AdLib : Heh! I would never do that! I watch him too so if I was going to hold that against people, I’d have to include me in that group!
SallyT : You too. See you later. Don’t hold it against me that I like Bill Maher’s show. I don’t always agree with him. But, I do watch it every week.
AdLib : Gotcha, I’ll watch it now. Have a great weekend!
SallyT : You watch the show. I don’t know if you will hear it the way I heard it.
SallyT : Okay, AdLib, I didn’t hear him support Paul’s view just that he likes the things he says about his foreign ideas and that is why young people like him, he feels. He did not say he supported him. You will hear him say that.
AdLib : That’s just plain crazy and Maher supports a crazy man’s views because they intersect with his…albeit from a crazy, different direction.
AdLib : Paul is nuts when he talks about anything other than being against wars and occupations. What Maher misses is that Paul feels that way because he believes that all countries should be left alone no matter what. Paul said he would have opposed our going to war against Hitler in WWII, he would have rather that many millions more Jews died and Hitler won WWII.
SallyT : But, if you didn’t know all the other things about Paul, I can see why the young like him.
SallyT : He doesn’t mention pot tonight just the foreign policy. He says Paul he nuts when he talks about the gold standard.
AdLib : Maher likes Paul because of Maher’s silly core issue, legalizing pot. I support that too but it’s not a reason I would ever say positive things about Ron Paul as Maher does.
SallyT : He says he likes his foreign policy but he says he thinks Paul is crazy on to many other things. He see why the young are taken by him.
AdLib : Sally – That’s cool. Some folks here feel as you do about him, some feel as I do.
SallyT : Anyway, I don’t think you will throw a magazine tonight. Now be sure you listen close when he talks about Ron Paul.
SallyT : He gets upset at times with the President but I think he really admires the President.
AdLib : Sally – Once in a while, only when the guests are really good, I watch the overtime.
SallyT : I don’t see him the same way a lot of you do.
SallyT : Oh, I think he always liked him.
AdLib : Night Foodchain, great seeing you here, sleep well!
AdLib : That’s good to hear. He was such an EmoProg most of the year. Now that Obama’s popular again…he likes him. Fancy that!
SallyT : I don’t know if you ever watch the after show on line but that was good, too.
foodchain : HI’m out. Have to say. Miss you guys
SallyT : Oh, Maher was good tonight. He defended Obama again!
SallyT : I will see you on here later for sure.
AdLib : Have a great evening, I’m going to catch up on Maher and see if I throw a magazine at his head tonight or not!
SallyT : Can’t think of anyone I would rather end the evening with.
SallyT : That us!
AdLib : Sally – We’re late night people!
SallyT : Gee, AdLib, I seem to be always there with you to close the bar!
AdLib : Looks like it’s time to bring tonight’s edition of Vox Populi to a close. Thanks Foodchain and Sally and everyone else for making it another fun and enlightening evening!
SallyT : I think I will leave you guys, too.
SallyT : Goodnight CL. See you later and that was a good article!
AdLib : CL – I’ve fixed it, when the page is refreshed, the copies won’t show! Sleep well!!!
AdLib : Night CL! Have a restful weekend! And next week, we’re back at it!
choicelady : Sorry – MAJOR malfunction! Trying for a graceful exit, I remain yours, choicelady.
SallyT : He most have convinced them for a long time. He was him that came to them for the divorce or a 3 way.
AdLib : Sally – He did ask his wife for an open marriage.
choicelady : Well everyone, after swilling out my freezer and dealing with EmoProgs, I’m beat. Have a GREAT weekend all! Be well, and see you next Friday I hope!
SallyT : AdLib, that was after he divorced them, not while he was fooling them.
AdLib : Sally – I don’t know that he’s that good of an actor and judging by how upset his ex’s are, I don’t think he convinced them either.
AdLib : In fact, we should create a betting pool for what his “tell” is when endorsing Romney, clearing his throat, forcing a laugh, blowing up…
SallyT : Gingrich will handle it just like he did when he had to tell his wife he loved her while he was screwing someone else. I think he might be a good actor……
foodchain : AdLib, and Callista! I want to see a hair out of place!
AdLib : CL and FC – You know that Gingrich will not be able to pull off his endorsement of Romney without some kind of stutter or wince. It should be HILARIOUS!
foodchain : Ad, I’ll clear the decks for that. It will be fun to see what Newt ends up doing, petulant thing that he is
AdLib : Foodchain – Yep, the jobs reports have been getting better and the Repubs denials about it being good look so silly and dishonest. With an improving economy, ROmney loses his last argument for being elected.
choicelady : ADLib – what a GREAT image – Newt trying to look HAPPY endorsing Mittens! He’s not that good an actor! It will be quite an evening!
AdLib : Night Funk, take care of that flu!
choicelady : Goodnight, funk – take care of yourself! I second the hot toddy suggestion!
foodchain : night funk. Hope to see you soon
AdLib : Foodchain – I will have the popcorn popped and we’ll be live blogging here deliriously as the Gingrich tries to look convincing when endorsing Romney!
foodchain : So the charts for Obama look pretty good with jobs
funksands : Gotta go folks. Duty calls. Great seeing you all again.
choicelady : funk- LOL!!! Perfect music!
AdLib : Night Murph!
funksands : testing
funksands : Night Murph
foodchain : AdLib, can’t wait for the nasty! they deserve every bit of themselves
AdLib : There will have to be a campaign against the Kochs and Rove. At the same time, Obama does have a pretty powerful list of accomplishments and Romney’s lies along with the Kochs’ and Rove’s will all start to grow stale together. The negative attacks ROmney made on Gingrich hammered him…because they were true! There were pictures of Newt sitting with Nancy Pelosi and he did cheat on his wives. As Obama’s campaign and the DNC blow up Romney’s lies and the Kochs/Rove lies with truths that many Americans will be aware of (killing Bin Laden isn’t “weak”), I think they will be discounted.
funksands : CL, played to the theme of “Jaws”
choicelady : ‘Night, Murph! Sweet dreams!
foodchain : Night Chris. Good weekend to you
choicelady : funk – I do think that is a very strong message: five filthy rich guys are trying to buy YOUR VOTE. What do they want to do for you – or TO you?
SallyT : Murph, go rest your head. Goodnight!
MurphTheSurf3 : So much to think about tonight. Appreciate all of the insights and perspectives. Night to all.
funksands : Ad, I hope the convention is quiet and full of disgruntled resignation. The more dispirited the better.
choicelady : Chris beofe you go – Palin was FORCED on McCain by the religious right. McCain did not pick her – she was picked FOR him.
funksands : Food, you certainly can’t base an entire campaign on that, but carve off a good chunk of money highlighting that 5 dudes are trying to buy the Presidency and Congress
AdLib : Night Chris!
AdLib : Foodchain – Imagine the demands that the Baggers will insist on in the Repub platform to go along with Romney as the nom, it will be a hatefest! And the Repubs in Congress will be tied to it as well. That will be one nasty convention!
SallyT : Chris, got to go? Well, have a good night. See you later!
foodchain : Funk, I like this idea of running against Rove. A lot. He is brother of evil. Lee Atwater was the father
ChrisR266 : Thanks,Choice. I wish the same for you.
funksands : Thanks teach
ChrisR266 : Golden slumbers to you all, and feel better, Funk.
choicelady : Good night, Chris! Have good weekend!
funksands : See ya Chris
ChrisR266 : Third time I’ve been kicked out tonight. Probably time for me to go. Have a great weekend all.
AdLib : Murph – Palin isn’t damaged goods because she was on the ticket, it’s all the stupidity since then including quitting as Governor for grabbing the cash. Even so, what was all the heat about last summer and fall, “Is Palin going to run?” Put a Christie in the same position and though he’d lose with Romney, he would be elevated nationally and have the cache to run in 2016 for the top job.
foodchain : Chris, yeah, it’s about time what comes around….
ChrisR266 : Food: We’re agreed. It’s not the platform they’re worrying about now, it’s the existence of the party that has them concerned, finally.
funksands : I think the Dems are preparing to run a race against Rove and the other dark money operatives. If they were smart they would. “Vote for us, we aren’t funded by shadows”
ChrisR266 : Murph: What is so funny to me, Palin was always damaged goods. McCain threw the dice, knowing the bet he was making, and he f’d it up, big time.
foodchain : Chris, it is early but I just don’t see the GOP platform developing; more like quicksand for them
AdLib : Funk – Redistricting won’t have an effect on the Presidential election but indeed, the House races become tougher because of it along with the voter suppression laws. So we do have to fight hard this year and never let numbers get us overconfident.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad, but Palin is very damaged goods now. I admit if she had gone back to Alaska and done a bang up job, she would have had a real power base. The TP is illusionay.
