AdLib : Heh!
bito : one more: Mitt and his sons going to war with Libya «link»
AdLib : Night Bito! Rest well, pal!
bito : Yep. G’nite, meds and bed for me too!
AdLib : Night Sally!
bito : Yep, sorry to hear that KQ, I was hoping for the opposite, that you were getting stronger. Take care brother,you know my thoughts are with you.
SallyT : Goodnight Bito and AdLib!
AdLib : About that time anyway to wrap Vox Populi for the night. Thanks Sally and Bito and everyone else for making it a really great conversation tonight! Wishing you a wonderful and restful weekend. Don’t forget to join us for our live chat here Monday night for the last Obama-Romney debate! Have a great weekend!
SallyT : Oh, sorry KQ, but it will get better! I know it did with me. You have a good weekend! And, I know I will see you around here soon.
AdLib : Sorry about that KQ! Please do take care of yourself, take your meds and rest up! And best to that brilliant wife of yours!
AdLib : Bito – The facts are that what Romney says about Iran, Obama is already doing. There is no difference besides just lying and saying there is one.
KQµårk 死神 : Gotta go, take some meds and get some sleep. I’m up to 11 Rx meds now. The doc says my valves are getting leakier and heart muscle is getting stiffer. Of course all this was from the effects of a chemo drug in the first place.
SallyT : I know, I just had to drop a name, you know……
AdLib : Sally, you jet setter you!
bito : KQ, I think he can say that by showing how much European support he got and avoided a Russian blockage of the sanctions. What does Mitt want to do beyond sanctions? Or showing his hand with some “secret knowledge/plan” like Nixon and Nam?
AdLib : Yep, he declared that Palestinians had a culture that prevented them from being successful like Israelis.
SallyT : Oh, completely off topic, but I got a email from Robert Redford today asking for me to vote for Obama. For you, Bob, anything!
SallyT : Didn’t Romney screw up on his trip to Israel, too.
SallyT : And stick his tongue out!
AdLib : KQ – I think Iran isn’t that hard. All Obama has to do is say, “Romney’s plan is to copy my plan for Iran so as much as he complains about it, he also approves of it.” Then if Romney disputes that, ask him how. Romney has no answer for that because all he can say is, “I’d just be tougher, so there!”
SallyT : KQ, that is a balance, isn’t it?
KQµårk 死神 : Obama most difficult task will be hitting the right notes on Iran. First he needs to show that his policies have had a positive effect and second he needs to prove that we are against a nuclear Iran but not a pawn of Israel.
AdLib : Bito – Thanks. Many to choose from on this, Romney couldn’t decide whether he agreed with Obama’s mini-Dream Act for months, now he does. Sorry pal, a real President has to make decisions quicker than that.
AdLib : Romney would give Israel the green light to bomb Iran and when retaliation occurred, we would be obligated to join in that war and with his economic plan in place, that would be the start of The Great Depression that Obama rescued the nation from.
KQµårk 死神 : Yup seems like pedophiles have binders filled with Boy Scouts too.
bito : Sorry, got pulled away…. that is a great line AdLib. Mitt, You jumped on a foreign attack without litle to none facts being known and you can’t decide on pay for women after months of thinking?
SallyT : You have heard about the Boy Scouts and that is Mormon’s too. There is a sickness.
KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely or if McCain was elected as well. No doubt Romney would get us into another war too.
AdLib : Sally – Romney won’t be elected, thank goodness.
SallyT : If Romney is elected, KQ’s wife and I will be crying because we will go to war with Iran!
AdLib : Sally – So perfect Mormon Utah is the capital of porn and anti-depressants .
AdLib : KQ – She was sadly so right. And according to Seymour Hirsch, had intelligence people not leaked Bush’s plans to attack Iran, we nearly went to war there too!
SallyT : You know Utah has more porno traffic on the internet than any other state. That should tell you something.
KQµårk 死神 : I’ll still never forget the night Bush ‘won’ in 2000 when she sobbed because she said we are going to war with Iraq.
AdLib : KQ – Your wife rocks!
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib my wife said the serial killers line the night of the debate.
SallyT : You know, I bet Romney has binders of women but they are centerfolds from Playboy!
AdLib : Sally – Yes, Obama should be open to bringing up Romney’s disastrous European tour!
SallyT : And, London can’t do the Olympics.
AdLib : Bill Maher: “Who else keeps binders of women? Serial killers.”
SallyT : Once he figured out Gaddafi was in Libya.
SallyT : Once he figured out what the Lilly Ledbetter Act was.
AdLib : Or, “This coming from a guy who took weeks to decide if he supported our involvement in removing Gaddafi from Libya then changed his mind repeatedly on it?”
AdLib : Hey, might this not be a great pivot strategy for Obama in Monday’s debate? When Romney attacks Obama for the delay in determining the details behind the attack in Benghazi, Obama says, “This is coming from a man who had to take days to decide if he supported fair pay for women…then finally decided he didn’t?”
SallyT : And then Bush said, “The goat jumped over the bucket.”
SallyT : And, Bush said when he finally did that planes had hit the WTC in what “appears to be a terrorist attack”. Really two planes and that is just an appearance of an attack????
AdLib : Bito – How about it taking days for Romney to figure out that he opposed the Lilly Ledbetter act?
KQµårk 死神 : I live in the reddest of red states but the two times I passed early voting in predominantly white Cobb County it was 60-70% AA. The whole thought that minorities won’t show up the same way they did in 2008 is a bunch of garbage. Sure the young vote may be lower but I don’t think senior turnout will be great either.
AdLib : Bito – That is pure gold!
AdLib : KQ – Same here, bad trends do concern me and I do keep an eye on the OH polls but no legit poll has ever shown Romney leading and with two and a half weeks to go, I just don’t see it happening.
bito : Shae Ashe @WhatDid_iShae If you slam Obama taking 4 hrs to say “act of terror”, but were ok w Bush reading “My Pet Goat” as planes flew into WTC, you have #Romnesia
SallyT : Really, we aren’t enthused?
AdLib : KQ – I believe I read that Gallup also suddenly increased its balance of Repubs due to the “enthusiasm” factor. This is kind of a BS thing. Dems may be slightly behind on enthusiasm but it doesn’t mean they won’t vote.
KQµårk 死神 : I do sweat bad trends until they stop but I always keep an eye on OH polls most of all.
AdLib : I haven’t sweated the polls on a day to day basis. The main things to me are the trends in OH and PA. If Obama continues to lead as he has, Romney simply won’t win. And they have continued despite Romney’s strongest weeks. So, I am comfortable that Obama will win.
KQµårk 死神 : I think most of the undervoting was undercounting minorities because they are getting better with cell phones. But Gallup uses robocalls and I think Dems just hang up on those much more often than Repugs.
SallyT : They say that, AdLib, that they aren’t including those cell phones.
AdLib : KQ – Good point. And I wonder if some of these polls are including cell phones and if not, are grossly undercounting in polls for that reason.
SallyT : KQ, I think there are many women out there that vote different than their husbands once they get in that booth.
AdLib : Sally – Not to mention the quickly growing Latino population there, which is cancelling out and overriding the RW vote.
KQµårk 死神 : NC and VA were two other states with big undercounts for Obama as well. I always wonder especially with married women with their husbands around do they say they vote Republican and then get in the booth and vote Dem.
SallyT : Well, they pass that and CO will be Democratic in the future because there will be a lot moving there!
AdLib : KQ – And remember, CO was one of the states that, in the face of the 2010 Repub sweep, elected a Dem Senator!
AdLib : Sally – I’m all for that Colorado Rocky Mountain High!
SallyT : I am sure he has and promised China a lot, also.
KQµårk 死神 : If I recall CO was one of those places where the polls really under-counted Obama’s vote in 2008. They could be doing it again.
AdLib : Sally – Seriously, I would bet that Romney has had aides contact people in the Chinese government to covertly assure them he won’t attack them on their currency.
SallyT : Its the marijuana, AdLib, I’m telling you. That looks like it is going to pass there in CO.
KQµårk 死神 : Sally absolutely he’s sending mixed signals to China. Even in his book he criticizes president Obama for taking on China with the WTO.
AdLib : KQ – FWIW, my mother once again said her calls this week to CO had a more frequent positive reaction to voting for Obama (she volunteers at a Dem phone bank) so though it’s anecdotal, she’s seen responses increasingly more positive there.
SallyT : Do you think, KQ, he has some secret signal to China every time he sounds like he is getting tough on them. Like he is winking as he says it.
KQµårk 死神 : Sally so true. He would have sold his own mother to China for a profit.
SallyT : CO, with the Weed on the ballot might get more Progressives out there voting.
KQµårk 死神 : I’m not saying Obama can’t win FL. I just have a feeling he won’t. FL is so fickle and they even the Latino population with so many Cubans is not typical. I’m a little worried about IA and CO too but there I think it’s closer to 60-40 Obama.
SallyT : That is true, not even Bain would finance GM.
AdLib : Sally – I do think Obama should have made that clear in the second debate but he did address it. Romney insisted that a government bailout would destroy GM. Nope. He insisted that only private money should be sought in a bankruptcy…at a time when there was none available. So, he really was saying, “Let Detroit Die!” And OH with it.
SallyT : KQ, he would have liquidated GM and sold the equipment to China.
KQµårk 死神 : Yup and that’s now Romney lies about his own Op-Ed. He did say they needed to liquidate if they had to but now says he only pushed for manage bankruptcy like what Obama did.
SallyT : Of course, no one but the government was willing to put the money up for GM to reorganize. Romney doesn’t mention that of course.
AdLib : KQ – Despite all of that, I wouldn’t count FL out yet, it is pretty much a tossup right now, Romney’s up by 1% or so, within the margin of error. Turnout could make that Obama territory.
SallyT : And, him trying to say that the President did as he suggested and let GM file Bankruptcy. But, Romney wanted them to file bankruptcy and liquidate.
KQµårk 死神 : Obama won NH so I think he’ll win it again. I think VA is in true 50-50 category but I just never had a good feeling about FL this year.
AdLib : KQ – Yep, I don’t think Romney ever escapes that in OH. Thank goodness he’s such a pompous, know it all ass!
AdLib : Nope Sally, very little advertising out here in CA though I don’t watch much network tv. Mostly see ads on MSNBC, some really cheap ones for pro-Romney PACs and the strong ones for Obama.
