KQuark : Taking a risk is passing the Senate bill now because it not popular when it’s not real for one thing. I’m not saying don’t improve it at all. You have to have something on your resume big to keep your job. 1994 anyone.

AdLib : KQ – COme on, you know politics. Part of the game is trying to get the other side to vote against feeding babies, protecting our troops, etc., so it can be used in ads to pummel the politician. If a GOP senator votes against their constituents and for Insurance companies to deny them coverage, they will have a lot of trouble.

escribacat : Kh — I hope Pelosi is just making noise. I hope the house passes the senate bill. That’s the best we can hope for at this point

Khirad : I know boomer, I was just trying to come to terms with Pelosi’s absolutist stance on the Senate bill. Stamping your feet in the face of reality really ticks me off. I’ve got to believe she knows better. Is she playing to her constituency?

escribacat : KQ I still don’t get how voting for Scott Brown is a logical alternative for disgruntled progs

nellie : I blame LIeberman

KQuark : People are not blaming the GOP for getting nothing done they are blaming Dems and I don’t blame them.

AdLib : Boomer – I agree and we can only hope that Obama’s populist style speech today is him saying he learned his lesson. No hands off president in this era, ride that horse if you want it to cross the finish line.

boomer1949 : apologies for the soapbox folks

KQuark : Why are GOP members running for reelection going to be pounded when Dems in power do nothing big?

boomer1949 : PT – teletubbies?

boomer1949 : Khirad — AH is a none issue here. She is out there with the dollar signs.

Khirad : I agree, sitting back and playing it safe can lead to anomie and torpor.

KQuark : That’s why the Dems need to finish what they started first. There is simply not time for new major legislation.

escribacat : Boomer, I agree…except there were a handful of senators and reps who really impressed me during this process — Brown, Weiner, Schulz-Wasserman , Pelosi

AdLib : KQ – All those GOP senators have to run for re-election sooner or later, some this Novemeber. And if they vote against their constituents getting these basic benefits, they will be pounded into the ground by their opponents.

boomer1949 : President Obama should have said this is what I want – make it happen. Unfortunately, he believed those in the House and Senate would do the right thing–duh. Sorry Mr. O…these folks need tobe told what to do. If they were real leaders, there would be no room for discussion…why doesn’t he talk to us regular folks anyway. Has always been a cunundrum to me. we’re the ones who matter and we’re not being paid under the table or over the table or with gas cards, or vacation trips, or anything else, been here for along time, and i’ll probably die before i figure it out,,,

escribacat : I would be too

KQuark : I still don’t know how you fool the handful of Senators who don’t want and expansion of Medicare to vote for the first bill.

escribacat :

nellie : bo is po

escribacat : Adlib I agree. It seems that’s where BO is headed too

PatsyT : be back in a few minutes……

nellie : LOL, Khirad

AdLib : With the anti-gov sentiment, a poor economy and voter frustration, I don’t see how the Dems have a winning path by accepting defeat and staying in the middle. They will lose huge. The only way out of this is to be bold, fight and use the rules to get what you can.

KQuark : You have to get 60 for the first part. That is impossible when they know the other part is coming.

escribacat : mo po fo?

Khirad : Yes, po’d.

nellie : Do you think they would filibuster eliminating pre existing conditions?

Khirad : I told you guys, the apostrophe is next to the return… but if you want to make this a thing, I can roll with it – mo po fo y’all! Don’t be a mopo! I like it, come to think of it.

KQuark : You need 60 votes for the first part when people know the second part is coming that they don’t want. You won’t get Lieberman types to agree with the first part when they know the other one is coming. I heard that scenario and why it won’t work.

PatsyT : or po as in tele tubbies ?

nellie : Just kidding

nellie : Either that or po, like in the po house

AdLib : KQ – How complicated is my proposal?

escribacat : pissed off?

nellie : Now I get it!

