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AdLib On December - 23 - 2011
  • AdLib : Bito – I think it’s going to be a very good year, thanks in part to all that you, KQuark and Kalima bring to The Planet, the community here including me! Thanks so much for all that you do and a very happy holidays to you!

  • bito : I’m still amazed that Newt missed another deadline!

  • bito : Good night my friends, and may your holiday be more than you wished for.

  • AdLib : KQ – Just realized that! 45 minutes to go here until officially Xmas eve. Will be around as well, see you here!

  • KQµårk 死神 : those darn hears and heres

  • KQµårk 死神 : Actually Christmas eve hear and you have a great one too bito and AdLib. We’ll be home Christmas so I’ll be in and out all weekend.

  • AdLib : Well, as it is the eve of Xmas Eve, seems like a good time to wrap this edition of Vox Populi. Thanks to all for a very fun edition and wishing the best of holidays to you, Bito and KQuark! Happy Holidays!

  • bito : Night Patsy and AB! Happy holidays to both of you.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Good night ladies sleep well and have a great holiday if I don’t see your icons.

  • KQµårk 死神 : :oops: looks like Newt messed up too. «link»

  • bito : ‘xactly AdLib, shows real management and organization doesn’t it?

  • AdLib : Night AB! Hope your holidays are wonderful!

  • AlphaBitch : Me too, Patsy and boys. Nice chattin’ with y’all. If I don’t get back before Sunday, Merry Merry.

  • AdLib : Best wishes for a wonderful holiday back at ya, Patsy!

  • AlphaBitch : Seriously. I think I just figured it out. She has brain damage from over-spray. (Hair spray that is)

  • PatsyT : Oh Boy I am glad I caught you guys for a few minutes.. I have to pack it in myself… You all have the best Holiday… Love to you all and Peace on Earth!

  • AdLib : Legally, Calista can ride a motorcycle as is.

  • bito : Maybe that is what she has on her head. a solar collector for her batteries

  • AlphaBitch : AdLib: Newt’s fingers are sausage like, not bullet like.

  • AdLib : AB – Calista’s hair is a protective helmet, impervious to bullets and Newt’s fingers (which are similarly shaped).

  • AlphaBitch : KQ: I guess I’d better go plug in.

  • KQµårk 死神 : That’s why you hear a buzzing sound any time she comes near.

  • PatsyT : AB LOL !

  • AdLib : And these nitwits who can’t use millions to get on ballots will know how to run the country and fix the economy? They can’t even figure out howw to get on ballots to get elected!!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : AB you need a battery change like her.

  • AlphaBitch : Patsy; Prolly looks like the old diving helmets of yore.

  • PatsyT : HA !! AB I bet she has one of those! What a thought

  • AlphaBitch : Eyes…..getting …..heavy. Must sleep now. (Channeling Calista). Now let me go find the stocking to ensure my hair will not muss.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup they still want the confederacy.

  • PatsyT : Opps .. KQ They will never get over the South getting beat by the North.

  • bito : «link»

  • bito : RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Texas Gov. Rick Perry has failed to make it onto Virginia’s March 6 Republican presidential primary ballot, and the fate of former House Speaker Newt Gingrich hung in the balance, party officials said Friday. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and Texas Rep. Ron Paul made the ballot, they said. But Republican Party of Virginia volunteers were still working late Friday to verify signatures Gingrich had submitted to the State Board of Election.

  • AdLib : Obama ran against carpetbagger Alan Keyes to win the Senate. And I believe there was a woman named Hillary something who ran in Presidential primary against him then some old man and a cazy pit bull with lipstick.

  • PatsyT : KQ t

  • AlphaBitch : Patsy: Bank of Hotel California?

  • PatsyT : AdLib that sounds like some of the Banks we have here!

  • KQµårk 死神 : WTF?! does anyone remember Obama running unopposed?

  • AdLib : Patsy – They have banks in Cuba, you can make deposits, you just aren’t allowed to make withdrawals.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I just checked a conservative blog. It’s amazing how they can turn anything on Obama. “How did we get Obama? Remember, he used a lawyer to get all his competition taken off the ballot! «link» They kept challanging the ballots of his four competitors until they were ALL off the ballot and Obama ran unopposed. Incumbants like this type of law. Party favorites like this type of law. I believe it would be reasonable to require that for any statewide or national office that at least 4 names for each position be on the ballot. No candidate should ever run unopposed.”

  • AlphaBitch : Did Uncle Woo-Woo make it?

  • bito : AdLib, not sure yet if Newt has made it either, he was too busy selling books to bother.

  • PatsyT : They have banks in Cuba?

  • AdLib : Heh! Or a Cuban bank.

  • KQµårk 死神 : :lol: he thought is was NK I guess.

  • AlphaBitch : Bito: I will, for sure.

  • AdLib : KQ – That explains it! He probably thought, “A Commie’s wealth! I ain’t gonna run there!”

  • KQµårk 死神 : I love how Obama defied the GOPTEA House and kept on the heads of HCR, clean energy and car czar.

  • AlphaBitch : KQ: The words “common” and “wealth” probably frightened his staff into wondering if that was a synonym for “socialism”.

  • bito : Give Baby Girl a hug for me. Hope school is going well for her.

  • KQµårk 死神 : It’s a commonwealth.

  • AlphaBitch : Bito – sad but true. They seem to have trouble with that, don’t they? I had a hard core Rep tell me how much he loved, loved, loved Stephen Colbert when the show first debuted.

  • AdLib : Apparently, Rick Perry missed the deadline to get on the ballot in VA. He probably didn’t know it was a state.

  • bito : AB, that’s not satire to the R’s. :lol:

  • AlphaBitch : Bito: I just made jib-jab song for my kids. I see Baby Girl tomorrow.

  • AlphaBitch : Bito – thanks. Political Science. A good song – if you can recognize satire.

  • bito : AB, «link»

  • AdLib : Not to mention Arianna!

  • PatsyT : That BFF has already put Newt in some mighty fine light

  • AdLib : And which of the Repubs said they would deport Obama’s uncle if elected President because he’s an illegal immigrant, allegedly.

  • KQµårk 死神 : That’s what I though too AdLib.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I really want to see Newt run so we can see his BFF Aryanna show her true spots.

  • AlphaBitch : Reminds me of that Randy Newman song – Let’s Drop the Big One (or something like that – can’t remember title)

  • AdLib : Trump has a contract with NBC he can’t break, he can’t legally run unless he was to jump in mid 2012. Would love it though, saw a poll where he would draw like 20% from the GOP candidate and 0% from Obama!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Let’s see Romney and Newt want to go to war with Iran, Perry Iran and Syria and Trump China.

  • PatsyT : KQ never you worry … you have not missed anything… they said Trump is going indy today on MSNBC

  • AlphaBitch : AdLib: Now that was scary! I dreamt about it for a week after watching it.

  • AdLib : I think it was Murph or Adonai who compared Calista to the martian woman in Mars Attacks: «link»

  • KQµårk 死神 : Is it official Patsy? I missed it.

  • bito : What ever is on her head, The Donald wants it. ;-)

  • PatsyT : Is everyone so excited that out pal Trump is going Independent?

  • KQµårk 死神 : It looks like they are cyborgs caught in an infinite loop calculating pi.

  • AlphaBitch : I mean combovers

  • AlphaBitch : Patsy: Tell them Trump’s lefovers.

  • PatsyT : Head

  • PatsyT : My kids have asked me … What is on her hear?

