Vox Populi – 2-19-2010

AdLib : Yes, we’re over at the post now, come on over and feel free to copy and paste anything here that you think people may have missed. Here’s the link: «link»

javaz : Are we continuing the conversation on the Vox Populi or will I be talking to myself? I’m wound up now, and believe me, I never stay up this late, but the racist bigots and corruption of my state, well, I’ve got to go back to the psychedelic music thread to wind back down.

AdLib : Great javaz, we need to get this story out as much as we can. It’s outrageous!

AdLib : Go get ’em. CL! Patsy, just responded to your comment on the post, will see you and everyone else over there!

kesmarn : Thanks again, c’lady. If you need my email, AdLib has it!

choicelady : kes – I[‘ll work on Toledo links!

kesmarn : Good night, c’lady. Thanks!

javaz : Okay, I will work on it, AdLib.

choicelady : Good night all. I’m off tomorrow to teach about single payer and federal health care to militant Methodists. I know that seems a contradiction, but there you are. Good night!

PatsyT : See you all over there or if not nighty night..

AdLib : We need an article on this, javaz.

javaz : I’m wound up, because I hate bigots.

kesmarn : Awww. Thanks so much, c’lady but (don’t tell anyone)I’m closer to Toledo….ish…

javaz : Are we now going to the main page Vox Populi thing?

AdLib : CL – You are seriously networked, very cool!

choicelady : javaz – it’s a nightmare for you all. Unbelievable!

javaz : Oh, good night and now I’m all wound up again, and maybe that’s my mission in life is to see the end of the bigotry.

AdLib : I saw that PBS segment on it and a 60 Minutes segment. But that’s not enough.

choicelady : kes – You’re in Cleveland? If I have that right, begin with the Unitarian church in Shaker Heights. Dan Budd is the minister and a good guy. He’s bound to have some inkling of the problem and know what community groups are working on it. Trinity Episcopal church on Euclid (2300 Euclid) has a huge community organizing project, Agape Campus community Development. See www,campus-agape .org. I think the Dean of the cathedral, Rev. Tracey Lind, heads it all, but I don’t know the more direct activists. Worth calling to find someone to ask. They are VERY prominent in economic and social justice so would be concerned about the police brutality!

javaz : PBS NOW did a segment but did it do any good? Sheriff Joe and his cronies are under a Federal Grand Jury investigation as we speak, but honest to God, AdLib, you would not believe it.

AdLib : What major film?

PatsyT : AdLib docu yes and a major film

AdLib : GUESS IT’S ABOUT THAT TIME TO END TONIGHT’S SESSION OF VOX POPULI. THANKS SO MUCH TO EVERYONE FOR MAKING THIS ANOTHER VALUABLE AND ENLIGHTENING EXCHANGE. THE CHAT CONTINUES AT THE RELATED POST, CLICK THE LINK HERE TO GO THERE: «link»

AdLib : javaz – has anyone tried to make a documentary about this?

kesmarn : Good night, b’ito! Sweet dreams.

PatsyT : Nighty Night Bito

javaz : Night, B’ito.

kesmarn : I’ll be relieved when/if he’s out of office, though, AdLib.

Khirad : Night!

AdLib : Night!

javaz : Or women in Sheriff Joe’s tent cities that are pregnant, that Sheriff Joe can prevent women from getting an abortion, if they so desire? And if the women come to term and go into labor that Sheriff Joe’s deputies keep the women shackled, because they are flight risks don’t you know, and even when the doctors ask the deputies to take the cuffs off during labor and during birth, that they unshackle their legs, but keep them chained to the bed? This is the shit Mexicans live with in this state, and it just makes me sick.

bitohistory : Good night all! Be kind. Peace

AdLib : bito – We beleave in edjumacation.

AdLib : Kes – Glad to hear it. I learned along the way, you’d be surprised how responsive your reps are when you aggressively pursue them.

bitohistory : To finish! You people “larn” me so much, reminds me of skool.

PatsyT : Bito I appreciate all that you do -You are an inspiration.

kesmarn : “Back atcha” b’ito. Are you taking your leave?

Khirad : And you too bito.

AdLib : Hope you’re feeling well, Bito!

Khirad : LOL Kes. Plenty of Tejano! I hear it in my sleep sometimes! I like the idea of confusing the pigs (no offense to good cops).

kesmarn : AdLib, at least the Fed indictment came down after I had the bad experience, so I felt a little vindicated. The trial is being delayed time after time, though.

bitohistory : I want to thank everyone for a great time and your friendship.

kesmarn : j’avaz, I would be blastin’ Tejano music from my car, windows down, with my silly blonde head out the window, just to confound ’em.

AdLib : kes – state or even national rep would work, they need to know that you have a connection to someone who could cause them a lot of trouble and if they have so much local power, you need someone on state or national level.

javaz : In Arizona, if you are brown, speak Spanish or with a Mexican accent and listen to Mexican music that legally the cops can stop you and demand papers?

choicelady : javaz – I will. It’s not the only time. I have never been seriously harmed, but I’ve lost FIVE friends and acquaintances to death by RW hit people. If someone as ordinary as I can have that occur, you know something is seriously, dangerously wrong.

Khirad : Didn’t ring a bell with me either bito.

AdLib : Patsy – Moyers should be online by tonight. He had an amazing episode last week which I posted links to in an article, did it last Friday night. I always tivo him, will watch it later.

bitohistory : Idon’t think so. Khirad?

kesmarn : Everyone in city govt seems terrified of him. And even the media are intimidated. I didn’t think about the State rep, though, AdLib.

javaz : B’ito, do you have Arriba’s Mexican Restaurant down there? Well, Sheriff Joe just raided one and arrested all of their employees, and we’ve yet to learn how many “illegals” he got from that one.

AdLib : Kes – did you consider contacting your local city council person or state assembly person?

PatsyT : Say kinda OT but Bill Moyers has on judicial elections and how the new BIG $$$ is going to affect their elections… I think it will be on line tomorrow maybe ?

choicelady : javaz – I think that article would be amazing. I think we don’t realize how much the simmering hate or at least resentment from the Civil Rights era has found voice and viciousness once again. I think your comparison would be eye-opening. We are back to needing a civil rights renewal, and this would be a wake up call!

kesmarn : c’lady, my PERSONAL corrupt sheriff is in Ohio, so if you have any Ohio contacts, I’d appreciate it! (Apparently, their numbers are legion!)

Khirad : I regret not going more now. Zack de la Rocha was at the march.

kesmarn : C’lady, Khirad, thanks for your concern and kind thoughts. I figure, I’m still here, so there must be some reason for it!

bitohistory : do’t worry, j’avaz! I’ll smite them with my cane. (Do I need a staff)

choicelady : kes – he’s brave AND he has a wicked sense of humor, too! He’s just a delight. Tell him his ally in CA whom he met once in New Orleans recommended you call. He will help you find people in other parts of AZ. It’s not ALL like that!

javaz : CL, you’ve written before about your run-ins with Operation Rescue and I think that is worthy of an article, if you could.

choicelady : javaz, kes – I have been in the same postion, so I want you safe. You need more allies, and the churches that have weighed in on the side of justice, against this sheriff and other thugs can help you be safe. Surround yourself with others who are on your side. Strength in numbers! It helps to have people who “get it” standing with you or just there to talk. Be safe, and be well!

Khirad : Oh yeah, kes, how petty and ‘evil’ that seems.

kesmarn : j’avaz, do write. It may feel “local” to you, but this is a cautionary tale for the rest of the nation!

