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Nirek On October - 7 - 2014

People dressed in military uniforms attend a ceremony to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the D-Day landings, in Old Bethpage, New York

 

 

Senators and Representatives want to send our combat troops to Syria, (boots on the ground)?

I have a suggestion for them. Every one of them who want American “Boots on the ground” should put their boots on and get their asses over there!

I am a combat veteran from the Vietnam War and I would not go over there to fight!  You can call me a coward if you want to. The indigenous people over there are not fighting ISIS or (ISIL) in fact the Iraqi army we trained and armed just dropped their equipment and gave up, then they dug their own graves and were shot to drop into the grave. If the people don’t want to fight for their freedom, we Americans should not have to send our young military folks into harms way.

So I’ll repeat myself. If Senator McCain and Graham and Reps. like Boehner and others want American boots on the ground, let them put their boots on and get over there. While they are at it they can send their own children to join the military instead of ours.

I’m sick of these “chickenhawks” sending our young off to be killed or maimed!!!!

If you agree with me good. I’d like to hear from you. If you disagree with me , let me know where I’m wrong. I’ll read your answer and respond in a civil way.

Should we go back to the draft? Should women be drafted, too? Should there be ways for politicians family members to avoid the draft?

As you all know , I was drafted in 1967 when I was 21. I’m against the draft the way it was when I was drafted. If there was no way for “special” people to avoid the draft, I might change my mind about it. I do know that I would discourage my family members from joining the military.

So, lets discuss this issue.

 

 

Written by Nirek

Proud progressive Vietnam Vet against WAR! Can't stomach chickenhawks.

82 Responses so far.

Click here to leave a comment
  1. monicaangela says:

    I agree 100% with your article Nirek. As you know, I am also a veteran, and do realize that those who are clamoring for war know they are not going to be the ones who have to put the boots on and go fight the battle. They also know it won’t be their children or even the children of friends of theirs who go fight these battles. Those like McCain and Graham are warmongers, chicken hawks, and perverse to the core when it comes to exploiting the children of middle class and poor Americans for their own political gain.

    As for the draft, I don’t believe it should be implemented. I believe those that have to fight wars, should volunteer to do so, and that the regular military should be paid the same as the mercenaries that fight for the vulture corporations like Xe, formerly Blackwater and others. I believe the only way a person should have to become a soldier is if he/she volunteers. Maybe if enough people stop volunteering we will see an increase in military pay, and as you know, when the pay gets too high, we will find another way to solve our problems. At least that would be my wish, that war become too expensive and we have to start to use diplomacy to solve problems.

  2. Pete Geller says:

    ISIS would not exist if it weren’t for the war in Iraq. When will we quit creating terrorists due to the so called ‘War on Terror’? We just continue war to profit the corporations and we need to stop.

  3. jjgravitas says:

    Nirek, good points all. I’m not military. I turned 18 in the ’70s a few months after the draft ended, although I have a health condition that would have excluded me anyway. This is supposed to be a decade where we pull out of the wars started by the Bush administration. We are supposed to start withdrawing troops from Afghanistan this year.
    It’s been my opinion for decades that we don’t defend our nation by fighting in foreign wars. The goal of the military should be to defend the HOMELAND. If we were defending our homeland in 2001, the 9/11 attacks would not have happened. Why? Because we would have been ready to defend our homeland and the rest of the world would know that.
    Seems to me that our willingness to bet involved in foreign conflicts is partly responsible for why the rest of the world seems so unwilling to defend itself. They seem to just hang back and wait for the U.S.A. top step in and fix everything no matter how long it takes, and they resent us for sticking our military nose in.
    Our message to the rest of the world should be: “Grow up already! Defend yourself, because we won’t. If you aren’t willing to defend yourself you deserve to be taken over.” I have no problem with helping out our friends with airstrikes, advice and strategy. But the “boots on the ground” should come from the nation that is defending itself.

    By they way, ISIS doesn’t stand for “Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.” ISIS stands for “I Suck I Suck” (repeat continuously until the message sinks in). That’s the message ISIS is sending to the world. That they suck.

    My two cents.

    • Nirek says:

      JJ, your two cents makes sense to me.

      I would love to see the military deployed along the leaky Southern border to keep both people and drugs from coming in to America. I’ll go further and put them in the ports to inspect every container coming in to America.

      Wouldn’t America be much safer if that were done?

