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SueInCa On March - 13 - 2012

Here I am again reminding you all of the dangers this country faces if the Religious Right ever takes power. I recently read a book, The Baptizing of America by Rabbi Jerry Rudin. In his book he states his qualifications to write on the subject then goes in to detail on all the facets of our society these people plan to dominate. As most who have read my writings on this subject know, those areas are Government, Education, Arts and Entertainment, Business, Religion, Family and Media. I have written on this before but in reading the Good Rabbi’s book I realized just how deeply these people could threaten not only our country but the world. Rabbi Rudin got down to the nitty gritty in each area of cultural influence so I decided I would write again and use his book as a template. In the first installment, I will cover Government.

IMHO, Iraq and Afghanistan were “tests” to determine how proselytizing would work in the ME or another country but with the use of a military. What other reason could there be for handing out propaganda to our servicemen and women, using religious media by the Pentagon for White House memos or for turning the Air Force Academy into a religious institution? It is well known these people are out to turn the world to Christ and what better way to do it than with the biggest and strongest military in the world? Can you imagine a despot like Kim Jung Il having our military at his disposal? The damage he could do? The reach of his arm? Well why not the Christocrats(this is the name Rabbi Rudin has assigned to them so I will follow his lead)? We already know Iraq was a war for god, Israel is being courted with Evangelical money, donating buildings and such to curry favor there, why not use the Military as your “missionairies for God”?

Chaplains in the military have seen a decrease in Mainline Christian representation as opposed to Evangelicals in the past decade. While just 3 percent of the military’s enlisted personnel and officers call themselves Southern Baptist, Pentecostal or a member of a denomination that’s part of the National Association of Evangelicals, 33 percent of chaplains in the military are members of one of those groups, according to Pentagon statistics. And the disparity could soon widen. Data from the Air Force indicate that 87 percent of those seeking to become chaplains are enrolled at evangelical divinity schools. If that is not enough to keep you up at night then nothing will. We are seeing situations in Afghanistan right now that would reinforce this school of thought. The burning of Qurans at Bagram Air Force Base, I believe, was not a mistake. And the perceived insults are many: not only troops’ sometimes heavy-handed treatment of ordinary Afghans, or the video that surfaced last month of U.S. Marines urinating on the bodies of Taliban fighters, but also men and women consorting freely in heavily guarded international compounds, or the consumption of alcohol at restaurants with a mainly non-Afghan clientele. And just this weekend a soldier left his base and went on a shooting spree killing 16 Afghans. Any of these incidents by themselves would be bad but in total they point to a serious problem for non-Evangelicals who are serving as well. If I were an Afghani would I know the difference? Most likely not. But instead of training our military in the culture of the country they will be in, the Evangelicals are more worried about Jesus Tracts, Jesus on military hardware and encourgement by some leaders to actively proselytize in country.

“This is not just about relations with the U.S.,” researcher Martine van Bijlert wrote on the website of the Afghanistan Analysts Network in the first days of the Koran-burning protests. “This is part of a wider struggle over what kind of society Afghanistan is becoming, over who the custodians of religious power will be and what they will use it for.”

The Bible initiative in Iraq was handled by former Army chaplain Jim Ammerman, the 83-year-old founder of the Chaplaincy of Full Gospel Churches (CFGC), an organization in charge of endorsing 270 chaplains and chaplain candidates for the armed services. Ammerman worked with an evangelical group based in Arkansas, the International Missions Network Center, to distribute the Bibles through the efforts of his 40 active-duty chaplains in Iraq. A 2003 newsletter for the group said of the effort, “The goal is to establish a wedge for the kingdom of God in the Middle East, directly affecting the Islamic world.” Wedge issues seem to be the favorite of Evangelicals and quite frankly they are gaining in their efforts.

The effort is an example of what critics call a growing culture of militarized Christianity in the armed forces. It is influenced in part by changes in outlook among the various branches’ 2,900 chaplains, who are sworn to serve all soldiers, regardless of religion, with a respectful, religiously pluralistic approach. However, with an estimated two thirds of all current chaplains affiliated with evangelical and Pentecostal denominations, which often prioritize conversion and evangelizing, and a marked decline in chaplains from Catholic and mainstream Protestant churches, this ideal is suffering. According to Mikey Weinstein of the MRFF(Military Religious Freedom Foundation), “The vast majority of chaplains now see the military as a mission field with a lot of low-hanging fruit.” A significant MRFF victory arrived in 2011 when the US Air Force, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request submitted by the Foundation, revised its training course taught to nuclear missile launch officers. The course, defended by a spokesman for the Air Force’s Air Training and Education Command as meant to ““help folks understand why we’re doing what we’re doing. In the missile launch industry, it takes a certain mindset to be able to walk in the door and say, yes, I can do that” included a presentation, Who Are You When No One Is Looking: Five Ethical Principles For Service To The Air Force, which largely revolves around Biblical imagery and scriptural text as well as prominently-featured quotations from the Christian Just War Theory of St. Augustine of Hippo in addition to former Nazi Party member and SS Officer Wernher Von Braun, who is quoted as stating that “We wanted to see the world spared another conflict such as Germany had just been through and we felt that only by surrendering such a weapon (the ballistic missile) to people who are guided by the Bible could such an assurance to the world best be secured.” MRFF client and missile officer training attendee Damon Bosetti recounted to the media that he and his Air Force colleagues would refer to the religious portion of the ethics training course as the “Jesus loves nukes speech”. How much clearer can the Evangelicals make their intentions should they gain the White House again? Nukes in the hands of religious fanatics is never a good thing. Isn’t that precisely what Evangelicals keep telling us about Iran? I doubt if it would be much of a stretch for them to revamp their policies and come up with another false flag operation to justify going to war with another country they feel is not sufficient in their religious practices.

