AdLib : Thanks CL! Sleep well!
choicelady : AdLib – I surely will let you know what kind of reception I get!!! Take care!
AdLib : It is that time! Have a great weekend Sally! You too Choicelady and please fill me in on your adventures in hotfooting legislators on Monday!
choicelady : Well dear friends, I imagine you’re tired, and I’m burning out, too, so I shall bid the two of you adieu until next week. Thank you for being here – it was good to share about bito and then talk about everything under the sun with you. Sweet dreams and a GREAT weekend and week ahead.
AdLib : CL – Pretty much no one knew who the Kochs were before our rally in Palm Springs. Same with the Dominionists. The cockroaches can’t hide in the shadows anymore.
choicelady : AdLib – Jon Coupal of the anti-tax zealots is STILL a supply sider. Every time he writes a column, he becomes less and less relevant.It’s getting funny actually – he keeps the pretense, lacks the reality. People are bored by the phony promises.
choicelady : Sally – yes, he WAS one of the Grimm brothers’ worst fantasies, wasn’t he?
choicelady : AdLib – I’m not into conspiracies, but there are forces in the shadows. Obama has brought them into the light. I guess I worry about what we still don’t see, the people who are determined to have a plutocracy or, worse, theocracy, but I think they’ve shot their wad for now. Just hoping they finally burn out. I pin my hopes on the younger generation. Now – if we can just change the way businesses do business so people can have jobs over which they have control, we MIGHT find stability and sustainability again.
AdLib : I think Obama is the anti-Reagan, all the BS that Reagan’s Admin sewed into the minds of Americans has become shredded under Obama. Bye-bye Supply side!
SallyT : CL, if Ronnie was a fairy tale it was one of the original Grimms! Those were really horror!
AdLib : CL – Yep, it’s water under the bridge but a critical lesson, we can never let such a coup happen again. The results were catastrophic.
choicelady : AdLib and Sally – PacMAn LIVES??? Who knew?
choicelady : AdLib – might as well wish we’d never had Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, too. If wishes were horses… But here we are, and I just want to have these four years make things start REAL change for the better. We keep doing this in America – we get what we wish for then don’t like it. Time to keep focus on what’s real, not what’s fantasy. The past 30-plus years since Ronnie have ALL been a fairy tale.
AdLib : Sally – They have PacMan for iPhone free, my daughter downloaded it and plays it. On an iPhone. Low tech meet high tech!
SallyT : Oh, AdLib, it I still had Pac Man I would have to play it!
AdLib : We might have avoided 9/11, we would have avoided the Iraq War and without that, the crash and recession wouldn’t have been as bad. We wouldn’t have had the Bush Tax cuts so we would have kept running surpluses. Man, what a bad break for our reality.
choicelady : Murph – just one note that you type very well for a pumpkin!
choicelady : AdLib – exactly. We might have avoided war though. And tons of lives would not have been lost. Hard to think about. Sigh.
AdLib : Night Sally! Sleep well and no Pac Man, right to sleep!
AdLib : CL – But without Bush there wouldn’t have been an Obama. Who knows what that might have led to?
choicelady : Murph – good night! Have a wonderful weekend and week.
SallyT : Murph, you pumpkin! Have a good nights rest and see you later.
choicelady : Yes – a parallel universe. That was as monumental a negative change as Nov.22, 1963. No use looking back. AND maybe it served a good purpose in showing America that the Reagan-Bush strategies were not ever going to help the majority. It would be nice to avoid all that, but we didn’t. So – onward with change we can believe in.
AdLib : Night Murph! Thanks for dropping in after what must have been a wonderful concert!
AdLib : CL – It looks like greed, the power is theirs to abuse so they do. They are as bad as Mubarak who they railed against. Same old story…
MurphTheSurf3 : YIKES! It is after midnight! I am turning into a pumpkin as I type….so I need to feel the Vox Populi Ball….good night all.
AdLib : CL – So much good could have been done if Bush had not been allowed to steal the election against Gore. Ah…to live in that parallel world…
choicelady : I frankly am shocked that the Muslim Brotherhood is being this stupid, this repressive. They are letting a golden opportunity slip away. I’m horrified by their brutality.
choicelady : Murph – oh, that I can live with! Hurting whiny GOP Senators is not a bad thing at all! AdLib – they will never get over it. You nailed McCain and I think all the others – entitlement.
AdLib : Remember the elation at Egypt ridding themselves of Mubarak and creating a democracy for themselves? It will be a long battle to gain that in the long term now.
choicelady : Sally – Egypt is heartbreaking indeed.
choicelady : AdLib – Yes! What did the women matter so long as Bush had his little “fall of Babylon” war? Well RAWA was active before, and I bet it’s already reconsolidating! Mavis Leno,Jay Leno’s wife, was very powerful in supporting those brave women. I’m sure SHE is gearing up again, too.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….having Hagel as S of D
AdLib : Murph – Oh yeah, and let it hurt those petty, selfish Repubs big time. You lost boys, time to quit your crying, it’s not going to change anything.
choicelady : Murph – I lost the thread. What will hurt?
AdLib : CL – There were other choices that Bush could have made right after beating back the Taliban that could have helped the women there for the long term but his turning to Iraq and letting Bin Laden escape ruined that.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad..I know, but Hagel was one of them. A GOP Senator, an uniform wearer, the chair of the 2000 McCain Campaign…..I think McCain’s rage was rising out of this….and so was Graham….it is going to hurt.
choicelady : Murph – wow, that IS impressive! You and Khirad must prepare something for us together. I learn more about that entire region from the two of you than any other source. My Muslim friends here are from LOTS of places – Afghanistan is not one of them.
SallyT : Afghanistan isn’t Egypt and look at all the trouble they are having.
AdLib : Murph – But there is no better outcome for the Repubs, there isn’t going to be a pro-war SoD under Obama.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I did a lot of study on it using Asian based sources. I needed to make a case for a candidate.
choicelady : AdLib – I think that’s it: collapse. I understand that is the inevitable history of the “nation” that is not a nation at all. I fear for the women. REALLY fear for them! But I’m not sure what we can do.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- yes, it is the way things will be but with Hagel there it will hurt the neocons ever so much more….
AdLib : CL – We don’t have a trustworthy or strong ally in Afghanistan, there is no national infrastructure, it’s artificially being prevented from collapsing by US troops.
choicelady : Murph – very astute. How is it you know all that?
choicelady : Sally – I agree.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I know the Afghan situation pretty well….my prediction….th e Northern Alliance which has laid low will reassert itself and push for a return to tribal government like they used to have and like the Saudis still have. The Northern Alliance were our allies in the first 18 months of that war and they won it with our help BUT they did not want a Western oriented government based in the cities so Bush’s neocons dropped them from real power sharing. They are biding their time.
SallyT : CL, I have no doubt that it will be ugly when we pull out but we won’t change anything by staying either.
choicelady : All – I don’t think the word I wanted was “capitulate” but damned if I can think what I DID want…
AdLib : Hagel did address the surge, saying that it was just one element of many that affected the situation in Iraq. Too complex for the brain of a McCain to comprehend.
choicelady : Sally – yes. I think this year. Finally. There IS the possibility, Afghanistan being what it is, that it will all capitulate when we’re gone. I fear it’s inevitable. It’s NOT a nation but a series of fiefdoms. I don’t think modernity will be easily acquired. My hope lies in the women and the men who support them. But it’s going to be very ugly. We have to be prepared for the criticism of Obama and be ready to support him.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…you are correct…there have been suggestions from the neocons in the Senate and House that we do a second surge in Afghanistan to stabilize the Karzai government…..H agel at Defense makes it even harder to sell that idea
AdLib : Murph – It’s not so much payback as it is just the way things are. Obama will have a bipartisan cabinet with a Repub at Defense, helping to carry out Obama’s agenda. But otherwise, whoever was confirmed would be doing that.
SallyT : Bring the troops home sooner?
choicelady : Murph – what interests me is that Obama, who used a surge, apparently agrees with Hagel. THAT is a mature president!
MurphTheSurf3 : Hagel will have the chance to spell out the truth- surges do not work….ever…. ..not a single one…
AdLib : CL – Yep, power over which state’s contractors get contracts. That could work. I’ll bet Hagel would love to see McCain coming to him, pleading for a contract to go to his state.
choicelady : AdLib – and in being a Republican in support of Obama!
SallyT : And, maybe fewer contracts.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….Hagel’s payback will be in not cooperating with their agenda, in being Obama
choicelady : AdLib – I think you just discovered HOW Hagel can get even.
AdLib : I don’t know how Hagel could get any payback on those Senators, unless it comes to which state gets Pentagon contracts.
MurphTheSurf3 : OK ALL….thanks for the Hagel update….no need to turn our conversation in sourpuss’s direction.
choicelady : Murph – I think you’ve put your finger on McCain’s personality. A family friend used to say we never fully appreciate the ‘first rate second raters’ – a very good observation. HE never could accept himself for who and what he is. It would be sad if he’d not become a bully.
SallyT : McCain after Hillary and Hagel just looks like a old fart that is a sore loser and so bitter everything on him is puckered.
AdLib : Murph – McCain is the embodiment of entitlement and a spoiled brat. He exhibits it, so oblivious to how he makes himself look so small.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally and Choice….I hope Hagel makes them all rue the day….
choicelady : Murph – that is how I started my entire career: museum docent. And crowd counter. Had a little clicker that I pressed to count the house. I’ve come a long way, baby!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…my take as well….McCain’ s principal mantra is “I’ve been robbed….(0f my admiral’s stripe, my dad’s approval, my legacy as a great Senator, my first nomination to the Pres. and my White House when I got the nomination) so I get to be a nasty small minded bully!
AdLib : All the trumped up outrages on things far in the past, the Repubs looked like desperate losers and with all their bitterness they can’t stop this nom.
choicelady : Sally – I have family from NE. Hagel IS one to hold a grudge – and I’m delighted!
SallyT : They better hope Hagel isn’t the type of guy to hold a grudge.
choicelady : Murph – sorry, I did not see the hearing at ALL. AdLib and Sally – you have any takes on it all? Outside of the Three Chickenhawks condemning Hagel’s ‘lack of understanding’ of the military, of course. THAT I heard about.
AdLib : Very cool, CL!
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….we probably will have to be volunteer docents…
AdLib : Murph – Yes, we discussed Hagel, McCain looked like a five year old brat and the Repubs looked like they were just throwing a tantrum. The votes seem to be there for Hagel so it’s all just pettiness and dumb pointless games.
choicelady : Murph – I can live with being an exhibit guide…
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…WoW!
choicelady : Murph – I once helped document a huge piece of machinery that had been taken to the UK to help with major construction. My friend needed documentation that I provided from the US manufacturer, Bucyrus Erie. Only when I was done and discovered there was a plaque on it thanking me did I ALSO discover it was a designated “Ancient Monument”. It had been made the year AFTER I was born.
MurphTheSurf3 : ONE SERIOUS QUESTION….did you all talk about the Hagele hearing? If so, what’s the take here at PPOV?
AdLib : CL – Never handled a switchboard but amazing that in that span of time, we went from the TWX to the fax to email. Wow…
SallyT : Oh, wait, it was PacMan that they heard!
SallyT : They heard the sounds of the missiles and stuff. AdLib, we were much more quiet when we were making love!
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…ok, we will be guides in the museum…”over here are primitive tools used by early humanity to communicate…. “
choicelady : AdLib – OMG – I operated a TWX, too!!! And a plug-in switchboard!
AdLib : Sally – Very funny! So they heard that and assumed you were playing on an Atari? Heh!
choicelady : Murph – Speak for yourself! I’m perfectly willing to put the technology in an exhibit but I AM NOT GOING WITH IT!
SallyT : AdLib, I remember Atari. I was working for a trucking company and we all got one at cost because we hauled them for Atari all over the country. My husband and I stayed up all night playing it. It was for the girls Christmas and we didn’t want them to know we got it. They kept coming to the door and saying, “What are you guys doing in there?” We of course were yelling and shouting, its my turn! They caught on that we had an Atari so it wasn’t a surprise at present opening.
AdLib : In a very brief job, I operated a TWX machine.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- you and I, and a few others here could be museum exhibits.
choicelady : Murph – I ran two Assembly District campaigns for McGovern – and that mimeo is what I used. Yuck.
AdLib : I remember playing video games on my friends new Atari.
choicelady : I have Mac at work, PC at home, and it does make some Word documents highly incompatible. It shouldn’t but does. Very annoying. I do prefer Mac for its multiscreen capacity. I’m on PC now and find it perfectly OK but some annoying in its refusal to open new windows easily.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…..did you try typing out masters on mimeo….and then had to transfer them to the mimeo machine where they filled with ink….what a mess….
SallyT : I don’t remember what my first computer was but it was just a glorified typewriter. Nothing else really.
choicelady : Murph – oh God – the GEL!!! I worked as a clerk in a university office with a copier that had paper on a roll. You could slide the length bar and get longer or shorter pieces. The faculty did not know that. One came out of the copy room looking forlorn and said, “It’s cuttin’ ‘em off at the knees!” I still laugh at his consternation!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…I went from a Tandy….to a Commodore…to a Apple II-E…and I have been a Mac user (by preference) ever since….althoug h I have been forced to use a PC at times
AdLib : Murph – Mine was an Apple IIe. Two big floppy drives, no hard drive, no graphics, just text.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- as a young teacher – a ditto master that still used the gel and not the liquid…
choicelady : Murph – LOL!! I’ve not heard of Tandy in a kajillion years! Wow – takes me back!
AdLib : CL – Yes! It was so futuristic, having a typewriter where you could hit a “correction” key, so cool back then!
choicelady : Sally! Carbon paper – YUCK! Think how my granddaughter will never know the ‘joys’ of all that – or mimeographs, dittos, all that stuff.
MurphTheSurf3 : My first computer was a Tandy.
SallyT : We were talking about the carbon paper and getting it in the wrong way. Changing the ribbon and getting it all over the paper and you.
AdLib : Sally – Had the dictionary and thesaurus nearby, you had to check and confirm before you typed it. I did love the correction tape and white out!
choicelady : AdLib – and we thought it was hot stuff when we got the self correcting Selectrics. It was fine if you had Courier – but if you had proportional spacing, you lived in fear of typing a w when you needed an i – or vice versa – because you could NOT fix it. I love computers for that reason. But this freaking grant letter cannot be done online so the first step – typed.
SallyT : Oh, I know AdLib, and you had to know how to spell!
AdLib : Personally I don’t miss the days of using typewriters. If you wrote something lengthy, having to correct misspellings and making revisions meant a dreadful full retyping!
choicelady : AdLib – a hotfoot! What fun!
choicelady : AdLib. Yes. But…
AdLib : CL – Neither matter or energy can be destroyed, only converted. So, Bito as he was isn’t here…but…
choicelady : Sally – we are doing a grant online, but part of it cannot be done there and yet has to be typed. We had to hunt through cabinets to find the typewriter, and out it comes Monday! Hope it still works! Where WOULD I find a ribbon?
AdLib : Murph – I have a feeling that wherever he is, Bito is blogging about this conversation.
choicelady : Murph – oh I hope so! Since one cannot destroy energy, I want his to be out there coherent and aware of our love for him! And noticing once again our foibles. We so depended on him for help! Thank you, bito, wherever you are!
AdLib : CL – Bring a box of matches and give them a hotfoot!
SallyT : That’s funny, CL, because a friend and I were just talking about when all we had was a manual typewriter to learn on.