      • jjgravitas says:

        Nirek, when I was a kid I heard an explanation for why our military is so focused on overseas conflicts: that our country (the “homeland”) is so secure that we can easily afford for our focus to be on (so-called) “threats” from overseas. It was all bogus of course. Sabre rattling. Communism was never the threat to us that we pretended it was. The real threat was who had the atomic bomb and who was prepared to use it. That’s what the Cold War was really about. Not ideology.
        Per your suggestion I agree that we should militarise our borders, even set up bases along it. Take this job away from the yahoo militias that are currently pretending to protect us from “ferriners.” Put them in charge of the ports too.

        • Nirek says:

          JJ, when I was inducted we were told we had to fight the “commies” over there so they wouldn’t come here to fight.

          Naturally that was a lie. When we finally got out of Vietnam they just tended to their own business, and now we even trade with Vietnam.

  4. GreenChica says:

    I agree with you Nirek. No boots on the ground. It’s galling how the Iraqi army just seemed to disappear in a puff of smoke. How many billions did we throw at that “army”?

    I agree with kes that bombing their positions to help the kurds is good but I’m also aware that I am swayed by the horror beheading vids, which generate an emotional reaction in me and lust for revenge. Whenever I feel lust for revenge I stop trusting my “opinions” fully.

    Building ebola clinics in Africa seems like a much more worthy project for “boots on the ground.”

    Those people screaming for boots in Syria were the same people screaming about the deficit last year. Remember the debt ceiling / government shutdown? What happened to that?

    • Hey slm. The military is never affected by government shutdowns. Some branches of government have to stay open all the time.

      As far as a draft is concerned, we don’t need one. The government sure doesn’t want one. They know a draft would make people much more anti-war.

      The draft was one of the main reasons that the anti-war protests during the 60s were so large and frequent. The movement started small, but became very big rather quickly.

      • Nirek says:

        KT, when we were in Nam the protesters were at peak because so many of us were drafted. I could have gone to Canada but for my Dad and his reputation as a career soldier. I could not disgrace his good name.

        I would have gone to Woodstock if not in Vietnam and my life might have gone in a different direction, who knows?

        Peace.

    • Nirek says:

      GC, yes sending our military to Africa to secure the ebola clinics is a worthy cause. And yes again, I remember the shut down and so should every other voter. Debt ceiling? Don’t hear anything about that any more, do we?

  5. Harleigh says:

    I believe we should give the baggers the benefit of the doubt and let them all follow Ted Shitpants Nugent to fight ISIS! Seriously. They can even take their lectric scooters with them and wear their best 1776 outfits with white wigs and tri-corn hats. After a few hours their dead bodies could be loaded back onto the same transport planes and brought back to merika and be dumped on a forest fire or a landfill.

  6. EXFANOFARIANA says:

    Well well, listening on my way home to NPR/BBC, many Kosovians are leaving their country to join ISIS because they cannot find jobs so they join as mercenaries.Same situation with many Iraqis too.They become extremists and can get “hired” by joining the jihadists.

    • Nirek says:

      Ex, maybe the Tea Potty folks who can’t find work should join the military and volunteer to serve as “boots on the ground”, or the hard core NRA folks.

  7. James Michael Brodie says:

    Well said, my friend.

    And you raised an interesting point near the end. What politician — other than Joe Biden — has family fighting overseas?

    I watched a documentary on the Rooseveldt family and was surprised to learn that FDR had several family memebrs serving in combat zones during WWII.

    I wonder how many current day leaders would be okay with this…

  8. NirekJunior says:

    Dad, once again you have valid points. We have no business putting our troops out there again. The ONLY way I’d even consider supporting that kind of action is if it were as part of a NATO or a United Nations thing and we were not the only ones there. Ideally even then it wouldn’t be putting our people in harm’s way, but if it’s part of a larger action via the UN at least we wouldn’t be seen as ‘going it alone’ as we did in Bush Jr’s war (oh we had his “Coalition” that was a few minor countries we paid off to agree with us). As far as the draft goes -- I don’t see a need for it, but if it were ever needed again it should be everyone capable of serving -- no exceptions for wealth or anything else.

  9. kesmarn says:

    No boots on the ground, Nirek! I agree. I do support the air strikes in support of those who are battling ISIS, and I can see the advantage of providing supplies to the Syrian rebels, but I think that’s as far as it should go.

