AdLib : Patsy – I was actually surprised that it wasn’t already taken.

Khirad : Excellent news on the URL. See you guys on the other side.

PatsyT : See you there

AdLib : Well, looks like we’ve reached the end of tonight’s Vox Populi! The chat can continue at the connected post here: «link»

PatsyT : I like the name and the site name

AdLib : To begin, it will be hosted at WordPress. Funds will need to be raised to host it independently. Though, the voting is clear, GROWdemocracy.or g is the most popular so I have gone ahead and secured that URL.

PatsyT : Will that be a . org ?

Khirad : Ooh, inside scoop.

AdLib : Night Kes!

AdLib : Psst…I’ve already setup a free Wordpress site for GROW as GROWdemocracy but I’m waiting until we’ve firmed up everything to announce it formally.

PatsyT : Nighty Night Kes

kesmarn : Good night, all! “Always look on the bright si-ide of life, ta-dum ta-dum!”

PatsyT : I bet there is a pill for that

PatsyT : GROW is really growing on me

kesmarn : GROW has tremendous potential I think. We owe j’avaz for that one!

Khirad : Well, click-clack (Python) and goodnight kes!

PatsyT : Hey Kes you have fought the good fight

AdLib : My 6 year old thinks Python is very funny. Just watched a Tivo’d episode tonight.

kesmarn : Well, as old Dubya used to say, I’m starting to lose altitude. I may have to call it a day, friends. (After midnight here.)

AdLib : Who knows, if GROW works out, we could crosspost videos of our satirical protests on YouTube, GROW’s site and Funny or Die.

PatsyT : My kids are watching Monty Python Holy Grail

PatsyT : OK in the great here after

AdLib : Patsy – You can post links to videos here but not embedded. I will be setting up the AfterChat article, you could post them there.

Khirad : Yes, we saw the Funny or Die. Too bad Phil Hartman is no longer with us…

kesmarn : Oh…hi there, AdLib…didn’t see you come back in the room. Heh-heh.

PatsyT : Can I post vids on here ?

kesmarn : Did you see the “Funny or Die” one of all the Presidents Past visiting Obama and Michelle in their Whitehouse bedroom?

AdLib : I’m back now, I’ll just sit in my chair…hey who put a tack on it? And quit throwing those spitballs! Get off your desks this instant! You’re all in a lot of trouble now!

PatsyT : I’ll look it up and post very funny

Khirad : What Gilly skit?

kesmarn : Patsy, didn’t see the Gilly skit. Tell!

PatsyT : That costco is a trip

Khirad : Behind the gym – ouch, I got caught – not another detention!

kesmarn : Not me. It was Khirad. And he won’t share what he’s smoking either.

PatsyT : Has Anyone seen that Gilly skit on SNL

kesmarn : Maybe we can bake some into brownies for Sister Sarah!

PatsyT : Who is smoking? you are going to get it!

PatsyT : Hey that slug stuff looks like it can work for Rush and bushes brain that rove slug

kesmarn : Here, Snailie, Snailie!! Here, boy! Try some of this yummy stuff!

PatsyT : Kes Thats the ticket !! Hey mitch…

kesmarn : I’m chewing gum. A whole pack of it!

PatsyT : I am jumping on the table YIPPEE

kesmarn : Patsy, let’s buy some of that and make an appointment with Mitch McConnell.

Khirad : LOL Patsy! Yes kes, teacher’s away!

kesmarn : Oh wow, now we can really go nuts and act up!

PatsyT : Kh at Costco the other day I saw a huge palette of some stuff they labeled SLUG AND SNAIL DEATH They are selling Death !! at a discount , of course

AdLib : Have to pop away for a few minutes, will be right back…

kesmarn : Patsy, you’re right. The Baggers are mad at all the wrong people. And a lot of the people they’re mad at are the ones who aren’t in a particularly good position to fight back.

AdLib : Night Cher!

Khirad : Online communications hone my arguments in the real world too. Particularly when battling a slightly more capable troll.

PatsyT : Nighty Night Cher

kesmarn : Good night, Cher!

Khirad : Bye Cher!

AdLib : Patsy – I see the CoffeeParty thing the same way, well intentioned but no focus, way too general and kumbaya for my taste. Accept that there are rotten people out there who you can’t work with, band together to become a force for good and don’t expect that you can bring everyone together. You can’t.

PatsyT : The Baggers need to be mad a Haliburton Exxon ect not Obama

kesmarn : Thanks, AdLib! I know that people may question the value of on-line organizing, but, like c’lady, I find that the Planet has changed the way I go out into the world and operate or debate issues. Feels different when people have got your back.

Chernynkaya : Sorry friends, I keep getting called away! I must bid you all adieu for now.

Khirad : Haha, Costco! Not bad Patsy. We really have to be better explaining things in accessible terms like that.

AdLib : Kes – I’m very grateful too to have this community to discuss ideas and consider what we can do. Cheers to you and all Planeteers!

PatsyT : Notice with Obama we have not had any huge gas $$ spikes?

kesmarn : You said it, Khirad! Exactly!

AdLib : Patsy – I had an emotional reaction of anger every time I saw or see a Hummer and even though soccer moms are driving them sometimes, it took a lot of discipline not to say something angry. And remember, Bush and the Repubs put through a law giving people a $5,000 tax break for buying a Hummer!

Khirad : The “invisible hand” and Capitalism really are like an organized religion. Only, more like a pyramid scheme of a cult sometimes.

kesmarn : The internet really has been a godsend in uniting people of like minds. I’m so grateful to be in this group that allows us to strategize and brainstorm. There’s not much going on locally.

PatsyT : Say aren’t these bagger types the kind that like Costco, Sams Club, Walmart, they like have collective buying cant they think of the Public Option that way?

Chernynkaya : Agree Patsy– it seems to be nothing but a very smart name.

kesmarn : It’s amazing how difficult it is to de-program people who’ve been trained from childhood to believe that Capitalism is perfect. That the “invisible hand” always works to everyone’s benefit. It’s almost heresy to suggest otherwise. Certainly considered unpatriotic.

PatsyT : That

PatsyT : Tat Coffee thing does not go far enough

AdLib : Kes – The Baggers are proof. Get people riled up enough and they will become active and the numbers will grow. It would be a pseudo-revolutio n and the internet would be key because the MSM would hide such a thing as they did the anti-war protests against launching the Iraq War.

kesmarn : The numbers would have to be huge, as you say, AdLib. But–it’s true–people are getting desperate enough to consider options they wouldn’t have a few years ago.

PatsyT : Hummer- that really summed it up -I can see it now in the History books as the height of gluttony and greed

AdLib : This is why I think the concept behind GROW is not only timely but the key issue to solving the rot that is destroying this nation.

Chernynkaya : Yes Kes– Pogo said it!

AdLib : Kes, there are not enough Sheriff Joes nor enough prisons to stop 10 million Americans, let alone 100 million. If things get worse for people and better for corps, no amount of policing can stop such a movement, really, a revolution.

Khirad : Patsy, hey at least the Hummer is no more. I thought I’d never see that day.

kesmarn : That’s more accurate, Cher. In effect they say: “We have met the enemy is he is us.” But HE isn’t!! He’s the guy in the top 1% of the wealth owners.

AdLib : Sad that America has gone from “The Greatest Generation” volunteering to join the military to fight Hitler and the mindless masses can’t even focus long enough to remember to oppose the Corps that have taken away their salaries, democracy, kid’s futures, etc.

PatsyT : I see a lot of that competition in our neighborhood the biggest SUV’s driven around by moms with one little kid talking on their cell Ugh!

Chernynkaya : Yes, Kes, but I don;t think they blame themselves– they blame THE POOR! They blame the other schmuck in the same boat and if they themselves are no in trouble, they get to be smug. They never blame the right places becasue, yes, tou are right– too scary!

kesmarn : But AdLib, there are a lot of Sheriff Joes out there, willing to pull out the tasers, the clubs and the weapons to protect the property of the wealthy.

AdLib : Cher – So do I but hopefully as people in the streets taking over the HQ’s of Citibank and B of A and Goldman and occupying the homes, boats and jets of all of them. Take it away from them without violence and don’t budge.

kesmarn : Cher, exactly! Because hearing the truth means that there are big bad powerful forces that we are going to have to take on, and that scares people. It’s almost easier to blame themselves. Then they can just get high and try to forget about it all.

PatsyT : tip off like GOLDman SACKS

Chernynkaya : Khirad, pls see my reply ot Kes below.

PatsyT : blank fine, the name, should have been a tip off

Chernynkaya : Adlib– I hope that happens!!!

kesmarn : Patsy, we could start by putting Lloyd Blankfein in prison! (CEO of Goldman-Sachs)

Chernynkaya : Kes, people believe that because it is too painful to believ the truth. No one wants to hear anything that osen;t confrm to their ready-made opinions. No one is open to any inconvenient truths and that cowardice is our undoing.

AdLib : The thing is, people have used up so much of their available home equity and credit, the banks have cut their credit and don’t want to offer more…and that was what people were using to live The American Dream since their wages have been declining. The buffer is mostly gone so if there is another economic crash or Corps think they can keep robbing from the public, there will be a reckoning.

Khirad : Economic woes do arouse anger and unrest – but why is it focused at all the wrong things? This goes back to the original topic.

PatsyT : Where do we go from here ??

kesmarn : Patsy nailed it: short term memory loss. Plus a good job of brain washing by the right. People now believe that it was only irresponsible borrowers who burst the bubble. That people on unemployment are just lazy. And that HCR is a socialist plot.

Chernynkaya : The public is an ass. And back to your original question about hate and suicide killers: What if those crazies killed a CEO? I am afraid I would cheer.

Khirad : How can people be against both bailouts AND regulation? …

AdLib : Remember when the crash had just happened, corporate CEOs were hiding out, hiring bodyguards, the public demanded reform and everyone promised to do it. Now that things aren’t supposedly so bad and people have calmed down, these same corps who were saved with taxpayer money have been doing everything they can to kill HCR and regulation…and the public is divided on siding with them!

kesmarn : We’re so bloody confrontation-av erse!

Chernynkaya : Adlib, agree totally. That’s just the American psyche. I wish we’d never bailed out the banks and all suffered then and now, instead of lingering pain.

kesmarn : Hah! We’re on the same page, AdLib!

kesmarn : Patsy, yes, and I think the left needs to take a look at the work ethic in some areas. For example, organizing unions is harder that job-surfing and stealing from your employer. But it works out better in the long run.

AdLib : Cher – Going back to what you and others discussed before, I think it will take an even worse crash and suffering for Americans to get off their overstuffed asses and go out in the streets to take democracy back. That is a terrible thing to wish for, I hope it’s not the case but unless people are starving and can’t afford a Snuggy, let alone prescription meds, they just won’t take the necessary steps.

Khirad : I think I worked on something that was more technical (I forget, but it involved looking through a lot of Greek vocab and polisci terms), but plutocracy is generally agreed upon.

PatsyT : They have sold the Americans the thought that you should not have to work hard for anything and there is a pill for that what ever that is. Remember when Bush used to say he was working hard? Ha Ha Corporations do not want to have to work hard for anything they want the red carpet laid out for them but want the welfare state to get to work no matter how hard that may be

kesmarn : Khirad, security was called on that one!

Chernynkaya : I do not disagree! But that means we need a leader as never before.

kesmarn : We are absolutely living in a plutocracy.

Khirad : Wow, kes, someone was in need of inpatient treatment followed by NA – forthwith!

AdLib : Does anyone disagree that we’re living in a plutocracy?

Chernynkaya : aDLIB That is just do depressing. It is so hard not to turn off, but unfortunately, I cannot just watch American Idol-too boring!

AdLib : Patsy – Isn’t that what the whole Pharma industry is built on, the lie that merged into the American Dream? That you can have it all and never have to work for anything, you can just push a button or take a pill.

kesmarn : AdLib, I saw that movie. It was brilliant. Yes, the total arrogance of the plutocrats. Didn’t even attempt to disguise what they were doing!

Khirad : AdLib, that reminds me of INGSOC’s view of the proles…

PatsyT : One of those big Phama ads for quitting smoking

AdLib : kes – In Moore’s film “Capitalism”, he shares a leaked Citibank memo to its biggest investors which explains that the U.S. is already a de facto plutocracy with no real threat in sight. The memo added that technically, the public could take the country back if they banded together as a majority but they didn’t seem to worried about that happening. The GOP is serving them well, in this environment we might have all come together to bring the corps down to size which is why the division has to be more intense from the corporate stooges, the GOP.

kesmarn : Patsy, that’s it in a nutshell. I had a patient this past week say that he was going to come back to the hospital and kill me if he didn’t get discharged with a handfull of prescriptions for narcotics. Demand and ye shall receive. (He didn’t get them.)

Chernynkaya : Patsy– great comment and I so agree! But what were you referring to?

PatsyT : Me Me Me I am sick of it! How about that quit smoking ad where the woman says I can take Chantix and Smoke at the same time Ohhh so you can quit and smoke at the same time -not to worry -you do not have to work at anything You can smoke and Quit at the same time so easy for you

kesmarn : I didn’t see the interview, Khirad. But I know what quants are and I understand they have NOT gone away. Not good.

Khirad : Yeah, the CC thing I’ve heard, too.

Khirad : Who saw the interview with the writer of The Quants? These guys are still on Wall St…

kesmarn : AdLib, the bottom line is that they (Wall St.) believe they are more powerful than the government and all the citizenry, then? That’s a daunting thought!

AdLib : Oh, I forgot to mention that Michael Moore also mentioned the enormous credit card debt as another crash waiting to happen, debt that can never be repaid and is continuing to increase in record amounts.

Chernynkaya : Yeah, adlib– they can always do better with a corporatist administration than with the Dems

AdLib : Kes – If they had that concern, they wouldn’t have driven the economy off a cliff. They have utter faith in greed and being too big to fail countering democracy, fairness and an angry public.

Chernynkaya : Kes– that’s my question too. The middle class is almost broke, and in debt up to its eyeballs. WHo is gonna buy all the useless crap they want and need to sell us? Or, is the new market going to be credit? No more goods, just credit and carbon credits?

kesmarn : Sigh. True. Wall St. has enough golden eggs in the freezer to outlast the total destruction of the country itself…

Khirad : And, imagine what would happen to the market if Obama did come down hard? I think they have his balls in a vicegrip – pardon my salty imagery.

AdLib : Cher – The greedy don’t think about what they have, they focus on what they don’t have and want. They have no sense of conscience or gratitude. They know a Repub Congress and president will loosen regulations and happily cut their taxes.

Khirad : Painglish = a condition of pidgin poop issuing forth from the mouth of a Hollywood-obsess ed closet-elitist wannabe.

kesmarn : AdLib–do those Wall St. guys have any idea, though, what it means to “kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?” At what point do they self-destruct?

AdLib : Cher – Yes, Rahm is very much responsible for running all the Blue Dogs and ConservaDems and getting them in as saboteurs and extortionists in Congress. He fought and hated Howard Dean who believed that real Dems could win in all 50 states. Dean was right but Rahm undermined him.

kesmarn : Patsy, it worked for Dubya!

Chernynkaya : Adlib– they (banks) are doing pretty good w/ Obama as prez, no?

kesmarn : Cher, that was a big, nasty splash of cold water in my face too. Grrrrr.

Khirad : That’s not so woo-woo AdLib, actually.

PatsyT : Kes – Palinglish a new weapon

Chernynkaya : It was areal wake up for me to realize we’d won with a phoney majority of DINO’s. we have no majority, just dome REPtilians who didn’t want to run as R’s after Bush, so Rahm scooped em up and said come to Papa! Now, we are more screwed because expectations were that we were actually in power.

Khirad : This is what is so frustrating. They are arguing against their own HC plan now, and people are so dense not to get it. Eff them and do it. When the USSA doesn’t come, they’ll feel stupid (okay, I’m being way too generous).