SallyT : Yes, it was, KQ. And he ain’t to popular in ILL with Bain closing that plant that made half million in profits last year to China.
KQµårk 死神 : Romney lost OH when he said Let Detroit go bankrupt because it was the same as saying let OH go bankrupt.
AdLib : KQ – And there are others like VA and NH that Obama could pocket as well.
SallyT : AdLib, have you seen much Presidential campaign ads in your neck of the woods? And, how about you KQ?
SallyT : Those people in Ohio are sure sick and tired of all the ads! I bet it is terrible time for a swing state. There hasn’t been much advertising here in Oregon.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib The Obama team knows Ohio is their ultimate firewall. So far it’s been barely dinged even after the first debate bounce. Then they only need one or two other states like IA or NV or CO. I still think it will be the states Obama won in 2008 save for FL, NC and IN.
AdLib : I think the debate on Monday will be nominal in its effect at the time but will continue the slide for Romney back down from where he was after the 1st debate. His bullying act is wearing thin and grating, Obama knows what to be prepared for and foreign policy is Obama’s strength. Obama would even do fine with a tie because…he’s ahead. Romney has seen his best days, in the weeks that follow, Romney’s slide will become more obvious.
SallyT : AdLib, that reminds me of a show I once saw where they were interviewing two older black ladies. They both said that they didn’t like it at all being called African Americans. They preferred Negro. They said they weren’t from Africa, they had been born here and Negro was just a color to them.
AdLib : Sally – It reminds me of how black people also had to adopt the N word to own it and take its denigrating power away from the racists.
AdLib : Bito – If Obama had a bigger lead in the other swing states, I think they would have moved into AZ but I don’t think it’s worth draining resources from OH and the other key states, to fight for an upset in AZ. Still, that doesn’t mean they won’t win there anyway!
SallyT : Yes it was but now we like it, especially the President, so that ain’t no dig no more!
AdLib : Sally, “Obamacare” was around long before Romney’s campaign. He has nothing original, he just raids the work of others, that’s all he knows to do.
bito : I just think it would be just so cool and a complete shocker if either or both of them won in AZ. Within the last few days, the R PACS have been pumping in money. Do they see something that the Dems are ignoring?
AdLib : Bito, I like “Romnesia”! Why didn’t I think of that! And it plays perfectly into the closing days of the debate and disarming Romney of the support he’s gained. Discredit the liar and fraud and it doesn’t matter how much he lies, no one will care about what he says.
SallyT : Bito, he is just jealous that he can’t come up with anything cute and catchy except Obamacare and we like that now.
KQµårk 死神 : TC funk.
SallyT : Raining here all weekend, Funk, and sure in your area too. Rest on your tail and see you later around here.
bito : Cool Mitt, keep talking about the “Romnesia”. The more you say the credibility.
AdLib : Night Funk, hope to see you and everyone else for our Live Chat during the last debate on Monday! Have a restful weekend!
SallyT : Yep, looked that way to me, too, AdLib.
funksands : Folks I gotta turn in. Thanks for all the good thoughts. Rest up this weekend. Its very gray and gloomy hear. I may just sit on my tail.
AdLib : Sally, a lame attack and meaningless, coming from a guy who refuses to give any specifics for his plans.
KQµårk 死神 : This is how ridiculous Romney’s defense spending proposal looks on a graph. He wants to raise spending higher per GDP than in Korea, Vietnam, Ronald Raygun Mania and Iraq and Afghanistan when one war is over and the other is ending. «link»
funksands : Bito, it seems like this happened with Indiana and North Carolina in ’08. Nobody gave the polls much credence until almost the very end. Maybe Arizona is readying a sneak attack
AdLib : Bito – I find it fascinating. I think the Obama campaign is too occupied holding OH, IA, NH, etc. to focus on AZ but it is a fascinating prospect!
SallyT : I flip over to Yahoo for something and this is a topic headline: «link»
bito : Odd that in every poll on AZ The Dems are tied in the Senate race and Obama has been with thee to four but never any reporting or any major polling. Does no one believe it possible?
SallyT : If anyone can do it, you can Murph!
AdLib : Night Murph, thanks for all the great work! Get some rest this weekend if you can.
funksands : Night Murph. Go get em!
MurphTheSurf3 : Well…time to go….have to be out wooing the rural Missourians for my gal Claire in the early AM. See you all on Monday….
funksands : I thought so. I can’t begin to express how much I admire some of those volunteers. 12-16 hours a day 7 days a week. Its amazing.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…like the photo….I have a half dozen of those signs. Hanging in a hallway in my house.
AdLib : Funk – Very cool photo! Love it!
bito : Nice wall of support funk!
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…MIC Plus a Pliant Congress…yep
funksands : Sally, I feel strangely calm about the whole thing. Not sure why. I’m very nervous about the Governor’s election here, but not at all about the Presidential. That ALSO drives my wife crazy.
AdLib : Funk – Obama will win re-election, Dems will hold the Senate and make gains in The House. All the trends are there and have been for a long time. People understandably get concerned at the daily needle swings but I just look at the trends and it seems pretty clear what will happen in a few weeks. ROmney has never led in the key swing states that Obama needs to win and the numbers for Senate Dems are pretty good.
KQµårk 死神 : One conversation I’ll never forget is talking to a guy who use to serve on a boomer. He said every time they ran drills the best they could do was launch two or three SLBMs. Think about it even during the height of the cold war the best cold war machine ever devised was less than 10% effective.
SallyT : That is cool! But you don’t have my TEAMSTERS FOR OBAMA.
funksands : You guys want to see a cool picture? It’s from the office of my Obama/Inslee headquarters. «link»
SallyT : Funk, there are days that I feel so nervous about all this!
bito : Be careful about that bite C’Lady, don’t let it become worse. Good Night and have a nice weekend.
choicelady : Night all!
funksands : Sally, I sure hope so!!
funksands : All I know is my wife is a nervous wreck. She doesn’t know if she can make it to election day. We have so much riding on this.
SallyT : Do you think Romney will bring up Russia as our biggest threat again?
KQµårk 死神 : Sweet dreams CL.
AdLib : Night CL! You helped make it a great conversation, thanks! Get some rest and have a great weekend!
KQµårk 死神 : Murph like Obama said Romney has a one point plan. It’s keeping the plutocracy in charge and there is no bigger piece of the plutocracy as the MIC.
funksands : Nite CL
choicelady : Sally – I hope I killed it, too!
funksands : Bito:
SallyT : I hope you killed whatever it was CL! Rest well and hope to see you around later.
funksands : “No” and “filibuster” are easy strategies for even the Gohmert wing of the party. Once things get more complex, then the wheels come off.
bito : You’re right funk, and Raygun didn’t use drugs, did he?
KQµårk 死神 : Exactly Sally and the mentality the Romney has that having an extra carrier fleet in the gulf would make Middle Eastern countries behave better like electing governments that are more favorable to the US are ridiculous. The opposite would actually happen because they would feel more threatened.
AdLib : Murph – I agree, the GOP Elite want the Baggers stripped of power but they created a Frankenstein that they can’t control.
choicelady : OK – time for choicelady to hit the hay. Once again having problems. I got bitten on the forehead by something last night, and it freaking HURTS and is giving me a headache. Swelling is down, no real problem, but time to end pretending I’m focused, sharp, on my game. Giving it up and going to bed! It’s been a great conversation and wonderful to see everyone. Good night all!
funksands : Villagers in Berzerkerstan?
funksands : Sally, seriously. Mitt is going to build a sub every 3 months to fight whoooooom?
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…saw an interview with the General who was the chief of long term strategic planning at the Pentagon until last year…he pointed out that most of the extra money being talked about is for hardware when the problem is recruiting, training and utilizing first class soldiers, sailors, marines…person nel is a crucial problem in a military where a quick moving, flexible, and skilled force is how we will fight (small and smart)
AdLib : Murph – Definitely veterans affairs and maybe a link to them being grouped int the 47% Romney despises. Savings from ending war, coming home from Afghanistan, protecting against terrorism (killing Bin Laden), to name a few of the topics Obama wwill discuss.
funksands : Bito, it worked for Reagan
funksands : CL, that’s the time-test for insurgencies. It’s easy to run a decentralized guerrilla war, but once you actually have to govern, then the problems start.
SallyT : KQ and what is more stupid is that the next “war” isn’t going to need that type of military reaction.
choicelady : Ahhh funk. You’re so modest!
bito : Can Mitt use the military budget as a jobs bill a stimulus and make it sound believable?
choicelady : Anyone – my biggest question about the GOP is who is in charge? The establishment is…who? Is the takeover of the GOP by baggers now complete? Are they running the asylum? I can’t quite tell.
KQµårk 死神 : Bito and Romney arguments like the NUMBER of ships is important is so ignorant. One aircraft carrier group could defeat ALL the navies in 1916 for example and half our navy could kill ALL the navies at sea now. There are only about a half dozen aircraft carriers besides the 11 soon to be 12 carriers in our fleet right now. Not even including our six strike carriers that can handle helicopters and harriers.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…your scenario makes sense….still I think the GOP foundations are shaking and no one in the GOP establishments wants the TP to survive.
choicelady : funk – that’s bloody brilliant! It’s not isolationist but good sense. We have no need to be in more wars. We need to rebuild the nation.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk and Choice. I agree.
funksands : Ah. Perhaps I will watch it.
choicelady : Murph – I hope Obama talks about cuts in the Veterans budget etc. because that is the GOP doing, not his, not the Dems. People really do react to the abuse our veterans are taking due to cutbacks.
funksands : Murph, I hope he hammers the hell out of “Empire vs. Hometown”. You can’t have both. Time to choose. Romney not capable of framing that argument
AdLib : Murph – I don’t think the GOP dies in any scenario, it is too established and supported to disappear. They are stuck with a flawed institution that empowers extremists. The Moral Majority hijacked them and this new version of them, Baggers is doing it again. If the GOP Elite block them from power, there will be a civil war in the party but it won’t cease to exists. Either the Baggers will be placated, will win or will desert the GOP to start their own Loony Party.
SallyT : Funk, yes that is the yogurt guy fighting for GMO labeling on food.
funksands : CL, I’d like to think you are right. I simply don’t hear anyone I know talk about it anymore. Maybe that’s because they’re tire of it, maybe not….