The other piece of their government renovation is city, state and national offices filled with Evangelicals or republicans that are sensitive to their agenda. This has happened all over the country as can be affirmed by the number of wedge issues being taken up by the local, state and national levels. Congressional Republicans or Teapers ran on a platform of jobs jobs jobs. NOT one single jobs bill has made it out of the House but plenty of wedge bills have, mostly targeting women or minorities. In their world women are subservient and minorities just do not count unless they are in alignment with Evangelicals.

And make no mistake their full intention is to change the rules of the road so that they can install a Despot for God in the White House with no term limit. House of Representatives, the Senate and the court systems to boot. What are you currently hearing from Republican candidates with regard to the constitution? From The Nation’s John Nichols:

Embracing a fringe interpretation of Constitutional mandates regarding the scope and character of the federal government, Santorum argues that the judicial branch should be seen as being subservient to the executive and legislative branches because—and Santorum really is serious about this—the section of the Constitution that outlines the plan for a federal judiciary comes after the articles that conceived the presidency and the Congress.

Santorum’s view, which roughly parallels that of Gingrich, represents a radical reinterpretation of the existing power of Congress to create new courts—a necessity in a growing country. It would give members of the House and Senate sweeping authority to police and punish judges who respect the law, as opposed to the demands of political partisans and extreme ideologues.

That, of course, is the whole point of Rick Santorum.

He is not a “constitutional conservative.” And he is certainly not a proponent of the principle, advanced by the founders, that the United States should be governed by the rule of law, not the rule of men. Quite the opposite. For Santorum, it is the rule of men—particularly right-wing evangelical men—that supersedes the rule of law as outlined in the Constitution.

That Constitution has been assaulted all too frequently in recent years by Republican and Democratic presidents. But the battering it would take from Santorum, whose candidacy has been built on a promise to radically rewrite and even more radically reinterpret the document, would be unprecedented.

One thing I have still not figured out is Mitt Romney. While he is a “compliant” candidate, he too has a strong Mormon background and they have their own issues with the constitution that do not mix well with Evangelicals so it is somewhat of a dark horse. Some would ask the question, How would they go about accomplishing a feat like changing our constitution? It is really pretty simple. Look around the country and just think about how many states are currently sponsoring some type of bill designed to erode either minority or women’s rights? Then think about another disastrous election like 2010……that is how it is done. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable regarding these people but when I think of all the years they have had working on their plan I feel like a very small fish swimming in a tank with great white sharks. But I will continue to talk to people. Even if I have reached a small portion of the country it is better than to have remained silent.

I know I do not have to convince most of the readers here however there are still many people in this country who are not sufficiently informed on the issue. I know it is not anywhere near the same thing as the Holocaust however I can still draw parallels to the overall idea. Will they proceed with a systematic killing of Americans? Probably not, but non-believers will certainly not receive the same benefits as believers and will most likely be relegated to the inner cities or rural areas where they can be invisible. Should they have their way most people will shake their heads and ask why? I would not like to be around to tell them exactly why. Truth be told I will probably get out of the country if that happens.

The next segment will cover education. Until then have a great week.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/165371/rising-rick-santorum-would-rewrite-constitution-abolish-courts

Written by SueInCa

I am a soon to be 59 Nana to Anthony who is 11. I live in Benicia CA with my husband and Shih Tsu. I worked in Banking and the Financial Industry for 24 years in Fraud, Risk Management, Account Management, Program Management, Project Management and Customer Service. I was a Fraud Investigator for Credit Card and Merchant Business and investigated internal fraud and responded to Bank robberies. I was also management in most of these positions. Now I am content to find a part time job where I am just a worker bee, no more corporate BS for this gal. I also make jewelry. I can spend hours in a bead shop just touching all the fine baubles. Only another beader would understand that one.

79 Responses so far.

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  1. SallyT says:

    Sherlock, Watson here, with a new article about “The Family”. Not necessarily new information but just reaffirming.