PatsyT : But the lies have an after bite look out repubs

AdLib : Not to be a conspiracy therorist but if the banks and Wall Street want a Repub in as president, wouldn’t it make sense for them, if they’re in a position to, let the hammer drop on a new economic crash in 2012, before the election?

kesmarn : Things are still pretty dire, after “only” the first dip. Hard to imagine what might follow another one. And I can’t believe they killed that measley $250 bill for Soc Sec recipients who did not get a COLA increase this year!

PatsyT : They have figured how to confound us by hypnotizing us with lies like the chicken with the a chalk line in the road

Khirad : Yes Cher, AFTER 2012.

Chernynkaya : This will sound terrible, but that second dip may be the kick we need to demand more stim. I hope it comes after 2012 tho!

AdLib : Look, the Repubs have come out against the very plans they supported for HCR just months ago and even call them unconstitutional now. They are lying sacks of shit so they need to be ignored and Dems need to get spinal transplants and just say, “Fuck ‘em!”

kesmarn : Patsy, you’re right. We try to be logical and reasonable and then we get Palinglish thrown back at us and the only response is: “HUH??”

Khirad : I think the focus should be on getting rid of our own a-holes too. I saw the Arkansan challenger. Don’t know much about him, but he was photogenic and well-spoken. He could win general, possibly.

PatsyT : It would help if they were firm in their beliefs

Chernynkaya : Patsy — Yes! Forget the R! Do what ever you think is right!

kesmarn : Seriously, AdLib? I missed that. Moore’s very sharp; which make that prediction even scarier.

Khirad : A “double-dip” I fear would be catastrophic – on the human level AND political.

AdLib : Moore also said that he expects more economic crashes, that the commercial real estate crash hasn’t been accounted for yet.

PatsyT : Cher I feel that the dems go out with what they think should be a airtight argument and the repub always pull a lie out of their A– and confuse them – — How do you anticipate the next lie — Maybe by sticking to your principals ??

Chernynkaya : (Still ranting) seriously, why do the Progs spend so much energy on the MINORITY Party? We do have to pay attention to elections, but we have allowed them to define our debates from Nov. to today. We spend so much air time analyzing those fucks, but what about our own assholes? It upsets me.

kesmarn : Right, AdLib. The right views us the same way they view their donors. “What a bunch of suckers!”

Khirad : Yeah, I saw Moore’s comments. Like, at least the GOP has cojones when in power.

kesmarn : Someone posted some comments by Michael Moore today on the Planet to the effect that the left really needs to stop being invertebrate. Moore is pissed.

Khirad : Yeah, Cher, I think we should be more scared of them regaining power than scared of what will happen if we grow a spine. That’s the difference for me.

AdLib : Cher – So with you on the wimpy, “What will the Repubs say about us?” bullshit that Dems use to make decisions. Let me make this easy for Dem politicians, “THE REPUBLICANS WILL KICK YOU IN THE BALLS WHATEVER YOU DO!”

kesmarn : AdLib has pretty much convinced me. At some point Rahm needs to go overboard.

Chernynkaya : Khirad– one of my beefs is that we on the Left spend far too much time thinking about waht the Right will do. Fuck em hard! I mean who really cares? They should be irrelevant! Yet that’s all we talk about– Plain, Beck and the other anuses. We have out own problems and we allow ourselves to constantly talk about the R’s! I don’t mean “US” i mean the left.

Khirad : “Impotent rage”. I love it.

Khirad : Reshuffling the cabinet is coming, but not sooner than Nov. I’m curious who else could go. Will he cave in to Arianna, too?

kesmarn : I think a HCR victory would go a long way toward taking the wind out of the RW sails. They might get angry, but it would be a sort of impotent rage. (Maybe that’s nothing new!)

AdLib : Khirad – I think the baggers would lose all their funding at that point since its coming from the GOP faithful, then they’d fall apart.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– very good pt, didn’;t think of that.

Khirad : The more the RW bellyaches, the more they revive anger and attacking the parliamentarian, shows me we may be closer than we think. The more they shout, the closer we are, I hope. What a “victory” would do? Would it make them angrier or deflate them?

PatsyT : This country has a bad case of Short term Memory loss

Chernynkaya : Yeah, Cheney’s too rotten to die.

AdLib : Cher – I think it’s now a strength v. weakness thing with Rahm going. If Obama even was to consider firing him in the near term, he would look weak and like he is folding to Sarah Palin and the GOP. I’ve heard that it couldn’t happen sooner than after the election this Nov, even if he wanted to which I agree, he doesn’t seem to want to do.

kesmarn : Did Cheney ever get out of the hospital? I’ve been out of the news loop for a few days.

kesmarn : Good point, Khirad!

Khirad : How fast would the “non-partisan” teabaggers disappear if Obama lost? I’m sorry for even raising the possibility – just a hypothetical to think about.

AdLib : I am totally fine with Obama not being seen as a shoe in for a 2nd term. Worrying about a return to Bush’s America under Romney will be a real motivator, no matter how upset folks are with Obama.

PatsyT : Cheney has been wrong about many things before !

Chernynkaya : Adlib, yes Rahm but his boss still likes him, so why blame Rahm ( that asshole?0 Why not accept that Obama is keeping him. We’ll see after the HCR vote. Rahm might not deliver and be chopped liver.

kesmarn : The Rs are so hate-able. Bring the country to ruin and then be totally unrepentant about it. Follow that up by fanning flames of hostility. Altogether bad people.

PatsyT : If people give into the RW crap -Cheney saying that he will be a one term pres- they just hand it over the the RW Yuck !

Khirad : Exactly Cher. The purists have yet to convince me against voting and working to elect the better alternative.

AdLib : President Romney? Reversal of HCR if it gets passed? De-regulation of the economy and tax cuts for the rich? I can’t imagine that people have already forgotten what happened during the Bush years.

Chernynkaya : I am still highly motivated by my hatred of the R to knock on doors to defeat the Pugs.

kesmarn : Patsy, that’s very encouraging news!

Khirad : I hope that Lincoln is taken down, that would be a victory for a re-enthused Left.

kesmarn : Cher, my son would definitely vote for Obama again. He just doubts that he would be able to win.

Chernynkaya : aDLIB, MAYBE. But there is so much love lost now, and so much bitterness that i see and hear towards O, I don;t think this HCR will go far enough to appease the Left.

Khirad : There’s no question that I’ll vote, and who I’ll vote for, but will I be as enthused to make calls and knock on doors? I don’t know…

PatsyT : I have more faith in Obama and his safety because every year there is a new group of 18 year olds that can vote and they are poling for Obama 66 %

kesmarn : Cher–yes, the RW organizes and funds the demos, then objects when Pelosi calls them astroturf!

Chernynkaya : My son is more patient with Obama– but he too may sit out 2012.

AdLib : Cher – Obama has lost the major enthusiasm from the left (thanks to Rahm IMO) but if he can get HCR passed and financial regulations, if it’s him against Romney in 2012, the left will be re-energized I think.

Chernynkaya : Kes, I agree, but the R is well funded by the likes of freedom Works. We have no funding. The RW pays for busses and actually, there really weren’t more than maybe 15k-20k at the protests.

Khirad : Grijalva put it perfectly. How can we not pass some form of HCR and expect to pass stuff in the future? Well, he put it much more eloquently, but as a pure practical matter, we need to get something to build other legislation from. Otherwise, I fear early lame-duckitude.

kesmarn : My 24 year old son was a very early and ardent supporter of Obama, but he’s resigned to his being a one-termer now, he tells me.

AdLib : Khirad – You have an excellent point. Imagine if a group of black men with guns cruised into Fox News offices. Would Glenn Beck be slapping their backs or cowering under his desk. See, safety is white people having guns.

kesmarn : I guess–regarding demonstrations– I’m just thinking how hard it would be for so many people I know to go to D.C. for example–time and money-wise.

Chernynkaya : Adlib, it is too little too late for the base. I hate to say that but believe it. Obama has lost the left.

AdLib : Cher – I can’t blame any Dems for feeling demoralized. It will help if HCR is passed and if that is built on to pass bank reforms and other Dem issues.

Chernynkaya : Kes- I don’t think so. There are PLENTY out of wk. Real unemployment is over 20%

kesmarn : Wow. Chilling to see the prediction about the 2d term, but perhaps very realistic, too?

Khirad : Can anyone imagine if liberals started packing heat? Like, how unpatriotic that would be seen as from FOX? Like the Black Panthers and Weathermen? But, when RW’s do it, its practicing their Constitutional Freedoms and guarding against “Tyranny”…

Chernynkaya : Yes adlib– He is a walking bulls eye! I cannot think about it, but if pressed, I’d be surprised he survives a 2nd term.

kesmarn : Cher, I’ve wondered if part of the reason the left doesn’t organize protests is that we are (many of us) still employed. Baggers are an older demographic?

PatsyT : I was glad to see the Education protest in CA this week at the UC’s

AdLib : If there were zombies, the GOP would stampede to patronize them and get their votes. They’d have to add cannibalism to their platform…if it’s not already part of it.

Chernynkaya : But I am actually less upset by the expected violence than I am by the LACK of violence form the Left. I don’t really mean that but I want some real protests, yet believe we are too demoralized to fight!

AdLib : My fear, and I don’t scare easily, is that the threats against Obama are probably multiplying and more possible now.

kesmarn : And of course, Cher, everyone is armed these days. I even hear people on the left saying that they’re going to start packing heat.

PatsyT : Lion and Tigers and Zombies oh my !

Chernynkaya : I do expect many more hate crimes if not suicide attacks. I expect more mass shootings.

Khirad : Kes, I know, multitasking is a bit hard to do, but I can still manage!

PatsyT : Going Zombie

AdLib : Patsy – zombies, Repubs, Baggers, how do you tell them apart?

PatsyT : Palins next book

Khirad : Okay, I was wondering to do it now or later. Now is good – it pertains to our topic. «link»

kesmarn : Khirad, how do you do research and type here at the same time? I can barely focus on the five subjects here!

AdLib : Khirad – You can post the link here, it will appear as “link” but it will be saved here for people to go back to after this edition is over.

PatsyT : I thought we were talking Zombies

Chernynkaya : Kes, he tells me it’s a global problem; that other countries aren’t exactly begging for Americans to take their jobs, and as for Canada, he believes they are only doing well becasue they have a big neighbor to the south. he won’t leave.

kesmarn : A 9000 pound ham, stomping in from Alaska. I can see it now, Patsy.

Khirad : Found the Rachel clip. Phew. It’s about the religious right & militias and how unpatriotic they are.

PatsyT : Laugh of Die !

AdLib : So, to get back to whatever the topic is, do you expect more of these suicide attacks to come? WIll they rise in frequency? Could the more that happen encourage more to follow?

PatsyT : Fifty Foot Zombie Bagger Women doing STAND UP ?-?- RUN !!!

Chernynkaya : Oooh that’s a good one Ad. We need to come up with a bunch f those! Maybe for the video? Zoms are hot now.

Khirad : As it should, kes, as it should. I am a little proud that Raúl Grijalva was on MSNBC today, though (co-chair of Progressive Caucus from South/West Tucson).

kesmarn : Cher, I’m presenting the glories of Canada to my kids.

kesmarn : Zombie’s have better make up?

Chernynkaya : Zombies flush the toilst?

AdLib : One actually wants brains.

Chernynkaya : Well, I do despair for the US. I tried to convince my kid to move somewhere else last night, ot no avail.

AdLib : What’s the difference between a zombie and a Republican.

kesmarn : Arizona scares the living hell out of me.

AdLib : Khirad – Saw that silliness with McCain trying to use racism with being Photoshopped into an Avatar character. What a desperate, lying, nasty human being…each of them are.

kesmarn : This has the makings of a great 1950’s sci fi movie poster. Time to call WTS.

PatsyT : Kes except the Fifty Foot Zombie Bagger MIGHT JUST BE HER !!! ARRRRRghggh

kesmarn : AdLib, it took me a full 30 seconds to get that. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, but I’ve managed to do it.

Khirad : LOL AdLib, punmeisters beware!

Chernynkaya : Adlib– OUCH!

AdLib : Thanks Cher! I was afraid I’d have to moderate myself for going OT!

kesmarn : Patsy–one time when we could use Palin with helicopter and rifle!

AdLib : That protest was Bunning the candle at both ends.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– Zombies= the rage virus= RW hate machine+ militias. See? It is on the topic!

PatsyT : Attack of the Fifty Foot Zombie Bagger !!!

kesmarn : Bunning sure didn’t help anybody with his histrionics this past week.

AdLib : Cher – Yes, the GOP are like kids playing with matches that have set a forrest fire that can burn down their homes too. They have so infuriated people that they just blindly hate now. ALL politicians and parties!

Chernynkaya : Anyone see Zombieland? Adlib, you are a zombie-baiter!

PatsyT : This all goes back to the lack of opportunity for the middle class How can we get that message across?

kesmarn : I hope you’re right, AdLib. I hope unemployed Dems w/out health care don’t get so mad they’ll vote for any zombie bagger out there.

Chernynkaya : Why not? They’re brain dead.

AdLib : Hey, maybe the Zombie can be the mascot for the Baggers!

Chernynkaya : Uh Oh, AdlIb. You mentioned zombies. I have a lot to say about that! I will try to keep on topic now.

AdLib : Kes – Any district crazy enough to elect a Bagger would elect a Repub and never a Dem. That’s fine because it takes a seat away from the GOP.

Khirad : Will do, Kes.

kesmarn : Khirad, would appreciate it if you can find the F. Schaeffer vid. I love that guy.

Khirad : Anyone see the Hayworth ad against McCain with the Na’vi reference, and then McCain’s people shot back that they were insulting Amerindians? …not that Amerindians have any impact on the Arizonan GOP primary (!) – but it was not-so-subtly calling Hayworth people racists.

Chernynkaya : “The same thing happened to the GOP with the Religious Right.” If the SPLC can be believed, it’s gone way beyond that. The militias HATE ALL govt. Repubs too. The “Patriots” are actually anti-American as we know it.They have gotten so mad that they do not trust any Party.

PatsyT : AdLib I have some childrens book with that same story

AdLib : Patsy, like having a baby Zombie that grows to adulthood in months.

kesmarn : But–OMG–AdLib. ..what if they actually get elected!

kesmarn : Patsy–the new pet being a boa constrictor!

AdLib : What’s hilarious is that the Baggers are putting up rivals to the GOP and splitting the vote on the right. We can only hope that they run them in Nov too!

Khirad : Frank was brilliant. I’ll try to find the video when we end here.

PatsyT : was Frank S on this week ?

kesmarn : Missed F. Schaeffer unfortunately. And you are so right, AdLib!

Chernynkaya : I dont know for sure if their fear campaign is having an effect, because we only hear about the wingers on the R. Is the great middle affected or even turned off by the RW? I hope so! Sometimes I am surprised by the SANITY of the voters.

PatsyT : AdLib like that new pet so cutte at first but when it gets big and the luster has worn off…

Khirad : Anyone see Frank Schaeffer on Rachel?

kesmarn : I think the Repubs think these disaffected people are gonna vote Repub, but they might discover that some genuine Brown Shirt loonies get elected as “conservatives ” or “independents. “

AdLib : The same thing happened to the GOP with the Religious Right. The GOP figured they’d just patronize those rubes to get their votes then eventually had their party taken over by them. Now, history is repeating itself with the teabaggers.

PatsyT : Kes Pandora’s Box is right . . .

Khirad : Kes, they’re playing with fire, that much is clear.

AdLib : Cher – What I mean is that they claim their actions in whipping up anger is not responsible for doctors being assassinated for performing abortions or people making death threats against Obama…yet they continue to whip up people. What I mean is that they are so transparently dishonest, if it doesn’t work, why keep doing it?

kesmarn : They embrace ‘em, Khirad, at the same time that they have contempt for ‘em. Have they opened Pandora’s Box?