MurphTheSurf3 : ANYONE…what topics will Obama insert into the “Foreign Affairs” night….Veteran s Affairs, The Pentagon Budget, DADT and Opposition to Defense of Marriage, The Dangers of a Big War Policy…other ideas.
bito : KQ, you beat me and said it better, but yeah.. What KQ says!
choicelady : funk – I’m not so sure that people don’t feel anything, but what they feel is exhaustion and ennui about it all. MORE war? I think not.
funksands : Sally, is that the yogurt guy?
SallyT : Yes she was! She held her own with those assholes.
funksands : Bito I agree, but unless you are directly affected by it, either yourself or family or friend, you don’t FEEL anything about the war.
choicelady : KQ – I totally agree, but I watch him demand the $2 billion and more – and I think it is his largest miscalculation EVER. He’s listening to a very few warmonger Military-Industr ial Complex people. VERY bad decision.
AdLib : So far, I’m 2 for 2 in predicting debates (I didn’t predict the outcome of the first debate but I would have been wrong if I had!) and I do feel very confident that Obama will prevail, even if the MSM calls it closely. It’s on foreign policy and Romney has Bush advisers and neo-cons advising him…along with no interest in foreign policy nor experience. Yes, he will lie and accuse the President of being an idiot for following policies…that Romney mirrors! But in the end, Bin Laden is dead along with Gaddafi and Al Qaeda has been devastated. The US is regarded with great respect after being despised under Bush and we have had no terrorist attacks domestically under Obama though some have been attempted. Romney will argue about how he loves Israel and Obama doesn’t but for most Americans who don’t want to go to war in Iran, he won’t attract many supporters. Romney will lose on points and on style, the bullying and disrespect may play to the base but it is becoming grating for undecided voters and will repel more than it attracts.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- Saw it…Goldie was a tiger. Love her.
bito : funk, maybe not war, but combine war with the cost, vet services, the budget and that puts Mitt on the losing end.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…thank you.
KQµårk 死神 : CL how Romney can sell INCREASING military spending $2 trillion in this anti-war environment is the toughest sell ever. There is simply no justification for increasing spending since it’s been increasing every years since 2001. Obama needs to pound two facts. The military does not even want the increased spending and Romney is stuck in the cold war thinking buying more cold war toys would be effective in this era of modern threats.
SallyT : Murph, Real Time had Gary Hirshberg on tonight.
choicelady : funk – I think they are aware but in a very different way from before. They are tired of the cost, tired of seeing their neighbors’ kid with TBI, tired of homeless vets, tired of worrying about the NEXT war – it’s changed from before now that we’re out of Iraq, the end is in sight in Afghanistan, and Osama is dead. Why would we want MORE of that in a NEW war with Iran or whever Romney pumps up as a threat?
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….BUT your scenario only works if there is a way back for the GOP as an ultra right party- the demographics plus the unhappiness among most if there is more gridlock- could sink that ship for good…in which case the party dies. So, reset and rebuild.
funksands : Murph: «link»
funksands : CL, I don’t think Americans are even aware of war anymore. Romney couldn’t have run on his bellicose policies even 2 years ago. I don’t think Americans think much about war at all. Not on the news, their kids don’t go, we still don’t pay for them, don’t see coffins coming home.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…nice….I need to look at it. Trying to get Dems organized in a rural Mo. setting is all consuming. I have to really hit them on their unhappiness with the corporations (agri business, and Monsanto) plus the failure to pass a Farm Bill and get them focused on the GOP as the enemy. Fighting a lot of forces here.
funksands : Ad, I agree. There is nothing that has occurred in the last three years that would lead the GOP to conclude anything but that their strategy works.
choicelady : bito – I think the key is that Americans are tired of war. Romney isn’t – he wants more because his funders love it. Make ‘em rich. But he has badly miscalculated what PEOPLE believe. I’d try to get him to insist he’d invade (fill in the blank – he’s open on the specifics) and then make people realize what a dangerous man he really is. This is the functional equivalent of the Johnson “countdown” ad – make people realize what an extremist Romney is, and how dangerous he’s willing to BE.
funksands : McCaskill +8
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…no, the news is?
AdLib : Murph – I like the scenario but it would contradict all that the Repubs stand for at this point. Cooperating with the Dems on passing legislation? With the core of their party seeing compromise as weakness? This would incite a civil war and uprising in the GOP…which works for me but argues against this being a probability. I think the GOP Elite would rather have Boehner fall on his sword (and cry about it) than ignite a full blown civil war…and possibly a defection of Baggers from the GOP to a third party.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…sent the nation over a fiscal cliff would ruin so many for so long, Boehner knows that this will destroy him and what is left of the center in his Party. There is a reason why he is not out there pitching for Mitt. And a reason Cantor is not pitching for Ryan.
funksands : Murph you see the latest Rasmussen poll on McCaskill?
bito : I don’t see Romney winning the debate with all his fear mongering and war talk. I think people are tired of war. Syria and Libya have him in a hard spot.
choicelady : funk – oh, I agree she was solid, but even SHE could not control this demented and rude man! He WAS acting like a playground bully, indeed.
KQµårk 死神 : I go back to your American Idol metaphor AdLib about the 3rd debate. Obama needs to win to win the American Idol crowd or it could be an even closer race. I think he will win but the stakes are just as high and people don’t expect much from Romney because of his lack of foreign policy experience.
funksands : I don’t know Murph, I haven’t seen much of that from Schieffer lately on his own show.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- I have confidence in Scheiffer…at a desk, his usual platform, he will nudge them a lot….and Obama will ally with him.
choicelady : Murph – that makes sense IF he can hold his seat. Look at what Obama got out of the GOP when they swore they’d never pass things at all. He is an amazing broker of deals, and if Boehner had a reason to fuse with the Dems on some things, well, it just might keep things moving forward even if more slowly than we’d like.
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…Obama was caught so flat footed in that first debate…his people never anticipated that Romney would be more two faced than Janus.
funksands : CL, I was pretty impressed that Candy stood her ground. She obviously was prepared for this, but even so it has to be startling to have to treat the GOP nominee like a rude 5 year old.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…here is how I understand it. Boehner cannot control the Tea Party. And he and the party inner leadership know these people are bad for the Party. So he makes a truce with the Dems to pass legislation that makes both parties look good and alienates the TP. It is a reset move.
SallyT : Crowley is a woman and she had that going against her with Romney to begin with.
AdLib : KQ – I don’t know, the shine is gone from ROmney after the 2nd Debate. I think a draw or an Obama slight win is likely but neither should change the direction of the campaign at this point. The Romney “win” in Debate 1 was about factors other than the issues being debated. Those dynamics just don’t exist now, Romney can’t exceed expectations anymore. I think the 3rd debate is relatively unimportant but seeing it is about foreign policy, I don’t see Romney gaining a real win…unless Bin Laden comes back from the dead.
choicelady : Sorry – that comment should have been for funk.
KQµårk 死神 : That’s was my take too Murph and I even wrote an earlier article that I thought those people were out there as well and even when the race seemed to favor Obama more that if Romney showed them a glimmer of being a real person they would move toward him. Another factor is what happened to Obama in 2008. Obama’s campaign was so effective at making Romney look like a clown before the debates that when Romney ‘won’ it really changed many perceptions people had about Romney built up by the Obama campaign.
choicelady : Sally – look what happened when Crowley tried to control Mitt. The president was pretty OK – Mitt was totally rude and could have KILLED her on the Rose Garden comments validation.
MurphTheSurf3 : Bito….you may be correct…someon e who represents Pelosi but is not her…yes, possible.
funksands : Scheiffer is to gentlemanly to stand up to Romney. I fear for the standards of the debate.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T…Bob Scheiffer of Face the Nation and it is table talk style
choicelady : KQ – that’s true. Dems won’t let people die to make a point. But we do need MUCH better messaging especially TO the people saved in red states. “We did this because we care about you” is an important message along with the money! And we have to start challenging the debt scare – I was “warned” when I was 14 about the hideous national debt we had then. We survived. We still are. We’re nowhere nearly in danger. This has been a GOP meme for, well, never MIND how many years, but lots.
funksands : Dem Blue Dogs in the House may be extinct by the end of this election cycle.
AdLib : Murph – That’s an amusing thought! Though, wouldn’t the Baggers only become more unruly and incensed if Boehner cut a deal with Dems to retain leadership? In the end, I think strong arming and spreading around campaign cash commitments will bribe enough unprincipled Baggers to support who the wealthy want running the House…if that’s Boehner or Cantor.
SallyT : Is there one moderator on the 3rd debate?
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ- regarding your read on the bounce for Mitt…I think there was a sizeable chunk of people who wanted a reason, beyond the real ones of hate, anger, anxiety, race, class etc., to provide cover for a move to Mitt. The Obama people are largely there and thus a smaller bounce.
KQµårk 死神 : Obama needs to win the next debate as much as he needed to win the second debate. I think he’ll do it but again expectations are against him.
bito : Murph, Don’t think it’s possible for Pelosi, Iit would have to be a blue dog.
KQµårk 死神 : funk that’s Democrats greatest ‘weakness’ in this partisan environment. They put people and governing before politics because they care about good government.
AdLib : KQ – I agree with your assessment, it makes perfect sense why Romney got that bounce, following his BS Etch-A-Sketching in the 1st debate. But it is also his weakness, as the facade unraveled in the 2nd Debate and will continue to unravel in the 3rd.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…the Speaker is elected by a majority of the members of the House. If neither side of the GOP house can do this, then the votes will have to come from the Dems….Imagine Pelosi in the second seat in the House.
funksands : What’s infuriating is that its estimated that at least 5 red states would have gone bankrupt or something like it without the stimulus. It makes me wish the administration had let them twist a little more. But that’s what Bush people do.
AdLib : Sleep well KT!
choicelady : LOL!! AdLib!! Yes – they should have planned ahead, those Baggers. I’d love to see them ONE termers.
AdLib : Murph – Yes but the COS and his colleagues would seem to be in the minority in The House. So, could they really re-elect Boehner in the face of so much Bagger opposition?
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….good for you. Every race counts if the Dems are to reassert themselves
AdLib : Bito – I bet we’ll see a majority of those Baggers in The House wishing they didn’t vote against extending unemployment.
funksands : Murph, I’m glad you are doing it. I’ve been working 2-4 hours a day on my state’s Governor’s race and haven’t been able to devote much time or energy to the national races. Of course my states pretty dull nationally.
choicelady : Good night KT! Have a lovely weekend!