AdLib : CL – Yes, the constant game playing is exhausting and so pointless. BTW, read up on Unite Blue and saw that many who joined it were targeted by the RWs to get suspended by Twitter. More BS game playing accomplishing nothing. Hate that stuff!
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally and Choice…you know that Bito (in whatever plane of existence) has to be laughing at this interchange.
choicelady : AdLib – only problem with arm twisting is that a couple of the legislators are very tall. For me it’s ankle biting!
SallyT : You are never alone, Murph.
choicelady : Murph and Sally – I thought I was the champ on technological idiocy. After all, I AM “Queen of the No.2 Pencil”!!
AdLib : CL – Great! And don’t spare the arm twisting!
MurphTheSurf3 : SallyT…ok, good to have company.
SallyT : I’m sorry, Murph, but I hold that title!
choicelady : AdLib – I’m emailing PDFs of HOPE around and Monday afternoon I’m walkin’ the halls nagging. We will see what happens.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…I was a Tech disaster…..
choicelady : Murph – you may have been unfamiliar with PPOV, but LAME? Never!
choicelady : Sally – indeed. One of the best parts of Vox and PPOV is the positive and affirmative work we all do here. I just get exhausted by both the extreme R and L in their screaming. Maybe it’s age, but I am beyond the point where that makes ANY sense to me anymore.
AdLib : CL – Yep, I like that, it’s how people should be remembered, for how wonderful they were and all the folks who knew them having a great time.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….Bito welcomed me to the Planet and was my principal guide in the first few days (with Ad Lib and Kalima a close second). He was extraordinary in getting me to feel ok about my lameness.
SallyT : It is already there, it comes down to us, CL.
choicelady : AdLib – absolutely wireless. Can you contemplate the extension cord? Yikes!
choicelady : Murph – you have the same positive reflection and open heartedness bito did. It’s impossible not to see you both in the same light.
AdLib : Wireless, for sure.
choicelady : AdLib – My sister-in-law’s father died at age 51 back in the 70s, and it was a huge loss of a wonderful man. I could not get back east to sit shiva, but my folks did, and they said everyone was laughing, telling GREAT stories about him, and loving every minute of retelling who he was. That’s the function of wakes and everything joyous about the end of life – great memories and loving experiences.
AdLib : Sally –
SallyT : No pop ups!
SallyT : High speed!
AdLib : Do they have broadband in Heaven?
AdLib : Got to get used to not seeing Bito’s name appearing up there during Vox, he’d always pop in, hang out, make a few comments here and there then head back to Twitter or call it a night.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice! How kind. A very powerful and touching compliment.
choicelady : Murph! I thought I’d missed you since I also just got here. How are you? I’ve been thinking of you, too, in memory of bito. The two of you reminded me always of each other.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally….at a concert….an evening with Sibelius….
AdLib : Hey Murph! Good to see you, thanks so much!
AdLib : CL – I do believe in celebrating the life of someone who has passed away. The amazing collection of prayers, poetry, songs and remembrances really is a meaningful tribute to Bito. We can celebrate his life through the music thread.
SallyT : Murph, where you been? It is too dark for gardening.
choicelady : Sally – You’re right. KT will do it beautifully. His choices are always excellent – and often things I’d long forgotten or never knew. Always a learning experience for me along with an emotional one.
MurphTheSurf3 : Hello whoever is still here and a shout out to our friend Bito
SallyT : KT will handle it. He is very into people’s feelings. He’ll pick the set up just right.
choicelady : AdLib- EXCELLENT! The FOX that cried wolf!
choicelady : Oh wow- I’ve been thinking all day of bito and how amazing he was. I took out my Eastern Airlines Strike Shirt – he had one, too – and hung it up for him. You’re right, AdLib – whatever we do on the music thread – it should not be somber but joyous because he was.
AdLib : I think some of the unraveling may come from people seeing that all the hysteria over Obama destroying America was bullshit and that there was no need for them to be stressed out and fearful and angry all the time from watching Fox. The Fox who cried wolf?
SallyT : I think people are getting tire of it and would like to look up and ahead for awhile instead of down and back.
choicelady : Sally – especially the old folks! Do you want to (as KT wrote for bito) rage, rage always or do you want to unclench your teeth and fist, and relax and enjoy the remains of your days? My mother seethed her way into death – it was NOT pretty.
AdLib : KT – You can dedicate the music thread to Bito, as you should but it can be to celebrate his sense of humor, his gravatar of “We Are One”, songs about being strong, smart, principled, any of his traits. It’s your call but it need not be solemn.
SallyT : People are also seeing that the things they have been saying and selling on FOX (that goes for the GOLD, too) haven’t been happening or true.
choicelady : AdLbi – I do wonder how often someone can hear: Muslim! Un-American! Socialist! RAdical! Liberal! Sky is falling! before they get incredibly tired of it all?
SallyT : ADLib, that is exactly how FOX explained it themselves. I really don’t think so. I think people are starting to get real tired of all the doom and gloom. Even the old folks.
AdLib : Night KT, sleep well, pal!
SallyT : You’ll figure it out, KT, and it will be just right!
AdLib : I wouldn’t put too much into the Fox ratings. With Obama and Dems winning the election and all the face-offs against Repubs lately, I think many of the Fox faithful have just tuned out for a while out of depression but once the 2014 race heats up, they’ll be back. Even so, I would think that their radical extremism has finally been boring and turning off some viewers who used to put up with them. Bottom line, I think they are losing viewers but maybe not as many permanently.
choicelady : KT – whatever you pick for bito, it will be wonderful. It always is.
choicelady : KT – yes, it’s the midnight hour for you! Have a lovely weekend. Hope it’s decent weather? Sweet dreamsd!
KillgoreTrout : I am a bit conflicted about this weekend’s music thread. I want it to be a memorial to bito, but I don’t want it to be over sentimental and gloomy. I don’t think bito would want that! I’ll figure it out.
SallyT : KT, you have a good night rest. I will be watching for the music this weekend!
SallyT : He meant they were too old and oh you get the picture.
SallyT : Bill Maher said that FOX was losing its ratings because their viewers can’t find the remote!
KillgoreTrout : Well, Ad, Sally and CL, I must sign off for now.
AdLib : I would also propose that Al Jazeera, unshackled by the corporate and commercial chains that all other news networks are, could very well become the premiere tv news source in the nation. It will take time, many people will begin with prejudices against the “Muslim” news channel but as time goes by, I think they will attract a majority who want real news and not hype and propaganda.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, the B Man certainly taught me a thing or two.
SallyT : MSNBC is gaining on them.
SallyT : Did you see that post I put up that shows that FOX had its lowest ratings in a decade? They are losing it.
SallyT : CL, I think it will be called AlJazeera America.
KillgoreTrout : Far too many Americans have to learn that not everything Arabic in nature is something to be feared or looked down on. I look forward to Al Jazeera helping to make that a possibility.
AdLib : KT – Yep, Bito was a teacher though in an organic way, he brought the truth to people and shared it like it was something valuable…which it was.
SallyT : They are 24 hours and no advertising. Gore said that he couldn’t compete with our corporate own news but AlJazeera has deep pockets and can provide the news that is important.
AdLib : As time goes by, I bet we’ll see Al Jazeera’s finally being able to get into the US market 24 hours (they were being blocked by the RW from getting a 24 hour channel in the US and have only a PBS slot) as being a real boon to Americans and the flow of real news.
choicelady : that’s with an N. I can’t type tonight.
SallyT : CL, it is final. Al Gore was on Jon Stewart and he said that some of the programming would stay the same but they would be making changes.
choicelady : Hi AdLib, KT – yes, if there is transcedence after death, bito is off somewhere getting some ectoplasm to see reason. He was always fact based, bless his heart!
KillgoreTrout : Good to see you you CL. Bitohistory will definitely be missed. I like to believe that he has graduated with flying colors with respect to my believe that we are all here to learn, and to teach. Bito definitely did that.
choicelady : Sally – is the sale final? I can’t get Current now because it’s in the extra expensive tier, but when I look, it still SAYS Current. Is the name going to stay the same? I LIKE Al Jazeera news service. Can’t say about programs.
AdLib : Hey CL! We have been carrying on as Bito would have insisted on but he has never been far from my thoughts tonight.
SallyT : Only thing is that they are not on the lower cost cable packages. You have to pay for the next level to get them. FOX and CNN are on the lower. MSNBC is higher, too.
AdLib : What I think Jon was totally wrong about was not focusing on the benefit of having an independently funded 24 hour news organization…t hat can afford to honestly cover all the news out there…includin g climate change. I have been so frustrated with the corporately owned news channels depriving us of news and focusing on the exploitation of just a few stories. Now, we could have a real news org informing our nation. And Jon rags about their being foreign and owning oil? What about his network? Owned by Viacom and headed by RW Corporate pig Sumner Redstone! That’s better?
choicelady : Sally – HI! Out buying sweat pants for my husband. Oh, dinner, too!! Such excitement!
SallyT : KT, they are going to just crap big ones if they really take off fast.
SallyT : You are never too late, CL! Been wondering where you were.
KillgoreTrout : I got an expected kick from the RWer’s responses about the sale. They were foaming at the mouth, in all their anti Muslim paranoia.
choicelady : Hi all – sorry I’m so late! Hope you are well – or as well as can be with the loss of beloved bito. Sigh.
SallyT : Al Gore told Jon that Hillary said that AlJazeera was not the problem. They were good to watch and learn from.
SallyT : When Jon hit Gore on selling to a Oil country, Gore listed off all the environmental things that country is doing like solar and wind. They are one of the biggest in development.
AdLib : She is so seasoned, she’s been through Bill’s heated campaigns, through a very tough and at times mean campaign against Obama (though I felt she was the one crossing the line), she’s had to deal with the media attacking and villianizing her and now she has them praising her. She knows it all, been there, done that. She would wipe up the floor with the Repub, I’m confident of that.
KillgoreTrout : Sally, I didn’t know that. That is a plus for them in my book.
SallyT : KT, did you know that AlJazeera has not advertising?
SallyT : I know, AdLib, she said “Turkey????” He got that from FOX!
KillgoreTrout : I agree Ad. I think the sale to Al Jazeera was a good thing for American journalism. maybe our cable news networks can learn a thing or two about real reporting.
AdLib : I loved when Rand Paul asked her about his RW nutjob theory, about arms being secretly given…to Turkey? And she answered him like, “Are you fuckin’ nuts?”
SallyT : Did you watch the computer after, AdLib. Gore wasn’t backing down.
SallyT : One of the reasons Romney lost was because he only watched FOX polling.
AdLib : yes, saw Gore on Stewart, he was merciless on Gore about selling Current to Al Jazeera. I don’t agree with his harping on that.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, as Sally has pointed out to, the GOPers were so hard on her over the embassy attacks in Libya because they really do fear her. I think they realize just how difficult it would be to defeat her.
SallyT : One thing in watching that panel in questioning Hillary was seeing how much those Republicans watch FOX News! They have their facts wrong but correct as FOX gave them!
AdLib : Hillary just needs to re-edit the “3 am phone call” ad to include the Repub nom and the deal is sealed. Who do you want making the big international decisions, her or some Repub who doesn’t believe in evolution?
SallyT : I don’t think anyone would be thrilled to see another Bush run!
AdLib : Sally – So true, what Repub could match her experience in national and foreign affairs (not talking about Bill!) and the workings of Senate and Congress? And as the wife of a Pres, think of all she knows about the job and what goes on. I think she would massacre any Repub she ran against. And Jeb better stay out of the way, no one wants another Bush in the WH.
KillgoreTrout : She truly has Sally.
KillgoreTrout : The way she handled that panel on Libya, was priceless. You could see very well that she thought she dealing with children. And she was correct.
SallyT : Did you see Al Gore on Jon Stewart?
SallyT : She has gained a lot of respect out there in the wide world.
AdLib : KT – Hope so, I wasn’t crazy about Bill as Pres and things he did have damaged us economically in the big picture.
KillgoreTrout : I meant to say “a lot from Bill AND being SOS!
AdLib : KT – I have to say, I think that her time as SoS seems to have given her a kind of gravitas I hadn’t seen before in her. She would present herself as the strong woman but now it just seems to radiate from her.
SallyT : Really, AdLib, who could the Republicans put up to run against her with more experience?
KillgoreTrout : She’s got my vote. She has learned a lot from and being SOS. I think she may be slightly different than Bill was. The difference between the way a man and a woman’s world view!
AdLib : Sally – If she runs, I think Hillary will assuredly be our first woman President. She knows she would likely win and be that person in history, I have no doubt that she’ll run and win.
AdLib : I do think Hillary is more conservative a Dem than Obama, she is part of the elite and status quo crowd but after the way she and Bill supported Obama and the incredible job she did as SoS, I would support her as strongly as I did Obama.
KillgoreTrout : People can say what they will about Hillary, but that ladie has guts AND brains. She would be our American “Iron Lady.”
SallyT : AdLib, I hope she runs. I campaigned for her last time but of course I went with Obama when he was the one. A lot of people still want her to be the first woman president.
AdLib : Really, no Dem would beat Hillary in the primaries and no Repub could beat her in the GE. I think she would be the most assured lock on winning the Presidency in recent history.
KillgoreTrout : Sleep tight homie, and have a great weekend!
SallyT : There are some good ones, Glenn! And, Sarah made the paper!
KillgoreTrout : Bookmarked!
AdLib : Night Kes, sleep well my friend!
glenn : Sally–as usual, I’m looking forward to the funnies on Sunday.
kesmarn : Well, dear friends, it’s time for me to call it a day as well. Sweet dreams of a Dem victory that will give us 16 or more straight years of sanity. Have a great weekend all.
KillgoreTrout : Sweet dreams glenn
AdLib : Killgore – Very funny! You’ll have to hold onto that joke for 2016 if it happens!
SallyT : Good night, Glenn. See you later!
AdLib : Thanks so much glenn! Have a wonderful weekend!
KillgoreTrout : Ad sounds like a remake of “Dynasty!”
AdLib : What Repub could beat Hillary Clinton if she ran…and I think she absolutely will.
SallyT : The started it to keep their followers on target. Literally.
glenn : I’m out the door right behind AB. I’ll try not to let the cold in! Take care all. May your memories of your friend, Bito keep you warm and give you peace.
AdLib : COuld Jeb Bush run and win the nom in 2016? Then we could have Clinton vs. Bush again but with different family members?
SallyT : The Tea Party has started their own Facebook because they don’t like liberals coming in with the facts. (Of course that wasn’t the reason)
AdLib : Ab Love it, bitopeace to you!
kesmarn : Peace!
AlphaBitch : See you later, gators.
KillgoreTrout : Have a great weekend AB.
AlphaBitch : A candle and a tear for Bito. But I got a smile in last night as well for him. Now I have a bitopeace. xoxo
AdLib : AB – They had to be told by Jen though, that means they just don’t get it. And the same people will be picking a nominee. Works for me!
SallyT : Good night AB!
kesmarn : G’night, Frennie. A candle for the memory of dear b’ito.
glenn : ‘Night AB–have a good weekend.
AdLib : AB – My pleasure! Sleep well and have a great weekend!
AlphaBitch : Ad – they got the same memo about rape being a 4 letter word. From Jeb.
SallyT : No, he is really going to run.
AlphaBitch : OK folks. Time to close up the old machine. Nice to see you all here. Take care and we’ll see you soon. Thanks for the drinks, Ad. They helped.
kesmarn : Is he really, Sally? This is not the Onion?
glenn : AdLib–Perhaps you’re right–it sure as hell wasn’t Reagan.