Khirad : Amen KQ. You think Pelosi might be playing a AH tactic, ginning us up to be furious at the thought of not getting anything out of this?

escribacat : Nellie, I don’t know. Khirad wrote: I am so po

KQuark : And with idiots how do you get a very complicated process you are proposing done?

nellie : All cozy — same alma maters , etc

AdLib : KQ – Here’s the path. One bill that just covers protections for consumers. Pre-existing, denials, etc. that Repubs can’t all oppose so you get 60 votes. Then a second appropriations bill goes through reconciliation needing only 51 votes.

nellie : They’re just too tight

nellie : boomer — not really

boomer1949 : Patsy – because none of them have any balls…

KQuark : We are at the one yard line. Time to stuff through what is there.

PatsyT : The meeting with big pharma should have been on Cspan

nellie : It’s like a club

nellie : Aw — I like Harry. I think these guys are friends and just don’t get tough w each other

boomer1949 : nellie — ho, hoe, hoe

nellie : what is po?

AdLib : I mentioned this in a post before, Harry Reid is an idiot. He’s been in the Senate forever, is the leader of the Senate…and never once questioned that Lieberman, Nelson and the Blue Dogs who are owned by Pharma and insurance compnies, would block real reform. Reid has to lose and be gone.

boomer1949 : Yo, don’t talk about po — it took THREE weeks for me to get my car out of Mechanic’s Horsepistal. I feel like a new woman – but I had to pay $450 to do so…

KQuark : Adlib I still don’t see you giving me a real path to get that done.

escribacat : I can’t believe how far HCR has come and to end it now seems out of the question to me. They can’t just drop it.

nellie : What else…. I know they used it a lot

nellie : The tax cuts

nellie : The repubs passe a lot of legislation w reconciliation

escribacat : Hindsight is 2020

KQuark : Republicans rammed through EVERYTHING with some help from Dems. There is no ramming with 59. Budget reconciliation is too limited and will take too long.

nellie : B Box Rocks

AdLib : KQ – I don’t agree. I think they approached this from the wrong angle, trying to pack everything into a bill that they thought they had 60 votes for, instead of passing the portion Repubs couldn’t oppose then coming back with expanded Medicare and financing the 30 million not covered.

Khirad : Their mistake was being unrealistic about what they could get, too.

boomer1949 : AdLib…’cause the majority (except for my dear Sherrod Brown) are a bunch of wimps. None of them has a back bone and they’d rather waffle than have the back of their President. I’d love to be able to kick a few of them in to the next decade.

KQuark : 2010 elections. When everyone starts campaigning in the Spring. We have about two months of governing left.

PatsyT : Adlib I like it

nellie : I think their mistake was acting like they had a supermajority when they really didn’t have one

nellie : I think that’s a plan AdLib

escribacat : I am sure they want to be done with the damn thing anyway

PatsyT : What are we paying them for – why can’t the majority rule?

KQuark : If it was easy Adlib it would have been done by now.

escribacat : Yeah, KQ how come they don’t have time? what’s the deadline?

nellie : Can’t they pass this clause… and then this clause

nellie : They don’t?

KQuark : They don’t have time to break down the bills.

nellie : Patsy, I vote for Superman

escribacat : Patsy!!

AdLib : Here is my very simple proposition. Pass a bill with the protections for people on pre-existing and cancellation and being denied then ram the financing for expanding Medicare through Reconciliation! WHat’s so hard about that?

Khirad : I agre with you guys too, how come we assume we ever had 60 in the first place? And how come the GOP could get stuff done with a smaller majority… oh, wait, we’re not the obstructionist party of no. Take notes y’all.

PatsyT : I am hoping for a surprise or a superhero to swoop down and make it all better.

KQuark : I know you say no bipartisanship AdLib but the GOP seems to make it work much better than the Dems. The Dems never made the Party of No strategy uncomfortable for them to use.

boomer1949 : AdLib, it’s only insame because none, none of them, except maybe Franken has the balls to stand up to the Republican yahoos and say screw you…

escribacat : nellie I agree now. They should get the pre-existing condition thing through if nothing else (my selfish opinion)

nellie : po?

nellie : That’s where I am right now

escribacat :

nellie : They should break up the bill

escribacat : Khirad, you are so po

Khirad : Aargh, don’t hit return!!! any way, btw, I’m still ticked off the house won’t swallow this bitter pill and take something as better then nothing.

escribacat : How were they going to merge the house an senate bills anyway and get the final bill past lieberman?

nellie : I don’t know what’s wrong w them

KQuark : Pass the Senate HCR bill and have the pres. sign it is the only way to go. The Dems desperately need a victory of some type. Any other initiatives will be much smaller and hard for the public to see.