ChrisR266 : Choice: They can’t. I think they’re trying to concede without looking like they’re conceding. The PTB now really smell the demise of the party and they don’t know how the hell to salvage that.
funksands : Chris, I sure hope so. I have a feeling that because of redistricting and supression some of these polls have a higher margin of error.
ChrisR266 : Funk: That is exactly why I think the tide has finally turned. All GOP candidates are now losing to Obama in Ohio by margins outside the margin of error. All of em.
choicelady : AdLib – I realize Romney is highly detested, but I cannot figure out if Rove etc. are pushing him, how can anyone else emerge? By the convention there will be way too much invested in Mittens for anyone else to make monetary sense. They could not turn the public onto someone brand new between the convention and November – it would be very risky. Remember the Palin! Soared and crashed in 60 days.
AdLib : Murph – Palin was on a ticket that lost horribly, the biggest loss margin in recent history and yet she came out of it with a lot of power. Any Repub seeing that example would love to be the next Palin in terms of popularity and influence.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…I join you in your worry….redistr icting plus block the vote plus a hugely funded propaganda campaign can trump truth
funksands : Ad / Murph, what I’m really nervous about is that 35 of the 50 states redistricting effort were controlled by the GOP
ChrisR266 : Murph: Sullivan’s missive was fantastic. We’re agreed.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…McDonnell is running for the role that is clear
choicelady : Chris – ohhhhhhh. I watch that. You’d think I’d’a figured that out. I’m SO glad you did not mean Hugh Hefner – his taste in decor is disgusting!
AdLib : Funk – The image of Romney and McDonnell together would seem to be smothering to their core’s enthusiasm. I know many Baggers like what he’s done but he’s not going to get anyone excited. Two bores.
ChrisR266 : Funk: Beside the lost cause South, where the hell else does this help the ticket? I’m wondering.
ChrisR266 : Funk: Wow. That is either genius or nightmare. I’m thinking nightmare.
MurphTheSurf3 : I keep “passing out” Andrew Sullivan great article on the real Obama and the unreal GOP and Dems. «link» Should be part an arrow in every progressives quiver.
funksands : Yes. Toss-up state, Evangelical, Virginia is in the South according to some.
AdLib : Murph – I think turnout dips for Repubs and is strong but not 2008 levels for Dems. The Dems can and very well may take the House back. I mean, most of these baggers have work out their welcome and people have to consider if they want 2 more years of gridlock. The DNC should get Dems running for the House to agree to pass a set of legislation and say, “Elect us and Obama nad this is exactly what we will pass in the first 100 days…or else elect Repubs and nothing will get done, as before.”
choicelady : funk – missed the deck thing. Honey – whatever floats your boat! If you aren’t in a debt crisis, you can build your deck however you like. Ceramic, wood, stainless, copper, whatever!!! I have NO need of a deck – I’m ground level. But man a deck is nice if you need level space for living area and don’t have it any other way!!! Go for it!
SallyT : Funk’s being funny.
foodchain : CL, what a great community. Picturing it
ChrisR266 : Funk: McDonnell? Really?>
funksands : Murph, I predict McDonnell
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….but any GOP who wants a lead role in the real party and/or government cannot exit the race as damaged goods…so no Christie or Rubio…
choicelady : Oh Sally – always wanted to live in a converted barn!!! Lucky you!
ChrisR266 : Choice: House Hunters on HGTV.
funksands : Murph, I think the House will be greatly impacted. The Senate could very well go GOP regardless. We need biiiig turnout.
ChrisR266 : Adlib: re the GOP, I think you have both a demoralized base and a fractured GOP.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…agreed re. your summary of the state of the GOP prez run….impact on the House and Senate?
choicelady : foodchain – that’s wonderful! I can envision a house one-half hallway. It’s sort of the issue with ours. We have only two cats though – long way to go to meet your high standard. Ours is the first house on the site and on this block, and it’s delightful. It’s just – odd. But so are all the other Arts & Crafts bungalows in this area, so someone will love it when we’re ready to move on. IF we ever do. We are all on one story which is good if we deteriorate!
AdLib : Murph – Romney is glowing green already and those like Limbaugh will step back but I think that there will always be a Repub who sees running as VP, as Palin did, a ticket to the big time. So, I don’t think he’ll have trouble getting a VP because whoever it is can do like Palin and blame ROmney for losing the whole thing…then clock in at Fox News and get paid $1 million a year.
funksands : Now we know the origins of “foodchain”. I loooove knowing stuff like that.
ChrisR266 : Evening, Food.
funksands : Chris/Murph x2
ChrisR266 : Murph: We are agreed. The right wing media is placing itself as not related and responsible for what is going to happen in November.
funksands : Thankee
choicelady : funk – that’s a GREAT retort! Bravo!
SallyT : Sounds nice, CL! My house will be 100 this year, too. But, it stood as a barn 30 before.
funksands : CL
foodchain : CL Love old houses. Lived in a 1905 four square, 1500 sq feet with 1/3 of that being hallway. Two kids, three dogs, two cats, fish tank, home business, one bathroom upstairs. Foodchain is because all we lacked was a bird
choicelady : Chris – HH? Hugh Hefner? I’m dim.
funksands : My comeback to any mouthbreather that gives the GOP credit for these jobs number is to also credit the Democratic House of 1980-1988 for everything Reagan ever did.
ChrisR266 : Choice: I blame HH too. I talked about that with my class of Seniors ready to graduate this week.
AdLib : Murph – I think it’s two things. First, I think you’re right that Limbaugh and others on the far right see Romney as weak and a loser. Secondly, they would be enthusiastic warriors, even on the way to a loss, if the candidate was one of them. Combine that and add in that a near majority of Repubs STILL want someone else to run…I think you have either a demoralized base in 2012 or a fractured and warring GOP.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…when will Romney become radioactive. I see him beginning to glow now. It may come down to his not being able to find a front line VP choice….is Quayle, or his kid, available?
SallyT : The GOP base watch a lot of wrestling and I think they are waiting to see that!
choicelady : Hey food! Welcome!
choicelady : Sally – my house is really cute, 100 years old this year, but the rooms are small, no “open plan”, oddly laid out, and I love it. I WILL fix up the kitchen but only to a point. We redid the bath, very House & Garden now, it outshines the rest of the house! So the kitchen will be upgraded SORT OF but the rest of the house has modest Cratsman appeal (lots of woodwork gone unfortunately) and it’s very cute. It’s just not fancy. But – I love it! Just met the granddaughter of the people who’d lived in it for half its life – 50 years from the 30s to the 80s. He was a painter on the Southern Pacific RR. Very cool to find that out – and he was a Mexican immigrant to boot! Wow.
foodchain : so those economic numbers were pretty cool. How does the GOP work that I wonder
foodchain : ok this feels good
funksands : Hey Foxy!
SallyT : Foodchain, good evening!
funksands : Ad. Correct. Turnout in states without a polarizing referendum is going to be very low.
AdLib : Hey Foodchain!
MurphTheSurf3 : FOOD is serving…howdy
escribacat : Hi Food
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…he benefits whenever his “prophecies” come true….
foodchain : hey everyone!
AdLib : Funk – I think the base is going to revolt after Romney is crowned, they can see plainly, especially after the blatant exercise in FL, that the GOP Elite will shove Romney on the the Baggers without any consideration. Even with a Bagger-friendly VP, I think they will be really pissed off. They’ve seen Boehner and Cantor betray them, this could be the last straw.
SallyT : stell=steel
escribacat : CL – perfect description of the recent debates
funksands : Murph, what does Rush gain by being pleased with anything?
SallyT : Funk, I don’t know if a stainless stell deck is overkill but I think it will be slippery and you will be Killed going Over!
choicelady : funk – yeah, the debates are looking more and more like gladiator events! The snarling mobs we pretend are an audience want the Emperor to let them give the thumb up or down and the bloodletting to begin. Pretty creepy!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I reintroduced it as part of the Rush conversation and now attach it to what I see as diminishing hopes for a GOP united front. Rush is distancing himself from a loss. He did the same with McCain.
funksands : CL,so my stainless steel deck is overkill?
funksands : Ad, the base won’t be happy until there is a beheading during a debate.