  • KQµårk 死神 : Exactly the picture I had in my head AdLib. AB see how sick our minds are.

  • AdLib : KQ – Like the scene from Scanners?

  • AlphaBitch : Michelle vs. Callista. Godzilla v. Mothra?

  • KQµårk 死神 : America would win AdLib because their heads would explode.

  • AlphaBitch : Thanks, Patsy.

  • PatsyT : Fox News

  • KQµårk 死神 : AB no worries. You don’t want to know what I really think about these Repubs.

  • AdLib : Hey, any chance we could get Michele Bachmann and Calista Gingrich to have a staring contest? Who would win?

  • PatsyT : AB that color is right on!

  • AlphaBitch : Sorry this is off color. This is why I usually am LONG GONE by now.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Actually the picture of his wife is what scared me this week.

  • AlphaBitch : Bito: Not where it matters, hon.

  • AlphaBitch : AdLib – yep. The Newt Suit.

  • AlphaBitch : Patsy: Well you know what they say: you can put lipstick on a Republican and they still ugly!

  • bito : I would need a much, much smaller size than what would fit Newt.

  • AdLib : AB – Surely you wouldn’t want to see us in our Newt Suit!

  • PatsyT : Ha Bito the answers are the same just no lip gloss «link»

  • AlphaBitch : KQ – you naughty.

  • AlphaBitch : Yeah, KQ – but I actually lived with a psychopath for nine months once – exchange student from Ecuador. I’m pretty well versed in the behaviors. Many in the GOP demo the traits, but Romney not as much to me.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I look great in a leopard onesy.

  • AdLib : Rick Perry in SC debate: “I personally believe, that U.S. Americans, are unable to do so, because uh, some, people out there, in our nation don’t have maps. and uh… I believe that our education like such as in South Africa, and the Iraq, everywhere like such as… and, I believe they should uh, our education over here, in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa, and should help the Iraq and Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future, for us.”

  • AlphaBitch : I think we should ask all the guys here (ahem – that’s AdLib, Bito, KQ & Murph) to model the newest Newt wear for us.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think that’s offset by he doesn’t tell the truth well either on the occasions when he does tell it. Wait I can’t think of an occasion.

  • bito : Longer questions but not smarter answers, Patsy

  • AdLib : Beat me AB!

  • AlphaBitch : Jinx.

  • PatsyT : Newt in a suit!

  • AdLib : Patsy – As long as I don’t have to see Newt in a one piece swimsuit.

  • AlphaBitch : Patsy – who’d want to see ANY of those clowns in gowns OR (shudder) swim suits???

  • AlphaBitch : Romney is not a really true sociopath. He does not lie well.

  • PatsyT : GOP primaries & debates = Pageant without the evening gowns and somewhat longer questions

  • AdLib : KQ – Just checked this primary schedule: «link» and realized that the TX primary isn’t until April, well after Super Tuesday. Rick Perry will be buried before TX! He’ll probably stay in for that primary but he could lose TX if he does which would be a big humiliation. So, I would guess right now that we’re down to essentially a two man race in March, after Super Tuesday takes its tolls.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The only problem when you do all it gets you is sociopath Romney.

  • AlphaBitch : Patsy! Together, again…..my deers have stopped stalling…

  • AlphaBitch : God, KQ. Paul AND Perry. Here in my state. Time to turn the light on those roaches.

  • PatsyT : Rum Balls …. Hey AB !

  • AlphaBitch : Mwah dear Bito!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Well we talked about the payroll tax fight, GOP primaries and racist Paul.

  • bito : Hello dear AB!

  • AlphaBitch : Yum! Rum….balls?

  • KQµårk 死神 : Good thing I didn’t have my rum balls yet.

  • AlphaBitch : Whatever it is, I’m with Bito.

  • AdLib : Bito – :lol:

  • PatsyT : HA !! KQ You kids are up too late

  • AlphaBitch : What’s up – I missed the whole shebang!

  • bito : Patsy! New blood, Adlib and KQ are wrong as usual, we need some fresh thoughts. :lol: :lol:

  • AlphaBitch : Ad!

  • KQµårk 死神 : AB here too! Good thing I got my second wind.

  • AdLib : Alpha!!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : We were waiting for you Patsy. ;-)

  • AlphaBitch : Merry Christmas, dear ones!

  • KQµårk 死神 : OK I rechecked the order is IA, NH, SC, FL, and then NV.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Shite looking at an old shedule

  • AdLib : PATSY!!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : SC and FL are before NV which helps Newt.

  • PatsyT : Hey guys … you are still at it .. You Rock

  • AdLib : Bito – Sounds like it’s very representative of the 30% of the country that votes Republican.

  • bito : Iowa is 91% white and 83 counties out of 99 are considered rural. How does that represent anything?

  • AdLib : KQ, very true. If Newt doesn’t win IA and is weak in NH and/or NV, SC is his firewall, as you mention. If he loses there, I think he’s gone. If he wins, he could indeed win FL then the South in Super Tuesday and Mitt could be the new underdog. That’s the scenario I hope for.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The funny part it’s the machine politics with filling the buses and stuff the GOP accuses Dems of in the genera.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Really the IA caucus is the straw poll on steroids.

  • AdLib : Whoops, I meant IA straw poll!!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : If that happens and remember how many southern states like GA are super Tuesday states. Super Tuesday could be Romney’s Waterloo

  • AdLib : The IA caucus is a total fraud. Campaigns pay for people to attend, have animal petting zoos and concerts to attract the rubes then act as if people support them when they “win” what is the most anti-democratic process, an exercise in bribery.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’m not going to underestimate the GOP machine for Romney ever again though. I did it with Perry and Newt and we’ll see with Newt but remember the machine includes Faux News and even right wing sellouts.

  • AdLib : If Newt wins SC he would likely be strengthened in FL and winning there would be a huge setback for Mitt.

  • KQµårk 死神 : That certainly looks good for Newt if he can hold on after NH and IA.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Not even mentioning IA is a stupid caucus not even a primary with like 15% of the turnout.

  • AdLib : and that poll was taken up until 12/7

  • AdLib : KQ – The most recent poll I could find was NBC News/Marist that had Newt at 44 and Mitt at 29.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Especially on social issues AdLib that’s true. NH would actually be worse to start. If they were smart but they aren’t SC is where their base lives.

  • AdLib : Bito – How can IA not be proven to be a waste of time if Paul wins, someone with zero chance of winning the nom and the GE? IA should be dead for the GOP but I hope they keep it because it forces the candidates to veer hard right and become distasteful.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Wow didn’t know that AdLib and the polls for the next couple of weeks won’t matter because of the holidays. Don’t underestimate older voters for Newt. They remember the good days when conservatives actually helped cut the budget with Clinton.

  • AdLib : KQ – There hasn’t been a new poll in FL since 2 weeks ago, when Newt was ascending. No idea where things are there but I don’t know that Mitt will be as strong there.

  • KQµårk 死神 : bito it is a joke as a bell weather already. In only 2 of 5 of the last contended caucuses it has predicted the GOP winner. Actually I think it’s a better bell weather for Dems

  • bito : Is Iowa finally cooked if Paul wins it this time? Or will the MSM still push it as a some bell-weather? It’s a joke.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I still think it comes down to who wins FL and probably then we’ll see people start to get out. True Perry wasted a bunch of money in IA and never gained traction because he thinks it’s 2000 and social conservatives matter.