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib because the right wing is so far to the right and the personality types that follow them are more cult like than independent thinking Americans it skews the whole political center in this country. Sure many moderate conservatives have become ‘independents’ but they still lean right and that’s a big reason Romney got an oversized bounce.
choicelady : bito – that is an interesting question. I have been paying little attention to congressional races. Is Boehner really in danger of losing to a JEW? Of course if he’s become a Christian Zionist ally, that might work for the Dominionist Bagger crowd.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT…fare thee well.
SallyT : KT, you have a good night and will see you around the Planet soon!
funksands : Hi Ad!
AdLib : Hey Funk!
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…feel like its WWI and I am in the trenches….orga nizing a large area in support of Claire McCasskill who I do not regard as a Dem- but now she is my baby. AND up to my neck in fighting True the Vote. Nasty stuff going on.
funksands : Night KT
AdLib : CL – It does seem a little counter-intuitiv e at first but it seems to make some sense. With a rational yet conservative GOP, Dems wouldn’t have the ease of just staying this side of insanity or gliding past details on how their agendas would work. They would have real competition and would need to be far more on their game. Now, all you have to do is say you don’t want women in binders and you want to keep Medicare and you’re a Dem.
funksands : I see the topic is the GOP as Whigs
KillgoreTrout : Well good folks, I must bid you all good night!
bito : of the 86 baggers running this year, (?) how many will get reelected? Can they muster enough support to defeat Boner?
funksands : Hi Sally / Murph. Murph how you holding up?
MurphTheSurf3 : Hello Funk
KillgoreTrout : Yeah funk, I should do something about that!
SallyT : Hello there, Funkie!
funksands : Hi CL
choicelady : funk! Great to see you!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I think the COS point is that the moderates, like his boss, are going to back Boehner because they know Cantor will bring them all down.
choicelady : ADLib – in policy I agree there were more conservative candidates. I’m not sure there were ones more psychologically screwed up though.
funksands : Hi KT! Long time no talk to buddy.
KillgoreTrout : Hey, funk is in da widget!
KillgoreTrout : Sally, that IS scary, but Santorum was just too radical, even for the extreme RWers.
AdLib : Murph – Boehner is clearly a failure and a weak leader in the House. It is hard to see what argument he could make for staying leader, aside from seniority and already being leader. He’s a liar and a crier, he folds to the Baggers and can’t negotiate anything. Let the Baggers have Cantor and see how it won’t change anything with Dems controlling the Senate and Obama re-elected.
funksands : Pleasant late evening to you all
choicelady : AdLib – now THAT is a very interesting analysis, and it makes sense! VEry thought provoking, and I think you are correct. One dimension even in CA is that the so-called progressives are determined that they have NO obligation to prove what they say – single payer or whatever – is actually feasible. They convert it into a moral high ground and have no use for facts. With more conservative GOP, this leaves middle of the road Dems with conservatie Dem constituents nowhere to go. They become the “NO” votes or abstentions where they might vote YES if they had ground upon which to stand.
SallyT : AdLib, I think if it hadn’t been Romney they might have gone with Santorum and that is scary!
KillgoreTrout : Sally, they will be forced to by those same laws of Nature. The world only spins forward.
AdLib : CL – Nope, I don’t think Mitt as the nom is as bad as it can get. What if Newt won because there wasn’t a near billionaire running? Or 999 king, Herman Cain? Or Rick Santorum? Imagine if Romney hadn’t run, one of them would’ve been the nom! That’s what I think 2016 could look like.
SallyT : Well, KT, I hope they get their heads out of their ass before Natural law swallows up all of us.
KillgoreTrout : The trouble with rabid conservatism is not realizing that change is a natural process, not only in pysics, Chemistry….etc . But in societies as well. The radical conservatives are being swallowed up by their utter defiance of Natural law.
bito : I there with you C’Lady, I don’t like conservative thought either, but waht we have now is a disservice to the country, too much hate.
AdLib : Bito – Yep, though I want a more liberal agenda in this country, it would be far more constructive to have a GOP that had sensible competing ideas so that the prospect of them winning wouldn’t be so disastrous and could motivate Dems to be far more Progressive.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- I know the GOP Congressman’s chief of staff from this district and he is a good man but very conservative. He will win reelection easily but he is not happy. He thinks the GOP will hold the HOuse but that Boehner will not be able to keep the Speakership without Dem support since the TP crowd is going to want Cantor and no one else.
choicelady : I am holding out for Canada. Not a fan of hot, humid weather or deserts.
SallyT : Okay, AdLib, I hope you are right. I don’t have the money to move to Belize just yet.
AdLib : KT – Yep, either Bobby from the Sopranos or Pussy.
choicelady : ADLib – you think we’re not already there with The Madness of King Mitt??? He makes George look rational. I think Mitt is mentally ill.
KillgoreTrout : Nothing wrong with sensible conservatism, but the party that calls themselves a conservative party is anything but.
AdLib : Sally, no, of course not, the GOP will be on a path to becoming a long term minority party that can’t win national elections. After a while, they will likely change course but that could be decades in the making…which would be great for us.
choicelady : bito – I never EVER liked conservative thought, but there were, indeed, honorable conservatives. My brother was a CO during Vietnam, and he was supported in his effort to get a deferment by Sen. Chuck Percy. THAT is honorable!
KillgoreTrout : CL, if he were governor of any other state, I might be skeptical, but Jersey is solid mob territory!
AdLib : Murph – Yes, I think many of the GOP Elite know what has happened and continues to happen to their party, this is probably their last chance for a long time to run someone for President who isn’t raving mad. And when they lose, the Baggers will trample them and grab the reins of the party. This is coming…unless they can win with Romney and stave them off. And that just ain’t gonna happen.
choicelady : KT – I alwasy said Christie could not run because he was mobbed up. I hear there are investigations into many bad deeds by that big boy.
SallyT : KT, I can’t look at Christie without thinking slop!
bito : What is sad for the country is that we don’t have an honest/respectab le Republican party that did represent conservative thought and not the party we have now.
KillgoreTrout : I just can’t look at Christie without thinking Bobby Bacalare! Or Soprano.
choicelady : KT – they (whoever “they” are) are bringing back the Palomino, a lovely dark black pencil you actually sharpen. I’d buy them, but I lose them, and they cost the earth.
SallyT : But, AdLib, do you think the general public is going to go that extreme to the right?
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…if Ann wanted gigs on Fox and conservaradio she had to toe the line to sell her books…
KillgoreTrout : HA! That’s funny CL. The #2 is a fine writing instrument!
AdLib : KQ – Yes, I am convinced of that. We have seen the last of the GOP as a moderate party, the only political vacuum left for them to fill is more and more extreme to the Right.
choicelady : Murph – NO! Ann has come over to Mitt???? OMG – where ARE her standards??? Well, then, she won’t be able to bitch,will she? Oh wait. It’s Ann. She can do nothing but.
AdLib : CL – I wonder though if Christie is authentic enough as a Bagger for them? If he is, seeing him run as a nasty, chauvinist against Hillary would be worth the price of admission.
choicelady : ADLib – it’s NOT that bad a phone! I don’t even have to have a separate suitcase for it!
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…but now the Shrew Ann is in love with Mitt….or so she says.
KQµårk 死神 : AL
KillgoreTrout : I only buy what I really need and don’t really go in for all the new tech stuff.
choicelady : KT – my kind of man! I call myself the Queen of the No. 2 Pencil.
AdLib : CL – And may I add to KQ, the cell phone she has in from the 1980’s and looks like a military walkie-talkie.
KQµårk 死神 : TC kes. This too shall pass.
KillgoreTrout : CL, I guess I’m a bit of a Luddite myself.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib your discussion about the Ultra Conservative reaction to a Romney loss is another reason why the GOP is going all in now…their real thinkers know that the schism in the party will be complete if Romney loses and 2014 will be a horror show with primaries on top of primaries pitting the TP crowd against the garden variety conservatives.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib and as demographics ‘corner’ the GOP more and more as a white identity party they will move further and further right.
choicelady : ADLib – I can hear Ann Coulter braying now. She predicted Romney would lose. Of course SHE wanted Christie who, I am QUITE sure, would be losing even worse. He’s despicable and SO mean he can’t even pretend to be warm and fuzzy.
AdLib : Kes, sorry you’re going to have to go in on another Saturday! Thanks for being here for Vox, always great to have your wit and wisdom here! Night!
bito : Good Night Miss K’es, Hope your day is easy tomorrow
choicelady : KT – I do have a cell because I travel, and it’s a lifeline, but I never have it on (just ask AdLib who tries and tries to call!) but do check messages now and then! But that’s it. My car has a radio. Period. I’m a Luddite.
AdLib : KQ – I have no doubt about this. The Baggers were denied “their” candidate and forced to swallow Romney. When he loses, they will be furious and feel vindicated that the Repubs lost because they didn’t have a true conservative. For 2016, they will be adamant about an extremist being the nom and won’t want another loss with a “moderate”. So forget the MSM BS about Jeb Bush, they’re not going to support anyone who isn’t extreme next time, And that’s good for us of course.
choicelady : Sally – that’s a nice reversal, taking your kids’ hand me downs! I just have no patience with stuff, so I don’t have it at all. My husband got a Blackberry for work and now has the “Blackberry hunch” – walks with his head down, hands up, and probably straight into a wall.
SallyT : Good night Sabreen and Kes!
KillgoreTrout : Night Sabreen and Kes. Sweet dreams.
bito : G’night Queen Mary
choicelady : kes – oh sorry about work tomorrow! Sweet dreams and hope you get some TIME OFF soon!
KillgoreTrout : CL, I must be unAmerican too. I don’t even own a cell phone….Oh the horror, the horror, the horror!
choicelady : Sabreen – have a wonderful weekend!
KQµårk 死神 : CL. I broke down and bought a used I-pod earlier this year only because nothing else connects like it. But I am proud to say I bought a new American car this year for the first time in 22 years. But I’ll be honest if it was not the quality I was use to with Japanese cars I would have probably bought Japanese again or even South Korean.
choicelady : Excuse me, Sabreen – with What? LOL! Nope – WE remember it all!!!
SallyT : CL, I only get my kids hand me downs. But the markets are set for younger people to keep buying bigger, smaller, faster, slower, etc
kesmarn : The midnight hour approaches, friends, so I’ll need to sign off. Working 3rd Saturday in a row tomorrow. Groan… Have a wonderful weekend. (G’night, Sabreen. Just saw you leaving.)