Chernynkaya : As far as the RW spin machine, if a few lone wolves cause havoc– well, necessary losses. As long as they regain power.

Khirad : I don’t know kes, they’ve embraced the tiger, with that whole fundraising memo.

PatsyT : You can watch American I’m Dull no thanks

kesmarn : Sometimes I get the feeling that the RW is beginning to realize they are “riding the tiger” with these tea baggers. The tail is starting to wag the dog. They’re losing control of their “minions.”

PatsyT : The lack of the Fairness Doctrine isn’t helping

AdLib : kes – This is a pattern we’ve seen repeatedly, anything that leads people to question what they think is the status quo, is swept under the rug. Or the Snuggy, so we can all just go back to watching American Idol in peace.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– do you mean why is the RW promoting fear?

Khirad : Yes, whatever happened to these stories in the MSM?

Chernynkaya : Hard to say. I think it’s likely– black prez, economy, Fox whipping them up and the RNC promoting fear. So yeah, there are more hate groups– 244% more and something’s bound to happen.

kesmarn : Khirad, do you notice that the MSM in general seem to have “disappeared” the whole Austin suicide pilot story?

PatsyT : Mitzi cool !

AdLib : At the same time they’re promoting hatred, the RW are indeed silent and dismissive of its effect. If it had no effect, why are they doing it?

PatsyT : Kh you have a great point !

kesmarn : People like Beck and Limbaugh definitely have a hand in cranking these people up, I think.

Chernynkaya : Sorry Patsy– got a call– she looked like Mitzi gaynor.

AdLib : Sorry, sent the first version before it was finished, ignore the first version.

Khirad : Why are right-wingers so silent? Isn’t that what we demand of Muslims?

AdLib : TO BEGIN, TWO SUICIDE ATTACKS IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS BY AMERICANS AND ALLEGEDLY AGAINST AMERICA. THE LATEST ATTACK WAS BY SOMEONE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS BUT HE WAS STILL MOTIVATED TO ACT. WHETHER ATTACKERS ARE MENTALLY ILL OR NOT, IS THE HATRED BEING PROMOTED BY THE RW CREATING THIS? IS IT GOING TO BE AN ONGOING TRICKLE? WILL IT BECOME A FLOOD?

kesmarn : Why do I crave filet mignon and bacon every Friday?

PatsyT : Kes lay off the fish

AdLib : TO BEGIN, TWO SUICIDE ATTACKS IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS BY AMERICANS AND ALLEGEDLY AGAINST AMERICA. THE LATEST ATTACK WAS BY SOMEONE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS BUT HE WAS STILL MOTIVATED TO ACT. WHETHER ATTACKERS ARE MENTALLY ILL OR NOT, IS THE HATRED BEING PROMOTED BY THE RW CREATING THIS A TRICKLE THAT

kesmarn : Hey, Patsy! I’m dazed and confused as usual on Friday night. Too much fish. Too much mercury.

PatsyT : Hi Kes !

kesmarn : I’ve been wandering around like a poster child for Alzheimer’s trying to find everyone. Expect no brilliance from me tonight! Hi, everyone!

PatsyT : Cher I will have to look later who did you say your mom looked like?

Khirad : Ever try to multitask when chatting here? Even now it’s not so easy…

PatsyT : When the cats away the mice will play …

AdLib : Odd…I will fix it now! Be right back!

PatsyT : AdLib the links did not work so got here by going to live events

Chernynkaya : Yep I HATE her.

Khirad : Does hate in America include Liz Cheney of Al-Chaida and her Jihad against our legal system?

Chernynkaya : Hey, Patsy!

PatsyT : Hi Guys

Chernynkaya : Where is everyone? They’re tardy.

Khirad : Oh, good, some light fare.

Chernynkaya : Stop reading that smut!

AdLib : I read something about it somewhere.

AdLib : Welcome Cher!

Chernynkaya : Nooooo Not Hate in America!!

Chernynkaya : Hi all. Had a drink at dinner, so I probably can’t type

AdLib : I thought we’d lead off with hatred in America and individuals committing suicide attacks. Then, favorite dessert recipes.

Khirad : Alright, what’s on tap tonight? (discussion wise…)

AdLib : Hey Khirad! How are you doing tonight?

Khirad : Hi!

AdLib : Welcome to Vox Populi! Please say hi when you arrive!

AdLib : Cheers Patsy!

PatsyT : Another Great Vox Populi Thanks all !!

AdLib : Looks like we’ve reached the end of tonight’s edition of Vox Populi. Thank you all for being a part of it, a lot of fun and some interesting ideas. The chat can continue at the AfterChat article, click this link to go there: «link»

Blues Tiger : I think it got overshadowed quickly by Utahs abortion crap

PatsyT : Give Bloom energy a goggle lots of info there

PatsyT : OK well then I will have to go back in history and push those buttons

AdLib : Duh!

AdLib : OH!!! I saw that, I was thinking it was some investment group or think tank like the ones we were discussing!

Blues Tiger : Dang AdLib I posted a link and announced It’s Bloom Box Day the other day

AdLib : Patsy – It was 1 or 2 weeks ago, you were “on”.

AdLib : Bloom box?

Blues Tiger : I am trying to keep up on the Bloom Box Patsy…

Chernynkaya : Nothing Patsy. Just the idea of comedy wins. Unions. Health care ins. the whole thing. Oh, too hard in this format!

PatsyT : Bloom box that is one to follow …

PatsyT : What did I say that was so funny ??

PatsyT : I have ideas when do you guys want to take it to the next step?

Chernynkaya : Right– forgot about independently wealthy nellie.

Blues Tiger : What is the name of the Guy who first funded Google ,E-Bay and the Bloom Box? He might be someone who would invest…

PatsyT : Nellie where for art thou ?

AdLib : Hey, maybe Nellie can finance this, I hear her website is worth $125 million!

Chernynkaya : Thanks Pats I always go for comedy!! Can’;t you tell?

PatsyT : You know you can make a down and dirty vid and get all the street cred if it is hitting home you do not need a big backing at least to start with

Chernynkaya : Yes–mmentioned him below– and david geffin– into medicine. Do a search Chronicle of Philanthropy to start.

AdLib : Patsy! You make me laugh and I’m a tough audience!

AdLib : Maybe someone like Soros would be a good candidate?

PatsyT : Sorry for the tease Cher I can not make comedy win BUT a Well placed presence that is funny will travel

Chernynkaya : AdLib– YES. Davos and all those think tank places. Aspen Institute etc.

AdLib : Patsy – Laughter is the best medicine…and sometimes the only kind cover by your health plan.

AdLib : Cher – Just saw a thing on 60 Minutes a week or so ago about Davos, they invited people who have great ideas for businesses. Maybe next year, Davos?

Chernynkaya : PAtsy– please elaborate. I want comedy to win, I think. do I?

PatsyT : Comedy wins then !

AdLib : Cher – Exactly! Like charter schools, private non-profit companies doing what Medicare or SS might do and being subsidized as Medicare Advantage was designed. Just add in their ability to take on everyone.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– seriously dude. You should write to some leftie philanthropist– david geffin or soros and present that idea. or Trumpke– and C’lady!

AdLib : Patsy – It would be so funny! And Dems couldn’t turn down subsidizing the unions, they’d be scared not to!

PatsyT : AdLib a few well placed Ideas can go a long way

Chernynkaya : Yes– govt subsidies. but your idea is really very big. I mean it. like private schools in a way. And what else? You can make abortions available if you don’t take govt funds. A small point, but still…

AdLib : Cher – Can’t help it, my approach is that if you hit an obstacle, accept it and find another way to your goal. If Dems are terrified of voting for a Public Option, do an end run and simply provide subsidies for “private businsess” which Repubs claim to support.

Blues Tiger : I wonder if Co-Op healt care is feasible

PatsyT : Ohh lets freak them out – - run by UNIONS !!

Chernynkaya : Oh–you are righT Adlib, i know. Just sayin’.

Blues Tiger : My better have is planning on buying the pink and black Sig 22 next couple of weeks

AdLib : Cher – SO, why not have private non-profits start up…that then get subsidies from the government and become de facto Public Options paid for by the government, without being technically government run?

Chernynkaya : ADLIB — that’s what made me write ass– I knew it!!

PatsyT : Tiger I was quoting the Gary Oldman line for Batman “I gotta get me one of those”

AdLib : Patsy – We look to government to do things but it’s thinking outside of the box to consider what resources exist to accomplish the same goal.

Chernynkaya : But it may come to that.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– altho the idea is good, it bothers me because I think the govt should do it. It also give the reptilians the right to say, See the free fucking market works!

PatsyT : Adlib Yes why not I could go for that

AdLib : So close, Cher! I was thinking of a Tostadass.

PatsyT : Yes Tiger . . very interesting

Blues Tiger : oops Pink Gun…

AdLib : SO, what about this idea of unions, perhaps backed by their credit unions, creating non-profit health insurance companies?

Chernynkaya : Adlib asked me what he was thinking of, and it was tostadas. Or a piece of ass as all men think every 20 secs.

Blues Tiger : Hey Patsy!!! Did you see your Pink Gum Links?

PatsyT : Tostadas ?

PatsyT : Night bito and Kes

AdLib : Night Kes!

Chernynkaya : Take care, Kes!

kesmarn : Good night, b’ito! And I’m afraid I have to take my leave now, too. Tomorrow it’s back to the salt mines. Sigh… Good night, all!

AdLib : Night bito!

AdLib : BT – Yes, Blue Cross was a non-profit and gave incredible care and benefits for low premiums. It certainly could happen again with a new entity.

Chernynkaya : Night Bito, BB!

Chernynkaya : Tostadas.

bitohistory : OK, now this time, looking at the clock, I must say good night, Best to you, my friends. Now it will take me 10 minutes to close down this machine. lol Who opened all these sites?

AdLib : Cher! WHat am I thinking of right now?

PatsyT : Hey Tiger !

Blues Tiger : Hellooooooo AdLib and everyone…

kesmarn : Well…how dumb am I! I never knew that!

Chernynkaya : It’s insurance for insurance cos. Kes. In case they run out of $$ to pay premiums. They have those for property ins and Life ins, but I am only assuming it’s for health ins. too.

PatsyT : Bito with three girlswe Have to keep up insurance so believe me there are many a thing I go without to make sure we have insurance

AdLib : Welcome Tiger!

kesmarn : Hey, Blues! I understand Blue Cross was originally non-profit.

AdLib : kes – No, what insurance companies do is co-insure, that is, they take out insurance against having to pay out too much. It is far less, co-insuring, than directly paying for health insurance.

kesmarn : Cher, I feel silly asking, but what is “re-insurance” ? (I should probably know this, but don’t!)

Blues Tiger : Wasn’t Blues Cross a Non profit initially along the lines your talking about?

PatsyT : Hey we have been through the trenches with many a insurance co back in Illinois and here in CA Ohhh the REAL stories I can tell

Chernynkaya : Kes, even insurance co’s have re-insurance for someone like that patient.

AdLib : Patsy – That’s part of the vicious circle that’s been created. All the corporations draining us of so much, we need to borrow. Then we’re hooked on credit, then more money has to go to pay interest and we have less and less, being virtual serfs who work just to pay our masters. That’s what I liked about the movie The Matrix. Corporations just see us as human batteries to drain then discard when we’re not providing them with what they need.

Chernynkaya : Adlib, just as your comment appeared I was thinking that– there could be credit union-type insurers or affiliation groups like the AFL/CIO — they could each start an insurance co.

kesmarn : It’s a great idea, AdLib, but I had a patient recently who had $800,000 plus bills in ONE year. A few members like that and you have major financial probs with a small group.

bitohistory : Patsy,Ah , Disposable income! even h. Ford realized that(after a few bloody strikes)

AdLib : Cher – A big pool of investment money would be required at startup but not as much as Midas if they started small and local, like credit unions. Down the line, they could network and cover more nationally.

kesmarn : Patsy, and the sad thing is, if you made a claim on your insurance they would try hard to deny it, and then raise your rates!

PatsyT : Adlib we can pay our insurance premiums but it takes away from so many other things we should be putting our $$$ toward ! and we could be helping the economy with other spending

Chernynkaya : Adlib, i suppose it could if someone rich as Midas started one. But it would probably be like that Tucker car– the big insurers would do anything to destroy it,

bitohistory : k’es rhetoric not solutions. Politics over policy.

AdLib : Cher – Ignorance is indeed bliss. Ask any lemming before it blindly follows others off a cliff and hurtles to its untimely death. Except for that, they were really blissful.

kesmarn : b’ito. Exactly. Been around as long as “divide and conquer.” No?

bitohistory : k’es, those with power have always tried to develop differences. if it was to their advantage. Ya think?

kesmarn : Yes, Cher, I was debating with a RWer the other day, using facts, and he finally said: “Nothing you could ever say will change my mind. Ever.”

AdLib : Okay, here’s a question. Since all that health insurance companies do is act as a middleman, taking money from people and paying it to doctors, why couldn’t a grass roots, non-profit company be created as a Public Option to do the same?

Chernynkaya : We really live in 2 americas with 2 different realities, and there will be no meeting of the minds. The vast center is by definition low-info voters–always undecided. The are the only ones who are happy. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

kesmarn : b’ito, what was the thing that disappointed them the most?

AdLib : Patsy – That’s why I want this passed, to help your family, KQuark and millions of fellow human beings who have been pushed into an inescapable corner by the greed of insurance corporations.

bitohistory : listening to cspann (good source?)yesterda y, there were a lot or R’s dissapointed in their party.

Chernynkaya : So both Kes and Adlib depressed me but it’s what I feared. In a way tho, it’s better that they know it’s a lie than to believe it.

kesmarn : b’ito, I wonder if the corps encourage racial tensions, though, because it takes our attention away from their nefarious doings.

AdLib : Kes – The MSM is owned by profit driven corporations. Their only goal and their legal obligation is to make as much money as possible. They can be sued by shareholders and lose for doing what’s best for the nation instead of what’s best for their shareholders.

kesmarn : Cher, on the question of voter awareness: here’s where the Christian right comes in. They’ll vote for literally anyone who has the right buzz words on abortion and gay marriage.

AdLib : Cher – A very good question. I have a couple of thoughts, first, there are those for whom their party affiliation is like religion, they would no more question their beliefs in one or the other. They were born a Republican, they will die one…soon unfortunately, because of a lack of health care coverage. I think they know full well that Repubs are lying but it’s all about winning so they turn a blind eye or even applaud it if it makes them “win”.

Chernynkaya : AdlIb– Impeachable offense!Puhleeze . A BJ is impeachable, but not lying about Saddam and hundreds of thousands dead! Hinestly, we should require any political statement be made under oath.

PatsyT : If they can pass some of this now it affects my family right now -I hope- we pay more then our mortgage for our health care insurance and we make no claims on it WTF!!

bitohistory : I don’t think corps worry about race, they think about$$$. pure greed.

kesmarn : As for the motivation of the MSM, I waffle back and forth…racism? greed? racism? greed? Both…?

Chernynkaya : My serious question: Do the vast majority of voters realize what hypocritical liars the GOP are?

AdLib : And does that not border on an impeachable offense, to willingly be responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans for their own greedy purposes?

AdLib : We all know, as does the BSMSM, that the GOP is not honest about wanting any change, certainly not while Obama is president.

kesmarn : Cher, yes, and the Repub version of “slowing down” is to scrap all the work that has been done so far and start over. How many times will they suggest doing that?

bitohistory : You got that right, k’es. Givers and takers.

PatsyT : benefit of the doubt

PatsyT : LBJ I wish . . . Obama has to navigate this territory and this time I have to give Obama the

AdLib : bito – It doesn’t affect me directly either, unless all premiums can be reduced in the long run so I’m with you, I want it to pass because of how it will help others, including friends of mine.

Chernynkaya : That reminds me about the summit– how the DEms were insisting we couldn’t do this incrementally– as if this wasn’t incremental! Geez!

kesmarn : b’ito, I guess we’re the people who plant acorns so future generations can sit in the shade of oaks, huh?