  • AdLib : KQ – Agree with the proposition though Paul has no other states to excel in after IA…and will take a drubbing throughout the rest of Jan. He will be gone from contention in Feb. And Perry has money now but he’ll have to spend a fortune as he is in IA and will have to throughout Jan to try and come out with a decent showing somewhere other than IA. I think he’s Texas Toast by the end of March. And you never know, Gingrich could collapse too by then. There is a possibility that the anti-Romney vote has nowhere to go and just bails on the primary, Romney walks off with the nom early.

  • bito : C’L try putting some eggnog into your brandy, it’s not bad. :lol: :lol:

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL I sure will she added home made gingerbread cookie crumbs this year and it really mellowed down the rum.

  • choicelady : “Night bito – you are never far from my thoughts. Take care! Hope to MEET you before long! Have a wonderful holiday!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sure somewhat bito I think Santorum, Huntsman and Bachmann are out relatively early. But Paul, Romney and Perry have money. Gingrich has the buzz. They really need a 2 or 3 person race.

  • choicelady : KQ – thank you, dear friend. Since I blew two discs, I’ve had to be a bit less intense. So I am taking care. I’ve got things to DO and need the physical well being to DO them! You take care, too. And send the rum ball recipe at some point please! Tell your wife she’s a godess!

  • AdLib : CL – And pass it will! Take care and enjoy the holidays to their fullest, you deserve it!

  • bito : Always my best best to you C’Lady, you are a jewel in our crown. Sleep well.

  • choicelady : AdLib – HOPE is never far from my thoughts! You, too – we WILL bring this to pass!

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL you are absolutely a godsend. Take care of yourself. I know you are selfless but please take it as easy as you can.

  • AdLib : CL, you and your husband are simply wonderful! Have a fantastic holiday. And keep on HOPE-ing!

  • KQµårk 死神 : I mean who puts the family dog on top of the car on a family trip? See my uncle is just like Romney and his public persona and private discomfort was amazing. He had seven kids but they always went to my parents when they were in trouble because they were so afraid of him. Oh he’s super rich too but as cheap as it comes.

  • choicelady : My dear friends – I think I’m also packing it in. My husband is sleeping over at a nearby church open for the homeless – it’s going down to 25 degrees tonight – where they provided a great dinner and will have a hot breakfast tomorrow. I’m home with you all and cats. But I’m fading, so I shall bid you all a wonderful holiday and hope that all your best wishes come true. You are all the best part of my life. Thank you for being you! Sweet dreams to all! See you next week I hope!

  • bito : Ego’s aside KQ, it takes money and organization to GOTV, the field will be thinned, IMHO.

  • AdLib : KQ – Though Ron Paul may do well in IA, he will fall quickly throughout January. He won’t do well in the other three main races nor in FL, he will be out of the running, whether he quits or not, by the end of Feb. I think the TX primary is in Mar, if so, Perry will be out by April because I don’t know if he can even win his own state but I’ll bet he won’t win by enough for anyone to keep financing him. So, my guess is that by April, they would be down to a 2 man race.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think the baggers are starting to split again that’s the biggest problem for Newt.

  • choicelady : KQ – Romney always comes off as faking sincerity.

  • bito : CL. I don’t see it any other way right now. The baggers are behind Newt and the money is behind Romney, who has the possibility for a real break out?

  • AdLib : KQ – And Boehner came off as such an insincere liar when he tried to spin this as “We were the good guys but the bad guys won.” The GOP brand is profoundly damaged now in the eyes of many who haven’t been watching what’s been going on closely before.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib you are so right about narrowing the field. I just don’t think it will narrow that much because of the egos involved.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I mean have you ever seen Romney express empathy of any kind? Then there are the stories like the person who sat next to him on the plane and could not believe how plastic he was.

  • AdLib : Bito – I think we could indeed see a neck and neck battle between the Romney and anti-Romney Repubs when it narrows down to just two candidates, even if it’s Newt who just hangs in there with little money. In the end, I would guess that Romney’s money and the preponderance of the those in the GOP who would be whipping others to get behind him would win out BUT…if Baggers unite behind the anti-Romney, they could control the outcome. I wonder, the more ROmney wins and the Elite gather to him, might not the Baggers become more energized to bring victory to his adversary?

  • choicelady : bito – eeeuuuuwww: Newt v Mitt. Will there be anyone left alive at the end to run against Obama? Or just a lot of bloody stuff on the floor? One cannot even think of it as the Battle of the Titans since they are both such lighteweights intellectually and morally, but it could still be ugly. Yuck.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I know it’s the 800 pound gorilla in the room with him but his actions just aren’t that of a normal person and his petulance when questioned are signs of his insecurity. One of the things I always like about Obama the most was how comfortable he was in his own skin.

  • KQµårk 死神 : You know what the biggest sign they were bullies this week AdLib. None of them spoke to the media. They couldn’t because a secure human being faces losing with integrity.

  • AdLib : KQ – I think you’re onto something. Many of these Wall Street types or functioning sociopaths, Mitt seems not to have any empathy for real people, he has to rehearse it. That sure feels like the action of a sociopath.

  • choicelady : AdLib – that is an amazing image! Kind of gross, but amazing! Could not happen to a more deserving bunch of bullies, IMHO.

  • bito : I agree with that in early primaries, AdLib, I just wonder when the field is thins out and it’s Newt v Mitt.

  • AdLib : KQ – Agreed though I’d tweak that to say, Baggers care most about hurting Obama and denying him all they can. It is like a bully who only cares about beating up someone and meanwhile is about to get hit by an oncoming train because he’s standing on the tracks.

  • choicelady : AdLib – ah. Well I’m sorry to miss her, but I will definitely look out for the DP tomorrow or whenever it comes out. She does amazing things, our Cher. Thank you, Cher – wherever you may be. And happy Hanukkah and Christmas to you!

  • KQµårk 死神 : I expect a Bundy at the bench moment some time in the campaign.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’ll say it Romney is a sociopath. He’s just pretending to be human.

  • AdLib : CL – Nope, she may have been prepping the next Daily Planet edition (one of the crown jewels of The Planet if I may say so).

  • bito : CL. on that point, I read that Mitt will explode after PBO’s first “smirk” at one of his points.

  • choicelady : Hey all – I saw Cher logged in. Did she come into the conversation? I missed her if she did.

  • KQµårk 死神 : bito good point and it depends who leaves. Paul won’t leave and Perry probably won’t leave. So I see it as at least a 5 person field.

  • AdLib : Bito – The anti-Romney vote is between 70%-80%. Baggers represent a far bigger percentage of primary voters than they do in the GOP as a whole. Especially when it comes to GOP caucuses, they have a dominating presence.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I agree. I think underneath the superficial geniality of Romney lies a man as angry and crass as McCain – “that one”. Obama’s preternatural cool will make Romney blow. He will be shown to be a nasty man just as McCain revealed of himself. I don’t think Mittens can take the heat.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Baggers cared more about winning. Agreeing with Obama is not winning to them so they felt they lost because they did not get enough poison pills in there. That’s just how they think. It’s more about beating Obama than policy.

  • bito : How much will the baggers prevail with only 20minus% support when the field gets trimmed down?

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh exactly CL pushing the next debt ceiling debate past the election and putting the triggers in shows how good Obama is with strategy. He gave up the early battle to win the war.

  • choicelady : AdLib – the Baggers ought to WANT the payroll tax cut. Where else will they get their $40 per week from their “supporters” whom they are otherwise trashing?

  • AdLib : I am looking forward to Obama taking Romney apart in a debate, exposing his dishonesty (which he can easily get away with in GOP debates) and his fragile nature. The real pissy Romney will come out again and again and Obama will keep his usual cool. He will take Romney apart!