AdLib : Night Sabreen!
choicelady : KT – I think I flip the concern. I support whatever women want because it’s so intensely personal. I would not want to tell women they cannot have babies if they want them (I’d hope we could convince them not to be Octomoms) any more than they MUST have babies if they do NOT want them. It’s just too intimate to be telling anyone what to do with her body and her life.
Sabreen60 : Well good folks I’m outta here. Don’t get infected with Romnesia!
AdLib : CL – As a greasy snake oil salesman, it is fitting that Issa represents a district swarming with snakes.
SallyT : Do you think in 4 years people are going to be more conservative?
KillgoreTrout : CL, thanks, I thought it might have something to do with abortion.
AdLib : CL – Well done! I remember all those attempts to betray minor girls and force them to keep their mouths shut about incest or be forced to be ratted on to their father who had impregnated them. Such a Christian thing to do, these RW’s favored.
choicelady : Sally and KQ – I don’t own an iPad, iPhone, or anything like that at all. Does this make me un-American?
KillgoreTrout : KQ, that is what really gets me about these anti-abortion and contraception people. I would think the morality of saving the plane and our species is more valid than the moral arguments against abortion.
SallyT : KQ, that is so true. We have to keep growing and buying new all the time. I think Apple has already developed all this stuff out ten years and they keep letting one out every year so people keep buying new.
KQµårk 死神 : Exactly if Romney loses AdLib they will claim he lost because he wasn’t a true conservative. Yet they had choices during the primaries that were staunch conservatives and still chose Romney because he was the most ‘electable’.
choicelady : ADLib – yikes, yes. A perfect fit for him. Snakes abound there. I bet he’s trying to register them for him.
kesmarn : Absolutely, KQ. That film touched on that issue, also, and the accelerating pace of population growth.
choicelady : KT – parental notification for a minor girl’s abortion. CA now gives girls privacy rights, but these RWNJs want to out the girls to parents – even if the father is an abuser. Then they demanded a minor who contested her safety had to report to the police that she lived in an abusive, dangerous situation so the police would investigate. Sure – that’ll protect her! We beat this back three times, and now the proponents are out of money. Hah!
AdLib : CL – Issa’s district is Riverside County and northern San Diego county, not Orange County as I had mentioned. Riverside is rural and very RW as is Northern SD. Not a lot of enlightened folks out there, perfect for a sleaze like Issa to exploit.
KQµårk 死神 : Kes no one ever talks about our biggest problem as a species. We are just too successful when it comes to procreating. We live on a planet with limited resources and yet we don’t even talk about limiting population growth. In fact our whole economic system is based on population growth because that’s the only way you can have sustained economic growth.
KillgoreTrout : CL, parental notification?
choicelady : ADLib – I think Issa is San Diego. Did he get redistricted into OC? He could LOSE there since there is a large immigrant citizen population. Remember Loretta Sanchez beat the crap out of Dornan there! Depends on where his district is I think.
AdLib : CL – I think the GOP has no choice but to go farther extremist in 2014. The only part of their party that has any energy is their extremist wing, they can’t alienate them and their “moderate” and “economic conservative” base is disappearing. So, until the minority vote becomes strongly entrenched as the majority, which should be in the next several years, I expect the GOP to turn harder right out of desperation.
kesmarn : Heh! Just opened up an invitation to a “Bake Sale for Marcy Kaptur,” and at the bottom it said: “No corporate checks, please.” That is so Marcy.
SallyT : Okay, Murph, than he can have a big walk in closet but I still want him locked in it!
choicelady : KT -one win we DID have was over “parental notification”. Staged THREE times in a row by a rich Catholic newpaper publisher and Sebastiani the wine guy, it lost every time thanks in NO small part to my organization’s full court press against it. The guys finally gave up – they were OUT OF MONEY!!! Woo hoo. Of course, so are we…but we’re still in the game! They aren’t.
KillgoreTrout : CL, I don’t think it will deter the billionaires. They never seem to worry about how much they spend.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T et. al. Issa is the wealthiest member of the House…and is bankrolled on top of that…he is well ahead in the polling…no sweat.
AdLib : CL – Issa is in Orange County which is the refuge of scoundrels…er. ..Republicans in So Cal. A Dem could never win against Issa down there. We call it The Orange Curtain.
choicelady : KT – I can’ decide if the losses they will incur will deter them or make them worse in 2014 and 2016. Time will tell.
SallyT : Issa should be given a full length mirror and locked in a closet. He will be happy watching himself and the rest of us will be happy he is out of sight.
AdLib : I was actually thinking that the RW’s spending of billions against Obama has got to be stimulating growth in the economy and helping Obama become re-elected!
KillgoreTrout : Kes, technology is a great thing, but it is very much a double edged sword.
choicelady : AdLib – anyone heard how Issa’s own congressional race is doing? Idon’t know if he’s even contested.
KillgoreTrout : CL, I agree. When I think of the billions spent by rich RWers, and Obama winning, I just have to laugh.
AdLib : KQ – Issa should lose his seat for that and his attempt at a political lynching of Eric Holder but of course, he won’t.
SallyT : KQ, that happens when they go public and need to get dividends to shareholders. They no longer count the employee as a shareholder.
kesmarn : Saw an interesting film today called “Surviving Progress,” KQ, about how rapid, almost unlimited growth can be so damaging to humans and the planet.
choicelady : KT – oh I know, but it’s money in middle class pockets that has been drained out of rich men’s wallets, and that makes me VERY happy. Fewer diamonds, Rolls, trips to Aruba. It could be worse.
AdLib : Bito – very cool indeed! Thanks to Rich for his “generosity”! Very kind of him!
KQµårk 死神 : How about Issa leaking the names of Libyan informants. When are they going to put that guy in jail?
MurphTheSurf3 : CL appreciate the confirmation.
KillgoreTrout : CL, but those “jobs,” are of an extremely temporary nature.
KQµårk 死神 : Sally that’s true but it’s amazing how when they get bigger they almost always get more destructive. Apple is the perfect example. When they were smaller they produced in the US but when they started worrying about growing their stock they shipped their jobs to china and started exploiting workers.
AdLib : Murph – That is great news! If ever we needed the FBI protecting our most important civil right in a democracy, it is this year and in this election. That’s a huge relief!
choicelady : Murph – I heard that as well, and from a US Attorney! The FBI knows where it will be Nov. 6, so banks better watch their OWN doors.
bito : From him, AdLib
kesmarn : Thank you , Mr. Rich Baska! By way of b’ito!
AdLib : Cool Bito! Was that to Rich Baska or from him?
choicelady : KT -that’s why I said over at The People’s View that one way to look at GOP gazillions being spent is that it would deprive them of more bling, of more houses they don’t recall they own, of vacationing at places where they exploit indigenous populations. And then they will lose anyway. So it’s a good way to think about what they’re doing in a more positive light – and they ARE creating jobs among printers, writers, TV ad salespeople – you know, the Little People.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…one of the attorneys we are working with in regard to the True the Vote Issue claims that the FBI is planning to have its largest field operating on an election day wsince the days of the Civil Rights Movement.
SallyT : Most big businesses start out as small ones and with little money. They grow into big businesses with good decisions and hard working employees.
kesmarn : I think some of them honestly believe that Romney will have a list of people who voted for him and they will be handsomely rewarded for their vote. Ha! Even if that list existed, it would be in the binder labeled “suckers.”
AdLib : Kes – Exactly! Ever had your Medicare turned into a voucher by a poor man? Ever had your nation’s economy and credit rating destroyed by a poor man?
bito : Rich Baska @BlueTrooth This planet is awesome, btw. Stop by and join @PlanetPOV «link» #p2 #tlot
choicelady : Sally – fighting for one’s life and that of others is what middle class smart people do. Thee weren’t many of those on the Titanic.
KillgoreTrout : Ad, it’s even more ridiculous that they think big business owners are going to spend any extra tax dividends on job creation.
choicelady : ADLib – thankyou! We try!
choicelady : ADLib – the choice isn’t rich man, poor man but George Baily v. Mr. Potter. We have choices we can make. The OTHER choice is setting up businesses for oneself and one’s allies and peers. Cooperative ownership and management.
kesmarn : Yes, AdLib, ever been foreclosed on by a poor man? Ever lost your pension to a welfare recipient?
AdLib : CL – You and your org rock! Great work you’re doing!
SallyT : CL, I am sure we wouldn’t be in first class as I only have flown first class if someone else bought the ticket. But, I know this, we wouldn’t go down without a fight to stay afloat!
KillgoreTrout : I think Michelle is one tough lady!
AdLib : Kes – That’s a cliche BS meme for Repubs, “Ever get a job from a poor man?” Such moronic reasoning. How about, “Ever been fired or laid off by a poor man?”
choicelady : Sally – you and your husband would probably have been in steerage! But I bet YOU would have broken out, seized the boats, and gotten off. Problem was – too few boats for that many people. The dice were tossed, and too many lost.
kesmarn : I agree, KT. You don’t hear Michelle speculating like that.
KillgoreTrout : kes, that was my thought too. Is that a promise? I think it’s sort of telling that Ann made that statement. As if she knows her husband is going to lose.
SallyT : I thought that was funny, AdLib. Knew you would, too.
choicelady : Sally – the capacity to figure out how to take care of yourself is NOT something pampered people know how to do.
AdLib : Sally – I know that scene well! Very funny pick, props to Maher on that one.
choicelady : Anyone – is “women in binders” any different from “the bachelor”? All of the women compete for this guy’s affection, and does any one of the women say – yuck. NOT for me, I’m outta here? NO! He is perfect. They are judged.
kesmarn : Well, Ann says that if she and Mitt lose this one, there will never be another. Promises, promises…
SallyT : CL, I saw the movie. My husband and I always say, “Why weren’t they strapping those deck chairs together. Hell, I would have been building something out of all that stuff to float on!”
choicelady : KT – women as property means they, the men, have power and never have to defer to a woman in any way, not even in kindness.
KQµårk 死神 : Sabreen I saw that poll too and again it had a much larger Republican sample than the previous poll.
AdLib : Murph – Which is why Obama is heavily lawyered up for the election. He knows they will try every dirty trick they can because the Repubs is a shrinking party as minorities overtake old, white racists. I think he’s prepared to take them on.
choicelady : SAlly – all the people in steerage were LOCKED IN and drowned with no way to save themselves. I find that so horrific I can barely think about it!