AdLib : Patsy – Imagine what it took for the Dems and LBJ to pass The Civil RIghts Bill. LBJ knew it would cost him re-election and the Dems would lose the South. But he made that sacrifice and today Barack Obama is our president. If LBJ had only taken baby steps to protect his and Dems re-election, I’d hate to imagine where we’d be today.

bitohistory : Adlib I don’t care when it goes in effect. it has no affect on me. I want it to pass for other and the future.

Chernynkaya : Kes– it was a leftover form a conversation an couple days agao, but I think you got it anyway.

PatsyT : AdLib – I would prefer the bold approach though

kesmarn : Thanks, Patsy! That helps, after a blztldlksd day yesterday!

PatsyT : Adlib In a perfect world but that is not what they have

kesmarn : Cher! You are a funny lady!

AdLib : Cher – We’re on the same wavelength again! Agree about the public getting frustrated that HCR doesn’t immediately or in years make things substantially better.

kesmarn : b’ito!

Chernynkaya : Bito–you mean ya had to take a Rumsfeld?

PatsyT : Kes blither away we love you

kesmarn : Patsy, I’ll try to hang in a bit longer, but when I really start blithering, let me know….

AdLib : Patsy – I think that’s a path they’ve chosen, which is self-serving. They don’t want to take a risk that making things right today may mean they don’t get re-elected…eve n though they would be doing something profound for Americans today and forever.

Chernynkaya : The 2014 date seems insane and not beneficial for elections but many good features will take place sooner.

bitohistory : No,not tired or laughing (?) I had to go potty.

PatsyT : Night Kes

kesmarn : Cher, as Mom used to say: “Some people only learn the hard way.”

AdLib : Keep in mind though, even if HCR passes, as I’m more optimistic it will, much of it won’t begin until 2014. Will the public be upset in 2012 when rate hikes and other nasty practices continue despite HCR having passed?

Chernynkaya : This nation is too ignorant, so we pass w/o the PO and the mandates and prices makes us crazy and then we demand a PO after a few years of suffering and that’s how we legislate in the US of A.

PatsyT : Adlib sounds like they ultimately want to exaust all the options to get there

kesmarn : b’ito, see you later. I may have to bow out a little early, too. Am running on extremely short sleep. (Probably shows, too!)

AdLib : Tired of laughing?

Chernynkaya : Bito are you laughing or tired?

AdLib : Patsy – Exchanges have never proven historically to lower costs. I know that’s how Obama and Dems present it but it’s not proven through experience. There will eventually need to be a non-profit health care option because even with all that’s proposed, a for-profit system is unsustainable.

PatsyT : Kes don’t hold back

bitohistory : Please, continue :lol , i need to take a break.

PatsyT : Too bad Corporations you may just have to go out and pull yourselves up by your bootstraps !

AdLib : Cher – Thanks from the bottom of Cheney’s Hearty of No.

Chernynkaya : Oh, Bito– I know and Im cool with that.

kesmarn : In my work I’m seeing more and more patients who are desperate, sick, broke and fed-up. Not too many who are supportive of Repub delays. But then, I see a select demographic.

AdLib : bito – I don’t think it is worth losing all the benefits this bill will bring without the PO, I want to see it pass. My big problem with the bill was that the individual mandate, with no price controls, would allow Blue Cross to raise its premiums 70% and if that meant you can’t afford your mortgage and you didn’t pay, you are a criminal and will be fined thousands. Now, with Obama’s Fed price controls, it’s a bit better. However, the anti-abortion section, which would virtually outlaw abortion, must be removed.

PatsyT : I think that is what Rockefeller is going for there

PatsyT : How about the exchange part of this having a non for profit – - – like a PO

Chernynkaya : I just read Adlib’s Hearty of No!! OMG, that’s awful! Love it.

bitohistory : Cher, Patsy, It is the foot in the door for total HCR. That is what the Corps. are really afraid of.

kesmarn : I couldn’t put into words suitable for family viewing what I would like to do to Nelson and Baucus.

AdLib : Kes – Yes, Pelosi and The House are ready to go, she said pointedly that they are merely waiting for The Senate, the ball’s in their court. Pelosi has the Dems lined up, ready to go in the House. It is all up to the Dems in The Senate.

kesmarn : Did we lose j’avaz? Her dial-up might have faded away…

bitohistory : I tend to side with R;feller. The Po is not the end all to be all. There are other parts better and more important.

PatsyT : Born Again

kesmarn : AdLib, I like that!

AdLib : There is an interesting symbolism here, HCR looked dead, having been crucified by the GOP…then it comes back to life at Easter?

Chernynkaya : No PO You know, let’s say Obama is playing 18 dimensional chess. At this point I am willing– and grateful to get ANY HCR. And I was adamant about single payer! So look how cleverly he turned me around?

kesmarn : I’m assuming House will be easier than Senate?

PatsyT : They can bring back PO any time even after they pass this

AdLib : Kes – That’s what Harkin is saying, it will pass in The Senate by Easter.

kesmarn : I think c’lady had hopes of a PO last week…

PatsyT : On HRC I think there is no turning back . . . march on !

bitohistory : He also has his health costs paid by Hallibuton , thanks to the blood of innocents.

nellie : I do

AdLib : And…anyone think that a public option might really get slipped in?

Chernynkaya : It better and why so long (rhetorical)? Yeah, I guess.

kesmarn : Can I go out on a limb and say 50:50? By Easter?

AdLib : So, who here thinks the HCR bill will really pass by Easter?

kesmarn : “Oink,” sez Richard C.

PatsyT : Cher LOLOLOL

PatsyT : The 5 deferments part ought to be on billboards everywhere !

Chernynkaya : KES!

AdLib : Cheney’s heart attacks just prove his heart is as Republican as he is, it’s The Hearty of No.

Chernynkaya : He needs one final deferment.

kesmarn : Yes, Cher. Think of all the money Cheney has cost the taxpayers in health care. He’s a one-man earmark pork project. Literally. No more bacon, Dick!

PatsyT : Cher YES that guy can hardly hold his head up !

bitohistory : 5 heart attacks–5 deferments.

Chernynkaya : Agreed, Adlib.

PatsyT : Kes Way tooo funny !!!

Chernynkaya : Patsy– Matthews i think said that cheney proves how important good health care is!

kesmarn : And to think they were chanting “Run, Dick, run!” at CPAC. “Run to the nearest cardiologist,” more accurately. (Shame on me!)

bitohistory : Remember the corporate tea baggers read Alinsky. They get in the news . they make noise.

PatsyT : Seriously Chenny – - 5 heart attacks ?

AdLib : Cher – I think that some of those 50 Dems are stupid enough to think that not having to vote for HCR could be good for them in their election. The stupidity is, the public is clearly most upset that nothing is getting done by the Senate and not doing something, though it takes away a GOP attack ad, hurts worse. If they don’t pass something, as you say and I agree, there is no argument to re-elect Dems to retain power. Why? SO they can do nothing for another 6 years? I would of course vote Dem but many would simply vote against a worthless incumbent Dem, not thinking about putting in a destructive or Party of No Repub.

Chernynkaya : Bito keep reminding us! YES!!

PatsyT : Bito – that is almost to easy -they are laying all over the place -you have to step over them

kesmarn : Patsy, Lol, yeah, Obama’s second term could be 8 years after his first one and he’d still be in better shape than Cheney!

Chernynkaya : I saw Avatar last night. And despite the corporate media, I thought “well, they let this film be made. It is so anti-corporate and I loved that. I said to hubby, What if Cameron had used his talent to make a PRO-corporate film? (Shudder)

PatsyT : Bito You are so right !

bitohistory : Oh God, here I am doing a saul alinsky, STOP picking on the differences in your party, expose the problems of the opposition!!

kesmarn : Yes, Cher. I think he’d like to win again. But that “centered” part of him accepts whatever might come his way, it seems to me.

Chernynkaya : But Adlib, do you think more than 50 dems are afraid that HCR is bad for their re-election? I find that surprising. But there is no other explanation I guess.

AdLib : Cher – Yes, agreed. The lack of the proper response by the media around us, the acceptance that winning the game is what matters, not how you win, whether you lie, cheat or steal, those are the sociopathic corporate values that have helped de-sensitize the public to feeling outrage at being blatantly lied to. Come on, “death panels”, “kill Granny”, “socialism”, “gov’t takeover of the country”, the MSM KNOWS this is bullshit but they sit back rooting on the conflict and communicating to Americans that all that matters is who wins.

PatsyT : Hey, Obama could take time off and run again !

javaz : It’d be time. b’ito. to show our celebrity nipples!

kesmarn : Yes, b’ito, politicians need to be afraid of people who feel they’ve lost everything. “Freedom=nothin g left to lose.”

Chernynkaya : Kes– Obama has said so himself. he doesn’;t care about how long he is Prez. But you know, deep down, no one likes to be defeated.

PatsyT : Yes Bito !

bitohistory : j’avaz, if one feels hopless, then it i is time to think, Hell nothing left to lose. Time to get naked , raise hell, and protest in the town square. Make sure it gets on the telly!!!

kesmarn : I’ve said it before: what Osama bin Laden was unable to accomplish, Bush was.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– about MSM + lies– yes, I see that psychology. But I also say that we become desensitized when lies are made acceptable. and when there is no justice, it’s every man for himself and the social contract breaks down. That said, I am not for prosecuting. But we need to regain a sense of justice in US.

PatsyT : Could Bush have left a bigger mindfield ?

AdLib : Cher – The Dems CAN pass with 50 votes but so many of them frighten so easily. Scott Brown scared them because they have little vision. This is why, if Reid loses his election and a new Maj Leader takes his place who has balls, the fraidy cat Dems could be frightened into doing the right thing. I think Dick Durbin would be a likely candidate for leader, he would be a vast improvement.

kesmarn : Does anyone ever get the feeling that Obama is not terrribly concerned about being a one-termer?

javaz : Right, but remember, Obama is a politician, too.

Chernynkaya : Patsy tru. And my caps were accidental when I typed Afghanisan. It’s not always about who else there is w/voters. They just stay home.

AdLib : javaz – No, I’m not hopeless. I’m discouraged by the way things really are in this nation but keep in mind that despite the status quo and media opposed to it, we did rise up as a majority and elect Obama. He may not be accomplishing everything we would like but he is doing some important things. We need to take heart in that sometimes and imagine what things would be like under a Pres. McCain (or Pres. Palin!).

kesmarn : Yes, Cher, that’s another reason why b’ito’s concern with net neutrality is so important. When they control bandwidth, we’re SOL.

PatsyT : Obama is getting out of Iraq or at least it appears to look that way – Young people can appreciate that, no ?

javaz : Let me try again -don’t you feel hopeless in that there is nothing we can do?

Chernynkaya : RE the MSM– the only tool we have against them is the net. That’s why I am so jazzed to join with other blogs to fight scotus or whatever. The net is the last bastion of freedom of the press.

kesmarn : You got it, b’ito. The corporations control the message.

kesmarn : j’avaz, I actually feel a little more hopeful this week than I did last. C’lady’s words helped. And Obama seemed to give the green light to reconciliation.

PatsyT : Cher I know the Afghan thing I am not for that myself but what repub will offer anything else Ron Paul ??

bitohistory : AdLib , the MSM is corporate, don’t forget. They know that they can’ report.

javaz : nothing

Chernynkaya : So can someone explain why we can’t pass HCR with 50 votes?

javaz : Don’t you feel hopeless, in that there’s we can do?

AdLib : Cher – My theory is that people don’t seem outraged because the MSM does not express any outrage at deceit and lies. If you are in a group of people and none of them are alarmed at the crazy behavior of a person, you are less likely to be as well. This is established psychological principle, individuals adopt attitudes of those surrounding them.

Chernynkaya : Patsy– AFGHANISTAN is a big turnoff to young voters– more than hcr.

kesmarn : Right, AdLib, MSM fails us again. (I won’t love to dig up all the old Bush speeches about wMD and how “sound” the economy was and play ‘em over and over today.

Chernynkaya : Adlib– we just posted almost the same thought there.

PatsyT : Obama has to go toward his base because they will come out of the woodwork for him bigtime– the middle – not so much -the obama base is what should be growing right now all of the young people new voters every year and many others (older voters) gone

AdLib : Kes – What pisses me off at the MSM, not talking about Rachel and KO, but they report this bullshit from Boner and others without ever putting it in context with what they’ve said before that contradicts them. They are freely promoting lies and deception without comment. That is not journalism.

Chernynkaya : aDLIB– “the GOP will say anything…” And what scares me is, it doesn;t seem to matter that they are exposed as liars! Nobody seems as outraged as they should be! If this continues they can get away with anything. Nobody being prosecuted for Iraq/torture sets a very bad example and standard for betraying the public and the law.

bitohistory : Ins. Companies. $1.24 -a day- million on lobbyists , can’t be wrong! They want their pay off

AdLib : bito – It WILL be 150% within a year or so. They raise rates multiple times in a year, 70% is just one raise. Here is a fact that the Repubs refuse to face…at this rate, the math is very simple, HC will not be affordable for the majority of Americans within the next few years if HCR is not passed. How do these assholes think Americans can survive 70% rate hikes each year forever?

javaz : Oh God, we live in such a red state, and Arizonans love McCain, and worse, love Sheriff Joe. JD is a corrupt former senator … Garcia is the Dem running from Tuscon, but he doesn’t get any air time

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib. And Boehner! First he says the HCR bill is too huge (1990 pages!!), then the Obama plan is too small (fewer pages than a comic book). HUH?

bitohistory : j’avz, no I didn’t see that. But JD has Orly Taintz!

Chernynkaya : Nellie as a meditator, during the campaign, before an important event i actually saw him center himself many times.

AdLib : Kes – The GOP will say anything, that is so obvious and promoted by them now. All the HCR things they supported months ago, they oppose now because they think it helps them politically. Obama is weak if he is thoughtful or patient. And yet he is a dangerous socialist taking over our country. Which is it, loonies?

kesmarn : I almost want to thank the insurance companies for raising their rates. They sure are helping the cause of reform.

bitohistory : Adlib, I feel for the peeps in Cal, but i am glad they did. why not 150%?

Chernynkaya : AdLib, they will pass HCR. It is unthinkable that they don’t . why not? What’s the problem? I am missing something.

nellie : Cher, I think the president has done a lot of soul searching in his lifetime. People like that are usually very zen.

javaz : B’ito, did you notice how the AZ media made McCain as the winner?

kesmarn : Right, Cher. It’s amazing, though, how often righties interpret “peace-maker” with “weakling.” Aggravating.

PatsyT : Bito I think they must have a mind set. My Husband and I have a small business so I can speak on this and say this (current HC) is out of control and reform is a must I would be happy to show them our ##

AdLib : So, will they really pass HCR?

Chernynkaya : Kes– yep. But really, I think that’s his nature. He might have been born that way, and his background as an outsider makes him a people pleaser and a peace maker– in a good way.

bitohistory : I think the senate can handle Mccain more than JD. he i an Idiot.

AdLib : Cher – I would have to be sedated so I wouldn’t yell at that sorry sack of white haired corporately owned men posing as GOP Senators.

kesmarn : Cher, I wonder if Obama practiced by spending huge amounts of time with large groups of pre-schoolers… .?

AdLib : And announced today, maybe not coincidentally after the HC Summit, Blue Cross announced plans to raise premiums in CA by up to 70%.

nellie : Obama is patient — but he gets his licks in.

bitohistory : patsy, i listen (for a few minutes0 to a RW small buis. show. they are against the HCR. WHY?

javaz : Did you not think that the Arizona media declared McCain the winner and pushed his Maverick image?

Chernynkaya : Adlib– that’s what I was thinking too– I could NEVER behave the way he did, unless I was in a clinical setting as a paid psychiatrist.

kesmarn : I hear a lot of Repubs whining that the recovery is slow because “nobody knows what’s going to happen.” Don’t they realize what a huge stabilizer passing HCR will be?

