Vox Populi – 1-4-2013

AdLib : See you then! You have a great weekend too!

SallyT : I will be seeing you! Have a great weekend!

SallyT : There are some pretty angry ones! Some are down right nasty and not even close to funny! However, we do like to jump on their “Rednecks”! Yup, they don’t have any that are real comedians but they do have many that are without knowing it!

AdLib : Think about it, the only comedians the RW have are Dennis Miller and Victoria Jackson.

AdLib : cartoons

AdLib : Just saying in general, I find the cartons opposed to Obama more angry than clever but there are angry cartoons on the Left too. Just a general proposition that being RW and funny is not easy.

SallyT : Believe me, AdLib, I have to read a lot that aren’t funny! But, I have to read to find those that are!

SallyT : I try to pick those that we might not agree with but that we are in on the joke and can laugh at it.

AdLib : No worries, Sally. It’s all about what’s clever and hits the mark, whether or not it’s what I would or wouldn’t agree with.

AdLib : I’ve noticed that and that’s fine, I do think they show the RW with less of a clever sense of humor and more of just anger and fear as “funny”.

SallyT : There are a lot on California politics but I am not familiar with yours so I don’t put many in. I do once in awhile. If I pick the wrong side, don’t hold it against me!

SallyT : Sometimes, AdLib, I have to stick in one or two that aren’t necessarily favorable to Obama but I think if is fun to see how others see it, too.

AdLib : Wonderful Sally! They’re a delight!

SallyT : You do the same. The Funnies are geared up, just waiting for any good ones tomorrow to add before sending to you.

AdLib : Hey Sally, looks like we’re closing the Vox bar again. Looking forward to the latest Funnies this Sunday! Sleep well and have a great weekend!

SallyT : So, AdLib, it is just us to close.

AdLib : Night Murph! Have a great weekend and hope your New Year is going very well!

AdLib : Night Funk! Email me when you can!

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad….I was looking at the GOP side of the fence…as you say is there a Dem who would have the credentials with the Senate, with the military, with the public? Don’t know.

AdLib : Funk – My concern is that if he can be swept up with Iraq, what’s to say he wouldn’t be swept up the next time in supporting an unnecessary war? I don’t think he’s a terrible choice, just that he didn’t stand up and say “no” the last time he should have, might he not be prone to acting the same way again?

SallyT : Wish the same back at you, Murph!

MurphTheSurf3 : Well…time to check out….wishing you all the best in 2013…a year of good fortune let us all hope.

AdLib : Murph – Many Dems in Congress opposed the Iraq War, in the House, 82 voted for it, 126 voted against it. In the Senate, 29 voted for it, 21 voted against. I don’t know which of them may be qualified for Defense Sec but I would feel better with one of them than someone who supported the war mongering of the Bush Admin.

SallyT : Isn’t that funny, AdLib, we are aged by our music! My daughter the other day said, “Mom, they are calling my music the oldies! Bon Jovi is not oldies! Your music is oldies!” Sorry kids, music grows old as we do.

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…good luck…..holy cow…an 8 year old….

SallyT : Good night Funk! I always wish you luck!

funksands : Well folks, I gotta go. My 8-yr old woke up at 1pm today and thinks its Sunday. Wish me luck. Ad, talk at you this weekend. Night Sally/Murph

AdLib : Sally – There’s a station here in LA called K-Earth, it is the oldies station. Flipping past it I would hear songs from the 50’s and such. Today, it’s music I grew up with and kids today are flipping past it no doubt thinking what I did about 50’s music as “lame” (though I came to like it later on). A bit depressing.

MurphTheSurf3 : funk…I don’t know if your assessment is accurate…Hagel has been “appreciated” by his GOP colleagues but also criticized pretty roundly…the fact that it looks like he is going forward with the nomination tells me he is ready to have a fight on this one…why won’t the GOP support a moderate Republican. I think the Dems can be won over.

funksands : Ad, check him out on the Hurricane Sandy benefit. It was pretty bad.

AdLib : Funk – I saw Roger Waters several years ago and his dodging around having to sing notes he couldn’t hit any more was a bit disappointing. Now David Gilmour on the other hand, he was hanging on rather well but don’t know about nowadays.

SallyT : But, by not selecting a Dem does give cause for many to say that the Democrats just can’t handle defense. Now that I don’t agree with.

funksands : Ad, to his credit he did come out a few years later and said the vote was a mistake.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…there are not many, in fact hardly any, on either side of the aisle who did not support the Iraq war….at first.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…check out what I wrote to Funk re. Hagel. Let me add, as an Eisenhower GOP he is also very wary of the military industrial complex that runs war for fun and profit- idea the neocon raison d’tre. I think he is of the “get more results for less money” via pinpoint action, good intelligence and alliance building.

AdLib : Murph – I could only imagine John Bolton or some other wingnut in that position if Romney was elected. do have a thing against anyone who supported the Iraq War in that position, doesn’t show the insight and aversion to unnecessary war that I would like to see.

funksands : Murph, I think Obama nominated him thinking that here’s one fight that won’t happen. Little did he know. Right now sources are saying 10 DEM senators would vote no if Hagel is nominated.

SallyT : LOL, Adlib, I know but it use to be they used the BIG BAND ERA when asking for money. NOT THE BEATLES and the STONES!

funksands : Ad: Please tell me Roger Waters will stop singing at some point in the future. Love the guy, but holy cow

AdLib : Sally – A year or two ago, PBS was showing the Pink Floyd concert DVD, “Pulse” during a pledge drive…Pink Floyd, the symbol in its day of anti-authority, counter culture, acid and psychedelics…a nd it’s cozy nostalgia today. I guess you just have to laugh (as I did while watching it on PBS, taking acid and burning my draft card…)

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….Hagel is interesting…a GOP moderate…suppo rted the War in Afghanistan and Iraq initially but with limitations shaped by the George HW Bush war in the Gulf; when the war became about nation building he turned away and became an outspoken critic warning of another set of Vietnams. He is an honest guy who is not much interested in the spotlight. He is a decorated war veteran and an Eisenhower Republican. No wonder the current GOP hate him.

SallyT : Now I heard the reason he was going for a Repug was because of the cuts he was going after in defense and he thought it would be better to have a Repug than one of us liberal anti war Dems.

AdLib : It’s that Lincoln, “Team of Rivals” thing Obama is intent on pursuing, despite how counterproductiv e it is in policy terms.

SallyT : AdLib, I realized how old I had become when PBS started having specials with my music era when on their money campaign drive!.

MurphTheSurf3 : SALLY…seriousl y, I have a major blood disorder and my life and pharma’s profits are deeply intertwined.

funksands : Murph: Why another Republican? Not sure if I get it.

AdLib : Murph – I’m not crazy about Hagel. I appreciate Obama’s attempts to incorporate Repubs in his Admin but is that better than having the best man with the best POV at their position?

SallyT : Murph, that doesn’t count the pain pills that I take as needed. My doctor’s office got bought by one of the hospitals and I hate it! They nickel and dime you on everything.

AdLib : Hey you young whippersnappers, where can I find the Lawrence Welk show on my television thingy?

MurphTheSurf3 : OK- Something serious…..ANY THOUGHTS ON HAGEL AT DOD?

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…thanks for sharing….I am at 14 thought most are vitamins, minerals, fiber.

funksands : Murph, you got it to stop blinking! Nice work buddy!

AdLib : Funk – I know what you mean, a station here in LA was playing a set of songs I was really enjoying…until they said, “That’s our set from 1986!” Ouch!

SallyT : Good night Sabreen!!

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…I am recording “Murder She Wrote” on my VHS…gosh I hope I got that little timer thingy right..

funksands : You know what made me feel old the other day? Beck’s song “Loser” is 20 years old. Ack

SallyT : Murph, I think CL left. But, I take 10 pills a day.

funksands : Murph, isn’t “Matlock” on somewhere? You are missing it.

funksands : Night Sabreen!