Khirad : FWIW ours were in the Ronstadt march, too. «link»

bitohistory : C’Lady, I heard the Tucson Interfaith Council went up too. Good people

AdLib : Poor, tired huddled WHITE masses yearning to brethe free.

javaz : Maybe I should write an article? Do you think? Something that compares Arizona to 1950’s Alabama? I’ve not done that because it seems localized, but do you all think that I should write it?

PatsyT : What ever happened to give me your poor ….

AdLib : Indeed!

kesmarn : Rev. Flaaten must be one brave person, c’lady!

AdLib : CL – Thanks for providing that info, hope our AZ members call on her.

javaz : You really would not believe it.

choicelady : OK folks in AZ, FWIW – the Arizona Ecumenical Council is headed by a great guy, Rev. Jan Flaaten. They are IN the fight on immigration reform etc. They are at 4423 N. 24th St.#750, Phoenix, 85016. Phone -602-468-3818. Seriously call them and talk this out. You need allies, and Jan can give them to you and tell you what strategies they’re using. They were in the march with Ronstadt I believe.

javaz : I could post you links, AdLib, about Sheriff Joe and the AG of Maricopa County that go after elected reps from the county, the mayor of Phoenix, and judges and council people that have criticized him.

kesmarn : My ex-son in law was abusive and when I reported it, the you-know-what hit the fan. He had connections and it was not pretty.

AdLib : AZ sounds like a South American country!

Khirad : I’m scared just imagining it, kes.

AdLib : javaz, it is very upsetting and as CL mentioned, when a small group holds so much power, it goes against everything America is about.

kesmarn : Khirad, I got on the wrong side of one of his cronies and you can hardly believe the misery I endured for about 6 months.

javaz : Oh, my typing is getting bad, but I’m rarely up this late, yet I am fired up again now. I cannot tolerate bigots.

Khirad : I remember that, kes.

javaz : You would not believe the corruption, yet they keep on voting Sheriff Joe in because they racist bigots and hate Mexicans.

AdLib : javaz – you’re safe here, no one can get any personal info from seeing your username.

PatsyT : Bito You are the coolest

kesmarn : j’avaz, our county sheriff has been indicted by the Feds for “allegedly” covering up a jail house murder. While he awaits trial, he still has his job! And still carries a gun!

bitohistory : Kh, Patsy..Wait a sec. I’m here too lol

AdLib : javaz, decades ago, CA and L.A. were very corrupt. Ever see Chinatown? Sounds like AZ today.

javaz : I’ve been following Sheriff Joe for years and well, it even scares me to write about him here, because he and the AG of Maricopa County have long tentacles.

PatsyT : Kh yes you are one of cool ones for sure..

choicelady : javaz – I hear you. I grew up in a mob-dominated town, and it was scary, not different at all from Bull Conner and now this. Any place a handful of people run the society for themselves and by themselves, reform and even just easing corruption is not only hard but dangerous!

Khirad : No Patsy. Maybe that’s ’cause I’m so cool.

kesmarn : Thanks for the absolution, c’lady!

bitohistory : j’vaz can write it . She has many links and stories

javaz : This truly is like living in Alabama in the 50’s and yet Sheriff Joe literally gets away with murder, and I mean literally. He’s under a grand jury investigation now by the FEDS, but only one person has the nerve to testify against him, and that person even fears for their life, and I am serious about this. The Feds have offered the woman protection for turning. It’s unreal.

PatsyT : Kh I thought you ere CA

choicelady : Oh kes – I KNOW that! You can’t go to jail for what you’re thinking about righteous come-around! The difference between you and him is that you never WOULD do harm. He would and did. Makes you a vastly better person! So you’re allowed a little ‘poetic license’!

Khirad : We Arizonans should write one. There’s enough of us here!

kesmarn : That’s a great idea, AdLib!

AdLib : bito, will do! We need a comprehensive article on The Planet about AZ.

choicelady : javaz – I did read about that. Now that the sheriff knows she’s really one of “them” he probably wants nothing better than to whomp her with his nightstick. AZ is so scary! I have family and friends there. Damn.

kesmarn : c’lady! Just realized how unprofessional that sounded.Just kidding, folks. I treat my patients well….even the ones like Ronnie!

bitohistory : AdLib try that site “Blog for AZ”

Khirad : Yes, she is.

javaz : Ronstadt is a Tucson native.

javaz : Linda Ronstadt led a march in January, but Sheriff Joe blasted her music louder and his deputies charged the group.

choicelady : kes – wish you HAD been his nurse. Taste of his own medicine and all.

PatsyT : Javaz I have seen some of your posts being that you are next door and all I pay Attention

AdLib : I’ve seen some but I have missed some, clearly. I’m really upset about this.

choicelady : We are cutting off all legal immigrants including the people who just got here from relocation camps following VIETNAM. They helped us in that war. We’re screwing them over now. One Cambodian woman noted that at age 76, if the Guv cuts her income out, “All you leave me is to die.” And I have NO idea what those Republicans think about all this. They seem simply to pay NO attention. At ALL.

javaz : God, them cameras, Khirad, that’s another thing

javaz : It is close to a fascist state, Adlib, I guess you’ve missed all my posts about it in the OT/TO section.

Khirad : cameras, that is.

AdLib : Well, we need a protest in AZ to open some eyes nationally about what’s going on!

Khirad : Way too reaching on the police. Is this the same state where people were in a furor over traffic stop lights?

kesmarn : c’lady, if I’d been Ronnie’s home care nurse he would have gotten ketchup t.i.d. (3Xday) at every meal!

javaz : God, what comes around goes around, and we in AZ are going back to the 50’s.

bitohistory : Ad Lib, Pictuee all of the country with the AZ leg. That is what the GOOPERs want!

AdLib : javaz, AZ sounds like a fascist state. Corporate control and decimation of rights for the people.

kesmarn : b’ito, thank God they’ve got decent docs there! I suppose the Sheriff Joe types would just hand people a pint o’ whiskey and a bullet to bite on and send ’em off to the desert. Compassion!

PatsyT : Some schools have a rep the kids all seem to know

choicelady : kes – I remember the Ronnie veggie excuse. Petty cheapo bastard.

Khirad : Yes bito, they do, so I hear. All the banners near campus tell me all the innovations they’ve done!

javaz : Oh, and here’s another one, the governor just signed a bill that allows the police to stop anyone for no cause on the grounds that the cop might think is illegal. Think about how reaching that is, in that you get a macho cop that has the right to stop a person because he thinks he’s gay or whatever, and they can demand YOUR PAPERS, and if you cannot give the proper papers, they can arrest you!

bitohistory : U of A has a good Med school. (it’s all about my problems LOL)

AdLib : Seriously, what is the plan of these Repubs? Like the banks with the economic crash, squeeze all you can out and pocket what you can before it all collapses?

PatsyT : ASU

kesmarn : j’avaz, talk about feeling trapped!

Khirad : UofA or ASU? UofA isn’t really that bad.

javaz : How can we move? Who would buy our houses? The state is losing so many people and houses are selling where we live, but the owners are taking huge losses. We can’t afford to move.

PatsyT : My Daughter & her friends think U of A is a joke school

bitohistory : No, Below the Gila it isn’t as RED.

AdLib : escrib – Heh, the UN? No “feriners” allowed in a Repblican state!

kesmarn : c’lady, that’s what Ronnie Raygun said!

escribacat : Adlib, The UN will come in and help with failed states.

choicelady : kes- I remember. Ketchup makes a veggie – if you drink about a pint of it…

bitohistory : Most grads leave Uof A now , AdLib. Leave the state for a job.

javaz : AdLib, you would not believe it, you really wouldn’t, plus we have Sheriff Joe and God help us.

