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AdLib On January - 27 - 2012
  • AdLib : Heh! Take car KQ and sleep well. Thanks to you and Sally and everyone else for a rousing edition of Vox Populi! See you on The Planet and hopefully here again next Friday night!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Alright my head is starting to feel like your gravatar AdLib. Take care good night.

  • AdLib : KQ – You’re right, even if Obama wins big over Romney as I think he will, I would see 6% as a huge margin of victory.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally what AdLib said. I could not have said it better.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally I would never presume to tell you which side is good or bad but I will give you my opinion when I come up with it some day. ;-)

  • AdLib : Sally – It’s far too complex for there to be a good or bad guy. Historically, there are good arguments that can be made for why each has validity in their conflict. Bottom line for me as of right now though is that the Palestinians, who do have terrorists and terrible people marbled among good and suffering people, are being horribly oppressed by the Israelis out of fear. There are extremists on both sides who are hateful and prejudiced but the majority of both want peace. As here in he US, a minority of extremists seem to dictate for the majority of Israelis and Palestinians and have a vested interest in keeping the conflict going because without it, they would lose power.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sleep well Sally.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Agreed AdLib no matter what is holding them back you would hope they consider things in a reasonable manner. I just don’t think in this political environment a Dem could win by more than 8-10% like in the 60’s and before that.

  • SallyT : Good night KQ. See on here later!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yes and part of that control is for 35-40% (just an arbitrary range of figures) of those type of people that would never ever consider voting for a Democrat. If they did consider voting Dem they would admit they cannot control their lives.

  • SallyT : I still want you guys to tell me if Irasel is the good guy always and Palestine are the bad guys. I need you to debate that for me sometime.

  • AdLib : KQ – In the end, I am hoping that the election this year will be a referendum on ignorance and I think Americans will reject it.

  • AdLib : We’re right with ya, Sally! Sleep well!

  • SallyT : And, you both have left me behind. So, I will call it an evening and leave you two.

  • AdLib : KQ – Right, I see what you’re saying! There is tht control issue on the right and the left, on the left we have politically correct people and Emoprogs, on the right you have fascists.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Agreed AdLib we are talking about different aspects of the same phenomenon. It is interesting how people get to the same philosophy from different angles though.

  • AdLib : KQ – It’s semantics as to what it’s called but we’re agreed. People do compartmentalize and can be hypocritical with no awareness of it. People can be against racism but be prejudiced against a different religion, believe in science but believe in Creationism, etc. There are those who are truly ignorant then there are those who wall off an area of their mind from critical thought because of their need to believe something.

  • SallyT : And, you don’t buy things on time unless it is farm equipment.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The best analogy I can think of is how a scientist like a chemist wants to understand nature. That’s a big part of our motivation. Whereas chemical engineers who are usually more conservative have a desire to control nature like the flow and other physical behaviors of chemicals.

  • SallyT : I know my parents thought you should have one credit card for emergrancy but no more.

  • SallyT : I think to many of the people that made it through the depression weren’t around anymore to say, “HEY! BECAREFUL!”

  • AdLib : Sally – Good point and I think that instead of greed, it was that brain washing that helped cause people to get upside down in their home through borrowing. I think many were thinking, “It finally happened! The American dream finally happened for me and this is the money I get to have and spend!” The Depression generation likely made up a small percentage of that, I’ll bet many older folk still owe little on their homes.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Exactly and I can’t call that scientist ignorant because they know the facts behind evolution. Now you can call ignoring facts ignorance but it’s a little different than that. I still think it’s more of a need for some people to rationalize everything around them to fit into nice tiny compartments. That’s why I think control is such an issue with most conservatives.

  • AdLib : there

  • AdLib : KQ – As a scientist, you can appreciate that their are some scientists who also believe in Creationism. These are people who are very intelligent but as you say, they have a blind spot when it comes to certain things. I would suggest that it is a perfect illustration of the difference between being unintelligent and being ignorant.

  • SallyT : AdLib, many people were fooled in thinking they were making it by 2nd mortgages on their homes. They never were going to make that lump sum ever in a paycheck.

  • KQµårk 死神 : See AdLib to me that’s not ignorance viewing the world through the pursuit of money and power. That to me is a choice they make. The primal part is the need for control people like Romney have.

  • AdLib : Sally – And people are brainwashed with “The American Dream” and “In America, if you work hard enough, you too could be a millionaire!” As I mentioned earlier, the odds are 99.9% against any typical American being a millionaire…an d yet many believe it without having the slightest idea of how it could happen for them despite the odds.

  • KQµårk 死神 : IDK I know the difference between ignorance and just not being intelligent. But there is a special blind spot with some people who have incredible intelligence. I think it really is a core belief to them for whatever reason and they spin their world toward that belief even knowing the real world at some level.

  • AdLib : Sally – Yep, the GOP deals with everything through money-colored glasses. Romney will probably agree to pay off Newt’s campaign debts or something and Newt will be there, smiling beside Romney an attacking the “Food Stamp President”. But deep down, he will be snarling at how he was stabbed in the back by his party and sliced apart by Romney and his money.

  • SallyT : There was a time when everyone thought they could be the Charlie Sheen character in Wall Street.

  • SallyT : But, I see your point, AdLib. They will apease him somehow.

  • AdLib : KQ – Delusion seems to me to be based on ignorance. Certainly, fear can be a motivator but a several years ago, a majority of entitled-minded college graduates believed they would be millionaires…j ust because they had such high opinions of themselves. No fear, just ignorance.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I thought that would happen earlier than later AdLib but remember this was the guy that held up the budget out of spite because Clinton put him in the back of AF1.

  • SallyT : He sure seemed hot at that one gathering. Didn’t have anything good to say about the establishment/GO P.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally Newt is beyond pissed and he might just keep running out of spite.

  • AdLib : Newt may be pissed at the GOP but they will throw him a bone, at least offering him money in some way through consulting or something and he’ll come together with Romney at the convention. It will be the most uncomfortable thing for an egoist like Newt though and will be well worth the price of admission to see his forced smile at Romney.

  • KQµårk 死神 : True AdLib and there are the low level delusions and hither lever ones. But they are all based on primal fears and control issues.

  • SallyT : AdLib and KQ, will Newt get pissed at the GOP?

  • AdLib : KQ – It is easy just to delude oneself. “Hey, ROmney wants me to be a millionaire too! Don’t have to consider how few people ever become millionaires or how it could happen to a truck driver like me, that’s what I want to believe so it’s true!”

  • KQµårk 死神 : All I can tell you about Israel is with the Lukid party and Netanyahu in charge they are even more right wing when it comes to war than the GOP.

  • SallyT : You can tell that there are people out there that you can’t reach like that old lady still believing Obama is a Muslim.

  • AdLib : BTW, Intrade has Romney with a 91% chance of winning FL. The wheels really came off of Newt in the last debate, I think he’s finished but he served his purpose well…for Dems!

  • KQµårk 死神 : It’s all the same family of mental processes AdLib. The ironic part is it takes much more brain power to rationalize because you have to fool your own senses.

  • SallyT : I know Irasel is brought up all the time. Every debate, too.

  • AdLib : KQ – The GOP is one big delusional machine for the many and cash machine for the 1%.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally I am a total neophyte compared to Khirad on the middle east.

  • AdLib : It’s a deal, Sally, I’ll do the best I can.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The whole GOP is one big rationalizing machine.

  • SallyT : Okay, you two, I am serious that one night you two and Khirad educate me in Israel and Palestine.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally never assume the conservative mind is logical. That’s the mistake liberals always make about them.

  • AdLib : Just for your amusement, Intrade has Obama with nearly a 55% chance of re-election…an d he hasn’t even started his full campaign! He will be re-elected but we will have to work hard to fight against the hundreds of millions the 1% will use to defeat him.

  • SallyT : I agree, AdLib. I just can’t understand why there would be more that would want to go backwards.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Of course the other side will say all Obama’s policies failed if the economy flatlines during the election too.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I guess that’s why my mind says if Obama does win it’s by allot.

  • SallyT : I know he had been the Gov of CA but most of the country still saw him as “Win one for the Gibber.” sp???

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally absolutely and that’s why he’s revered so much today. Because he accomplished very little.

  • AdLib : Sally – Look at what the GOP is stuck with, they want to strip out regulations from the very people who destroyed the economy and took away the jobs and home equity from many Americans. They want insurance companies to be free to have control again over Americans. They want the wealthy to pay less taxes, the poor to pay more and the middle class to get virtually nothing. How can you run on that and win? You can’t so they’ll have to fabricate an Obama they can attack and all that negative campaigning, which is all they have, will also help sink them.

  • SallyT : Sometimes I think that there were people that voted for Reagan because he was a movie star and liked the roles he played.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Actually I’m saying Obama is like Reagan. He is personally popular.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh Sally I’m trying to get in their heads too not yours.

  • SallyT : But Romney is no Reagan.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The last election like this where the incumbent did not turn the economy around at this point was 1984 with Reagan and his personal popularity was high. I think this could be allot like that election. For some reason I see Obama winning in a virtual landslide or losing. I don’t know why.

  • SallyT : I know KQ, I am not arguing with you just with them.

  • AdLib : All the trends are in the right direction and Obama’s numbers rise with them. If they continue and there is a general sense in the financial community that they will, barring a European economic disaster or elsewhere, Obama will be golden. Especially against a pro-Bush policy loser like Romney.

  • SallyT : So they want to give it back to the guys that caused the bank mess and threaten more wars?

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally the electorate has the attention span of a gnat. Even so most people do see Bush as the one who made the economy fail. They just are not sure yet if Obama did enough to turn it around yet.

  • SallyT : What Repub Presdent balanced the budget?

  • AdLib : Romney can’t even find a way to appeal to those not in the 1% in his own party! So how is he going to appeal to indies? He will flip flop again and put on a new persona as a moderate but the footage from the primary will only expose the charade.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I’m with you I’m really trying to see how Romney could appeal to anyone but rich Republicans and I can’t. But I think that’s a problem.

  • AdLib : KQ – Agree and I think Obama’s stand on the 1% paying their fair share, as much as the white working class and ROmney trying to present the 1% as entitled to privilege, will burn Romney with indies.

  • KQµårk 死神 : To me Obama has to expose Romney for the elitist he is and just stop some of the hemorrhaging of the white working class with Dems.

  • AdLib : I truly don’t see any substance to Romney and I don’t think most do. Even with an economy weakening, what case can Romney make to say things will be better for anyone other than the top 1%? If his credibility is hammered and destroyed, as it should be, he is disarmed from presenting anything that could be respected or believed. That’s why I think hammering his dishonesty and hollowness is primary for Obama.

  • SallyT : Can’t independents see how we got into this mess? Can’t they see that it is going to take time to get it turned? Cant they see we are not falling back but moving forward. And can’t they see Romney would do just that, take us back?

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally I wish I knew but keep in mind allot of them are ex-Republican moderates so I hate to say things like balancing the budget are important to them.

  • SallyT : Okay, if you two are staying with me. Tell me what do Independents want in a President?

  • AdLib : KQ – Yep, I was and remain a big fan of Dean but Rahm despised him, wanting to take all the credit for Obama’s and the Dem’s wins in 2008 for himself so Dean was treated badly and tossed aside, with no involvement in the party or Obama Admin. Would like to see him in there somewhere.