KillgoreTrout : CL! Why do male chauvinists always want women to binded in some way?
choicelady : kes – I could NOT watch it since I knew how it ended!
AdLib : Hey Sally!
choicelady : KT – the idea of being trapped in a 3-ring binder gives me the willies. Those rings HURT!
AdLib : Sabreen – The preponderance of polls I’ve seen on foreign policy show Obama far ahead of Romney. Don’t know where the poll you mentioned comes from but it doesn’t seem to be in line with what we’ve seen. There is nothing that Romney has offered on foreign policy so it just doesn’t make sense.
KillgoreTrout : Nice alliteration!
SallyT : The rich got the lifeboats on the Titanic
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ- yeah war…in this case Total War…all the money, all the lies, all the voter manipulation, all the voter suppression, because there may not be a next time….
choicelady : KQ – VERY nicely said! Pragmatism preserves principles.
kesmarn : c’lady, I could hardly watch Titanic…especi ally since we all know how it ended.
choicelady : Thank you AdLib! We ARE weighing in on ballot measures. We are doing a full court press on Prop. 39 to get the word out that this manifests our values on tax justice, environment, and good jobs for those without skill – entry level training opportunities. We hope to mobilize a LOT of people in the next 17 days!
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sally, nothin like a binder full of wimmin!
AdLib : KQ – But CO does have a bigger Latino population that’s growing. I do think that is what will push Obama over the top in CO.
kesmarn : NPR had a reporter at a Florida event called Bike-tober — all white males and gave a report from there. Hooo-boy… These boys should wear their helmets. One guy: “I’m voting for Romney because rich guys give people jobs! You ever get a job from a guy who’s broke? A guy on welfare?” Gasp.
choicelady : kes – I may be the only person who did not ever see Titanic, the movie – it totaly creeps me out. As fact or metaphor the thought of being rendered utterly helpless thanks to someone ELSE’s stupidity is more than I can bear. It’s one of several reasons I am NOT a good airline passenger! Control freak or not, that’s a part of my make up.
KQµårk 死神 : Surf the GOP understands that elections are wars. But like CL said some progressives think elections are times when principles trump winning. What they don’t get that in the real world if you don’t win, your principles will never be satisfied either.
AdLib : CL – Which is why I believe so strongly in what you and your organization are doing! We need a counterweight that’s very visible, against the Religious Right. And by acting ethically and NOT using the pulpit to push political marching orders on those who follow a religion, you and your group sets the example that religious people of conscience should indeed feel free to speak out on the issues in the appropriate venues…which don’t include the pulpit.
SallyT : Tonight on Real Time they found this old clip of Romney which shows his attitude towards woman. (Note: Joseph Cotton is Romney) «link»
kesmarn : Like the Titanic metaphor.
choicelady : AdLib – that’s a REALLY good analogy! Blub blub…
kesmarn : Hey, Sally!
KQµårk 死神 : Oh absolutely AdLib and that’s why I made the suggestion he should have two sets of polls he uses for his models. Actually he does a disservice to himself when he treats polls like Gallup the same because then his analysis doesn’t look like it jives with use of average polls.
choicelady : Hey Sally!
choicelady : KT – I know those studies. It’s sad because the RW are actually very much in the minority, and mainline Protestants do NOT do this. They are respectful of their diversity and their legal obligations.
AdLib : CL – That is a minority of Dems, these Emo=Progs, who want ROmney to win so that once he proves that he will destroy America, Americans will turn to Progressive Dems. Idiots. It’s like being on the Titanic and hoping it hits an iceberg because then people will know not to take ships when they want to cross the ocean. Er…we’re all on that ship, if it sinks, we all go down with it, Emo-Prog nutjobs! Who cares if our last words are, “We should have elected a Progressive!” as we drown? Idiots.
Sabreen60 : Hi Sally!
MurphTheSurf3 : JUST GOT THIS E MAIL- A long time friend and even longer time political activists. “Murph, buddy…understa nd this. The GOP is going all in, going for broke, laying it all on the table…there is nothing they will not try or do…why? The demographics are working so against them, they know it is now or never.”
kesmarn : Yeah, if it’s just the fact that a church building is being used as meeting space…I’m not too concerned about that.
SallyT : Howdy all!
choicelady : kes – you can advocate for NON partisan issues even from the pulpit but we are forbidden from doing a damned thing that is partisan. NONE. Churches can do NON partisan advocacy so long as they do not expend more than 5% of their total income. And most do not even come close. But I am sick of the partisan politicking without consequence since our folks are careful and honorable and the Right is NOT.
KillgoreTrout : They reported that especially those people who arEven young republicans are being turned off by all the religion in politics today.
Sabreen60 : AdLib, I don’t know about the undecided, but my hubby has on Spitzer and he said the polls have narrowed on foreign policy from PBO ahead by 15 pts in Sept to 4 pts now. He blamed it on Libya. I am so sorry I heard that. Personally, I pay very little attention to all the different polls.
KillgoreTrout : CL, there was an article on the Daily Beast today, reporting that a lot of people are being turned off of religion due to the GOP’s ever increasing use of it in their political philosophy and tactics.
choicelady : kes – I agree that church needs to lose its tax exemption. Reich though stood in one of OUR churches and advocated for Obama and Dems (after trashing them)which made me cringe. Only OK part – it was a community, not religious, meeting.
KQµårk 死神 : CL fortunately I think that insane kind of progressive group think only happens in deep blue states. In battleground states progressives are much more pragmatic and know what a Romney presidency means for them. In fact I think at least 80% of Romney’s whole bump was in Red States which won’t mean anything to him. I said all along I just don’t see Obama winning FL again. They are just fickle that way and VA will come around unlike NC. The only state I worry that has those kind of progressives that’s a battleground CL is CO which does not have a blue collar tradition of Dems.
kesmarn : Yes, c’lady. Lots of groups put out statements or guides, but this guy has been saying this right from the pulpit, and she finally snapped. She feels really upset about it — has lots of friends in that church.
AdLib : KQ – I do think that generally speaking, Silver’s model is effective. The Gallup/outlier issue should be raised as a flaw in his model’s degree of accuracy but as you say, for the most part, it’s more reliable than most of what’s out there.
choicelady : kes – they are deluded in believing they can fix everything. Went to hear Robert Reich Wednesday – he was the same. Obama failed to do (fill in the blank about what he cannot do since it’s a democracy) so maybe we have to crank it up and MAKE him do what we want. I left. They are without a shred of understanding about how gov’t or democracy work. OR the lack of progressive BASE.
AdLib : CL – The thing is, the undecided voters don’t care at all about Benghazi so as much as the Repubs think they have a “gotcha” scandal against Obama, it’s irrelevant to the election. And of course, it’s total BS. There is no there, there. So it took a few weeks to sort through what really happened…then that was announced…that ‘s a scandal? It never happens that early reports about an event are wrong and later need to be corrected?
choicelady : kes and AdLib – the spillover effect of the “Politics in the Pulpit” is secular belief that we are ALL doing that. I get emails from people saying our NON partisan ballot guide violates the separation of church and state. It does NOT. We are incredibly careful. Nothing says we cannot come FROM faith and moral grounds to argue about the values of democracy. We are very clear we do not IMPOSE our values ON democracy. But the Right has poisoned the wells.
kesmarn : c’lady, that really worked well after Dubya brought the whole house of cards down, didn’t it? How much worse do EmoProgs want it to get?
kesmarn : That church needs to lose its tax exempt status as of yesterday, AdLib.
KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely CL but remember how whackadoodle these people are. 63% of them still believe Iraq had WMD.
choicelady : I’ve started hearing a few EmoProgs say it would be good to have Romney win and “show America” then grab our progressive chance to “fix it”. Oh? We can’t even co-exist in the same room. We’re gonna fix the system? If it collapses, the devastation will last past the lifetime of several of us here. I can’t bear the thought.
AdLib : Kes – That is so disappointing, this corruption of churches into becoming petty political machines. Really? Jesus is a Republican? How does that make any sense at all?
kesmarn : c’lady, Romney et al really need to stop listening to Limbaugh. This garbage comes right from him.
KQµårk 死神 : I think Nate does a good job and his estimates of Obama winning are spot on. It’s not like he ever put Obama’s chances under 60% even at the height of Romney’s bump. I wouldn’t actually worry about how he reports his poll numbers too much because in the end he comes up with the best predictive model going.
choicelady : kes – Benghazi is the ONLY thing they have they think is a “gotcha”. It was horrible. Glen Doherty was one of the Advisory Committee members for Military Religious Freedom Foundation, so we who work with MRFF feel this a lot. To hear Romney pretend he met Glen – he did NOT – was disgusting and then to use Glen’s horrid death as a “gotcha” for Obama was sickening. But they THINK Obama screwed up in a coverup. As with Fast and Furious they make up facts then rant over the lies rather than the truth. And Romnesia got screwed for doing that. And will again since he CANNOT let go. Like the “apology tour”. THAT will come up again, too.
AdLib : Bito – And I was looking to soak up your insights!
AdLib : Cl – That’s great news! Unfortunately, this is what it’s come to in elections now. Rampant attempts at fraud and voter suppression. We need a new civil rights movement to outlaw nationally voter suppression, open up early voting, restrict voter intimidation and get rid of Citizens United. One would hope a majority of Americans could come together over rescuing our democracy.
kesmarn : Good friend of mine walked out of Mass last Sunday in the middle of the sermon, after she was told for the 3rd week in a row how to vote.
choicelady : bito – lurk all you like, but it’s always lovely to hear from you when you feel like it.
KQµårk 死神 : Gotcha AdLib.
choicelady : ADLib – one of my friends, an attorney, is trained and heded for Reno to watch their polls. I’m SO proud of her! She is absolutely beautiful, and I imagine someone would assume she’s a pushover. NOT!!!
AdLib : Sorry KQ, meant DK, not TPM!
kesmarn : So good to see you here, b’ito. I’m as baffled as you as to what the Repubs have their knickers in a knot over with this Benghazi thing.