Sabreen60 : I’m out too. Have a great weekend and I’m sure to see some of you on Twitter or back here.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL….how many pills are you taking a day? another watershed

funksands : “I heart radio”

SallyT : AdLib, I am so glad to hear that!

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk …. thanks, I will do that…heart radio…

AdLib : Night CL!

choicelady : ‘Night all!

Sabreen60 : Nite CL. Take care of yourself.

choicelady : ADLIb – LUMBAGO???? LOL!!!

SallyT : I’ll be your junkie anytime, CL!

choicelady : Sally – your “funnies” are ESSENTIAL Sunday reading now!!! I can’t do without my Sally fix!!!

AdLib : CL – I know what you mean. But my lumbago…

MurphTheSurf3 : Good night choice, oh happy warrior

funksands : CL, I really hope you are right.

choicelady : Murph – I have the same sort of phone. You and I are clearly part of “old fart” territory! But any of us start talking about our gall bladders, and I’m outta here…

funksands : Murph, google “I heart radio” and you’ll see your options for the pc.

AdLib : Sally – You have a growing and loyal audience for Funnies, believe me!

SallyT : Have a restful night and see you on here later, CL! Don’t forget the Funnies! I know you won’t. You are my loyal audience!

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…no smart phone….just an old fashioned cell, flip style

choicelady : funk – from our Region IX director, the prognosis is excellent. Saving the rates in the “fiscal cliff” deal is another CRUCIAL thing. I have great confidence in CA. I think the other states are solid. I think the feds have planned this since 2010. We do need more providers, but the new crop of young’uns are coming quickly to be internists and family practice folks. It is coming together very well.

AdLib : Night CL, say hi and well done to hubby for me and rest up this weekend!

funksands : CL, that’s really good to hear! Have a great night and talk to you later

AdLib : CL – Hmm…that gives me an idea for an article about how Progressive Obama has truly been based on the legislation he’s supported and signed.

funksands : CL, what is the liklihood that Dept of Health will be ready to run all of this?

choicelady : WEll all – my husband is doing beautifully and is back to work. I on the other hand, am dropping from exhaustion. So I shall bid you all a good night and a great weekend. Funk and AdLib – enjoy your time in LA. Safe journey funk – glad you got home safely!

AdLib : CL – HOPE and Change sounds great!

choicelady : Sabreen – I agree! And across the nation the Red State refusal to implement health exchanges is making single payer a reality. I understand that EVEN in places where there are exchanges there are plans to have at least ONE government program. Is that not progressive and very cool???

AdLib : CL – It’s a great idea to pursue a Progressive internet/broadca st radio entity, you know I’m behind that!

Sabreen60 : CL, I don’t buy the conservative label either. He has initiated too many progressive policies to be considered conservative.

funksands : Murph, I(heart)radio streams nearly all progressive hosts on various stations online or on your phone. I listened to Miller this morning on an LA station.

choicelady : funk – I meant STATION, not just show. That’s a huge loss to all of you.

funksands : Murph, do you have a smart phone?

choicelady : funk – oh, I’m so sorry about the radio show! We lost ours about 3 years ago. They had Christine Craft who was WONDERFUL. Miss her a LOT. AdLib – I’ve not dropped the idea of streaming our own programs – just had a thing or two on my mind lately!!! I will get back in the swing of things soon.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen…I enjoy Stephanie in small doses and she is on the radio- in fact that is her show with cameras added for Current….I may end up getting Sirius so I can get Bill Press and Stephanie

funksands : Some people are only happy when it rains…

Sabreen60 : Oops. Hit the enter key. Stephanie is pragmatic even if her guests are not always. David Schuster is another one who was on the phone calling the President a wimp.

funksands : We lost our only progressive radio station in Seattle just a couple of days ago. It really sucks.

AdLib : Murph – Right! It is nice that conservatives are embracing Obama by looking at him as one of them. Too bad the firebaggers can’t take a page from their books.

choicelady : Murph – interesting. Had not heard that. But it plays right into the slavering critique of the fanatical left. Bah!

Sabreen60 : Murph, I will miss Stephanie Miller’s show. She

AdLib : CL – And an insult to evolution, associating it with Scalia.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and CL…the comment was from conservative (but reasonable) talk show host Smerconish.

choicelady : AdLib! That’s an insult to cockroaches!

AdLib : Scalia looks like what a cockroach might evolve into.

choicelady : funk – sue whom? Let ’em. Look stupid they will.

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…Scalia looks more like Jabba the Hut to me.

AdLib : Murph – I don’t see Obama as conservative at all. He’s that rare animal called a moderate and a consensus builder.

choicelady : Murph – that’s funny, but I honestly don’t think Obama is conservative at all. Judicious and careful, yes. Conservative – nope.

funksands : CL, you think the GOP would sue over the filibuster? I do.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen….Clint on and the Democratic Cngress of 1993 pretty much raised taxes across the board for the middle and upper classes- all without GOP assistance.

AdLib : Funk – Scalia does indeed look like a Sith Lord. I can see him saying something in private like, “We must stop Obama! We shall make him bow down to The Dark Side! And he can go to hell too!”

choicelady : AdLib and SAbreen – Ginsburg cannot resign until Harry revises the filibuster. I remember when a filibuster was a BFD – headline grabbing. It was a commitment. NO MORE of this filing a paper and heading for Aruba!!! It has to mean you stand up and DO SOMETHING over what you believe. You’d see it fall to almost nothing.

funksands : Murph that might be true!

Sabreen60 : Another point Lawrence made is that $400,000 is equivalent (based on inflation)to what $250,000 was in 1993 under Clinton-actually about $397,000.

funksands : Murph, Granholm was really coming into her own, she’ll find a replacement gig in no time.

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…I read today that Obama is the only truly compassionate conservative in DC now.

choicelady : funk!!!!! That is TOO funny!

SallyT : I know she is, AdLib, and so is her husband. I think he is really near death.

choicelady : AdLib – I embrace Obama’s considerations: you may always sacrifice yourself for your cause. You may NEVER sacrifice anyone else. It’s that simple.

funksands : Ad, Scalia is a sith. Sith need only hate.

AdLib : Sally – I think Ginsburg will be out soon, she is ill. If only Scalia would need to retire…

choicelady : Sabreen – I appreciated O’Donnell’s comments a great deal. There is a HUGE division in the US, and it’s not Right-Left but those with policy making experience and those who know nothing of democratic operations. It makes an enormous difference in how you see the world. O’Donnell, as former Chief of Staff to Moynihan, is simply amazing. He has nailed it, and his word is righteous. We now have THE most graduated tax structure since before Reagan. We saved MANY programs that help those hanging by their fingernails. What Obama did is outstanding. The additional revenues WILL be found especially if the GOP loses control of the House in 2014. BUT I also am into good stewardship, and I appreciate Obama’s efforts to strengthen things through careful cuts to waste as he did with Medicare. These are all good things. Deaniac made that clear last week on trimming the amount we pay on INTEREST that could go to programs. It’s a very solid, progressive view. Except the Left can’t understand it. Feh!

MurphTheSurf3 : Funk and Sally…Jennifer Granholm has already resigned; Bill Press’s website is providing instruction about how to follow him on the radio. They are the two I will miss. The rest…nope…

funksands : Sally, AlJazeera seems reasonably credible for main stream media, it will be interesting to see how they position themselves for mainstream American audiences.

AdLib : Sabreen – Thanks for pointing that out. Obama got Repubs to vote for higher taxes on the wealthy, no matter how it’s parsed. Extended unemployment, extended money for renewable energy, extended the AMT fix, on and on. This was good for America and had a Repub passed this bill, there would be shock and applause from the same people complaining about this deal. It’s not everything it could have been but far more than we’ve seen previous presidents in recent memory pass…especiall y in light of how much plutocrats control DC today.