  • choicelady : KQ – when the debt ceiling led to the Supercommittee, few realized how much Obama had held immune from immediate cuts and then sequestration. Every program we care about save for a few are immune from automatic cuts. That was masterful. When the Dems “offered” entitlement cuts in the Supercommittee, it was extraneous stuff that COULD be cut without cutting any benefits, and the lure was to see if the GOP would give up tax increases. They knew it was highly unlikely, so now the cuts come from defense and GOP program faves, NOT from anything we all care about. Those programs are immune. THAT, IMHO, was bloody brilliant of Obama.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely AdLib. I still think he couldn’t have made this pivot too early though. He did have to push the post partisanship at least past the HCR debate even if he did not get a GOP vote. I don’t think he could have got it through with Dems if he did not give conservadems that bipartisan feel.

  • AdLib : Bito – The money is with Romney, no question. At least when it comes to Wall Street and the GOP Elite. But when it comes to Baggers, no. If they rallied behind one candidate, their backing could be formidable.

  • KQµårk 死神 : So true AdLib. Looking back the timing was perfect. Too early and Hillary would have won in a landslide. Too late and Obama could have lost the GE.

  • AdLib : KQ – This is why I truly believe that we would see a different Obama in a second term. I think he would continue with what works, having seen that standing up to the GOP has delivered his victories over them, he won’t abandon that approach. And if he has a Dem Congress, he’ll not make the same mistakes again.

  • bito : 94% of the time the person with the most money wins, so I will ask again, where will the money go in the R’s primary?

  • choicelady : No, no AdLib – you defame Palin! She can see Russia from her front PORCH. Let’s be fair here…

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’m still not sure if it was a net positive because McCain was able to use so much of Hillary’s campaign against him. But she did help him in debates especially.

  • AdLib : KQ – No question that the Rev Wright stuff playing out in the primaries, no thanks to Hillary trying to take him down over it, diffused that as an issue in the GE, it was old news by then and though McCain and Palin tried, they got nowhere with it. Instead, we were all talking about how Palin could see Russia out her window.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Yes! All those questions are answered! Obama can do ALL that and MORE.

  • KQµårk 死神 : True CL even on the debt ceiling thing we see now that Obama wins in the long run. The only thing he did lose was getting in the muck with the GOPTEA in the first place, but Obama never repeats a mistake.

  • choicelady : KQ – that is a very interesting observation. I think you’re right, and I’d not considered that before.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I’ll never forgive Hillary 100% but she did season Obama.

  • choicelady : KQ – in the whole of the past three years, Obama has “given up” one thing only – the extension of the Bush upper class tax cuts. Other than that – despite what the MSM and hair on fire progs say – he has NOT. I get purely disgusted when no one really says what amazing things he has pulled off. I have to get down into the analysis to convey stuff to my members, and I am in AWE of this president’s ability to protect and create policies that help us all.

  • AdLib : Night Sabreen!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sleep well Sabreen and have a great holiday.

  • AdLib : KQ – YES! Obama can’t win the big states, or blue collar Dems. Is he too black? Is he not black enough? Is America ready for a black President? Are they ready for a black First Lady? Do you want him answering the WH phone at 3 am? Hell yeah! “Bin Laden is found?! Let’s take him!”

  • KQµårk 死神 : I don’t think AE could be a fact because the unheard middle does not exist. Obama covers the middle and middle left.

  • bito : Good night Sabreen and I always look for and enjoy your tweets.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL I think Obama has debunked the Dems are weak on foreign policy for some time to come. Now he’s beating the GOP on the tax issue. Can any of us imagine that even a few years ago. Obama is a master strategist. I know he sometimes has to change tactics but as a strategist he can’t be beat.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – good night and sweet sugar-plum dreams. Have a lovely holiday!

  • Sabreen60 : Well, it’s about that time. I hope you all have a great holiday. Good night and stay safe.

  • choicelady : KQ -Americans Elect thinks it can not reveal its donors, but in CA they have to reveal the top two like it or not.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – CA has a law requiring the top two donors to ANY campaign be revealed. It will be interesting to see if they can find out who is behind those robocalls.

  • AdLib : CL – That is scary stuff. I think the meme back then was legit, why should America be contgrolled by a cozy two-family clan of Bushs and Clintons. After Bush, the prospect of another family member of a President taking over was very unappetizing.

  • bito : Rachel had a segment on the Hillary robo-calls and claims it’s not the R’s.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I heard some other pundit say American Elect could be a factor the other night. :roll:

  • choicelady : bito – it’s the GOPTEA wet dream that Hillary would oppose Obama. Not gonna happen – she has no basis upon which to stand. He’s done everything well, and he already proved the “3 am call” is one of his greatest strengths. To hear Santorum et al. say he’s “weak” on dealing with foreign policy is getting NO traction, and Hillary has no foundation for challenging him at all on anything.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib great point. I take that for granted but you are right.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup Obama can’t win the big states or get working class Dems to vote for him.

  • Sabreen60 : I heard them talking about that robocall on CNN or MSNBC. The call said there would not be foreclosures (and a couple of other economic issues I can’t remember) if Hillary were President. They claimed they didn’t know who was behind the call.

  • AdLib : KQ – I don’t know that Hillary would have won the GE! The Repubs had huge files of material they were preparing to unload on her and Bill throughout the campaign, they were licking their chops. What if they have something devastating? Had Hillary won, we could have had a McCain/Palin presidency, a great depression and America could be spiraling down today with no clear way out.

  • KQµårk 死神 : :lol: bito see that’s what happens when you don’t pay attention.

  • bito : What? Hillary running? Are they dreaming about a brokered Dem Convention?

  • choicelady : AdLib – and Hillary is tight with Doug Coe, leader of “The Family”, those charming C Street folks. That gives me the creeps, it does.

  • choicelady : Good night Murph – have a glorious holiday! You are a gift to US, that’s for sure. Enjoy your Christmas and be well!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Have a great holiday murph!

  • KQµårk 死神 : I know it sound contrary to what you are talking about AdLib but the AMA and Seniors were one of the keys to support. I just don’t think Hillary could have organized everyone but the GOP to push for it.

  • AdLib : Seeya Murph, have a great holiday!

  • AdLib : CL – I agree, Hillary is far more conservative and in bed with corporations through Bill (corps fund his group) so if emoprogs are pissed at Obama, they’d be apoplectic about Hillary. And yes, the Repubs are pushing the Hillary primary concept too but the MSM happily broadcasts it nationally. It’s so lame right now though, with Obama looking strong and all.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I am absolutely sure Hillary would have had allot harder time passing universal healthcare. Remember as unsavory as it was Obama smoozed the other side including Pharma, the AMA and Hospitals not to fight this. Obama knew if he got everyone BUT Republicans on his side he could pass it.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well all….got to go….presents to wrap….stocking s to stuff…really. Please know that you are all among the gifts this year has brought me. The Planet has proven to be a very good place for yours truly and I thank you one and all. Merry Christmas.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AL…yep.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Thanks for the info I know he was terrible in MA but didn’t have the details.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…the Hillary calls are RW generated. Hang up….good choice.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I only look at it from the conservative POV CL because it’s not our primary season, actually we won’t really have one.

  • choicelady : KQ – oh, I KNOW that’s not your opinion!!!!