AdLib : Murph, Yes, I saw that and replied. I sure hope it’s the case!
choicelady : funk – I don’t dislike large decks. LOVE them. IF you can afford them. But certain things (stainless appliances) have become the sine qua non that got people into so much financial trouble. I’d love the house we visited on Lummi Island – surrounded by woods but with a deck at the back looking over the sound to Mt. Baker. GOD it was gorgeous! But no WAY can we afford that house. I’m just glad I got to stay there. It was very fine!
MurphTheSurf3 : Why is Rush shouting about Mitt. Trump endorsed him. Mitt is golden now, right? Or no.
AdLib : Isn’t Rush’s dissatisfaction a window into the future of a Republican Party with Romney as the nom? As he messes up and shoots himself in the foot, won’t they just lose their enthusiasm to vote, even with Congress on the line? I think so.
SallyT : CL, I know how you feel! I got tried of them always saying the rooms were to small and the closest too. Small, gee, they looked big to me!
choicelady : Chris – OK. I will take back my suspicion of Charity Navigator!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad LIb…I mentioned this earlier…Spent part of the day with a GOP insider who says he thinks the Mo. state caucus was going to go with Gingrich even though he is not on the Tues beauty contest primary. That would be great.
AdLib : Chris – I’m not familiar with Charity Navigator but if it’s the case that they say a charity that takes more than 20% is excessive and Komen takes 24%, isn’t it a simple call to say that they are not putting enough of donations towards the cause? And again, dealing with such a massive base of dinations, does a charity really need $200 million a year on hand to operate?
funksands : CL, huge decks are pretty cool.
choicelady : Rush is to the GOP what the EmoProgs are to the Dems. He’s a purist with a loud, obnoxious voice.
SallyT : He has been yelling a lot lately about the GOP.
choicelady : Chris – I blame them for everyone’s contributing to the housing bubble. Oh! Gotta have a 4000 square foot house! Stainless appliances! A media room! Pool! Huge deck for entertaining! Mortgage I can’t afford and am a damn fool for taking on!!!!! I got “kitchen envy” from that show! Watching yuppies turn up their noses at houses and kitchens I’d KILL for made me sick.
funksands : Ad, it does look like some positive weighting is given to an organization with consistent positive cashflow.
SallyT : Limbaugh really doesn’t like Romney.
AdLib : I’m jumping back to an earlier topic for a moment but did any of you see or hear Limbaugh dissing the GOP and ROmney, “We’re not good enough to win.” It was hilarious.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: Sometimes I believe that organizations like Charity Nav. give us skewed pictures to account for the realities they can’t or won’t share with regular peole like us.
ChrisR266 : Choice: Don’t reject Charity Navigator, they have to deal with so much diffuse accounting, they have made sense of much of it.
AdLib : CL – I never visited charitynavigator before but their rating of Komen as excellent seems to fly in the face of their own definition of what a charity should put towards their cause compared to what they keep.
ChrisR266 : Choice: House Hunters International. You know, the people who go and buy obscenely priced real estate outside the lower 48? and seem to have bottomless pockets? That show.
choicelady : AdLib – now it makes me distrust Charity Navigator. Are they the S&P of charities? Inflating the “good value” of the high profile foundations? Bleah.
AdLib : Funk – Murph said that charitynavigator .com says that Admin costs above 20% are excessive. And keep in mind the huge amount that 24% is on! That makes a huge difference too! Around $200 million a year kept in assets and income for a charity? Huh???
choicelady : Chris – THOSE are some BAD stats! Bugger those people! Susan Komen died of breast cancer, and this foundation was the hope of many other women. Now it seems it’s just a shell game. Screw ’em.
ChrisR266 : Sally: Yeah, Europe is getting kicked in the ass with very cold weather. It will affect crops and the growing season.
choicelady : Chris – you watching HGTV? The Dream House? After today, I just want a refrigerator that runs! Mine is functioning – forgot they’re not supposed to bang, shake, rattle. Maybe that was a tip off I missed?
ChrisR266 : AdLib: Hmmm. I did the math off their last 7 years of reports. The average % of total revenues that went directly to research was 21%. Over 50% went to overhead, administration, personnel, and donor solicitation.
SallyT : Wow, Chris, I am watching the weather on BBC and it is cold over there in Europe! Down under must have better weather, tho.
choicelady : AdLib – I’m not super impressed given those figures. Retaining over $227 million that did NOT go out in grants seems pretty sleazy.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….the charity navigator and other charity evaluators have always given Komen good ratings BUT I senses the leadership and direction of the group has changed.
funksands : Ad, is that good? Pardon my density
AdLib : Just did the math in another set of numbers, according to Komen’s 2010-2011 financials, last year they provided 76% of the money they received for services, taking 24% of contributions for the organization.
ChrisR266 : Sally: Hell, I couldn’t afford to fly down there to see it, LOL.
choicelady : AdLib – that’s not real high…that leaves them $227 million plus for – what?
funksands : I heard somewhere that fully 1% of Indiana’s unemployment is due to NAFTA agreements with Mexico. Wow
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…the track record of job development (or rather the lack of it) and the decline in wages, loss of benefits, disappearance of collective bargaining, and deteriorating work conditions….wo uld seem clear….but the stupid inherit the earth again.
SallyT : Chris, I don’t think I can even help with a down Payment.
ChrisR266 : Sally: Oh holy crap! A home in Australia for $880,000. Should we just line up? Bwaaaahahaha.
ChrisR266 : Sally: give me 30 seconds–they’r e someplace really rainforesty! Got to get to the summary…
choicelady : Murph – yes, RTW is designed to kill unions. But the joke on the NON union people is that if the union dies, so do their own benefits. It’s the most short-sighted notion in the world from employees’ perspective, and I do NOT get how people think it’s a GOOD thing.
ChrisR266 : Agreed, Choice, but as long as Daniels is Governor, I can’t figure a way into Indiana to save it from itself.
AdLib : Here are some numbers: Komen’s total assets: $492,556,922 Total grants payable: $264,838,475
SallyT : Chris, how’s the prices?
MurphTheSurf3 : CL a good source for critiques on Right to Work….in practice union killers….http: //www.badforindi ana.org/
ChrisR266 : Ok:, FYI to all of you jealous people, I’m monitoring House hunters International out of the corner of my eye….
SallyT : Well, Funk, that was a funk up there in FL.
AdLib : Night Sabreen!
choicelady : Chris – I worry about Gary. US Steel could really do a number on workers if IN becomes a RTW state.
ChrisR266 : Pleasant slumber, Sabreen
ChrisR266 : Funk: Just Florida’s attempt to stay classy, once again.
choicelady : AdLib – thanks! I will peruse it after we get done here. Thank you!
choicelady : ‘Night Sabreen. Sleep well!
SallyT : Good night Sabreen. See you later on here somewhere.
funksands : Night Sabreen. Thanks!
ChrisR266 : Am I the only one to think that Indiana is a lost cause? This state seems to be so effed up as to be unsalvageable.
funksands : Has anyone mentioned that tool in the FL legislature that presented a bill for consideration and forgot to take the ALEC header off of the paperwork?
AdLib : CL – Here is a link to Komen’s most recent audited financial statement, just combing through it now: «link»
Sabreen60 : Well good people, I have an early morning so I better say Good night or I won’t get up Have a great and safe week. Take care of that cold, Funk. Drink you a few hot toddies.
ChrisR266 : Choice: But SGKF beat that transparency by placing members on the board who could connive to co-opt the transparency. Look what it got them?
MurphTheSurf3 : MOS EISLEY CANTINA at Star Wars «link»
choicelady : Murph – I’m fine with right to work laws, so long as those who do not join the union also do not get the benefits of the negotiated settlements. Otherwise they are just free riders. If you believe in rugged individualism and your right to stand up on your own two feet with your boss – DO so.
SallyT : No tattoos but my eyes are on the side of my head. You can’t miss me!
AdLib : Murph – Sure! It is part of the ALEC/Koch agenda. I wonder of it will have the same impact in IN, mobilizing Dems and Indies in the GE against the Repubs.
ChrisR266 : I’ll look for you too, Sally.
ChrisR266 : Yeah, Funk. Besides Ferris, SWars is coming back, too.
choicelady : AdLib – as a c-3 our donors can demand to see our books I understand. So I imagine foundations must be even more needing to be transparent. Not quite sure since foundation law is trickier than just non-profit. But I think yes – they are supposed to file a 990 that is also totally public. But since I looked at Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse and saw how easily there were hidden things ending up in Graham’s pockets, it’s why any non-profit or foundation has to reveal all – but with a good CPA may NOT be revealing everything! We do – we’re so poor we can’t afford to hide a thing or we’d have NO cred at all!