  • AdLib : Night Cher, say hello to your hubby for me and have a great weekend!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely AdLib DWS is a quantum leap better of course Dean was a pioneer though.

  • AdLib : Night Chris, sleep well!

  • AdLib : Chris – I am in complete agreement with you! Howard Dean made it possible for Obama to win and the Dem party to win huge victories in 2008. I do think Debbie Wasserman Schultz is doing a good job (far better than that DLC loser Tim Kaine who only helped the Repubs win in 2010).

  • SallyT : KQ and AdLib, you guys staying or going.

  • SallyT : Goodnight Cher and Chris.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Dunno AdLib we would truly be in uncharted territory.

  • Chernynkaya : Guys, hubby is calling for some company. I must regretfully say goodnight. Be good!

  • ChrisR266 : Well, must sign off all. Have a wonderful, relaxing weekend.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I really think the right has to really split for that to happen AdLib but that is a possibility. Without Paul the GOP could split to teabagger libertatian and GOP establishment.

  • AdLib : KQ – The economy is important but I think it’s more of a pundit thing to say that it depends on the economy. Will most indies trust Romney to look out for their interests just because the economy doesn’t continue as desired? I think it is far more about having an unacceptable alternative and that’s what Romney is. Even with a weakened economy, I think Obama beats Romney.

  • Chernynkaya : AL, I too share the belief sometimes that we will look back at this time and say, “What the fuck was THAT all about?!” It will seem like one of our bad times, and it will seem impossible to comprehend.

  • SallyT : True, Chris. But, Gingrich has other baggage. He does seem to get pass most, tho

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cher I’m with you. I still see too many independents buying the GOP schtick.

  • ChrisR266 : Sally: Indeed, but he doesn’t see himself as the same, no one was ragging on him in the 90s. I really think he sees himself as another Clinton, teflon.

  • AdLib : KQ – The GOP could be hammered down enough to become a minority party though. Fox will still appeal to those but just as Glenn Beck had his day in the sun, Fox News too could lose its attraction to anyone other than the RW extremists and though there might be 35% of them moving forward, it could be that they become more of a minority party.

  • SallyT : KQ, it is and that makes me nervous.

  • Chernynkaya : Well, to me the polling is not that clear. I see the polls that seem to show that the public is waking up, bu then i see polls–like the one saying 56% want us to bomb Iran–that give me pause. As I said, polls always say the public like something and then they vote the opposite. So I’m agnostic on polls.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Such is exactly why I have been desperately calling for Howard Dean to come back to the DNC chair. He figured it out in 2008, and funneled all efforts into a 50 state strategy, focusing on the House and Senate. That’s what must happen again.

  • SallyT : Chris, but Gingrich was doing the same thing at the same time so he was a hippo and crete.

  • KQµårk 死神 : It still all depends on the economy AdLib. It has to keep on getting better and it’s still fragile as hell.

  • AdLib : Cher – The polling is clear, the public has strongly turned against the Repubs in Congress and the majority strongly blames them for things not working in DC. This has slammed their popularity in generic polls against Dems and they are confronting a reality of losing the House if this trend stays in place or continues.

  • ChrisR266 : Sally: Remember, The Lewinsky fiasco taught Gingrich that his “failings” didn’t matter. He just might get desperate enough to fling that out there. I can’t wait.

  • Chernynkaya : AL, from you lips to God’s ears. I want to believe that, and it’s certainly plausible.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I hope you are right but with the right wing echo chamber and Faux News I don’t see that happening.

  • Chernynkaya : I see that Obama has learned a lot in his first 2 years. His original advisers are gone–Gethner soon too–and he’s come into his own. The old DLC folks are gone.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: yeah, they know it, they realize it, but the House is is under no one’s control, and the Senate is GOP moribund. They can’t get out of their own behavioral trainwreck.

  • SallyT : Clinton’s good has bee over shadowed by Bush’s 8 years of bad! and Let me correct myself it would have been 16 years of DEMS. Sorry.

  • AdLib : Cher – However, look at what happened soon after FDR with Congress, there was no pendulum, Dems held it for 25 years. I think we could have the same model. The Dems rescue the nation from the destruction wrought by the wealthy and their GOP and that will be remembered for some time. What an easy campaign to make for years, “Do you want to return to the days of doom and gloom that the GOP brought you?”

  • Chernynkaya : I like the LOTR analogy!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally I think about that and worry about succession in 2016 even if Obama wins with Biden as VP.

  • ChrisR266 : Sally: I agree. Clinton did a hell of a lot right, and no one seems to be able to see that right now. He paved the way, and Obama has been astute enough to learn from it.

  • Chernynkaya : I’ve read some article positing that the repubs are starting to realize that their obstruction is working against them.

  • SallyT : Regardless of your opinion of Clinton personally, if you stop and think about it, and FL had been called right that would have been 8 terms of DEMS and think where we might be.

  • AdLib : Chris – Not at all, that is very good allegory and I wouldn’t be surprised if King wasn’t presenting an allegory of the 1980’s GOP in The Stand. I would even throw out the Lord of the Rings allegory, where the wealthy and corporations are Sauron, the big eye controlling people to fight against their own and commanding evil armies to conquer. And Obama then would be akin to Frodo, someone of good heart and intentions, trying to dispose of the evil and by doing so, protect the people from domination. That’s kind of corny, I know, but the stakes are pretty huge.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: That is why the battle must be for the House and Senate.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Ahhhh. Great minds melding once again.

  • KQµårk 死神 : But really can they block forever as a political strategy. If they can then the soul of the nation is just as broke.

  • SallyT : I agree Cher, we have to prepare ahead.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: And that is exactly why they must go down in flames in 2012. The work must focus on the House and the Senate. That is the real battle.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris–I agree. In fact, we both wrote similar things at the same time.

  • AdLib : Sally – But the Repubs will continue to try and block his success because it will expose them as the enemies of most Americans in trying to stop things from getting better. And they’ll be worried that a successful Obama means a Dem wins in 2016. So, if the Dems sweep this year, that filibuster rule needs to be modified to allow the Dems to govern. If they can and they pass Progressive legislation, they will prove it superior to the failed trickle down policies and should be able to retain power for some time to come.

  • Chernynkaya : AL, I hold the pendulum theory. After 8 good years of Obama, who knows. I agree logically, but I also think we’d better start gorooming/lookin g around. Look what happened to the GOP when you don’t plan ahead.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup and if a guy without a soul can win, it tells you America has no soul. Of course the other side thinks Obama has no soul because he’s an AA.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Exactly Cher we both agree on that for sure.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: I hope you don’t think this too obscure or smarmy of a reference, but I think of what’s going on right now as akin to the epic nature of the battle in one of Stephen King’s early books, The Stand. What we are battling is epic–the soul of a nation–but the battle is well engaged, and November will tell where we will land.

  • Chernynkaya : I think in any sane country, Obama would be unbeatable–inde ed lionized! But there are very dark forces against us, and there are citizens here who are either stupid, evil, or both. For me this election is a referendum on America itself.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’m also not counting the totally disenfranchised left they are never coming back but they were never really with Obama either. People forget people on the left like GG, Moore, Maher, KO don’t vote.

  • AdLib : Cher – If Obama and a Dem Congress is in place after 2012 and if they do what they’re promising, they will own 2016 because they will have made the lives of all Americans better and you just can’t run against that.

  • SallyT : Well the Repubs won’t be working any longer to keep him from getting re=elected anyway!

  • AdLib : It really is unusual that a President with the economy and job stats where they are right now, in the midst of an opposing party hammering him and being so much in the spotlight, is seeing his ratings rise and beats his potential opponents in most polls. Just consider if the economy just continues as it appears it will and once Obama has his campaign running fully and getting ads out there touting the truth about his accomplishments, how strong will he be then?

  • Chernynkaya : I do too. But I’m already worried about 2016. I know, I know. One thing at a time.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I for one think if Obama is reelected 2014 will be the best year in decades.

  • Chernynkaya : OK, I see what you mean now. Yes, I agree. There is nothing they’ve been fear-mongering about that has come to pass.

  • AdLib : KQ – Iraq ending is a mental weight off of many Progressives and dialing down in Afghanistan, when it becomes more substantial, will be a big relief.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cher if we had kept any troops and bases in Iraq I would agree but since Obama kept his promise in Iraq I think most Dems believe him when he says we will be out of Afghanistan too.

  • Chernynkaya : Take care, Murph. keep up the good fight.

  • Chernynkaya : Heh! That’s the title.

  • SallyT : Good night Murph. You will like the NEW Rules, too. See you later.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ not sure what you mean. I think that as long as we’re in Afghanistan, Iraq seems not as important as it is.

  • AdLib : Cher – “Mr. Obama Stays in Washington”.

  • AdLib : Night Murph, have a great weekend!

  • AdLib : I meant “Night CL!”

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think Iraq finally ending is a bigger mental albatross with the left than people can imagine.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well folks I am kind of blogged-out right now. Mind going numb. So, adieu.

  • Chernynkaya : Right, AL! It would be a Frank Capra!

  • AdLib : Might CL! You deserve a treat or a bonus or something for a job well done this week! Sleep well and have a relaxing weekend!

  • Chernynkaya : Not a day goes by when Obama doesn’t do something new or overturn something bad. He is the best of presidents in our history, and amazes me.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….Your take on the election in the Fall is one I generally agree to.

  • AdLib : Cher – It makes perfect sense! Life is not like the movies, things rarely are so simple and extreme…which is what makes movies so enjoyable. Life is filled with many more complications. If Obama wins and the Dems re-take Congress, that will actually be as much as a movie-type ending to Obama’s first term as one could imagine and the prologue for an exciting sequel!

  • SallyT : Good night Kes and Choice.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Hmmm… I think they almost have to affirm based on the own precedence they set on interstate commerce including Kennedy and Scalia.

  • Chernynkaya : Wow–time really does fly.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes and Choice–sleep well!

  • choicelady : kes – time flies when you’re having fun! I also am packing it in. I’ve had a thoroughly hectic, amazing, whirlwind week, and I’m beat. Good night all – sweet dreams, and we will see you here next week!

  • KQµårk 死神 : A bad day in the Obama presidency was better than the best day in the Bush presidency for me. I can easily say the top 4 or 5 worse days I could remember in my life were thanks to the Bush arrogance and incompetence.

  • AdLib : Night Kes!

  • AdLib : Night Sabreen!

  • AdLib : KQ – Interesting question on the ACA, KQ. I actually don’t think they will overturn the mandate and certainly not the entire ACA. If they don’t or if they just overturn the mandate, I think it deflates the GOP. After all, if their main attack on the ACA is the mandate and the mandate alone is ruled unconstitutional but the rest of the plan remains… they’ve lost their main argument and the remaining ones are so piddly!

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I liked Clinton and was glad he won, but he dragged this ball and chain of both his womanizing AND his lack of backbone. I was so ashamed of his cowardice on issues such as Lani Guenier (sp?) That was just stupid of him! And it happened over and over. I’ve never once felt Obama was a source of wincing. I don’t give a damn about Solyndra – every administration backs companies that go under. I care that his POLICIES are what we need and that his very capable strategic bargaining has kept us safe from the GOP predations. He is freaking amazing!

  • ChrisR266 : Be right back, quick break.

  • SallyT : Murph, you will have a hard time watching because of this bitch of a woman/Kennedy/ra dio host won’t keep her mouth shut! She doesn’t like Obama.