AdLib : Isn’t it outrageous that the Dems have 59 Senators, the same number they had after the election (Franken was stalled for many months) and suddenly, they’re powerless losers? how insane is that?

escribacat : Nellie — that’s right, never had 60 votes anyway

nellie : They should never have acted like they had 60

boomer1949 : Biden will be the deciding vote – yet everyone is in a panic — oh, oh, the sky is falling!!!

escribacat : I don’t understand their tactics of the past — much less the future!

Khirad : I’m gonna be regurgitating here, but they need a new big vision to reinvigorate and distract from this failure. BTW, I am so po

nellie : They never really had 60 ovets

nellie : I am so confused by the way the dems have been handling themselves, I just don’t know

KQuark : I just don’t see it as that kind of game-changer for the Dems. They will just move more to the center and cater to corporations more. But that’s a bigger danger too me.

AdLib : ONTO OUR NEXT AND RELATED ISSUE. WITH THE DEMS DOWN TO A MERE 59 SEAT COUNT IN THE SENATE AND IN LIGHT OF BROWN’S WIN, WHAT COURSE WILL OBAMA AND THE DEMS TAKE? WILL THEY PLAY IT SAFE OR WILL THEY TRY TO RE-ENERGIZE AND WIN BACK THOSE WHO VOTED FOR CHANGE?

PatsyT : AdLib, I can see it now the Tea baggies to the rescue

boomer1949 : this is what gets my blood boiling…all the money…all the pay off…all the buy outs…all the shhhhh money. Can anyone explain why we continue to allow this to happen? Makes me want to throw up.

Khirad : Indeed, how much longer can the Atwater/Rovian unholy alliance of the religious right with Wall Street maintain itself?

AdLib : KQ – I say again, the dynamics are different in the face of this ruling. With billions to pour into elections, they can just finance their own team and win most every time.

KQuark : If I was a Dem I would still like to have a network that is just a 24 hour commercial for you like Faux news is for the Repubs than corporate loyalty that plays both sides.

AdLib : nellie – that’s an interesting idea, the corps won’t want the fundies in their way, I think they’d take over the GOP and let the fundies and teabaggers form their own ever-losing party.

boomer1949 : KQ, are ou sure I heard Warren on PBS last night and she didn’t sound like she was hanging a COR.

nellie : lol patsy

nellie : They reeeeeeeeeeached

PatsyT : No party No Fun !

nellie : No

Khirad : Thanks nellie, I was seriously confused – and thought I was just too stupid or non-lawyerly to comprehend or something.

KQuark : That does not make sense AdLib they will hedge both sides of the bet.

AdLib : KQ – Why would the corps give money to the Dems if they have their own party? That would be like investing in the Indians when you own the Yankees.

nellie : Parties will be obsolete

nellie : AdLib — what if corps decide to run a candidate as an independent — be beholden to no one but the corp

nellie : Khriad — I don’t think this decision had anything to do w the original issue

AdLib : nellie – nope, the corps will just complete their buyout of the GOP and the Dems will be the also-ran party for decades…until the next crash of the economy.

PatsyT : I can see the script now

KQuark : I don’t agree with that AdLib. Dems will just get more and more on the corporate dole like they have been.

boomer1949 : Elizabeth Warren, why doesn’t the President utilize her beyond being a German Shepard?

Khirad : I myself was scratching my head how they got this from the original case, but I haven’t gotten around to the nitty-gritty of the decision.

nellie : It IS, PatsyT

PatsyT : This is like a bad Sci Fi movie

escribacat : Night choice lady. Feel better!

choicelady : Now – off to bed.

AdLib : Sorry to hear choicelady, feel better!

choicelady : Oop – had to say with respect to Strickland that my ex is in Ohio and thinks Strickland is the best thing that ever happened to education. He teaches at a university though, so maybe there’s a difference?