SallyT : I only watch the commercials, Chris. I will look for me!
funksands : Mos Eisley cantina? I’ll keep a lookout for you? Any tattoos or distinguishing scars that would identify you?
ChrisR266 : Sally: Watch the Superbowl commercials. You might see yourself in that bar, LOL!
MurphTheSurf3 : ad lib…can we chat about the right to work law in In at some time in light of the Super Bowl (player’s association stance)…..
SallyT : If you can’t find me here, Funk, I am probably in that bar in Star Wars.
KQµårk 死神 : I guess they didn’t even get a debate
ChrisR266 : It freakin’ rocks, Funk. I’m such a geek, I sit with my Anakin Skywalker light saber cuddled in my arms and legs while I’m watching.
AdLib : Poor NV, upstaged by FL, the Pawlenty of the GOP Primary.
funksands : Ah Sally. There you are.
funksands : Thanks CL. I will
SallyT : Funk, hello.
funksands : Its awesome isn’t it Chris? I can’t remember when I had more fun watching something.
escribacat : KQ — it’s hard to get excited about NV!!
KQµårk 死神 : Funny how the NV caucus is coming up an nobody cares. But it was the same way in 2008 if I recall.
choicelady : funk – I’ve not seen it, but that sounds FUN. Hope you get better. My husband has had a cold following a bout of pneumonia, so he’s been down and out for over 5 weeks. Take CARE of yourself!
ChrisR266 : Funk: I have seen it. Two times.
SallyT : Got it AdLib. Okay, I will switch to the BBC.
funksands : Hi Sabreen, Ad, CL, Chris. Oh man E-cat, that sucks!
escribacat : Funk — me too! I’ve been really sick for a week now.
ChrisR266 : Hello Friend Funk. Hope the evening’s treating you well.
AdLib : Chris and CL – I’m with you, I don’t buy that percentage either. CL – Can anyone who contributes demand to see their books?
funksands : Thanks! I am nursing a serious cold. My boys and I snuggled up and watched StarWars Uncut. Anyone seen it?
Sabreen60 : Hi Funk!
ChrisR266 : Choice: I’m not so confident that they cooked the books, as much as I AM CONFIDENT that their donation base really didn’t have any idea where all the money was really going. Sunshine is a bitch for SKGF, but a godsend for those who contribute.
choicelady : AdLib – is Cher OK? sounded as if she was having some real computer problems.
AdLib : Hey Funk!
choicelady : Hey funk! Welcome!
AdLib : Sally – CNN is all about promoting and pandering to the RW, heck, they’re partners with the Baggers in debates!
funksands : Hi!
escribacat : I have to try and remember where I read that 70% number.
choicelady : AdLib – given the rest of their lies, I’d demand an audit if I’d donated to Komen! Sounds as if they might cook the books!
AdLib : Escrib – Heh! That was my wording. Here’s how they describe that percentage: Program Expenses: This measure reflects what percent of its total budget a charity spends on the programs and services it exists to deliver. Dividing a charity’s program expenses by its total functional expenses yields this percentage.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: It lies.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…a real charity effort
SallyT : Wow, don’t mean to change subjects but CNN is all about Israel getting ready to strike Iran!
choicelady : Murph – our admin costs are quite low. We put everything into program, but I am the program! We do produce study guides and other resources for people – but strict admin? Very low.
escribacat : Adlib ….maybe “the cause” has a broad meaning?
MurphTheSurf3 : For once, I had no problem staying on line and connected
AdLib : Here’s a link to Komen on charitynavigator , it says that 80.5% of donations go to the cause: «link»
SallyT : I agree, CL, that is terrible!
escribacat : Murphy — I always look at that charity navigator now — first think I look at is the CEO salary
escribacat : CL — yes, their numbers look really bad.
MurphTheSurf3 : This site, the charity navigator, regards admin costs of more than 20 percent as excessive. «link»
ChrisR266 : Did we all just have a cluster jam? I thought my computer was puking, but it appears that all of us were booted out.
choicelady : es – that much? I suppose if you looked at my organization, salaries would consume much of our money but we ARE a lobbying (c-4)and education (c-3) organization which means MY time. It’s hard to be service oriented and NOT do that, but Komen is supposed to donate money to research. Taking over half – 70%???? – is outrageous.
choicelady : es – that’s turning an adverse condition into an advantage. Well done!
escribacat : I read itwas 70%
MurphTheSurf3 : Anyone know what Komen’s admin costs are? What percent on the dollar?
escribacat : Okay. I had to make a side trip to the kitchen too (hehe)
AdLib : Escrib – If you Vox freezes up, just click on the title at the top of the page and it will reload and be active.
choicelady : AdLib – I also heard that Komen rakes of megabucks at the top before donating. That’s always stinky.
choicelady : es – you’re back with us again, thank goodness!
SallyT : Right, they won’t last and PP is come out the better for it.
escribacat : yes, it went dead for awhile
choicelady : es dear – you passed the test. Mine jammed, did yours? I just “refreshed” and it worked fine.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL the billing payment is “voluntary” but they ask that towns do what they can so that RC will have the funds for the next disaster….it is a scam to raise extra funds….and they imply that towns that respond well get preferential treatment if disaster strikes again.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….the billing payment is “voluntary” but they ask that towns do what they can so that RC will have the funds for the next disaster….it is a scam to raise extra funds….and they imply that towns that respond well get preferential treatment if disaster strikes again.
escribacat : test
KQµårk 死神 : Like Obama always says there should be things in American life that are too important to be infected with partisan politics, like the military, like secular charities etc.
AdLib : Sally – A charity can’t continue as a charity if it is publicly seen as a bad player. Can Kormen pull out of this? I don;t think so and that’s a good thing, money should go to more genuine charities and directly to PP.
choicelady : Murph – a BILL?????? That’s obscene and a new wrinkle I must say! Outrageous!
choicelady : KQ – very good distinction. This Komen morass is new. And it MUST be investigated. We in the non-profit world exist largely due to trust. We are meticulous in our records and separation of funds and activities, our c-3 from our c-4. When a foundation that cannot HAVE a c-4 to do political lobbying or anything uses its funds so illegally, it HAS to be stopped. BTW – there are a couple of RW religious groups in CA that are doing the same thing and thinking they’re getting away with it. They are not!
SallyT : Koman is now a political charity. That rep will be hard to get away from and I think they won’t be able to. Goodbye to them.
KQµårk 死神 : I heard the head of NOW on one of the MSNBC shows and that’s what she was saying. Fighting breast cancer was a safe place where it did not matter if you were conservative or liberal. You could still fight a common cause. Komen changed all that now.
AdLib : Murph – The Red Cross gives Mayors a bill for helping out in emergencies??? What are the donations used for then?
SallyT : Koman is losing their support from the small donors and those that believe in the cause, To Find A Cure!
SallyT : Koman still have their big donors, those with the political reasons.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I was involved with a tornado cleanup aftermath a few years back…when the Red Cross bill arrived the mayor was gobsmacked, the FEMA folks just nodded their head ruefully.
KQµårk 死神 : What Komen did was make a totally non-partisan issue like breast cancer and insert partisan politics into it.
AdLib : CL – Great perspective on this. I would also add though that the decay of corruption has seeped almost everywhere so even the things people typically have trust in surprise them when they turn out to be hiding nasty things inside the,
choicelady : AdLib – the Red Cross got its first bad rap after Liddy Dole refused to do blood testing for HIV. It just grew from there. And yet the LOCAL Red Cross chapters did great work – and lost funding for the mistrust of the national. Also – some people thought the Red Cross should do rebuilding etc. confusing them with FEMA. So real problems and made up problems all fuse into one giant nightmare.
KQµårk 死神 : Yup United Way is even worse. But I think that’s a separate issue from secular charities throwing away their primary missions to favor partisan politics. This is kinda new.
AdLib : CL – Remember how the American Red Cross was exposed for what a fraud it was? When any entity has huge sums of money, it will corrupt to one degree or another, sometimes massively as with Komen. If they didn’t have so much money, they would be too worried about alienating people to have pulled this stunt. Their wealth gave them the confidence to do this…and the trashing of their rep is the only reason they relented, they still want to continue on the decided course.