SallyT : How long do you think it will be before Ruth Bader Ginsburg retires? I know she was waiting to see if Obama got re elected.

funksands : Sabreen, very true. Obama has not shown himself willing to cause pain to others simply to score a bigger political win. Partisans would be happier with a big political win regardless of the ends or means. I struggle myself sometimes with those feelings.

Sabreen60 : My concern was the 2+ million people depending on unemployment compensation to survive had PBO NOT cut a deal. Actually Lawrence O’Donnell who said he wrote tax law when he worked for the Senate said PBO is the first Democratic President to get Repubs to pass a big tax increase since. FDR. Bush1 is the last President to get any kind of substantial tax increase passed. Clinton couldn’t do it.

funksands : CL, your comment about the SCJ’s was a good one. At this point with justices in their 40’s and 50’s hope is all we have.

SallyT : Probably so, Funk. I watch AlJazeera on the computer. They seem to have their programming intact.

choicelady : Murph – it speaks well of you that you think the other RW justices HAVE souls, lost or not.

funksands : Sorry, Sabreen

funksands : Sally, everyone on Current will be gone. Al-Jazeera has their own brand and vision.

choicelady : Sabreen – yes, I love Deaniac, too. And the Obama Diaries and many other sites. We have to refresh ourselves with civility and facts becauses there are too many wingnuts and goobers out there hurling BS and pretending it’s insightful!

funksands : Ad, with a loyal opposition that type of financial tuning is possible. Not while fighting the Sleestaks

MurphTheSurf3 : CHOICE… I forget about the Black/Warren conversions…a cause for hope for Roberts indeed…the rests of the cons are lost souls.

AdLib : Funk – I know what you mean but as CL says, I do think it would end up slamming those with the least very hard, so soon after the 2008 crash. I do think there should be a gradual and continual move in that direction, raising taxes more on the wealthy and reforming irresponsible spending…witho ut harming the safety net for the retired and the poor.

choicelady : funk – I see your reasoning. I think, over time, Obama will undo the paralysis. At least I hope so!

choicelady : funk – I missed Ezra. Glad he did that.

Sabreen60 : CL, I love Deaniac83 at TPV. I also frequent The Obama Diary. I watch a link from the program The Cycle and heard Steve Kornacki refer to the President as “that guy” several times and say that PBO sent VP Biden because PBO was scared. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Of course Cenk is a nutjob, who BTW probably won’t have a job much longer (I hope) because Gore sold Current to Al Jazeera.

choicelady : Sally – No. Sorry. It’s not an amendment to permit Michelle Obama to create a fashion statement. I, on the other hand, want now the right to arm bears. THAT would make hunters sit up and take notice!

funksands : As it it is, the fiscal cliff deal made the tax code a wee bit more progressive which is good, help cut the deficit a bit more which is stupid, and scored a nice political win for the President. Averaged all together its kind of “meh”. The debt ceiling fight is the one I’ve been worried about.

choicelady : Murph That’s EXACTLY what I was thinking about. Thank you for your references and insights. I totally agree! But I was as wretched as you over the jaw-dropping “interpretation “. Who ARE these troglodytes we robe and place on the highest court in the land??? My one hope – and it’s only a hope – is that there is some twinkle of evidence that the majesty of the law is affecting Roberts in a positive way. It happened to Black (with KKK roots) and Warren (architect of the Japanese internments). It MAY be happening to Roberts. I live in hope.

SallyT : Funk, I loved Biden, you could tell he was enjoying his time.

funksands : CL, no doubt. My argument, lame as it may be is that those same people are actually hurt MORE long term by Congress being paralyzed fiscally than they would be by the fiscal cliff becoming a reality. Make sense?

funksands : Ezra Klein had a great piece on Biden tonight subbing for Lawrence. Really good one.

choicelady : funk – the pain would have fallen on too many people such as the unemployed if we’d let the whole thing crash. AND it would have implicated Obama as being irresponsible. I have real confidence that he will keep things moving. In one of those wonderful moments, WALL STREET is on our side over the debt limit. I love it when a plan comes together! In this case – I will take allies wherever they may be.

SallyT : AdLib, you mean “the right to bare arms” isn’t a sleeveless shirt?

MurphTheSurf3 : CL….The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess and carry firearms. In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two landmark decisions officially establishing this interpretation. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. In dicta, the Court listed many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession as being consistent with the Second Amendment. In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government. OF COURSE WHAT ONE CONSERVATIVE COURT RULES ANOTHER CAN OVERTURN. WHEN THAT RULING WAS WE MADE WE POLITICAL/CONSTI TUTIONAL HISTORIANS WRETCHED.

AdLib : CL – Yep, hoping to hook up with Funk when he’s here.

AdLib : Murph – Thanks for underlining that, the full phrase is mostly sliced up by the RW to justify their paranoia. “A well regulated militia” is the preface to the right to bear arms, not a separate concept of some kind. The RW should have this BS exposed.

funksands : Ad, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand I thought it ended up being a pretty good political deal for the President, and made the Republicans look stupid. On the other, I think politically it might have been better to finally lance this 12 year old boil once and for all and hit the reset button on 12 years of fiscal bullshit. Economically that would have hurt though.

SallyT : On the up beat, I loved watching VP Biden at the swearing in ceremonies! He was like your silly uncle you just loved to have come over.

choicelady : Sabreen – dear heart, stick with The People’s View (thepeoplesview. net) and here. Even PoliticusUSA has gotten weird. I love Sarah and know her personally, but she and Jason suddenly have obtained a large hair on fire contingent of nasty LW extremists. Can’t explain it, but it’s not much fun over there anymore.

funksands : Ad, good point.

choicelady : Murph – I believe a recent SCOTUS ruling determined that the first clause was irrelevant. So much for “original intent”.

AdLib : Funk – Yeah but at what other dump is there an open bar?

Sabreen60 : Funk, I doing ok. Keeping up with my exercising per my doctor’s advice and trying to maintain my sanity after reading and hearing comments about the “deal” from supposedly progressives.

choicelady : funk and AdLib – hope you can get together in that dump known as LA.

AdLib : How do folks here feel about the tax cut deal?

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib..a word about original intent. The 2nd Amendment has an anchoring antecdent…”A well ordered militia being necessary….” The Framers knew precisely what that meant. The Minutemen who defended Lexington and Concord were organized as local militia under the authority of local government. It was this militia that would remain the core of the expansible army that was at the core of U.S. defense until the Mexican American war. I could say a lot more, but the 2nd Amendment is about keeping a national government or a state government from outlawing local militias (which also included their policing forces)

choicelady : Sabreen – I know. Dissing this amazing president is another form of derangement about reality. It adds to the “justifable homicide” mentality, it really does.

funksands : CL: Los Angeles for a week. What a dump that place is.

SallyT : Well, Funk, you would have to be out of town to get any RAYS. Not much here, for sure.

funksands : Hey Sabreen. How’ve you been?

choicelady : Oh wow funk – awesome! Where are you headed? (I live vicariously thru my friends…)

Sabreen60 : Hi Funk!

AdLib : Funk – Great, looking forward to it!

funksands : CL: Sydney

Sabreen60 : AdLib, Krugman hasn’t given PBO credit for anything. He and other firebaggers seem to think disrespecting PBO and calling him names is acceptable.

choicelady : funk – I saw that on Twitter. Where’d you go?

funksands : Ad, I’ll shoot you an email this weekend.

funksands : Sally I have been away catching a few rays. Back home for a day before I am off again…

choicelady : ‘Night kes!

SallyT : Goodnight, Kes. Have a good weekend!

funksands : Deal

kesmarn : Will do, funkie! Give the kiddos a hug for me.

choicelady : Sabreen – I know. I thought Krugman had grown up but noooo.

funksands : Kes, you wound me. Retire already so you can stay up later

AdLib : Sabreen – Didn’t Krugman attack Obama for the tax deal?

choicelady : kes – are you leaving? Just because it’s getting late…How are your retirement plans going? Have I missed all that while I was away?

kesmarn : G’night, funk! Hope to catch you next week!

funksands : You all made it!! You survived Fiscal Bigfoot!! Hooray!