KQuark : The only problem with Warren is now she is saying no CPA and I don’t think there should be any regulations. I can’t stand that take my ball and go home attitude.

nellie : Both parties will be gone if they don’t fix this now

boomer1949 : cjoice–feel better. those sinus things are mean.

PatsyT : Feel better Choice

AdLib : KQ – Because any Dem with a sliver of a brain will realize that their control over Congress will be gone forever unless they stop corporations now.

nellie : Feel better

nellie : Aw so sorry CL

choicelady : Sorry all – I need to drop out. My sinus infection is making me very sleeeeeeepy. Thanks for the great conversation as always. G’night!

KQuark : It looks like the only real change will happen state by state now.

nellie : Yes, AdLIb — exactly

boomer1949 : al, good luck with Strickland and Ohio, he’s screwed education.

nellie : Wonder what Joe Lieberman thinks about all this…

AdLib : nellie – If there was a court above the SCOTUS they would throw out this ruling for that very reason, it greatly overreaches past the case they were presented.

KQuark : Yes AdLib Congress does have some limited things they can do with corporations but the thing is how do you make those changes when they own congress now?

choicelady : LOve Elizabeth Warren!

AdLib : Boomer – I do know that COngress does regulate corporations. So do states, that may be the way we have to go, state by state.

boomer1949 : khirad, they’re not angry, because they think the rest of us have been suckered into submission.

KQuark : Sorry for that nasty thing anytime you can get back to it please I would love to hear what you think.

nellie : The court answered a question IT WASN’T EVEN ASKED.

boomer1949 : AdLib, any of those sitting before any committee lies — what other PLANET are you from anyway. Do you really think any of them tell the truth or can even spell truth? Only one besides BHO that I trust at this point is my guy Joe Biden and Dr. Elizabeth Warren.

PatsyT : So true KQ

nellie : Khirad — they don’t have much to say about activist judges now

KQuark : Conservatives have no real principles all the care about is getting back into power.

PatsyT : ecat that goodness he is good for something!

Khirad : That last one of mine was mostly rhetorical, btw.

nellie : That’s “Now I know”

choicelady : KQ – will try, but I’m fading out with a wicked sinus infection. Once I get the hang of posting (it screws up on my computer) I will try to write it all out.

AdLib : I mentioned before, Barney Frank is the Chairman of the Committee that regulates corporations. He spoke on Rachel’s show and said they can indeed enact restrictions on corporations.

nellie : Know I know

nellie : And I wondered why Feinstein kept going back to stare decisis

Khirad : My question – why aren’t conservatives mad about contravening stare decisis and being activist?

nellie : Remember all the Sotomayor testimony on precedent?

KQuark : Choicelady that’s one to ponder explain more please on the blog after the debate.

PatsyT : Funny our Pres just happens to be a Constitutional Lawyer

nellie : Precedent is central to the court’s function

nellie : But that was a BIG LIE

AdLib : We all know SCOTUS nominees lie. Isn’t that a sad state of affairs in this nation? Justices start off by lying?

boomer1949 : Fantasy – I hope. Reality – they’ll screw us and the Prez. But he’ll get the shaft…

escribacat : Patsy, I saw McCain on TV — he was bummed about it

KQuark : Not on campaign financing I mean.

Khirad : I’m not even sure how the congress can. I don’t think so, though. – oh no, not stare decisis – it’s like I’m watching the Robert’s confirmation hearings again!!!

choicelady : KQ – and at the write down rate that the company gives to get the cash back from the feds for closing. They can’t have it both ways – company is worth a $1.98 for the tax rebates but $198 million to the employees. That’s double dipping. One or the other, not both.

PatsyT : I heard Snow and McCain are against this lets see how long that lasts

nellie : Stare decisis — following Supreme Court precedent

AdLib : KQ – You must’ve missed my last, Congress CAN make laws restricting corporate behavior.

nellie : They can enact another law

nellie : Congress is the control over the Supreme Court

escribacat : Nellie, what is stare decisis

nellie : Roberts LIED in his confirmation hearing. Stare decisis my aunt fanny

KQuark : Congress can enact laws but now they would be illegal.

nellie : I think this made a lot of people pretty angry

escribacat : My answer is congress will do nothing.