SallyT : The bad is more interesting because it has drama. The truth is just a documentary.
choicelady : ADLib – we have looked for 50 years under rocks. I think the unanswered questions from JFK’s assassination gave people the willies and laid the ground for distrust first of government then everyone. Then Vietnam and its bald lies. What people forget are the brave souls who came forward on so many issues – Pentagon Papers, Watergate,etc. and in every instance – EVERY instance – it was the RW that was indicted. The only “gotcha” the Dems had to suffer was Monica. But now we have a paranoid politics. Whole book about that from years ago, just as true now.
SallyT : Murph, to many times people only hear the bad and choose to take it as so. They don’t wait to hear the truth.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T…voter id’s, defund pp, right to work bills, and acorn all part of a massive effort to disenfranchise and marginalize those who are not in the GOP base…are folks catching on?
SallyT : I should have said ‘they put the lie at there”.
choicelady : Chris – I’d heard a lot of this before the revelation that Komen had dropped PP. Their focus on “the cure” has misled a lot of women into thinking it helped them as survivors. It does NOT, nor does it emphasize prevention. Heard they are actually endangering women by encouraging overuse of mammograms that MAY contribute to the development of cancer. So even before this lovely RW VP came aboard, there were questions about their ethics.
SallyT : You put the lie out there and it takes time to get the truth heard and all to often the truth gets out to late!
AdLib : Murph and KQ – It was so amusing and so embarrassingly transparent, watching the Repubs trying to tell America, “Up is down, good is bad, we’re the opposition so we can’t accept reality and we have to say outright lies that even we don’t believe.”
ChrisR266 : Daughter just walked in the door. be back shortly…
KQµårk 死神 : Great point sally.
SallyT : CL, kinda like the attacks on Acorn.
ChrisR266 : KQ: Exactly. That’s the new message now. It must be what we all pound. We must highlight this now. With these kind of moments, the rawness keeps people alert and receptive to truth.
MurphTheSurf3 : Chris….I had the same impression watching GOP talking heads today trying to build a case for today’s “bad economic news”.
KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely CL and by him trying to bring them up again shows what’s behind the Komen decisions.
choicelady : KQ – those charges have been around for PPFA for years and NEVER proven to be true at all. I worked for PPAC, the advocacy group in CA, and they are SO careful about all of these things! I have some beefs with them. These are not the reasons.
AdLib : What is hard for many people is seeing the facade of the America we believe in torn apart, revealing how corrupt and horrible so much around us truly is. But as they say, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem…and whether it’s our allegedly altruistic charities or our government, we’ve got big problems.
KQµårk 死神 : Remember the whole ‘are you better off four years ago?’ Think about it this month compared to the first month of the Obama presidency is a million job shift in job numbers.
ChrisR266 : Murph: I believed I was right much more as I watched Brinkman try to massage all the media outlets with that smarmy bullshit she spewed yesterday for about 14 hours. She’s probably taken about 25 pills and drank a half a fifth to drown out what she now knows is a horrific and charity ending move.
SallyT : I got that about the ribbon from the trailer of the movie.
Sabreen60 : CL, The courage that woman showed in that video is awesome.
ChrisR266 : Murph: That is what I believe. The Big Lie is coming apart; the seams are giving.
choicelady : AdLib – sorry to confuse, I misread you. NO – if Hadassah lobbied for them, a foundation, that is ILLEGAL.
KQµårk 死神 : “It’s not Susan G. Komen for the Cure putting women’s lives at risk, but Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is trying to fan the flames of a culture war to distract from the serious allegations being investigated in Congress that led to Komen for the Cure’s decision. Former Planned Parenthood workers have pledged to testify that the company has: failed to report the sexual abuse of minors, given women inaccurate and misleading information, and fraudulently mishandled state and federal taxpayer funds. Some of these allegations were exposed by “The Gift Of Life” cast member Lila Rose and her group Live Action.”
KQµårk 死神 : Chris actually the quote by the Citizen’s united ahole made me put two and two together.
SallyT : The original color was a dull color like tan or something and the founder wouldn’t give Ester permission to use it because she said they would just use it to promote their product. So, Ester said fine. We will just change the color and did just that.
choicelady : KQ – I agree with Chris. You’ve identified a very creepy thread betwee Komen and Citizens.
AdLib : Check out the trailer for Pink Ribbons, about the corruption of Komen (thanks Chris for pointing me here!): «link»
choicelady : Sally – what color WAS the ribbon?
ChrisR266 : Choice: they don’t even believe that screed or any other. They’re just arrogant and naive about how women really feel. They just don’t get it.
choicelady : Sally – thanks! I’ll check the link. Much appreciated.
SallyT : Ester Lauder changed it to promote their products.
ChrisR266 : I don’t even like pink. In fact, I abhor pink. I cannot buy pink packaged yogurt. All my money goes to PP.
choicelady : AdLib – yes, if Hadassah lobbied, it’s totally illegal. Foundations cannot do this, and last night or tonight one of the congresswomen noted that Komen does NOT have a c-4. I understand foundations MAY NOT have c-4 sister organizations. So any which way, they’re illegal.
MurphTheSurf3 : Chris, CL…is it possible that the BIG LIE strategy is cracking on several fronts.
SallyT : Yes, Pink Ribbon, INC. is the title
ChrisR266 : KQ: Wow. Astute. Agreed.
SallyT : Do you know that the original ribbon wasn’t pink?
ChrisR266 : Sally: That’s ‘Pink Ribbons,” going nationwide tonight.
AdLib : Hey Sally!
choicelady : AdLib – to be utterly cynical, if these RW dames believe the screed, abortion causes breast cancer. If they want their megabucks, they’d be FOR abortion!
KQµårk 死神 : Actually the precedent Komen set with a charity eerily reminds me of the Citizen United decision.
SallyT : CL, I gave you a link on one of your comments to a trailer for a movie that a Canadian company put out on how fake Koman is.
ChrisR266 : This debacle couldn’t come at a worse time for SGKF. “Pink Ribbons” is going to blow their scheme wide open. about 10 million women are going to be really pissed next week.
Sabreen60 : Hi Sally!
AdLib : CL, if Komen hired Lieberman’s wife to lobby for them, isn’t that legal?
choicelady : Murph – you nailed it! The Big Circular Lie. And yeah, the base is too stupid to see it.
choicelady : Sally! Welcome! We are just discussing the Komen debacle.
KQµårk 死神 : Sally!
ChrisR266 : Hi Sally! Top of the evening to you.
Sabreen60 : Oh, the video is a FU to Komen.
SallyT : Hi, to all you fine people.
ChrisR266 : Murph: you are right, but this time, one of the beams in the trestle cracked and splintered. Men and Women by a few million decided that they didn’t want people in their uteri, bedrooms and their health care choices. I ABSOLUTELY LOVED this.
Sabreen60 : Oops. Here’s the link: «link»
AdLib : Chris – That is the irony about most causes, whether it’s the Palestinians’ quest for their own state or Komen’s alleged “race for the cure”, if they succeed, those who most benefit in power and money would lose everything.
Sabreen60 : Did anyone see this youtube video by the woman who is fighting breast cancer. It’s powerful.
MurphTheSurf3 : Komen cuts PP because they are being investigated. GOP legislatures create voter id regimens to deal with voter fraud. The House labels non job bills, job bills and wonders why the Senate will not take them up. Right to Work bills are passed to improve business but never do. All part of the pattern. LIE. The stupid, your base, won’t catch on.
choicelady : Sabreen – that’s GREAT!
ChrisR266 : Here’s the most insidious part of it all. If Breast cancer is controlled or cured, SGK has no reason for existence anymore. Nor would they be able to pay 31 employees over 200,000 per year to do their jobs…
Sabreen60 : CL, JC Penney put out a statement saying that Ellen will remain their spokesperson, period.
choicelady : es – if Komen spent that money lobbying, it’s flat out ILLEGAL. They do not have a 501-c-4. Hell MY organization has a c-4, and we’re tiny moneywise by comparison. It’s the LAW that foundations CANNOT use any of their money for political action, not advocacy, nothing.
escribacat : CL — agreed. There’s something else going on.
choicelady : es – This makes no sense. ACA would be outstanding for dealing with breast cancer. It would be GOOD for Komen Fdn. How did these bozos get so ideological? I can see if the VP is to the right of Attila the Hun she thought she could use Komen as her bully pulpit, but why’d the others go along with it?
ChrisR266 : Esc: Right! It’s going to come out that they spent money lobbying to keep poor women from getting even more help under the ACA.
KQµårk 死神 : CL you are right. Going corporate with the NYT really changed him.