Sabreen60 : Here’s an earlier article that Deaniac wrote about Nate. Seems Nate doesn’t get close races right too often. Personally, I thought Nate did a better job when he was independent, but since working for NYT he seems somewhat bias to me. «link»
KQµårk 死神 : Well TPM includes both Gallup and Rasmussen. It’s DailyKOS that shows two polls. The problem with KOS is they don’t show polls on a daily basis. Right now the TPM numbers are being hugely skewed by Gallup numbers which are also a SEVEN day average so it includes many days before the debate.
bito : Hey All, just sorta of lurking tonight, soaking up all the knowledge and intellect!
AdLib : I know that Obama has a squadron of lawyers ready for the election, knowing how much fraud the Repubs are capable of and depending on. Gore gave up too soon, Kerry bowed out too early even though he had actually won OH and the Presidency. Obama better hang in doggedly if the Repubs try to steal this election too.
kesmarn : c’lady, the poll workers respected Republican voting rights much more than the Repubs respected theirs (this was an AA woman who asked me to fold the card I was carrying). More power to ‘em. Literally.
AdLib : KQ – Aha! SO that’s why TPM seems to have more sensible numbers!
choicelady : kes – as funny as that was, good on the poll watchers! You are hardly trying to influence anyone, but it means they’re keeping a tight rein on things.
Sabreen60 : Hi bito!
kesmarn : I thought that was cute, AdLib.
AdLib : Hey Bito! Funny stuff!
kesmarn : c’lady, right. The rules really need to be followed. As I mentioned last week, our poll workers were so vigilant that they asked me to fold up my “cheat sheet” until I was actually in the booth. No influencing others!
AdLib : Kes – I like that FTD!
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib that’s what DailyKOS does when it reports their numbers. I wish they had a permanent poll average like TPM and Nate does but when they show their poll of polls they list them with and without Rasmussen and Gallup.
choicelady : bito – great to see you here!
choicelady : bito – that’s TOO funny!
AdLib : Sabreen – Just glad they’ve found the discarded forms and arrested this scum. Prosecutions and harsh sentences are badly needed to stem this Repub fraud.
choicelady : kes – I don’t either. I actually go to the polls and VOTE. I love doing it. I chide the idiots running them who wave my ballot around. I got them to stop and let US put our ballots (long card stock) into the machines. What point is a “privacy” cover if they take them out and wave the ballots around for anyone to see? I don’t care personally, but I take voting privacy as a NON negotiable aspect of voting.
kesmarn : b’ito, someone joked earlier in the day that Romnesia is an FTD. “FOX transmitted disease.
kesmarn : My sister called the BofE and they claimed it had arrived. She mailed my father’s the same day so that would be 2 Obama votes dangling by a chad.
bito : Jodi Jacobson @jljacobson RT @Joy__Hart: RT @P0TUS: BREAKING: Centers for Disease Control orders @FoxNews quarantined to control outbreak of #Romnesia. / hahaha
AdLib : KQ – Appreciate your insights on the outliers and including them. I do like the idea of two sets of numbers, those without and those with outliers, would give a better informed view.
kesmarn : I never do mail-in, c’lady, so I’m not familiar with the Ohio system on that.
choicelady : kes – sorry did not finish. That is disgusting. I hope your sister’s ballot got officially MAILED.
choicelady : kes – I think CA requires two stamps and, I think, it SAYS so on the envelope.
kesmarn : When my sister went to the post office to mail her absentee ballot, they told her the cost would be $1.10. Later on the news they said it costs $1.40 to mail a ballot. She was furious.
AdLib : CL – Yes, Bito recognized jeffersonobama as a solid blogger/Tweeter and I too retweet many of his tweets (and converse with him via Twitter occasionally. He’s on top of polls and does as good a job on that as anyone in the MSM for my money.
choicelady : KQ – that makes sense to me. I’m not wise in statistics, but those principles are, it seems to me, basic.
choicelady : Sabreen – yikes. This is beyond appalling.
kesmarn : Oh, groan! Sabreen, that’s really awful.
KQµårk 死神 : As someone who has worked a bunch with statistics I understand why Nate keeps outliers in but if he was truly scientific he would report two numbers one with all the figures and one without outliers. One thing you have to realize is even with outlier testing like f and t tests what we see as an outlier is still within the noise of the data. Frankly I would not include any poll that does not reveal at least a basic understanding of their sampling methodology so Gallup would be out from the get go.
Sabreen60 : Repub dirty tricks in VA. I don’t know why the guys running this company aren’t in jail. They keep changing the company’s name, but this is just ridiculous. «link»
AdLib : Murph – Well, as you know, Screw the Vote…er, True the Vote has nothing to do about preventing fraud…unless one defines voting for Obama fraudulent.
choicelady : kes – it’s better than my weird fondness for police detectives. I’ve loved all the guys I’ve worked with. Of course they’ve always been on MY side! Makes quite a lot of difference.
kesmarn : c’lady, I must confess I’ve always had a weakness for nerds and engineers. I just love them.
AdLib : No worries Kes!
choicelady : kes – I think it’s incredibly funny that the NYT has cleaned Silver up – and he STILL looks like a nerd. You can put the man into a suit…
AdLib : KQ – That makes a lot of sense! And as you say, the early voting in swing states makes polls in those states necessarily inaccurate because a poll showing a tie on election day, with a majority of early voting favoring Obama, is not a tie at all.
choicelady : AdLib – on Twitter I like “jeffersonobama ” who seems pretty consistent and accurate. And I gather he’s no pro – just smart.
kesmarn : I did enjoy Silver’s interview on the Daily Show. Funny.
AdLib : Sabreen – Deaniac does a great job and is right on the money. Silver gets blinded by his loyalty to his system but he is generally closer to reality than most out there. Still, his rolling outlier polls into his system is a flawed aspect.
kesmarn : The BofE made light of it, saying the electronic record was accurately transmitted and the votes were counted…
KQµårk 死神 : Agreed AdLib. The more the RW politicizes Libya the more people remember Republican failures in foreign policy like 911 and Iraq.
choicelady : kes!!!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!
choicelady : Sabreen – I know YOU would know! The others don’t so much. It’s getting more relaxed for me over there, but some sites I’m not really comfortable revealing much about who I am.
kesmarn : Oh yes, c’lady! It was the printed out voting record of several machines!
choicelady : kes – was there anything ON those rolls of paper? That’s as creepy as that registrar in WI who kept the vote on her unsecured personal computer and kept “finding” votes for days after the election.
Sabreen60 : CL, you are not exactly as mysterious as you may think. I read your comments and your writing style and intellect is very recognizable to me.
AdLib : Murph – Not to diminish how terrible the Benghazi attack was but really, the low info voters don’t care about it and don’t understand it. This may be an issue for the RW to stir their base but it’s irrelevant to the indie/low info voters.
kesmarn : Yes, AdLib, definitely a paper trail. Now — disclaimer — a few years ago several rolls of the paper trail were found in a dumpster the day after the election…
choicelady : Oh wow Murph – to have people suddenly “get” who is obstructing their interests is FANTASTIC. Good for you on True the Vote! I’m up to my neck in CA propositions, but I intend to work the phones etc. on election day. I’m as exhausted as you already – where you find time for this is a miracle.
kesmarn : Murph, I wish True the Vote would concern itself with the REAL fraud that’s going on, but since they’re part of it….
AdLib : Kes – That’s very good to hear, so there is a paper trail on the OH voting machines?
kesmarn : AdLib, a huge amount of Ohio voting is on electronic machines. ALL the early voting in my county is.
AdLib : CL – I stand corrected, Right Field it is!
MurphTheSurf3 : Kes and Choice….I am on the spearhead of a group taking on True the Vote here….there is a lot of anger re. corporate policy, the lack of a farm bill and Monsanto in my neck of the woods and the understanding is dawning that this is all GOP rooted. Suddenly True is worried about Fraud in my backyard.
choicelady : Sabreen – Deaniac is one of the most consistently accurate interpreters of minute details. I appreciated that analysis. I see you over there and elsewhere. I go under a couple of handles, but I always know it’s you.
AdLib : Sabreen – That is of great concern. Do we know how much of OH voting is on these machines?
KillgoreTrout : The GOPers are just trying their damnedest to use the embassy attacks to paint Obama as weak on terroris, With Obama’s record, the GOPers haven’t a chance of succeeding with that line of attack.
kesmarn : Hey, AdLib — sorry for the delay in replying. I was typing madly.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib one last note on the polls. I noticed when they did show the samples that all of a sudden the Repug samples jumped higher than Dem samples even for the PPP polls. I think when Dems got down they just didn’t answer their phones at higher rates but that doesn’t mean Dems won’t vote for Obama in fact early voting results show Obama way ahead in most states.
choicelady : kes – WAY TO GO!!! That is my experience, and I’d expect nothing less.
Sabreen60 : Deaniac over at TPV have taken Nate Silver to the woodshed more than a couple of times. Here’s one article. If you have the time and the inclination read the other articles re polls. «link»
kesmarn : c’lady the black community here has gotten extremely involved on the Board of Elections. At least half the staff at the down town polling place — and in my local one — are black, and they are not letting anything interfere with the process!
choicelady : Allow me to interject that yes, I now think it was a terrorist attack but I ALSO think it was kicked off by the video. The two things are NOT mutually exclusive.
KillgoreTrout : Obama explained it pretty well on TDS last night.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…the info on the attack on Benghazi is really complicated. Obama needs to explain conflicting narrative in a way most will understand.
choicelady : Ooops – Sally left. Hope she comes back!
AdLib : Hi Sabreen!
AdLib : Hey Kes!
choicelady : kes – that’s very good to know. I heard Black churches and civic groups are doing their very best to tutor voters on what to look for. If people think Black people are stupid and gullible, they are people who never set foot in a Black community meeting. NO WAY are they victims!
AdLib : KT – Romney will have a very rehearsed attack on Obama about the attack in Libya but Obama will be prepared for it. And hell ya, we sure better hear about Bin Laden, Gaddafi, Al Qaeda leaders, etc. being taken down under his Presidency. And I think we will hear about Romney having no answers or solutions for Iran or Afghanistan despite his whining.
KillgoreTrout : Our Portland correspondent is here?
KQµårk 死神 : Even Rasmussen has it back to a tie AdLib. Remember the same time after the first debate they had Obama up by 5. You are right they were far off in 2010 and 2008 as well by 5+ points.
choicelady : Sally’s here!
kesmarn : And for what it’s worth, the current machines have a window with a very visible printed version of your vote that you can check for accuracy before hitting the “go” button.
choicelady : ADLib – uhhhh wouldn’t that be “when one poll is out in RIGHT field…”???? : )
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen, what’s up?
choicelady : kes – it is my profound hope that the majority of Black and Dem voters will already have voted by the time the machines kick into high gear.