  • Chernynkaya : Take care, Sabrren!

  • ChrisR266 : Good evening, Kes.

  • Chernynkaya : AL, I love to imagine that! I can remember the day I grew up, in a sense; it was when my ex explained that life rarely has dramatic endings–no all-or-nothing results. And I realized that was usually true. It didn’t have to be perfect for me to see it as a win. Does that make sense? So if we win the presidency, and keep on House–with whatever margin–I’ll be thrilled.

  • ChrisR266 : Sleep well, Sabreen. Good to talk with you tonight.

  • kesmarn : Me too, Sabreen! Just looked at the clock… Where did the time go? Have a great weekend, all!

  • KQµårk 死神 : :oops: Sabreen.

  • Sabreen60 : Gee it is getting late. Night Funk. I’m right behind you. Y’all take care ya hear :D

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Obliteration was exactly what I had in mind. That party and mindset must die, be put to rest for good.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sabrene I hear ya same here.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Speaking of mandates AdLib who important is it that the mandate in the ACA is affirmed by the SCOTUS?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T thanks for the Maher review. I will catch it later.

  • ChrisR266 : Golden slumbers, my Funk friend.

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I’m with you. Once I decided on Candidate Obama over Hilary, I have never looked back. The 2008 election was the first election I felt as though I was not choosing the lesser of two evils. I didn’t think of President Clinton as evil, I was concerned about his record as Governor.

  • AdLib : Night Funk!

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: I think it did. I’ve been sharing with lots of people exactly what Keystone is, and they get it now.

  • AdLib : Imagine the impact of a mandate-sized win for Obama and Dems retaking the House and retaining the Senate. It would be an obliteration of the GOP AND the Tea Party. And with a mandate from a new election and wisdom about what Republicans are and how they are not legitimate partners in government, I could imagine some pretty amazing developments over the next 4 years. And if he’s able to replace one of the 5 jerks in the SCOTUS with a moderate or liberal and tip the SCOTUS back to the people…look out! BTW, filibuster reform is not optional in such a situation, it is mandatory and Harry Reid better not stand in the way or we will step up against him.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….good chatting with you here and at the other place. Peace.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yeah stay away from the Po Po funk.

  • Chernynkaya : Murph I haven’t seen them, but I’m not surprised. That’s the best we can hope for.

  • choicelady : kes – some environmentalist groups gave Obama kudos on Keystone. It CAN be created to be safe, but his interest in that will get him few fans from the REAL hair on fire types who wouldn’t know a sandhill crane from a city bus. It’s just something to whine about. They REALLY should care about the aquifer! But that’s under flyover country, so, well, who cares…

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yeah he will Cher.

  • SallyT : Good night Funk. Stay indoors!

  • kesmarn : Cher, that’s interesting. You think Keystone really will happen,huh?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…two Keystone alternatives have already come forth and both are better than the orignal plan.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: I know exactly what you speak. She is the last of them. They’re the ones making the ruckus this time around. They are a dying breed. And, I probably would have quaffed five stiff ones tout suite.

  • Chernynkaya : Night, Funk.

  • kesmarn : G’night funk! Stay safe!

  • funksands : Goodnight everyone! Eating a very late dinner tonight.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Not really Chris most of this happened before I met her. She pretty much left that life when she got old enough.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes, I think Obama will eventually approve a modification of Keystone. I think there is too much pressure not to. All I hope for–and believe–is that he will make the safety restrictions fierce.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: It’s your life, too.

  • KQµårk 死神 : kes that certainly helped.

  • kesmarn : Anyone think that Obama’s thumbs down on Keystone gained him major cred with the left, also?

  • choicelady : Cher – no I had to step out and get food for a homeless neighbor. Yes – it IS discouraging but also inspiring to live these days! I feel the things we fought for in the 60s are actually coming true NOW. Long, long list of things we wanted that Obama is making come true for us and everyone, so being discouraged seems odd to me.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Everyone seems to forget that another part of this upheaval is the stark realization that the economy always does better under Democrats, ALWAYS. It just rattles Republicans to the core, and it Isn’t something Democrats have taken to brag about. But, the moderates and independents are facing that reality now, and it truly is earthshaking for them.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Chris, Cher…I live in very conservative rural Mo. One of my neighbors, who is generally unaware of my political leanings, told me that she is so upset with her kids and grandkids….not going to church, dating/marrying the wrong kind of people (Asian, Hispanic and Black), not supporting the wars….then she said: “It has all gotten so much worse since that man Barry got in the White HOuse. How did we let that happen.” I went home and had a stiff drink.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I always tell her she needs to write a book about her life.

  • kesmarn : So cool,funk! Please do that>

  • Chernynkaya : AL–perfectly articulated. I could not agree more.

  • funksands : Kes: I was planning on making it its own post on the Planet the day after the election. Should be interesting.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib a big part of that is tax reform. Obama is already winning the argument about fair taxation but they have to come through like they came through with the ACA

  • SallyT : But, during the debates I think we have said the same thing about Ron Paul. Sometimes he says stuff that is right but he is a crazy dude other times.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, yes, I understand it, but am still shocked at how much racism is acceptable and out there now. I never would have imagined mainstream racism being broadcast.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: I suspect in a year or two, you two ought to sit down and write that book.

  • kesmarn : Oh funk, that will be fascinating and exciting to open that letter. I remember — the next day — being seized with a terrible fear for the Prez’s safety, too.

  • choicelady : kes! My husband and I both cried with the sheer joy of yes, NO MORE BUSH, and especially at the historic power of this president! I could NOT wrap my mind around it – he WON!!! I’m so used to losing, and this time the MOST audacious candidate WON!!! And it moved us to tears. And I’ve never been disappointed in him. Never. He continues to touch me with his humanity and inspire me with his policies and strategies. Wow. So yeah – CRY for happy!

  • AdLib : I would propose that the one way for the nation to move back to the middle and hopefully, more Progressive…is the economy turning around under an Obama second term with a Dem Congress. If at least the impression that government CAN work when Progressively minded people are in charge and it CAN make your life better, the GOP could indeed be relegated to minority status for 25 years again. They’ve played out their trickle down scenario over the last 30 years, to prove that a Progressive path reverses the inequity and makes things better would lead to a severe disintegration of their validity. Add to that, the old haters dying off and minorities becoming a greater percentage of the population along the way, the GOP could enter at least a Lost Decade.

  • SallyT : Yes, Maher was definately on Obama’s side tonight. He had to fight with two Repubs but he didn’t let them win. He had nothing but good things to say about the President. He did say he Ron Paul did say some good things but he also said that Ron Paul is crazy on to many things.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Chris her father was and still is part of the whole AA preacher thing and she’s met so many people like Oprah, Barbara Walters, Jessie Jackson and son, etc… She use to actually work for Doug Wilder’s lieutenant governor.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: I just read your last sentence. The racism is really a reaction to the tsunami of change they see coming. They just can’t grip that being white ain’t all that anymore.

  • funksands : Kes, I wrote a letter to my sons about how I felt and what I thought was going to happen next after that election night. I sealed it and am not going to open it until next election night. I can’t really remember what I wrote.

  • Chernynkaya : CL, did you see my comment a while ago about Phil Ochs? I hear you, but for older Lefties, I can at least see how discouraged they are.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: I do. People will not abide by turning the clock back. Our kids, my kid, will not stand for it.

  • choicelady : Murph – I’m not the one who heard Maher but yes, apparently he defended him. Who heard that? Murph needs to know!

  • Chernynkaya : Sally–exactly.

  • kesmarn : I was surprised to, Chris, to find myself crying ridiculously on election night 2008. All the horror of the Bush years flooding away.

  • choicelady : Cher – the “left” of the 1930s were people with a serious cause and willingness to be active. These lefties are armchair rads, and yes, that gives them free rein to critique Obama til the cows come home. They have no sacrifice to make, so sure. Bitch.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I just can’t believe how reactionary both ends of the ideological spectrum are. Being reactionary use to define you as a conservative. And of course the least reactionary politician I can think of is Obama because he always has the long term in mind.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, I felt that way too. Do you still? I realize now that the fight had just begun–things came out that needed to. I never understood how racist this country is.

  • SallyT : As a Baby Boomer that has always been liberal I have to say that we did get radical over the war because our age were the ones drafted. But, if you had money you didn’t go. That can piss you off! When it got to Reagan and the “Me Generation”, we liberals appeared to be behind the times and a lot of us changed sides. I don’t think all of us did and I do see many out there now. Look into the Occupy and you will see us.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….fill me in….did Maher heap praise on Obama tonight? As to your MSM obsevation…the progressive media types are seeing more and more of campaign Obama and more liberal Obama….the guy they wanted to elect.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ. I hope this doesn’t sound funny, but So cool for you. That’s history most people can’t even wrap their minds around.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh and the GOPTEA House I’m sure is a factor as well.

  • ChrisR266 : I remembering sobbing election night of 2008 because I realized that finally, this thing was going to start turning around. I knew it would not be overnight, but it was–irreversibl y–going to turn.

  • kesmarn : And the fact that Mandel poses behind the military vet image is irksome, Chris, to say the least.

  • AdLib : CL – Funny you mention that, I was thinking the same thing today. That blowhard Ed who had been attacking Obama regularly has become a big cheerleader of his, along with a number of the Purist types. And we’re not hearing much from the EMoProgs anymore, don’t see Hamster and such on the talk shows lately. I think the GOP race has totally destroyed these small minded jerks, no reasonable Dem or Indie would consider the possibility of defeating Obama now when they see the alternatives.

  • ChrisR266 : I think people forget that four years is just a pittance as a generation matures and the demographics of a population changes.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh yeah, Stockley Carmichael actually stayed in her house one night growing up.

  • Chernynkaya : CL, I expect the Left will feel free to bash Obama again in his second term.

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: Mandel is a scumbag rivaling the scumbag greatness of Kasich. He will lose.

  • kesmarn : But consider the 1950’s and what was being reacted TO. No legal abortion, McCarthy witch hunts, the draft and no voting rights for 18-21 year olds. Not pretty!

  • Chernynkaya : OH, I see, Sabreen. Yes.

  • Chernynkaya : BTW, what do y’all think about Geithner saying he won’t be asked to stay on?

  • choicelady : Cher – Whew. I’m glad i’m not imagining it entirely! It seems positive, though after three years of beating our heads against their brick walls, I WILL be cautious. I hope they begin to see reason.

  • funksands : KQ, seriously? Black Panthers? Wow.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, totally agree. The 60’s freaked them out big time. Everything since has been a backlash.

  • choicelady : KQ – sometimes the immediate experiences (your brother) are pretty intense indicators of what you do NOT want to do or be.

  • Sabreen60 : Cher, I meant when Newt was Speaker. He was awful – mean spirited and just plain ugly.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: I have heard and seen it too. The corportrocacy now realizes that they either back the one who hasn’t ruined the nation, or back the ones who surely will.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think a few things are going on CL first Obama’s populist term and winning against the GOP, then the GOP nominees for president and finally the election always makes more or less rank and file Dems tribal.

  • kesmarn : Oh Chris, I do hope so. Brown is a great senator. And that Mandel creature can’t even be bothered to do the job he has now.

  • AdLib : Funk – It is possible that the Dems lose the Senate and hang onto the House but the polls are showing generic Dems beating generic Repubs in Congress and there is a growing dissatisfaction with the Repubs. If that happened though, the Dems would filibuster bad stuff in the Senate and Obama would use Exec Orders to get as much done as he could.