  • AdLib : Murph – Well, we can dream but I don’t think the GOP will need to broker a convention, there will be a winner of the primary and that person will be decimated once exposed to the nation for who they really are.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I got a robocall saying “America would be so much better with Hillary Clinton as president” when I then hung up. I suspect it came from a RW source, but since I did not listen, I can’t be sure. We’d be in a lot worse shape if she’d won, I fear. She’s not very creative when it comes to economic issues.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen…no just wish the others a happy voyage in dreamitude with JB.

  • AdLib : Bito – I do agree with KQ that Mitt’s polling against Obama is shallow, just based on name recognition. Once we get into the GE and people start learning about him and what he wants to do, those numbers will plunge.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Again CL just giving the conservative base POV not mine.

  • bito : Who would Rove and the money be behind?

  • choicelady : KQ – “progressive” and “romney” do NOT go together! He was a major setback. The fact he can be tarred with that term just for living there is hysterical. His health plan is and was pernicious in how much money it larded onto “subsidized” people with copays and out of pocket costs totalling $15K per person per year. He slid by because MA has the nation’s highest rate of employer-based coverage so yeah – his mandate rests on the backs of the poorest of the poor. Bastard. He was a horrible governor and if being in MA costs him the GOP loyalty, it couldn’t happen to a more deserving slimebag.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup AdLib it’s like the infamous generic Republican that always beats Obama in polls. But Obama is not going to face a generic Republican he’s going to face a weenie like Romney.

  • AdLib : The MSM is behind a lot of the “wishful thinking” BS. They kept floating the “Might Hillary primary Obama?” BS whenever they could and are pushing the 3rd party BS as well. The MSM tries their best to cause havoc in our democracy and often succeeds.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQ and Ad… I would pay money to go to the convention you are now describing….TP er’s dressed up as 18th century patriots, main line GOPers in suits and ties (women and men) and a bunch of others just scratching their heads. And then the chant goes up…..”Palin, Palin, Palin, Palin, Palin….Perry, Perry, Perry, Perry….” The dream ticket…My dream anyway.

  • KQµårk 死神 : All this talk about brokered conventions and stuff I still give Romney about a 70% chance of going through relatively smoothly. Remember the base hated McCain too, not as much but they did.

  • bito : Mitt still polls best against PBO among R’s. Go figure.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph, I’m sorry. I thought you said Good Night :(

  • AdLib : KQ – You put your finger on it, for non-GOP voters who aren’t following their campaigns too closely, it’s all about name recognition at this point. By the time a GE is in full swing and they become familiar with Romney/Newt (and Dem/Obama ads are pounding them finally), their numbers will crash.

  • choicelady : AdLib – that is a wonderful spectacle to be sure! LOl!!! The never-ending convention! The gang that REALLY could not shoot straight. How incredibly funny!

  • KQµårk 死神 : :lol: AL and CL that would be a convention I would love to see.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh I know CL but all the base knows him for is being a moderate progressive governor of MA.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib allot of conservative do get that. One thing I agree with them about is that Romney’s poll numbers are a facade. He only polls better because dumb moderates know his name. Remember even Newt passed Obama in an early poll. Never underestimate the ignorance of the American electorate.

  • AdLib : CL – It actually would be a wonderful spectacle if there had to be a brokered candidate between the GOP candidates…and the Baggers did just what they do in The House, dig their heels in and refuse compromise! I would LOVE that! It could go on for months, a deadlock that can’t be broken because of how extremist they are! That would be so damn cool!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen…sorry. ..I guess I am on the naughty list….but I like it.

  • choicelady : KQ – honestly, Romney is NOT from MA. He grew up in MI and has UT roots. He just kinda slid through MA. Maybe that permanently taints him, but he has NO roots there at all.

  • Sabreen60 : Good Night Murph. The visual of Boehner is making my eyes bleed :) Enjoy the holidays.

  • choicelady : bito – I chortle at the idea of Cantor – a Jew – heading up the party of Dominionism and Kochs. The latter, I can see. The former – not in a million years.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The part people don’t seem to understand is that this GOP hates Romney for geographical reasons more than his Mormonism and flip flops. They guy is from MA and they hate that.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib…yes, I think you are defining the reality. It will have to be one the current crowd of dwarfs. Palin is a has been. Jeb is a wannabe.

  • AdLib : The funny thing is, Romney is most likely to win the nom but faced with that prospect, all most people can think about is, “Yeah but won’t they have to choose someone else who COULD win?” Romney is hated by most Repubs and disliked by most Americans. That’s not going to change. Obama on the other hand is remarkably well liked. Romney can’t compete on likeability…ev en among many in the GOP!

  • bito : Will Boehner even make it into the new year as speaker or will it it be Canker?

  • KQµårk 死神 : Daniels is he guy TBs would like. Christie is a media created thing the base hates him too.

  • choicelady : KQ – I will be right over. I LOVE rum balls, and if they’re THAT good, they’re works of art. Yum!

  • choicelady : ADLib – seriously WHO could unite the GOP on a brokered vote? I think the party is so divided no one will suffice.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Ah I wish I could hand out my wife’s rum balls this year. Two and you will be put out like a light.

  • choicelady : Murph – now THERE’s an interesting holiday vision! Sugar plum Boehner bum snappers. Hmmm. Is this consistent with “peace on earth good will to men”?

  • AdLib : Murph – Brokered is different than choosing an outsider. Yes, if the delegates were spread around, one of them would have to broker their winning the nom but it wouldn’t be a Jeb or Palin from outside being drafted. And realistically, it’s not going to be more than a two person race after February, the logistics just won’t allow for more than that.

  • KQµårk 死神 : It depends if it’s just the GOP they won’t care.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Many are saying Good Night…so a good night to all for whom a long winter’s nap beckons….may sugar plum fairies zapping John Boehner in the tush dance about your nodding heads.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Good question Bito. Everyone but Bachmann and maybe Santorum.

  • choicelady : KQ – I think Barbour’s racist past will keep him OUT. He’s on tape saying some disgusting things.

  • choicelady : Good night foodchain. Enjoy your holiday and don’t worry about the house – no one will notice, honestly!

  • KQµårk 死神 : It’s still a very remote possibility I think they would take a Perry if it was brokered.

  • bito : Who will even be left by the Florida primaries?

  • AdLib : Remember blowback when you consider a new face being crowned at a Repub convention. Not just how excited some Repubs may be but how angry the supporters of the one or two with the most delegates will be. They would create a civil war in their party and we know the Baggers love civil wars.

  • choicelady : ;Night Chris – happies of holidays!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib….your read on the GOP Conv. is the most likely….but what if the delegates are spread around 4 candidates….do esn’t that automatically created a brokering sitution?

  • KQµårk 死神 : It won’t be Christie either the base doesn’t like him. It would be a Daniels or Barbour.

  • choicelady : kes – happiest of holidays to you, too. Sorry your son won’t be with you, but I hope you still have a really happy Christmas! Murph – I have long been an Episcopalian for those reasons though I also go to Congregational churches (UCC) for precisely the same reason. LOTS of good people in a number of denominations these days!

  • Sabreen60 : Good Night Chris. Enjoy the holidays.

  • KQµårk 死神 : But the base loved Obama. This base hates Romney. Plus there are allot more candidates in play at least now.

  • foodchain : I did not say goodnight the way I should have: Good night to all you great folks and have the best tomorrow possible. If I don’t hop in, my best to you all

  • AdLib : Night Chris! Have a terrific holiday!

  • bito : G’night Chis.HH to you.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Night Kes I almost missed it.