AdLib : AB – To the GOP, which thought that it was okay to finance Todd Akin’s run even after his rape comments and vowing not to, it may not seem so clear.
KillgoreTrout : The GOP/TP has alienated so many Americans, that they’ll really have to make some big changes between now and 2016. Yet they are clueless as to what changes they should make. They’ll never change their ideology. They’ll just have to become better at disguising it.
SallyT : Hey, none of you commented on Geraldo running against Booker.
kesmarn : Al Haig wasn’t kidding when he said “I’m in control here.”
AdLib : glenn – In a way but it was Reagan’s cabinet and aides that seemed to be holding the reigns of power back then.
AlphaBitch : “Major flaw” and “Pissed off women” are not the same thing Ad.
kesmarn : Well, unless you count Mrs. Woodrow Wilson…
glenn : Sally–Exactly. Reagan’s second term was when we had our first woman president.
AdLib : AB – It’s been a while since the GOP didn’t nominate a candidate for Pres with a major flaw.
kesmarn : glenn, that is good news! I do miss Rachel now that I no longer have cable.
AlphaBitch : I agree glenn. They will do this when it’s much, much closer to the election under some other ruse.
AlphaBitch : Trans vaginal Bob? There go the women.
glenn : kes–don’t know if they will bring it up again closer to the election, but I saw on Rachel Maddow tonight that OH, WI, MI, and FL have given up on the electoral vote rigging. Only PA is still looking at it. I have my suspicions that they’re just biding their time to do it closer to the elections. I think they realized that they “spoke too soon” and people were watching.
AdLib : Hmm…maybe VA Gov. Bob McDonnell? He touches a lot of the bases with the GOP Elite and Baggers.
AlphaBitch : Reagan always looked like he had zombie lips.
AlphaBitch : Good one Sally.
SallyT : Embalmed Reagan has already ran. It was his second term.
KillgoreTrout : Hmmmm! Zombie Reagan. Not all that different from the living Reagan.
AlphaBitch : Jeb is going to be steering the RNC. He’s smart, guys. And married to a Mexican woman.
kesmarn : But if they manage to rig the electoral college vote, they can run Reagan’s embalmed body and win.
AlphaBitch : Or when they have to get a memo saying “rape is a four letter word”. Yep. Happened.
SallyT : It’s going to be Geraldo Rivera!
KillgoreTrout : I don’t think the GOP knows how to move forward at this point. You know they desperate when they start asking how they can become more inclusive, and they aren’t able to figure it out.
AlphaBitch : Baggers are irrelevant on the big stage, Ad. They can take house seats, some Senate seats (OMG Ted Cruz Control) but the big seat is out of their league.
AdLib : Glenn – Yes, Rubio hugely lied about his parents fleeing Castro’s Cuba as exiles…they emigrated to the US BEFORE Castro! Ouch!
kesmarn : There’s always Ayn Randy Paul…
AdLib : AB – I don’t know, he has already become hated by the Baggers and they would seem to be the determining factor in the GOP primary. Don’t forget, they had to accept the GOP Elite’s pick again with Romney and they’re really fed up with not getting a true nutjob as the nominee.
glenn : AdLib–I think Rubio pissed off a lot of Cubans when he made up a story about how his family came to Florida. Don’t know all the details, but he did lie about his family history and got called out on it. Of course, for a r/tp, that’s criteria for running. You can then complain about how the “left-leaning media” is out to get you.
AlphaBitch : I pray so, Frennie.
kesmarn : I hope so, Frennie.
AlphaBitch : He’s yesterday’s news, kes. Let’s hope anyways.
kesmarn : It wouldn’t surprise me if they shot themselves in the foot and ran Ryan on the GOP ticket.
AlphaBitch : True all that Ad. BUT you asked who I thought would be on the ticket…
KillgoreTrout : I would love to see Bo bite Hannity on the ass! How could he miss?
AdLib : Rubio is a very shallow and dishonest, extremist guy. IOW, he has a great shot at winning the nom in the Repub Party! But…Latinos won’t be pulled in by him, he’s been wrong on their issues, his immigration bill is weaker than what they want and most Latinos don’t look at Cubans as being like them.
AlphaBitch : glenn – try youtube for a Todd Snider song called “You Got Away With It”. His homage to W.
kesmarn : I can see Rove saying: “I knew Satan. Satan was a friend of mine. And you sir, are no Satan.”
AlphaBitch : Marco (Rubio) can hide under his skirts.
glenn : kes–there is no way gwb is satan. gwb is not smart enough to be satan. gwb is just a dumb redneck who got to be president through sheer dumb luck. And maybe a little help from rove and the electoral college.
kesmarn : If Bo ever did that the outrage machine on FUX would be in high gear.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, the GOP is in a real quandry as to what sort of values they must lose, and what sort they must adopt. Their recent defeat really floored them. They were positive Romney was going to win.
AlphaBitch : Disagree Ad. They will flock around him – he is a bully and will come out swinging, especially if Hillary is the nominee
AlphaBitch : One of my friends here had a dog from the same litter who had to be put down for biting. They are Bushie’s frins.
AdLib : AB – No way Christie could win a GOP primary, especially now. They hate bipartisanship.
AlphaBitch : I love how he bit that photographer. He was a biter, as many Scotties are.
kesmarn : Barney was a cutie, Sally. It wasn’t his fault he had Satan for an owner.
AlphaBitch : Jindal loses.
KillgoreTrout : LOL kes. Barney probably persihed from very bad grammar.
AlphaBitch : glenn – agreed!!
AlphaBitch : Christie/Rubio on the ticket.
glenn : AB–And I loved her parting shot yesterday about r/tp’s not living in a “reality-based world.”
SallyT : Kes, I think that was sad. I am a scottie dog fan and that was the only thing I liked about Bush.
AdLib : Any guesses on who will win the GOP nom in 2016? And who do you think will run but not win?
kesmarn : You betcha, Frennie.
AlphaBitch : Kes – he was the cutest one, too.
AlphaBitch : Rude Pundit wrote that Hillary Clinton must have spent the afternoon post Ben Ghazi hearings cleaning the ass off her shoes. Love that quote!
KillgoreTrout : The sad thing really is, that those three agencies he wanted to get rid of, were suppose to coincide with his “core values.” Like Palin’s palm pilot!
kesmarn : The smartest feller in the Bush household passed away today. Barney.
AdLib : Sally – Yes, pictograms!
SallyT : He used stick figures, AdLib.
glenn : Sally–but where was that foot when he wrote on it?
AlphaBitch : Karl Rove, Tom DeLay, Louie Gohmert, Joe Barton, George W. Bush – need I go on to prove my state’s idiocy???
AdLib : Sally – Who told you that Perry knows how to write?
kesmarn : He needs a “foot up” all right!
SallyT : I heard that Perry didn’t write on his hand like Palin. He wrote on his foot because he was told he needed a foot up in the debates.
AdLib : Hey Sally!
AlphaBitch : Hi Sally
kesmarn : G’night, cyrano!
KillgoreTrout : Sally is in da widget! Good evening my friend!
kesmarn : Hey, Sally! glenn!
AlphaBitch : Ciao Cyrano! Please come back soon.
KillgoreTrout : Too funny AB!
glenn : Sally–Hi, how are you?
AlphaBitch : No way now Ad. Fracking money has filled our coffers.
glenn : kes–you’re bad. I love it!
cyrano1 : Ciao!
AdLib : AB – I think we discussed this once, isn’t there an economic time bomb coming for TX in 2014? Perry and the GOP Leg used accounting tricks and pushed off debts until then…and have been using up the Rainy Day Fund…I think TX economy implodes in 2014.
AlphaBitch : KT: I had a sticker that quoted Perry “When I’m in, I’m in ALL THE WAY” followed by my edit: “So said Perry to numerous women, men and unsuspecting sheep”
SallyT : Good evening to you all.
kesmarn : You have to be able to write to do that. AB.
AlphaBitch : He didn’t write on his hand/fingers like Princess Palin, Ad
KillgoreTrout : AB, I glad to see none of his “stupid,” rubbed off on you!
AdLib : Kes: Very funny! Yep, the TX/Repub/Conserv ative poster boy, Rick Perry, couldn’t even count three things he was against using his fingers. Ouch!
cyrano1 : I like educated blue better than embattled blue. We need to educate EVERYONE!!
kesmarn : They’re tied up and gagged in AB’s basement, glenn.
AlphaBitch : I was a girl at Texas A&M in the 70s. You had to be sharp to stay alive there. Bunch of crackers.
KillgoreTrout : Perry could definitely be associated with the southern end of a north bound horse! Or elephant!
glenn : AB–That tipping point can’t come quickly enough for me! But that’s good news about your friends. Are you helping them “rethink?”
AlphaBitch : Right, Ad. And Bexar county – 70% Hispanic – is now bluer than before. Carried Obama. Course there are still Houstink and Dumbass.
cyrano1 : Yep! Austin and huge pieces of San Antonio.
AlphaBitch : I taught ‘em glenn.
KillgoreTrout : Texas, where the men are men and the sheep are scared!
cyrano1 : AB: Best news I’ve heard all day!
AdLib : In TX, you have some really ignorant, conservative people in certain Repub strongholds but you can’t get more Progressive than Austin.
kesmarn : Seriously, AB?! How did you turn out so smart and he ended up not being able to remember three points even counting on his fingers?
glenn : AB–did you attend the creationism classes with perry?
AlphaBitch : Glenn – I have to say that I see some friends – once solid Rs – now rethinking their loyalties. A tipping point has arrived, I think.
KillgoreTrout : When I moved from Boston to SoCal, It was definitely culture shock.
AlphaBitch : Want to hear something really scary KT? Perry and I went to the same school.
glenn : AdLib–the south is becoming more progressive because more progressives are moving from the north as they retire. I think that’s why “true” southerners are fighting so hard to keep their “culture”.
KillgoreTrout : AB, I DO think the culture in New England is a bit different from other states. Not a whole lot different, but definitely not the same.
AdLib : Killgore – Maybe that’s because for his final in animal husbandry, Perry married an ass and ass-u-med it would get him an “A”.
cyrano1 : Progressive areas: around college towns. Like Tallahassee in a state full of really stooopid people.
kesmarn : That’s my sense, AdLib. That what used to be southern culture is now more diffusely distributed, but just as maddening.
AlphaBitch : KT Heavy on the “HUSBAND”ry, if you catch my drift.
AdLib : Kes – KT mentioned that Southern OH has the more conservative people. If that’s the case, it does seem to reflect in a general way, not a defining way, that The South is perhaps simultaneously a geographical and cultural grouping. Of course, there are many Dems and Progressives throughout the South so this is not meant as an absolute.
KillgoreTrout : Perry studied Animal Husbandry in college, and graduated with a C average! Bwaaaaaaaaa!
cyrano1 : The more progressive areas seem to be urban and diverse
AlphaBitch : I found it easy, lovely and refreshing to move among the northerners this fall when Blov and I took our 6000 mile car trip. Treated like sweet friends even if from TX. The anti-Romney sticker helped, I think. Especially in VT and ME.
kesmarn : There you have it, cyrano. There’s the Michelle Bachmann voter in the north. A mystery. And then there are progressive areas in the south.
glenn : AdLib–As one who was born in the north and moved to the south as a teenager, I can attest to the fact that there is a northern culture. It’s more diverse than the southern culture, but there is a difference.
AlphaBitch : Julian and Joaquin Castro are the ones to watch. George P. Bush (his mother is Mexican) just moved to Ft. Worth to try and become governor next. Another Bush. Yikes.
cyrano1 : My son in law is from Minnesota. Definitely a culture there. Home of Michelle Bachmann. He escaped to the West coast.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, I would say people in the south are more laid back. The move at a slightly slower pace, which I think is refreshing, coming from the hustle bustle of the north.
AdLib : AB – With a Gov like Perry as the GOP braintrust in the state, I know you and many Progressives down there have got to be so anxious for the Latino population there to finally help Dems overtake that state!
kesmarn : I do think there’s a distinction, AdLib. There’s definitely a Southern culture, I agree. But there’s for sure a sub set here in Ohio that is totally onboard with that neo-Confederate head.
AlphaBitch : POINTS for kerfufel!
foodchain : Kes, it doesn’t stop. You keep being a parent/caretaker but gosh darnit, better than alone
KillgoreTrout : Wow, Sounds like a Perry kerfufel! Santorum would be a lot smater if he were so self enclosed by his religious fanaticism.
AlphaBitch : Whew. Thanks God as my chirren say.
kesmarn : Just a bad cold, AB. She’ll be okay.
glenn : kes–hope your little one gets better soon.
kesmarn : Oh we’ve been through those missteps in love around here too, food…
AdLib : Kes, do you think there is a difference between culture and region? I kind of think they are married together. The Southern culture separates a majority in the South from those in the North. There isn’t really a Northern culture I don’t think.
AlphaBitch : What’s wrong with that child kes?
foodchain : Kes, oh no! I only have pups and adult children who misstep in love–bad enough
glenn : kes–o.k.
AlphaBitch : KT: It was Santorum. I was right. Perry is too stupid to even know that.
kesmarn : Hahaha …see below, glenn. Derrrrrr…
glenn : kes–Not sure what you mean–I think it’s foodchain who’s going to the party.
kesmarn : Oops, I meant “foodchain.” Typed glenn. Can you tell I’ve been taking care of a sick child since 6:30 a.m.?
foodchain : SMiles on my face; Mmmmmm
foodchain : Oh, AB, YEP!
foodchain : he was wonderful. Which of us wouldn’t want the same?
AlphaBitch : FC: Let’s music again – but with some happy tunes next time.
kesmarn : Let hubby cook and sit back and enjoy then glenn!
foodchain : Ad, thank you again. It means a lot
KillgoreTrout : glenn, that sounds like it comes from Perry’s Greatest Hits.
foodchain : Don’t have a dog in the hunt; hubby wants to cooks! Good friends
AlphaBitch : I mean Ad. Why did I answer myself?
AdLib : Night FC! And again, your comment for Bito was just wonderful!
glenn : good night food chain
AlphaBitch : Not Perry. He’s too dumb to know that.
AlphaBitch : AB – they’ll just move to where you are and dirty your nest.
kesmarn : G’night, food! Enjoy that Smokin’Butt party!
glenn : Was it Santorum or Perry (I always get the dicks mixed up) who said “smart people won’t vote for us?”
KillgoreTrout : Sweet dreams FC!
AlphaBitch : Have fun FC. Good to see you! May your team win.
foodchain : I know KT! lol
AlphaBitch : 40% of our country sucks, folks. It’s just the truth.
foodchain : Gonna crash friends. Party on Sunday–for the heck of it> “Smoking Butt Super Bowl” he calls it
AdLib : AB – That’s a limited time financial bubble though, once the groundwater is all polluted and water starts costing those same Texans a fortune, the gold rush will be over.
KillgoreTrout : Het FC, I’m not sure that is spelled with one K or two?
cyrano1 : Fox honed hate message to the “edicated eeleet”
foodchain : Mother Frakers! I’m with that
kesmarn : There’s an anti-intellectua l, quasi-libertaria n culture in some lower income segments of the populations. It’s as though there are neo-Confederates sprinkled all throughout the population now.