  • funksands : Choice, I hope that’s it. I think that his support among the faux/emo prog left has risen in direct correlation to the number of GOP debates that have occured.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–I’ve seen teh same thing. As the campaigns get underway, even those who were critical of Obama see the stark choice.

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: he will win.

  • ChrisR266 : Our Liberalism and push for change scared the beejebus out of them in the 60s and 70s. It has come back around in the 2010s. Worse so, they see themselves really becoming a minority, undeniably so.

  • Sabreen60 : Funk, I worried about the Senate. The House – I’m a little more optimistic.

  • Chernynkaya : Sabreen, happened before Newt this time around. I blame the RR and the Baggers.

  • KQµårk 死神 : My wive’s parents are ex Black Panthers and they we’re involved with really radical stuff like blowing shit up. That to me is radical.

  • AdLib : Chris – And during that period, while the MSM will still work hard to keep Romney in the spotlight, Obama will be getting the power of the Presidency to further highlight his agenda and accomplishments. I think Obama will put more of a margin between himself and ROmney over the next month.

  • choicelady : Everyone – the issue of Maher defending Obama has raised a purely anecdotal issue: I am detecting a much increased support for Obama among the talking heads – Ed Schultz, Joan Walsh, and others. Am I nuts or MAYBE has the work WE have done here and at other sites – work based on logic and reasoned arguments – could it actually be WORKING? It’s not perfect, but it does seem to me more and more pundits are actually saying positive things about the POLICIES and the CHARACTER of this president. Of course I don’t go “over there” at all, but even DailyKos seems more thoughtful and less bombastic. Anyone else think so?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- Obama holds the presidency, the House goes Dem and the Senate stays more narrowly Dem IF the economic news stays relatively positive and moving in the direction it is now. IF. One gift from the Greatest Generation and the Boomers is unbridled narcissism. It is all about ME!

  • Chernynkaya : Funk, I think at the very least we will gain many House seat. And I think we will keep the majority in the Senate.

  • kesmarn : funk,that is a scary vision of the future. I’m not enough of a numbers person to be able to do the statistics, but I do know the right is seriously gunning for Sherrod Brown here.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Good points CL. I way overgeneralize I’m sure. Just offering up one perspective of many. But somehow liberal became a bad word because people got scared. Sure people were manipulated by that fear but it did exist on some level.

  • Sabreen60 : We have Newt and others to thank for the vitriol in politics. Dems and Repubs disagreed about most policies, but I don’t think they saw each other as enemies, but opponents. Repubs and Dems did work together on some issues to reach compromise. Now it’s as though there are two separate Americas and one needs to go ahead and secede.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: Exactly damned correct. Curse him, GWB.

  • AdLib : Murph – Agreed though in the big picture, I think it will leave the image of Romney as Richie Rich who doesn’t care about most Americans hardened in American’s minds.

  • funksands : “What is the liklihood of this happening?: The Dems just miss taking back the House, and also lose the Senate in the upcoming elections?” The math doesn’t look good barring a HUGE turnout. Opinions?

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Agreed. That’s exactly what we want to happen. All before Obama has to campaign a lick.

  • Chernynkaya : You know, maybe I’m wrong, but the other night I watched a doc about Phil Ochs–among others I watched recently about the 60’s–and I can’t get over how we’ve moved so far right since then. I can ALMOST understand where people like Emo Robert Sheer are coming form. When on is stuck in the 60’s, and sees the difference now, it’s kinda hard to take. But they are not living in reality.

  • choicelady : KQ – even as one who is pretty radical now, I realized all through the 60s that there were many ways to be political, and if you disrespected others along the way, you became them. The massive corruption under mostly Nixon though LBJ had his problems, and the profound horror of Vietnam deserved our loathing – but the PEOPLE did not. I personally know of no one who spat on returning vets and know very many vets that never happened to. But that was the beginning of the division between groups and people that became almost irreparable. I’m not sure when it will heal because 9/11 should have done that – and Bush blew us apart again. VERY painful.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Ut oh Funk must have more of the Po Po in his back yard.

  • AdLib : Chris – I think you’re right, Newt will die on the vine when it comes to popularity during that period. However, I think the bitterness associated with Romney will settle in for people.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib….the hiatus gives Romneys agents time to further deflate the Salamander Balloon Boy (message, money, momentum)

  • kesmarn : Head for the bunker everyone!!

  • funksands : sorry I have to leave soon

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: Indeed. Exactly. Same thing happening now.

  • funksands : ***********ATTEN TION************ INCOMING QUESTION******** *****

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Help Romney. It will deflate the Gingrich sails altogether.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Understood Chris but I never saw how it would change things and all it did was scare the country into turning toward the right and now they are the radicals.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…I worked with Republican Govenor’s Association on two projects with Dick Ogilve as my liaison….great people…not so much any more….in fact, hardly at all.

  • funksands : Choice, do you think that moderates could re-emerge inside the GOP if they get their asses handed to them enough over the next few election cycles?

  • ChrisR266 : Morbid. Oh Lord.

  • AdLib : So, after the FL primary, there won’t be any elections or debates for a month. Will this help or hurt Romney?

  • funksands : I like morbid.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: But your brother’s radicalism was borne of something real, and significant. It was neither selfish or wrongheaded.

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, got it now, AL. I misread it.

  • KQµårk 死神 : funk really I didn’t take it personally. My experiences gives me a terrible morbid sense of humor.

  • choicelady : Murph – yes, me, too. Chuck Percy was our Senator back in the late 60s. When my brother wanted to be a CO during Vietnam – it was PERCY who backed my brother’s petition. I will never forget that. It was honorable of him to respect my brother’s stand. Wow. I still think there are good people in the GOP – they just mostly are not running for office. Dennis seems to be one of them. He’s a thoroughly nice guy – and he knows I’m VERY different, and he’s respectful of my ideas, too. That’s cool. Ronald Reagan’s son-in-lw meets the Churchlady/Choic elady. Could be worse!

  • SallyT : I’m a Baby Boomer. We fought the establishment and now we’s is one!

  • AdLib : Cher – That’s what I was saying, he sounded like he was clueless or intentionally contrary but he didn’t sound like a Repub, just because he had a poorly founded criticism of Obama. People should be allowed to be wrong without being accused of being a bad guy.

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, Sabreen!

  • KQµårk 死神 : I was born in the 60’s like Obama and I think we saw allot of the mistakes the early boomers made too. My older brother is ten years older than I and I never bought into his radicalism.

  • Chernynkaya : Yep, Chris, lost cause.

  • Sabreen60 : Hi Chris!

  • ChrisR266 : Y’all: There are some people out there (far right out there) who just will not be moved. They are afraid of anyone not like them, believe in nothing, and spooked by everything. All they cling to is there little 1.2 acres (I’m really not trying to say it like Obama did 4 years ago…). These people are real.

  • funksands : KQ, not you!!! I was just hoping you’d chase down a few hove-arounds and put some pillows over their faces.

  • kesmarn : But it was the Greatest Generation that REALLY ruined everything, funk! :lol: Ronnie Raygun and Company.

  • Chernynkaya : My son really surprised me by his animosity towards my generation. He feels we get ours and left little for his generation. Not ME personally of course, but my generation.

  • AdLib : Funk – The best way to help the old white Southern folks, who are holding back progress in this country, to get to Heaven quicker is to just let them win out on blocking Michele Obama’s campaign for healthy eating in their states. They will continue to grow too big to leave their houses to vote and as uninsured “libertarians” will leave this Earth grasping their chests for where their heart should be.

  • Sabreen60 : Hey Murph. Just got back.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Let’s not forget the ‘greatest generation’s’ complicity in this too with Ronald Raygun and Nixon.

  • choicelady : KQ – Boomers (I am one) have a LOT to answer for.

  • Chernynkaya : I’m with you CL. That’s what I think too.

  • choicelady : funk – I would ordinarily agree and HOPE you are correct. But all the good will of post 9/11 went up in smoke soon thereafter because Bush capitalized on it in evil ways. That is what makes me fear we never again will have any unity of cause and purpose. I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. REALLY hope that!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : choicelady….th at’s the GOP of the North, Midwest and far West that I used to know and work with.

  • Chernynkaya : CL, if I were a moderate Repub, I would be completely demoralized and would zone out. Maybe they’ve just given up following politics.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’ve been clinically dead twice already funk. But I’m too much of a bastard to die.

  • funksands : Ad, may I officially pose a question to the group?

  • choicelady : BTW – I never get to name drop since I know wonderful but not famous people mostly. But I DO know and sat with Dennis Revell yesterday, Maureen Reagan’s husband. He’s therefore Ronald Reagan’s son-in-law. I don’t know him well but we talk at various meetings we both attend – and damn if he’s not a really nice guy. I don’t think we have a lot in common, but we CAN talk, and he’s funny and nice – so where did all those great people GO? I hope his “type” will come back soon.

  • funksands : KQ, do the noble thing would you?

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’m a borderline boomer like Obama and I do blame allot of American’s divisions on my own group.

  • funksands : Choice, we are pretty good as a people when everything breaks and when are backs are up against the wall. Right now we are just letting off steam and shedding our skin.

  • Chernynkaya : Sally, I say that now.

  • ChrisR266 : Aw, RATS? Sheesh.

  • Chernynkaya : AL, Dem purists are the same to me as Baggers to me. But I got the impression this fellow was not a partisan–just his opinion. I think he was wrong, but not really partisan. what he WAS was tin eared.

  • AdLib : CL – Sounds like a very good book! And you certainly don’t hear the RR condemning those who want to attack doctors who perform abortions, they are co-conspirators in terrorism and are condoning murder by doing so…yet get hysterical about Muslims possibly doing the same as them.

  • funksands : Sally, with our luck we’ll end up with Planet of the Rats or something else shitty like that.

  • SallyT : Watch it Funk!

  • KQµårk 死神 : That may very well be what happens CL and what the whole Libertarian thing is all about.

  • ChrisR266 : Funk: I’m working on it, I’ll just keep drinking the brew…

  • choicelady : funk – I really hope you are correct. Americans growing up and being adult would be the perfect outcome.

  • funksands : We just need to hurry up and get all of the boomers to die off, then we’ll be saved. No offense. ;-)

  • ChrisR266 : Hi AdLib. Good to be here.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I was going to point out if you were a liberal no way could that come off flat to you. Unless you are a cynical liberal I guess.

  • SallyT : And we will see the Statue of Liberty laying on the shore, Cher, and we will say, “DAMN YOU, DAMN YOU!”

  • ChrisR266 : On that we agree, Funk.

  • AdLib : Hey Murph! Hey Chris! Great to see both of you!

  • funksands : I predict Americans pulling their head out of their ass before I predict the dissolution of the union.

  • choicelady : KQ – I often think that while the feds must protect civil rights and some other fundamentals, I’m about ready to saw off the part below the Mason Dixon. I KNOW you live there – we would have a very liberal immigration plan – no reservations for anyone who WANTED to be out of there. It shows good sense. So come on up!

  • KQµårk 死神 : kes that’s my word lately. I especially love calling Romney and the GOP that for all there predictions about the auto bailouts and such.