AdLib : CL – So what is the plan after a state collapses? No schools, safety net…what do the Repubs do then? Repeal anti-slavery laws?

Khirad : Me and Bito are in the People’s Republic del Tucson. I feel okay. Can’t speak for Bito.

choicelady : bito – how could I have forgotten? And maybe chopped onion ya think?

kesmarn : Ketchup is a vegetable, b’ito. That makes it balanced.

javaz : Oh, and the latest one is they are going to stop young payment for young women to donate their eggs for IVF, yet they still pay men for sperm donations.

choicelady : Patsy – you are indeed correct! Friends inside the legislature, staffers, tell us that if we heard what they hear from the Reeps about letting the state die, who cares, WE would die. But we can see it – AZ is the gold standard for Grover Norquist’s wet dream, and CA is on its way.

Khirad : Blog for AZ is good. I have one or two, I think. We may be getting provencial here, but it is a signal of what could happen to you! A warning not to let Repubs in control!

bitohistory : Did I forget? Lots of ketchup!

AdLib : Sounds to me like AZ is going to be losing a lot of college grads to other states. Why stay there? WHy consider raising a family there?

kesmarn : Do you Arizona libs feel safe there? Seriously. I worry.

escribacat : Arizona sounds scary!!!

PatsyT : CL the CA state minority would like to make Ca like AZ

Khirad : Approval ratings for Repubs? – But, it’s the Dems fault!

choicelady : bito – yes, that’s what my mother would have done. Week old bread, dog food, eggs, milk. Yum.

bitohistory : I will put up a couple of links later. BLOG FOR AZ is one

Khirad : javaz, that was a succinct list of what ails Arizona. I applaud you for condensing it!

AdLib : javaz – AZ is heading back into the 19th century! And the public supports all of this? WHat are the approval ratings like for the Repubs there?

choicelady : javaz – beyond words, my dear friend. Beyond words. I can’t imagine it. Even CA is not that mean. I don’t know what to say.

bitohistory : C’Lady week old heals work. Just like Micky-d’s

AdLib : Khirad – it’s up to the group to decide but I think it should be a physical protest that’s clever and visual, alert the media et al, video tape it and put it on YouTube.

javaz : Yep, where do we start to explain Adlib – except for saying that the Republican Governor has signed 4 pieces of legislation from the Republican controlled legislature that lowers corporate taxes by 26%, and eliminates their property taxes, while we lose in education, hospice care, closing of rest areas, state parks, mental hospitals, juvenile detention centers, libraries, police, fire fighters – we are in crisis – and what can we do about it? Oh, we can all pack heat concealed now and shoot off fireworks and wait 6 months for divorce and place the 10 commandments on our captitol.

choicelady : bito – don’t you need bread crumbs as binder with the dog food and eggs? Barky Burgers.

AdLib : Khirad – loved the link – very funny and true!

kesmarn : c’lady, then you have your doggy designer clothes and hair ribbons, too! Not to mention doggy spas. Twilight Zone…

choicelady : javaz – this is horrid beyond belief. I hate to say it, but any state that repeatedly re-elects McC and Kyl has so lost touch with basics that I guess I’m not surprised. The John Wayne mentality – rugged individualism. It’s just awful to read!

Khirad : And oh, yeah is this protest fo’real or YouTube? Did we decide that?

kesmarn : b’ito, they are heartless SOBs.

Khirad : This is Arizona’s problem: «link»

AdLib : Khirad – We’re taking care of the organizational things first, a name, a mission statement, a clear and targeted agenda. Then, we just go ahead and plan our first protest!

choicelady : kes – my brother used to eat them. They ARE nutritious. Do you know how warped our society is? There is an entire SEC industrial designation of “pet snacks”. PET SNACKS???? OK – I do buy them, but we can’t even FEED people, yet pets have SNACKS????

bitohistory : k’es medicaid is next in AZ.

PatsyT : they drive around and around and so on and so on

PatsyT : You know we see lots of Zonnies (my brother gave them that name) here in So Cal near the beach

choicelady : The idea that you generate jobs by cutting wages and taxes for the rich is SO OLD I can’t believe they put it out with a straight face. “Rising tides lift all boats?” Tides lift from BELOW, not from above. NO recovery ever started or succeeded from the top. Over the past 8 years of massive tax cuts – not ONE new job was generated. Not one. So put that in your hosepipe and SUCK on it, you slimy corporate liars!

bitohistory : Dog food, eggs and milk. soak. make in to patties. BURGERS!!

kesmarn : b’ito, I mentioned that hospice thing here last week and people were stunned and appalled.

Khirad : Where do we start, AdLib?

javaz : We’re having a meltdown here in AZ, and how do we stop it?

AdLib : What is going on in AZ? Why are they so regressive?

Khirad : Yes on hospice cuts. Arizona is willing to sell gov’t buildings and gut the state so be it.

bitohistory : k’es, thats right about Hospice.

kesmarn : I’m gonna buy me some MilkBones, and I don’t even have a dog. But in my part of the country, a Milk Bone is a tasty dinner for the family!

AdLib : Hey…Walmart would be a great target for a protest against corporations. We could come up with something funny for that. They would be able to throw us off the property though since they’re set back from city streets but as long as we got the video!

javaz : Arizona is the 21st century 1950’s Alabama and I do not know how to stop it from happening,

choicelady : ADLib – thank you, thank you, but that was the BEST FUN I ever had! The union guys were just great, and they trusted my judgement and stood their ground, and Henry caved! Whee!

Khirad : That’s too much of a drop, in the AZ legislation. I understand where they’re coming from, and I remember this being discussed for a while, but it’s just ageist – though I know the argument for it. A minimum wage is that – minimum wage.

kesmarn : j’avaz, didn’t you also note that AZ has cut funding for hospice care for people on Medicaid, also?

PatsyT : Milk Bones YES Choice I am proud of you !!!

escribacat : Ditto CL you ROCK!

AdLib : CL – YOU ROCK!!!

bitohistory : Saw that j’avaz. BS, a-holes (sorry)

choicelady : javaz – it’s my life. I taught “corporate power” for union people at Cornell U’s labor program for 15 years. I watched all that fall apart under us all. I did save ONE plant – the Milkbone dog biscuit plant! I led the union folks in a worker ownership offer against KKR/Nabisco, and the corporation backed down!!! It’s still operating 20 years later. I beat the S*** out of Henry Kravitz! (Not that he knows it.)

AdLib : My 6 year old daughter already knows that Walmart is bad because they ruin people’s stores.

javaz : Yep, there is legislation in the works that lowers minimum wage for 7.46/hr down to 5.44/hr for 22 years old and younger.

kesmarn : Yes,AdLib, and the one thing we do know is that rust belt workers are nothing if not motivated!

PatsyT : Kh that is the message and they are not getting it !

Khirad : Yay @ Wal-Mart.

bitohistory : Obama has gone to the world trade court for the fist time in many years. And won!!

AdLib : kes – good point. I would think though that retraining for specific manufacturing jobs in the green sector could be funded which would be a boost in many directions. They may not be at the top of the food chain but they would have solid jobs from which they could advance.

kesmarn : j’avaz! WHAT?

Khirad : How can teabaggers not understand keeping jobs American? I think they would say they do, but don’t understand that’s not in their benefator’s interests. It’s just maddening. American Jobs. How hard of a message is that?

javaz : B’ito, what do you think about the legislation in AZ that will lower the minimum wage for people 22 years old and younger down to 5.44 per hour? That’s not right.

kesmarn : b’ito, yaaaaay! Wal-Mart sucks!

bitohistory : Wal-Mart lost last quarter. First time!