Sabreen60 : Krugman is now (actually has been) on my shit list. He called PBO a wimp and Conceder-In-Chie f. I’ll willing to bet he didn’t call Clinton a wimp when he couldn’t get that big tax increase he wanted passed.

AdLib : Hey Funk!

funksands : Wha????

SallyT : Funkie, where have you been!

choicelady : Hey funk! Great to see you!

kesmarn : OK, funk! Leave it to you to waltz in just as I’m on the way out the door!

AdLib : Night Kes, sleep well!

choicelady : Good night KT! Great having you here!

AdLib : Night KT! Looking forward to this weekend’s music thread!

SallyT : Got to go, KT? Well, if you have to, have a good night and I will see you later around here somewhere!

funksands : Good evening folks!!

choicelady : Sorry – punched the wrong key. “I have abandoned my search for truth and am now looking for a good fantasy.” I think, however, it’s TOO TRUE.

kesmarn : Likewise here, KT. Good night to you and to all. Have a restful weekend!

Sabreen60 : Good Nite KT. You have a greet weekend, too.

choicelady : kes – I missed that reference in Krugman. Good for him. There is a very funny T-shirt I like:

KillgoreTrout : Well good folks, I think it’s time for me to say good night and have a great weekend!

AdLib : I would like to see laws on the state level as a start, regulating ammunition, which can’t be argued as a 2nd Amendment right by the so called “original intent” types. Because bullets didn’t exist back then! Only gunpowder and lead projectiles! Make those legal then and what do gun owners who don’t own muskets do?

kesmarn : Paul Krugman cited that book, c’lady.

choicelady : AdLib – See? Even I live with delusion that the Bush family might do something positive. LOL!!

choicelady : AdLib – I find it impossible to understand people who hang onto fantasy in the light of accurate proof to the contrary. But back in the 50s there was a very useful book, “When Prophecy Fails” that analyzed space ship cults. When the ships did not show up at the appointed “scientifically proven” time, the belief got STRONGER not weaker. I cannot understand that, but the evidence is there. I suspect there are people still tinkering with the Mayan calendar…

KillgoreTrout : Ad, that’s partly because shooting paper targets is easy. Not so easy when the target shoots back.

SallyT : KT, more Peace and Love songs?

AdLib : CL – I don’t figure the Bushes for going to any great lengths to help the nation as a whole, what’s in it for them? That’s how they think.

kesmarn : Their motto? “Reality: We Create Our Own”

KillgoreTrout : I think musicians should start writing more anti gun songs. Get that sentiment back into our culture.

AdLib : Is it really a surprise that Repubs don’t believe in facts or science and in the cases of most of the things they believe in, they are aggressive about their ignorance? When it comes to Trickle Down economics, the facts are in and prove that the wealthy don’t create jobs when they get tax cuts. Voter ID, no proof of in person voting fraud but stats that hundreds of thousands would be prevented from voting and when it comes to guns, as you say CL, not one documented case of a mass shooting prevented by someone armed with a gun stopping the killer. Facts, they’re not for Repubs.

choicelady : AdLib – I agree. The NRA represents gun makers and dealers NOT owners. I think an internal rebellion and breakaway organization would do wonders for the nation. I hope those such as the Bush family would think about creating another organization now they’ve dropped their NRA memberships.

SallyT : It is, KT!

glenn : To all–thanks for all kind words!

KillgoreTrout : Sally, isn’t that the height of irony?

kesmarn : G’night, glenn! Sorry I got distracted there for a minute. SOLIDARITY forever!!

AdLib : Night Glenn! Have a great weekend!

AdLib : CL – Consider the “Stand Your Ground” laws which have directly led to more homicides. It IS the NRA’s position to bring about more killings, causing more fear and more gun purchases. They have become an evil entity and have so much control over our nation. It is scary and makes it imperitive to battle against them.

choicelady : Sally – right, but the idea that gunfights were the NORM is outrageous! They weren’t.

Sabreen60 : Nite glenn.

SallyT : Good night Glenn!

KillgoreTrout : Have a great evening glenn.

choicelady : Good night glenn. Time to flee from us commiepinkos. Or as a man I once knew used to say, commienazis. He was sort of all inclusive… Sleep well!

SallyT : CL, but OK Corral was because Earp was going after them for having guns in the town! That was against the law and he was enforcing it.

AdLib : Hey Sabreen!

MurphTheSurf3 : Take care Glenn….I will leave some selzer in my spray bottle for you…honk, honk!

KillgoreTrout : That’s a damn shame Murph, it’s nearly impossible to defeat a power that has sooo much money and influence.

kesmarn : Hey Sabreen! Good to see you on this side of the fiscal cliff!

choicelady : Hi Sabreen! Happy New Year to you, too!

choicelady : Sally – I know that part of our history. Hollywood changed our understanding of what is real. OK Corral was unique. That was NOT how the west existed!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…yes the guns in schools issue is just the newest venue..guns in theaters, in malls, in parks, in restaurants, in bus stations, in post offices, in state capitol buildings, everywhere….th e wild west without sheriffs who made the cowboys check their guns when they road into town.

KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen. Hope all is well.

choicelady : Murph – wow. That is seriously scary. I’m so sorry to hear that from your Rep.

glenn : Alright–it’s time for me to leave all of you commie pinkos. What dangerous people you all are–talking about unions as though they were a good thing! Anyway, great chatting with everyone tonight. Good luck with your Boehner limp dick clown car, Murph. Kes–keep up the good fight. Good night everyone! Thanks for helping me begin my first Friday in the New Year with laughter and good company.

Sabreen60 : Happy New Year folks.

MurphTheSurf3 : KT….I met with my Congressman last week. He is an older man and a good egg….he as much as admitted that his balls are in the NRA vise.

choicelady : kes – I have NO doubt we’d educate a wise and interesting generation, but the problem with home schooling is the lack of interaction with other kids. Isolation breeds fear even among our own folks. Teachers need to teach. We need to remove automatic weapons from sale, and we need to stop the idea that if we have anger we have the RIGHT TO KILL those who have offended us. THAT is the issue no one is discussing, and it began with the murders of prochoice people as “justifiable homicide”. Once you open that up, everyone thinks it pertains to their situation. The Religious Right started this with lynchings in the South onto abortion provider/support er murders. This nation HAS to confront the idea that you as a citizen have the right to kill those who afflict you.

KillgoreTrout : That’s funny kes!

SallyT : You know what is really silly is that there was gun control in the Wild West Days. They had to turn their guns in when coming into town.

KillgoreTrout : glenn so far it’s only been signing petitions, but I need to start actually writing my representitives.

MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…there were three armed guards at Columbine. Two were off duty police, one was a full time security guard. All were out gunned and in the “fog of war” unable to zero in on the shooters.

KillgoreTrout : would NOT leave a person’s body

kesmarn : As b’ito says, just call me ‘Toledo Red’

MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…clearly you are dangerous…..Un ion history is not about paganism…it is about communism….a pinko pagan.

KillgoreTrout : kes, you commie pinko!

glenn : KT–earlier you said that you were keeping the pressure on Congress for gun control. Just curious–are you writing to your congress person? Emails? Phone calls?

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…as I never tire of pointing out…60 percent of the NRA operating fund comes from its dues…..the other 40 percent from manufacturers and dealers (and this does not include two PACs and its foundation)

KillgoreTrout : Air Marshals use bullets called, “frangibles.” They are designed to brak about once they enter a body, so if thy had to shoot a passenger, the bullet would leave the person’s body and penetrate the cabin.