  • AdLib : Remember how upset Obama supporters (like myself) were at the prospects of Hillary, who had been running in the primaries, trying to steal the nom through Superdelegates? If people were THAT furious at an existing candidate getting the nom that way, imagine how the Ron Paul fans, Romney fans and Newt fans would feel if suddenly a Jeb or Christie were crowned and their candidate, for whom they invested so much sweat and tears into, even though they won the most delegates, were tossed into the garbage. No way, will never happen.

  • Sabreen60 : Night Kes. Have a great Christmas.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Allot of the base thinks Romney is the poison and if he was not their they would feel better about their candidates.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQ….I think you identify the only workable scenario for a brokered convention…no clear cut front runner…no choice.

  • ChrisR266 : Well, my arm is tired from flinging unwrapped boxes down the basement steps. I wish the very best holiday for all of you.

  • foodchain : Glad I’m still here to say good night Kes, and very best yet to come

  • KQµårk 死神 : Put it this way if Romney wins only about a third of the delegates and it could happen. It’s almost certainly a brokered convention and if no one else has over 20% it could happen if allot of them stay in a long time.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…I am an Episcopalian because it embraces the values of the progressive church. Open hearts, minds and hands. My kind of folks.

  • bito : Nighty nite, Ms. k’es!

  • ChrisR266 : Good Night, Ks. Happy holidays and please travel as safe as you can.

  • AdLib : Night Kes, wish you a truly wonderful holiday! Sleep well!

  • KQµårk 死神 : The base would not mind if it was Romney losing out with say 25-30% of the delegates.

  • kesmarn : I think I’ll have to call it a day, too. Back to work tomorrow and then a 3 a.m. trip to Detroit to get the son on a plane for beautiful downtown Burbank to spend the holidays with his sweetie. Happy Holidays, All! I love you!

  • Sabreen60 : Good night Food. I hope you enjoy the holidays.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: They just might try in the face of fiasco in the general. But 30% of their “base” doesn’t a general election ensure, by a long shot.

  • AdLib : KQ – But doing something so unfair, dissing ALL the base that voted and using the smoke-filled backrooms at a convention to come up with a new nom would destroy the GOP, tear it completely apart and doom its nom. because, someone who didn’t have to run for a nom has no dedicated base and they’d have so many furious ROmney/Gingrich supporters, the party would blow up.

  • choicelady : ‘Night food – have a lovely holiday!

  • choicelady : Sabreen – one of the reasons that “walkaways” is the largest religious movement in America is the drumbeat that if you were really a GOOD Christian you’d be rich. If you’re poor “don’t blame Wall street, blame yourself.” People know how devoted they are – and they are still struggling or in very dire straits. The religious message just sucks, and people are leaving. Problem is – no one is out there much with open arms saying “come here and we will take you in, however you are, whatever your circumstance.” Here in Sacramento, progressive churches are thinking of advertising so those who have been so hurt by fundies find warmth and love in open minded and open hearted churches. We will see if it helps.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph we’re on the same wave length.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…I agree with your assessment re. late GOP entries….and Bush is definitely keeping himself out of the way. He does not want to be tied to the emerging front runner since, I think, he wants his own run and daddy Bush has endorsed Romney. BUT…do you think there is any chance that the GOP might regard brokered convention as a way of igniting their rabid base….I think not given the mechanics involved in setting aside all of the primaries and caucuses and how close the convention is to the GE.

  • Sabreen60 : Adlib, would that be a brokered convention?

  • KQµårk 死神 : TC FC sleep well.

  • KQµårk 死神 : It’s still a very remote possibility but remember the GOP does not care about democracy.

  • bito : Good night food, and happy holidays.

  • kesmarn : G’night, food! Sweet dreams.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The only way that would happen AdLib is if the negatives are so bad for each candidate running the the RNCC steps in.

  • AdLib : Night Foodchain, glad you could make it!

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: It is pretty damned funny. I spent 20 years doing the same for my Mother, and now he’s getting the payback. I take great cathartic pleasure in his periodic utterances of “you’ve got to be kidding me!”

  • foodchain : Night good folks, hope to vox soon

  • Sabreen60 : Well, I glad to know that people are beginning to live in the real world where you actually need money to eat and put a roof over your head.

  • choicelady : Murph – thank you for doing that even if they won’t back down. Idiots.

  • AdLib : KQ – Yes, it’s logistically possible for someone who wasn’t in the primary to be chosen at the convention but I don’t believe it’s really possible for that to happen. You can’t have any future candidates running and risking so much if it can all be wiped away and a total stranger to the primaries is chosen. No way would it happen but yes, technically it could.

  • choicelady : Chris – the image of your husband hunkered down in the basement with boxes cascading down on him is pretty damned funny! “Wrap, honey, wrap!” Hope he lives to enjoy it!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…yes I wrote Politifact and then they doubled down defending the indefensible…. so I admitted I was wrong and apologized…NOT …I and many others fired another barrage. So far, no third try from the St. Petersburg times.

  • bito : Sabreen, funk posted a new poll today showing that even among the R primary voters, the economy is close to 75% to 20%.

  • ChrisR266 : Sabreen: That’s why PolitiFact has lost credibility.

  • kesmarn : KQ posted a great cartoon. There was a car whose engine had been removed. It was still a car. And that image was compared to Medicare as the Repubs want it. Not “killed,” just no engine.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – yes, the Dominionists tend to vote “social values” over reality. No accounting for it. It is becoming less and less true however. Now that the Dems are focusing more and more on bread and butter issues, even the hard core fundies are paying attention. They’re hungry and homeless, too.

  • Sabreen60 : PolitiFact won’t retract that lie, either.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely CL.

  • foodchain : lol Chris, husband works in the basement and he’s good at wrapping. We sent him out in the late evening so the kids would never see the wrapping paper.

  • KQµårk 死神 : With one caveat I agree AdLib. If their is a brokered convention they could pull someone from the outside but still 99.9% unlikely.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Yes. And no one in their right mind would want to try to save the mess of the GOPTEA.

  • choicelady : My SS and Medicare have my NAME on them, my accounts for deposits, and my benefits based on that. That is an investment, NOT a “handout”. And PolitiFact should be horsewhipped – saying the #1 lie was that the GOP was killing Medicare is wrong. It is TRUE since if you take those 55 and below OUT, you eliminate the pool and immediately kill the benefits for those IN Medicare. You don’t have to change the shape of the program to gut it. Murph – you wrote PolitiFact, didn’t you, calling them out on their stupidity? Thank you!

  • AdLib : Once again for the record, neither Jeb nor Sarah nor anyone else could or will get into the race now. The deadlines for getting on the ballot in many major races is over and they would ensure their becoming a failure. No way, the Repub nom will be one of those in the race right now. There is no “savior” for these Children of the Damned.

  • ChrisR266 : Food: I threw boxes down to the basement for four hours today so the husband could wrap them, ha. Put him to work!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Call it expectation or entitlement AdLib but white working class who support the GOP think they are actually going to be rich some day.

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I’m sure you can speak to this, but I admit I was somewhat stunned to learn that for a segment of people, economics really isn’t the issue. These folks don’t vote pocketbook issues. They vote strictly social and cultural issues. Therefore, it seems as though they are voting against their self interest, but they don’t see it that way.

  • kesmarn : Lucky, food! That wrapping takes for-ev-er…

  • foodchain : Kes, seems so, lol. husband is a good wrapper of gifts

  • KQµårk 死神 : Exactly CL but that’s why they want to privatize and split it so the “rich” will get the private part and the “poor” will get the public part. Then they will go in for the kill and get rid of the public part with divisive politics.