ChrisR266 : Choice: Yep. He was interviewed quite extensively about his role as an executive search consultant. Indeed. Won’t say how much he is being paid…
choicelady : KQ – when Nate cleaned up, he got less reliable. He needs to grunge again. He’s made mistakes recently!
escribacat : In 2009, Komen lobbied behind the scenes to weaken the healthcare bill (ACA) as it was being debated in Congress. They hired Hadassah Lieberman, wife of Joe, in an effort to convince Joementum to vote against the Public Option. Komen spent over $1 million in 2008 & 2009, on behind-the-scene s lobbying related to the healthcare reform bill, so who knows what else was on their agenda.
escribacat : From the link Sally posted:
escribacat : Komen was apparently campaigning to weaken ACA
choicelady : Sorry – Fleischer. Dyslexia of the fingers…
AdLib : Sabreen – Brinker who runs it, is from the Bush Admin, Ari Fleischer vetted for their VP, their VP is a radical right religious zealot opposed to PP, gays, you name it. This is a religious right organization and it is now terminally corrupt. I think that’s clear to many now.
choicelady : Chris – Ari FLETCHER?????? WTF?
ChrisR266 : AdLib: Sorry, I should have read your post before I began furiously typing.
choicelady : Sabreen – that was the weasel wording. OK for 2012 – and they may ‘apply’ in 2013. What is the matter with these people? Speaking of anti-LGBT, JC Penney is under attack for have Ellen DeGeneris (sp?) as a spokeswoman. Everyone better write and uphold her – she’s charming. Who cares with whom she sleeps??? We don’t ask anyone else those questions!!!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ok. I am back. Got a call. Things are hopping with the GOP in Missouri….they REALLY hate Romney
ChrisR266 : Choice: They didn’t think. And now that it is apparent that Ari Fleishcer was involved in this recent “hiring” for the board and its infrastructure, so much of this makes sense. They really thought–blindly so as most ideologically driven right wingnuts do–that they’d do this and cause nary a wave.
KQµårk 死神 : I need to start following Nate Silver at fivethirtyeight again.
AdLib : Chris and CL – I sure hope so. They have apparently been plotting this for some time. Did you see that they hired Ari Fleischer to interview potential candidates for the VP slot that the RW PP hater got…and he questioned those he interviewed about PP!
KQµårk 死神 : Hey Sabreen you snuck in again.
choicelady : KQ – Me either. It’s important!
Sabreen60 : AdLib, I think so, especially after listening to the woman, I believe from NOW, who said that the Komen statement left the door open to funding PP after this year. The VP of Komen is also anti-gay.
choicelady : Chris – how in HELL did SGKF think they’d get away with this?
KQµårk 死神 : CL I wish I had more info. With all the redistricting and retirements I don’t have a clue.
ChrisR266 : Hi Sabreen.
choicelady : AdLib – I do think the bloom (pink) is off the Komen rose.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: Komen is DOA. “Pink Ribbons” opened tonight. Now all of their base will find out what really goes on and where the money really goes.
choicelady : Everyone – I agree – we could have a slew of nominations. Does anyone have a feel about how the Dems are working in the states on House and Senate seats? That is critical, just as important as Obama!
choicelady : Welcome back, Sabreen!
AdLib : So, onto another topic, what do you think of the about face by the Susan Komen Group? Have they ruined their brand permanently?
Sabreen60 : Hello to everyone I missed while I was away.
KQµårk 死神 : CL non-ideological moderate justices like Souter always get liberal on the SCOTUS because the Constitution is a liberal document.
AdLib : If Scalia would just go away, it would be doubly delicious.
AdLib : Breyer is 73 so he’s also up there, can’t lose him to a Repub either!
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib Exactly!
AdLib : Scalia and Kennedy are 75 but Ginsburg is 78 and has mentioned stepping down, can’t have a Repub replace her!
choicelady : ADLib – and I will live with a moderate justice, but someone grounded in LAW, not ideology! Look at all the conservatives who made very progressive rulings! People who revere the law often do.
ChrisR266 : Break moment. Be back in a few.
KQµårk 死神 : Exactly CL. Remember Romney was only moderate when pushed by liberals in MA. When he’s pushed by the GOPTEA congress he will acquiesce to them.
choicelady : Chris – hmmmm. I do see that, but hasn’t that always been true of corporate power, political bigwigs and the Supremes? They always live in the shadow of the uber rich. And often profit from it as Thomas has done with the Koch brothers. I’m not sure they mind – we need to be able to look at the SCOTUS members’ investments. Why should they be above disclosure?
AdLib : KQ – I know, hell, Goldwater would be more liberal than any of those Repubs running for the nom!
choicelady : KQ – I detested Reagan and think he WAS more liberal than Romney. How nauseating is THAT?
AdLib : CL – That’s kind of chilling but it sure seems on target. If Obama is elected, we can only hope that one of the Unholy Five SCOTUS retires. Imagine how many things in this country, including CU, could change with a moderate to Progressive majority!
ChrisR266 : Choice: I understand where you are coming from and what you are arguing. It is cogent and reasonable. But I think that they did not realize another effect: They left the door open for that group to become more powerful than they are. All men suffer–thankful ly–from ego when they realize that they just potentially kicked their own asses. Do you follow me?
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I read that article too and think it’s complete BS. This whole idea Roberts is for going back to a non-partisan approach to jurisprudence in a fairy tale.
choicelady : ADLib – I doubt Roberts really cares. He thinks as the other three ultra right ones do that America is meant to reward the elite. This is why I desperately want Obama four more years – we NEED a decent, legally based SCOTUS, not one that is driven by Dominionist sentiment and fantasies.
KQµårk 死神 : Chris I can’t get over that they would call Reagan more liberal than Romney now.
AdLib : Chris – I have heard some say that Roberts in particular may seek to address the negative, politicized perception of his court but I don’t think that’s possible. Like Bush, they have created a national disaster of huge proportions, those 5 men alone. He may have a conscience, I don’t know but I can guarantee that Scalia and Thomas are just fine about how they’ve further wrecked our democracy.
choicelady : Murph – I agree the real Occupy people have moved on. Glad they came back to you!
ChrisR266 : AdLib: And agreed, this is what I find so ironic about the right’s memory sanitization of the Reagan legacy. I’m just gobsmacked by their complete inability to acknowledge that the man and the administration was human, let alone flawed.
choicelady : Chris – I have to disagree. They have an agenda, and it is to elevate the most conservative and religiously extreme people to unequal power. Their rulings – and Citizens is the tip of the iceberg – have favored religious groups over the rights of citizens to get tax credits, and have all been toward corporate power over people. They are philosophically very smart even if they are some of the WORST legal minds I’ve ever seen.
ChrisR266 : Let us not give the right on the court too much credit in the intellectual rigor arena. They DID NOT think this through for one minute. They’re balls are hanging out right now.
AdLib : Chris – Yes, I remember an all out press by the Reagan Admin to bury and minimize Iran-Contra. They did win to a degree at the time with many escaping justice but his Presidency remains horribly tainted (to those who aren’t worshiping Republicans) because of that outrage.
choicelady : AdLib – speaking for only the four SCOTUS justices about whom I know anything, no. They welcome the elevation of embedded inequality in the hands of corporations. While they are Catholic, they are “ultramontagne ” Catholics who have made a pact with the devil, the New Apostolic Reformation. They agree that there is an “Elect” in the world – those who are born again and bow to the rich and powerful – and they deserve to triumph. The Church hates this view but won’t censure these four since they are too powerful.
escribacat : Adlib — apparently uber conservative John Yoo thinks Roberts and Kennedy will go with the progressives on the court and uphold ACA..partly because of Citizens United.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…the real Occupy organizers and activists have moved Occupy to other encampments, on line, in courts, in political action…..we were very impressed that the four came back to us.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: I think SCOTUS sees it, and we might see them trying to balance the damage by swinging a bit more middle middle/left in some subsequent decisions this year. They’ve got to be crapping their pants. BECAUSE now it has gone way beyond anything their little minds imagined.
choicelady : Murph – wow. Given my experience this week, that is terrific news. I see lots of good things happening from Occupy movements that are moving on to focus around projects and issues. Just not Oakland and Sacramento. Only thing Occupy Sacramento does is sleep on the City Hall lawn. All five of them.
AdLib : CL – The only way to undo economic injustice in this nation is to get the wealthy to put more of their money back into the country they’re taking so much from. So, whether voluntarily through futile political pursuits or the Buffet Rule and paying 30%, works for me. As you say though, we can do without the CU situation. BTW, do Roberts and any of the other 5 SCOTUS jerks who brought this upon us, see what they have wrought and cringe at their horrible decision? The damage those 5 men have done is widely on display, do they not have any conscience for how they have damaged our democracy?