PatsyT : By junk I mean what we have now

nellie : Health care will pass

Chernynkaya : All I know is, if the Dems can’t pass reconciliation– – that’s only 50 votes, then they may deserve to lose big in ‘10 and ‘12.

PatsyT : I wish that they had brought out how important the economic side of this is -How can any small business get started with this junk

bitohistory : I think it was more for the senste and house than the rank and file. they vote the way they vote. I can’t understand them.

nellie : Yep. I think this was really for conservative voters who might be swayed by right wing talking points.

AdLib : Cher – I am physically and intellectually incapable of practicing the restraint and discipline Obama di. He is a remarkable man.

javaz : B’ito, didn’t you think that the Arizona news proclaimed McCain the winner?

AdLib : nellie – Exactly! This was insurance against the attacks that will definitely come from the Right that they didn’t try bipartisanship and used “the nuclear option”…which Repubs used to define proudly as killing the filibuster but now it means just passing legislation.

kesmarn : Patsy, Weiner is terrific. “Top Dog”?

Chernynkaya : Also, I honestly think Obama has the patience of a saint.

PatsyT : AdLib that McCain moment was priceless !

kesmarn : Hey, nellie! I think you’re right. It was a sort of “show and tell” exercise?

nellie : I think this was the president’s way of showing the country why health care is going to pass via reconciliation.

Chernynkaya : I think if passed HCR will be the senate version most closely.

PatsyT : I love Anthony Weiner I wish he was at that summit

AdLib : I loved the part where McCain was whimpering about FL getting a special deal then when Obama said, “Good point,” McCain was gobsmacked and his face stripped gears. That was hilarious!

Chernynkaya : I was not that enthralled with the summit because i think the Reps got a boost merely for not pissing themselves in public. But I do think it signaled the passage of HVR.

kesmarn : Hey, b’ito, good to see you here.

kesmarn : For what it’s worth, I got one of those mass email things from H. Reid. He said: “HCR will pass.”

AdLib : Hey bito!

PatsyT : Hey bito !

bitohistory : Hey, k’es, and all.

AdLib : LET’S BEGIN! THIS WEEK’S HEALTH CARE SUMMIT WAS VERY INTERESTING TO WATCH AND VERY AMUSING AT TIMES. WHAT WERE YOUR FAVORITE PARTS? WITH THIS HURDLE OVER, PRES. OBAMA AND THE DEMS HAVE SHOWN THE REPUBS TO BE IMPOSSIBLE TO WORK WITH AND SEEM CONFIDENT ABOUT ACCOMPLISHING HCR THROUGH RECONCILIATION. DOES THIS MAKE YOU MORE OPTIMISTIC THAT HCR WILL PASS? IF SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL LOOK LIKE?

PatsyT : Troll busters is one of a kind

kesmarn : I saw you slip in the side door there, b’ito!

Chernynkaya : Nellie did most and i think it is unique among all sites!! Thanks tho, patsy.

PatsyT : Hey Cher I have to say it quick that the Troll Busters is awesome yo uand Nellie and anyone else that is on that Thank You I have directed many folks there !

Chernynkaya : Back attcha, J!

javaz : Hiya Cher!!! One of my favorite Planeteers!

kesmarn : Hey, Cher!

AdLib : Hey Cher!

kesmarn : Yes…any and all contributions gratefully accepted. Well, beer might be a problem, however…

Chernynkaya : Hi Y’all!

PatsyT : Only Sam Adams sorry

AdLib : Anyone got a bit of Kahlua for Kes’ cup of tea?

PatsyT : Kes, me too, do not feel guilty -Life is busy for us all.

kesmarn : Hey, Patsy! (feeling guilty, but still working on education article here…slowly… )

AdLib : Hi Patsy!

javaz : hi patsy!

AdLib : It’s a secret, javaz! Not really.

PatsyT : Hey Everybody !

kesmarn : Assam tea tonight. And nothing interesting to put in it. Sigh.

javaz : Hi kes!

AdLib : Hope you’ve got a warm mug of cocoa, Kesmarn.

javaz : what is the topic tonight?

kesmarn : Hey, j’avaz and AdLib, from the eternally snowy midwest.

AdLib : Take 2: “Hey javaz!

javaz : Hi

AdLib : Welcome to tonight’s edition of Vox Populi! Please say hi when you arrive!

AdLib : Yes, we’re over at the post now, come on over and feel free to copy and paste anything here that you think people may have missed. Here’s the link: «link»

javaz : Are we continuing the conversation on the Vox Populi or will I be talking to myself? I’m wound up now, and believe me, I never stay up this late, but the racist bigots and corruption of my state, well, I’ve got to go back to the psychedelic music thread to wind back down.

AdLib : Great javaz, we need to get this story out as much as we can. It’s outrageous!

AdLib : Go get ‘em. CL! Patsy, just responded to your comment on the post, will see you and everyone else over there!

kesmarn : Thanks again, c’lady. If you need my email, AdLib has it!

choicelady : kes – I[‘ll work on Toledo links!

kesmarn : Good night, c’lady. Thanks!

javaz : Okay, I will work on it, AdLib.

choicelady : Good night all. I’m off tomorrow to teach about single payer and federal health care to militant Methodists. I know that seems a contradiction, but there you are. Good night!

PatsyT : See you all over there or if not nighty night..

AdLib : We need an article on this, javaz.

javaz : I’m wound up, because I hate bigots.

kesmarn : Awww. Thanks so much, c’lady but (don’t tell anyone)I’m closer to Toledo….ish…

javaz : Are we now going to the main page Vox Populi thing?

AdLib : CL – You are seriously networked, very cool!

choicelady : javaz – it’s a nightmare for you all. Unbelievable!

javaz : Oh, good night and now I’m all wound up again, and maybe that’s my mission in life is to see the end of the bigotry.

AdLib : I saw that PBS segment on it and a 60 Minutes segment. But that’s not enough.

choicelady : kes – You’re in Cleveland? If I have that right, begin with the Unitarian church in Shaker Heights. Dan Budd is the minister and a good guy. He’s bound to have some inkling of the problem and know what community groups are working on it. Trinity Episcopal church on Euclid (2300 Euclid) has a huge community organizing project, Agape Campus community Development. See www,campus-agape .org. I think the Dean of the cathedral, Rev. Tracey Lind, heads it all, but I don’t know the more direct activists. Worth calling to find someone to ask. They are VERY prominent in economic and social justice so would be concerned about the police brutality!

javaz : PBS NOW did a segment but did it do any good? Sheriff Joe and his cronies are under a Federal Grand Jury investigation as we speak, but honest to God, AdLib, you would not believe it.

AdLib : What major film?

PatsyT : AdLib docu yes and a major film

AdLib : GUESS IT’S ABOUT THAT TIME TO END TONIGHT’S SESSION OF VOX POPULI. THANKS SO MUCH TO EVERYONE FOR MAKING THIS ANOTHER VALUABLE AND ENLIGHTENING EXCHANGE. THE CHAT CONTINUES AT THE RELATED POST, CLICK THE LINK HERE TO GO THERE: «link»

AdLib : javaz – has anyone tried to make a documentary about this?

kesmarn : Good night, b’ito! Sweet dreams.

PatsyT : Nighty Night Bito

javaz : Night, B’ito.

kesmarn : I’ll be relieved when/if he’s out of office, though, AdLib.

Khirad : Night!

AdLib : Night!

javaz : Or women in Sheriff Joe’s tent cities that are pregnant, that Sheriff Joe can prevent women from getting an abortion, if they so desire? And if the women come to term and go into labor that Sheriff Joe’s deputies keep the women shackled, because they are flight risks don’t you know, and even when the doctors ask the deputies to take the cuffs off during labor and during birth, that they unshackle their legs, but keep them chained to the bed? This is the shit Mexicans live with in this state, and it just makes me sick.

bitohistory : Good night all! Be kind. Peace

AdLib : bito – We beleave in edjumacation.

AdLib : Kes – Glad to hear it. I learned along the way, you’d be surprised how responsive your reps are when you aggressively pursue them.

bitohistory : To finish! You people “larn” me so much, reminds me of skool.

PatsyT : Bito I appreciate all that you do -You are an inspiration.

kesmarn : “Back atcha” b’ito. Are you taking your leave?

Khirad : And you too bito.

AdLib : Hope you’re feeling well, Bito!

Khirad : LOL Kes. Plenty of Tejano! I hear it in my sleep sometimes! I like the idea of confusing the pigs (no offense to good cops).

kesmarn : AdLib, at least the Fed indictment came down after I had the bad experience, so I felt a little vindicated. The trial is being delayed time after time, though.

bitohistory : I want to thank everyone for a great time and your friendship.

kesmarn : j’avaz, I would be blastin’ Tejano music from my car, windows down, with my silly blonde head out the window, just to confound ‘em.

AdLib : kes – state or even national rep would work, they need to know that you have a connection to someone who could cause them a lot of trouble and if they have so much local power, you need someone on state or national level.

javaz : In Arizona, if you are brown, speak Spanish or with a Mexican accent and listen to Mexican music that legally the cops can stop you and demand papers?

choicelady : javaz – I will. It’s not the only time. I have never been seriously harmed, but I’ve lost FIVE friends and acquaintances to death by RW hit people. If someone as ordinary as I can have that occur, you know something is seriously, dangerously wrong.

Khirad : Didn’t ring a bell with me either bito.

AdLib : Patsy – Moyers should be online by tonight. He had an amazing episode last week which I posted links to in an article, did it last Friday night. I always tivo him, will watch it later.

bitohistory : Idon’t think so. Khirad?

kesmarn : Everyone in city govt seems terrified of him. And even the media are intimidated. I didn’t think about the State rep, though, AdLib.

javaz : B’ito, do you have Arriba’s Mexican Restaurant down there? Well, Sheriff Joe just raided one and arrested all of their employees, and we’ve yet to learn how many “illegals” he got from that one.

AdLib : Kes – did you consider contacting your local city council person or state assembly person?

PatsyT : Say kinda OT but Bill Moyers has on judicial elections and how the new BIG $$$ is going to affect their elections… I think it will be on line tomorrow maybe ?

choicelady : javaz – I think that article would be amazing. I think we don’t realize how much the simmering hate or at least resentment from the Civil Rights era has found voice and viciousness once again. I think your comparison would be eye-opening. We are back to needing a civil rights renewal, and this would be a wake up call!

kesmarn : c’lady, my PERSONAL corrupt sheriff is in Ohio, so if you have any Ohio contacts, I’d appreciate it! (Apparently, their numbers are legion!)

Khirad : I regret not going more now. Zack de la Rocha was at the march.

kesmarn : C’lady, Khirad, thanks for your concern and kind thoughts. I figure, I’m still here, so there must be some reason for it!

bitohistory : do’t worry, j’avaz! I’ll smite them with my cane. (Do I need a staff)

choicelady : kes – he’s brave AND he has a wicked sense of humor, too! He’s just a delight. Tell him his ally in CA whom he met once in New Orleans recommended you call. He will help you find people in other parts of AZ. It’s not ALL like that!

javaz : CL, you’ve written before about your run-ins with Operation Rescue and I think that is worthy of an article, if you could.

choicelady : javaz, kes – I have been in the same postion, so I want you safe. You need more allies, and the churches that have weighed in on the side of justice, against this sheriff and other thugs can help you be safe. Surround yourself with others who are on your side. Strength in numbers! It helps to have people who “get it” standing with you or just there to talk. Be safe, and be well!

Khirad : Oh yeah, kes, how petty and ‘evil’ that seems.

kesmarn : j’avaz, do write. It may feel “local” to you, but this is a cautionary tale for the rest of the nation!

Khirad : FWIW ours were in the Ronstadt march, too. «link»

bitohistory : C’Lady, I heard the Tucson Interfaith Council went up too. Good people

AdLib : Poor, tired huddled WHITE masses yearning to brethe free.

javaz : Maybe I should write an article? Do you think? Something that compares Arizona to 1950’s Alabama? I’ve not done that because it seems localized, but do you all think that I should write it?

PatsyT : What ever happened to give me your poor ….

AdLib : Indeed!

kesmarn : Rev. Flaaten must be one brave person, c’lady!

AdLib : CL – Thanks for providing that info, hope our AZ members call on her.

javaz : You really would not believe it.

choicelady : OK folks in AZ, FWIW – the Arizona Ecumenical Council is headed by a great guy, Rev. Jan Flaaten. They are IN the fight on immigration reform etc. They are at 4423 N. 24th St.#750, Phoenix, 85016. Phone -602-468-3818. Seriously call them and talk this out. You need allies, and Jan can give them to you and tell you what strategies they’re using. They were in the march with Ronstadt I believe.

javaz : I could post you links, AdLib, about Sheriff Joe and the AG of Maricopa County that go after elected reps from the county, the mayor of Phoenix, and judges and council people that have criticized him.

kesmarn : My ex-son in law was abusive and when I reported it, the you-know-what hit the fan. He had connections and it was not pretty.

AdLib : AZ sounds like a South American country!

Khirad : I’m scared just imagining it, kes.

AdLib : javaz, it is very upsetting and as CL mentioned, when a small group holds so much power, it goes against everything America is about.

kesmarn : Khirad, I got on the wrong side of one of his cronies and you can hardly believe the misery I endured for about 6 months.

javaz : Oh, my typing is getting bad, but I’m rarely up this late, yet I am fired up again now. I cannot tolerate bigots.

Khirad : I remember that, kes.

javaz : You would not believe the corruption, yet they keep on voting Sheriff Joe in because they racist bigots and hate Mexicans.

AdLib : javaz – you’re safe here, no one can get any personal info from seeing your username.

PatsyT : Bito You are the coolest

kesmarn : j’avaz, our county sheriff has been indicted by the Feds for “allegedly” covering up a jail house murder. While he awaits trial, he still has his job! And still carries a gun!

bitohistory : Kh, Patsy..Wait a sec. I’m here too lol

AdLib : javaz, decades ago, CA and L.A. were very corrupt. Ever see Chinatown? Sounds like AZ today.

javaz : I’ve been following Sheriff Joe for years and well, it even scares me to write about him here, because he and the AG of Maricopa County have long tentacles.

PatsyT : Kh yes you are one of cool ones for sure..

choicelady : javaz – I hear you. I grew up in a mob-dominated town, and it was scary, not different at all from Bull Conner and now this. Any place a handful of people run the society for themselves and by themselves, reform and even just easing corruption is not only hard but dangerous!

Khirad : No Patsy. Maybe that’s ’cause I’m so cool.

kesmarn : Thanks for the absolution, c’lady!

bitohistory : j’vaz can write it . She has many links and stories

javaz : This truly is like living in Alabama in the 50’s and yet Sheriff Joe literally gets away with murder, and I mean literally. He’s under a grand jury investigation now by the FEDS, but only one person has the nerve to testify against him, and that person even fears for their life, and I am serious about this. The Feds have offered the woman protection for turning. It’s unreal.

PatsyT : Kh I thought you ere CA

choicelady : Oh kes – I KNOW that! You can’t go to jail for what you’re thinking about righteous come-around! The difference between you and him is that you never WOULD do harm. He would and did. Makes you a vastly better person! So you’re allowed a little ‘poetic license’!

Khirad : We Arizonans should write one. There’s enough of us here!

kesmarn : That’s a great idea, AdLib!

AdLib : bito, will do! We need a comprehensive article on The Planet about AZ.

choicelady : javaz – I did read about that. Now that the sheriff knows she’s really one of “them” he probably wants nothing better than to whomp her with his nightstick. AZ is so scary! I have family and friends there. Damn.

kesmarn : c’lady! Just realized how unprofessional that sounded.Just kidding, folks. I treat my patients well….even the ones like Ronnie!

bitohistory : AdLib try that site “Blog for AZ”

Khirad : Yes, she is.

javaz : Ronstadt is a Tucson native.

javaz : Linda Ronstadt led a march in January, but Sheriff Joe blasted her music louder and his deputies charged the group.

choicelady : kes – wish you HAD been his nurse. Taste of his own medicine and all.