    As for those who want to send other peoples’ children into harm’s way, all I can say is that the day I see all 5 of Mitt Romney’s sons in the front lines, I’ll take those “chickenhawks” a bit more seriously.

    I don’t think any of us will be holding our breath waiting for that to happen, though.

    (Interesting that Britain’s Prince Harry served in Afghanistan, but no son of the uber-wealthy and powerful here during the Dubya administration felt up to doing the same thing, no?)

    • Nirek says:

      Kes, you are correct about the family members of the uber-wealthy or the shrub administration not serving. Joe Biden’s son did serve, but he is a Dem.

  10. SearingTruth says:

    I agree gentle friend Nirek.

    Too much American blood has been shed in the defense of those who could have saved themselves, if only given the kind of help other nations gave us during our revolution.

    And if they failed, it would be because not enough of them were willing to fight and die for their own freedom. A sad fate, but a fate that no amount of American lives could alter.
    ST

    “There are times when evil must be fought, and when the good must come to the aid and defense of the innocent.

    But it is the responsibility of those who desire freedom to fight for it. I believe that freedom loving and compassionate peoples should, from the beginning, simply provide those who desire liberty with arms and training, so they are capable of battling, and dying, for their own freedom.

    Just as other countries did during the American revolution.

    And as brutal and abhorrent as it is, a war of any kind, if necessary, is best fought on the ground.

    Ground forces are the only ones who can accurately target enemies of freedom, limiting the death of the innocent to as great a degree as possible.

    Bombs and missiles simply cannot.

    But make no mistake, and harbor no delusion, any war will kill the innocent, no matter how it is waged.”
    SearingTruth

    “A peoples revolution cannot be won by a foreign army.”
    SearingTruth

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.”
    Edmund Burke

    A Future of the Brave

    • Nirek says:

      ST, the people who live there have to put their lives on the line and fight themselves. Americans should help but NOT do the fighting on the ground for them.

    • Bombs and missiles work a lot better than you may think. Iraq has the ground troops. With the use of both ground troops and airstrikes, ISIS and it’s affiliates won’t last very long in their present state.

      What can’t be killed are ideas. Bombs, missiles and bullets have no affect on ideas.

      Yes, some innocents are being killed in the attempts to rid the world of barbarians like those that comprise the IS, but groups like ISIS and others are slaughtering civilians by the thousands and enslaving women and children. They have to be stopped.

  11. RSGmusic says:

    Hello Nirek, your article is a very good look at things.

    As for the draft, I was not drafted. IF they put back the draft rich sons should not get any waivers at all. IF drafted my father would have seen me to the induction center. His effort would not be needed i would report anyway. He served in WW2 in the push to japan and again in Korea for 4 yrs

    I would not fight over there now if boots are needed it has not worked yet for decades.

    It is very hard to destroy religious beliefs and they will reform again in a few yrs. The leaders of ISIS/ISIL are not even in the country.

    I am in agreement the congress should go over and serve in the front lines no matter their age. There would be much less wars if this where true.

    The native america word for leaders in the US congress is translated as HINDMOST also translated as cowards in safe far away places.

    No one knows who is on who’s side and the worlds oil companies are on both sides.

    I real hope Obama can keeps us out of the military fighting on the ground.

    ———- Sayings of (THE Child of Nature)
    ” IN the sands of time, time flows over and over again. It
    Slides in back currents and the falling sands hide the future of the conflicts that occur to change history. ”

    A synthesizer can create any instrument made and others that have not been created yet.

    • Nirek says:

      Hey my friend, thanks for the response. You make good points.
      “The native america word for leaders in the US congress is translated as HINDMOST also translated as cowards in safe far away places.”
      What a great name for our “chickenhawks”!

      • RSGmusic says:

        HI Nirek ya chicken hawks if fitting also. We agree on many things and I am glad like things in my post.

        Keep publishing in planet Pov, you have a good look on things as i have said before.

        live long and in good health and prosper always!!

  12. Kalima says:

    Hello, Nirek.

    I agree 100% that there should be no boots on the ground from any Western nation. If surrounding Arab/Muslim countries feel that threatened by ISIS expansion into their territory, then they must contribute any ground troops.

    However I do understand the reasons for the air strikes in a support role to weaken IS’s grip, diminish their fighting power, thereby saving thousands of innocent civilian lives. If you haven’t been following the news as closely as I have, you won’t be aware of the continuing massacres they perpetrate in every town they take over.