    “It’s a new variation on the idea Abraham Vereide began with in 1935: Win the leadership, win the nation. Only instead of trying to persuade a man like Abacha to come over to its side, the Family is seeking to build the next generation of rulers.”

    http://www.talk2action.org/story/2012/3/16/162019/247/Front_Page/Inhofe_To_Maddow_Never_Heard_of_Uganda_s_quot_Kill_the_Gays_quot_Bill_Author_David_Bahati

    • SueInCa says:

      Watson
      Imhofe is a liar. Bahati is a regular at the National Prayer Breakfast sponsored by Republicans and others in Congress. Had Maddow done her homework she would know that……

    • SueInCa says:

      Thanks Watson I will read this when I get back from the store. Need GRAPES and Chocolate Raspberry coffee

  2. Kalima says:

    Just in case you missed it Sue as I know that you are very busy, here is a story from my updates this morning, and yes I’m up, we just had another quake.

    ———-

    Ugandan Gay Rights Group Sues U.S. Evangelist

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/us/ugandan-gay-rights-group-sues-scott-lively-an-american-evangelist.html?_r=1

    • SueInCa says:

      Thanks Kalima. I had seen the report yesterday on Twitter but did nothave the time to read it. Scott Lively is a hate monger. He has his own Hatewatch to counter the SPLC in Atlanta. Kind of sad really.

      http://www.exposethesplc.blogspot.com/

      • Kalima says:

        Thanks Sue, I could only read a few articles before feeling physically sick. The playing of the “victim” card by these so-called “Christians” was more than enough. I guess you need a really strong stomach for this sort of hate filled propaganda, I don’t seem to have one recently after reading so many lies over and over again. This is not a man of God, nor does he speak for the overwhelming majority of Christians around the world.

  3. kesmarn says:

    You’ve hit another home run with this article, BFF. The only thing worse than a seriously fanaticical religion-addict is an armed one. So the idea that this Dominionist crew have set their sights on taking over the military is, as you’ve said, really frightening.

    Can you imagine how difficult it must be to be a Muslim, atheist, agnostic, non-Santorum Catholic and/or a woman in this military environment? Thank God (literally) for Mikey Weinstein and his group’s work.

    And the way they can justify violence and intolerance in the name of religion is mind-boggling. It recalls the way the KKK of days past could identify as devoutly religious on Sunday morning after having tormented — even lynched — black citizens on Saturday night. Can any person live long with such schizophrenic “values” and not go genuinely crazy?

    I read with interest the discussion here on the motives for the Iraq invasion and I think that Dubya actually was the incarnation of all three major motives: greed (for the oil and the money it meant), lust for power, and religious fanaticism. He seems more and more — in retrospect — to have been the absolute poster boy for Dominionism. Whether he consciously meant to be that or not, I really don’t know.

    I think so often how amazingly fortunate we are to have a sane man in the White House right now. It’s no wonder “they” have such a virulently negative reaction to PBO. He and his allies are such a tremendous obstacle to their ability to accomplish their goals. He infuriates them simply by being a genuinely good man, a man of peace, a man of rationality not fear/anger. It reminds me of what Truman said about the famous “Give ’em hell” comment. “I don’t give ’em hell,” he said, “I just speak the truth and they think it’s hell.”

    Thanks seems too small a word for all you’ve done here, BFF. You’re our very own Planetary Sherlock Holmes and then some!

    • choicelady says:

      I never thought I’d be happy that it turned out W was more lazy than he was religious. Had he kept the zealotry in his heart, he MIGHT have made sure he stayed in power. But his basic character asserted itself -- playboy slacker -- and we got rid of him. Who knew a character flaw would save the world?

      • kesmarn says:

        I totally agree, c’lady. His lethargy (when it came to intellectual work… he could chainsaw brush forever) saved us from utter and total destruction.

        As it was, he managed to “accomplish” a remarkable amount of devastation in only 8 years. It’ll take a lot longer than that to fix it all.

        • choicelady says:

          I think Iraq was entirely his religious mania -- Iraq is “Bablyon” the fall of which presages the Second Coming (among many other things also not coming true…) but his essential stupor and desire to have other people accept ALL the responsibility for his failures actually worked to our advantage. The legacy of his destruction probably can be more properly laid at the feet of Cheney but yes, also his innate shallowness and desire for glory without regard to honor. Witness the flight suited “Mission Accomplished” when his own life was spent AWOL.

          If we could stop rewarding superficiality and end paternal influence in promoting unfit kids into positions of power, the world would be a safer place. I have a whole, long list of sons whose daddies got them into places they were unqualified to inhabit. Every one of ’em screwed up the world more than was absolutely necessary.