PatsyT : Javaz I have seen some of your posts being that you are next door and all I pay Attention

AdLib : I’ve seen some but I have missed some, clearly. I’m really upset about this.

choicelady : We are cutting off all legal immigrants including the people who just got here from relocation camps following VIETNAM. They helped us in that war. We’re screwing them over now. One Cambodian woman noted that at age 76, if the Guv cuts her income out, “All you leave me is to die.” And I have NO idea what those Republicans think about all this. They seem simply to pay NO attention. At ALL.

javaz : God, them cameras, Khirad, that’s another thing

javaz : It is close to a fascist state, Adlib, I guess you’ve missed all my posts about it in the OT/TO section.

Khirad : cameras, that is.

AdLib : Well, we need a protest in AZ to open some eyes nationally about what’s going on!

Khirad : Way too reaching on the police. Is this the same state where people were in a furor over traffic stop lights?

kesmarn : c’lady, if I’d been Ronnie’s home care nurse he would have gotten ketchup t.i.d. (3Xday) at every meal!

javaz : God, what comes around goes around, and we in AZ are going back to the 50’s.

bitohistory : Ad Lib, Pictuee all of the country with the AZ leg. That is what the GOOPERs want!

AdLib : javaz, AZ sounds like a fascist state. Corporate control and decimation of rights for the people.

kesmarn : b’ito, thank God they’ve got decent docs there! I suppose the Sheriff Joe types would just hand people a pint o’ whiskey and a bullet to bite on and send ‘em off to the desert. Compassion!

PatsyT : Some schools have a rep the kids all seem to know

choicelady : kes – I remember the Ronnie veggie excuse. Petty cheapo bastard.

Khirad : Yes bito, they do, so I hear. All the banners near campus tell me all the innovations they’ve done!

javaz : Oh, and here’s another one, the governor just signed a bill that allows the police to stop anyone for no cause on the grounds that the cop might think is illegal. Think about how reaching that is, in that you get a macho cop that has the right to stop a person because he thinks he’s gay or whatever, and they can demand YOUR PAPERS, and if you cannot give the proper papers, they can arrest you!

bitohistory : U of A has a good Med school. (it’s all about my problems LOL)

AdLib : Seriously, what is the plan of these Repubs? Like the banks with the economic crash, squeeze all you can out and pocket what you can before it all collapses?

PatsyT : ASU

kesmarn : j’avaz, talk about feeling trapped!

Khirad : UofA or ASU? UofA isn’t really that bad.

javaz : How can we move? Who would buy our houses? The state is losing so many people and houses are selling where we live, but the owners are taking huge losses. We can’t afford to move.

PatsyT : My Daughter & her friends think U of A is a joke school

bitohistory : No, Below the Gila it isn’t as RED.

AdLib : escrib – Heh, the UN? No “feriners” allowed in a Repblican state!

kesmarn : c’lady, that’s what Ronnie Raygun said!

escribacat : Adlib, The UN will come in and help with failed states.

choicelady : kes- I remember. Ketchup makes a veggie – if you drink about a pint of it…

bitohistory : Most grads leave Uof A now , AdLib. Leave the state for a job.

javaz : AdLib, you would not believe it, you really wouldn’t, plus we have Sheriff Joe and God help us.

AdLib : CL – So what is the plan after a state collapses? No schools, safety net…what do the Repubs do then? Repeal anti-slavery laws?

Khirad : Me and Bito are in the People’s Republic del Tucson. I feel okay. Can’t speak for Bito.

choicelady : bito – how could I have forgotten? And maybe chopped onion ya think?

kesmarn : Ketchup is a vegetable, b’ito. That makes it balanced.

javaz : Oh, and the latest one is they are going to stop young payment for young women to donate their eggs for IVF, yet they still pay men for sperm donations.

choicelady : Patsy – you are indeed correct! Friends inside the legislature, staffers, tell us that if we heard what they hear from the Reeps about letting the state die, who cares, WE would die. But we can see it – AZ is the gold standard for Grover Norquist’s wet dream, and CA is on its way.

Khirad : Blog for AZ is good. I have one or two, I think. We may be getting provencial here, but it is a signal of what could happen to you! A warning not to let Repubs in control!

bitohistory : Did I forget? Lots of ketchup!

AdLib : Sounds to me like AZ is going to be losing a lot of college grads to other states. Why stay there? WHy consider raising a family there?

kesmarn : Do you Arizona libs feel safe there? Seriously. I worry.

escribacat : Arizona sounds scary!!!

PatsyT : CL the CA state minority would like to make Ca like AZ

Khirad : Approval ratings for Repubs? – But, it’s the Dems fault!

choicelady : bito – yes, that’s what my mother would have done. Week old bread, dog food, eggs, milk. Yum.

bitohistory : I will put up a couple of links later. BLOG FOR AZ is one

Khirad : javaz, that was a succinct list of what ails Arizona. I applaud you for condensing it!

AdLib : javaz – AZ is heading back into the 19th century! And the public supports all of this? WHat are the approval ratings like for the Repubs there?

choicelady : javaz – beyond words, my dear friend. Beyond words. I can’t imagine it. Even CA is not that mean. I don’t know what to say.

bitohistory : C’Lady week old heals work. Just like Micky-d’s

AdLib : Khirad – it’s up to the group to decide but I think it should be a physical protest that’s clever and visual, alert the media et al, video tape it and put it on YouTube.

javaz : Yep, where do we start to explain Adlib – except for saying that the Republican Governor has signed 4 pieces of legislation from the Republican controlled legislature that lowers corporate taxes by 26%, and eliminates their property taxes, while we lose in education, hospice care, closing of rest areas, state parks, mental hospitals, juvenile detention centers, libraries, police, fire fighters – we are in crisis – and what can we do about it? Oh, we can all pack heat concealed now and shoot off fireworks and wait 6 months for divorce and place the 10 commandments on our captitol.

choicelady : bito – don’t you need bread crumbs as binder with the dog food and eggs? Barky Burgers.

AdLib : Khirad – loved the link – very funny and true!

kesmarn : c’lady, then you have your doggy designer clothes and hair ribbons, too! Not to mention doggy spas. Twilight Zone…

choicelady : javaz – this is horrid beyond belief. I hate to say it, but any state that repeatedly re-elects McC and Kyl has so lost touch with basics that I guess I’m not surprised. The John Wayne mentality – rugged individualism. It’s just awful to read!

Khirad : And oh, yeah is this protest fo’real or YouTube? Did we decide that?

kesmarn : b’ito, they are heartless SOBs.

Khirad : This is Arizona’s problem: «link»

AdLib : Khirad – We’re taking care of the organizational things first, a name, a mission statement, a clear and targeted agenda. Then, we just go ahead and plan our first protest!

choicelady : kes – my brother used to eat them. They ARE nutritious. Do you know how warped our society is? There is an entire SEC industrial designation of “pet snacks”. PET SNACKS???? OK – I do buy them, but we can’t even FEED people, yet pets have SNACKS????

bitohistory : k’es medicaid is next in AZ.

PatsyT : they drive around and around and so on and so on

PatsyT : You know we see lots of Zonnies (my brother gave them that name) here in So Cal near the beach

choicelady : The idea that you generate jobs by cutting wages and taxes for the rich is SO OLD I can’t believe they put it out with a straight face. “Rising tides lift all boats?” Tides lift from BELOW, not from above. NO recovery ever started or succeeded from the top. Over the past 8 years of massive tax cuts – not ONE new job was generated. Not one. So put that in your hosepipe and SUCK on it, you slimy corporate liars!

bitohistory : Dog food, eggs and milk. soak. make in to patties. BURGERS!!

kesmarn : b’ito, I mentioned that hospice thing here last week and people were stunned and appalled.

Khirad : Where do we start, AdLib?

javaz : We’re having a meltdown here in AZ, and how do we stop it?

AdLib : What is going on in AZ? Why are they so regressive?

Khirad : Yes on hospice cuts. Arizona is willing to sell gov’t buildings and gut the state so be it.

bitohistory : k’es, thats right about Hospice.

kesmarn : I’m gonna buy me some MilkBones, and I don’t even have a dog. But in my part of the country, a Milk Bone is a tasty dinner for the family!

AdLib : Hey…Walmart would be a great target for a protest against corporations. We could come up with something funny for that. They would be able to throw us off the property though since they’re set back from city streets but as long as we got the video!

javaz : Arizona is the 21st century 1950’s Alabama and I do not know how to stop it from happening,

choicelady : ADLib – thank you, thank you, but that was the BEST FUN I ever had! The union guys were just great, and they trusted my judgement and stood their ground, and Henry caved! Whee!

Khirad : That’s too much of a drop, in the AZ legislation. I understand where they’re coming from, and I remember this being discussed for a while, but it’s just ageist – though I know the argument for it. A minimum wage is that – minimum wage.

kesmarn : j’avaz, didn’t you also note that AZ has cut funding for hospice care for people on Medicaid, also?

PatsyT : Milk Bones YES Choice I am proud of you !!!

escribacat : Ditto CL you ROCK!

AdLib : CL – YOU ROCK!!!

bitohistory : Saw that j’avaz. BS, a-holes (sorry)

choicelady : javaz – it’s my life. I taught “corporate power” for union people at Cornell U’s labor program for 15 years. I watched all that fall apart under us all. I did save ONE plant – the Milkbone dog biscuit plant! I led the union folks in a worker ownership offer against KKR/Nabisco, and the corporation backed down!!! It’s still operating 20 years later. I beat the S*** out of Henry Kravitz! (Not that he knows it.)

AdLib : My 6 year old daughter already knows that Walmart is bad because they ruin people’s stores.

javaz : Yep, there is legislation in the works that lowers minimum wage for 7.46/hr down to 5.44/hr for 22 years old and younger.

kesmarn : Yes,AdLib, and the one thing we do know is that rust belt workers are nothing if not motivated!

PatsyT : Kh that is the message and they are not getting it !

Khirad : Yay @ Wal-Mart.

bitohistory : Obama has gone to the world trade court for the fist time in many years. And won!!

AdLib : kes – good point. I would think though that retraining for specific manufacturing jobs in the green sector could be funded which would be a boost in many directions. They may not be at the top of the food chain but they would have solid jobs from which they could advance.

kesmarn : j’avaz! WHAT?

Khirad : How can teabaggers not understand keeping jobs American? I think they would say they do, but don’t understand that’s not in their benefator’s interests. It’s just maddening. American Jobs. How hard of a message is that?

javaz : B’ito, what do you think about the legislation in AZ that will lower the minimum wage for people 22 years old and younger down to 5.44 per hour? That’s not right.

kesmarn : b’ito, yaaaaay! Wal-Mart sucks!

bitohistory : Wal-Mart lost last quarter. First time!

AdLib : CL – What we need is a tax system than penalizes companies who close factories in the U.S. and benefits those that stay. And hammers and corporation that bases itself offshore.

PatsyT : Youngstown? that is sad I remember it as thriving

choicelady : AdLib – I think Obama wants to revitalize conventional industries, too. We need iron, steel, aluminum, etc. along with windmills etc. We need durable consumer goods back – washers, dryers, refrigerators. This is the stuff we cannot keep losing. Now agriculture is threatened – and if we become a food IMPORTER we are cooked.

kesmarn : AdLib, problem is a lot of green tech manufacturing requires a pretty well educated work force. We have some of that, but the schools are in such horrible shape…not sure if we could supply the workers they need.

javaz : Choicelady, is that from Forbes?

PatsyT : Wow I could tell you stories of the east side of Cleveland

choicelady : Youngstown, Lackawanna, Homestead, Gary (they use Gary to measure the rate of decay of urban settings if people disappeared from earth), Detroit, Flint. Pawtucket, Central Falls, Woonsocket. Southern mill towns. Midwestern capital goods cities. New England textiles. All shot to hell. And now Toyota will close its plant – that got stimulus money – so CA is next. It will kill a huge part of the Bay Area, and we will follow suit. STOP PLANT CLOSINGS!

AdLib : kes – what needs to happen is to have Obama finance companies to manufacture green technologies in the rust belt, there is a huge amount of manpower familiar with manufacturing, it would be a win all the way around.

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib. The nation’s best kept dirty little secret. A wretched third world environment hidden in plain sight.

javaz : AdLib, I am lucky to be here doing this right now, so am not going to do that yet, but will do it later.

escribacat : Adlib, Kes…very true. I’ve heard it’s really bad and I’ve seen these houses being given away but haven’t really absorbed how bad it really is and how long it’s been getting worse

bitohistory : CREDO has an alert on Cheney. any one get it?

AdLib : kes – it really is an untold story in the sense that most Americans have no awareness that it’s happening.

javaz : Patsy, I cannot believe that the MSM puts on Liz Cheney or McCain’s daughter, like them kids know anything about politics.

Khirad : That theme music leading Cheney in was epic.

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib, miles of vacant, abandoned homes. Many street people. Hunger. Mental illness. Despair.

AdLib : javaz – right click the link and select “copy link location” then you can paste it in your browser.

AdLib : kes – Michael Moore revisited Flint, Michigan in Capitalism a Love Story…it’s hard to believe that its WORSE than in Roger and Me.

PatsyT : I can’t believe they put Cheney on … anywhere ..

Khirad : Link worked for me. Just did it.

escribacat : Okay I will post in a comment

javaz : Damn, e’cat, your links aren’t working here, but you can do it once this is done.

AdLib : Thanks for the link, escrib! Nothing I can do though, Boxer and Feinstein are already on board.

kesmarn : Yes, AdLib, Flint, Detroit, Toledo all in truly abysmal shape. You can hardly believe it, till you see it.

escribacat : okay fine!

PatsyT : Cleveland does benefit greatly from Cleveland Clinic and the amazing cultural center that was put there decades ago

escribacat : «link»

escribacat : Sorry, don’t know how that link thing happened. Meant to post this:

choicelady : bito – some parts of the country today are almost that bad. It’s very uneven. We have a quadrupled homeless population AND an increase in upscale restaurants. We see such pockets of real misery – AND more Beamers. Very uneven within communities much less across different regions. In the 30s Blacks said they did not know there WAS a Depression. Who could tell the difference?

javaz : Cheney is an ass, and people dislike him, and we’ve all got to ignore all the crap from the MSM and Internet. Obama still offers HOPE and change, and I truly believe that Americans for the most part see that Obama is trying to work with the GOP. The MSM and the GOP underestimate the intelligence of Americans.

AdLib : bito, that was a harsh life back then, indeed. In the rust belt though, it’s getting pretty bad.

escribacat : «link»

kesmarn : I’ve seen some of that, Patsy. (Took a friend to Cleveland Clinic.) Not changes for the better, either, huh?

PatsyT : Kes I grew up in Cleveland and just went back for a visit … wow big changes

escribacat : Bito — yep. Most of us don’t have a clue what it’s like to go hungry or really suffer for the basic necessities.

Khirad : Yes, Obama is still personally popular, and he can still use that to his advantage.

bitohistory : Pull a wagon 10 miles for chairty food, like my grandmother, then tell me how bad it is

AdLib : Kes – This is what many don’t see. They’re not aware of how bad it is in some parts of this country, such as yours.

javaz : Obama is very popular, forget the polls. People like him, they truly like him, because face it, the man is cool. The polls on whatever show different when it comes to where the country’s going, but Obama is very popular and Americans do like him. Cheney predicted that Obama would be a one-term prez, but Cheney is still the most unpopular VP, and hell, even GW is ranking higher now.

kesmarn : Yes Patsy and e’cat. Minorities communities especially are in truly dire straits here.

choicelady : kes – indeed. I lived there for 16 years, and I know the whole NE quarter. I love the people, documented a lot of the industry at one point, and did oral histories, community revitalization – and I am seeing the FIRST hope in Obama’s emphasis on re-industrializa tion. This nation threw all those good people away. Time to bring ‘em back. Or at least their kids. BTW – stop Whirlpool from going to Mexico. Damn their eyes.