AdLib : BACK TO THE INITIAL QUESTION, HOW MANY HERE THINK CONGRESS WILL ACT TO CURB CONTROL AND HOW MANY THINK IT WON’T HAPPEN OR WILL BE TOO WEAK?

KQuark : The inside game if for a movement towards employee owning corporations. Every time companies close a plant they should try and find financing to buy their company back.

choicelady : Khirad – you are NOT kidding. There already are private armed militias for various corporations. Blackwater is only the most obvious since it also contracts with the gov’t, but it fundamentally is the peacekeeper for corporations raping and pillaging overseas. They are not the only ones.

Khirad : A-ha, how silly of me! Xe! D’oh! Also, they already have the MIC in their pocket…

boomer1949 : blackwater what?

nellie : No running on the thread!

nellie : K– that’s true, but let’s see how far we can take it

AdLib : Beat ya escrib!

PatsyT : ecat Collins Snow and the Penn new dem dude

escribacat : jinx adlib

escribacat : Khirad — Xe / Blackwater leads the way

AdLib : Khirad, we do have Blackwater/XE armed and dangerous.

KQuark : There is an inside and outside game to action. All we can do is play the outside game.

Khirad : I’m kidding, and don’t understand the complexities of constitutional law, but seriously, if corps are people, why not a Cigna militia? They could arm the teabaggers and bust any unions left… why not get it over with? *sigh*

boomer1949 : ‘course none of them ccould live the way the rest of us do.

nellie : NO

escribacat : Did any repubs vote for the stimulus?

nellie : I love this president, but he is too gracious

PatsyT : Yes Nellie ACTION I love all the work you have been putting into this!

AdLib : Nellie – Whoops! Plutocracy is correct! That is what we have been for some time.

escribacat : Thinking back, how the hell did he get the stimmulus passed?

boomer1949 : KQ – agree, they’re dicking around with lives. the lives of s=families, kids, babies, lives period. none of the ceos or anyone on the corporate floors give a rat’s ass bout anyone but themselve, their mortgages, whether their kids stay in private school, screw those in the heartland.

nellie : The bipartisan thing really chaps my hide

choicelady : Depends – it’s happening in the NE more and more because they have NO alternatives. They’ve been down and out for 30-plus years. We in the newly depressed areas will be the LAST sources of innovation. Sun Belt will lag on this sort of thing.

AdLib : I think things would be a little different economically if Obama didn’t “bipartisan” the Stimulus into a much smaller bill.

KQuark : You nailed it nelly and this ruling solidifies it.

nellie : Time for some ACTION

KQuark : Not all corps but definitely big corps.

nellie : Plutocracy — I think that’s where we are now.

AdLib : Some transition…fro m Oligarchy to Fascism.

KQuark : Workers are afraid to unionize, start their own business and change companies.

choicelady : KQ – I’m with you on the slowing of the recovery. Not all corporations, but way too many. And way too many governors – Arnold being one of them.

PatsyT : KQ I think it fits they are doing this on purpose

choicelady : KQ – I do agree, though if you look outside the navel-gazing U.S., you will find some incredibly hopeful things going on. WE have just honed anti-democracy to a fine level, and we’d rather have a lord to follow than actually have to DO anything that takes effort.

AdLib : KQ – I agree.

escribacat : They’ve got workers too frightened to complain about anything

PatsyT : Adlib Agree

escribacat : KQ I do too

boomer1949 : for sure they will, if they haven’t already. the theing is, is that 99.9% of congress is so used to being greased, none of them are willing to give up the smooth & slick feeling they get from the corps.

nellie : I do

KQuark : Who thinks the conservatives in business are happy with the current economic situation and are deliberately slowing the jobs recovery?