KQµårk 死神 : Chris I remember that time well. That’s the first time I got politically active at all.
choicelady : KQ – but at the door hanger and printing level and even the local outlet level, there are lots of people getting small jobs they’d otherwise not have. It’s actually funny when you think about it – lots of the low level operatives are probably liberal!
MurphTheSurf3 : Had a conference call a few days ago with four Occupy organizers who are belatedly accepting that the wisdom offered before Christmas by the old hands re. their long term agenda should have gotten more of their attention.
ChrisR266 : KQ: There was an interesting study published by Ed Schiappa in the late 80s or early 90s about the rhetoric of strategic leaking on the part of the presidential administration. He looked specifically at the Reagan Administraiton and how they used leaks to distract everyone from the arms deal with Iran (remember Oliver North?).
KQµårk 死神 : Plus on the right most money will go to Faux News and rich operative getting richer.
choicelady : Chris – AdLib – I get it now. Needless to say (or maybe it’s not) I have paid NO attention to international stuff given the holy hell of my own backyard. Talk about narrowing one’s focus. If it weren’t for all of you I’d never know ANYTHING.
KQµårk 死神 : Oh absolutely CL. The negatives are far worse than the positives. It’s a truly unintended consequence.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: I agree, and it is the right move.
choicelady : KQ and AdLib – I LOVE that the Koch money will go to local folks and provide jobs! I have to say that while I’m not sanguine about the impact of money, the fact that the Kochs bet the farm on WI and OH and LOST BIG TIME makes me think we can do very well with very good ads strategically placed. Does NOT mean we let go of righting the wrong of Citizens United, but I do think we have more power than we know.
ChrisR266 : KQ: That’s why they’re controlling the story. They need to to send messages and put the pressure on Israel.
AdLib : Chris and CL – Yes, because Panetta is the source, I see this as a way to touch two bases, invoke the threat of attack on Iran (playing good cop, bad cop) and showing that we are on the same team as Israel. I see this as a game of high stakes poker and I think it’s a powerful move yet kind of a bluff…and a good one.
KQµårk 死神 : Bill Maher bashing OWS now
KQµårk 死神 : CL you are absolutely right about the leak. I’m sure Obama is furious with Israel.
ChrisR266 : Bing is icky.
choicelady : Chris – yes. Bing.
KQµårk 死神 : And you know the $1 billion plus the Dems put in will go to local printers and stuff even more.
ChrisR266 : Choice: BING? ewwwwww.
choicelady : Chris – I did not see Google. Gives me the creeps! Bing was here before 7 our time. TWO of them crawling!
KQµårk 死神 : Another thing Romney is fighting is he says Obama does not work with our allies. Yet the pentagon announcing that we are speeding withdrawal from Iran is in line with what the allies want. Actually Romney sounded petty with his who attack on leaving Afghanistan earlier.
AdLib : KQ – So true, with the Kochs pouring $100 million or more into the race and others pouring in a total of maybe a billion on the GOP side, that money will ironically be spent locally in many states and boost income and jobs. They’re helping “Obama’s” economy by trying to defeat him!
ChrisR266 : Ok, google’s gone… Back to the drinking and partying!
choicelady : AdLib – If Panetta leaked the Israeli stuff, there’s a reason. I know him slightly (and he pretends to know me – he doesn’t) and have found him always credible. Then I feel better because if it’s WH strategy, I’m more comfortable with it even if I can’t see why. Yeah – I trust them.
ChrisR266 : Who the hell let google back in here? Sheesh.
ChrisR266 : Choice: Yes. That’s what I mean. Old lesson, but true and accurate lesson.
choicelady : Chris – you mean that corporations are finally -FINALLY – figuring out what Henry Ford knew over a century ago? You have to pay people or they don’t consume your stuff? Yeah – all this offshoring and downsizing and pushing wages down has an impact – and it’s NOT GOOD for BUSINESS. Which is precisely what the book Global Reach said – in 1973!!!!
KQµårk 死神 : Cheers surf nothing against you, just can’t tell with them
ChrisR266 : AdLib and Esc: Panetta’s leak was strategic. Now they control the story and its evolution, not the GOP.
KQµårk 死神 : The ironic part to me is the $3 billion plus this campaign is going to cost is going to actually help the economy.
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ Serious. There was the fellow who exposed the Apple China work conditions, then the panel of Orman, Lazio, and Moore, and now the Rolling Stones Afghan specialist
AdLib : Escrib – True but Panetta was the one who leaked this. Why? Doesn’t it seem tactical as opposed to his being a nice guy and giving Iran a heads up?
choicelady : ADLib – I find this discussion of Israeli bombing very odd. I don’t know the origination, but it STINKS of provocation to Obama to stand up and declare solidarity with Israel no matter what. I smell a set up.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib this saber rattling between Israel, Iran and the US has been going on for over 30 years.
ChrisR266 : KQ: Here’s the rub: the big money is going to hedge its bets by donating to GOP candidate(s), but they also realize that they can’t make this recession thing go on any longer. They put their sorry asses between a rock and a hard place. Now they really are suffering profits because they’ve been sabtogaging.
KQµårk 死神 : Surf are you being serious or sarcastic? I can’t tell with Maher.
choicelady : Thanks for the link, KQ – that is SUPER news! And let’s thank Mrs. O and Mrs (Dr.) B.? Those two very cool women made this their top priority.
escribacat : Adlib, Israel bombed the Iraq nuke site back in the 80s.
AdLib : On Israel, I do agree that this threat is being done as a tactic, to pressure Iran to come to the table for talks. Would Israel openly bomb Iran? I think it’s less likely. Might Iran feel cornered and do something stupid? Possibly but here too, I think finding a way to diffuse things will be their focus too.
MurphTheSurf3 : Really mature discussion on Real Time tonight.
escribacat : The KOch conference just promised $200 million to fight Obama
KQµårk 死神 : Actually today’s drop makes the unemployment rate for all vets 7.5%. That’s huge.
ChrisR266 : Hi Sabreen!
escribacat : CL — I loved that little piece about the door kicking
choicelady : Hey Sabreen! Lovely to see you!
KQµårk 死神 : It was on ThinkProgress here’s the link. «link»
choicelady : Chris – LOL!! I never forget the photoshopped “announcement” about bin Laden with Obama supposedly walking offstage and kicking the door open! Phony but funny! He has cojones OK.
ChrisR266 : Murph: Romney doesn’t mingle, play, speak, relate, understand, persuade, posture, or anything well on the public level.
escribacat : Hi Sabreen
AdLib : Hey Sabreen!
Sabreen60 : Hi folks!
escribacat : I’ve always felt confident that Obama will win
choicelady : KQ – that is marvelous news! Now if someone could come down my alley and do the same for the Vietnam vets…
escribacat : KQ — that’s huge
ChrisR266 : KQ: In some ways, I think the electorate will be more determined to stay the course with Obama if overseas events blow up. He’s proven his balls in this arena, the others haven’t.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I thought here and Callista could be sisters.
KQµårk 死神 : The best part about today’s jobs numbers was unemployment for Iraq and Afghanistan war vets was down a whopping 6%.
AdLib : CL – The woman who runs Komen looks like a walking advertisement for the RW GOP. When she came out to do damage control, she lied lack a typical Repub. She did a lot of damage just by trying to quell the controversy. Agreed, I am not donating one more penny to these frauds.
MurphTheSurf3 : I suspect Romney has always been a poor communicator on the personal level. That is his reputation. So much of successful informal interviewing is the candidate communicating “on a personal level with the electorate. He just does not do it well. Romney does not mingle well.
choicelady : es – yes I did see Sally’s link. What is the MATTER with people? If I boycotted some event the Catholic church had something to do with because of their horrific child molestation response, you’d never hear the end of it.
ChrisR266 : Choice: There’s so much flying around about SGKF, we need a dedicated time to talk about just it.
KQµårk 死神 : Oh Chris I hope like you he does handle it. I was just using it as a possible disaster.
escribacat : CL — did you check out that link that Sally posted? There’s a really interesting background story about Komen
choicelady : AdLib – I think Mitt has done himself incalculable damage with his comments. He has terminal foot-in-mouth disease.
ChrisR266 : KQ: I must respectfully disagree. If Israel blows it, Obama will handle it. The rest of them will be spouting off and sound like idiots.