AlphaBitch : Billy Joe Shaver.
foodchain : Kes, they are one and the same: cultureal and geo
AlphaBitch : Ad: to quote Billy Joe Shave: I had a good Christian raisin’ and an 8th grade education and I don’t know why you’re treating me this way….
KillgoreTrout : AB, Yoko Ono and her son Sean have a song out now called “Don’t Frak My Mother.” Pretty funny. Mother Frakers!
cyrano1 : More cultural than geographical? I don’t think the civil war is over quite yet?
kesmarn : AdLib, I wonder if the divide is more cultural than geographical.
AlphaBitch : I personally know of two people who are now multi, multi millionaires thx to fracking.
AdLib : Kes – Hmm…so those parents don’t have high hopes for their kids’ education and futures? I don’t get it.
kesmarn : Exactly, glenn.
AdLib : glenn – Absoutely, this divide between North and South, progress and regress, will become wider. It’s not good for the nation and it will especially be bad for the South.
AlphaBitch : Ad – here in TExas we have sooooooooo many people now getting billions – YES BILLIONS – in leasing land for fracking. Good ole boys with land that was only used for Dick Cheney to shoot his friend in the face – now raking in $$$ because of fracking.
KillgoreTrout : Manufacturing jobs are far and few between. That’s a big reason for our poor economy.
glenn : kes–that’s how the r/tp’s want to keep Americans. Struggling to survive, who’s got time to run for school board, help kids with homework, keep up with what your local/state politicians are doing. I’m not blaming them either; it’s just so infuriating!
cyrano1 : Looks like non-union jobs are pretty much nation-wide now. Down to 10%
kesmarn : My fundie relatives actually took their kids there (Creation Museum) and expected the kids to come back and debate their biology teachers on evolution. What a thing to do to a kid.
AdLib : AB – But are there really that many manufacturing jobs to be had that could be moved from North to South? And as we know, they would be non-union, poorly paid jobs that would further depress the wages of the others in the South working manufacturing jobs. I don’t see how it works. A reckoning is coming for The South if the Progressives down there can’t wrest control away from those taking their people backwards into ignorance and poverty.
KillgoreTrout : Cyrano, yep. That’s were dinosauers were saddles! LOL
AlphaBitch : Where Chuck Norris rides a dinosaur…
kesmarn : Thanks KT. I don’t blame the parents. They’re struggling just to survive.
cyrano1 : Field trips to the “intelligent design” science museum?
KillgoreTrout : Great point kes. I think you are spot on.
AlphaBitch : I agree with kes.
kesmarn : Weirdly, no, AdLib. I think they think I’m crazy for being concerned about this. So many two income families. I think school is free day care for them and that’s all they worry about.
cyrano1 : Cali ain’t Texas is it? The regional differences are horrendous!
glenn : AdLib–And won’t that classism further polarize the country? Of course, I guess r/tp’s don’t care about that.
AdLib : Kes – Then aren’t the parents there up in arms? It would be a massive fight at our school if such a thing was going on here in Cali.
KillgoreTrout : “Those who know the least, obey the best.” Farquar
kesmarn : AdLib, business leaders in Ohio just sent a letter to K-sick saying he MUST do something about the school system. They’re having trouble finding functional/liter ate workers.
AlphaBitch : The south would be happy to take all manufacturing from the north. They figure it’s how they lost the last battle.
AlphaBitch : Might they not just fit in well with the right to work ethos???
AlphaBitch : FIND GOOD PEOPLE THAT YOU KNOW AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO RUN FOR SCHOOL BOARDS.
KillgoreTrout : “Teacher, leave those kids alone!”
AdLib : Doesn’t it seem possible that the blowback from all of this could be a severe classism that ends up producing poorly educated kids from the South and better educated kids from the North, making it a handicap and a stigma for kids from the South to get the better jobs…which would impoverish the South more and create a brain drain. I like to project decades ahead, how much will a NW OH or TX public school education be worth out there with employers? Might it not become a red flag?
kesmarn : I will “say” not “way.”!
glenn : AB–These people are really scary. It’s one thing to spout off ignorance as a politician, but to actually teach it!
kesmarn : Yes, glenn, they do have to pass the tests. They do teach reasonable math/reading skills, I will way. But they throw in this religious element then. And they neglect history/civics.
KillgoreTrout : The most religious and “conservative part of Ohio is the South west. Those folks are strictly Bible Belt. All the way.
AlphaBitch : Read that Gail Collins book, folks. Get it at your libraries before you lose those too.
kesmarn : That is it, AB! “They” are taking over the school boards.
AlphaBitch : Ad: Onward ignorant don’t have to be white Christian soldiers.
glenn : kes–does Ohio have the nationwide mania for testing? If so, how do these kids pass the tests? I know charter schools don’t have to pass the same tests, but don’t the public school kids have to pass?
AlphaBitch : School board elections MATTER – big time. We’re learning that down here. Save yourselves.
kesmarn : Not really, AdLib. Toledo is very lib-Democrat. Some of the rural areas are more conservative. I think this might be the Seven Mountains thing in action.
KillgoreTrout : Is it just me, or does Wayne LaPierre look strikingly like a television evangelist?
AdLib : Yes, AB, onward ignorant Christian soldiers.
AlphaBitch : Glenn – it started with the Rs gaining control of school boards decades ago. The fruits are just beginning to “ripen”.
cyrano1 : Texas board of education: The new standard for sub-standards
AdLib : Kes – is NW OH a very conservative section of the state?
AlphaBitch : Oh kes. We have Perry as Guv.
glenn : AB–how is that legal in public schools? How in the world do these people get away with this?
AlphaBitch : And soldiers, Ad.
kesmarn : AB, Texas has denounced the teaching of “higher order thinking” no?
KillgoreTrout : Welcome aboard. I think it’s a great feature. Moves along pretty quickly.
AlphaBitch : Glenn – I’ll tell you for kes. It’s true.
kesmarn : Sad but true, friends.
AdLib : Charter schools represent three “gets” for Repubs. They get to pocket public tax money in their private hands, they get to indoctrinate kids into poor educations that are Bible-based and they get to undermine the government system of education, producing less educated and easier to manipulate people.
AlphaBitch : Cyrano: you gots da Palins?
glenn : kes–Please tell me that’s not true.
AlphaBitch : Thank the TX Public Policy Foundation for that, kes.
cyrano1 : Hey KT. I’m tryin’ this here Vox whatever thingy!
kesmarn : Just over the last couple of weeks I discovered that right here in NWOhio there are schools where kids are being shown bible story videos in social science classes instead of learning how the government works. And parenting classes are based on Dr. Dobson’s Focus on the Family programs. Public schools!!
KillgoreTrout : Hey Cyrano!
glenn : KT–saw that Stewart show. Loved the picture of President Obama packin’!
cyrano1 : Stewart makes me want to continue living
KillgoreTrout : The gun nuts (guided by FOX Snooze) are upset about Obama’s claim that he Skeet Shoots. Stewart had a pretty funny opening about it.
AdLib : Kes –
AlphaBitch : No, its that there testing and accredidation make money for big R donors.
cyrano1 : And through charter schools… from whence I came and rose, my grandchildren can descend….
glenn : Ab–Well that’s why those charter schools need more money, dontcha know? We can’t have them sitting on the floor, right?
AlphaBitch : Pearl handled, no doubt!
AlphaBitch : Oh kes!
kesmarn : Lindsey probably has a cute little pistol in his garter belt.
AdLib : Cyrano – Indeed, the goal is to ghettoize public schools and create an upper class public school system for the…less colorful children.
AlphaBitch : YUCK KT! Stop that!
kesmarn : There you have it, cyrano.
KillgoreTrout : Worse yet, Stop or Lindsey Graham will kiss you!
AlphaBitch : NO kidding cyrano!
glenn : AdLib–Stop or the House Crier (Boehner) will shoot you!
AlphaBitch : Ad – Gail Collins documents “schools” which were held in churches where the desks were the pews. The chirren had to sit on the floor and write on the pews. Unf*in believeable.
cyrano1 : Charter schools: Continuing the road towards complete polarization and class divide. What could go wrong?
kesmarn : It would be debatable which one was “higher” — K-Sick or Beelzbub.
AdLib : “Stop or Miss Lindsey Graham will Shoot You.”
AlphaBitch : Well, who could that possibly be? S-A-T-A-N?????
KillgoreTrout : Ad, good one. That’s pretty funny.
AdLib : AB – There just isn’t enough oversight on charter schools, some are good, some are horrible. Sure don’t want them dominating public education.
kesmarn : Oh yeah! KT and AB, our gov says anyone who opposes him will have to “answer to a higher power.” Would that be the Koch brothers?
AlphaBitch : “Stop or my six year old will shoot you”
AdLib : KT – Stallone came out against assault weapons? Guess that means he’s prepping for the sequel to “Stop or My Mother Will Shoot You.”
KillgoreTrout : kes, are we goona be judged by a “higher power,” and Bishop Kasick?
AlphaBitch : OMG Kes! REad Gail Collins “As Texas Goes”. Yowza! I’m a scarit of those charter school thingys now.
KillgoreTrout : Oh, just gliding along, as usual.
kesmarn : I think K-suck’s latest is channeling $$$ to private/charter schools after having refused “Race to the Top” $$$.
AlphaBitch : He should know, KT. Still doing action movies when you are what – a 100?
AdLib : AB – Yes there are the idjits who vote against their own interests then there are the ones who vote against their own interests not because they’re dumb but they’re religious about voting GOP.
AlphaBitch : I like to think of John Jr. in one.
KillgoreTrout : Sylvester (Rambo) Stallone has come out against assault weapons. I guess his heart is in the right place, but he says mental illness is the bigger problem. WTF?
kesmarn : Teddy would have looked adorable in a tiara.
AlphaBitch : What has ‘Ksuck done?
AlphaBitch : A little tight. I got the Teddy K syndrome – fat face, big head.
kesmarn : Hey, KT, my Ohio homie! Kasick is still making life interesting for us all.
glenn : Thanks, KT, got some paperwork organized these past couple of days. And you?
KillgoreTrout : Hey homie!
AlphaBitch : Ad there ae some stupid ass people in this country. They vote against their own self interests. I just f*cking shot myself.
kesmarn : Frennie! How’s that tiara fittin’?
KillgoreTrout : Good to see ya glenn Hope all is well!
kesmarn : Hey, glenn!
AlphaBitch : FRENNIE
AdLib : Evening Kes! Wow, that brings back memories!
AlphaBitch : FINALLY someone on Stephanie Miller brought up the G.D. body armor. Why don’t they just trace those damn things? Put in some exploding pink dye if they are ever put on?
glenn : Evening kes, evening KT
AdLib : AB – Still bewilders me how a majority of Americans can be denied what they want by GOP corporate lobbyists but the Repubs haven’t sunk to below 40% of voters.
kesmarn : “…looking into possible grounds for the impeachment of President Nixon…” I was listening to a vintage radio show on archive.org and fell into a time warp when the news came on after the CBS Mystery Hour. Weird… Good Friday evening, all.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, i doubt it. If so, they will not address the full problem. Maybe some small efforts in an attempt to appease those against assault weapons.
foodchain : I’d like clip bans, more like assault weapons ban
cyrano1 : The one we need to be careful about is keeping a database of mentally challenged people. That could be a real hornet’s nest.
AlphaBitch : FC: not as dim as the Repubs chance of ever being relevant again.
foodchain : Well, another sad topic. I hope our shit Congress and SEnate stand for something. My hopes are there but dim
AlphaBitch : yeppers that would be my guess
AdLib : At least Universal Background Checks, if not an assault weapon ban or magazine restrictions?
AlphaBitch : Yes but not the tough ones like semi assault bans or weapon clip bans
AdLib : So are we going to see any gun control measures passed in Congress?
KillgoreTrout : Hey FC and AB! Great to see yas.
KillgoreTrout : Likewise Ad.
foodchain : Hey KT
AlphaBitch : Hey buddy KT! Nice to see you.
foodchain : Soft cat food! forgot all about that!! Had a lot of cats.
AdLib : Hey Killgore! Nice to seeya!
KillgoreTrout : Greetings and salutations folks. What’s the rumpus?
AlphaBitch : Wow. Why does soft cat food stink so bad? Anybody?? My old cat is eating some now. P.U.
AdLib : “White Duck, Dead Duck”
cyrano1 : Hide and seek and destroy?
AlphaBitch : “Mother may I have another clip?”
AlphaBitch : “Dodge bullets”
AdLib : “Simon Shoots”
AdLib : AB:
AlphaBitch : “Red rover, red rover; I shot Jimmy in the clover”???
foodchain : Well, aB, I’m the only female left in my home of three males: one 2 legged, 2 four legged. Hormones!
AdLib : You are a queen indeed, AB!
AdLib : Hmm…schools may need to have new playground games for the next gun-trained generation of kids. “Hide and Seek…and Terminate”?
AlphaBitch : All I had to do was threaten to quit – in MARCH – and my work overload vanished. I’m queen again.
glenn : AB–You go girl!
AlphaBitch : I’m a foul mouthed B.
AdLib : AB – You’re too valuable! They’re not letting you go!
foodchain : AB, you crack me up
glenn : AlphaBitch–I just cannot imagine you using bad words (she said with tongue in cheek). Just for clarification, my tongue is firmly in my mouth, not sneaking out.
cyrano1 : need a band-aid?
foodchain : cyrano, truly~! Is this the revenge of the kids who couldn’t play King of the Hill?
AdLib : Cyrano – Well, there’s that Repub who wants 10 year olds trained in shooting guns. We may have missed out on having assault weapons as kids but maybe our kids could?
AlphaBitch : Wow that was a weird pop.
AlphaBitch : I just f*cking shot myself.
AlphaBitch : No not me. I asked to retire/get laid off – even said bad words to superiors on the elevator. NO such luck.
cyrano1 : So sad I didn’t have an assault rifle at age 6. I could have taken out that kid that was taunting me….
glenn : AlphaBitch–We seem to “jinx” often here on vp. How are you? I quickly read the first part of tonight’s vp. Are you getting laid off?
AdLib : Yes, she couldn’t remember what gun the woman had…because it was a shotgun that wouldn’t be affected by stopping assault rifles. What an idjit, she shot up her own testimony!
foodchain : Ad, Droopy Dog! Hah, Poopy dog would do as well
AlphaBitch : Right. A six year old with an assault rifle is a good thing, if you are an idiot.
AlphaBitch : JINX Glenn!
foodchain : I heard the GOP gun chick lawyer talking about how women need assault weapons becuase they were not as strong as men. GEE, I guess that means that our kids should have weapons because they are even weaker and smaller. Such brilliant logic
glenn : AdLib–Oh…and that stupid woman, what was her name…something Trotter? She knew all these “details” about this mother who shot the intruder, yet “couldn’t remember” what kind of a weapon she used. Puh-leez!
AlphaBitch : That was that women – what was her name? Trotter? – who spoke of hordes of marauding men.
AdLib : Liebermann has to keep a low profile, he’s been cast in a Broadway production of “Droopy the Dog”.
AlphaBitch : It scares me a bit. I have a friend who was murdered by her soon to be ex; when he lost control is when he turned violent, common for psycho/sociopath s
foodchain : Lieberman is VERY quiet even if unelected
AdLib : Did you hear Graham’s argument against limiting magazine clips, about how women need to have them when they have to fend of scores of attackers breaking into their home at the same time. And he described it as if it was a personal fantasy.
cyrano1 : Left just before. Was a student at Trinity U
foodchain : South Park should take on McCain and Graham
glenn : AdLib–It’s getting more and more likely that r/tp’s are getting so crazy that they’re even turning off their own people.
foodchain : AB too funny, McCaintongue
AlphaBitch : Ah, Cyrano. It’s grown but not changed much. Where you here for the hemisphere?