  • AdLib : Cher – Dem Purists are as objectionable as Baggers to me. I would suggest that it seems provocative for someone to label Obama’s speech as flat because it really takes a lot of denial not to recognize that, even if one disagreed, it was not flat. So, being contrary for the sake of it does open the critical floodgates but being kneejerk and calling anyone who criticizes Obama a Repub, is simplistic and closed minded.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ, either it WILL end–in the way the pendulum swings and people will say “Enough!” or the US will end.

  • kesmarn : :lol: “Nostradumbarse “

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, Choice and Kes. Hope everyone is well.

  • funksands : Just to you darlin

  • KQµårk 死神 : The US is going to look like a loose collection of Nation States in the future. Anyway that’s my Nostradumbarse prediction.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Chris!

  • choicelady : Hi Chris! How are you tonight?

  • ChrisR266 : Aw Funk, you are way over the too kind, sir.

  • ChrisR266 : Hi Cher.

  • funksands : Hey Teach!

  • Chernynkaya : Hi Chris!

  • choicelady : AdLib – absolutely NO difference whatsoever. Fundamentalist extremists are all the same. There is a great book, Terror in the Mind of God done BEFORE 9/11 that compared bin Laden, the ricin-spreading Japanese cult leader, and Michael Bray the Army of God leader positing murders of abortion providers. One could find almost no difference. The author is Mark Jeurgensmeyer from UC Santa Barbara. VERY good book.

  • ChrisR266 : Good evening, everyone.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The only thing is Cher. At one point I did think the Cold Civil War could end but no more.

  • SallyT : Hi there, Murph! Good to see you.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk….they will go up like the driest of tinder….no weight, no merit.

  • funksands : Kes: «link»

  • Chernynkaya : Kes–:lol:

  • kesmarn : Hey, Murph! That’s a Bonfire of Vanity.

  • Chernynkaya : Hey Murph!

  • Chernynkaya : KQ–yes. Civil War. (Still haven’t finished that piece I was writing about that.)

  • funksands : May I ask a question that I have been pondering for a few days? I’d like to get some opinions. Hi Murph! Make sure and fill that boat with lots of copies of Newt’s books.

  • kesmarn : Cher, I can see everyone’s but funk’s. His was stolen last night.

  • Chernynkaya : OOPs Sally, I see you. It’s just KQ and Funk now.

  • AdLib : Kes – Pretty disgusting but being a Repub, it will probably turn out that he paid for an abortion when he was younger and will be the first to be hung.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Late, late, late but better late than not at all. I was out preparing a Viking Long Boat for Newt’s immolation next Tuesday.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Politics is killing this country in every way Cher. Because you cannot get things done if everything is made to be a political fight.

  • Chernynkaya : AL–Great point. No difference.

  • SallyT : Cher, I beg your pardon!

  • funksands : I’ve never been able to see my own avi until I log out from Vox

  • Chernynkaya : Oh, AL has his regular avi too.

  • funksands : KQ: *ding*

  • kesmarn : Oops…sorry KQ! I didn’t see that you had just posted that link!

  • Chernynkaya : Hey, I just noticed that everyone here but kes and I have generic avatars. Why?

  • KQµårk 死神 : See the right wing believes in magical thinking they think that they won’t have to work like the Chinese but everyone else will.

  • AdLib : Cher and Funk – What difference is there in killing innocent people to enforce religious beliefs at abortion clinics and killing innocent people to enforce religious beliefs in financial buildings.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ, there was a telling exchange about that on Twitter. Some journalist from a network thought the SOTU was “flat.” He got mail accusing him of being a Repub,and he’s not. But he asked why he was accused of that. I realized that at this point, everything is partisan. That’s just the way it us now.

  • choicelady : AdLib – well, thankyou – I do have me a good crop of enemies! And KQ – I think I’m passing on that link. Gives me the heebie jeebies.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Actually funk I think the right wing would love for minorities to be the permanent underclass and do all the hard work.

  • kesmarn : True dat, AdLib! And here’s the link to the article on public executions: «link»

  • choicelady : kes – yes. It drove me out of my previous state since I was unable to get any help and was constantly harassed, followed, photographed – it went on for TWO years. They are really insane.

  • funksands : Sabreen, you are welcome. I thought it was pretty good.

  • funksands : Ad, you are absolutely right. Conservatives wouldn’t mind having our country be a cross between Branson and China as long as everyone had the right “composition”.

  • KQµårk 死神 : right on cue CL ‘North Carolina GOP Lawmaker Calls For Bringing Back Public Hangings, Starting With Abortion Providers’ «link»

  • AdLib : Kes – You can judge a person by their enemies so CL is one fantastic person by definition!

  • Sabreen60 : Hi Funk! Thanks for the article on Twitter.

  • Chernynkaya : AL, I truly believe this is a case of pathological projection. Time and again, every thing they accuse us of is something they do or want to do. Every single time.

  • funksands : CL, nope. And now I don’t care.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cher it just proves everything is turned into a political fight today no matter what the facts are.

  • kesmarn : Oh, c’lady…. That’s just so depressing and surreal — that you’re actually on someone’s hit list?!

  • choicelady : Hey funk – glad things are back to normal AND that your wife fixed the fence. Ever figure out if the hole was from the bad guy or the police?

  • AdLib : Cher – I know what you’re talking about. It really is ironic that the RR who are most terrified of Muslims are so similar to the profile of Muslims they attack. They want a state ruled by religious fundamentalists and religious laws to force the population to adhere to their religion. It just sounds like jealousy to me, “America is our country to dominate with our version of Christianity, not your version of Islam! That would be an outrage!”

  • Chernynkaya : Funk. :!:

  • choicelady : kes – Brownback of Kansas said the same thing, that abortion providers should be executed. There is a whole “Defensive Action” statement justifying shooting doctors. And the Nuremberg List of pro choice people to be “brought to justice” through execution. I’m on it. These people are NOT just SAYING these things.

  • SallyT : Rand Paul is one scary dude.

  • Chernynkaya : And KQ did you see the tape from the TSA? He was NOT detained, nor did he put up a fuss. Man, I so loathe these people.

  • funksands : Cher, they’d have to have hands free to do that.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Rand Paul proves the bat guano doesn’t fall far from the batshitcrazy cave.

  • Chernynkaya : Funk–just tell them to shut up and drink their pruno.

  • choicelady : Sally!!! I’ve heard that from other men, too – what a stitch!

  • kesmarn : Cher, you naughty girl… funk’s wife won’t sleep tonight either…

  • funksands : Cher, that’s not funny. The people locked in my basement were really freaked out last night.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ–Excellent!

  • Chernynkaya : Funk–the call is coming from INSIDE the house! S’all I’m gonna say.

  • funksands : Thanks for your concern.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cher that’s like Rand Paul complaining about the TSA taking our freedoms away on the way to a right wing anti-abortion rally.

  • funksands : Nope, and my wife fixed the fence. It’s like it never happened.

  • Chernynkaya : Funk! How’s the fence?

  • SallyT : Funk, anybody in the backyard?

  • AdLib : Hey Funk! Hope all is well after your home version of CSI!

  • kesmarn : Hey, funk! Any backyard visitors tonight?

  • Chernynkaya : I know. These people are sick, authoritarian fuckers. If you want to understand how some Fundies and repubs think about women, listen to Limbaugh. They are like many in the Middle-east culture–terrifi ed of women.

  • funksands : Howdy everybody!

  • kesmarn : There was a Repub in S.Car. who proposed that abortion providers be publicly executed by hanging “as a deterrent.” I’ll try to find the link.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’m just glad the right wingers are anti-Jewish now (kinda) because you know what Rabbi’s cut off.

  • SallyT : Personally, I don’t know how women can be cannibals but my husband says if he could do what our dog can with himself, he wouldn’ leave the house.

  • AdLib : KQ – The RW has missed feeling scared and were relieved to have something to be terrified of. They are the types that are only happy when they are terrified for their lives.

  • AdLib : Cher – Still, the proposition is that those who want women to have control over their own bodies, are potential cannibals.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib that was just bizarre but the right wing loved it.

  • Chernynkaya : Embryos would’ve been acceptable. It was fetuses.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I looked at Rubio’s ‘record’ he makes Sarah Palin look qualified.

  • AdLib : Ask Santorum, the true threat in South America and illegal immigration…is Muslim extremist Iranian jihadists!

  • kesmarn : Sometimes ya just gotta laugh, KQ…

  • SallyT : Never understood that Shariah Law scare.

  • Chernynkaya : I’m back. Here’s the Rubio story:«link» iti.co/A00eAT

  • KQµårk 死神 : :lol: kes you have me in stiches.

  • AdLib : KQ – Mmm…embryos for lunch, just what we Progressives have been waiting for. We’re just polite cannibals!

  • kesmarn : And yet they’re cool with making “Biblical Law” the law of the land. More projection.

  • KQµårk 死神 : It’s like making laws against legislating Shariah law when no one has ever tried it.

  • kesmarn : Is there anything that PBO cannot do, Sally? Well, besides bowling?

  • AdLib : They did polls on Rubio and he doesn’t help with Hispanics nationally. Grouping rabidly conservative Cubans in with Mexicans and South Americans is misguided.

  • SallyT : They were right on, Kes.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh like the right wing nut that wants to prevent using human embryos or placentas for foodstuff.

  • kesmarn : Sally, I did. Y’know what amazed me — they were in exactly the same key!! How did PBO do that? Does he have perfect pitch too?

  • choicelady : Cher – why did the Reuters story get recanted? Rubio LIED.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL I gotta check that out.

  • AdLib : CL – You’re right, and I feel so embarassed. What about Newt’s ideas to make houses out of shedded dog fur, solve the energy crisis by installing human sized hamster wheel generators in all gyms and solve the jobs issues by making all unemployed people into Soylent Green?

  • choicelady : Cher – I missed Mitt saying that pseudo-Trump line! Good one!

  • kesmarn : Isn’t that typical, c’lady?

  • Chernynkaya : BBL

  • SallyT : Kes, did you see that mix I put up of Obama and Al?

  • choicelady : kes and all – has anyone seen the ‘self deportation’ web site where we ALL are supposed to turn ourselves in if we had ancestors who lied about themselves when they came via Ellis Island? One guy, not seeing the joke, got absolutely FURIOUS since one point is that all ‘anchor babies’ need to go back where they came from. That would be HIM. It was pretty funny – or would have been if it weren’t so pathetic of him to defend HIS right to be here but not anyone else’s.

  • kesmarn : PBO will only have to start singing… Debate over.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I hate to say they do have one issue kinda, energy but thankfully Obama is more moderate on energy than his base.

  • Chernynkaya : I despise Rubio. So sad that the Reuters story had to be recanted.

  • AdLib : With no issues favorable to the indies (and consider how extremist the GOP platform will be coming out of their convention!), Romney will do what he’s started to do, he will run against a fictional Obama that his campaign has created for him. Such an approach only works when you don’t have to confront the real Obama face-to-face. Romney will melt or look like an elitist jerk if he tries to insist in a debate that Obama is “not one of us”.

  • KQµårk 死神 : What kills me about that Cher is all Rubio cares about is rhetoric not policies. Typical GOP hypocrisy in action.

  • Chernynkaya : CL-one of Mitt’s only good lines last night was telling Newt he;d fire him if he came up with that moon thing.

  • kesmarn : To me that whole “self-deportati on” thing is beyond insulting. It seems his message is “come here when we need cheap labor and then get the hell out…over and over.”