AdLib : Nellie – good point, Dred Scott is a good comparison. It would mean though that for some time, this nation will be a de facto fascist state.

nellie : It’s just too heinous to stand

PatsyT : China and the middle east have the most money right now, they would be the big ad buyers

nellie : I think this kind of ruling is like Dred Scott

KQuark : choicelady we are heading toward feudalism anyway.

nellie : I don’t think forever hobbled

choicelady : Khirad – nah. YOur generation are pikers compares to mine. We honed selfishness to a fare-thee-well on ALL sides of the political spectrum. Hey – its’ a gift…

AdLib : DO folks here agree that if Congress doesn’t act within the next couple of months, the corporations will get their claws in and democracy is forever hobbled? At least unless we get 5 Dems on the SCOTUS.

boomer1949 : whoa AdLib — bet Khirad and I are in the same generation — careful there…

Khirad : It is the truth in advertising that disturbs me most. I’d like to follow up to see what state level laws are. See the state’s rights people oppose that! AdLib- deal!

nellie : 2004

KQuark : John Adams also hated democracy and that’s why the Senate is so messed up. The founding fathers had many views.

nellie : That’s 2004!1

nellie : Kind of like the OBL trick in 2994

nellie : It not only buys politicians, what if a corporation ran an ad the day before an election that the opposing candidate was a thief or a murderer. There would be no time to respond

AdLib : Khirad, we’ll blame your generation in the next segment, cool?

choicelady : You know – it will be feudal. Congress will have colors to go with the heraldry of the corporate logo. They will be the knights to the corporate manor lords. I saw this coming years ago, but everyone laughed at me. But what IS it if not a feudal system?

KQuark : Poll driven leadership has been the only thing that worked for Dems in the past.

PatsyT : You know if the company was from say Norway maybe not so bad?

AdLib : Agreed Patsy! The founders spoke out against moneyed entities gaining control of our democracy.

Khirad : Wow, coming down on the boomers? Usually my generation is in the crosshairs as being responsible for all narcissism and modern ills.

boomer1949 : nellie – because it buys votes.

nellie : It is, Patsy

PatsyT : This decision is un American !

KQuark : I still think we should make congress wear patches with their corporate sponsors. At least their should be a website devoted to editing pictures like that.

choicelady : Lord KQ – I so hope you’re wrong.

AdLib : Could allowing lawsuits for violating truth in advertising be done on a state level?

choicelady : e’cat – back to my fear that the boomers are the lost generation – all narcissism, all the time. I look to my younger and much older allies. My generation is pretty much a wash.

PatsyT : boost ?

PatsyT : Lawsuits big boast for trial attn.

AdLib : choicelady – Exactly, Clinton was a corporate friend and NAFTA and globalization handed them so much so quickly.

Khirad : KQ, I think he made fun of that point in a speech today or yesterday.

choicelady : AdLib – like the idea of lawsuits indeed!

KQuark : Obama is going to go the Clinton rout now and not do anything not popular or difficult. It’s just not worth it to the voters to make big changes.

choicelady : I don’t think the right does all the time anymore. I do know the left has to pay attention to Lakoff (“Don’t Think of an Elephant”) and start talking in moral messaging – not religious – MORAL – which they can’t and won’t do.

nellie : @boomer — Log cabin it is!

AdLib : How about this ad appearing: “Vote for Sarah Palin! This ad brought to you by Osama Bin Ladin Headhunters, Inc.”

escribacat : Choice — too many ex hippies transforming into businesspeople

nellie : It would be interesting to look into false advertising laws…

boomer1949 : nellie – go for broke – Log Cabin of course!

choicelady : I like the idea we, the people, could sue for false statements. Where the hell were the liberals the last 30 years? How did we get so run over by all this so we did NOTHING proactive about rights? Oh. Wait. Clinton et al. bought INTO the global corporate mentality. Forgot that.

PatsyT : This canidate is brought to by China

KQuark : For example, Faux News was a constant media add for Brown.

escribacat : Khirad — brought to you by Al Qaeda!!!

nellie : Why is money speech?

AdLib : The corporations could have all the money in the world but if they could be sued by citizens for promoting lies that are provable, that could be a cottage industry to beat that bear back into its cave.

Khirad : Yes, how will they react to UAE paying for ads? Or, this ad brought to you by Fly Emirates! It’ll be like gov’t mixed with English Premier league soccer!

nellie : I don’t think he’s a nihilist like Rand

escribacat : KQ — I agree that the right always wins the message wars

PatsyT : Boycotts perhaps ?

choicelady : nellie – interesting. I know it has different meaning. I’d hate to think he was an Ayn Rand type. Ick.