AlphaBitch : Remember how McCain’s tongue would dart in and out of his mouth and he would hiss “my friends”? Totally freaked me out. Hate to say it, but John Kerry is a tongue darter as well. STOP IT.
foodchain : MISS Graham, missed Graham, Masa Graham; none good
AdLib : Hey glenn! Nice to see you! I think you’re right, this is more bluster and wasteful game playing by a GOP growing more desperate and impotent every day.
cyrano1 : I lived in San Antonio in the 60′s.
AlphaBitch : I’ll run over to the Alamo and get the real Bowie knife. It’s only 20 minutes from my house.
foodchain : I think he will be confirmed. I think people will not be happy with McCain on this. His small minded revenge will not look good to too many people
AlphaBitch : That’s MISS Graham (Crackers) to you, FC.
AdLib : AB – One Vodka Tonic and a Bowie Knife, coming up!
glenn : Evening all. AdLib–yes I think Hagel will get confirmed. From all I have read, the votes are there.
AlphaBitch : Yes to Hagel, with the Repubs bitching and moaning all the way.
foodchain : The only thing soemwaht equal to McCain is the dear sweet Lindsey Graham
AdLib : So, what do folks here think, will Hagel be confirmed?
AlphaBitch : Yes, please, AD. And a knife to sear into my brain.
AlphaBitch : Yep Cyrano. Learned to shoot at age 7 (a .22), thought I was DAvy Crockett – we’ve covered this in prior VP.
AdLib : AB – Another vod-ton to clear your palate of that McCain imagery?
foodchain : Oh hey AB, watch me!! Ladies have their way
AlphaBitch : No Ad – HE was wonderful. We were just reminiscing.
cyrano1 : AB, you’re from south Texas??? Yikes!
AdLib : Just a note now, I’ll repeat it later, thanks to all of you for your kind and thoughtful comments on the tribute to Bito, they were just wonderful.
AlphaBitch : Wowee zowee. That’s a stretch from south Texas.
foodchain : AB Northern suburbs of CHICAGO!
AlphaBitch : FC: I know! Republicans???
AdLib : FC – Yes! Forgot about asking McCain, “Yes or no, after crashing 5 planes, were you right or wrong about being a good pilot?”
foodchain : McCain, the son of a rich Navy Admiral, bad grades, West Point, destroys planes, gets caught because he doesn’t follow flight orders, rats on his mates-+-and becomes a HERO. Who gets that?
AlphaBitch : Why are you insisting on making me puke, Ad? Ole yellow teeth scares me – you just know he smells bad, too.
AlphaBitch : Got it Cyrano. Herradura anejo, too.
AlphaBitch : FC: which state do you live in? Other than the state of grace, I mean.
cyrano1 : I could do with a marguerita
AdLib : Can you imagine being married to McCain? As much as Cindy is in a tie with Ann Romney for most bloodless wife of a GOP Presidential nom, it’s got to be a pretty unpleasant life.
AlphaBitch : Ad and I are having vodka tonics – can I get anyone anything?
AlphaBitch : Aw, Cyrano -it’s how we know to put down the drink and check the board…
foodchain : been awhile. wouldn’t miss tonight for anything
foodchain : John McCain need a bunch of airplanes to destroy
AlphaBitch : Ad – she also gets him depends cuz his panties are certainly in a knot these days.
AdLib : Hey Foodchain, wonderful to see you!
cyrano1 : I like the “thwop” sounds. Cute!
AlphaBitch : Hey FC! Thank you for your kind remarks on the Bito thread.
AlphaBitch : Look for incoming while firing, Cyrano.
foodchain : hey
AdLib : For his birthday, Cindy McCain always gets John a case of sneers, something he can really use.
AlphaBitch : Ad – do you also like Hal Sparks? He’s my new crush.
cyrano1 : Hagel appears to be able to hold two opposing thoughts in his head without imploding.
AlphaBitch : No shit AdLib. And the questions about the Israeli lobby – sheesh! As I told CL, read Paul Findley’s books. When asked if I could name just one senator who had been bullied by AIPAC, I would have started with Graham and gone on from there!
AdLib : Or, I would have liked Hagel to ask, “Yes or no, were you right about Iraq having WMDs?” I mean, is the bar, “Anyone who isn’t infallible is clearly unqualified!” And BTW, I think Hagel is right overall, the surge was part of an unnecessary war so no, it was not a success.
AlphaBitch : Remember Cyrano- McGrumpy can’t even comb his own thinning white straw hair. It’s why Ms. Lindsey and Joe LIEberman have to accompany him everywhere. There is justice…
cyrano1 : Xactly!! Have you stopped beating your wife?
AdLib : AB – No, haven’t heard that one from Steph!
AdLib : Cyrano – I wanted Hagel to ask McCain, “Yes or no, were you right about picking Sarah Palin as the best qualified person to be your VP?”
cyrano1 : Not here for long, but it’s a hoot!
AlphaBitch : Ever hear Stephie’s “I just f*ckin shot myself” replay of that 911 call? Hilarious
cyrano1 : You got it AB!
AdLib : Hey Cyrano! Great to see you here!
AlphaBitch : Stand back, Cyrano. AB has this one! By the throat, I’d get ‘em if’n I was there.
AdLib : Aha! Yes, it can be a very backstabbing business. But those who stab often cut themselves off too.
cyrano1 : Hagel hearings? I wanted to strangle McCain
AlphaBitch : Yes, McCain is a mean old coot. I think Chuck was not unprepared for the questioning, but rather unprepared for the once former pal going Kim Jong Il on his ass.
AlphaBitch : I was once “given” the title of AP on a documentary. The whole damn thing was my idea, I had all the contacts and all the connections. I raised a couple of hundred thou but the guy was uber greedy and wanted half a mill. So I didn’t get to be the EP. Years later, he made it for far less but my contact (music ones) told me so I was “given” an AP credit.
AdLib : Did you see any of the Hagel hearings?
AdLib : One vodka tonic coming up…make that two. That and gin and tonics are on my regular list.
AlphaBitch : He was a friend and a really really good guy. I’m sure he’s OK, but coming on the Bito-lessness of my life, it’s hard to take. Can I please have a Vodka tonic?
AdLib : Ah…it also stands for Directory of Photography in the movie business!
AlphaBitch : But we’ve got new leadership. There are some interesting concepts being floated which I think hold some promise. And I’m a hard sell. Director of Production
AdLib : DP?
AdLib : She is a great listen.
AlphaBitch : DP, if you can believe that one!
AlphaBitch : Not when you arm yourself with STephanie Miller. 3 hours a day keeps me in good stead. I listen while I’m working at home.
AdLib : Right, I forgot! Hate to see PBS laying off.
AdLib : And getting goofier by the minute.
AlphaBitch : PBS
AlphaBitch : To quote John Prine: Ooooh, baby -it’s a big old goofy world.
AdLib : Sorry to hear that AB. What kind of non-profit?
AdLib : It’s a big Planet out there.
AlphaBitch : Had a rough one at work. Two surprise layoffs of kind of important people. Sigh. Non profits are tough right now.
AdLib : Always can use a hand.
AlphaBitch : Hey dear leader. Need any help?
AdLib : Good to see you!
AdLib : Hey AB!
AlphaBitch : Knock knock. Anyone home?
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST, Hope to see you then.
AdLib : Night all, have a great weekend!
AdLib : Murph, so true. The RW nutjobs have so overcommitted to this strategy of demonizing Obama that they have nowhere to go but this insanity. They are so over now.
MurphTheSurf3 : Well….good night…closing up tonight.
AdLib : Murph – so tr
MurphTheSurf3 : I wanted to make one more point. Look at the NewTown Truthers who are saying that Obama is either behind the shootings or behind the fiction of the shootings ALL in order to defeat the 2nd Amendment. Is there any low to which the O Haters will not go…I do not think so.
SallyT : And, I am done Murph.
SallyT : I took a potty break!
MurphTheSurf3 : I got bounced off the site 10 minutes ago. Are we done?
AdLib : Sorry all, a bit of a server issue there!
SallyT : And conspiracy theories were born!
choicelady : AdLib – I think I mentioned that a friend has a friend who is SS. He told my friend that the death threats are SO AWFUL the Obamas finally said for them NOT to tell them what has been said. Tell them what to do and not do – but never why. They couldn’t bear it. Remember how the Obamas had “date night”? They never do that anymore. They can’t. How incredibly sad.
AdLib : CL – I don’t think Obama could be more hated by the RW nutjobs than he already has been. Yes, the gun control thing could push a little bit more on these loons but from the beginning, Obama has been getting death threats each day and we’ll never hear about the kooks the SS have scared off or arrested along the way. They know there’s a real threat out there against him, I think the SS will be up to the task of keeping him safe.
SallyT : Those are the people I worry about CL. The Religious Right.
choicelady : Sally – the reason people don’t trust their government began on the Grassy Knoll. All the lies. All the things that followed – Gulf of Tonkin, WMD. It’s weird that the hype is MOSTLY on the Right, but the fact of distrust is real.
SallyT : And, Vietnam followed. More mistrust.
choicelady : AdLib – if you want a major creep out, the mystery stories written by Margaret Truman actually talk about the hidden, shadowy figures on the Religous Right behind major plots. She was well enough placed to have heard things we never will. Her last book before her death dealt with that very issue. It was written exactly as I’d imagined a plot would unfold. VERY scary.
SallyT : I do believe that we lost our innocence that day. It lead to doubt and mistrust.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- yes, your observation about Reagan and Bush being personally influential after leaving office has not been great but I think that is as much a function of how they were created (as in the case of Bush) or recreated (for Reagain) by those who are the standard bearers of a certain ideology/philoso phy. Obama will be seen as the author of a new approach….or the leader in the resurgence of older one
choicelady : AdLib – And I grow MORE worried every day. His strength is EXACTLY what goads the zealots into acting. And it’s not the people you see. It’s the ones you do NOT see who scared the bejeezus out of me. I will always think that “The Family” was behind JFK, MLK, RFK. Always.
choicelady : Sally – I was walking home from high school- we had half days – and heard from another student. I remember asking myself if this was the end of America. I think it was. Now, all these years later, we have a chance at renewal. I pray it does not get shattered again.
SallyT : rifle
AdLib : CL – I am actually growing less and less concerned for Obama’s safety as he grows stronger with each success. For some reason, it seems to make him appear less vulnerable.
SallyT : CL, I have those same fears. I remember a warm day and a handsome President with a beautiful wife in an open convertible. The country changed with a rife.
choicelady : BTW – Rachel’s coverage of abortion providers tonight brough it all back to me. I could barely watch. I know some of those folks she mentioned – and others unseen. So many people hurt, killed, maimed. It was very hard to watch.
choicelady : I think we are all in agreement about him and his ability to be transformational . Given my own sordid history though, I wake up every morning, turn on the news, and pray for happy talk, idiocy, and no bad news. I will never stop being afraid for him and his family.
AdLib : As I believe Obama will be seen as a great and transformational President as more time goes by, his keeping OFA rolling could be a living legacy with a lot of influence, something we really haven’t seen before in this way.
choicelady : I saw some montage around OFA today that had sign after sign ‘FIRED UP!’ and ‘READY TO GO!’ I thought that was wonderful. That one woman from NC he talked about has created a new energy for us ALL. And he has embraced her chant as his own – marvelous. Cannot remember any president taking something from a constituent that way before. He is the LEAST elitest person in the WH in my lifetime. And we understand that and love him for it. He makes this be about us, the people. Marvelous!
SallyT : And, I believe that those same people will make sure that he keeps hearing them. He goes out to them and they will come to him. They will hold him and push him and he will succeed because of that.
SallyT : I believe that the President spent so much time out on the campaign trail this last time among the people. He saw them stand in line for hours to vote for him. The emotions that he has shown of late leads me to believe that he wants to give back to them as much if not more than they gave to him. He shows his feelings more now because they are closer to the surface and he wants all to know he is on a mission. He wants them to know he heard them.
AdLib : Murph – Yes, Obama does seem to envision an ongoing influence and contribution to this nation which is very cool!
choicelady : Murph – I agree about Clinton as a person, but I think Reagan and Bush W. had a different kind of endurance. The presence of the Religious Right that was fixated on corporate power has left a structural presence we have to destroy. OFA as a system to create enduring change is both far more transparent AND transformative than what now lingers from the long, sordid past of the GOP. These long waves – 1980-2012 – of RW politics are beginning to change. Obama as a very public figure coupled with OFA will be a major force for change as FDR and the New Deal were.
AdLib : CL – The pundits just recycle their “conventional thinking”, as you say, because something happened a couple of times in the past, of course it will always happen that way (remember Chris Matthews stating as a fact that Obama could not win unless unemployment was under 7%?). Obama can indeed continue to achieve remarkable gains for Americans and his legacy despite the pundits BS.
SallyT : Reagan at the end of his term didn’t know where he was or did he care.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice and CL….add to your assessment of the Obama 2nd term is his apparent intention to create a more lasting presence in the politics of the nation. OFA. It is as if Obama is seeing himself as one of those figures who can transform political philosophy (much as Clinton has emerged as a dominant figure in ways that neither of the Bush’s or Reagan did)
choicelady : Sally – LOL!!!
SallyT : I don’t know if Clinton dropped the ball but there were balls involved. However, Bush exploded all the balloons!
choicelady : Sally – It occurs to me that people miss the point about the second term. It’s not ‘lame duck’ as much as it is freedom to do what one wants. Bush and Clinton dropped the ball (Clinton’s was self inflicted over Monica) but Obama will run with it!
SallyT : That should have been any not and but you got it, CL.
choicelady : Sally – BEAUTIFULLY said!
SallyT : He is not running for office and more. He is now running the office.
choicelady : Sally – And what an inaugural present this gives him!
AdLib : Sally – On all those issues, just as with raising taxes on the wealthy and raising the debt ceiling, the Repubs are positioned against the wishes of the majority of Americans. It’s all bad for the Repubs, they have been exposed as only fighting for the elite and against the 99% and all of these issues underline that.
SallyT : I also think this win, a hard win it was even though the numbers proved all his, it was a fight and he won! That has put the wind under his wings.
choicelady : Sally – totally agree. I think his legacy will be amazing.
AdLib : CL – CYA is a pre-existing condition so after 2014, it is covered.
SallyT : Gun control, climate change, and immigration reform is on his agenda and I see him with blinders on. Yes, this tragedy move gun control on the list, I don’t think it was before. But, I do see him getting to so many other things he holds important to him to get done before he leave office.
choicelady : AdLib – Is CYA a covered condition?
AdLib : Murph – I do think the Repubs in The House have recognized what they most fear, that they have no leverage against Obama anymore and that they harm themselves more each time they fight Obama. So now, as you say, it’s all about CYA.
choicelady : AdLib – LOL!!! Those complicated extractions may or may not be covered! Wonder if they have deductibles – is stupidity a covered condition?
choicelady : Sally – yes, I agree. I do think he was trying last term to “unify the nation”. A noble effort since he had no idea about the pact made inauguration night! But he is STANDING FIRM now, and it’s GREAT! I do agree!
AdLib : Emos and Baggers will both be in line for nose transplants. The hardest part of the procedure will first be extracting their heads from where they’re inserted.