    • SueInCa says:

      I told you you would not disappoint and you did not BFF. Bush was most likely all three as you say. I don’t doubt his religious awakening but I do doubt his deep understanding of what he was actually doing and the people he was mixing it up with. I think of it kind of like an addict who does not really truly believe the new friends he is supposed to hang out with but does so because it is part of his new life or I could be wrong and he is as sinister as I believe as well. That is how he got mixed up with the neo cons in the whole Nation Building thing. I mean really who builds nations by bombing them to hell? But I also think there is something truly evil in these dominionist types so perhaps he was right in character.

      Wait til you hear Education of course another Bush is involved. I swear these people can keep you investigating 24/7. There really is no end to their reach and their absolute evilness.

    • SueInCa says:

      Dr Watson…………come here

      That was an old Lily Tomlin comedy act. She was talking about the telephone of course. You are the bomb. It is addicting isn;t it and Bruce is one of the premier writers on the subject. He did the outting of Palin

      • SallyT says:

        Sue, I remember that…Lily Tomlin that is. I really think we can say that behind that Kony 2012 video are the guys we need to watch out for. Shows how easy you can get taken in without knowing you are. I didn’t know you were already getting information from Bruce’s writings. He seems to cover a lot! I saw on that site the stuff about Palin. I think I need to read more on there! Nothing seems to elementary there, Sherlock.

        • choicelady says:

          I find it fascinating that Dominionists are the folks “outing” Lords Resistance Army. It is entirely self serving since I strongly suspect they abetted him in the first place. Now they’re selling him out because of global human rights groups putting the truth way out there. So if they’re going to push “death to gay” laws, they need to cleanse public attention of the Konys of the world -- and then go on doing what evil THEY are creating hoping we won’t notice. To date, only Rush is now calling LRA and Kony “Christians”. Man -- it’s pitiful when even HE did not get the message.

        • SueInCa says:

          Hey sister you are preaching to the choir here. Bruce and that whole staff are great. They got my husband reading for hours one night and that is not easy.

  4. choicelady says:

    Great expose, Sue! A couple of points -- the forces behind capturing the military really shouldn’t be called “evangelicals” since they actually BASH evangelicals as being “not good enough” Christians. They are, purely and simply, Dominionists. They depart from ALL previous notions of Christianity and thus are not actually Christians at all. The End Times fervor is comparatively new (noting that the Millerites of the 1830s and 40s thought the end was coming, to be sure) and was cranked up only after the 1970s “I Found It” campaign started this new wave.

    THE organization fighting Dominionist take over of the military is the Military Religious Freedom Foundation based in Albuquerque, NM. It was started by Mikey Weinstein, a former Air Force Academy grad and Air Force office and JAG (Judge Advocate General) once assigned to Reagan’s White House staff by the US Air Force. It was the bashing of his son, a Jew also at the Air Force Academy, that started it all. I would strongly urge people to go to the web site: http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org to read the list of things they have STOPPED, including the “Bible sights” -- those rifle sights with Bible verses on them -- and the dominant presence of Franklin Graham and other very extremist Dominionists such as former Gen. Jerry Boykin from being the mandatory attendance features of military events.

    Mikey has a new book, “No Snowflake in an Avalance” that is excellent and well worth reading. It’s about this critically-important issue AND the sacrifices he and his family have made to fight for our Constitution and end the “new Crusades”. The book is available online at the MRFF “Store”. Although none of us wishes to go over to the AOLHP often, MRFF researcher, an absolutely brilliant woman, Chris Rodda, does post there. You have to enter her name to find her stuff (Arianna buries the good things deeply)but she posts some of the most in-depth stories pretty regularly.

    Sue -- this, as you note, is one of the most terrifying aspects of Dominionism. Do we WANT our Air Force personnel with their fingers on the nuclear button being trained that killing for Jesus justifies anything and everything they do? That actually happened -- and MRFF stopped it after 22 of the 26 or so “nuke officers” complained they were being indoctrinated to think that nuclear holocaust was a God-driven good thing.

    Thank you for this rich detail, Sue. This is one other note -- there is reason to be concerned that the Sgt. who massacred the Afghan civilians was, indeed, a Dominionist. Don’t yet know for sure, and it probably will be covered up -- for the sake of reducing the Afghani outrage -- but it may well be the absolute truth. We may never know for sure, but it is in keeping with the self appointed mission of Dominionists. And if so, this is horrific beyond words. A man who would justify slaughering innocents because “Jesus ” (or his chaplain) said it was OK puts the entire US in peril. And that, BTW, is precisely what he wanted to occur.

    Be afraid of these people. Be VERY afraid.

    • SueInCa says:

      Oh and CL I bought the book

      • choicelady says:

        Oh good -- I got to read the galleys so have none of the photos, but I thought it was really good. His appearance here and in LA brought some attention to the book, but it’s not going to set the world on fire unless and until reviewers start taking note of it. And they won’t because they don’t “get it”. So enjoy -- it’s well written (he had help and owns up to it) and very interesting.