KQuark : Really I think the media is still a bigger problem. As long as the right has Faux News and right wing echo chamber it does not matter what Dems do in the long run. Because now we see the left media are a bunch of cannibals.

boomer1949 : I love President Obama, but as far as I’m concerned, he is being tooo nice. It’s obvious Congress doesn’t know hoe to work without being told what to do. Jeeeze — why are they there anyway?

nellie : AL — I like that idea

escribacat : Adlib — excellent idea

choicelady : The Repubs don’t care if the party dies just so they have their money base. The lack of concern for the nation or even a philosophy is as base as it’s ever been.

nellie : propaganda is a form of speech

AdLib : Oh and how about passing a law that allows citizens to sue for false advertising if people knowingly lie in their ads?

nellie : I heard Turley on Randi Rhodes today — he calls himself a libertarian — form what I understood

PatsyT : I like that word submission

escribacat : Too bad we can’t differentiate between free speech and propaganda.

AdLib : Patsy – Exactly, this is a great issue for the Dems and they can pummel the Repubs into submission.

choicelady : Patsy and nellie – Turley is a libertarian? I’ve never felt that so much as he’s like ACLU on first amendment issues. On property etc. I don’t see it.

nellie : They should also hammer the fact that w corporate donations, political parties become obsolete

KQuark : That would be a good campaign issue so they can do nothing.

PatsyT : just think Corporations from the middle east telling us who to vote for red states will go wild!

AdLib : Shouldn’t Obama and Congress hammer the Repubs on foreign corporations having influence in our elections?

Khirad : Ooh, the Chávez angle is delicious. Thanks bito, for pointing out the Stevens point, too. I’ll have to check that out.

nellie : Can you tax speech

nellie : Money is commerce

nellie : Thank you! Money is not speech.

KQuark : We let them have too much influence now.

boomer1949 : so how many in Congress are willing to give up the xtras they’ve become used to? No wonder the Repubs are exstatic…

choicelady : e’cat – yes, ACLU and many constitutional people DID support this as ‘free speech’. Since when is money the determinant? I find that link totally illogical.

nellie : Teabaggers — the ultimate in used electorate

nellie : He’s a libertarian

Khirad : Patsy – they’ve been able to skirt that they serve the interests of transnational corporations while playing the pro-American populist card for so long – why would teabaggers catch on now?

PatsyT : Sometimes I don’t get Johnathn Turly

boomer1949 : Choicelady,

choicelady : bito – we may need that, yes.

nellie : So did Jonathan Turley

AdLib : I think Khirad has hit on the strongest angle to leverage Repub Congresspeople, without changes to the laws and regulations, which Congress CAN make, foreign countries will be able to influence our elections. How will that play with the Repub’s xenophobic base?

boomer1949 : KQ — only if we let them, do’t you think?

nellie : They did

escribacat : Anyone know if it’s true that ACLU supported this decision?

bitohistory : Khirad, stevens brought that point up

choicelady : Khirad – Olbermann pointed out CITGO, a Hugo Chavez-dominated corporation, now can meddle in US politics. Hope the RW chokes on that!

nellie : They can require that donations must have majority shareholder approval

PatsyT : I would think quite a few conservatives would be pissed off at this it lets foreign co have their way with our politics.

KQuark : Corporations are now superhumans by any measure.

choicelady : I think Congress can change laws on transparency, the overall laws on campaign funding – whatever makes for a level playing field. It can’t discriminate against any single pary but can curtail ALL parties.

boomer1949 : Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear bito, happy birthday toooo youuuu!

AdLib : As far as I am aware, foreign based corporations are treated the same.

nellie : Wow — letter from CEOs. Congress may actually respond to that. Yuk yuk

bitohistory : I think we are screwed, short of a Const mmend.

choicelady : Both. It will take a lot to get congress to act rather than scamper for their own pot o’ money. Olbermann said that there has been a letter sent BY CEOs asking for public funding of all campaigns to take the burden OFF them. Amazing and hopeful. But I am losing faith in my generation – we whine but do nothing.

escribacat : Good question, Khirad. It’s hard to figure out who owns what nowadays

nellie : Khirad — my understanding is that they can advertise, too

KQuark : Excellent point Khirad.