SallyT : I think you missed the point, CL, I was making. The President held firm that he wasnt going to negotiate with those he will never get to agree with him. He went ahead with his direction and never swayed to miss the elephant in the middle of the road. I see it that way. And, sorry, but I do think he worried too much about getting along with them before and now he is on a mission.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib. I think the GOP leadership has finally convinced its rank and file that they are playing into the Dem’s hands. So, they have crafted a tissue thin strategy that will give some of them some cover but with Boehner making it clear that the Hastert Rule is dead in the last three big House votes…they do not have much choice.
choicelady : AdLib – LOL!!! Nose transplants are indeed covered by ACA!
AdLib : CL – Fear and anger make people stupid, they make kneejerk reactions based on their emotions and cut off their noses to spite their faces…which fortunately is now covered by the ACA!
choicelady : AdLib – I wish the EmoProgs could see these things as clearly as you do.
choicelady : Sally – on the lame duck, the last debt ceiling, etc. Obama DID hold firm, but the MSM did a piss poor jobs of explaining what he’d accomplished. I never once worried he’d cave NOW since he’d never caved before. He let the GOP have crumbs – and THAT was called a sellout. It wasn’t. But now, post election, he is calling the shots clearly. And do you know – the EmoProgs are STILL calling it a ‘trap’. They are so clueless about policy they can’t see anything clearly!
AdLib : Are the Repubs looking like total losers or what? They keep howling about how they won’t accept any tax increase and will refuse to raise the debt ceiling…and they just collapse again and again.
choicelady : AdLib – I keep asking myself if the GOP are really THAT stupid, and the answer is yes. And the EmoProgs would do the same – sink themselves over some ideological nitpick. So I guess I have to believe this is the product of dumb.
SallyT : Well, I am glad something snapped them back in line. And, that the President held firm.
AdLib : CL – So true and so funny! The feds controlling health care in important red states? And Repub Govs are just handing it over to them? Hilarious!
choicelady : AdLib – one takes one’s allies where they are. At the moment fans of economic stability (us) are allied with the banks (yuck) for different reasons. But it gives us breathing room. That’s fine with me.
AdLib : It does seem pretty apparent and I heard news show hosts quoting Wall Street sources that they did not want the Repubs tanking the economy with profits so great right now. The Repubs got too big for their britches and their masters snapped them back in line.
choicelady : AdLib – I agree on the state exchanges, and the BIG joke is that the Red states without them but with FEDERAL programs are adding greatly to the rush to single payer or universal programs!!! Har-dee-har on them!!!
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice – yes…Rachel (and her staff) have a way of pairing very interesting insights. I suspect that the money folks are doing just as you say- warning the GOP- don’t go where you say you are going.
choicelady : AdLib – since all the GOP and Santelli are invested in “loss” calls, success and stability are their economic enemies. Awwwwww. TOO BAD!
AdLib : CL – I am a fan of the ACA and thrilled about how the state exchanges provide such a viable transition to a national exchange and a unique kind of single payer type system.
choicelady : Murph – I thought Rachel’s explanation of that was AMAZING, and it’s GREAT news. Lack of volatility and high ratings is GREAT. It makes me think that behind the GOP cave on the debt ceiling resides BANKS and investors threatening them quietly off stage. Funny who your allies can be…
MurphTheSurf3 : AD LIB..there is so much whimpering from the right at this point in time it is hard to discern the specific source.
AdLib : Great news Murph. Does that mean Rick Santelli is whimpering softly into his stock portfolio?
choicelady : AdLib – nope. They held up some provisions I liked (though can’t remember anymore!) but it was overall the House reluctance that kept Medicare for All from even reaching a vote. When you do the head count, you just have to figure out what is worth pursuing and what’s a dead horse. MFA was a dead horse right from the git-go. I LIKE ACA for the ground it lays for the future as well as the help it gives now to people such as Boomer and KQ and others. But it WILL be the path to some kind of universal if not quite Canadian style single payer. More like Germany, France, Switzerland.
MurphTheSurf3 : Did anyone see that the VIX the business anxiety level measure that is formally the Chicago Board Options Exchange Market Volatility Index is the lowest since before the recession and the stock market is the higest…HAPPY INAUGURATION BARACK OBAMA!
AdLib : AB – Have a wonderful weekend! And use some of those days to chill a bit!
kesmarn : You shouldn’t have put the tiara on those shelves, Frennie. Hope it gets better! G’night!
SallyT : Glenn, thank you and I will find a special something for you. You will have to guess which it is.
AdLib : Night Kes! Sleep well and thanks for everything!!!
choicelady : ‘Night night kes and AB. Sweet dreams!
AlphaBitch : NIght sweet peas. I’ll see you on Monday! I actually have an extra day off. Let’s see – all our shelving in the garage pulled out of the wall, and 10 shelves came crashing down. Welcome to my “weekend”. Bye!
kesmarn : I may follow glenn and KT and KQ out the door. Midnight here in Toodle-dee-doo as well. Have a great weekend, gang!
choicelady : AB – honest to Pete we need a progressive radio network again. Air America was GREAT but incompetent in business. We have to have that back. Pacifica out here is on the verge (again) of total collapse, and they’re too hair on fire anyway. We need Sirius to do what they can – and hope for the best on live streaming for others. It all needs to be “out there”.
SallyT : Well, get prepared for a lot of LANCE THE LYE MAN!
AdLib : Hope to see you on Monday night, glenn! Have a great weekend!
glenn : Sally–one more post before I go. Norquist has faded into the woodwork lately. Ain’t it wonderful? Don’t worry–I love your selection of cartoons even if the grover is missing.
AdLib : CL – Gotcha. Though we were just a couple of votes away from the Senate passing Medicare for all, weren’t we? I thought it was Lieberman and Nelson who sunk it.
kesmarn : Frennie, you couldn’t look like Jan if you pickled yourself in brine for 1000 years.
AlphaBitch : Yes, on Current, Murph. They will go away with AJ. But I think they may find some way to resurface. I get such a kick out of watching radio guys when they are on TV. The faces and eye rolls say it all.
choicelady : AB – OMG – get sleep! We can’t have you looking like JAN!!!
MurphTheSurf3 : Bye Glenn…
SallyT : Glenn, you do the same. I haven’t found any funny on your fav Norquist yet. But, I am still lookin’!
kesmarn : G’night, glenn. Have a great weekend and see ya Monday!
choicelady : glenn – there are a lot of us old fogeys on here. Some of us are just on the WEST coast and get to play longer. Have a great weekend and see you Monday!
AdLib : Murph – I understand your point. There’s a mercenary side to this, sometimes there is a better way and I would argue that the conservative rural agenda is not best for American society in the 21st century.
AlphaBitch : What time do you guys start on MOnday? I’m blurry eyed and I need some shut eye or I will look like Bonefinger tomorrow.
MurphTheSurf3 : AB….where to you tape Stephanie Miller…..on Current? I love her but fear she is going away soon with the El Jazeera buy out.
glenn : Okay, folks, it’s getting on to midnight here on the East Coast and the old people like me can’t stay up much past that. Have a great weekend all. Hope to be here Monday for the Inauguration.
choicelady : AB – Never occurred to me Jan was supporting Medicaid because SHE might need it! LOL!!!
SallyT : No, she counted the Mexicans in her backyard and knew that times they are a changin!
AlphaBitch : My ONE guilty pleasure these days is taping Stephanie Miller on Current and playing it back while I make dinner. I laugh so hard I’ve snorted a time or two…..
choicelady : AdLib – OH GOOD! I will keep in touch and go back and forth between hubby and PPOV!
kesmarn : It’s too late for redemption, Headless Jan….
AlphaBitch : She heard the cryptmaker calling her home, I guess, CL.
choicelady : AB – yes Bone FInger DID it and said it was the MORAL thing she had to do.Her freaking hypocrisy was breathtaking!
AdLib : CL – Sure, we will Live Blog on Monday for the Inauguration!
glenn : kes–I think she’s beautiful. For a tall woman, she holds herself with such grace and elegance. I’ve known many tall women who “stoop”, and Mrs. Obama just holds herself so proudly.
AlphaBitch : FLOTUS rocks the bangs, that’s fer shure.
kesmarn : I think I saw that too. Headless Jan had a moment of sanity? Sunstroke?
choicelady : AdLib – nope. The House did not support Medicare for All. We counted House votes – 98 was all I could get.They didn’t trust it. Same issue as CA – the single payer people did not do the groundwork to get the support. ACA lays the path to single payer – and the single payer people can’t even SEE it. But in 2010 – 98 votes. Period. And a handful in the Senate. Over all you HAD to have 278, both houses. We were nowhere near that just on HOUSE lack of support.
SallyT : I do like that she has several dresses off the rack and she wears them several times at several events.
AlphaBitch : So did I read somewhere that old BoneFinger Brewer had captiulated and decided to extend Medicaid?
kesmarn : glenn, I don’t think she realizes how pretty she is.
kesmarn : No…I liked the dress she wore at the convention better.
AdLib : CL – Well, The House appeared to support Medicare For All and all we needed was for the Senate to do so…that was single payer without saying it was.
AlphaBitch : Frennie – you and I can pretend we loaned it to her. To be honest, I did not really like the white ball gown last time.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- and they would argue that Progressive leadership is exactly what they are afraid of.
choicelady : AB – no, but I drove some other weird road between Rock Springs and Laramie WY that was amazing. Of course my car broke down and had to be scrapped in Laramie, but that’s a whole long ugly story…coupled by the fact that 20 years later I broke down going BACK to CA and wound up in the same damned motel junking the rental truck. I now call it the Laramie Triangle…
glenn : Kes–a dress to die for to go with her new hairstyle.
AdLib : Murph – I would argue though that instead of holding the majority of the nation back and fighting progress, that WY and other rural states would be forced to follow the more Progressive ones.
kesmarn : Michelle’s gonna have a dress to die for. You know it.
AlphaBitch : Oooh – fashion watch Monday.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL- and yet the Framers were very cautious about the issue of basing representation solely on population. States with small populations always have few seats in the House but their charter membership in the Union is balanced by an equal number of seats in the Senate. The electoral college was meant to capture both notions.
choicelady : KT – have a good rest and great weekend. Ad Lib – are we doing anything live on the inauguration?
AlphaBitch : Anyone here ever drive Hwy 287 from Ft. Collins CO to Laramie WY? One of the prettiest drives in the US, IMHO.
SallyT : Night KT! I’ll watch for you later on here somewhere. I bet I know where, too!
choicelady : AdLib – I don’t think single payer would have flown in the House. I counted at MOST 98 votes for it there. The Senate did try (Baucus) to squeeze ACA, but they failed. I think things work out as they are going to anyway. So I don’t see the Senate as a problem. Of course today it’s the minority in the GOP that are THE problem in the HOUSE! As Gilda used to say – it’s always something. I just think, over all, the system pretty much works.
kesmarn : We would have both been wrong, Frennie. Orange.
AlphaBitch : Kes: what color was it? I would have guessed silver.
SallyT : Look, Wyoming is going to do as they please no matter. They are oil cowboys up there!
kesmarn : G’Night, KT!
AdLib : Heading out KT? Have a great weekend!
kesmarn : You snooze, you lose, Frennie! That tiara is MINE. (Even though I did guess the wrong color for the black box…
glenn : Good night KT–sleep well.
AlphaBitch : Mwah KT. Big wet one, bud.
KillgoreTrout : Well good Planeteers, have a wonderful weekend, and long may you run!
AlphaBitch : Kes: Frennie – I whipped your butt on dwarf trivia on MB, but never got to go back and claim the tiara. That sucked.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….archaic in one sense but also part of the checks and balances that Framers considered. Even in 1789 the issue of population prejudice factored heavily into this structure. Wyoming has a tiny population – so it would have few members of the House and only one Senator- permanent minority status and diminishing influence….
AdLib : CL – When the Dems held The House, it was all about The Senate being dominated…the country being dominated by the small minded Senators from small population states. Tyranny of the minority…other wise, we would have had single payer and it would have happened in Obama’s first year.
AlphaBitch : Ad: I’m filling my pockets with Double Bubble gum and I’m gonna pop a pink “cap” on Gohmert’s ugly face.
choicelady : Murph – I think that’s quite true, but overall the vote is the vote. Wherever it comes from, majority rules. That’s democracy.
glenn : AdLib–another good wish. Is it just me, or does anyone else think we have really come to a “definitive moment” or moments, in our country, and it’s time to take a look at some of our governing structures and perhaps bring them more in line with equality for all? Some of these governing procedures were made for wealthy, white men only, and had no concessions for anything else. I believe that’s where we’re running into a lot of conflict because we are actually trying to include ALL citizens in the effort of voting and governing, and there were no provisions made for anyone else.
kesmarn : A dollar! AB, you can buy ad space for the Planet on the Rush Limbaugh show!!
SallyT : Murph, but that is true already.
AlphaBitch : CL: I do now own 2 – count ‘em 2 – pink MB mugs. I have a very dear and sweet friend who always chooses THAT mug when she comes to visit. I decided to donate and get another mug, that way we can share and I won’t sit around in a snit.
choicelady : AdLib – I think the Senate is not a problem overall. That’s hard to hijack. But the proportional representation crap for the electoral college is a vile distortion since it reflects NOTHING of the vote which, at least putatively, it now does.
AdLib : AB – Take the weekend off. And here’s a dollar, by yourself something nice!
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- the problem with undoing the Electoral College in favor of a population based election is that it makes the urban centers so powerful that they they would be the campaign -
AlphaBitch : My Congressional wish list is simple. Have stand alone bills. Period. Yea or nay.
choicelady : AB – I’m sure we can be persuaded to double your Planet salary. And time off can be extended indefinitely. Does that help? Sorry you’re so exhausted!
KillgoreTrout : AB, too much work and not enough play makes Debbie a very dull gal!
AdLib : Murph – I think that’s archaic though, states may have different POVs but we are now so integrated as one nation that giving Wyoming, with half a million residents, as much power to pass national health care as CA with 37 million people just isn’t good.
AlphaBitch : All this talk of gerrymandering is precisely why I want to quit the $$ job and volunteer to get something done – politically speaking.
kesmarn : Will send a note to the Blov to take you out to dinner and dancing.
choicelady : Murph and AdLib – I’m fine with the system AS IT HAS BEEN. I don’t want to tinker with it. I want it to work. And if we have to change anything, let it be the end of the electoral college. Otherwise it’s been effective, and we should muck up the original system as little as possible. If it aint’ broke – and most of it isn’t – do NOT fix it!
AlphaBitch : You’re not the boss of me, Ad. Well, OK, sometimes you are. Hey! I want a raise and more freakin’ days off, please.
AlphaBitch : Too much work, not enough fun. What’s new with you?
AdLib : AB – You aren’t allowed to be quiet or tired, it’s in your contract.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I like your idea of neutering the gerrymandering process for the House. The Senate…that one I am less convinced of as the Framers wanted to balance representation by population and representation of each of the individual states as entities unto themselves.
choicelady : Hey AB – you OK? How come tired?
AlphaBitch : AB in da house, CL. Just quiet and tired tonight.
kesmarn : Come down here, right now, young lady!
SallyT : Don’t you think with more computers that it will change in time?