SallyT : There was an armed guard at Columbine. That didn’t stop anything.

choicelady : kes LOL!!! No – that would be hypocritical AND counterproductiv e! No but I will weigh in even without kids in school here. This is insane. I do know people who truly believe, without a shred of reason, that under a crisis situation, THEY would take out the bad guys. Sure…

kesmarn : I would go full-pagan, Murph, and teach REAL history. Like the union struggles of the 1930s! {{GASP}}

MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- home schooling…..I suppose you will be teaching bible based calculus…pagan

choicelady : Murph – that’s what I was thinking about. If the fully trained pros get it wrong…

kesmarn : I just hope the fight doesn’t involve weaponry, c’lady…

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….Lost in this discussion…the Empire State Building shooter in August 2012 where most the injuries were inflicted by cops trying to get the shooter…. «link»

AdLib : Murph – You’ve put your trigger finger on it. The NRA’s whipping up paranoia is at the heart of this insanity, all to profit the gunmakers.

choicelady : kes – I believe in free public schools, and damn if I won’t fight for them!

KillgoreTrout : Murph, I have nothing against revolvers, bolt action rifles and shotguns with small mags.

kesmarn : Time for the left to think about homeschooling? Only we would actually teach them to read write and do accurate math…

choicelady : Oh Murph – how sad they cannot see how they’re being manipulated by the NRA!

choicelady : Everyone – I read somewhere, maybe Mother Jones, that in all of the cases of mass shootings, not one was stopped by another person with a gun. The story from the man in Tucson who tried to stop Laughner is chilling – he was drawing on the WRONG man. He was stopped in turn by someone who saw what was happening. Under pressure even police cannot be accurate. My grand-daughter is 5 going on 6. I’d like her to go on for many more years and NOT be taken out by some gun nut supposedly ‘protecting’ her!

glenn : AdLib–I can just see the teachers meetings now. Forget about curriculum and helping students learn. Now we’ll have workshop days to learn how to use guns. YUK!

AdLib : I can tell you that if they started arming people at my daughter’s school, it would be a real battle with the parents.

kesmarn : Dear God… What a situation. I can just see some 22 year old, 100 pound first year teacher trying to get a weapon unlocked and in use before it’s taken away from her…

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad, KT and Glenn…let me weigh in on the “gun” discussion. As you probably know, I am a gun owner. A handgun in my corner of rural America where the sheriff’s deputies are at least a half hour away for protection, a rifle and a shotgun for hunting. Owned all three for a long while. No auto or semi auto capacity, no expanded magazines, no high caliber/enhanced bullets, no personal armor…and I am typical of those in my neck of the woods. None of my friends can argue the need for anything else and yet most of them are standing with the NRA because the NRA has convinced them that any gun control is the first step in the process of seizing all of their weapons. It works.

KillgoreTrout : I’m glad I’m old, all we had to worry about in school was nuclear weapons! Duck and cover!

SallyT : The police have shot many Innocent people in haste, I can’t imagine an inexperience teacher handling things any better.

glenn : kes–whatever happened to NOT bringing weapons to schools? It was just recently we were suspending students and even teachers for bringing weapons to school. NOW, it’s okay? I just don’t get the “logic”.

choicelady : KT – the FBI trained me to use a 9 mm and an MP-5. The latter like the AR15s is quickly convertible to fully automatic. I have no problem with guns per se – several of my friends who live under threat from RW extremists have them – but NO ONE has a semi. This nation is full of insane hun nuts so obviously NO ONE should have guns.

KillgoreTrout : Kes, here in Columbus, a shooting range is offering free classes for teachers, on how to use a firearm. The class was filled up the first day!

kesmarn : Yes, or somebody’s grampa to be aiming for the “bad guy” and take out a bunch of innocent bystanders in the process…

AdLib : CL – And all that’s needed is for a kid to bring a real looking water pistol or paintball gun to school and be shot. School is not a place for a shootout!

kesmarn : In Ohio, 640 teachers and other school personnel applied for 24 positions in a free concealed carry class. Oy…

KillgoreTrout : Ad, it amazes me to see so many gun nuts claim that AR15s are not assault rifles. They think just because they’re semi-auto that makes them OK.

glenn : Sally–I’ve been reading a few disturbing articles regarding armed teachers, and the NRA and gun shops offering them free training. It truly is scary that they think the answer to too many guns is more guns.

choicelady : kes – I know, and I worry MORE now that he’s doing this. I have no idea if schools can refuse.

kesmarn : c’lady, that’s terrible! These “amateurs” could be downright dangerous in a crisis! They don’t have the training they need for starters.

choicelady : Murph – tadtadadada indeed! Or – “don’t worry, be happy”. Whatever works for us being placid and vaguely smiling!

AdLib : KT – That’s a fact, assault weapons have nothing to do with hunting or self-protection. They are an offensive weapon for murdering people, end of story.

choicelady : kes – Sheriff Joe Arpaio, the zealot of Maricopa County, is placing semi-trained gun-toting volunteers into schools. This includes where my grand-daughter goes! I am NOT HAPPY about this. These volunteers are NOT officials but zealots. There are lots of Latino kids at my grand-daughter’ s school, and I am seriously scared about this.

SallyT : Kes, I wonder if the NRA would be for the Teachers Union if in their contracts it stated that they had to carry a gun? Sure they would be all for the unions!

glenn : kes–yup demanding armed guards in schools. And Christie just ripped Congress a new one over Sandy relief. Yet, the rightwingers never see the hypocrisy.

kesmarn : Especially for programs that won’t be effective, KT!

KillgoreTrout : Great point kes. It’s fun to spend other people’s money!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…as the Monty Python folks sing “always look on the bright side of life….” ta da, ta da da da….

kesmarn : Don’t you have to love the way the NRA proposed a hugely expensive program like armed guards in every school and then expects the (evil) federal government to pay for it. As if they were bankrupt (given the election contributions they make…I think NOT).

choicelady : Murph. Sure, dear. Sure they were.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, my biggest complaint is those damn assault rifles. They are made for one purpose, to kill as many PEOPLE in the shorted time possible. That’s what they were originally designed for. Where do we draw the line? Heavy machine guns, RPGs? Mortars? Artillery?

MurphTheSurf3 : KT, Kes and Choice….I calls ’em as I see ’em….not that I have actually seen Mr. B in his special jeans you understand….

choicelady : glenn – that IS true, but remember the other part of the story that continues. Mental Health Rights groups continue to demand very tight restrictions against institutionaliza tion. Most of the mentally ill will never be locked up against their will unless they already have harmed someone. This is a reaction against the 60s when conservative parents were committing their liberal kids. But it’s gone way too far. We’d not let someone with a physical disease refuse treatment if they were bleeding out on the sidewalk. We will let them refuse if they’re hearing voices and walking into traffic. NOT good.

SallyT : That is a shame, Murph. I liked Jennifer!

AdLib : Glenn – Oh yeah, I remember the real cruelty and destruction that Reagan presided over, including closing down mental health clinics and hospitals. He was not a good man, the destruction he caused echoes around us today.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I am sure those “pro lifers” were just trying to be hospitable in their own unique way.

AdLib : CL – Let’s see if we can build momentum now for meaningful gun laws including screening of those with mental illness…and especially at gun shows!

MurphTheSurf3 : sally and choice….Jennif er has already resigned. Bill has info on his website about how to follow his radio show (which is his tv show with studio cameras). I think Al Jazeera is going to tear the network to the ground and rebuid

KillgoreTrout : Another good one Ad.

choicelady : OK – the men on this discussion are providing WAY BAD VISUALS tonight.

kesmarn : Gaaaccckkkk! Bleach! I need bleach to get that image out of my brain, Murph!

KillgoreTrout : Oh Murph, I don’t want that image in my mental Rolodex!

glenn : AdLib and CL–you know it’s ironic or maybe poetic justice that one of St. Regan’s “accomplishment s” was closing down mental health clinics because they cost too much. I think we are paying the cost ten times over now.

AdLib : Bachmann would probably make Troll House cookies with extra nuts.

choicelady : AdLib – I had – HAD – great hopes about the provision for mental health parity in ACA. But the “mental illness registry” issue over guns is a REAL problem. It virtually guarantees people with anger and other issues who love guns will now NOT GET HELP so they keep off the “registry”.