  • choicelady : AdLib – I can’t believe you think Newt has no policies! Why he has stressed putting manufacturing in space! Colonizing the moon! Turning mirrors on cities to fight crime with eternal twilight! How CAN you be so disrespectful of this Great Thinker!

  • Chernynkaya : When even Marco Rubio tell Newt/Mitt that they better tone down the immigration rhetoric, you know they’re losing it.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib he is already flip flopping on ‘self deportation’ thanks to Rubio.

  • choicelady : ADLib and kes – it will be very interesting to see what Romney thinks appeals to us “little people”. He is so wildly out of touch.

  • AdLib : How about exploding his BS “self-deportati on”. Instead, it is ghettoization of undocumented workers and sending them deeper into a black market employment world. More poverty, illness and sadly, crime would be what happens. After all, living in the US over Mexico, where jobs are scarce in each case, is an easy call.

  • Chernynkaya : I think so, AL. I mean, he is actually extreme. All he has “going” for him among Indies is his business success and the economy. And the first is maybe moot, and the second might be improving enough.

  • kesmarn : Yes, c’lady, and doesn’t that say volumes about what the “head” of the GOP is right now. Some of those audiences would make professional wrestling fans look genteel.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib Romney about took repealing Obamacare off the table so I don’t know what he’s going to campaign on because like you said running on the Reagan platform is a non starter this year.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – yes, they do seek some kind of self aggrandizement from feelings of inferiority. Mine wanted to be rich and famous, and he never was and never will be. It’s pathetic but scary, too.

  • AdLib : Cher – Good point, neither Romney nor Newt have run on any detailed policies and when Romney has to run in the GE, I will bet that he avoids that as much as he can. I mean, all of his positions are only attractive to the RW base. Just killing Medicare is one position that should destroy his hopes with indies.

  • choicelady : kes- someone noted that unlike real debates, these GOP ones have been staged by various party factions, so there are no rules, no standards, it’s all just a chance to cheer and jeer. That’s why they’re so personal and ugly.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I just can’t wait until Romney flip flops back to the center when he does win the nomination. He’s already started flipping on immigration and the GOP base will not be happy.

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I think they have an inferiority complex. I think they make up these lies to make themselves seem important or more interesting. It’s kinda sad – as I can now look back decades later.

  • Chernynkaya : Here’s one of many «link»

  • choicelady : kes – pathological liars lie for attention, that’s all.

  • SallyT : Hey, I like the show for entertainment. But, he was really going to bat for the President. Even about the Gov of AZ being disrespectful.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sabreen IDK what Repugs were thinking with all these debates. They are all ugly, petty and personal. They are not about issues at all. Even in 2008 by the end there were too many Dem debates during the primaries and at the end they got personal too.

  • kesmarn : I think generally the moderators have been abysmal across the board, Sabreen. And some of the audiences even worse.

  • SallyT : Sabreen, I haven’t heard one. Well, nothing but going to the moon.

  • choicelady : Sally – is it a GOOD thing when a demented fool suddenly comes over to your side???? Maher fighting FOR Obama??? I think that’s almost scary.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Of course there were other things but you do question ones sanity if they like Republicans.

  • kesmarn : Oooo…c’lady. You really got the classic pathological liar. The kind that lies even when there’s nothing in it for ’em.

  • Sabreen60 : I have not watched the debates, but have read comments here, TOD and Twitter. It doesn’t appear that the moderators asked any of the candidates to lay out an economic platform or a foreign policy platform.

  • choicelady : KQ – now THAT is clearly insane! LOL!! Glad you got out!

  • Chernynkaya : CL–just, WOW!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Exactly Cher and that’s not going to work in the general election. We forget most people don’t know who Romney is and now everyone is defining who he is. When Obama get’s him you would swear he was Gordon Gekko personified.

  • choicelady : Mine said he was shot trying to talk a guy down in a bar. Oddly, no wound… Then he’d been burned while doing a summer job in a steel plant. Oddly, no burn. And his first love had died of leukemia. Oddly his parents did not know. And on and on and on.

  • SallyT : Tonight Maher was fighting hard for Obama.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ–good for you! I think Repubs have a mental disease that bleeds into the rest of their lives.

  • kesmarn : Excellent reason, KQ! :lol:

  • Chernynkaya : AL–perfect description of Mahre. Emotionally and intellectually stunted.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I left my first wife because she was going to vote for GHWB in 1992. :lol:

  • Chernynkaya : So far, all Romney is running on is “I can beat Obama that N… who you all think is the antichrist.” All he talks about is Obama. He rarely talks about his platform. Once he DOES talk about it, it’ll be toxic. Let’s not forget he loves Paul Ryan–end of Medicare.

  • kesmarn : You’re a quick learner, Sabreen. Good for you.

  • Sabreen60 : Didn’t Maher say he’s a libertarian?

  • Sabreen60 : LOL. 2 years and I was gone.

  • AdLib : Cher – Maher is emotionally petrified at 23 years old. Womanizer, pot-is-important , loves saying shocking things and amuses himself while rarely funny to most others (as opposed to just crass.

  • SallyT : She wouldn’t shut up and poor Martin Bashir couldn’t get a word in. But the NEW RULES were good.

  • kesmarn : OMG! Sabreen…you poor child! I hope you got out early on!

  • KQµårk 死神 : That’s why it’s political malpractice for Romney. That’s what you do if you are established like Bush did in 2004. But in 2000 Bush ran a campaign to show what he was for, even if it was all a lie and Romney is skipping that part. He’s made no argument what he is for and Kerry made the same mistake against Bush.

  • Sabreen60 : Kes, Found out he was in a hospital in Guam with alcoholic poisoning.

  • SallyT : That Kennedy gal that has a radio show.

  • Chernynkaya : Mahre is a Paulist–probabl y because 1) Mahre is an immature idiot, and 2) legalizing drugs.

  • AdLib : Sally, who was the female guest you speak of that was droning BS on Maher?

  • Chernynkaya : If Huck does, then that great ad will be unusable.

  • kesmarn : “Falling out of a helicopter”?? WOW. Points for creativity on that one at least, Sabreen.

  • AdLib : KQ – Romney is trying the Rove psychology of accusing your opponent of what you are. So Obama, who has tried most of his Presidency to be bi-partisan, is a divider…becaus e he wants the wealthy to pay the same taxes as their secretaries. That’s not an argument he can win when in a debate with Obama.

  • SallyT : KQ, I don’t think Bill Maher said anything to upset you tonight but this bitch he had on gave me a headache!

  • kesmarn : I think he will, Cher, because his corporate masters will tell him to.

  • Sabreen60 : Geez, CL are you psychic? My first husband. The man would lie about any and everything. I was so young and believed him. Even the one about him falling out the helicopter when he was in Vietnam – where he had never been. :-(

  • KQµårk 死神 : Great question Cher I think he will at some point.

  • Chernynkaya : Do you think Huckabee will get on board the Mitt train?

  • KQµårk 死神 : Hey Sally to the T.

  • SallyT : Cher, you devil you!

  • SallyT : HI Sabreen, AdLib, Kes and KQ! Sorry so late.

  • AdLib : Hey Sabreen! I agree, the compulsive liars will just respond to an exposed lie with a new lie, there is no conscience or feeling that they did anything wrong. Lying to get what they want is a simple and reasonable proposition to them. But Huckabee’s 2008 ad that Newt was rebroadcasting was actually on the pount, if someone lies to get into the WH, how dangerous and untrustworthy will they be once they get there?

  • Chernynkaya : No Sally. I’m holding his. (Oh forgive me.)

  • choicelady : Sorry -I was married to one, and you’re correct.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sally exactly that’s how aristocrats think.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I was married to one. You

  • SallyT : Cher, you holding your own?

  • Sabreen60 : Hi Sally!

  • choicelady : Sally – Moi? An Aristocrat?

  • Chernynkaya : Sabreen, I’m with you on that. That’s how liars are.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The other big lie about Romney is that he calls Obama divisive but he’s never made one overture to even moderates to bring this country together. He just assumes since he’s the entitled one people will follow him. He really is the worst candidate I’ve ever seen run for president to make a case why he should be president.

  • kesmarn : Hey, Sally!

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I think pathological liars don’t care whether you know they’re lying or not. I have known a couple. When you call them out, they simply giggle or smile or say your hearing is bad.

  • choicelady : kes – there are different jobs. I have a friend who did a full day’s training and others who did not need to.

  • AdLib : Hey Sally!

  • kesmarn : That’s just what I want. I’m practicing my “menacing look” for the Baggers.

  • SallyT : Hi CL you Aristocrat.

  • Chernynkaya : Hiya, Sally!!

  • AdLib : And we all know how Romney acts when he’s caught in a lie…stammer, laugh, smile, stammer, fumble, laugh, smile, babble.

  • Chernynkaya : No training kes. I was a drone. The ones in charge told me what to do that day.

  • kesmarn : Oh I am going to be SO ON IT, c’lady. Those Baggers better watch it!

  • choicelady : Hey Sally – how are you? GREAT to see you!

  • AdLib : Consider the GE and how there will only be lies to use against Obama while there will be mountains of truths to hammer Romney with.

  • Chernynkaya : CL, I think he is a serial liar. I think he is so hallow he doesn’t know what he said–he’s on auto-pilot. No core at all.

  • SallyT : Good evening.

  • choicelady : kes – well at least ONE precinct in Ohio will be incorruptable! Kesmarn is on the JOB!

  • kesmarn : Cher,did you have to go for training or anything? I hope I can fit it in with work.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes, that’s great. I did it once and tho it was hard, it was fun and I felt so proud of myself. I still get teary eyed when people vote.

  • KQµårk 死神 : And think how big that is AdLib. Even politicians in your own party have different agendas.

  • choicelady : AdLib – from your PEN to the legislators’ conscience!

  • AdLib : CL – From your mouth to the Legislature’s ear… ;-)

  • choicelady : Cher – do you think Romney has either a split personality or ADD? Can he REALLY say that shit and not remember it?

  • kesmarn : Oh hey, I just remembered — got a call from the Board of Elections today asking me to work the primary here on March 6. Have no idea how they got my info. But cool. I wasn’t home @ the time but called back left a voice mail that I would be glad to do it.

  • AdLib : KQ – I like the description of CEOs as dictators who don’t have to answer to those who he leads. With all the crushing of unions, ask Romney about supporting the voice of the many through unions vs. having more unilateral control over all his employees…and the image of the CEO falls apart.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ–I think even ROMNEY said those things about Kerry! I can show you a quote where Mitt said a Blind trust was a scam, meant to hide things–which he accused Kerry of doing.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup kes and the no charisma and flip flopper thing too.

  • choicelady : AdLib – with all the distortions, it seems necessary to have something that will let people vet ads and call out untruths. Or whatever… Heh.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I just don’t see Dems attacking Romney’s radical foreign policy yet is what I’m saying.

  • kesmarn : You mean the “out of touch elitist” thing, KQ?

  • choicelady : KQ – I don’t see the Dems ceeding foreign policy NOW!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Obama is going to do to Romney what Repugs did to Kerry the only difference is this time all the shit they said about Kerry is more true about Romney.

  • kesmarn : That seems to have been a big factor, Sabreen, and it sure bought us a world of pain.

  • Chernynkaya : Agreed, AL.. We will need to work!

  • choicelady : kes – this is the worrisome thing. AWOL, bankruptcies, etc. – the MSM would not deal with it. Dan Rather did (and his evidence was accurate despite lies – the IBM typewriter WAS in use in 1971 ’cause I used one!) and got fired for it. MSM give cover to the conservative no matter how rotten his past.