AdLib : CL – What we need is a tax system than penalizes companies who close factories in the U.S. and benefits those that stay. And hammers and corporation that bases itself offshore.

PatsyT : Youngstown? that is sad I remember it as thriving

choicelady : AdLib – I think Obama wants to revitalize conventional industries, too. We need iron, steel, aluminum, etc. along with windmills etc. We need durable consumer goods back – washers, dryers, refrigerators. This is the stuff we cannot keep losing. Now agriculture is threatened – and if we become a food IMPORTER we are cooked.

kesmarn : AdLib, problem is a lot of green tech manufacturing requires a pretty well educated work force. We have some of that, but the schools are in such horrible shape…not sure if we could supply the workers they need.

javaz : Choicelady, is that from Forbes?

PatsyT : Wow I could tell you stories of the east side of Cleveland

choicelady : Youngstown, Lackawanna, Homestead, Gary (they use Gary to measure the rate of decay of urban settings if people disappeared from earth), Detroit, Flint. Pawtucket, Central Falls, Woonsocket. Southern mill towns. Midwestern capital goods cities. New England textiles. All shot to hell. And now Toyota will close its plant – that got stimulus money – so CA is next. It will kill a huge part of the Bay Area, and we will follow suit. STOP PLANT CLOSINGS!

AdLib : kes – what needs to happen is to have Obama finance companies to manufacture green technologies in the rust belt, there is a huge amount of manpower familiar with manufacturing, it would be a win all the way around.

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib. The nation’s best kept dirty little secret. A wretched third world environment hidden in plain sight.

javaz : AdLib, I am lucky to be here doing this right now, so am not going to do that yet, but will do it later.

escribacat : Adlib, Kes…very true. I’ve heard it’s really bad and I’ve seen these houses being given away but haven’t really absorbed how bad it really is and how long it’s been getting worse

bitohistory : CREDO has an alert on Cheney. any one get it?

AdLib : kes – it really is an untold story in the sense that most Americans have no awareness that it’s happening.

javaz : Patsy, I cannot believe that the MSM puts on Liz Cheney or McCain’s daughter, like them kids know anything about politics.

Khirad : That theme music leading Cheney in was epic.

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib, miles of vacant, abandoned homes. Many street people. Hunger. Mental illness. Despair.

AdLib : javaz – right click the link and select “copy link location” then you can paste it in your browser.

AdLib : kes – Michael Moore revisited Flint, Michigan in Capitalism a Love Story…it’s hard to believe that its WORSE than in Roger and Me.

PatsyT : I can’t believe they put Cheney on … anywhere ..

Khirad : Link worked for me. Just did it.

escribacat : Okay I will post in a comment

javaz : Damn, e’cat, your links aren’t working here, but you can do it once this is done.

AdLib : Thanks for the link, escrib! Nothing I can do though, Boxer and Feinstein are already on board.

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib, Flint, Detroit, Toledo all in truly abysmal shape. You can hardly believe it, till you see it.

escribacat : okay fine!

PatsyT : Cleveland does benefit greatly from Cleveland Clinic and the amazing cultural center that was put there decades ago

escribacat : «link»

escribacat : Sorry, don’t know how that link thing happened. Meant to post this:

choicelady : bito – some parts of the country today are almost that bad. It’s very uneven. We have a quadrupled homeless population AND an increase in upscale restaurants. We see such pockets of real misery – AND more Beamers. Very uneven within communities much less across different regions. In the 30s Blacks said they did not know there WAS a Depression. Who could tell the difference?

javaz : Cheney is an ass, and people dislike him, and we’ve all got to ignore all the crap from the MSM and Internet. Obama still offers HOPE and change, and I truly believe that Americans for the most part see that Obama is trying to work with the GOP. The MSM and the GOP underestimate the intelligence of Americans.

AdLib : bito, that was a harsh life back then, indeed. In the rust belt though, it’s getting pretty bad.

escribacat : «link»

kesmarn : I’ve seen some of that, Patsy. (Took a friend to Cleveland Clinic.) Not changes for the better, either, huh?

PatsyT : Kes I grew up in Cleveland and just went back for a visit … wow big changes

escribacat : Bito — yep. Most of us don’t have a clue what it’s like to go hungry or really suffer for the basic necessities.

Khirad : Yes, Obama is still personally popular, and he can still use that to his advantage.

bitohistory : Pull a wagon 10 miles for chairty food, like my grandmother, then tell me how bad it is

AdLib : Kes – This is what many don’t see. They’re not aware of how bad it is in some parts of this country, such as yours.

javaz : Obama is very popular, forget the polls. People like him, they truly like him, because face it, the man is cool. The polls on whatever show different when it comes to where the country’s going, but Obama is very popular and Americans do like him. Cheney predicted that Obama would be a one-term prez, but Cheney is still the most unpopular VP, and hell, even GW is ranking higher now.

kesmarn : Yes Patsy and e’cat. Minorities communities especially are in truly dire straits here.

choicelady : kes – indeed. I lived there for 16 years, and I know the whole NE quarter. I love the people, documented a lot of the industry at one point, and did oral histories, community revitalization – and I am seeing the FIRST hope in Obama’s emphasis on re-industrializa tion. This nation threw all those good people away. Time to bring ’em back. Or at least their kids. BTW – stop Whirlpool from going to Mexico. Damn their eyes.

Khirad : Ah, but manufacturing won’t come back ’cause of those “evil unions” and Gubmint takeovers.

AdLib : CL, you are a gem, thanks for the kind words for all here. I think The Planet has enormous value as a citizen’s think tank, with all the amazing minds and perspectives here, but it’s important to take the next step into activism, to putting the great ideas into action. I’m very excited about our moving closer to that realization.

kesmarn : c’lady, thanks for your kind words. It’s nice to feel that your sorta our “ambassador” out there.

PatsyT : Kes that is where Manufacturing need to make a come back

escribacat : Kes, that is true. You can buy a house for $12K in some places

Khirad : Housing foreclosures are still horrible in AZ, too.

kesmarn : Not to be the party-pooper, but i have to say things are pretty bad in the rust belt. Actually really bad, to be honest.

Khirad : No, e’cat, but that’s what I’m talking about.

choicelady : Adlib and all – this blog is hugely important. I have changed messages because of YOU. I have refined ideas because of YOU. I send my folks out to do grassroots advocacy, and I often re-write talking points because of all of YOU. Do NOT underestimate how important you all are, to me and to the world.

escribacat : Kh, have you read Dreams of My Father?

javaz : AdLib, Obama is not nor has he ever been the problem, imo.

AdLib : Patsy – We’re on the same wavelength!

javaz : Choice lady, that’s another thing about the MSM in that they only report the bad, they never report the good, but that’s changing, too.

AdLib : If Obama accepts the path of reconciliation, he can get HCR, a Jobs Bill, Financial Reforms and an Energy Bill done. THEN he can pivot to take on the GOP to put them in the position of fighting for corporations while Obama fights for what the majority of Americans want.

Khirad : One of the criticisms I’m buying against Obama, is that I would like to see him “feel our pain” in his own way. Explain it like a grown up to us, but throw in a few more personal stories. Maybe I’m falling for a meme, I know he’s talked about his own childhood, and Michelle’s hers, but they need to do more ‘connecting’ IMHO.

kesmarn : Bill Moyers had a long, sober condemnation of the SCOTUS decision on his show tonight. Well spoken.