    • SueInCa says:

      CL Actually that thought entered my mind about the US Soldier -- Afghan mass murderer……..He will become famous and no military can stop people from researching his background….you know?

      Thanks for the added info to my piece. I could go on writing forever but I try to keep it concise in order to retain interest.

      Hey our friend asked me to blog at her site. I feel honored. I am going to do the first piece on The Constitution Party. With one click I found out it is the GOP party of PA who started the website. I also offered her my investigation assist to help her out with her writing.

    • AdLib says:

      Very eye opening and enlightening, CL, thanks!

      Sue referred to Mikey Weinstein and MRFF but really appreciate the details on his site and book.

      Not sure how we can truly cleanse the Dominionists out of the military, it appears to be a concerted effort to flood the ranks of chaplains as a backdoor way of capturing control over those in the military.

      Mikey and MRFF are doing invaluable and dangerous work, they definitely deserve a higher profile and lots of support.

    • SallyT says:

      Isn’t it strange that killing for Jesus is right and killing for Mohammed is wrong? If those young men can be taught to kill for Mohammed, it is for sure our young men can be taught to kill for Jesus. But, as you say, who are behind these instruction? Will we ever know? Will someone recover from brainwashing? As I said yesterday, this war has gone on too long and these young people have been over there fighting a losing battle. When they come home, they are going to need physical and mental help. We need to have the resources to help these trouble soles. They can be just as dangerous here from their confusion.

      I am afraid of those behind the curtain.

  5. Kalima says:

    Wonderful article Sue, although the subject matter is frightening. The only way to change anything is for people to be made aware of it, and then protest to stop it. As we saw with Limbaugh, if enough people protest, and continue to protest, things can change in a heartbeat. The brainwashing of the military is a scary thing, you only have to look to Nazi Germany to see how devastating it was. Pushing religious beliefs in the military should be treated as highly destructive because these people are payed to carry guns, and have a licence to kill and protect. Religious guidance is a good thing and necessary for those who seek it, one religion’s “proliferation” is dangerous, and surely the military leaders must be aware of it. To let it continue is wrong. To let young soldiers, who are the most vulnerable be subjected to this is unforgivable, and needs to stop.

    • SueInCa says:

      Thanks Kalima
      First of all I hope you are ok. I saw the mention of the quake this morning as we were leaving home. We have had three or four smaller ones here in the past few weeks. They spooked me so I cannot imagine how spooked you all are. Our last one was Loma Prieta in 89 so I bet we are due soon. When we lived in No CA there were no earthquakes in our area.
      I saw your responses on Africa and I am pleased to know the Pope has changed his stance on condoms. The only thing I would say further is I hope he announced it to the country like he did when he advised them not to use them. I swear I don’t have a grudge against the Catholic church it just makes me mad when someone does something so criminally wrong that could sentence people to a needless horrible disease and sure death.

      Check further below. Sally did some great research on KONY and the religious right’s connection to them. I was suspicious of him when Uganda was mentioned but did not have the time to follow up. I have been otherwise distracted.

      • Kalima says:

        Hi Sue, we are ok, but it feels as if we are waiting for the other shoe to drop. It’s inevitable that Tokyo is in for a big one in the next four years, we sit right over a separate fault line, and it’s becoming highly active after last March. Yesterday were twin earthquakes a few hours apart, one in almost the same place as last year, and one in the prefecture next to Tokyo.

        Funnily enough, the connection between Kony and the RR, especially The Family, would come as no big surprise, someone must have been financing him and his lawless group, so why not the crazies in the U.S.

        Hope that things will settle a bit for you and your family soon. In my thoughts and prayers.

  6. SallyT says:

    Sue, great article and informative. I have concerns about the power that these Evangelist and the extremes they will go. Recently I have been looking at this Kony 2012 and the power of this video. Don’t get me wrong, I think this Kony is an evil man but the video is using old facts and figures. When you look at the money behind it and the major contributors it is Evangelical money. And, some are the same people that were supporting the “kill the gays” in that area. Could they be testing the power of the internet, its reach, influence, and money source? I hope there is no concern and I am over questioning here but I do think it needs more looking into.

    http://keepittrill.com/online/2012/03/kony-2012-scam-stop-supporting-invisible-children/

    http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2012/03/11/invisible-children-funded-by-antigay-creationist-christian-right/

    http://www.coscampusonline.com/2012/03/08/kony-2012-scam/

    However, a good article again from you, Sue. I will be watching for the follow ups!

    • SueInCa says:

      Sally

      Great work on this. I was suspicious of KONY but had not had time to do any work on it. I was however able to set my niece straight on the subject. She had jumped on the bandwagon and something did not seem right to me so I just told her what I knew about the rapes in the Congo.

      Thanks for your feedback and great work on the KONY deal. You are an honorary investigator from now on. Did you find it fun? I know I do but sometimes I get real caught up in the extenuating info instead of concentrating on the detail……..I am curious what can I say? My dad used to call me nosy until I started making real good money as an investigator.