    The Iraqi army is not strong enough because many of them don’t know where their loyalties lie after years of discord with the self serving politics of Maliki. Syria is just one big mess, but the death toll now stands at over 191,000, most of those being civilians.

    I read an article about Leon Panetta’s big mouth and thought, ok, he is an ex-CIA director and unfortunately a Democrat, although it makes you wonder. Right, so the public should believe a man who was in charge of an agency that has lied to get us into war, and has a long history of interferring and f’ing up numerous countries around the world because of it?

    Here is an article by Dana Milbank I read yesterday.

    “Leon Panetta, other former Obama subordinates show stunning disloyalty”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-leon-panetta-and-other-obama-subordinates-stunning-disloyalty/2014/10/06/c4ae4448-4d95-11e4-babe-e91da079cb8a_story.html

    So to answer your main question; no, there should be no boots on the ground from any Western nation involved in the air strikes no matter what a few, emotionally detached, war loving generals have stated. Thank goodness that the President is fighting them all the way.

    With friends like Panetta, who needs enemies? He might as well join the GOP. Oh wait, I think he already has. Another Robert Gates mouthing off to promote his book.

    As always, thanks for the article, Nirek.

    • GreenChica says:

      Kalima, I’d like to twist that Panetta’s big nose.

    • Nirek says:

      Thanks Kalima, I agree that the surrounding countries should be providing the “boots on the ground”. We can and should help with air strikes.

    • kesmarn says:

      Kalima, Panetta is on the Charlie Rose Show even as we speak, and he’s trying to dance around the issue of disloyalty (while pushing his book sales).

      He’s quoted as saying he “thinks the President has lost his way.” (He seems to be quite a fan of Hillary Clinton’s.) And as for being disloyal — yes, I think that’s the word that would apply if anyone boils down exactly what he’s said in this book.

      • Kalima says:

        Hello kes. Just like Robert Gates before him, he wrote it and can’t take it back. Loyalty has nothing to do with it with these types, but being a Democrat makes it that more disgusting to read about.

        Ex-CIA director? Give me a break. Probably spends far too much time at the Pentagon listening to old farts with nothing better to do than gossip about their “thrills” in the last war. Shame on him. Shame on them too.

  13. S-Man says:

    As usual they are making ISIS into a much larger threat than they really are. They need to gin up the fear so their defense contractor buddies can get richer on the blood of our soldiers and that caused by “collateral” damage. It’s time to stop creating future enemies.

    • EXFANOFARIANA says:

      ISIS is not like you describe them,S-Man. Hope you agree with my little humble opinion here.The Turkish now are having to move their army, into their borders otherwise, the Kurds most likely, will be massacred.I have posted comments earlier and how even moderate Muslims are afraid of them spreading a Caliphate throughout the middle east.Two weeks ago, they have beheaded two dozens of Christian CHILDREN.They are SOCIOPATHS. No religion is necessarily involved.It’s as good for them to spread terror as it is for the born again talibangelists in “Merikuh”. If you listen to libertarians, linked to the core -- or embryo -- with Ayn Rand, they do not really care about you nor the “masse”….It’s eff you and tks very much.I got my share.Didn’t you get yours? Tough scheister”.Peace.

      • Nirek says:

        Ex, if we were near that part of the world we would be involved for sure. Turkey is a bordering country and has stayed out of it for a long time. Probably thinking American soldiers would do the dirty work. The people of that part of the world have been fighting among themselves for hundreds of years. What makes us think we can stop that?

        I hate that there is fighting anywhere, but Americans cannot end it. We only make more people hate us.
        I believe the Turks should be the boots on the ground because they are there and being attacked. We can help with bombing and other air attacks. But the indigenous people have to do the fighting on the ground. The Iraqi army is not doing what they were trained to do. Giving up their arms and equipment to ISIS and digging their own graves!?!
        You don’t see Americans doing that.

        • Kalima says:

          Hi, Nirek. Turkey has been the gateway to illegal oil smuggling from the ISIS captured oil wells in Syria, and of course are one of the countries who have been buying the oil on the cheap. They had to be challenged to join in the fight and have now agreed because the terrorists are threatening their border.

          I have posted several links in my MB over the last few weeks about this.