  • foodchain : Choice, we’ve paid for this. this isn’t charity. Those damn liars

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, this equivalence of “the enemy” and “the poor” and “the unemployed” is evil and causes a lot of collateral damage among the electorate. GOP voters are poor and on unemployment as are indie voters. As you say, will they continue to support a party that takes their money away and calls them dirty, lazy criminals? That’s not going to grow the GOP.

  • choicelady : foodchain – have a wonderful holiday! If family are coming, make them help clean. It’s the least – the VERY least – they can do for you! Have a grand time!

  • foodchain : choice, we

  • KQµårk 死神 : Think about it AdLib Mittens has been running for six years and can’t crack 30% on a good day within the GOP. I don’t think he’ll ever get near 50% he needs his ceiling is way too low.

  • choicelady : KQ – I will need SS and Medicare, and I’m not poor. Just not rich. How utterly disgusting that they think it’s “welfare” as opposed to an investment.

  • ChrisR266 : Peaceful next few days, Food. Enjoy and relax!

  • kesmarn : Awww…food…th at disarray will wait!

  • kesmarn : I agree, c’lady. I’ve been invited to go there, and I feel terrible not being able to. But I have family members who depend on me and I can’t risk prison. Yet.

  • foodchain : Darn, I have a house in disarray, much to do before tomorrow night. Tempted as I am to stay, I can’t. BEST to all, and I hope to have to few moments to say more best tomorrow.

  • kesmarn : I hope you’re right, Chris!!

  • choicelady : kes – I have heard that. I think for women it’s especially difficult since too often the jailers are men. Gross. I have nothing but admiration for the SOA protesters and those who have been jailed for peace actions. One nun in her 80s may never get out. What courage!

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: America will not elect another Bush, ever.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The big thing as well AdLib unlike the GOP field Romney won’t have a money or organizational advantage over Obama.

  • bito : I keep checking, but I’m still not sure if Newt has qualified for the Virginia primary yet. They are still counting.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup they are starting to force Medicare and SS to be for the “poor” with the means testing too.

  • choicelady : KQ – oooo – yes. Movie theaters and jails have a lot in common, sad to say!

  • AdLib : FC – Right on the money. Mitt is misleadingly weak, he’s a facade that is easily exposed once he’s looked at from all perspectives. Newt is a train wreck. The GOP, Kochs and Rove groups will be unloading lies aplenty so we will need to work hard in 2012 but I think we will prevail by a strong margin if we do.

  • choicelady : kes – yeah I heard that about Jeb, too. Shudder. I think Jeb is NOT their savior!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I know. The equation of poverty with criminality all started with the Welfare Queen and sunk from there. Now the unemployed are being called criminals or at least grifters. And yet – these are middle class people who are supposedly the GOP “base”. NOT if this is how they get treated!

  • bito : CL, those holding cells were some nasty places. Yuck is right.

  • kesmarn : c’lady and b’ito , one of the Mercies did 6 months in prison for protesting School of the Americas. She said the worst thing was the total lack of privacy. Ever.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Kinda like old movie theaters CL.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : kes….Jeb is the Bush son who does listen to his Dad. Dad has endorsed Romney to give Jeb at least four more years to separate himself from the W legacy.

  • choicelady : bito – the overwhelming thing I remember about being arrested is how disgusting the FLOORS were in the jailhouse. Yuck. Glad my time there was SHORT.

  • KQµårk 死神 : FC I don’t know if Newt even needs to explode anymore. The negative adds from Romney, Paul and Perry are killing him. Yes he’s being swift boated.

  • kesmarn : David Brooks was implying that Jeb Bush might be their “Hail Mary” candidate. Could America possibly elect another Bush?

  • Sabreen60 : CL, Reminds me of Goldwater. He won the south, but that’s pretty much all. I was wondering whom President Obama prefers to run against?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL….the southern strategy has always been about race but with a black man in the WH who is not serving dinner or cleaning up toilets the level of anger and fear is very high. So anyone want to win the white vote there is going to have to sell electorate on their being the Great White Hope.

  • AdLib : CL – The racist “race” is on right now. Newt’s talk about “the poor” and being criminals, that’s being repeated by a number of the Repubs.

  • foodchain : Adlib, I still think this is not the politcs of prior, only because they guys are so bad and people see it. Newt might go a few more miles before he explodes, and I don’t see flippy Romney making much more than a good looking distraction; no one likes him, not even TIme Magazine.lol

  • KQµårk 死神 : Bito I was hoping you would pop in to at least say HH.

  • choicelady : bito – got that right! Going to jail for justice is a good thing. No one ever said it was fun. You the man!

  • KQµårk 死神 : BITO!

  • choicelady : Anyone – do you think the candidates will all try to out-racist one another to get the Southern vote? Is this the new GOP “normal”?

  • bito : CL, picket lines were fun, jail not so much. :lol:

  • KQµårk 死神 : I agree AdLib.

  • bito : Hello to all and thanks for the good wishes, back atcha!

  • choicelady : Hi funk – happiest of holidays and a well deserved rest! Enjoy!

  • AdLib : FC – Romney is not going to win SC so Newt looks to beat him there.

  • kesmarn : Happy Holidays, funk! Good to hear you’re getting a break. Sounds like it has been a busy year for you.

  • ChrisR266 : Joy, peace and Love to you and yours, Funk. Decompress well.

  • foodchain : HI Funk, best Merry merry

  • Sabreen60 : Hey Funk. Enjoy the Holidays!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….go ride your sleigh….ho, ho, ho. Best to you. Joy and merriment.

  • choicelady : bito – I remember your saying that! The cap makes me look like a dork, and too many flight attendants would no longer even know what it was, sigh. But I cherish it and the yellow Eastern shirt I wore on the picket lines. Ahhh – those were the days!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cheers you too Funk. Have a great Holiday.

  • AdLib : Hey Funk! Happy holidays to you too!

  • foodchain : So what will happen in SC? We are all wound up in Iowa, but I think this is just starting

  • funksands : Hi all, just wanted to pop in and wish everyone a very Happy Holidays. Can’t stay and am taking a well-deserved four days off to decompress. Everyone stay safe and have fun!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Paul is starting to show his senior moments if you ask me.

  • AdLib : Murph – Bullseye and a reason I think Paul may actually drop in IA. That CNN interview he stalked out of made him look like a fraud and a coward…and the racist ramblings in his newsletter may enthuse some loyalists who feel the same but he’ll lose many others. Who knows, maybe Gingrich pulls it out!

  • bito : CL, loved my anti-Lorenzo T shirt when I flew, free drinks!

  • KQµårk 死神 : I also think their is one uncertainty that they are worried about that is real. Europe is our main importer so I can see the worry they have for their financial woes. But hell even China is importing solar now.

  • foodchain : Merry merry Bito

  • Sabreen60 : Hi bito!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bito…..good evening and greetings of the season.

  • KQµårk 死神 : That’s what happened with Clinton AdLib and I keep hoping it will happen now. You would think they would have to jump on huge growth opportunities like the solar market for example but so far they have been dragging their feet.

  • choicelady : Hi bito! Merry merry and all that! GREAT to see you! I just found my anti-Lorenzo cap. Had lost track of it and thought of you when I found it!