Khirad : Ah, but manufacturing won’t come back ’cause of those “evil unions” and Gubmint takeovers.

AdLib : CL, you are a gem, thanks for the kind words for all here. I think The Planet has enormous value as a citizen’s think tank, with all the amazing minds and perspectives here, but it’s important to take the next step into activism, to putting the great ideas into action. I’m very excited about our moving closer to that realization.

kesmarn : c’lady, thanks for your kind words. It’s nice to feel that your sorta our “ambassador” out there.

PatsyT : Kes that is where Manufacturing need to make a come back

escribacat : Kes, that is true. You can buy a house for $12K in some places

Khirad : Housing foreclosures are still horrible in AZ, too.

kesmarn : Not to be the party-pooper, but i have to say things are pretty bad in the rust belt. Actually really bad, to be honest.

Khirad : No, e’cat, but that’s what I’m talking about.

choicelady : Adlib and all – this blog is hugely important. I have changed messages because of YOU. I have refined ideas because of YOU. I send my folks out to do grassroots advocacy, and I often re-write talking points because of all of YOU. Do NOT underestimate how important you all are, to me and to the world.

escribacat : Kh, have you read Dreams of My Father?

javaz : AdLib, Obama is not nor has he ever been the problem, imo.

AdLib : Patsy – We’re on the same wavelength!

javaz : Choice lady, that’s another thing about the MSM in that they only report the bad, they never report the good, but that’s changing, too.

AdLib : If Obama accepts the path of reconciliation, he can get HCR, a Jobs Bill, Financial Reforms and an Energy Bill done. THEN he can pivot to take on the GOP to put them in the position of fighting for corporations while Obama fights for what the majority of Americans want.

Khirad : One of the criticisms I’m buying against Obama, is that I would like to see him “feel our pain” in his own way. Explain it like a grown up to us, but throw in a few more personal stories. Maybe I’m falling for a meme, I know he’s talked about his own childhood, and Michelle’s hers, but they need to do more ‘connecting’ IMHO.

kesmarn : Bill Moyers had a long, sober condemnation of the SCOTUS decision on his show tonight. Well spoken.

PatsyT : Smart, Creative and maybe Funny action speak even louder then words

choicelady : javaz – that’ part of my “what have you lost?” query. I know things are hard – I have friends long time unemployed. But they are getting by thanks to Obama’s extension of unemployment, COBRA, etc. We need to celebrate what is GOOD. I heard unemployement FELL last month. Wow! Nothing has been made of it, but it’s apparently now UNDER 10% when it was over that last year.

bitohistory : DITTO! Ad Lib. Here’s to C’lady!!

javaz : People are waking up, and even on the right, they are realizing that we must we work together to fight corporate influence. And when you get right down to it, Americans have never fallen for the Liberals vs Christmas thing. We know we have our differences, but more and more people are waking up and realizing we have to fight for our country.

kesmarn : Yes, c’lady, McConnell pronounced it a “victory for free speech.”

Khirad : Indeed, perspective.

AdLib : CL – So pleased at all you’re doing to contribute to getting things done. No offense to anyone but actions speak louder than blogs.

escribacat : javaz…I agree. We don’t know how lucky we are compared to so many people in the world.

choicelady : Where are the MSM in telling everyone that the Reeps support more money from corporations inside Congress and the White House????? That they say corporations are important parts of democracy? That they defend SCOTUS on this ruling!!!

javaz : I do not believe that things are as dire, when it comes to us as Americans, that the media likes to portray.

PatsyT : Choice you will be consulted I imagine…

javaz : Of course the GOP says that, and even their sheep are angry at them for that.

escribacat : Monty Pithon skit

choicelady : khirad and Patsy – but make sure the Ministry’s target is clearly the idiots in Congress. Otherwise the MSM will think you’re mocking Obama or Pelosi. They can’t be left to sort it out. They DO have to have a house drop on them!

escribacat : Kh, I’ve seen that skit!

bitohistory : j’avaz . and the GOP said they will fight any bill dealing with SCOTUS

AdLib : javaz – Absolutely. Corporations can’t combat our numbers with money. If we move forward with 80% behind us and everyone else trying to change things, we will eventually succeed.

PatsyT : Silly walks Yes !

Khirad : A Ministry of Silly Walks marching to show what a joke we think the current situation is?

AdLib : Patsy, that’s exactly where we’re going! DOn’t know that we’ll have it together by the 24th but we’ll get there!

choicelady : There are so many groups involved in health care – MoveOn, the unions, consumer groups, AARP, and faith groups. I work with Faithful Reform in Health Care that is just super. Their site is www.faithfulrefo rm.org. The Vision Statement is wonderful (cough – I helped to write it) and easy to use for even non-religious people. Very useful as “another language” for advocacy.

javaz : When the MSM posts a poll that 80% of Americans are against the SCOTUS decision about corporations and the MSM states that it UNITES both the left and the right, you have to know that a message is finally getting through.

kesmarn : AdLib, yes, sounds like a good action to unite our strength/numbers with. Ungrammatical, but you know what I mean.

PatsyT : How about a virtual march or a video march with silly props and such

bitohistory : Bhudda be praised! He would get a chuckle from that

AdLib : I’ll post a link an stick it to the top of our Home Page when they have their site up. We should “take action” to be apart of this.

kesmarn : Peace be upon him

choicelady : Khirad – you are totally right. That was disgusting. And kes – that Buddhist restraint would be SO welcome!

escribacat : Adlib…That is going to be interesting ?-? I love the idea.

Khirad : Buddha be praised!

PatsyT : Kh yes he can’t claim Jesus is going to save him Praise Budda

AdLib : From MoveOn.org’s website: “Join the Virtual March As Washington stalls on health care, real people are hurting. To remind Congress voters want them to get the job done on reform, we’re holding our biggest day of health care action ever on February 24th. Together, we’ll flood Congress with a million messages for real reform.”

Khirad : kesmarn – exactly!

kesmarn : The GOP oughta indulge in a little Buddhist restraint!

choicelady : escat – oh sure, but how? And will his wife take him back? I don’t see how she can. It’s too gross by half. Forgiveness is wonderful, but I’d never trust that sucker again. Giuliani was the same – knew a guy via email who picked up Presidential bodyguard work for Giuliani – to guard his GIRLFRIEND when he was in LA. So much for “a noun, a verb, 9/11 – and all the babes he can get.”

Khirad : I’m just sayin’ after that crap about Christianity being the only way said… otherwise, could not care less.

javaz : I know, we’re talking health care, and sorry for the OT, but I have zero faith in our elected reps, from either side of the aisle. I am so tired of the Dem vs Rep or Conservative vs Lib/Progressive – I’m tired of the fighting and that’s what we are trying to do, is UNITE to fight the crap from DC.

AdLib : Tiger Woods admits he’s unfaithful.

kesmarn : c’lady, those two ARE recurrent nightmares!

bitohistory : Lincoln, fdr, jfk, lbj got most of their chores done after the first year

AdLib : What’s the difference between Tiger Woods and the GOP?

PatsyT : Kh yes the Buddhism stuff was the redeeming value there … Really so much time on him?

Khirad : Rehabilitated in time for Match Play?

Khirad : Something about Buddhism was the only thing interesting. Otherwise, I only caught it by accident.

escribacat : Tiger will be rehabilitated.

choicelady : kes – enough! We will have recurrent nightmares!

PatsyT : That Tiger crap was just that . . . CRAP

Khirad : LOL javaz. By the way, I always knew JM was a douche.

choicelady : javaz – I think your husband actually hit on something no one is discussing. It’s the hidden side of the scandal. Though they said that stock trading fell to its lowest point during Woods’ press conference and then zapped to its highest point immediately after, so people WERE “deeply concerned” weren’t they?

PatsyT : poke

escribacat : Patsy LOL

AdLib : I watch so little MSM, I missed the Tiger Woods BS. Who cares? Now, as for this narrative of Obama’s comeback, that’s what I like to see.

PatsyT : I do not want to pock my finger into McConnell… just saying..

kesmarn : McConnell and Graham. Soulmates hiking the Appallachian trail together.

Khirad : Ewwwww. AdLib. Scrubbing. that. image. from. my. brain.

bitohistory : the hippo- critter are flocking about now! lol

AdLib : I wonder if McConnell and Lindsey Graham ever compare tan lines?

javaz : Well, thank God the MSM disrupted regular programming today so that we all could watch Tiger Woods apologize for banging more women than most men could ever dream of, and speaking of that – my husband asked if Tiger’s wood was like John Mayer’s wood in being a white supremacist (?) and forgive me if that offends anyone, but it makes me laugh my ass off!

choicelady : bito – LOVED that. Loved Rachel’s “hypocrite” segment that was the same. As she pointed out you can be for something or against that same thing, but you cannot be both. Did a very good job with that!

kesmarn : e’cat, i always said McConnell looked like a grown up Cabbage Patch Doll. Not one of the cute ones either.

escribacat : I know the dough boy is cute…but McConnell seems so…squishy.

AdLib : bito – Yes, saw that article, that is a potent piece. Obama has gotten good press on the stim and this helps.

choicelady : escat – that’s an insult to the Dough Boy! DB is CUTE. McConnell is wicked ugly and scary to boot.

kesmarn : b’ito, yes! What’s that stomping sound? A hippo-critter approaching!

Khirad : What are you guys talking about? Even before Stewart said it, I swore McC was half terrapin.

choicelady : Escat – Noooooo! Jabba is still worse.

PatsyT : No prob Kh I would like a better image of coyote I see enough of them in our neighborhood what is your coyote like ?

kesmarn : AdLib, wouldn’t an active volcano be better?

bitohistory : Did every one catch the TP article about the 110 goppers bitching about the stim and braggin about the jobs at haome?

escribacat : McConnell always reminds me of the Pillsbury Dough Boy.

Khirad : Good ‘Rocky’ point, AdLib. They need a narrative, that’s all.

AdLib : Kes – Can we throw him in a well?

escribacat : Adlib–you are right!

choicelady : Naked overweight guys? Kinda doesn’t matter who. But if you ever saw Borgnine in “Marty” you’d know he DOES (or did) have a certain sex appeal that McC. just does NOT have. He looks wasted 24/7

kesmarn : Well, AdLib, we could throw in Rush Limbaugh…

escribacat : They don’t report the news, they just come up with “compelling narrations”

AdLib : The story for the MSM is now “Rocky”. Obama making a comeback, they like that.

escribacat : MSM is severely letting us down, IMHO

javaz : I do believe that the GOP is finally being exposed by the MSM for who they are, AdLib, but the MSM is a joke, so they need to cause drama.

escribacat : Kes…I’d rather see Jabba the Hut in the buff than Mitch McConnell

kesmarn : Patsy, maybe it’s not too late…

AdLib : Kes – Is that really the choice we have to make?

kesmarn : I’d rather see Ernest Borgnine in the buff than Mitch McConnell.

choicelady : AdLib – naked and McConnell? Oh, eeeuuuw!

PatsyT : Kes LOL you could have you own mega church by now

AdLib : Health Care Reform, folks. COvering 30 million Americans and Norse Gods (Zeus is on his own).

Khirad : SORRY Patsy!!! Gives a bad name to the Amerindian myth, that one.

Khirad : Me too on Scandinavian mythology, Bito. What were we talking about anyway! I can do runes.

escribacat : Kes…lol

PatsyT : Ohhh Kh you said coyote like that dredded one

AdLib : CL – The GOP has openly exposed themselves as having no principles, all they have is a lust for power. The people supporting them are mindless lemmings, if they’re really believed in tax cuts, they would have applauded the Stimulus. If they really want to reduce the deficit, they would be supporting the PO. They are nakedly lusting for power…not a mental image I want to have in mind when thinking of Mitch McConnell.

choicelady : As for alphabets – I’ve always wanted to be able to read runes. Anyone know how?

kesmarn : When I was a little kid, I made up my own religion. Wish I’d stuck with it, because I’d be tax exempt by now.

javaz : Oh, I love this site, too, ChoiceLady, even though I mess up a lot on it, but even my husband who has never blogged, loves it, too.

escribacat : Kh…I had a feelin’ you were kiddin’

choicelady : Kh – I loved the tales of Loki when I was a kid. Appealed to the chaotic side of my child self. Great NAME, Loki!

Khirad : I’m kidding on the alphabet, just that it’s easy to write English in other alphabets and cheat on a code. Loki is a trickster god, like Coyote, etc.

choicelady : LOve the “Planetarian” AdLib! What an evocative concept!

bitohistory : Khirad those aren’t jokes. Scandies are that way.

choicelady : Puritans were cool on many fronts. Even had a sense of humor. The Victorians made them grim to mirror themselves. We’ve been robbed of our roots. Calvin though – yeah, pretty grim.

PatsyT : Odin I should know that being of Swedish background

escribacat : And what other alphabet do we have to learn?

javaz : Has anyone read Ancient Evenings by Norman Mailer? It’s the only book by him that I’ve ever read, and it was all in there about Odin and the gods. What a hell of a book, yet it was so fascinating and perverse that I couldn’t put it down and then my husband read it and then we passed it along to friends.

escribacat : Kh…Who is Loki?

Khirad : I’m more into Loki, bito.

choicelady : AdLib – you’re right about that! When you’re born, your warranty immediately expires in the compassion department!

bitohistory : Odin, the big guy of the Wikings

Khirad : I agree on secret code. Anyone wanna learn another alphabet?

AdLib : Planetarian Secret Code: Swordfish

kesmarn : c’lady, I’m not just a cafeteria Catholic; I’m a walking cafeteria.

choicelady : bito- I agree. And I agree with the conservatives who scream it’s a slippery slope to “government run health care”!!! Problem is – I think that is GOOD.

escribacat : We planetarians need a secret code.

Khirad : Oh lawdy, religious humor! All we need now is a Keillor Lutheran joke.

kesmarn : j’avaz, i thought Calvinists were all Puritanical and stuff!

AdLib : I’m a Planetarian.

PatsyT : Help me Bito, Odin ?

AdLib : Just like the anti-abortion crowd are nowhere to be found on insuring the children that are born.

choicelady : kesmarn – my kinda Christian! roll your own!

javaz : I’d rather be a Presbyterian, because I am in reality a Calvinist.

bitohistory : I will sing praises to Odin if this thing gets through. I just want a foot in the door. progress is progreesive.

choicelady : Oh lordy – the defense of marriage people are nowhere to be seen on divorce over health care! They are total hypocrites (I know that comes as a shock…)

kesmarn : Good point, Khirad. They’re all about marriage/family until the $$$ factors in.

escribacat : CL, I saw a program about the Swiss system. It sounded successful.

Khirad : Cathodist, LOL.

kesmarn : c’lady! WHY wasn’t I a Methodist? Ah well, I’m called a Cathodist now, ’cause I go to both services.

AdLib : CL – I only count birthdays in Leap Years so I’m way younger!

choicelady : AdLib – I agree about single payer, and I think that will come. It’s the only sensible solution. This plan, BTW, is being built almost exactly like that of Switzerland and Germany that both use private but totally regulated insurance carriers. It’s inevitable. But you can see the fear in people! They have drunk the Kool Aid and think they’re free.

javaz : I know it, e’cat and kes, and we are a rich nation, yet this is what we make people do so that they can survive.

Khirad : I wonder where the defense of marriage people are on this. Duh. Stupid question.