PatsyT : Smart, Creative and maybe Funny action speak even louder then words

choicelady : javaz – that’ part of my “what have you lost?” query. I know things are hard – I have friends long time unemployed. But they are getting by thanks to Obama’s extension of unemployment, COBRA, etc. We need to celebrate what is GOOD. I heard unemployement FELL last month. Wow! Nothing has been made of it, but it’s apparently now UNDER 10% when it was over that last year.

bitohistory : DITTO! Ad Lib. Here’s to C’lady!!

javaz : People are waking up, and even on the right, they are realizing that we must we work together to fight corporate influence. And when you get right down to it, Americans have never fallen for the Liberals vs Christmas thing. We know we have our differences, but more and more people are waking up and realizing we have to fight for our country.

kesmarn : Yes, c’lady, McConnell pronounced it a “victory for free speech.”

Khirad : Indeed, perspective.

AdLib : CL – So pleased at all you’re doing to contribute to getting things done. No offense to anyone but actions speak louder than blogs.

escribacat : javaz…I agree. We don’t know how lucky we are compared to so many people in the world.

choicelady : Where are the MSM in telling everyone that the Reeps support more money from corporations inside Congress and the White House????? That they say corporations are important parts of democracy? That they defend SCOTUS on this ruling!!!

javaz : I do not believe that things are as dire, when it comes to us as Americans, that the media likes to portray.

PatsyT : Choice you will be consulted I imagine…

javaz : Of course the GOP says that, and even their sheep are angry at them for that.

escribacat : Monty Pithon skit

choicelady : khirad and Patsy – but make sure the Ministry’s target is clearly the idiots in Congress. Otherwise the MSM will think you’re mocking Obama or Pelosi. They can’t be left to sort it out. They DO have to have a house drop on them!

escribacat : Kh, I’ve seen that skit!

bitohistory : j’avaz . and the GOP said they will fight any bill dealing with SCOTUS

AdLib : javaz – Absolutely. Corporations can’t combat our numbers with money. If we move forward with 80% behind us and everyone else trying to change things, we will eventually succeed.

PatsyT : Silly walks Yes !

Khirad : A Ministry of Silly Walks marching to show what a joke we think the current situation is?

AdLib : Patsy, that’s exactly where we’re going! DOn’t know that we’ll have it together by the 24th but we’ll get there!

choicelady : There are so many groups involved in health care – MoveOn, the unions, consumer groups, AARP, and faith groups. I work with Faithful Reform in Health Care that is just super. Their site is www.faithfulrefo rm.org. The Vision Statement is wonderful (cough – I helped to write it) and easy to use for even non-religious people. Very useful as “another language” for advocacy.

javaz : When the MSM posts a poll that 80% of Americans are against the SCOTUS decision about corporations and the MSM states that it UNITES both the left and the right, you have to know that a message is finally getting through.

kesmarn : AdLib, yes, sounds like a good action to unite our strength/numbers with. Ungrammatical, but you know what I mean.

PatsyT : How about a virtual march or a video march with silly props and such

bitohistory : Bhudda be praised! He would get a chuckle from that

AdLib : I’ll post a link an stick it to the top of our Home Page when they have their site up. We should “take action” to be apart of this.

kesmarn : Peace be upon him

choicelady : Khirad – you are totally right. That was disgusting. And kes – that Buddhist restraint would be SO welcome!

escribacat : Adlib…That is going to be interesting ?-? I love the idea.

Khirad : Buddha be praised!

PatsyT : Kh yes he can’t claim Jesus is going to save him Praise Budda

AdLib : From MoveOn.org’s website: “Join the Virtual March As Washington stalls on health care, real people are hurting. To remind Congress voters want them to get the job done on reform, we’re holding our biggest day of health care action ever on February 24th. Together, we’ll flood Congress with a million messages for real reform.”

Khirad : kesmarn – exactly!

kesmarn : The GOP oughta indulge in a little Buddhist restraint!

choicelady : escat – oh sure, but how? And will his wife take him back? I don’t see how she can. It’s too gross by half. Forgiveness is wonderful, but I’d never trust that sucker again. Giuliani was the same – knew a guy via email who picked up Presidential bodyguard work for Giuliani – to guard his GIRLFRIEND when he was in LA. So much for “a noun, a verb, 9/11 – and all the babes he can get.”

Khirad : I’m just sayin’ after that crap about Christianity being the only way said… otherwise, could not care less.

javaz : I know, we’re talking health care, and sorry for the OT, but I have zero faith in our elected reps, from either side of the aisle. I am so tired of the Dem vs Rep or Conservative vs Lib/Progressive – I’m tired of the fighting and that’s what we are trying to do, is UNITE to fight the crap from DC.

AdLib : Tiger Woods admits he’s unfaithful.

kesmarn : c’lady, those two ARE recurrent nightmares!

bitohistory : Lincoln, fdr, jfk, lbj got most of their chores done after the first year

AdLib : What’s the difference between Tiger Woods and the GOP?

PatsyT : Kh yes the Buddhism stuff was the redeeming value there … Really so much time on him?

Khirad : Rehabilitated in time for Match Play?

Khirad : Something about Buddhism was the only thing interesting. Otherwise, I only caught it by accident.

escribacat : Tiger will be rehabilitated.

choicelady : kes – enough! We will have recurrent nightmares!

PatsyT : That Tiger crap was just that . . . CRAP

Khirad : LOL javaz. By the way, I always knew JM was a douche.

choicelady : javaz – I think your husband actually hit on something no one is discussing. It’s the hidden side of the scandal. Though they said that stock trading fell to its lowest point during Woods’ press conference and then zapped to its highest point immediately after, so people WERE “deeply concerned” weren’t they?

PatsyT : poke

escribacat : Patsy LOL

AdLib : I watch so little MSM, I missed the Tiger Woods BS. Who cares? Now, as for this narrative of Obama’s comeback, that’s what I like to see.

PatsyT : I do not want to pock my finger into McConnell… just saying..

kesmarn : McConnell and Graham. Soulmates hiking the Appallachian trail together.

Khirad : Ewwwww. AdLib. Scrubbing. that. image. from. my. brain.

bitohistory : the hippo- critter are flocking about now! lol

AdLib : I wonder if McConnell and Lindsey Graham ever compare tan lines?

javaz : Well, thank God the MSM disrupted regular programming today so that we all could watch Tiger Woods apologize for banging more women than most men could ever dream of, and speaking of that – my husband asked if Tiger’s wood was like John Mayer’s wood in being a white supremacist (?) and forgive me if that offends anyone, but it makes me laugh my ass off!

choicelady : bito – LOVED that. Loved Rachel’s “hypocrite” segment that was the same. As she pointed out you can be for something or against that same thing, but you cannot be both. Did a very good job with that!

kesmarn : e’cat, i always said McConnell looked like a grown up Cabbage Patch Doll. Not one of the cute ones either.

escribacat : I know the dough boy is cute…but McConnell seems so…squishy.

AdLib : bito – Yes, saw that article, that is a potent piece. Obama has gotten good press on the stim and this helps.

choicelady : escat – that’s an insult to the Dough Boy! DB is CUTE. McConnell is wicked ugly and scary to boot.

kesmarn : b’ito, yes! What’s that stomping sound? A hippo-critter approaching!

Khirad : What are you guys talking about? Even before Stewart said it, I swore McC was half terrapin.

choicelady : Escat – Noooooo! Jabba is still worse.

PatsyT : No prob Kh I would like a better image of coyote I see enough of them in our neighborhood what is your coyote like ?

kesmarn : AdLib, wouldn’t an active volcano be better?

bitohistory : Did every one catch the TP article about the 110 goppers bitching about the stim and braggin about the jobs at haome?

escribacat : McConnell always reminds me of the Pillsbury Dough Boy.

Khirad : Good ‘Rocky’ point, AdLib. They need a narrative, that’s all.