KQµårk 死神 : To me his lies about the president makes him just as bad as any of them.
choicelady : AdLib – never did donate to Koman, but I heard they suddenly have taken back or not given the usual $12 million to Johns Hopkins, one of the premier cancer research centers, because some unit of JH does stem cell research. So no – find another place to donate. They did NOT actually say they’d fund PPFA – just that they would not DEfund them this year. Weasel words.
escribacat : isn’t
escribacat : I hope Israel is “timing” their event to manipulate our elections
KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely AdLib. I really think Romney is toast unless something big happens like Israel attacks Iran.
escribacat : Just less repulsive than the rest of them.
escribacat : Adlib, I always thought he was a rich uncaring jerk.
ChrisR266 : AdLib: Is that the CAP question to begin the evening?
escribacat : Chris — midwest always gets worse snow than we do.
choicelady : Chris – gladly take the rain off your hands. Or head. We are below 50% of normal. Some is predicted for next week, but we shall see.
AdLib : So, has Romney cemented his image this week as a rich, uncaring jerk?
ChrisR266 : Esc: OH-IO Columbus area.
escribacat : CL–it’s pretty unusual. We have fairly mild winters here
KQµårk 死神 : We will never donate to Konen the Barbarian again. But it’s hard not to by good products when you shop for things you ‘need’.
choicelady : es – well, good luck. I saw how hard it had snowed in that area. It’s beautiful, but…
escribacat : Chris — where are you?
ChrisR266 : Choice: You can have some of our rain. We’ve had a reprieve this week, but it’s coming back Sunday.
escribacat : I’m between Boulder and denver…It took a long time to shovel this morning!
ChrisR266 : Esc: we had 2 1/2 feet on the ground this time last year. So far this year we’ve had only a trace.
choicelady : es – where ARE you? I hope you’re not snowed in. Unless you have everything you need. Clearly you have power!
AdLib : So, to be ethical, do we stop buying products from Dell and Apple and stop contributing to the Susan Komen fund?
escribacat : KQ — Good, they can have the poisonous dog food now
KQµårk 死神 : I saw where India passed the US as China’s biggest trading partner.
choicelady : Chris – I’m so glad it’s nice! It’s nice here, too. We hate it. We need the rain!
escribacat : Chris — yep.
escribacat : CL — Me too.
ChrisR266 : Esc: A foot? Are you in the Rocky Mountain High?
KQµårk 死神 : As long as Asia will provide virtual slave labor there will be less manufacturing in all Western countries.
AdLib : Cheers Chris!
AdLib : Escrib – I don’t know why I didn’t put the pieces together before about Dell, he’s TX based and a corporate CEO…the odds weren’t in our favor.
choicelady : AdLbi – OMG – that donation list is horrible! And we helped him PAY for that! Well, when this thing dies, no more Dells!
escribacat : I’ve got over a foot of snow today!!
ChrisR266 : Evening, AdLib. You’re looking smart tonight.
ChrisR266 : Hi Choice! The weather has been balmy and lovely. A wonderful sunny 50 today.
AdLib : Hey Chris!!!
escribacat : Adlib — OMG, that’s a nasty list
KQµårk 死神 : I’m on fire now I’ve got addicted to tweeting.
choicelady : Hi Chris! How’s the weather back there (“back” being entirely self focused, sorry!)
MurphTheSurf3 : S Cat…really torn on this…been an apple user since 1976
AdLib : Escrib – I have Dells too but I won’t buy anymore.
ChrisR266 : Hi ya, KQ. Looking snappy tonight.
KQµårk 死神 : Hiya Chris!
choicelady : AdLib and Murph – we have one Dell. I did NOT know that! At work we have iMacs. Did not know about Apple’s use of nearly slave labor. KQ is right – can one mix one’s morality and still buy hardware?
ChrisR266 : Good evening, everyone. Hope the eve of the weekend finds you all well and happy.
AdLib : Escrib – Check out this donation list by Dell, he contributes to the worst of the worst: «link»
escribacat : Murphy — the Apple situation is pretty bad. I can see why you feel that way.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL….the situation sickens me and Apple is completely unapologetic.
KQµårk 死神 : But maybe that’s the silver lining.
KQµårk 死神 : If you bought products based on principle you would own none.
choicelady : es – I have to think it is the same woman. That was too weird not to be her. She? Whatever.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…thanks I will.
AdLib : Murph – It’s becoming quite an obstacle course, trying to buy good electronic products without going against one’s principles!
choicelady : KQ – that issue and the aftermath have kept me at the Capitol all week. I’ve gone to each of the five senators and apologized to their staff people. I’m glad I did it – it was exhausting and emotionally draining. They were HURT and it takes a LOT for that to happen.
escribacat : Adlib — I didn’t know Michael Dell was RW…I think I’ve got 4 Dells in thehouse!
KQµårk 死神 : Yeah cat that was some story.
escribacat : CL — hard to believe we’ve tangled with the same horrid creature
KQµårk 死神 : Hey cat great to see you on VP.
choicelady : excat! How are you? I’m still gloating over “pre-vindicatin g” you with the bitch!
AdLib : Hey Escribacat!!!
AdLib : Murph – First of all, I have sworn off of Dell because it’s run by a hard RW. Check our Lenovo and Toshiba.
KQµårk 死神 : Ugh CL that’s the worse. Loved your piece on CA single payer even though it was a sad indictment of progressive politics.
choicelady : Murph – I’d stick with what you have. What’s done is done. I’m not so sure any other company is any better really.
escribacat : Hi PPOV folks!
choicelady : KQ – I can sympathize. Yesterday our refrigerator died. Came home to thawed everything. Gave some food to neighbors on disability, but at 6:30 this morning, I was shoveling out thawed fish and shrimp. CANNOT leave that too long! Got it fixed this afternoon, but the cupboard is bare. What a waste of good food.
AdLib : Obama is beating Romney in MI and OH! And is ahead in FL in some polls, I think Obama can sweep them.
KQµårk 死神 : Everything’s fine just busy Friday.
MurphTheSurf3 : ALL….before I foget…I am a Macintosh user. I am so unhappy with Apple’s China labor situation that I am looking to move from Mac to a PC but I have lots of files and compatibility is an issue. Ideas?
AdLib : Hope all is well, KQ!
AdLib : That sounds about right. I think Obama will win by 5%-6%, a landslide in modern politics.
choicelady : AdLib – Gallup used to be the gold standard but no more. The power of the merger is entirely monetary, not about cred.
KQµårk 死神 : Hi back, been a busy day for me.
AdLib : USA Today/Gallup and Right Wing Rasmussen showed a tie but PPP and NBC/WSJ give Obama +5 and +6.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…the parties really want to look democratic, but not necessary be democratic. Until the 70’s most conventions were insider jobs.
choicelady : Murph – that is just weird. When states diverge so greatly in method, it makes me question the entire process.
choicelady : AdLib – whose poll was that? I believe there are polling firms running around that basically know nothing about the process. Probably ask their Great Aunt Tilly and call it done.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL Texas designates half its delegates by primary and half by caucus on the same day. Really favors the central committees.
AdLib : BTW, that poll out today, showing a tie between Romney and Obama was an outlier, Obama has been ahead of Romney consistently and after this week, it will be an even bigger lead.
choicelady : Murph – ahhhh. All is now revealed. I admit as one who has lived always in primary based states, I do NOT get the caucus system.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…the primary is advisory….the caucus designates delegates.
choicelady : Hey KQ – GREAT to see you!
AdLib : Hey KQ!!!
KQµårk 死神 : Hiyo!
AdLib : CL – My pleasure!
choicelady : Murph – how do they rationalize Newt if he’s not even running?
AdLib : Murph – That sounds very intriguing! The more obstacles that can be thrown in Romney’s path, the more he’ll damage himself.
choicelady : Thank you, dear AdLib, for posting it for me. I was swamped and could NOT have done it without you! GREAT photo, too!
AdLib : Hey CL! How are you this evening? May I say, excellent article today?
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad LIb….since I do not measure time in relationship to any professional sport event…..such questions have little meaning…apprec iate your asking. Doing ok. Spent part of the day with a GOP insider who says he thinks the Mo. state caucus was going to go with Gingrich even though he is not on the Tues beauty contest primary. That would be great.
choicelady : Hi! Good to see you, AdLib and Murph! I see others up in the balcony. Must be eating popcorn before coming down?
AdLib : And Romney’s nursing his wounds from not being concerned about poor people.
AdLib : Looks like Obama’s gotten off to a nice weekend with the jobs numbers.
AdLib : Hey Murph! How re you this fine pre=Superbowl Friday?
MurphTheSurf3 : HI!
AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive!
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!