  • AdLib : CL – It is a minority though of voters out there who see the policies of the Dems and Repubs as similar, which was the way it was in 2000. Now, some may have a blanket disrespect for all politicians but I don’t hear many making the case that there’s no difference.

  • Chernynkaya : CEO’s have one responsibility only: To make a profit. The US is not in the business of anything, least of all, making money. How is that so hard to understand? Do we now need a national discussion of what a nation is about?? I think we do.

  • Sabreen60 : Kes, It seems that far too many people only cared about someone they could have a beer with.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Also what the hell experience does Romney have with foreign policy? It’s terrible Dems cede that to every GOP nominee.

  • choicelady : AdLib – that was a popular meme in 1976, 1980, 1988, and again now. It’s largely the work of disgruntled lefties, but it’s also “they’re all just a buncha crooks” types who always vote RW anyway despite clear evidence that the RIGHT are the crooks.

  • AdLib : Cher – Today though, there is a clear choice and difference between the parties. Those who voted for Bush just to try a slightly different flavor of the same ice cream surely don’t see the Bagger GOP and the Dems in the same way today. I think Obama will crush Romney but we will need to work our butts off to counter the coming money storm from the Kochs et al who will be advertising lies to corrupt the election.

  • kesmarn : :oops: :oops: :oops:

  • kesmarn : And the crazy thing is, Sabreen, Dubya’s business record was of 100% FAILURE! Why didn’t people notice that?

  • Chernynkaya : CL–That’s true! Thanks!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : The biggest difference is a CEO runs a dictatorship of sorts and a president has to deal with an opposition party.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes, CL is NOT being kind. I agree with her totally. Now go blush somewhere! :-)

  • choicelady : Cher – one way to get over worrying about the voters is to remember in both terms – WE DID NOT ELECT BUSH. Voter fraud and SCOTUS elected Bush.

  • Sabreen60 : I think I remember reading or hearing that only 2 presidents were from the business community – one being Dubya.

  • AdLib : Cher – In 2000, it was a popular meme that there was no difference between Repubs and Dems and that was understandable though clearly wrong.

  • kesmarn : Again :oops: You’re too kind, c’lady.

  • choicelady : kes – and I think Barak’s mom would have found YOU fascinating, too! Sorry that was an opportunity missed by you both.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Bush was the first MBA president but Hoover was a businessman most of his career because he was an inventor.

  • Chernynkaya : AdLib, you always make me feel better about voters. I’m still gobsmacked that we elected Dubya. I really am. So I never know how they will vote. I see polls where a big majority says they like a policy, and then they vote for the person who’s against that very thing. Honestly, I don’t know anything about voters.

  • kesmarn : Wish I could have known Barack’s mom, c’lady. I think she would have been fascinating to talk to.

  • choicelady : KQ – I agree. Can anyone think of a businessman who was a GOOD president? Who did not run the car into the ditch? I cannot.

  • AdLib : KQ – Excellent point. The leader of a country requires very different skills than a greedy corporate exec. It should indeed be made clear that what corporate execs practice is profits over what’s best for the majority of those they lead. Is that what we want? Wasn’t Bush our first official Corporate President?

  • KQµårk 死神 : If Gore had destroyed GWB when he made that argument it would not have been close enough for Bush to steal the election in 2000.

  • choicelady : kes – I see NO problem linking you two. First – there’s that word socialist. Clearly it’s a family hand me down. So there ya go.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ Well, I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s the biggest thing, but it’s a good response to mitt. Also, lot’s of pudnuts have been saying that too.

  • choicelady : KQ -in all my days, I’ve never once been aware that Mormons gave a tinkers farthing about Israel. I’m seeing pressure here.

  • kesmarn : I’m trying to figure out some way that I might be related, c’lady, but so far no luck. It’s tough connecting Hungarian socialist to Kenyan socialist.

  • AdLib : Cher – I think most of the ignorant “I can be a millionaire magically one day” voters are the Baggers and other Repubs. Most reasoning people aren’t buying trickle down anymore, all the polls show they support higher taxes on the 1%…and if they thought that would affect them, I doubt they’d support it. I’m pretty confident about most voters not falling for the “Mitt will magically make me rich if elected!”

  • choicelady : Uh-oh – I’m talkin’ kes/Obama conspiracy and Google is baaaack…

  • KQµårk 死神 : The biggest thing Obama needs to counter with Romney is that being a CEO is nothing like running a country.

  • choicelady : kes – does this mean you’re related to Obama? I’m looking for a good conspiracy. Everyone has them I hear…it’s the IN thing.

  • kesmarn : It was a wild time, Cher. I remember very little of it.

  • Chernynkaya : Um that would be “HI.”

  • KQµårk 死神 : How come none of these ultra right wing nationalists don’t have a problem with Romney outsourcing our foreign policy decisions in the Mideast to Israel. I mean saying he would make the US have no space between Israel’s foreign policy is borderline treason.

  • choicelady : Cher – I would have agreed 8 years ago about the billionaire wannabes. I don’t think it’s so prevalent today. Even HGTV is featuring lower cost, less upscale housing on their programs. Less “kitchen envy” for me!

  • Chernynkaya : Kes, I nver know you went to school in HA! Awesome.

  • AdLib : Or…”Everytime you are confronted with an untruth you’ve promoted, you laugh and smile. Why is it so amusing to you?”

  • kesmarn : Cher, yes…parochial school, Catholic girls academy (same one as Marcy) and Catholic college (except for junior year @ the EW Center in Hawaii, where Barack’s mama went to school).

  • Chernynkaya : AL, It doesn’t make sense, but you know there are lots of people who harbor the fantasy they they too can be millionaires. But even among those who know they can’t some people worship the rich. I don’t trust voters very much.

  • choicelady : kes – it would be very interesting to know if Newt has Amway ties. RAchel pointed out his family foundation gave big money to that “pray away the gay” group that was so icky.

  • AdLib : How about prefacing a gotcha on Romney with, “…and could you begin your answer without a forced laugh and smile?”

  • KQµårk 死神 : Lunatic Fringe great 90’s song kes.

  • kesmarn : Romney reminds me of an Amway saleman. Glazed eyes. Peddling crap. Isn’t he somehow connected with those Michigan — deVos–Blackwate r–Amway people?

  • AdLib : Kes – Nice one!

  • AdLib : Cher – I get it but in the current environment of 99% vs. 1% and the 1% being “successful” because of bail outs and tax loopholes, that’s an argument that can be dissolved pretty quickly. All Obama needs to point out is that only 1% of Americans are millionaires so 99% of us won’t be.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes, did you go to a parochial school?

  • choicelady : AdLib – he will probably be the nominee, but he won’t get elected. The recent display of “human qualities” was so thin on the ground as to be meaningless. And he’s exhausted the supply of human emotion already.

  • kesmarn : Me too, Cher.

  • Chernynkaya : HAH kes–good one! (I had to take Latin in HS.)

  • kesmarn : Hope Newtie remembers his Latin so he can figure out what the word “lunatic” really means.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Hopefully he doesn’t AdLib.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib Romney offers very little. His whole case is his business acumen and he stands on the shoulders of the last to great presidents that were prominent businessmen George W Bush and Herbert Hoover.

  • choicelady : AdLib – PLEEZE don’t put fat butt Newt and “moons” in the same sentence. Cannot handle it.

  • AdLib : CL – So how does ROmney get elected?

  • Chernynkaya : There is only one talking point that I think Mitt may have–among a certain sector. he said, I am successful, therefore I know how YOU can be successful too. I know how to do it. Now, it;s BS, but of all he;s said, that’s the only thing that makes any sense.

  • AdLib : Gingrich is taking credit for crescent moons.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Romney’s appeal is meaningless stuff about “making things better”. You got it.

  • kesmarn : Nada, c’lady. Nada.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL all those pundits have really been exposed the last few months.

  • choicelady : Kasich is taking credit? So Big K – whadja actually DO to save those jobs???? Hmmmm???

  • KQµårk 死神 : :lol: kes

  • AdLib : Hey all, I’m back! So…what is Romney offering that appeals to indie voters? I can’t really see much more than empty generalities about making everything better.

  • Chernynkaya : What else would a soulless robot moan over? Seriously, have you seen the last 2 Newt ads against Mitt? Wow. I hope the DCCC buys them.

  • kesmarn : And then Kasich was on earlier today taking credit for the Ohio auto sector jobs that Pres Obama saved. Rooster taking credit for the dawn again. I’m surrounded by idiots.

  • choicelady : KQ – it’s a toss up between Reich and Moore. Anyone ever see them in the same room or would all the air get sucked out immediately?

  • KQµårk 死神 : It’s like Romney saying making $370K was not much. Of course now we found out that was not true and he made closer to $480K in wages from speeches and such.

  • choicelady : Cher – exactly. Moaning over bricks and mortar. That’s kinda creepy.

  • Chernynkaya : Exactly, CL. I mean, how tone deaf is that?

  • choicelady : Cher – substitute “bank” for Shylock in Merchant of Venice: “if you prick us, do we not bleed…” Oh. Wait. No we don’t.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I don’t know who is more desperate for attention Kucinich or Moore.

  • kesmarn : I mean I know that’s something that needs to be addressed, but -+- really!

  • Chernynkaya : Here’s the actual quote: “Well, the banks aren’t bad people. They’re just overwhelmed right now. The banks are scared to death, of course. They’re feeling the same thing that you’re feeling.”

  • kesmarn : The FOX local station is interviewing Kucinich in their studio. “What’s the biggest problem Toledo faces?” K: “The toxic algae bloom in Lake Erie.” RIIIIGHT.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cheers Cher that’s the other thing he said I forgot

  • Chernynkaya : And he added, “They’re feeling what you’re feeling.”

  • choicelady : Cher – banks have “feelings”???? ?? Aw where – in their night deposit drawer? Come ON – get a GRIP, Romney!

  • KQµårk 死神 : This is what he actually said. Romney, “Now, the banks aren’t bad people. They’re just overwhelmed right now,”

  • Chernynkaya : What is kuchinich whining about now?

  • Sabreen60 : I do believe Reich is a Puma.

  • choicelady : kes – used to LOVE Dennis. No more.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–Mitt said banks have feelings. He actually said that.

  • kesmarn : OH GOD!!!! I just looked up and fucking KUCINICH is on the local news in Toledo!

  • choicelady : kes – LOL!!! I think you’ve define “personhood” in Romney’s eyes perfectly!!! Corporations yes. Human beings – not so much.

  • choicelady : KQ – WHAT banks are “hurting too”? Not the ones that created the mess! What a buffoon is Romney!

  • Chernynkaya : CL–Reich is a loser. I can no linger stand him–another PL Emo moron.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Reich is your typical firebagger. Like Hamster and the PUMA’s they wanted Hillary and attack Obama from the left even though both never attacked Bill Clinton.

  • kesmarn : Romney speaks lovingly of the banks and their feelings. He truly does believe corporations are people. He just doesn’t believe people are people.

  • choicelady : kes – I really, really respect her for her long and total commitment to labor and laboring people. I know she’ll get trounced by pro choice folks, but even with my record of commitment to choice, I will take her over almost anyone any day.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ you just nailed it: “stupid” lies. His lies are not even cleaver. He’s such a liar, he’s one of thise people who say they’ve seen a movie when they haven’t–just senseless lies. and he keep getting caught!