      • SallyT says:

        Why Sue, I am honored to be an honorary investigator! Yes, I did find it fun. I was in commercial financing for decades and as you know there is a lot of investigating in finding out if these companies are what they say they are and have all they say they have. Even better was when we called the notes and they tried to hide things from us!
        I didn’t like the look of this guy in the video with his young son and I just had to dig deeper. There is much more coming out on this now.
        Okay Sherlock, Watson here is waiting on our next assignment!

        • SueInCa says:

          LOL Sally I also worked in credit for a bit and worked both sides for Wells Fargo in the 90’s. Risk Management for our division was credit and fraud together so we worked jointly on files.
          They analyzed credit files for my guys and my guys did risk assessment for them. It was a perfect match. I also worked credit card fraud, merchant fraud and bank fraud then at Visa I was the manager for the implementation of the CVV and CVV2 coding on your credit cards. That program took us 5 years to implement. The least fav was bank robberies. They are very challenging to your sense of well being and I was in a constant state of unease. I only did it for 6 months and worked 8 bank robberies.

  7. Nirek says:

    Sue, I’m Christian (former Catholic {ashamed of priests pedophilia and the church cover up}). I also believe in the separation of church and state.

    That out of the way, I am disappointed in the extreme religious folks of any religion. These WARS were started by extremists and continued by the other side (Christians). It is time for sane people to take over the government.

    That is how I feel, how about all of you?

    • SueInCa says:

      Oh and Nirek. I am sure you are not the kind of Christian they claim to be. I know a lot of good Christian folk and none of them act like these people

    • SueInCa says:

      Nirek

      That is why I do what I do. I have never been a supporter or war. Heck I can even find problems with our support of WWII and sometimes that does not make me the most popular person in the room. My feelings have nothing to do with the Holocaust(even tho we were, as usual too little too late) but plenty of other reasons.

      I want everyone to understand these people. Sometimes I get too hyper about them but it bothers me when someone does not even have an open mind to discuss rationally at the very least.

    • AdLib says:

      True about extremists, whether it’s religious extremists, neocon extremists or plutocratic extremists, it’s disastrous to have such types making decisions for a nation.

      I think Obama has been just that kind of calm and reasoned person we need as a national leader. Now if only we can get a majority in Congress to mirror that.

      • SueInCa says:

        Adlib

        I am not a religious person but I pray that everyday. I have never felt the need to pray for any president until President Obama took office. If he can melt my militant attitude toward religion in general, he must be a good man.

      • Nirek says:

        Adlib, yes and no blue dogs to obstruct. The Rs keep saying Obama had a super majority but he didn’t really.

  8. Sue, I believe that the ideas contained in this quote by Hermann Goering, were applied effectively concerning the Iraq invasion;

    “Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

  9. Carmen says:

    Thank you, Sue, for this insightful and informative article. Recently, I received an email from one of my right wing cousins who was all up in arms over some perceived attack on Jesus. The email said military chaplains were forbidden to use the name Jesus anymore.
    It sounds like more bullcrap to me so I just ignored it. At the risk of sounding redundant, I would like to ask, what ever happened to the separation between church and state?

    • SueInCa says:

      Carmen I have to laugh at that question because 1)if you asked your cousin I bet she would have the rightwing talking points all ready and 2)doncha know the RW knows for sure what the Founding Fathers had in mind with the Constitution. That is why it is so easy for them to think they can change the constitution -- back to it’s original intent. If these people were not dangerous, they would be funny.

  10. Very good article Sue. I have to disagree about Iraq being a war for God, at least on our side of the equation. I think we went into Iraq (on false intel) so we could establish military bases as staging grounds for attacks on other areas in the ME, like Iran for instance. It was the rabid neo-cons that were pulling the strings then and neo-cons have long been in favor of pre-emptive strikes, especially in the ME. The neo-cons were just itching to invade Iran, and are still banging the war drums today. I think our actions were about the extension of US military power in the region. I think it was imperialism more than anything else. I feel that any religious association to our actions was just a front that would work to get the support of the rabid religious right. Oh, and the oil too.

    • SueInCa says:

      KT

      I would not argue with you that the benefits they could secure were part of the reason but God was giving them the power to establish permanency in the ME in the one country that was not particularly hostile to Christianity. The Saudis received a lot of grief for letting the US run Operation Desert Storm from their soil. And it is in all the war documentation that floated around in the Bush admin. Gen Clarke had to run all over the ME trying to secure bases on soil there and had to give up a lot to do so. In fact Mubarak told him until we invaded Iraq there were few terrorists in Iraq -- Bush would become responsible for any that started.

      Imperialism is the wet dream of a Christocrat/Dominionist.