Khirad : My question – how does this ruling affect corps. partially or majority owned by foreign gov’ts?

escribacat : We will know soon enough what impact this will have

AdLib : Oh yeah! HAPPY B-DAY BITO!

PatsyT : We love you bito

nellie : They can say that all campaigns are publicly financed from now on

nellie : Happy Bday bito

KQuark : I think it will have to become a constitutional crisis to get resolved. Because people are not going to vote enough Dems to change the court soon.

AdLib : KQ – Yes, I heard Barney Frank explain that they do handle oversight of corps and can regulate their behavior.

boomer1949 : PT – I try.

bitohistory : First thing, i want to give a large thanks to everyone for their bday and health wishes. Warms my heart!

nellie : yes they can

KQuark : Congress can’t pass legal restrictions.

nellie : Congres will hit back

PatsyT : I’ll fill you in later.

boomer1949 : Cool, PT. Where are you in real life?

nellie : violin — wonderful!

AdLib : FIRST TOPIC: WITH THE RECENT SCOTUS RULING TO ALLOW CORPORATIONS UNLIMITED POWER IN FINANCING ELECTIONS, DO YOU THINK CONGRESS WILL PASS RESTRICTIONS OR HAVE WE JUST HEARD THE DOOR SLAM SHUT ON OUR DEMOCRACY?

nellie : Log Cabin or organic Vermont on my french toast…. Decisions…. decisions….

PatsyT : Violin at Cleveland Institute of Music

nellie : Hey ecat

boomer1949 : PT-audtion for what?

KQuark : bad joke.

escribacat : What are you talking about?

AdLib : Hey escrib and KQ! Looks like the gangs all here!

nellie : K, what are you talking about.

Khirad : Pepe isn’t here KQ! Hi e’cat!

PatsyT : Hey Ecat !

boomer1949 : KQ — redheads? Me, pick me!

KQuark : Sorry wrong blog.

AdLib : Patsy – break a leg to your daughter!

escribacat : Hello folks

PatsyT : Thanks Nellie

nellie : Good luck, PatsyT’s daughter!! Break a leg!

KQuark : Should I pick up Brunette or Stajan for my fantasy hockey team?

boomer1949 : PT, unfortunately there’s a 3 hour time diference and i’m in the HEARTLAND among cornfields, cow, and BUCKEYE football, basketball, and Gordon Gee!

AdLib : I think he is with The Crossville Chronicle in TN.

Khirad : That’s cool, I hope they run it.

PatsyT : I am going to Cleveland tomorrow Wish my daughter luck she has an audition !

boomer1949 : and she blushes…

AdLib : Patsy, I don’t know, hold on, let me research his email address…

boomer1949 : oh, adlib…sent a note to jon stewart as well. colbert is next on the hit list!

nellie : That’s AWESOME!!!!!!!!

nellie : ADLIB — They’re going to run your piece!!!!!!!!!

AdLib : We’ll wait another minute to see if everyone’s here then begin.

PatsyT : Cool Adlib what paper ?

Khirad : Watching last night’s Daily show again. It was that good.

boomer1949 : WooHoo — applause!!!!!

PatsyT : you are so funny boomer

AdLib : Hi Nellie!

AdLib : Boomer, how wrong you are, my friend!

nellie : Hello!

boomer1949 : hey PT, i’m glad you’re here. i’m sure AdLib didn’t want to spend a couple of hours alone with me!

AdLib : Hey Khirad!

AdLib : While we’re waiting, got an email from a local paper that is interested in running the parody as an editorial or letter.

Khirad : Hi!

AdLib : Hey Patsy!

boomer1949 : so, is everyone in a stupor, i’m usually the one late and running to catch up?

PatsyT : Hi Everyone !

AdLib : Always enjoy them.

boomer1949 : NP – Peter Sagel & Carl Kassel are cool. I hope they take a look see…

AdLib : I figured it out, somehow!

boomer1949 : okay, typo – hey…

AdLib : Heh! Thanks!!!

boomer1949 : Hwy Big Guy, I just turned your lily white over to Wait, Wait Don’t tell me!

AdLib : Hi all! Please say “hi” when you arrive!