        • EXFANOFARIANA says:

          Nirek my beloved brother, you have to understand Turkey is a divided country.The Western part is absolutely civilized, cultivated -- I strongly recommend a visit -- and want peace. The Eastern part…..not so much.The in fight among them philosophically is already strong.The religious nuts on the east, want a caliphate. How soon they forget about what happened to the Ottoman Empire???? ISIS stole the weapons Iraqis were so damned idiots about not caring for it.I agree. It’s THEIR battle.I am so tired of seeing wars and more wars. This is very special for me for, I care daily, to cater to 5 Nam vets left out on the streets. I feed them daily. I give them money.My husband gets pissed…”you do know they will be getting drugs or booze”??/Who the ****k cares? I reply. Have you been on that hellhole of Vietnam? NO. So STFU! These folks should not be on the streets, to begin with.3 of them have all signs of schizophrenia.My nut husband thinks they will one day kill me.BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA , I deal with mentally challenged people better than with ANY GOPteapartay!!!!!

          • RSGmusic says:

            HI EXfan, Ok i had to go to this post to answer.

            Ya DeL says thank you.

            Keep doing the good work!!

            OH, do you want me to send the guitar instrumental?

            hugs always!

          • RSGmusic says:

            Hi EXFAN, Ya your post is very good. Glad you help the veterans.

            Hugs for you for all the good things you do every day.

            I did get a good version of the guitar piece named after your nickname that i like so much.

            DeL is fine and says Hi.

            with all the friendship we have.
            long life in good health.

            A synthesizer can create any instrument made and others that have not been created yet.

            • EXFANOFARIANA says:

              Hi there my dear friend, I consider my humble help a privilege, actually.As Nirek posted hereunder, I know exactly what these boys -- and not only -- faced when they got back “home”…
              Prosper always and send my love to Del!

          • Nirek says:

            Ex, I have the greatest respect for you and your efforts on behalf of my fellow veterans of Vietnam.

            Upon return to the “world” which we called home we were not exactly greeted as fellow Americans. I hold no grudge because if not drafted I would not have served. Almost went to Canada. But I thought about disgracing my Dad. He was a career soldier, WWII and Korean War vet with a stellar record. I had to serve and make him proud.

            • EXFANOFARIANA says:

              And Nirek…we, Europeans owe our liberation’s to Americans.As much as you owe your 4th of July to France and it’s bankruptcy to defend and liberalize you from the British oppressors”. I respect immensely your love and living up to his standards. Rather high. I tip my hat to your father and others like him.But wars are not the answer.I was 13 and in Paris when the Prague and Daniel Cohen Bandit were struggling.The bastards have invaded Czechoslovakia..My dad was, yet, again involved. Must have been pretty hard on dad..He was a diplomat after all!But he fought underground. I was arrested at 17, for being against Kissinger and his CIA command of killing, raping and destroying “commies” in South America.But I was so dang lucky…But my father’s position should not have any influence at all.Cheers mate!

      • S-Man says:

        Perhaps I should have been clearer, I should have said they are not a direct threat to us within our borders. You are correct in that they are feared by their neighbors and should be handled by their neighbors. We can provide support and intel but not in the form of military assistance. If we learn from the past for once we would recognize the fact that when we hand out weapons in this part of the world they will probably be used against us at some future date.

    • Nirek says:

      S-Man, I couldn’t agree more. Everything we have done in the Middle East has made our enemies multiply. It has drained our treasury and blood without giving us anything for that high cost.

  14. funksands says:

    Nirek, I’m in agreement with all of your comments. I can’t think of 1 reason to put boots on the ground in Syria, nor very many reasons for airstrikes.

    This is an old old old political problem that we are trying to solve militarily. There are several things to we could do prior to unleashing hell on earth or more young Americans to trudge into the desert.

    I have mixed feelings on the draft. On one hand I think it might policy-makers a hell of a lot less casual about deploying troops into a war zone. I think it would certainly keep the American people’s attention on what are political leaders are doing with our military.

    On the other, you have seen first-hand the effectiveness of a drafted army in the field. Is it as effective as it could be? Unlikely. Does that make it more likely people die? Probably.

    There has to be another tool that would work as well, but I can’t think of one.

    • Nirek says:

      Funk, we seem to be on the same page. I have been against the draft since before I was drafted. However, we draftees were just as good or better soldiers as the regular army volunteers were. That of course is my opinion. I do have some reasons for that opinion though.

      Most of the guys I served with were drafted and served with distinction. Many of the regular army soldiers joined to get out of serving jail time.

      So today I have great respect for our military folks because they are all volunteers. You don’t see too many rich kids or politicians family joining.


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