Khirad : Indeed AdLib, they’re arguing with their own “principles” now.

kesmarn : j’avaz, you’re right.It is sad. Choice: divorce or lose everything. Nice, huh?

escribacat : javaz….I’ve heard of couples divorcing for that reason

AdLib : Khirad – The Repubs have whined about the taxcuts that 95% of Americans got under the Stimulus Bill, they have totally lost it.

choicelady : kes – I had a shock when I realized that next month I will be certifiably old. But I look much younger. I did not get baptized until I was 12 (my own choice to be a Methodist) and inadvertantly the certificate says I was BORN that year, so I can knock 12 years off my age! I feel much younger anyway, so what the heck? Though I won’t be using that baptismal certificate come Social Security time…

PatsyT : Many of US knew about the rabid S but not the rest of the country

escribacat : Adlib — I agree.

Khirad : Rabid squirrels – suppressive fire! (obscure Colbert reference)

javaz : Kesmarn, did you read that in AARP, too? And sadly, their advice if a spouse needs long term care? If a spouse gets sick and needs long term care, for protection of assets, they recommend divorce. How sad is that?

AdLib : javaz – This is why a national graduated tax and Single Payer would be much better, then its paid for as you go, without penalties or mandates.

PatsyT : Rabid Squirrels . . perfect

escribacat : CL — do you think Obama didn’t realize they were rabid squirrels? I mean, the rest of us knew that from the beginning.

kesmarn : b’ito,one of the many blessings of aging! Not caring!

choicelady : Obama has actually done well on this, though not with the PR. By leaving it to Congress they had the buy in and got a dog in the fight. They would have dumped HIS plan as they did Clinton’s, but now they have their dander up. BTW – Republicans HAVE elements they wanted in various insurance and tort reforms. It’s all they asked for, and they got it. the Dems saw what rabid squirrels they were, and now they’re ready to move for their own plan.

Khirad : It’s gotta kill them to oppose things that, by definition, reduce the budget. A whole lot of math debates…

javaz : I understand the reasons why everyone must buy insurance for a public option to work, but there’s something about that mandate that even bothers me – I did not like the penalties, nor did I like them placing that in the hands of the IRS. If you’ve ever had to deal with the IRS, you’d understand my trepidation on that one.

bitohistory : k’es, by now he doesn’t care

AdLib : CL – That sounds fantastic. Though again, I wonder if you’re aware if they plan to offer a PO to all Americans or that narrow minority of 1%-5% of Americans?

escribacat : CL — I am now starting to feel hopeful again!

choicelady : AdLib – details would be worked out administratively as they were with COBRA and SCHIP to name a few. But if the point is “budget savings” you betcha (to quote someone) the rates would be low, the overhead low, the quality high. It’s the only way it would work. And it would provide REAL competition to private corporations. Theoretically you could not drop what you have to take it, but you could be thrown out for non-payment! THEN you could take it up!

bitohistory : Mandatory is a must!

escribacat : Patsy LOL LOL LOL.

kesmarn : b’ito, Ernie B is probably a little imbalanced.

PatsyT : Love Love Love Sherrod Brown !! (3’s)

AdLib : Better late than never but I wish he had worked like this at the beginning, Obama would have retained a lot more popularity and political capital. But if it passes with a PO, he will get cheers from most Americans and so will the Dems.

bitohistory : Imperfect imbalance, for the artistic is 3

escribacat : Love Sherrod Brown

PatsyT : Adlib you brought up the name…

kesmarn : c’lady. I really had about given up. Sherrod Brown rocks!!

javaz : I wonder if they will still make it mandatory to buy insurance

escribacat : It seems to be working…I haven’t heard anything about death panels

escribacat : CL — perfect deception!!

choicelady : kes – I REALLY think they are doing this well, doing it right (as in correct, you understand!) I believe the “Summit” is a deflection – hey Reeps! Over here! Keep looking over HERE. (And you guys working – keep at it! I’ll distract them so they can’t holler death panels and stuff.)

AdLib : What kind of public option? Medicare or the one that only 5% of the country can use?

PatsyT : Yes … and…Its the russians trick with figure skating to they do things in three’s

kesmarn : j’avaz, what was his wife’s opinion of his longevity plan?

javaz : lmao! very good!

Khirad : Could use something detachable with it.

escribacat : Choice — that sounds incredibly promising…what ’s your take..will this happen?

Khirad : A rigid, rigorous regimen there javaz.

AdLib : javaz, yes I heard that but the problem I have with his program is that I don’t want to have sex with Mrs. Borgnine.

escribacat : Is that three LOLs Patsy?

choicelady : javaz – that’s hilarious! Though it would be hard to have sex with my wife since I have a husband, but point taken…

kesmarn : c’lady, you have just restored my faith!!! Please….no more disappointments!

PatsyT : Javaz LOLOLOL !!!!!

javaz : masturbation 3 times per day and then sex with his wife 3 times per week – he’s into 3’s

AdLib : CL – The House is absolutely right, they shouldn’t sign off on The Senate Bill until the revisions from reconciliation are signed first.

choicelady : kesmarn – yes. I’ve been talking with Pelosi’s chief consultant and Sherrod Brown’s health staffer almost weekly, and it’s been pretty clear that our progressive voices have mattered. Faith community VERY cool – but every one of YOU has mattered, even to Blue Dogs. Don’t ever think it doesn’t. Worst problem? Lousy MSM and “progressive” reporting. Don’t believe anything you read. Not ANYTHING.

escribacat : Pray tell!

javaz : you do know Ernest Borgnine’s secret for living so long, right AdLib?

AdLib : Ah, all my old roles are flooding back to me!

escribacat : Adlib….McHale ’s Navy

bitohistory : “your only as old as you feel” GAWD!

kesmarn : “Narty” is hilarious!

Khirad : Airwolf theme is on my youtube window now.

escribacat : Choice…that sounds pretty good to me!!!

AdLib : Marty!

javaz : Oh yeah – it’s been on raw story and alex jones prison planet, and that alex jones site is a trip, talking about psychedelic!

AdLib : For “Narty”.

PatsyT : He has an Oscar no ?

choicelady : Es’cat – they told us that the Senate bill will go through reconciliation, and that CAN include a public option not as a program but as budget savings. We did it with the kids health fund and COBRA. Then the House will pass it. House does not trust the Senate, so the Senate bill comes soon. For those who observe, this Lent is also the 40 days of health care fasting! They say YES by Easter! Or Passover. Whichever!

kesmarn : I always thought Ernie B was kinda cute!

escribacat : Adlib….

AdLib : You think that’s scary, I look in my mirror and see Ernest Borgnine

escribacat : J — O’reilly said that???

kesmarn : C’lady, did you see the reconciliation deal coming a while back?

PatsyT : I like my age and all of you should to !!

escribacat : Adlib lol

javaz : I so wish it would be Medicare for all, but well, regulation would be a beginning, and once again the GOP are on the wrong side of history and the GOP are so fractured that even O’Reilly came out and warned them not to criticize Obama, but to offer solutions. O’Reilly’s dreaming, because the GOP have no solutions, except for saying NO.

AdLib : CL – Hope that time machines are included in the HCR bill.

escribacat : Kes….me2!!! It’s horrifying!

Khirad : Get a few things done under reconciliation, claim partial victory. It’s not ideal, but they need to be able to show something.

kesmarn : Why do I look in the mirror and see my mother, c’lady?

escribacat : I thought I would be 17 forever.

choicelady : kesmarn – I know about the Big Age Surprise! I thought I’d get to 35 and hold. Did not work.

AdLib : CL – Nice to hear that this is being strategized for success.

escribacat : Choic–what are they saying?

escribacat : Kes?-?I know and you know it but they don’t know it!!!

Khirad : It ticks me off when GOOPers say the Dems haven’t done anything. 1 – they have. 2- you tried to stop them at every stage.

choicelady : AdLib – you are SO correct about that! I believe they have the will and the process in hand now. Good feedback from Congressional staffers with whom I talk.

escribacat : If they don’t pass health care after haggling over it for a year, they’re going to look pretty bad!!!

kesmarn : e’cat, the big surprise for the young’uns is that they too will be 50 one day!

bitohistory : Medicare for all, is what I heard has to be done for recon.-budget

PatsyT : Hi Choice !

escribacat : Adlib — I agree.

AdLib : Hi CL!

escribacat : Hello choicelady

AdLib : It’s going to be a bloodbath for Dems in November if they don’t pass this. They wouldn’t have an argument for being re-elected, “Vote for me and nothing will get done for 6 more years!”

choicelady : Good evening all- picking up the thread, I have info that yes, there will be a public option passed via reconciliation. A great step forward. Those 39% rate hikes did what we might not have been able to pull off!

javaz : No, I don’t think that they will go that far, but I do think there will be regulation. The politicians are finally getting it – people are pissed – and we are trying to organize – and we will organize because they have gone too far

Khirad : I know, e’cat, the meme got old to me even, but I hope he had another chess set ready to go. I think they got caught flatfooted, however.

PatsyT : I mean to much reporting on the anger and not telling the truth about it.

escribacat : Kes–I agree that’s still the best idea I’ve heard. Of course, younger people were pretty resentful about it.

kesmarn : AdLib, at the very least drop the age for Medicare.

PatsyT : So much misdirected anger out there and way too much reporting on the ANGER out there

escribacat : Adlib, I wish.

bitohistory : If the Dems can find some bulocks it may pass

escribacat : That’s kind of the “Obama mystique” Playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers.

AdLib : Do you think they will do the “Medicare For All” concept? That would be so smart and so cool!

escribacat : Khirad, I hope so too.

javaz : well, even the GOP understands that the voters are angry and not as stupid as they thought

AdLib : javaz, absolutely this was not what was planned. Obama had hoped to announce the bill at his SOTU address and they had no idea Brown would take away their 60th vote. But good for them for finally admitting the error of their ways and moving towards reconsiliation.

escribacat : I swiped it from someone over yonder

kesmarn : Howard Dean was saying that if Bush had wanted health care (haha), he would have done it by reconciliation and everyone would have the choice of loving it or leaving.

Khirad : I hope “The Tarantino” catches on. Someone compared Obama to a poker player, playing it slow, but holding all the cards. God, I hope they’re right.

escribacat : Today I saw part of his town hall…he was talking about how everyone told him the repubs would be all against it and it would hurt him in the polls and so on….he knew.

PatsyT : Ecat I am dizzy …

javaz : Really, e’cat, what an amazing thing! You cam prepared!

escribacat : Javaz, you could be right. I’m sure Obama et al thought ahead

AdLib : Nice pull escrib! This is far from unprecedented! If Bush could do it to destroy our economy by giving the wealthy the biggest tax cuts in history, we sure should use it to bring health care to all Americans.

javaz : I’m starting to believe it’s possible, AdLib, and in my conspiracy wacky mind, wonder if this was the plan all along.

escribacat : I don’t know, adlib. I’ve been one the most optimistic people but I’m just in wait and see mode nowl

AdLib : So, is this really going to happen? It’s the only way for the Dems to turn around public opinion.

javaz : the GOP is fighting at the CPAC, and I truly believe the msm makes the GOP CPAC news, like Tiger Woods, but truly the GOP are messed up and not held favorably in public opinion.

Khirad : Aha – zoom out – duh. No more scrolling.

escribacat : okay, that’s too hard to read. Never mind!!

kesmarn : e’cat, I’ve wondered if the Ins. Co. people have outsmarted themselves and tea-bagged themselves right into a corner. Now that they’ve lost 30,000,000 mandated customers, they’re panicking.

escribacat : Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982 Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983 Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 Balanced Budget Act of 1995 Balanced Budget Act of 1997 Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 Marriage Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2000 Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007

escribacat : Someone posted a list of other bills that passed via reconciliation. I saved it. It might be too long for here. I’ll try.

AdLib : bito – use the “zoom out function on your browser.

AdLib : Yep, the greed of Wellpoint/Anthem will hopefully be their undoing.

bitohistory : I need a 22″ screen to get in this conversation.

AdLib : Patsy – Exactly, the idea is likely to justify reconciliation by exposing the Repubs for having no plan to cover 30 million Americans or apply any prices controls.

escribacat : Why would the insurance companies do that right at that time?

kesmarn : The insurance company rate increases are getting attention. Good thing. A little preview of coming attractions for the little people if we don’t get something done!

escribacat : I truly don’t understand all the ups and downs of this process.

AdLib : I agree, there is momentum now! Maybe the Dems have figured out the the GOP already has cornered the “do nothing” market.

PatsyT : AdLib … thats it… why all the drama has it just been to reveal how despicable the other side is?

javaz : well, that’s great news, adlib, and the public option is what the majority of the public wants, but who knows

bitohistory : Good point j’avaz, there do seem to stories on increases.

escribacat : I repeat: yabba dabba do

AdLib : “President Obama will put forward comprehensive health care legislation intended to bridge differences between Senate and House Democrats ahead of a summit meeting with Republicans next week, senior administration officials and Congressional aides said Thursday. Democratic officials said the president’s proposal was being written so that it could be attached to a budget bill as a way of averting a Republican filibuster in the Senate. The procedure, known as budget reconciliation, would let Democrats advance the bill with a simple majority rather than a 60-vote supermajority.”

escribacat : Well… it was nothing!

Khirad : I’m ticked off with Cantwell. Hi all!

kesmarn : Arlen. Spector. That’s good. Phil Spector…no, he’d be on the music thread…nevermi nd

PatsyT : Proud of you ecat !

escribacat : (being from Colorado)

escribacat : I have to say I’m awfully chuffed about Bennett and Polis

escribacat : Holy moly. I hadn’t heard that.

PatsyT : Arlen Spector Signed !! I think they are are just going to keep marching on and I am still seeing that it will get there

AdLib : “Sen. Arlen Specter (D-Penn.) signed the public-option letter Friday afternoon, his spokeswoman, Kate Kelly, tells HuffPost.”

javaz : ah sheesh, who knows, but it’s promising that the msm is picking up and putting out stories about the increases in insurance and medicare

kesmarn : I’m afraid to get my hopes up one more time; I’ve been stood up so many times already.

escribacat : Yabba dabba doo

bitohistory : Clinton had 32 co singners on his HCR and it went in the dumpster.

AdLib : “Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) announced on Friday afternoon that he would work with other Democrats and the White House to pass a public option through reconciliation if that’s the legislative path the party chooses.”

escribacat : Kes…..yum

kesmarn : I brought chips. Do they go with Spam?

AdLib : OKAY, LET’S BEGIN! A FLURRY OF STORIES TODAY SAY THAT THE PUBLIC OPTION AND HCR VIA RECONCILIATION IS ON THE MOVE. HARRY REID SUPPORTS BRINGING BACK THE PO, 18 SENATORS HAVE SIGNED A LETTER SO FAR ASKING FOR THAT AND OBAMA IS PREPARING HIS OWN COMPROMISE BILL. IS HCR BACK AND WILL IT PASS? IF SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WILL LOOK LIKE?

javaz : yes they do, Patsy and I like it and am looking forward to the 3rd installment of Degraw’s book

PatsyT : I saw that Alternet has a new set up

javaz : hiya b’ito!

PatsyT : Ecat love it !

escribacat : Stole it from a poster over yonder.

escribacat : How’s this for a bumpersticker: 50 + Biden.

AdLib : Hey bito!

PatsyT : I have not been on the music thread yet Hi Bito !

bitohistory : Be back in a few. Hello all

javaz : who can remember?

AdLib : Hey, did anyone do “I Can See For Miles” yet?

AdLib : Just another minute to see if we have any stragglers…

javaz : higher than a kite from the subconscious psychedelic thread, but it’s all in my mind and can see for miles and miles – fine thank you, and how are you?

escribacat : I’m fine. Must go fetch more chocolate though. brb.

PatsyT : No leave it it looks dangerous … ooooo

AdLib : How is everyone doing tonight?

escribacat : Maybe that was me from last time.

AdLib : Maybe I’ll just remove it!

AdLib : Yes, I need to figure out how to reset that spam counter!

PatsyT : E’Cat I see it

escribacat : We are the spam. Hehe.

javaz : hiya patsy!

PatsyT : Hi e’cat Hi AdLib what is the spam do we needs eggs?

escribacat : I see a messag