MurphTheSurf3 : Kes-+– Mr. Bachmann that big virile hunk of raw sensuality…..i n an apron…..? Does he wear it with jeans that have the seat cut away…..ooooooo hhhhhh

SallyT : Murph, I hadn’t heard that they were taking them off. Are you sure?

kesmarn : Yes, here she went to all the trouble of proposing a bill to end Obamacare (for the 37th time) and nobody said “thank you.”

KillgoreTrout : Murph, that’s true. She is a veritable comic goldmine.

AdLib : CL – Wow, that’s awful. And the delusional thing like the “Duke” nickname is so similar to what passes for many Bagger Repubs nowadays. Mental illness is rampant. Hmm, I wonder if the ACA’s being cemented in and covering people for mental illness might bode well for our future?

MurphTheSurf3 : KT…not very trusting of you given all the Michelle has done to (I mean for)our nation.

KillgoreTrout : Those cookies might be contaminated with the GOP virus!

choicelady : Mruph – I did not realize Al Jazeera was taking them off. Sorry to hear that.

glenn : AdLib–Ann would NEVER let us eat the cake!

kesmarn : Don’t let Bachmann kid ya, Murph. MISTER Bachmann wears the apron in that family.

choicelady : Murph – real story.Anti-abort ion protesters once brought cake they tried to share with us outside clinics. Angel food for their folks. Devils food for us. We declined to eat any – you just never know… So I’m with KT: DON’T EAT THOSE COOKIES!!!

SallyT : AdLib, she’ll let you eat the cake. You just can’t have the bread.

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I just read your comments about Al Jazeera and Current. I agree but I will miss Jennifer Granholm and Bill Press.

AdLib : Murph – Can we get Ann Romney to provide the cake if she’ll let us eat it?

kesmarn : That sounds like the Boehner legend, c’lady. I think there may be a strong subconscious urge to self-destruct there.

KillgoreTrout : Murph, DON’T EAT THOSE COOKIES!

choicelady : Murph -NO! If Michelle bakes cookies, I walk.

glenn : Hi Murph–If Bachmann is baking the cookies, will Mitt be taste testing them?

choicelady : kes – I used to work for a man with a very sad past. Abandoned by his parents, his uncle took him in but had him sleep on the screened in porch (it was LA.) He grew up an angry bully with deep insecurities. He claimed his friends called him “Duke” – but he was the one who created that fiction of being like John Wayne. He was both horrid and mean but was also pathetic.

AdLib : So shouldn’t we be able to act when an alcoholic is the leader of the House? He isn’t mentally stable, how can you be one of the top leaders of government and be mentally ill? Oh right, when you’re a Repub, mental illness is actually a plus.

KillgoreTrout : Ha, good one kes. So true.

MurphTheSurf3 : ALL…I will consider your various levels of enthusiasm for my troupe as I move forward with my planning. Will it help you to know that Michelle Bachmann has agreed to bake cookies?

KillgoreTrout : Ad, verbal green pea soup?

kesmarn : I suppose the alcoholism is part of it, AdLib. Also, I think there may be a part of him that is very fearful. Fearful that he may fall all the way back down to where he started in his youth. As a janitor.

KillgoreTrout : Well if we ever see her heard turn 360 degrees, we’ll know for sure!

choicelady : glenn – Political bulimia. Explains MANY of the RW women!

AdLib : Glenn – Demons are relieved to get out of Bachmann.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, it’s a drunk thing!

choicelady : AdLib and kes – his alcoholism coupled with his intrinsic fragility make a very uneasy combo. I find his weeping very creepy.

glenn : Good one, AdLib–no wonder Bachman is so skinny. She just keeps vomiting. The political version of bulima.

AdLib : Kes – What do you think it is? Because Boehner’s an alcoholic? Or because he’s emotionally fragile and troubled?

KillgoreTrout : Amazing how that works kes!

kesmarn : And Bachmann’s head is always looking backward.

choicelady : AdLib – Oh that is SO funny!!!! It’s all so true, too!

SallyT : AdLib, it is split pea from her, too.

kesmarn : No need to apologize, KT!

AdLib : Sally – Bachmann is like Linda Blair except when Bachmann vomits, its called a speech.

SallyT : Well, KT, that would make you cry………..

KillgoreTrout : kes, I think so.

kesmarn : I know, right AdLib? I mean he cries almost daily!

KillgoreTrout : Funny Ad. Boehner surely is a limp dick. (sorry ladies)

SallyT : KT, I think Michelle kinda looks like Linda Blair.

KillgoreTrout : Hey Murph! I’d be afraid the act would rub off on me.

AdLib : Really, isn’t there something wrong with any politician who weeps so frequently? And I can’t recall any woman weeping as much as Boehner so it’s not a man-woman thing.

choicelady : AdLib – the way evil gets hold is indeed the demonizing of its victims. How it is that people don’t ever see through it shocks me. Every generation we have to fight that fight all over again.

choicelady : KT – Rosemary? Oh that is TOO funny!

kesmarn : And yet Boehner’s non-stop weeping is not viewed as unmanly…

AdLib : CL – Isn’t it more often the case that the ones pointing a finger at “the evil ones” is often the most evil? Hitler and the Jews, the plutocrats and the poor, the Extremists and the tolerant?

SallyT : Al Jazeera has some great documentaries.

choicelady : AdLib – Eeeuuuuwww. Bad visuals go with THAT name. Ick.

KillgoreTrout : Absolutely right glenn. When Obama shows a little humility, the GOP call that a weakness. They truly are clueless.

kesmarn : And looked a little like Mia Farrow??

KillgoreTrout : Michelle mother was named Rosemary!

choicelady : Murph – great to see you, and sure! I’d love to be your roadie for this new group!

kesmarn : Hey, Murph! I think I’ll just throw popcorn from the sidelines on that one!

AdLib : Murph – How about “The Limp Boehners”?

choicelady : glenn – since I work for a progressive faith organization that does not believe in literalism, it always shocks me that for those who do, it never crosses their minds that they may be listening to the Divvil. NOTHING Jesus taught is part of what they screech. Nothing at all!

KillgoreTrout : Thanks for the kind words CL. It’s been easier as time has passed.

kesmarn : Wonderful, AddLib! Almost didn’t recognize Mitt there!

MurphTheSurf3 : Hello ALL….I am forming a Crying Clown Troupe called the Boehners….anyo ne want to sign up?

choicelady : KT – Can’t beat the Irish for spot on sentiments!

AdLib : In case you missed it, an easy way to spot evil people, my photoshop images: «link»

KillgoreTrout : Ad, maybe some of Al Jazeera’s professionlism will rub off on our media!

choicelady : Sally – I DO look at Al Jazeera on computer.

kesmarn : Sally, I should have thought of that! Al Jazeera streaming. I think I watched that during the Arab spring and then didn’t even think about it when I dropped cable.

glenn : KT–how can we have humility when we’re the “exceptional” ones? Geez, that one always gets me. Another example of the rw refusal to look outside their bubble.

choicelady : Sally – so do we, and I don’t, so I don’t get it. But now maybe we will.

choicelady : kes – LOL!!! It must have been like dealing with Damian in “The Omen”!!!

SallyT : CL, I already have to pay more to get Current on Comcast.

KillgoreTrout : CL, I love that. I am of Irish descent, and think they have some wonderful sayings.

kesmarn : Michelle must have been the scariest baby in the newborn nursery, c’lady.

choicelady : KT and AdLib – I also am thrilled Al Jazeera is taking over Current. Now let’s see if Comcast will let me have it without having to pay more money for it!

KillgoreTrout : Exactly Sally, a little humility certainly wouldn’t hurt us. That’s one thing I really like about Obama. He has often said that have made some pretty big mistakes.