AdLib : CL – Gallup serves the RW nowadays and is once again damaging their credibility in order to manipulate perceptions. They won’t release their sampling formula but were way off in 2010, doubling the true margin and being incredibly wrong again and again. As most are saying, when one poll is out in left field, leave it there and forget it, go with a preponderance of polls that are consistent and don’t swing wildly from day to day.
kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen! I saw that article on the Romney investment in the voting machines. Hardly ethical. But this seems to go way back here. The previous Repub Sec of State was invested in Diebold voting machines!
KQµårk 死神 : Couldn’t have said it better AdLib. Of course after the debate a few conservative pundit jumped right on the angry black man card.
KillgoreTrout : Romney doesn’t stand a chance in this next debate. He is terrible at diplomacy and surely will play the cowboy diplomacy of the neo-cons. They haven’t really gone away.
choicelady : Sabreen – hi. I will look. It IS worrisome, isn’t it? What the HELL is going on with the Sec’y of State in Ohio cutting back early voting HOURS, too?
AdLib : KQ – What if someone publicly said they wanted to punch Tagg or Mitt for their BS? What if an Obama relative said something like that? Wouldn’t it be a firestorm? Great country we live in where white people can openly brag about wanting to punch the black President in the face but if the black President’s relatives did the same, they’d be called angry racists and anti-American terrorists.
Sabreen60 : Hi folks. Love “Romnesia”. I watched the speech on C-SPAN and PBO was on fire. Now…I need someone to talk me off the ledge. I am somewhat – no – actually very worried about the voting machines, especially in Ohio and this is why: «link»
choicelady : kes – I agree! Rain is FINALLY moving in here this coming week. I have the sweaters and cords ready, and we can still build fires. It’s not spare the air time yet.
kesmarn : A little drizzly today, c’lady, but I like rainy days.
choicelady : kes! How are you? Saw it was raining on folks in Y’town. How’s your weather?
kesmarn : Hey, KT, c’lady and all the rest of the Planetary stars up there!
choicelady : KT – after the Libya debacle wait for more over the top lies, badgering, bullying. He cannot give up the frenzied Tasmanian Devil act.
AdLib : Murph – The key though is that the Romney “bump” is dead and numbers are receding back to Obama. When you’re ahead in the swing states, that’s all you need. And Romney’s bump was based on a phony persona that has been deteriorating since then. It wasn’t sustainable, he is going down.
KillgoreTrout : Hey Bito and Kes!
KillgoreTrout : Ad, especially because this one will be about foreign policy. Romney is doomed.
KQµårk 死神 : I’m just saying that’s what KO needs to do to come back. Whether he’s capable of that I’m really not too hopeful.
choicelady : foodchain is here as well as Sabreen! Good crowd tonight.
AdLib : KT – I love watching the replays and Obama biding his time with, “Proceed Governor”. Romney did indeed hang himself on that, on “binders full of women” and other BS. He clearly lost and will again this upcoming week.
choicelady : Hey – bito and kes are in the house! Hi!
KQµårk 死神 : Surf and AdLib you are both right in some respects. For one it’s too early for the bump from the second debate but like Murph said allot of people were just waiting for an excuse to choose Romney. I made that argument way back AdLib.
KillgoreTrout : I like what Tagg’s brother said about it. He said if Obama knew how Tagg punched, Obama would have nothing to worry about.
choicelady : ADLib – I have stopped paying any attention to polls. Nate is not always good, but his large picture stuff was great today. Gallup has swings that cannot be real, so we can’t take what they say as fact. We just have to have the ground game EVEN in CA.
AdLib : KQ – I don’t know if someone with KO’s ego issues can be self-critical enough to see that his “perfectionism ” is selfishness. And he’s burned many who once liked him, including me.
KillgoreTrout : I totally agree Murph. Even when Romney got his “bump,” Obama still had a slim lead. That’s the thing about “bumps,” sooner or later the swelling goes down.
AdLib : CL – And the third debate will be a replay of the second debate most likely. Romney bullying and lying, Obama tactical, standing up to Romney and pressing on his competency and successes. The Romney bounce is subsiding and Obama remains ahead in the key swing states. We have to keep working hard but Obama will be re-elected if we do.
KQµårk 死神 : How do you like big ole bad Tagg saying he wants to punch the C-in-C while he skipped serving in his era.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…Obama did well and has had a very small, almost miniscule bump….why? My theory is that Mitt’s bump was created by those who were looking for some excuse to shift in his direction (beside their “real” reasons) and thus the bump was a good one. For Obama, his people have been his for a while. There aren’t that many left for him. Driving me crazy.
choicelady : Murph! Mine was out of hand but still incredibly valuable. Sociology but historical in grounding, looking at the legal and social transitions from colonial to early federal economies. It has informed every other thing I ever did. What was yours? Congrats on finishing – it DOES matter. I get to be adjunct, never the bride!
KillgoreTrout : Romney acted like someone just hit him with a shovel when Obama told him “proceed governor!” Obama gave him the rope and Romney promptly hung himself with it.
KQµårk 死神 : Exactly and Bain got plenty of government bailouts in the 90’s as well.
AdLib : KT – Right with you on that. Network and Face in the Crowd are two of the best films about the corrupt nature of the media and those behind the smiling faces.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib in the end KO needs to do allot of soul search because he met the simple common denominator rule with interpersonal behavior. It can’t be that EVERYONE he worked with was the problem, the real answer was HE was the problem.
choicelady : AdLib – OBAMA IS GREAT!!! I lovelovelove the Rose Garden Revelations. Kes found and posted what we could not see that night – the sheer fury and disgust on Romnesia’s face. Priceless.
AdLib : KQ – How about the $1.5 billion in a taxpayer handout to Romney to “save” the Olympics? Don’t know why that fact is hardly ever discussed about Romney and his anti-government BS.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL- you weighed in on a diss….? So did I. Got mine done. No idea what it proved or what value it had because giving me a certificate to practice doing history.
KillgoreTrout : Another very prescient film that I love (as Ad knows) is Network. Man, that film was right on the money.
choicelady : ADLib – ahhh that all comes back on Keith O. Too bad really. When he was good he was amazing. When he was bad…
choicelady : Murph – feel free! It’s what I used to say about the sources for my dissertation research. It’s largely why it never got written.
MurphTheSurf3 : Hey KT…..gotta laugh…in the widget.
KQµårk 死神 : Romney is cheap about everything but getting bailout money like the autobailout he got. What I don’t understand is how people don’t see Romney as being the same as Bush on the budget deficit. He has no intention of paying for his tax cuts and increase in defense spending. But just because he’s got a ‘R’ next to his name he’s fiscally conservative.
KillgoreTrout : That’s so true CL. I never ceases to amaze me at just how low some of these RWers can go. It shouldn’t but it does.
AdLib : Well, did Obama deliver in the second debate or what?
AdLib : CL – Olbermann threw and egotistical temper tantrum at Current because they weren’t throwing around money like MSNBC and had technical shortcomings so he quit/was fired. Even his supporters seem to have had it with his temperamental attitude.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL Great Line: Most of us one time or another have toiled for the ore of very low yield. I will use it.
choicelady : KT – it’s shocking how all the warnings about tyrants we’ve had and we still can find a new low in people such as Beck.
KillgoreTrout : Murph is in the house, or should I say widget?
choicelady : AdLib – yes, I always thought it held up well. It’s very good and still remains very creepy.
AdLib : Murph – Good for you! We support those who make up our team, even if as individuals we wouldn’t have them at the top of our list.
choicelady : Murph – most of us one time or another have toiled for the ore of very low yield. At least she’s better than some of the CA Blue Dogs I’ve known. Glenn Anderson comes to mind – a man so mingy that his “breakfast meetings” involved teeny little faux sweet rolls and about 4 ounces of orange juice. That’s freaking cheap-o. And his policies sucked, too.
KillgoreTrout : CL, I have heard that too and think that’s correct. Until Glenn Beck showed up.
AdLib : CL – Absolutely, Arthur Godfrey had to be the initial inspiration for Face in the Crowd but its insightful and prescient look into tv and politics was very original and remains impressive.
MurphTheSurf3 : Well I am here…how long? Who knows. Maybe you folks will wake me up…..A day in the campaign trenches for Claire, someone I do not “love.” But she has the right initial behind her name…”D” so for now she is “my baby.”
choicelady : AdLib – is he off Current? I’ve lost track since I don’t get that.
AdLib : Which reminds me, wonder what Keith Olbermann is doing for a living nowadays after self-destructing ?
KillgoreTrout : CL, no, not at all. He did ask some straight, no nonsense questions. I commend him for that. I think Obama may have been just a bit miffed about questions concerning the attack in Libya. He did reall y show it much, but I could tell he’s tired of dealing with those questions.
choicelady : AdLib – I like that film. My mother thought it was an expose of Arthur Godfrey. Do you think so?
AdLib : Lonesome Mitt Rhodes.
choicelady : KT – well thank you, but I think I’m pretty westernized, grounded, lacking flights of fancy. I AM pretty appreciative of those who do have that ability to soar. I’m a GREAT audience!
AdLib : BTW, Face in the Crowd is on TCM right now, one of my favorites!
AdLib : Can I say how flattered I am that the Obama team reads The Planet and follows our lead on applying new medical conditions to the dysfunctional types out there in the political arena?
choicelady : ADLib – ooooh I do NOT want Ryanausea!
choicelady : KT – Nope. Missed it. My husband did though and thought it was great. I head Stewart got fairly testy on Libya though, is that right?
KillgoreTrout : Why thanks CL. I don’t think you lack imagination.
AdLib : Hey KQ! Yep, Romnesia is a side effect of Ryanausea.
KillgoreTrout : Did you see Obama on TDS last night?
choicelady : Hi back atcha – and don’t forget KQ!
AdLib : Hey HT and CL!
choicelady : KQ – yes indeed, but as Obama said, Obamacare covers pre-existing conditions!
KQµårk 死神 : Hey AdLib we found out stage two of Social Anxiety Disorder is Romnesia.
choicelady : Howdy AdLib if you’re here. And even if you’re not.
choicelady : KT – you’re looking might real to me, but I lack imagination.
KillgoreTrout : Greetings and Hallucinations Ad!
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!