AdLib : Kes – Can we throw him in a well?

escribacat : Adlib–you are right!

choicelady : Naked overweight guys? Kinda doesn’t matter who. But if you ever saw Borgnine in “Marty” you’d know he DOES (or did) have a certain sex appeal that McC. just does NOT have. He looks wasted 24/7

kesmarn : Well, AdLib, we could throw in Rush Limbaugh…

escribacat : They don’t report the news, they just come up with “compelling narrations”

AdLib : The story for the MSM is now “Rocky”. Obama making a comeback, they like that.

escribacat : MSM is severely letting us down, IMHO

javaz : I do believe that the GOP is finally being exposed by the MSM for who they are, AdLib, but the MSM is a joke, so they need to cause drama.

escribacat : Kes…I’d rather see Jabba the Hut in the buff than Mitch McConnell

kesmarn : Patsy, maybe it’s not too late…

AdLib : Kes – Is that really the choice we have to make?

kesmarn : I’d rather see Ernest Borgnine in the buff than Mitch McConnell.

choicelady : AdLib – naked and McConnell? Oh, eeeuuuw!

PatsyT : Kes LOL you could have you own mega church by now

AdLib : Health Care Reform, folks. COvering 30 million Americans and Norse Gods (Zeus is on his own).

Khirad : SORRY Patsy!!! Gives a bad name to the Amerindian myth, that one.

Khirad : Me too on Scandinavian mythology, Bito. What were we talking about anyway! I can do runes.

escribacat : Kes…lol

PatsyT : Ohhh Kh you said coyote like that dredded one

AdLib : CL – The GOP has openly exposed themselves as having no principles, all they have is a lust for power. The people supporting them are mindless lemmings, if they’re really believed in tax cuts, they would have applauded the Stimulus. If they really want to reduce the deficit, they would be supporting the PO. They are nakedly lusting for power…not a mental image I want to have in mind when thinking of Mitch McConnell.

choicelady : As for alphabets – I’ve always wanted to be able to read runes. Anyone know how?

kesmarn : When I was a little kid, I made up my own religion. Wish I’d stuck with it, because I’d be tax exempt by now.

javaz : Oh, I love this site, too, ChoiceLady, even though I mess up a lot on it, but even my husband who has never blogged, loves it, too.

escribacat : Kh…I had a feelin’ you were kiddin’

choicelady : Kh – I loved the tales of Loki when I was a kid. Appealed to the chaotic side of my child self. Great NAME, Loki!

Khirad : I’m kidding on the alphabet, just that it’s easy to write English in other alphabets and cheat on a code. Loki is a trickster god, like Coyote, etc.

choicelady : LOve the “Planetarian” AdLib! What an evocative concept!

bitohistory : Khirad those aren’t jokes. Scandies are that way.

choicelady : Puritans were cool on many fronts. Even had a sense of humor. The Victorians made them grim to mirror themselves. We’ve been robbed of our roots. Calvin though – yeah, pretty grim.

PatsyT : Odin I should know that being of Swedish background

escribacat : And what other alphabet do we have to learn?

javaz : Has anyone read Ancient Evenings by Norman Mailer? It’s the only book by him that I’ve ever read, and it was all in there about Odin and the gods. What a hell of a book, yet it was so fascinating and perverse that I couldn’t put it down and then my husband read it and then we passed it along to friends.

escribacat : Kh…Who is Loki?

Khirad : I’m more into Loki, bito.

choicelady : AdLib – you’re right about that! When you’re born, your warranty immediately expires in the compassion department!

bitohistory : Odin, the big guy of the Wikings

Khirad : I agree on secret code. Anyone wanna learn another alphabet?

AdLib : Planetarian Secret Code: Swordfish

kesmarn : c’lady, I’m not just a cafeteria Catholic; I’m a walking cafeteria.

choicelady : bito- I agree. And I agree with the conservatives who scream it’s a slippery slope to “government run health care”!!! Problem is – I think that is GOOD.

escribacat : We planetarians need a secret code.

Khirad : Oh lawdy, religious humor! All we need now is a Keillor Lutheran joke.

kesmarn : j’avaz, i thought Calvinists were all Puritanical and stuff!

AdLib : I’m a Planetarian.

PatsyT : Help me Bito, Odin ?

AdLib : Just like the anti-abortion crowd are nowhere to be found on insuring the children that are born.

choicelady : kesmarn – my kinda Christian! roll your own!

javaz : I’d rather be a Presbyterian, because I am in reality a Calvinist.

bitohistory : I will sing praises to Odin if this thing gets through. I just want a foot in the door. progress is progreesive.

choicelady : Oh lordy – the defense of marriage people are nowhere to be seen on divorce over health care! They are total hypocrites (I know that comes as a shock…)

kesmarn : Good point, Khirad. They’re all about marriage/family until the $$$ factors in.

escribacat : CL, I saw a program about the Swiss system. It sounded successful.

Khirad : Cathodist, LOL.

kesmarn : c’lady! WHY wasn’t I a Methodist? Ah well, I’m called a Cathodist now, ’cause I go to both services.

AdLib : CL – I only count birthdays in Leap Years so I’m way younger!

choicelady : AdLib – I agree about single payer, and I think that will come. It’s the only sensible solution. This plan, BTW, is being built almost exactly like that of Switzerland and Germany that both use private but totally regulated insurance carriers. It’s inevitable. But you can see the fear in people! They have drunk the Kool Aid and think they’re free.

javaz : I know it, e’cat and kes, and we are a rich nation, yet this is what we make people do so that they can survive.

Khirad : I wonder where the defense of marriage people are on this. Duh. Stupid question.

Khirad : Indeed AdLib, they’re arguing with their own “principles” now.

kesmarn : j’avaz, you’re right.It is sad. Choice: divorce or lose everything. Nice, huh?

escribacat : javaz….I’ve heard of couples divorcing for that reason

AdLib : Khirad – The Repubs have whined about the taxcuts that 95% of Americans got under the Stimulus Bill, they have totally lost it.

choicelady : kes – I had a shock when I realized that next month I will be certifiably old. But I look much younger. I did not get baptized until I was 12 (my own choice to be a Methodist) and inadvertantly the certificate says I was BORN that year, so I can knock 12 years off my age! I feel much younger anyway, so what the heck? Though I won’t be using that baptismal certificate come Social Security time…

PatsyT : Many of US knew about the rabid S but not the rest of the country

escribacat : Adlib — I agree.

Khirad : Rabid squirrels – suppressive fire! (obscure Colbert reference)

javaz : Kesmarn, did you read that in AARP, too? And sadly, their advice if a spouse needs long term care? If a spouse gets sick and needs long term care, for protection of assets, they recommend divorce. How sad is that?

AdLib : javaz – This is why a national graduated tax and Single Payer would be much better, then its paid for as you go, without penalties or mandates.

PatsyT : Rabid Squirrels . . perfect

escribacat : CL — do you think Obama didn’t realize they were rabid squirrels? I mean, the rest of us knew that from the beginning.

kesmarn : b’ito,one of the many blessings of aging! Not caring!

choicelady : Obama has actually done well on this, though not with the PR. By leaving it to Congress they had the buy in and got a dog in the fight. They would have dumped HIS plan as they did Clinton’s, but now they have their dander up. BTW – Republicans HAVE elements they wanted in various insurance and tort reforms. It’s all they asked for, and they got it. the Dems saw what rabid squirrels they were, and now they’re ready to move for their own plan.