SallyT : Kes, you can get Al Jazeera on your computer.

choicelady : kes – Michelle was BORN with glittering eyes!

choicelady : KT – I’ve always been amazed that you survived the Marines. You’re too bloody independent minded! So many of my friends who went through Vietnam came out stronger for it. Not easily, mind you, but stronger in the long run. You are one of them. I am always in awe.

kesmarn : When I still had cable, Al Jazeera was one of the channels. They were really quite objective, I thought…

AdLib : KT – I am very happy about Al Jazeera taking over Current, as you say, a real news org, one with backing and supporters and a thumb in the eye of Fox and the RW anti-Islam nutjobs. Love it!

KillgoreTrout : glenn, great idea. There are some really great ones.

choicelady : Irish prayer: May those who love us, love us; and those who don’t love us, may God turn their hearts; and if He doesn’t turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles so we’ll know them by their limping

glenn : Sally–I know what you mean about knowing what they’re saying. But I truly think part of the problem is repeating their lies gives them legitimacy that they wouldn’t have had in the past. And as far as correcting them goes, I look at that in two ways also. The election gave me hope; yet listening to Boehner and McConnell lately is like listening to them two years ago, or four years ago. It’s maddening.

KillgoreTrout : Thanks kes. It’s funny that you say that, because before I even got to Parris Island, I swore to myself that I wouldn’t allow them to turn me into a robot. It was a struggle at times.

kesmarn : I guess Michelle Bachmann has the evil costume nailed then, c’lady! Those eyes!

SallyT : KT, I will be interested in seeing how Al Jazeera handles it. They have been know to show the US not in glowing lights. But, there are times when we should have the lights out!

AdLib : Glenn – Great suggestion for Music thread!

AdLib : CL and Kes – That is something that needs to be remembered, evil people don’t always look evil and how they go about their evil can be very simplistic. So true about the Koch brothers, they look like feeble old men and Rove doesn’t look so threatening yet they are all hugely evil and powerful. It is always the acts of people that must be used to define them, not the superficiality of their appearance or manner.

kesmarn : glenn — I like that idea!

kesmarn : Well put, c’lady. Evil doesn’t look like a monster. As you said — “smiling guys with crosses (or swastikas or whatever) and flags.”

choicelady : OK – we need a law. If you’re evil, you have to grow fangs and have eyes that glow in the dark.

KillgoreTrout : I loved hearing that Al Gore sold Current to Al Jazeera. A genuine news organization. None of this news as entertainment crap we’ve been used to.

glenn : Hey KT–I haven’t been on this Planet that long, but how about “protest” songs as a theme? I used to do my housework with Peter, Paul, and Mary, Bob Dylan, Arlo Guthrie, and others blaring on my record player. Yes, I’m that old!

kesmarn : It always amazes me that you went through Marine training, KT, and still can see so clearly how violence solves nothing. You were able to keep a part of your brain in an objective mode.

SallyT : Glenn, I have thought that too that maybe they shouldn’t repeat FOX so much. But, at the same time, I feel it is necessary to see the junk that they are feeding to those followers. Just to be on guard to correct them.

AdLib : Glenn – No question in my mind that Fox News has made a huge contribution to the denigration of political discourse and “news” in this nation. Wish we had a truth in news law here like Canada, would change things very quickly and bring the level of discourse up overnight.

choicelady : AdLib and kes – Arendt’s point was that evil is not all that distinguishable from ordinary life. Her insight was very frightening. We don’t need storm troopers. We just need smiling guys with crosses and flags = and a deep desire to create an elite with all the privileges. AdLib – remember the photos of Koch from Palm Springs? What an ordinary looking man. THAT is what she meant.

KillgoreTrout : kes, I just can’t let let if fall into the dustbin of apathy any longer. Even if I’m the only one bugging Congress to do something. Too many wanna-be Rambos in this country.

AdLib : KT – Yes, personal faves, guilty pleasures, fave nostalgic songs, so many themes and so much music to share!

kesmarn : Yes, the Eichmann trial would be the place for that phrase to be used in description, wouldn’t it?

glenn : CL–I agree. Sometimes I think the other media outlets should ignore fox, and not quote them. Just let them repeat their ignorance to each other in an endless loop. Then again, there’s always the old statement, “know thine enemy”.

choicelady : kes – “the banality of evil” is precisely the correct way to view all this! Thanks for the reminder. Very helpful.

kesmarn : Wow…thanks for tracking that down so fast, AdLib.

KillgoreTrout : Ad, I’m really glad to hear that. I guess there is alway the personal favorites theme.

AdLib : Kes – Yes, that nails it, the “banality of evil”. Just found this on Wikipedia: “The phrase “the banality of evil” appears as the subtitle of Hannah Arendt’s notorious report on the trial against Adolf Eichmann…”

kesmarn : KT, good to hear you’re still on the mission of gun control. We can’t let the message of Newtown slip away.

SallyT : KT, that is sooooo true!

KillgoreTrout : glenn, those who know the least, obey the best!

choicelady : glenn – I know. I love Lawrence O’Donnell’s statement (that he pinched from his former boss, Sen. Moynihan) that “You are entitled to your own opinion. You are NOT entitled to your own facts.” I had a prof once who said you were NOT entitled to your own opinion if it was NOT based on facts. I’m inclined to think he was correct! What worries me terribly is the tendency toward polemical pronouncements from the LEFT as well. I’d just point out that our grandparents used to tell us, “Saying so doesn’t make it so.”

glenn : Sally–That, too.

kesmarn : It’s weird. There’s ignorance and superficiality on the right but also a will to undermine the democratic process and racism that are evil. Who was it that referred to “the banality of evil”? That seems to be the RW these days.

AdLib : KT – Well, if it’s helpful, I would either think of a theme that was timely, based on current events/weather/s eason or just go outside the box and come up with something completely unrelated. If you’re ever stuck, be happy to suggest themes but you’ve been picking some fantastic ones.

SallyT : Glenn and they are sore losers.

glenn : CL–the ignorance bothers me too. The constant repitition of that ignorance bothers me a lot, too. It seems no matter how many times you present facts to the far righties, they just keep repeating their ignorance. It’s like we never had an election; and facts just don’t matter. That’s what makes me think they are not that shallow; they’re just ignorant and proud of it.

AdLib : Kes – The leisure part is always relative, I don’t think it’s ever the hammock and the glass of lemonade that we think it will be!

choicelady : Sally – my mother was as dysfunctional as they came, but for whatever reason, she knew how to make holidays really fun. Very simple but always a good time. We did not have “issues” until very much later when she started drinking and got nasty. I was a full adult by then, so I just stopped going “home” then.

KillgoreTrout : I intend to keep up the pressure on Congress, for stricter gun laws. I just can’t sit by and watch this issue disappear once again.

SallyT : I hope you do live another 40 CL! I was just saying that when we are young we think we can accomplish so much. As we age, we realize that maybe we don’t have enough time to get it all done. But, I hope you do!

AdLib : CL – I remember the Watergate days and since. As you say, that was real core democracy stuff, the BS we hear about daily on the MSM about our politics and what most “fights” are over is so petty and ridiculous, much of it is just PR game playing.

kesmarn : c’lady, really it wasn’t too bad. Some folks just have their designated driver (of people — nuts) role and they can’t give it up. But after a while — you just laugh. What can you do?

choicelady : kes – sorry you had family drama if it was painful! Holidays just shouldn’t be anything but fun. Always sad when it’s not true.

KillgoreTrout : Good to see you glenn!

choicelady : Hah – Sally! Speak for yourself! I intend to live another 40 years! Seriously that is an issue, but I don’t think that’s what bothers me so much as the sheer ignorance I see around us. Nixon was purely corrupt. He was not superficial. From Reagan on, we have dealt with a conservative movement that is the embodiment of superficiality and repudiation of knowledge. That hasn’t been as true since the “Know Nothings” of the 1850s.

AdLib : Sorry to hear about Sue being down, hope she’s better very soon!

kesmarn : Sally, after the Prez’s fiscal cliff deal, I think the word “great” applies!