  • KQµårk 死神 : I mean ‘banks are hurting too’ WTF in this day and age in front of people being foreclosed on.

  • choicelady : KQ – that was my screeching commentary about RR then. He never made a peep of protest against Clinton’s massive sell outs – and he has the NERVE to criticize Obama for not yet having unravelled the despicable mess Clinton made. Not ALL George’s fault!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cher I can’t get over how many stupid things Romney says and that includes stupid lies.

  • Chernynkaya : Hey, Sabreen!

  • kesmarn : Marcy Kaptur was a lone voice in the wilderness opposing NAFTA back in the day, KQ.

  • choicelady : Cher – I totally agree about your assessment of Mitt. Spot on!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Reich claims to be this progressive saint now but where was he when Clinton signed all those trade agreements that had no provisions for labor?

  • Chernynkaya : Cl, Mitt is a terrible candidate and politician. Truly awful–objective ly, not as a partisan. But he looks so good next to everyone else. He will be decimated by Obama among anyone with half a brain. (or about a 3/5 of the population.)

  • choicelady : Sabreen! Welcome!

  • choicelady : ADLib – EXCELLENT. Congrats all around to the girls!

  • kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen!

  • choicelady : Cher – RR is not even a GOOD economist!

  • kesmarn : Hey, KQ! Howdy back…justa minute ago.

  • Sabreen60 : Hi Everyone!

  • choicelady : KQ – LOL!!!! Thank you for verifying my feelings about RR. He’s a narcissistic popinjay, IMHO.

  • kesmarn : YAY! BabyLib!

  • KQµårk 死神 : kes when did you sneak in howdy.

  • AdLib : OT – Game over, they won! Heading home so brb!

  • kesmarn : What a dilemma for the GOP: the racists love Newtie and the rich guys love Mittens. Split base.

  • choicelady : kes – they have to wait until you’re at work. You’d blow them out of the water. They pick times you can’t show them up.

  • Chernynkaya : I don’t put much stock in Reich –at least not as a political pudnut. He’s an economist mostly.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Reich is a Nostradumbarse when it comes to predictions. He still thinks Obama is going to choose Hillary as VP.

  • choicelady : Cher – that’s pretty funny: improving his skills, weak as they are. Damning with VERY faint praise!

  • Chernynkaya : I’m starting to think all these debates are improving Mitt’s skills, weak as they are.

  • kesmarn : I’m so outta the loop, having missed the SOTU and the latest Repub debate. Why do they wait till I’m at work before they do anything fun?

  • KQµårk 死神 : 80-90% of the baggers will show up for Romney no doubt but it won’t be a turn out like 2010 at least not in the same ratio of Dems sitting home.

  • choicelady : Robert Reich says we should not want a Newt primary win – he’s too damn scary and dangerous. Not sure that’s true, but I take his point. Thought I think he himself is often a jerk.

  • kesmarn : Wow…that is weird, Cher…

  • KQµårk 死神 : After FL allot of states Romney even won in 2008 are comming up with the southern states.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes I don’t know. It won’t let me reaTweet or favorite anything.

  • AdLib : KQ – I think Romney has it locked up…and the Baggers will be furious.

  • kesmarn : :oops:

  • Chernynkaya : Good point, CL–we’re descendants after all.

  • choicelady : kes – no need, dear friend. It’s Google who should feel cheap. YOU are perfection personified.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think it will be drawn out thanks the Gingrich’s win in SC and the southern states coming up but I just don’t see how anyone else can win with all the delegates for FL going to the winner.

  • kesmarn : Hola, Cher! What happened with Twitter?

  • choicelady : Cher – that “conquering” of Mt. Everest was the Brits. We have chosen to emulate their habit of empire and dominion.

  • Chernynkaya : And kes, I’m in Twitter jail for some unknown reason.

  • kesmarn : I feel so cheap, c’lady.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes, at least it’s not crawling you! Welcome!

  • choicelady : kes – That’s so, so, so GOOGLISH! At least Google could have said “hi” to you!

  • Chernynkaya : Americans are really a war-loving nation. We use the term “war” for everything. Christ, we even “conquer” Mt Everest.

  • choicelady : KQ – Maybe Romney has it, but I’m not putting money on it. Every state is different, every population.

  • kesmarn : Google just left me…Without a word.

  • KQµårk 死神 : So who thinks Romney has this GOP nomination Gong Show wrapped up if he wins FL?

  • choicelady : kes – I hope Google deferred to you. You have standing. They just interlope.

  • choicelady : KQ – oh, indeed, but the real defection came over Vietnam I think. McGovern was the dividing line – good a guy as he was, he was not speaking their language.

  • Chernynkaya : I pout up a pretty good history of Alinsky by Angry Black Lady today for those of us unfamiliar with him. She also said what Tweety said–he was liked across the spectrum.

  • kesmarn : Good Friday evening, kids. I just crawled in with Google.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think it was allot more complex than both those issues CL.

  • choicelady : KQ – Booker is correct.

  • choicelady : Cher – Chris Matthews, with all his problems, pointed out that a whole lotta conservatives LIKED Alinsky so that’s a major stupid move by Newt. Those who know liked him. Those who don’t are just scratching their heads – Huh?

  • Chernynkaya : If people voted–and we had no Constitution–th is place would be a tyranny.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL that was the gist of Booker’s argument the 14th amendment guarantees equal treatment for all and there is one class of people that don’t get that now.

  • choicelady : KQ – I actually don’t think that’s true. It was Vietnam that lost us the white blue collar vote. He DID know he’d lose the South. But it deserved to be lost. Too bad we did not build a fence.

  • Chernynkaya : Yes CL. And it’s not just that they’re nuts. Most are really low info. Most voters don’t know who Boehner and Canter are! And that’s why I love this Saul alinsky thing by Newt–nobody knows who the hell he’s talking about.

  • AdLib : All the GOP has are lies so with that sign hung on them, they are disarmed. That’s why I think it should be a focus.

  • choicelady : KQ – American have to get this point: we do not get to vote on other people’s rights. They are guaranteed by law, period.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I just saw a pundit interview someone who said after LBJ sighed the civil rights act he knew they would lose working class whites for generations.

  • choicelady : Cher – that’s what I’m saying. Indies haven’t a clue. One way today, 180-degree opposite tomorrow. Nut jobs are not just in the rightwing…

  • Chernynkaya : CL, I’ve said this before and still think this: I don’t believe many polls. Voters are inscrutable. Anyone who tries to tell us what they think are kidding themselves and us.

  • choicelady : Cher – you can Google the vote on the Civil Rights Act, and yup – you’re right. Some PL and Emoprogs claim LBJ pounded the podium and the Dixicrats caved. NO WAY! Even Al Gore, Sr. voted against it!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Christie said that NJ should bring up same sex marriage as an election measure and Booker articulated one of the best reasons why civil rights should never be dealt with that way. «link»

  • Chernynkaya : I didn’t see Booker, but other responded. Christie knows jack SHIT about the Civil Rights movement. What a load of crap. The whole point was that Southern voters WANTED segregation you fat asshole.

  • choicelady : Cher – I read polls saying Indies are still sort of leaning toward Obama. I think they lie…indies, I mean.

  • choicelady : Hey AdLib – tell her congrats from me!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Woot go team AL!

  • choicelady : KQ – no – what happened? The words “civil rights” and “Christie” don’t fit well on the same page.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ-I have written off EVERY Repub. This election is only about the Indies–who lean right by a significant percentage.

  • AdLib : Hey CL! She just scored a basket!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Anyone see Cory Booker’s response to Christie on bringing up civil rights on a voter referendum?

  • choicelady : Cher – I was pretty sure you meant Romney. Just checking!

  • choicelady : Wow AdLib – that’s GREAT. Are you a sideline shouter or a quiet Dad?

  • Chernynkaya : CL-Romney!

  • Chernynkaya : AL–YAY!

  • choicelady : Hi KQ – always good to see you!

  • AdLib : Cher, ithey’re up 8-6!

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL welcome!

  • choicelady : Cher – you can’t stand what a blatant liar WHO is? I assume you’re not meaning Obama!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cher I’m with you. I cringe every time he lies because I know at least 40% of the people no matter what will believe him.

  • Chernynkaya : Choice!! Hi there!

  • choicelady : ADLib – did her team win? Overtime?

  • choicelady : Hi everyone! Hope you’re all well?

  • AdLib : I think there needs to be a primary focus on framing Romney as a fraud and a liar, “If his lips are moving, he’s lying.” With his image cemented as a fraud, there’s no way out for him.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cher absolutely that’s a big problem. That’s why it’s so important that we don’t let go of the true meme that Romney is a liar and other MSM memes that are developing.

  • Chernynkaya : Yes, KQ, The only reason Mitt looked good was, yet again, his opponents are so bad. Not the same with Obama! I just can’t stand what a blatant liar he is.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Obama does not invest offshore, in blind trusts, etc.

  • Chernynkaya : Is her team winning? GO Team AdLib!!

  • Chernynkaya : But what steams me is that people won’t hear the fact check. They may just watch the debate. I think all Obama can do before the debates is try to debunk the lies ahead of the debates.

  • KQµårk 死神 : In at least three places Romney’s response to ethical charges Gingrich made was ‘well Newt you are just as bad’. That won’t work with Obama.

  • AdLib : Cher – At my daughter’s basketball game. It was a half hour late today.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Obama can say it but will the media back him up.

  • Chernynkaya : Romney will be flattened. But the thing is, he simply lies about everything. I wonder how that works in a debate? CAn Obama say to him, that’s not true? Can someone call him on it in real time?

  • AdLib : Wait until Romney faces off with Obama on immigration, he’ll be flattened.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ, he could actually BUY votes in a swing state.

  • Chernynkaya : Where are you AL?

  • KQµårk 死神 : WB Cher!

  • Chernynkaya : I’m baaaaack!

  • KQµårk 死神 : If Romney thinks he can buy a debate audience like he did against Newt and debate on petty issues he’s gonna be hugely dissapointed in the genera.

  • AdLib : FYI, I’m doing this from my iPhone, have to refresh to see new comments so excuse the delays!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Like usual Republicans turn an issue like immigration into demagoguery. Gingrich just could attack Romney because both don’t want comprehensive immigration reform that matters.

  • AdLib : Romney loves immigrants in the same way Newt does, those toilets of the wealthy need lots of cleaning.

  • Chernynkaya : I’m going to clear my cache anyway. BB soon.

  • Chernynkaya : OK, will do.

  • AdLib : Cher- There is a funky thing sometimes when reloading the page. Try clicking on the Planet logo at the top then going to the page you want.

  • Chernynkaya : Just like Romney’s grand daddy did.

  • Chernynkaya : But since we’re early, I have had trouble loading the Planet again. I get the page to appear, but the circle loading icon spins endlessly.

  • AdLib : We can always self-deport.

  • Chernynkaya : I’m great AL, thank! KQ–that’s terrible.

  • AdLib : KQ – Nice to see you!!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Hey Cher for some reason your Daily Planets don’t seem to load fully on my laptop. It’s a problem on my end no doubt.

  • AdLib : Hey Cher! Doing great, how are you?

  • Chernynkaya : We can stand around awkwardly for a while, KQ.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Hey I’m unfashionable early for once.

  • Chernynkaya : Good evening! How are you tonight, AdLib?

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say hi when you arrive!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

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