Khirad : It’s gotta kill them to oppose things that, by definition, reduce the budget. A whole lot of math debates…

javaz : I understand the reasons why everyone must buy insurance for a public option to work, but there’s something about that mandate that even bothers me – I did not like the penalties, nor did I like them placing that in the hands of the IRS. If you’ve ever had to deal with the IRS, you’d understand my trepidation on that one.

bitohistory : k’es, by now he doesn’t care

AdLib : CL – That sounds fantastic. Though again, I wonder if you’re aware if they plan to offer a PO to all Americans or that narrow minority of 1%-5% of Americans?

escribacat : CL — I am now starting to feel hopeful again!

choicelady : AdLib – details would be worked out administratively as they were with COBRA and SCHIP to name a few. But if the point is “budget savings” you betcha (to quote someone) the rates would be low, the overhead low, the quality high. It’s the only way it would work. And it would provide REAL competition to private corporations. Theoretically you could not drop what you have to take it, but you could be thrown out for non-payment! THEN you could take it up!

bitohistory : Mandatory is a must!

escribacat : Patsy LOL LOL LOL.

kesmarn : b’ito, Ernie B is probably a little imbalanced.

PatsyT : Love Love Love Sherrod Brown !! (3’s)

AdLib : Better late than never but I wish he had worked like this at the beginning, Obama would have retained a lot more popularity and political capital. But if it passes with a PO, he will get cheers from most Americans and so will the Dems.

bitohistory : Imperfect imbalance, for the artistic is 3

escribacat : Love Sherrod Brown

PatsyT : Adlib you brought up the name…

kesmarn : c’lady. I really had about given up. Sherrod Brown rocks!!

javaz : I wonder if they will still make it mandatory to buy insurance

escribacat : It seems to be working…I haven’t heard anything about death panels

escribacat : CL — perfect deception!!

choicelady : kes – I REALLY think they are doing this well, doing it right (as in correct, you understand!) I believe the “Summit” is a deflection – hey Reeps! Over here! Keep looking over HERE. (And you guys working – keep at it! I’ll distract them so they can’t holler death panels and stuff.)

AdLib : What kind of public option? Medicare or the one that only 5% of the country can use?

PatsyT : Yes … and…Its the russians trick with figure skating to they do things in three’s

kesmarn : j’avaz, what was his wife’s opinion of his longevity plan?

javaz : lmao! very good!

Khirad : Could use something detachable with it.

escribacat : Choice — that sounds incredibly promising…what ‘s your take..will this happen?

Khirad : A rigid, rigorous regimen there javaz.

AdLib : javaz, yes I heard that but the problem I have with his program is that I don’t want to have sex with Mrs. Borgnine.

escribacat : Is that three LOLs Patsy?

choicelady : javaz – that’s hilarious! Though it would be hard to have sex with my wife since I have a husband, but point taken…

kesmarn : c’lady, you have just restored my faith!!! Please….no more disappointments!

PatsyT : Javaz LOLOLOL !!!!!

javaz : masturbation 3 times per day and then sex with his wife 3 times per week – he’s into 3’s

AdLib : CL – The House is absolutely right, they shouldn’t sign off on The Senate Bill until the revisions from reconciliation are signed first.

choicelady : kesmarn – yes. I’ve been talking with Pelosi’s chief consultant and Sherrod Brown’s health staffer almost weekly, and it’s been pretty clear that our progressive voices have mattered. Faith community VERY cool – but every one of YOU has mattered, even to Blue Dogs. Don’t ever think it doesn’t. Worst problem? Lousy MSM and “progressive” reporting. Don’t believe anything you read. Not ANYTHING.

escribacat : Pray tell!

javaz : you do know Ernest Borgnine’s secret for living so long, right AdLib?

AdLib : Ah, all my old roles are flooding back to me!

escribacat : Adlib….McHale ‘s Navy

bitohistory : “your only as old as you feel” GAWD!

kesmarn : “Narty” is hilarious!

Khirad : Airwolf theme is on my youtube window now.

escribacat : Choice…that sounds pretty good to me!!!

AdLib : Marty!

javaz : Oh yeah – it’s been on raw story and alex jones prison planet, and that alex jones site is a trip, talking about psychedelic!

AdLib : For “Narty”.

PatsyT : He has an Oscar no ?

choicelady : Es’cat – they told us that the Senate bill will go through reconciliation, and that CAN include a public option not as a program but as budget savings. We did it with the kids health fund and COBRA. Then the House will pass it. House does not trust the Senate, so the Senate bill comes soon. For those who observe, this Lent is also the 40 days of health care fasting! They say YES by Easter! Or Passover. Whichever!

kesmarn : I always thought Ernie B was kinda cute!

escribacat : Adlib….

AdLib : You think that’s scary, I look in my mirror and see Ernest Borgnine

escribacat : J — O’reilly said that???

kesmarn : C’lady, did you see the reconciliation deal coming a while back?

PatsyT : I like my age and all of you should to !!

escribacat : Adlib lol

javaz : I so wish it would be Medicare for all, but well, regulation would be a beginning, and once again the GOP are on the wrong side of history and the GOP are so fractured that even O’Reilly came out and warned them not to criticize Obama, but to offer solutions. O’Reilly’s dreaming, because the GOP have no solutions, except for saying NO.

AdLib : CL – Hope that time machines are included in the HCR bill.

escribacat : Kes….me2!!! It’s horrifying!

Khirad : Get a few things done under reconciliation, claim partial victory. It’s not ideal, but they need to be able to show something.

kesmarn : Why do I look in the mirror and see my mother, c’lady?

escribacat : I thought I would be 17 forever.

choicelady : kesmarn – I know about the Big Age Surprise! I thought I’d get to 35 and hold. Did not work.

AdLib : CL – Nice to hear that this is being strategized for success.

escribacat : Choic–what are they saying?

escribacat : Kes?-?I know and you know it but they don’t know it!!!

Khirad : It ticks me off when GOOPers say the Dems haven’t done anything. 1 – they have. 2- you tried to stop them at every stage.

choicelady : AdLib – you are SO correct about that! I believe they have the will and the process in hand now. Good feedback from Congressional staffers with whom I talk.

escribacat : If they don’t pass health care after haggling over it for a year, they’re going to look pretty bad!!!

kesmarn : e’cat, the big surprise for the young’uns is that they too will be 50 one day!

bitohistory : Medicare for all, is what I heard has to be done for recon.-budget

PatsyT : Hi Choice !

escribacat : Adlib — I agree.

AdLib : Hi CL!

escribacat : Hello choicelady

AdLib : It’s going to be a bloodbath for Dems in November if they don’t pass this. They wouldn’t have an argument for being re-elected, “Vote for me and nothing will get done for 6 more years!”

choicelady : Good evening all- picking up the thread, I have info that yes, there will be a public option passed via reconciliation. A great step forward. Those 39% rate hikes did what we might not have been able to pull off!

javaz : No, I don’t think that they will go that far, but I do think there will be regulation. The politicians are finally getting it – people are pissed – and we are trying to organize – and we will organize because they have gone too far

Khirad : I know, e’cat, the meme got old to me even, but I hope he had another chess set ready to go. I think they got caught flatfooted, however.

PatsyT : I mean to much reporting on the anger and not telling the truth about it.

escribacat : Kes–I agree that’s still the best idea I’ve heard. Of course, younger people were pretty resentful about it.

kesmarn : AdLib, at the very least drop the age for Medicare.

PatsyT : So much misdirected anger out there and way too much reporting on the ANGER out there

escribacat : Adlib, I wish.

bitohistory : If the Dems can find some bulocks it may pass

escribacat : That’s kind of the “Obama mystique” Playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers.