AdLib : glenn – I would add one more wish for the Supreme Court, make them one-term 15 year appointments. Lifetime is crazy and getting stuck with bad justices like Scalia and Thomas for an entire generation is nuts.
choicelady : Come back AB!
glenn : Murph, Thanks for the info.
choicelady : Huh – AlphaBitch came and then disappeared. Sorry to see her go!
choicelady : glenn – As I understand it the founders did not trust democracy and the electoral college WAS a hedge against unfettered mob rule. It’s been a nightmare though – and with these efforts to hijack it, it’s time to END it.
glenn : AdLib–I like your magic wish.
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn…recall that as originally laid out members of the Senate were selected by their state legislatures. In the original plan only members of the House were elected by popular vote. The Framers did not trust “the mob.”
KillgoreTrout : kes, they say God protects children and drunks. I think my friend had some sort of protector that night!
KillgoreTrout : Have a great weekend KQ!
SallyT : He was long gone, CL. He left the door open, too.
glenn : Sally–Sorry, I don’t know the answer to your question. I never understood why we had an electoral college in the first place, and just didn’t go with the popular vote.
AdLib : Night KQ! Take care my friend!
choicelady : Goodnight KQ – keep us posted on how you are and have a GOOD weekend!
choicelady : kes – they were wonderful cats. They were lousy “mousers”.
AdLib : Sally – If I could get a magic wish, it would be to revamp two Congressional things. First, make gerrymandering illegal, districts would only be created by a bipartisan committee but carving out safe seats would be illegal. And change the Senate so that each state only got one and the rest were distributed based solely on population. Allowing the minority to have so much power is self-destructive .
choicelady : Sally – that is pretty funny! I am presuming the driver who stole the car was long gone? How fuel inefficient of him!
SallyT : Well, Glenn, than why not the popular vote if it isn’t quicker the other way?
kesmarn : Oh, KT. He picked the wrong place to walk into!
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ hardly had a chance to say hello. Pleasant dreams.
choicelady : KT – EXCELLENT! We can’t end the supermajority vote on taxes in CA since we are tax phobic, but we now HAVE supermajorities in both houses. We shall see what this means.
kesmarn : G’night, KQ. Feel better soon!
KillgoreTrout : kes, I used to live in an old New England farm house, and we shared half of it with a local cop and his family. One night, my inebrirated friend wondered into the wrong half. He came within inches of being shot.
glenn : Good night KQ
kesmarn : You were kind, c’lady. And yes, you did have a bunch of Garfields there.
KQµårk 死神 : Good night folks.
MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- only one other country has a system like ours and that is Liberia which is a total mess. Most of the world uses a Parliamentary System of some kind.
choicelady : kes – I believe all other developed nations go with JUST the popular vote.
SallyT : CL, we woke up one morning to find a new car in our front yard still running. It had been stolen some 40 miles away.
choicelady : kes – I live trapped the rat and took it out to an island and let it go. No other took its place. But I was NOT happy with the cats who were all sleeping very nearby. I’m sure they were bribed.
glenn : Sally–I think it actually takes longer to certify the electoral results. If I remember correctly, the electoral votes for the presidential election were just certified on Jan. 1.
kesmarn : I should know the answer to this but– do other countries have anything like an electoral college? Or do they go with popular vote?
choicelady : kes – unfortunately the times when we could not lock our doors were long, long ago. Sorry you guys got a scare. I came home a few months ago to find someone passed out in my front garden, but at least he wasn’t inside! He was just homeless and tired. But…
KillgoreTrout : I have signe two different petitions now that call for the end of the supermajority. And the filibuster.
kesmarn : Oooooh…I would be avoiding that china cabinet, c’lady. Paper plates indefinitely until that guy was gone!
SallyT : And why can’t we elect on popular vote? I mean they do count those, too. Or is it easier for the election to be called quicker with the electral.
choicelady : kes – I’m surprise fat cats would bother with mice. I had three with a neighbor’s cat as regular visitor AND had a rat living under the china cabinet. I think the rat paid the cats off, and they were too well fed to care.
kesmarn : A drunken guy wandered into our house in rural CT years ago. Fortunately he was harmless. We were so dumb. After that we locked our doors.
KillgoreTrout : CL, I like that. Well said. My mom took care of a female, feral cat for 14 years. You know that cat would not let my mom pet her, at all. Mom didn’t care, she just loves cats.
AdLib : Murph – That’s a point that most of these RW no nothing about, Jefferson wanting another (if not more) Constitutions.
choicelady : Keep hitting the return – what if the fourth one got 5-10 percent and was an extremist? He or she would have EXACTLY the same authority as those who got significant wins. There is a belief that giving the GOP a “win” in San Francisco and the Dems a “win” in Orange county somehow makes things better. It’s not remotely true.
glenn : KT–yup–we had several of those hard-drinking friends in the “row houses” too.
choicelady : Damn – 5-10
choicelady : All – the phenomenon of minority rule is very recent. The founding fathers weighed in heavily against “supermajoritie s” that gave undue power to the minority. Even Liberals think proportional representation is a good thing – you could have districts made up of four Senators with the top four winners having equal power. Well, what if the fourth got only 5-10
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice/Glenn…o ur Constitution is really full of holes that have never been plugged – the Electoral College is one of them. What happens when a fundamental law can only be passed with compromises high and low. Jefferson assumed that after 12 or so years of trying it out a second Constitutional Convention would do a 2.0
AdLib : Murph – Yes, this is what concerns me, purple states having their electoral votes manipulated to favor the minority Repubs.
kesmarn : I do have nice neighbors, c’lady. AND…no mice.
KillgoreTrout : glenn, I had a hard drinking friend that would, on occasion, do the same thing
SallyT : The rural areas don’t like the metro areas deciding. That would change OR from blue to red. Those 25 people over there in eastern Oregon could change our color!
choicelady : kes – obese strays are the sign of a kind neighborhood.
choicelady : Murph – yuck. That is scary – recipe for disaster!!!
glenn : Murph–that’s even more scary.
kesmarn : There are about 5 strays in this neighborhood and I suspect I’m not the only one who feeds ‘em. They are getting kinda obese.
KillgoreTrout : CL, the elderly that have made a point of always becoming, are the wisest of the wise.
choicelady : glenn – I knew about a cat named Slash who could open those levers. He was completely free in his own home since all the doors had them. NO one could stop him! Good thing your doors had locks!
MurphTheSurf3 : Glenn, KT, Choice, Ad Lib…THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE…preced ent is that stats decide how to distribute their electoral votes….see «link» for an example from Nebraska and Maine.
SallyT : Dah, I meant to say, that the population of many states probably wouldnt go along with the popular vote NOT counting.
choicelady : KT – I have to bang on my car every morning to make sure no cats are underneath. We keep the garage “person” door open so they have refuge in this cold. They have homes. They just don’t GO there. In that respect they are really dumb.
KillgoreTrout : Well sure Sally. Superman is getting up there in years!
glenn : CL–When I lived overseas, the outside doors had levers instead of knobs. The cat next door learned how jump up and push on the lever to let himself into the house. Since we lived in “row houses”, the cat sometimes got confused as to which house was his. We had to keep our door locked, so he just couldn’t walk in.
SallyT : I don’t think the population of many states would go along with the popular vote that counting.
choicelady : KT – I knew, worked with , and adored Maggie Kuhn, founder of the Gray Panthers. Her motto: Stand up and speak even if your voice shakes. Words to live by! She was about 85 pounds, absolutely gorgeous, and one of the smartest people I ever met.
AdLib : Supergramps!
kesmarn : Good for Mikey and the MRFF, c’lady!
SallyT : KT, I thought that was Superman?
choicelady : kes – these two cats are on my side. I’ve bribed them with kibble for years. I did hear about the West Point group – and I think Mikey Weinstein and Military Relgious Freedom Foundation had a LOT to do with that!
KillgoreTrout : Sally, my favorite group is the Grey Panthers. A combined effort among the elderly to fight for truth, justice and the American way! ‘)
AdLib : Sad how the Repub extremists both attack Obama as a “dictator” and meanwhile want their minority party to dominate the majority. Do they know what a “dictator” is?
choicelady : glenn – this IS the result of the EmoProg rant in 2010 “Don’t vote and send a message to the Dems”. So yeah – this is very scary. Only way around it is to court enough Dems in gerrymandered districts to overwhelm the redistricting OR to raise a citizens redistricting commission as we did here. Only states with initiatives can really get that done. It’s an uphill fight.
KillgoreTrout : Cl, we once had a cat that loved to get in peoples cars and go for a ride. More than once, we got a call from a stranger wanting to know if Sammy was our cat!
kesmarn : He may be a fundie cat, c’lady. Be careful. When they get a load of catnip, they can be dangerous. BTW, did you hear that a West Point think tank declared RW fundies a real danger to Homeland Security?
AdLib : As the Repubs “whites only” demographic shrinks, they can only try to rig the democratic system through voter ID, awarding electoral votes by district, etc. Of course, they could become a less batshit party but that ain’t gonna happen for some time.
SallyT : By george Kt I think it would!
KillgoreTrout : Sally, wouldn’t that be The Purple Panthers?
glenn : KT–To me, this is more scary than anything else the GOP has done so far. Even though the Dems had more votes than the GOP, they still hold the House (and still are holding the country hostage). They got away with that; is there any way we can stop this electoral college nonsense? At least they’re beginning it well before the elections so it can be brought to court, if necessary.
SallyT : The Pink/Black Panther?
choicelady : kes – we have a solid 2/3 majority of Dems in both houses. No way will this fly here. BTW – the black and white cat is now on my car in the drive. No end to the excitement on a Friday night.
KillgoreTrout : Frisk the Cat was too cool for school! Compliments of Ralph Bakshi!
AdLib : You’re just a cat, right, like I’ve never heard that one before!
choicelady : AdLib – it’s a BLACK cat. All is well.
kesmarn : That’s what I gathered, too, c’lady. What are Dems in CA planning, do you think?
choicelady : glenn – so far nothing has been done, but we are trying to see if it’s legal for states to do this differently or if there has to be ONE standard across the nation. We don’t know.
SallyT : Stick up your paws, you pussy!
KillgoreTrout : glenn, I don’t really know. I tend to think that it would require a congressional action of some sort.
AdLib : Or give it Friskies!
AdLib : CL – Frisk the cat!
choicelady : kes – the Red states that aren’t really Red such as OHIO, want to have electoral results mirror the Districts. Not the popular vote which has been heavily BLUE but the DISTRICTS. That could easily have handed the election to Romney. In CA there’s not a prayer this will work, but in those states that are more Blue voters but that have Red legislatures – it’s a huge danger.
AdLib : I wonder from time to time if there will be some incdent or moment that comes where there is a real Awakening for people in America…where they realize what has really gone wrong and what is really going on…and just say, “Enough!”?
glenn : KT–I’m well aware why the gop wants to change the electoral college; they know they can never win another election with their extremism. That’s why they use gerrymanding and fraud to win. But is it legal what they’re doing with the electoral college?
SallyT : AdLib, I am serious about those reality shows. I get a little put out that they show that lying, cheating, and deception is how you win the prize/money. What does that teach children?
KillgoreTrout : Good to see ya here Murph!
choicelady : OK – paranoia gives way to laughs. Our security lights just went on. Turned on the camera -it’s the neighbor’s cat walking on my car. Not EVERYTHING is the religious right up to no good!
kesmarn : c’lady, how do they plan to do that?
KillgoreTrout : glenn the GOP wants to change the electorial college because the electorial college handed Romney his hat and kicked him out the door. Romney was thoroughly trounced.
SallyT : Thank you, Murph!
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally….I would never pass you by or up intentioanlly
choicelady : kes – we even have a movement to parcel out electoral votes here in the VERY Blue state of CA!
SallyT : That is how I see it, too, AdLib. Acceptance of deception, that is how you win those reality shows too.
MurphTheSurf3 : Welcome KT
AdLib : glenn – That’s the bottom line, the illness that’s spread through our society. It doesn’t matter how horrible a person you are, if you win, if you make a lot of money, you’re to be respected.
choicelady : Sally – WE know you’re here! Murph’s just catching up.
kesmarn : glenn, I saw that too. I think that one would go all the way to the Supreme Court. The GOP is basically trying to gerrymander the entire country.
choicelady : glenn – a lot of Constitutional attorneys are trying to determnine if states can, willy nilly, start apportioning their electoral votes. No one ever tried this before. No one really knows.
AdLib : Sally – Yes, I think the public’s acceptance of deception is saddening, accepting that politicians of course are going to lie to you as are your heroes but as long as they say what they want to hear, it’s okay. There is a psychological disease in our society. So many who should be eschewed are celebrated or accepted at the least. What happened to principles?
SallyT : That’s okay, Murph, I have been passed over before.
KillgoreTrout : Very cool Murph, that’s for info.
glenn : CL–Winning at any cost reminds me of something else that I heard this week. Anybody know what’s up with republicans/tpar tiers trying to change how the electoral college counts states’ votes? Is it legal for states to amend the electoral college rules?
MurphTheSurf3 : Hello Sally and Funk…just trying to catch up based on the running lines…..
kesmarn : Here I was, feeling all sorry for Monti T’eo…
SallyT : Excuse me, Murph! But Funk and I are here, too.
MurphTheSurf3 : Hello to AdLib, Choicelady and Glenn. What are we talking about?
KillgoreTrout : LOL CL! Elephants are also compassionate! So much for them being an apt mascot.
AdLib : Manti Te’o is a proven liar about the phony girlfriend. Whether he knew at first or not is irrelevant, he lied later on after knowing full well it was a hoax. Lance Armstrong is a self-entitled shit who ruined many lives to fulfill his greed, no different than the GOP.
choicelady : SAlly – that is as good an explanation as ANY. Murph – I knew Nast created the symbol, but I’ve never been sure why.
SallyT : I thought it was an elephant because elephants love nuts.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT. The GOP Elephant. This symbol of the party was born in the imagination of cartoonist Thomas Nast and first appeared in Harper’s Weekly on November 7, 1874. See: «link»
choicelady : KT – the elephants had no say at all in being picked to be the symbol of a corrupt pile of politicians. Oh – that pile thing may be apt?
glenn : Hi Murph!
glenn : AdLib–what fraud of the GOP? I thought they were the “true Americans.” There are not words to describe how I feel about Lance Armstrong. Slime is too good a word for him. As for Manti Te’o, just someone falling for another scam. Or maybe just someone perpetuating another scam. Not enough info. on that one.
AdLib : KT – I don’t buy Manti Te’o’s story anyway, he’s already been proven to lie about it being a legit girlfriend, he’s a fraud.
choicelady : AdLib – I’m not sure about Manti Te’o – He may have been “had”, but the desire to win at ANY COST certainly afflicts the GOP and Lance. I can understand Lance, a cancer survivor, way more than the GOP who ARE a cancer.
kesmarn : c’lady, it would depend…
KillgoreTrout : I can’t understand why the elephant can be the mascot for the GOP! Elephants are smart!
SallyT : AdLib, do you think it is because we have just accepted that their is fraud in everything?
AdLib : CL – Elephants have been so tortured and murdered, very glad to hear all is well with them there.
choicelady : kes – the thought of riding Newt makes me ill…
choicelady : Hey Murph! Lovely to see you. I just joined OFA today!
AdLib : Hey Murph! That’s very cool news!
KillgoreTrout : I have no pity for someone who falls for such an internet scam. Don’t these folks realize that, on the net, you can be anybody you want to be?
choicelady : AdLIb – it’s an elephant sanctuary for a certain strain of elephants that would otherwise be extinct from poaching. I’ve forgotten what they are – but there are hundreds of them living on this island. Outside of ferrying tourists, the elephants have wonderful lives and great care.