SallyT : Family drama, isn’t that the definition of Holidays?

KillgoreTrout : Ad, I worry about running out of themes, but then there is sooo much music out there.

glenn : Hi Sally, KT. Happy New Year!

kesmarn : glenn, good to see you. The holidays were good except for a bit of the usual family drama. Wouldn’t be the hols without that.

AdLib : Hey Sally!

SallyT : Hi Kes! How are you and I hope the answer is GREAT!

AdLib : KT – So glad to hear that, you inspire me to think up new songs for the music thread!

kesmarn : Hi, Sally!

glenn : Evening, kes. Made it through the holidays unscathed. How about you?

kesmarn : c’lady,one thing I’m hearing from the RW is that they plan to “reform” the electoral college and the way votes are allocated. Somewhat worrisome.

choicelady : glenn – we all remember when. (I also remember when I never said “I remember when”. Ouch.)

SallyT : CL, I must add that even us that are older were much younger when those things were happening. Youth makes a difference. Now things do seem to be tougher primarily because we don’t know how much time we have left to see if things change. When we are young we think we have all the time in the world!

AdLib : Glenn – Yes, I too have grown more pleased and confident about the majority of Americans after the last election. At the same time, I grow weary and depressed at the low level of reason and discussion the MSM broadcasts.

KillgoreTrout : Hey Sally, what’s up?

choicelady : AdLib – controversial. And because she (at one point it was a woman) may not like that he made it Constitutional. Only way to do this is to squelch it by not getting it to me, a citizen. I have no clout.But Darrell’s office does… : )

KillgoreTrout : Ha, Boenher acts like a high schooler, a lot of the time. Worst Speaker EVER!

kesmarn : It’s going well AdLib. But when does the leisure part start?

glenn : CL–sorry, you were the one talking about the shallowness of today’s politics.

AdLib : CL – Why would Roth’s supervisor try to squash it?

choicelady : AdLib – those of us a tad older than you (cough) who lived through Watergate remember that as horrid as that was, the fight was about CRITICAL issues of Constitutionalit y. NOT the “kill Obamacare” crap but real issues of presidential authority, limits on power, criminal actions. Today there’s no “there there” in anything the Right discusses – and it’s almost as bad on the faux leftie side.

SallyT : Okay, I will come down from the balcony and say hello to all of you.

kesmarn : KT, I think Boehner brought the deep freeze with him after he encountered Harry Reid in the hallway.

KillgoreTrout : Hey Ad, thanks. I really do enjoy doing them.

AdLib : Hey Kes! Happy New Year, hope it’s going well for you!

AdLib : Hey Killgore! Great to see you and congrats on such a wonderful set of Weekend Music Threads! Love ’em, please keep it up!

KillgoreTrout : kes, I said, a few eeks back, that we probably won’t have much of a winter. Clearly I was wrong. Maybe it was the thunderstorms in early December that fooled me.

kesmarn : Oh, thanks for passing along the word about Sue, c’lady! I hope she feels better soon.

glenn : AdLib–I know what you mean about “principled”. Part of the problem is our ability to instantly read/hear/see about what other people are saying and doing through the internet and/or social media and/or the increasing polarity of the media. However, I also think that those things may be what helps to define the discussion and get us all to think about what we’re saying. I am an eternal optimist, I think, and the past election HAS given me hope.

AdLib : Glenn – So well said! Right with you on all of that, as for big and awful things happening in our politics through history. What gets me about the current GOP and state of politics is howw small, childish and petty it’s gotten. Such hateful, uneducated, petty people making yelling during a SOTU normal? It just makes our democracy feel so childish.

choicelady : Hi kes! Yes, survived and prevailed! BTW SueinCA sends her best. Don’t know if you’ve talked, but she has awful bronchitis but is on the mend. She says HI!

KillgoreTrout : Hey kes and CL!

kesmarn : Hi, KT! Frosty in Ohio tonight!

choicelady : AdLib – I’m beginning to think that Roth’s supervisor does not want to give it to me. I’m bringing out the Big Guns.

kesmarn : Good Friday evening, friends. Have we all survived the holidays in one piece?

AdLib : CL – Thanks so much, as time keeps passing without getting anything back from Roth, I worry.

KillgoreTrout : Hey Planet folk! What’s shakin?

choicelady : hey kes, KT and Sally! Nice to see you up there in the balcony!

AdLib : CL – Thanks so much for the props on the 10 Worst! I wonder, if I went back in time and predicted all of these things happening in 2011, would most people think it was too ridiculous to be believed?

choicelady : glenn – many of us lived through those days but they seem more complex and detailed, more principled even, and now? It all seems so polemical without substance. There is an intellectual shallowness that drives me nuts.

glenn : AdLIb–You know, I think about your question often. Is it just because I’m getting old, and I just can’t understand the world any more? Do you remember when you were young and how our all “elders” were talking about how the world was going to “hell in a handbasket”? I sometimes feel that this is the republicans/tpar tiers problem. The world has passed them by and they resent it. I’ve lived through JFK’s assasination’ “Tricky Dicky’s” presidency; the Vietnam War protests; MLK, civil rights, etc. My only hope is that we survived those upheavals, and we’ll get back to the middle again.

choicelady : AdLib – I decided while cleaning up after supper that I’m seizing the moment and going back to Susan in Darrell’s office to see if she can get one of his Capitol staff to pry it out of the Leg Counsel. I think they’ll use the new incoming bills as a way of deflecting me unless I have clout.

AdLib : CL – It’s just stunning to think about where things could have been and where they are for your hubby! I’m so pleased! Hope you’re getting some rest but I won’t let you rest too much, anxious to get some HOPE going out there.

choicelady : Thank you, glenn. It’s a huge relief. He has an echocardiogram Wed., and if that’s clear and good, I will FINALLY stop worrying.

AdLib : Glenn – Will future generations look back in disbelief at what went on this era under the auspices of a mainstream political party…or will things continue to decline and we’ll look back to these days as, “At least they weren’t blowing up Mt. Rushmore back then!”

glenn : CL–So happy your husband is doing well.

choicelady : ADLib – I’m with glenn: your “10 worst” are simply jaw dropping. Thanks!

choicelady : AdLib – things are looking excellent. He’s back at work and today did a FULL day without crashing. I”M the one who had to come home early. Exhausted from the stress, but since I’m NOT A WIDOW, I am an extremely happy person!

glenn : Evening, CL.

AdLib : Thanks so much glenn! Very appreciated! It was a bit fascinating to me, when you pile all of their acts together, it’s really quite outrageous.

glenn : AdLIb–Loved your “10 Worst Political Moments”. You always manage to cut right to the heart of the political nonsense.

choicelady : Oh AdLib – what kind of puppy did you get her! I BET you’re not sleeping much!

AdLib : Hey CL! Wonderful to see you! Is all well with you and hubby?

AdLib : Sounds great, glenn! We got a new puppy for our daughter and it’s been a lovely but sleep-depriving whirlwind around here throughout the holidays.

choicelady : Hi AdLib and glenn – hope you had a wonderful holiday! Glad to see you both.

glenn : AdLIb–My holidays were very nice. For the first time in a couple of years, my two oldest step-grandchildr en were able to spend Christmas Day with us. So, it was a very nice day.

AdLib : Glenn – It’s almost unbelievable how these Repubs dig deeper and deeper holes when they’re already in over their heads…but I love it!

glenn : AdLib–so far my New Year hasn’t been much different than my old one. I am enjoying reading about republicans/tpar tiers imploding, though.

AdLib : Hey Glenn – Yes, can’t believe we’re already plowing into the New Year. Sure whizzed by for me this year. How were your holidays?

glenn : AdLib–Did you have a nice holiday?

AdLib : Hope you’re having a great New Year so far, glenn!

AdLib : Hey Glenn, great to see you!

glenn : Hey AdLib, are you there? What’s the word tonight?

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!