AdLib : Do you think they will do the “Medicare For All” concept? That would be so smart and so cool!

escribacat : Khirad, I hope so too.

javaz : well, even the GOP understands that the voters are angry and not as stupid as they thought

AdLib : javaz, absolutely this was not what was planned. Obama had hoped to announce the bill at his SOTU address and they had no idea Brown would take away their 60th vote. But good for them for finally admitting the error of their ways and moving towards reconsiliation.

escribacat : I swiped it from someone over yonder

kesmarn : Howard Dean was saying that if Bush had wanted health care (haha), he would have done it by reconciliation and everyone would have the choice of loving it or leaving.

Khirad : I hope “The Tarantino” catches on. Someone compared Obama to a poker player, playing it slow, but holding all the cards. God, I hope they’re right.

escribacat : Today I saw part of his town hall…he was talking about how everyone told him the repubs would be all against it and it would hurt him in the polls and so on….he knew.

PatsyT : Ecat I am dizzy …

javaz : Really, e’cat, what an amazing thing! You cam prepared!

escribacat : Javaz, you could be right. I’m sure Obama et al thought ahead

AdLib : Nice pull escrib! This is far from unprecedented! If Bush could do it to destroy our economy by giving the wealthy the biggest tax cuts in history, we sure should use it to bring health care to all Americans.

javaz : I’m starting to believe it’s possible, AdLib, and in my conspiracy wacky mind, wonder if this was the plan all along.

escribacat : I don’t know, adlib. I’ve been one the most optimistic people but I’m just in wait and see mode nowl

AdLib : So, is this really going to happen? It’s the only way for the Dems to turn around public opinion.

javaz : the GOP is fighting at the CPAC, and I truly believe the msm makes the GOP CPAC news, like Tiger Woods, but truly the GOP are messed up and not held favorably in public opinion.

Khirad : Aha – zoom out – duh. No more scrolling.

escribacat : okay, that’s too hard to read. Never mind!!

kesmarn : e’cat, I’ve wondered if the Ins. Co. people have outsmarted themselves and tea-bagged themselves right into a corner. Now that they’ve lost 30,000,000 mandated customers, they’re panicking.

escribacat : Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982 Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983 Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 Balanced Budget Act of 1995 Balanced Budget Act of 1997 Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 Marriage Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2000 Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007

escribacat : Someone posted a list of other bills that passed via reconciliation. I saved it. It might be too long for here. I’ll try.

AdLib : bito – use the “zoom out function on your browser.

AdLib : Yep, the greed of Wellpoint/Anthem will hopefully be their undoing.

bitohistory : I need a 22″ screen to get in this conversation.

AdLib : Patsy – Exactly, the idea is likely to justify reconciliation by exposing the Repubs for having no plan to cover 30 million Americans or apply any prices controls.

escribacat : Why would the insurance companies do that right at that time?

kesmarn : The insurance company rate increases are getting attention. Good thing. A little preview of coming attractions for the little people if we don’t get something done!

escribacat : I truly don’t understand all the ups and downs of this process.

AdLib : I agree, there is momentum now! Maybe the Dems have figured out the the GOP already has cornered the “do nothing” market.

PatsyT : AdLib … thats it… why all the drama has it just been to reveal how despicable the other side is?

javaz : well, that’s great news, adlib, and the public option is what the majority of the public wants, but who knows

bitohistory : Good point j’avaz, there do seem to stories on increases.

escribacat : I repeat: yabba dabba do

AdLib : “President Obama will put forward comprehensive health care legislation intended to bridge differences between Senate and House Democrats ahead of a summit meeting with Republicans next week, senior administration officials and Congressional aides said Thursday. Democratic officials said the president’s proposal was being written so that it could be attached to a budget bill as a way of averting a Republican filibuster in the Senate. The procedure, known as budget reconciliation, would let Democrats advance the bill with a simple majority rather than a 60-vote supermajority.”

escribacat : Well… it was nothing!

Khirad : I’m ticked off with Cantwell. Hi all!

kesmarn : Arlen. Spector. That’s good. Phil Spector…no, he’d be on the music thread…nevermi nd

PatsyT : Proud of you ecat !

escribacat : (being from Colorado)

escribacat : I have to say I’m awfully chuffed about Bennett and Polis

escribacat : Holy moly. I hadn’t heard that.

PatsyT : Arlen Spector Signed !! I think they are are just going to keep marching on and I am still seeing that it will get there

AdLib : “Sen. Arlen Specter (D-Penn.) signed the public-option letter Friday afternoon, his spokeswoman, Kate Kelly, tells HuffPost.”

javaz : ah sheesh, who knows, but it’s promising that the msm is picking up and putting out stories about the increases in insurance and medicare

kesmarn : I’m afraid to get my hopes up one more time; I’ve been stood up so many times already.

escribacat : Yabba dabba doo

bitohistory : Clinton had 32 co singners on his HCR and it went in the dumpster.

AdLib : “Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) announced on Friday afternoon that he would work with other Democrats and the White House to pass a public option through reconciliation if that’s the legislative path the party chooses.”

escribacat : Kes…..yum

kesmarn : I brought chips. Do they go with Spam?

AdLib : OKAY, LET’S BEGIN! A FLURRY OF STORIES TODAY SAY THAT THE PUBLIC OPTION AND HCR VIA RECONCILIATION IS ON THE MOVE. HARRY REID SUPPORTS BRINGING BACK THE PO, 18 SENATORS HAVE SIGNED A LETTER SO FAR ASKING FOR THAT AND OBAMA IS PREPARING HIS OWN COMPROMISE BILL. IS HCR BACK AND WILL IT PASS? IF SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL LOOK LIKE?

javaz : yes they do, Patsy and I like it and am looking forward to the 3rd installment of Degraw’s book

PatsyT : I saw that Alternet has a new set up

javaz : hiya b’ito!

PatsyT : Ecat love it !

escribacat : Stole it from a poster over yonder.

escribacat : How’s this for a bumpersticker: 50 + Biden.

AdLib : Hey bito!

PatsyT : I have not been on the music thread yet Hi Bito !

bitohistory : Be back in a few. Hello all

javaz : who can remember?

AdLib : Hey, did anyone do “I Can See For Miles” yet?

AdLib : Just another minute to see if we have any stragglers…

javaz : higher than a kite from the subconscious psychedelic thread, but it’s all in my mind and can see for miles and miles – fine thank you, and how are you?

escribacat : I’m fine. Must go fetch more chocolate though. brb.

PatsyT : No leave it it looks dangerous … ooooo

AdLib : How is everyone doing tonight?

escribacat : Maybe that was me from last time.

AdLib : Maybe I’ll just remove it!

AdLib : Yes, I need to figure out how to reset that spam counter!

PatsyT : E’Cat I see it

escribacat : We are the spam. Hehe.

javaz : hiya patsy!

PatsyT : Hi e’cat Hi AdLib what is the spam do we needs eggs?

escribacat : I see a message up top: 11 spams blocked. Do you see it?

escribacat : Congratulations. It’s a good thing to not be spam.

javaz : thank you, but you have 2 of us to deal with, except I’ve never taken typing and my husband forgets that, but am pretty good at typing fast using two fingers!

AdLib : escrib – it happened to me just a moment ago! Cleared my cache, restarted my browser and I’m not spam anymore! Woo-hoo!

PatsyT : Hi Javaz !

escribacat : Hello. Let’s see if I turn into spam again tonight.

AdLib : Heh! Great to see you here, javaz!

javaz : Good evening – am trying this again with the help of drgaz in shutting down everything possible except this of course!

AdLib : Howdy Patsy!

PatsyT : Hi There

AdLib : Welcome to tonight’s edition of Vox Populi! Please say hi when you arrive!