      • When bush said that God told him to invade Iraq, I have a hard time believing that bush was being sincere. I think, like many things bush said in his 8 years, was simply to appease his base. But then again, who were his base? A large percentage of Evangelicals. I do see the point you are making and I do believe that these rw religious fanatics should never be allowed to have their way, especially within our government.
        I think reason’s saving grace will be the youth of America. I think young people now are more secular than any generation before them.

        • SueInCa says:

          KT they are way more tolerant as well. I am just a bit leery from the words coming out of OWS as it sounds to me like those kids might be leaning either libertarian and be so disenchanted they do not vote. The problem with the young is always GOTV.

          • Oh I agree Sue. Therein lies the difficulty. Independents and our nation’s youth must be the biggest targets of relaying the dire consequences at stake in this election. I’m not too worried about women and minorities. Maybe some folks who didn’t vote in 2010, have learned their lesson well, concerning complacency. There is so much at stake.

            • Nirek says:

              KT, it is our job to get out the voters this year. I plan to bring older folks to the poles and home again. I also have and will speak to anyone who will listen about the evil of the GOP!

    • AdLib says:

      There is a crossover between some neocons and the Dominionists, those who want to dominate the ME and its oil as part of moving things towards the End of Times.

      Not all but some of them want to horde wealth on Earth until they’re taken up to Heaven…never reasoning out that one precludes the other.

      • I’m sure there were/are some neo-cons that believe in the End Times. But I also believe that bush/cheny and others were more concerned about US expansion of power and the huge profits for companies like Halliburton and others. And they reasoned that having a military staging area in Iraq was key to their future plans. I really don’t see bush/cheny, Rumsfeld and others as being genuinely religious at all, though they weren’t above using religion as their motivation.

        • SueInCa says:

          Kt there is nothing more scary than a religious zealot. And Bush was and is a zealot

          • I have a hard time believing that bush truly cares about religion, despite what he might say. I believe this because he is such a confirmed liar. I have a hard time believing anything he says or has said.

            • SueInCa says:

              KT In answer to your comment below I have the same feelings. What none of us can really understand is how crazy these people are. They now count in their “stable” SBC, Evangelicals, Catholic and even some throw off mainline congretations that have been steeple jacked, UCC, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian and some AA congretations. Herman Cain was a Dominionist/Christocrat

            • Sue, it does bother me that Santorum has so many supporters. With all the bile and bigotry that he has spewed should have been enough to have people running away from him in droves, but it hasn’t and that truly bothers me. I feel the same about Newt. Here is a guy, on his third wife, after cheating on the first two, espousing family values and the morons he panders to eat it right up. They think his “acceptance,” of Christ is enough to blot out such “sin,” and hypocrisy. I believe these people are in the minority though, considering all of voting Americans.
              I see these polls saying X percentage of people favor Santorum, or Gingrich over Obama, but these polls are really premature. The presidential debates haven’t even started yet.

            • SueInCa says:

              But they have moved on from Bush. And their zealotry is real and nasty. I don’t even consider Bush in the scenario. And they are almost all liars. Lying is no big deal to them. You can lie then take it back in a smaller setting. The people your lie was aimed at may not hear the take back which is what GOP depend on. Their whole party line is based on fabrication, lies, conspiracy and the desire to judge and rule everyone by god’s law. Catholics are included. If you look around there are alot coming out of the woodwork. Santorum has given them cover.

        • Greta42 says:

          Sound reasoning, KT -- and I agree regarding the motivations about Bush and especially Cheney. Expansion of the empire and war profiteering drove these wars, and are still in play with the propaganda we continue to hear about bombing Iran. You’re correct about using religion as their motivation, especially the evangelical Christians.

          • Thanks Greta. Another selling point for the invasion of Iraq was revenge for 9/11, though Iraq had 0 involvement in that attack. I remember bush saying that proving Iraq’s involvement was the hardest part of his presidency. Of course it was hard, because it just wasn’t true. The neo-cons sure did try to convince the American people of it. Sadly, many Americans bought that BS hook, line and sinker.

            • SueInCa says:

              They refer to Nazi party and their effectiveness all the time.

            • I think some of these creeps actually do get inspiration from Geobbels remarks.

            • SueInCa says:

              KT and those of us who did not were called unpatriotic. Can you believe that? Same as in Nazi Germany. Anyone who did not believe Hitler’s ravings was considered unpatriotic. And not one of the people who questioned my patriotism ever came back and apologized.

  11. AdLib says:

    Fantastic post, Sue!

    I agree, the military is likely covering up the intentional burning of the Qurans with this cover story that it was an accident (since when are books burned as a basic policy of the military, let alone the religious books of other religions?).

    There is a hand-in-hand nature of evangelical extremism and racism, the mentality of those who are different in their appearance and beliefs are scary and must be destroyed. So for me, it’s hard to divine which of these hateful motivators is behind their actions.

    As to their goal, just as Rush and the GOP in Congress are learning now, you can only push the people so far until they push back and there are far more Americans who don’t want a theocracy than the minority who do.