AdLib : CL – That sounds very cool, my daughter would love that…until she gets sore from riding an elephant.
MurphTheSurf3 : Better late than never……plann ing an inauguration day event for Dems in the areas….kickoff to the new Organizing for Action that was Obama for AMerica.
funksands : Choice, that seems a bit pretentious to me. They should at least be forced to lasso the elephant and tame it.
AdLib : SO, does anyone see a parallel between the fraud of the GOP, Lance Armstrong and Manti Te’o as exemplifying a social system that has lost a modicum of integrity?
kesmarn : Can we saddle Newt Gingrich, c’lady?
choicelady : AdLib – my chiropractor and his husband went to Bali over Christmas and stayed at the ‘elephant resort’ a couple of days. You have a raised hut – very elegant – and come and go via a platform that lets you mount the saddle on your own elephant. They LOVED it!
KillgoreTrout : Lava hotel? Dante’s Inferno?
SallyT : Okay, I can see the connection….?? ??
funksands : Sally: Chuck Norris and Ice and Flu
choicelady : AdLib – oh yeah – LAVA hotel? NOT ON, thank you!
AdLib : Hey Sally!
SallyT : Okay, don’t make me scroll down, what are we talking about?
AdLib : CL – My wife wants to go to that ice hotel on a Xmas one day. Better I suppose than that lava hotel in the South Pacific.
KillgoreTrout : Sally is in da widget? Hey Sally, how goes it?
choicelady : AdLib – That’s Chuck’s limit OK.
choicelady : KT – you just put things into perspective. Indeed they have been.
glenn : Hi Sally!
kesmarn : Hey, Sally!
funksands : Hi Sally!
choicelady : Hey Sally! Great to see you!
KillgoreTrout : Ha, the Inuits have been staying in ice hotels for centuries now!
AdLib : CHUCK NORRIS: “You’re from Biloxi, that’s in Miss…er…The South.”
SallyT : Good evening all of you here!
glenn : KT–you took the words right out of my mouth (computer?). Norris would have had to someone else read the 4-syllable words for him and explain what they meant.
choicelady : funk – sorry your family is sick! Have you all been brought low by the flu?
choicelady : funk – I have friends from Portland who stayed in that “ice hotel” in Scandinavia or Lapland or somewhere. They spent ONE night and really liked it. But one night WAS enough.
funksands : Bad colds only I hope.
kesmarn : Awwww….flu?
KillgoreTrout : Ad, It wasn’t hard to believe. I don’t think I ever heard him utter more than 4 syllable words!
funksands : Kes, I’m well. The rest of family is sick as dogs, so I can’t stay long.
choicelady : AdLib – I’m a constant sucker for your “facts”! You say it. I believe it.
funksands : Ad, you ought to take your daughter to the Harbin Ice Festival in China. High on my bucket list. «link»
KillgoreTrout : Ad, see, that proves there is no global warming, or so say the anti-science crowd!
kesmarn : Funk! How are ya!?
choicelady : funk – that’s right out of “Thurber Carnival”: “Well if I called the wrong number, why did YOU answer the phone?” It was witty when Thurber wrote it. It’s paranoid when Chuck beleives it.
AdLib : CL – I was just joking about Norris and 4 syllables!
AdLib : CL – She’s only seen snow a few times but there shouldn’t be ice on the ground in LA!
funksands : Chuck Norris does not call a wrong number. You answer the wrong phone.
choicelady : KT – LOL!!!
KillgoreTrout : Ad, if you called him monosyllabic, he wouldn’t understand the word.
kesmarn : Twinkle***twinkl e***twinkle***
choicelady : kes – is it the wind causing your power issues? Yikes!
funksands : Choice, that’s what I was thinking. Humans are awesome.
choicelady : AdLib – so someone actually counted the numbers of syllables Norris uttered? That’s ALSO very funny!
AdLib : Kes – You won’t disappear as long as we all believe in you and clap our hands three times!
funksands : I did not know that.
AdLib : Hey Funk! Fun fact: Chuck Norris has never spoken a 4 syllable word on film.
choicelady : Hey funk – welcome and thanks – that is FUNNY!
choicelady : AdLib – she thought it was GLASS? Oh, my. You need to get her to Vermont in December to see snow fall, ice form, REAL cold. That’s evidence she’s TOO wedded to Southern CA!
funksands : Chuck Norris drank vodka once. Vodka passed out.
kesmarn : Folks, my lights have dimmed twice since I signed on, so if I vanish you’ll know I retreated to the dark ages.
AdLib : CL – If it was really about what they claim, it wouldn’t be so ugly. Just as with using the ACA to justify their racism and hatred of Obama and those they see as different, this gun issue is just another vehicle for justifying their expression of self-righteousne ss and hatred.
KillgoreTrout : That’s funny Ad!
choicelady : KT – nothing served up by Hollywood seems to be beyond their belief system. Chuck like Marion Wayne before him, wears makeup, recites PREWRITTEN lines, and stages carefully crafted stunts. You’re right – all rigged for safety. They honest to God think this is reality. And so do way too many movie viewers. Scary.
AdLib : Been freezing literally here in LA until today (my daughter saw ice in the gutter one morning and my wife had to explain it wasn’t broken glass). Santa Ana winds came in, suddenly warm today.
choicelady : All – the screaming over at PoliticusUSA on gun issues is beyond awful. Very scary how violent these people are. NOTHING moves them to rational discussion.
glenn : CL–It’s not a “paradise” the gun nuts are living in. It’s a fool’s paranoid cave.
kesmarn : I’m in for the night now, thank goodness. Had a dinner this p.m. Fun, but good to be home. What’s the main topic tonight? Gun control?
KillgoreTrout : Hey CL, Chuck Norris is a god to these gun nuts. You are absolutely correct, they don’t stop to realize that all of Chuck’s enemies are firing blanks and the explosions are rigged for safety. They also salivate over the Rambo films.
AdLib : I don’t think the Repubs truly believe all the BS they’re spewing. It’s all just ways to vent their fear, racism and hatred, that’s why it’s so irrational and absurd.
choicelady : kes – ah yes. WIND CHILL. The scourge of winter, IMHO. Well, stay warm INSIDE if you can!
kesmarn : “Only” in the low 30s here, KT and c’lady, but WINDY. Feels colder.
choicelady : AdLib – I’m familiar with that scence in “The Pianist”. The NRA dudes are living in a fool’s paradise. They all believe Chuck Norris defines reality.
choicelady : Hi kes – how is the weather there tonight? I get reports from Y’town, and it’s been bizarre.
AdLib : KQ – That has to be so painful! Hope you’re taking your painkillers and getting what sleep you can.
kesmarn : Hey, AdLib!
glenn : CL–Well, of course the Jews couldn’t have stopped the military forces. We all know that; why don’t repubs? Then, of course, repubs also say that MLK would “approve” of “gun appreciation day”. How did MLK die again?
choicelady : Oh gosh, KQ – that is definitely worth waiting around for. I have a friend – Mary Jo Laughlin – who is in Virginia and is a leading oncologist on exactly those issues. You can Google her and see if she’s available to help you. She was at Duke for a time but I think no longer. I REALLY want you to be able to get this to work!!! She was my landlady back in the 80s and her husband had leukemia. She went to med school and then became amazing in this battle.
KillgoreTrout : Hey kes, how’s my homie doing this evening?
AdLib : Hey Kes!
AdLib : CL – Watching the movie “The Pianist” also gives a glimpse. Rebels fire from a building, a tank turns and blows it up with a shell.
KillgoreTrout : I watched a video on youtube earlier, of an Apache attack helicopter, just wasting a well entrenched Taliban group. The helicopter turned on it’s miniguns, that fire 2000 rounds per minute. It took about a minute and a half, to completely wipe out the Taliban fighters.
kesmarn : Black ice is scary, c’lady. Glad you were spared that. KQ, will be sending good thoughts/prayers your way.
AdLib : CL – Should we at least get it to another legislator while we wait for Darrell?
choicelady : AdLib et al. – If anyone wants to understand the Warsaw ghetto, they REALLY need to read Leon Uris’s “Mila 18″. There was NO way that the Jews of the ghetto could ever have stopped the military forces. Not even early in the game.
glenn : Hi Kes–it’s cold here in GA too. We were supposed to have “black ice” with the rain yesterday, but thankfully, we were spared. Still cold, though.
KQµårk 死神 : Not quite CL. I’ve got a bit of a healthcare fight underway right now. They are trying to fix my bone marrow so I can make some better blood naturally.
choicelady : glenn – thank you!!!
choicelady : AdLib – I am worried we wont’ make Leg. Counsel which we HAVE to do. We may be stuck pushing this into a gut and amend (VERY bad idea) or waiting til next year. Sigh. I’m working everyone I can.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, that is the height of insanity while trying to seem sane. To think for even a minute that small arms fire could win out over all the deadly weapons our government has at it’s disposal.
AdLib : KQUARK! Great to see ya!
glenn : Hey CL–good to hear your good news all around.
kesmarn : Good Friday evening, kids. Just home from the Mercy dinner thing. It’s COLD here in the rust belt.
AdLib : CL – Will we hear something from Darrel’s staff next week? Time is short as you know…too short for dead horses!
choicelady : Hi KQ!!!! How are you? WHERE are you? You a Yankee yet?
glenn : Hi KQ.
KillgoreTrout : Hey KQ, long time no see.
choicelady : Gosh AdLib – my money was on Bubba and Lum, not Zeke and Lem. There’s where we libruals went wrong. Bet on the wrong mules.
KQµårk 死神 : Hey gang.
AdLib : CL – Good point, some did have weapons…but facing the might of the Nazi war machine, they had no chance…as these moronic RW gun nuts would have no chance against an actual tyrannical US with attack helicopters and killer drones…and a trained and heavily armed military. Yet Zeke and Lem are gonna save America with their stockpile of weapons?
KillgoreTrout : Ad, mind boggling, isn’t it?
choicelady : Hey glenn, KT – all is very good. I’m not a widow, my grant proposal is circulating, and I lost two pounds. What could be better?
KillgoreTrout : The thing that saved any remaining Jews in Warsaw, was the Russian army.
choicelady : Hey right back atcha, Ad Lib! Susan has the bill over to Darrell’s staff. Nothing more than that. She asked if I wanted her to send it to Dickinson, and I recommended others instead. He’s the proverbial dead horse…
glenn : Hey CL–what’s happening?
KillgoreTrout : Good to see ya CL! I hope all is well!
AdLib : Hey CL!
AdLib : KT – Yeah, those are brilliant arguments. If Nazis had only let Jews have machine guns and slave owners in the US had given rifles to arriving slaves…can’t imagine why they wouldn’t.
choicelady : Hi everyone – just caught up. The Jews DID have guns in Warsaw ghetto – and Molotov cocktails, etc. – fat lot of good it did. Thanks, glenn – had not seen THAT farce this time.
glenn : KT–The “logic” of the repubs never fails to astonish me. Sometimes it’s just jaw-dropping that they can say these things with a straight face. And then get insulted when people push back with facts. Of course, who needs facts when you have “god on your side”.
KillgoreTrout : I think the NRA is really feeling the heat. They won’t admit that Sandy Hook was the last straw for many, many Americans, but they do realize that it was.
AdLib : glenn – Wish it wasn’t the case but they won’t argue against that in their actions. They throw tantrums, they threaten to hold their breath until the nation’s economy crashed, they want ridiculous and unrealistic things, they are terminally and intellectually immature.
KillgoreTrout : Yeah glenn, I’ve seen that argument. Those brave Jews that did take on the Nazis in Warsaw, lost and dies in the gas chambers or were shot or hung in the streets of Warsaw!
glenn : AdLib–I keep trying to not look at repubs as emotionally retarded 10-year-old boys, but they keep showing me that they are.
AdLib : The thing about the Repubs is that they, like their real symbol, Romney, will take any side of an issue, even one completely opposite of where they stood yesterday, if they think it will help them “win” at least a round of “the game”. They are morally vacant, they have no principles or ethics, they are just consumed with greed.
glenn : AdLib–I know, diversity scares the hell out of them.
KillgoreTrout : The people in the civil rights movement were true Christians, not the “in name only,” ones.
AdLib : glenn – Once I started looking at Repubs as emotionally retarded 10 year old boys, it all seemed to make sense. The sense of entitlement comes from generations of racism, it is latent racism mixing with aggressive racism. Only whites should have power, whites who think just like them. Yep, that’s their idea of democracy.
glenn : AdLib–and the newest is that if the Jews had had guns in the Warsaw ghetto, then the Holocaust wouldn’t have happened. As Jon Stewart said, it didn’t matter that it took the combined forces of Britain, France, Russia, and the United States to defeat the Nazis, the Jews could have done it all by themselves if only they had had guns! Amazing “logic”, isn’t it?
KillgoreTrout : Excellent point glenn. They have not earned the right to believe they are owed some sort of entitlement or privilege.
KillgoreTrout : It’s like the old TP signage that says “keep your government hands off my Medicare!”
AdLib : KT – It’s just a stupid game. Hey, they’re saying how they wish black people had guns during the civil rights fight…really? Wouldn’t be many Repubs left in the South.
glenn : AdLib–I just can’t understand why repubs feel this sense of entitlement. What are they doing to make this country better? Or even more united? It really pisses me off that they do everything they can to divide the country, and then complain about President Obama being divisive.
KillgoreTrout : I think it’s quite ironic for these anti-government droids to complain about not having government protection!
AdLib : I want them out of “site”.
AdLib : Muzzle them, that is.
AdLib : glenn – The real problem with Baggers shooting their mouths off is that what they use for ammunition are dum-dums. We need to put a silencer on them.
KillgoreTrout : Hey glenn and Ad. Yeah Ad, save it for another half hour or so.
AdLib : glenn – Repubs feel an entitlement to power in this country, they feel that Obama has possession of something that’s theirs and he shouldn’t be allowed to use it or anything that goes with it. The NRA’s ad attacking Melia and Sasha for having protection as kids of the President seems to show this not-so-subtle racism and feeling of entitlement.
glenn : AdLIb–the biggest problem with republicans/tpar tiers shooting off their mouths is they’re usually shooting blanks. Kinda goes with their blank minds, though. Perhaps that’s why they need all those guns and ammunition.
AdLib : Hey Killgore! When the GOP shoots off their mouths, they shoot themselves in the foot. I have another anatomically impossible quote to make about the GOP but I’ll save it for now.
glenn : Hi KT–eeew–who wants to put a bloody foot in your mouth? Only our “friends” on the right.
AdLib : Hey glenn! Yes, I saw Kalima’s post, of course the black Dem President shouldn’t be given the keys to the presidency.
KillgoreTrout : Hi folks! The NRA did indeed shoot themselves in the foot, but I guess that makes it easier to put in the mouths!
glenn : AdLib–did you see Kalima’s post about the yahoos on yahoo who are complaining about taxpayers paying for presidential perks? It seems the people on the right are really reaching nowadays for things to hammer President Obama with. Whom did they think paid for all the presidential perks for other presidents?
glenn : Hi AdLib, and yes the GOP has shot themselves in the foot. I don’t know if they shot themselves BEFORE or AFTER they kicked the can down the road.
AdLib : Poor Repubs, having to admit defeat again and again, this week, proposing to kick the deficit ceiling down the road a few months. This is what losers look like.
AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” or “The NRA shot themselves in the foot” when you arrive!
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!