    I can imagine a damaging Presidency and Congress that is populated by such people but I have trouble imagining their being able to sustain it if the majority turns on them.

    I have limited optimism about the American people but sufficient to be confident that if a theocratic government took over, they would soon be removed by the majority (though as with Bush, whoever follows would have a huge lift to repair the profound damage such people would do to our nation and the world).

    • SueInCa says:

      “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Joseph Goebbels

      Adlib you have much more faith than I do in the general public’s understanding of the truth. The problem with waiting to wake up is the governing body already has control of the military and would use it if necessary. I generally do not do this research late at night because I get the creeps.

    • Any real success by the RR would require vast changes to the Constitution. That is not an easy thing to accomplish. This is why we must have a majority in both the House and the Senate.
      I agree 100% about secular Americans being stronger in number than the “religious ones.” Our system of government was specifically designed to keep such changes to the Constitution from happening.
      Military personal can not be forced to attend religious services. I can’t speak for today’s military, but most of those I served with in the early 70s were not religious at all. I think any attempts by any religion, to make military policy is surely forbidden by our Constitution.

        • Third parties in America don’t have a very good track record. Try as they may, I don’t think they will be successful. Just like the Green Party, though their intentions are good, I just don’t hold out much hope for a third party, and if there are to be a 4th or a 5th, I think their chances are even slimmer.

          • SueInCa says:

            Can you see from the whois registration below how sneaky and how far the arm of their movement goes? They are hiding not expecting anyone will go beyond the exterior of their claim not to be GOP or DEM.

          • SueInCa says:

            Nice try on their part. I did the minimum of research I usually do and….

            They are the effin GOP

            goplancaster.com domain name record

            Make an offer now
            Registrant:
            Republican Committee of Lancaster County
            Larry Perkins
            902 Columbia Ave
            Lancaster, PA 17603 US
            +1.7172077329

          • SueInCa says:

            I m only thinking of the spoiler position and how the re-write of the constitution fits so well into the Christocrats/Dominionists hope for the future. If you add Americans Elect into the mix you have a problem on both sides. Then this party has co=opted the CA Independent Party. I was once registered there and I wonder how they did this I will do further research to find out.

            • Yeah, these nuts could be spoilers, but they say they are not democrats OR republicans. If they want to tilt the election to the republican side, they are taking a big chance. They don’t have any candidates in the race, unless you count Santorum, but he is a republican, one party they say they are not involved with. Like you said, they most likely are liars.

  12. LeahLB says:

    Very good article, Susan! I would add a couple more items. To follow up on John Nichol’s observations, political Christians -- Dominionists -- such as Santorum, believe that God’s Law supersedes all other man-made law. While he is spot on about the intent by Dominionists to re-write our Constitution, ensuring that it represents their erroneous interpretation that we were founded as a Christian Nation, it goes much deeper. Look for the emergence of the Constitution Party in 2016.

    http://www.constitutionparty.com/

    Thank you for introducing the most dangerous of the Dominionist 7 Mountain Mandate -- The Mountain of Government/Military.

    • SueInCa says:

      I ordered their info pack. Check out their constitution plan it follows the 7 mountains pretty close

    • SueInCa says:

      They are the effin GOP

      goplancaster.com domain name record

      Make an offer now
      Registrant:
      Republican Committee of Lancaster County
      Larry Perkins
      902 Columbia Ave
      Lancaster, PA 17603 US
      +1.7172077329

      Domain name: constitutionparty.com

      Registrant Contact:
      NA
      Constitution Party National Committee ()

      Fax:
      23 North Lime Street
      Lancaster, PA 17602
      US

      Administrative Contact:
      CyberPerks.Net
      Larry Perkins ()
      +1.7172830656
      Fax:
      16 Birch Ct.
      Lancaster, PA 17603
      US

    • SueInCa says:

      Leah
      Glad you liked it. I am humbled to be congratulated by you. Your knowledge on this issue is so much deeper than mine. Now for 6 more mountains in depth.

  13. Greta42 says:

    I had not thought about this topic in such a broad way, Sue. Yes, I knew about the Air Force Academy but did not know about the ratio of chaplains having changed so much. The idea that the ME wars were based on spreading the evangelical message seems outrageous considering the intensity of religious fervor in the ME.

    Yes, what has been happening within the US, especially since 2010, is alarming. Women have been targeted and if we read the ALEC mission statement, their goals are clear.

    Scary times ahead for us -- We must rid our government of this influence.

    • SueInCa says:

      Greta

      I had not thought in these terms either. Reading this book really opened my eyes to the total danger. I guess I knew in general terms but not in such detail.

      I just hope I can get through to enough who will, in turn, spread the word. I was reading reviews on the Rabbi’s book and so many treat this as some conspiracy theory despite the fact their words and deeds are all over the news.


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