  • kesmarn : Your last sentence says it all, Murph.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Paul’s response to the charges being leveled now has shrunk the man in the minds of many who admired what appeared to be principled stances on war and the military. He is coming off as a narrow minded, money grubbing, bigot who cannot face up to the flack.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely Sabreen and most of his supporters don’t even know he thinks abortion is murder.

  • bito : And to you and yours Chris

  • AdLib : Hey Bito!

  • kesmarn : Oh, b’ito, Niall Ferguson! I saw one episode of that. It’s really good.

  • AdLib : KQ – I wouldn’t put it past the corps and banks to try and sabotage the recovery but…if Obama seems inevitable…the y may give into their greed instead and not damage their own earnings. And the oil companies would become hated again if they started choking off the recovery so it could backfire.

  • foodchain : KQ, I’m waiting for someone to smack them, as I’m sure many of us are. They are twisting in the wind. Why they are so brave and bully is a wonder

  • Sabreen60 : I find it hard to believe that Paul’s followers don’t know his history or his position on the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights or Disability acts. I also find it hard to believe that they have not seen Stormfront promoting him on their front page. Which leads me to believe that his followers believe as he does or they just don’t care.

  • ChrisR266 : Happy holidays, bito.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Paul is so wrong on so many levels. Even when he’s right it comes from the wrong place like reducing the military. Anyone who equates money with freedom is beyond any redemption.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib….hope our analysis is on the mark. The power of money in legal battles is potent and they have access to a lot of it.

  • bito : The gold standard, a perfect time for me to interrupt pushing the series “the Ascent of Money «link»

  • KQµårk 死神 : They are bullies AdLib. Smack them in the face and they will back down.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- agreed the DOJ can investigate and can bring suit anywhere but it is a slow process and always a gamble….but in the old south it has right of approval and refusal regarding changes in election law.

  • kesmarn : Yes, KQ, this analyst said Paul DOES want to go back to the gold standard.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Since Paul is invested totally in gold he would have every inkling to go back to the gold standard which would be a terrible disaster.

  • AdLib : Sabreen and Murph – I do think most of the Repub confidence is just hubris. Yes, they have created obstacles to democracy in a number of states but there are many groups beginning the legal fight against them and efforts to help those harmed by them. In addition, I think Walker will be recalled along with at least one more state legislator and WI’s oppressive laws on voting and unions will be reversed. I would already count WI in Obama’s column, they don’t want more Koch brother government.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh believe me I hope you are right Chris and say if Romney is losing or it’s close the establishment republicans might do what you said.

  • ChrisR266 : There is such a misanthropic thread that runs through Libertarianism. I am surprised that more people don’t see it.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- I agree with AdLib and several others that confidence is built on sand but that will not stop them from making this a very mean election.

  • kesmarn : ‘Zactly, Chris. That’s what the analyst implied. Here’s a guy who thinks he can’t possibly be wrong. Dangerous.

  • choicelady : Murph – I don’t think that’s accurate. Any violation of voting rights comes under the DOJ. Our (California) US Attorney here in the Eastern District is investigating similar things though we don’t have that problem statewide. Any violation of civil rights is the province of the US Attorneys.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely CL and Paul said the Civil War was not worth fighting. Actually he shows he doesn’t know his history. The Feds tried to offer a financial settlement to end slavery, at least the moderates in the North did. But like all Libertarian ideas it looks good on the surface until you think about them.

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: Interesting. But Paul is a true believer. He does not think he is wrong, and never will.

  • kesmarn : It seems Paul is invested almost entirely in gold. The analyst said that this reflects his world view and he’s betting everything that his dismal world view is right. If it turns out to be wrong he will lose huge amts of $$. The expert said diversification is a defense against the possibility that you (or others) might be wrong. And Paul is NOT diversified.

  • choicelady : kes – I missed the NPR analysis of Paul’s investments. I’d not be surprised if he finds every child slave labor company and specializes in them. What did they say?

  • ChrisR266 : KQ Color you cynical, ;-) . I did say it was my secret dream. but I am not sure it’s all pie in the sky: the WSJ editorial this week was an inkling.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen…the justice department can only act as they have in SC in states under its supervision in voting matters which means mostly deeply red states. I am worried about the others like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania where block the vote could really hurt.

  • choicelady : KQ and all – Ron Paul’s racism is very powerful stuff to read. He is horrible. When Rand said the civil rights act was a disaster for private property, it said it all. There are NO private property rights in the Constitution save for two general protections IF you have it, but they act as if the Constitution gurantees property over people and it does NOT. The racism is embedded in that attitude. They’d be slaveholders were it a century-plus ago.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Chris I guess I’m cynical and think the opposite will happen. Watch gas prices spike again in the summer. $10,000 bet. :lol:

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: I missed that. What was the gist?

  • AdLib : Murph – I think the confidence you saw at the GOP rally was the same ignorant, head-in-the-sand confidence their fellow Baggers had in the House. They are deluded and actually believe the majority supports them. It’s not true and it wasn’t even true when the GOP won the 2010 election, it was a vote AGAINST Dems, not for Bagger lunacy. 2012 will be one reality check after another for these blind haters but they’ll continue to be too blind to see it and will fall because of it.

  • kesmarn : It’s really hard to pick the worst of that group but Paul is right up there. Did you happen to hear the financial analyst on NPR who assessed Paul’s investment portfolio?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…what was esp. intriguing was that there was no real interest in WHO would oppose Obama, just that one of US (the real Americans) would. They ignore their own beliefs, their own values because they hate him so…and all who work with him. HATE as a platform.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think the defense from the Paulies is almost as bad. I can’t believe Andrew Sullivan is on defense about him.

  • Sabreen60 : Murph, What do you think inspires this confidence? I don’t think they can count on their dirty tricks. The Justice Dept just weighed in on voter suppression in SC and I would think other states are will also come under scrutiny.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: my secret dream is that the corporate elite realizes that the economy is doomed if any of the GOP candidates actually get elected, and kick recovery into high gear over the next 9 months. I think it is a distinct possibility.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely Kes I think Ron Paul would actually be the worse if he got his way.

  • choicelady : Murph, none are so strong as those who are utterly deluded. I’m glad to know they believe they are in ascendance, but I think they are living in a fool’s paradise. Thank you for going and giving us the insights though. Good never to underestimate your opposition.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I mean if you sign something that’s an approval.

  • kesmarn : KQ, it’s better that everyone find out sooner rather than later about Ron Paul. He would be a disaster. And yes, c’lady, this does feel like family, no? Without the wackiness.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup Chris and it’s a drip drip drip more and more stuff is coming out like this “coming race war” newsletter he admitted signing.

  • choicelady : kes – when Ms. Asperger goes well, so goes the family. I’m very relieved for you! Congratulations and welcome back to your REAL no-drama mama family!

  • AdLib : Hey Kes!

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib he can easily point to losing over 600,000 jobs a month coming in and now jobs growing no matter how slow it is.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: About time. Did you see the clip of him walking out on Gloria Borger yesterday? He was pissed.

  • kesmarn : KQ!!! Thanks, Chris. The “let-down” is a-comin’ around Jan 2, I think. And hi to foodchain!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : What does everyone think about the Paul racist stuff popping back up again?

  • AdLib : Sabreen, I’ll bet Obama welcomes that lame attack. The truth is, if you ask, “Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?”, though folks aren’t doing great today, it is a fact that the nation IS doing better after 4 years of Obama than they were when Bush left office (we were on the verge of a Great Depression!).

  • foodchain : Kes, great evenng

  • choicelady : Sabreen – remember the GOP refusal to vote on health care for 9/11 responders and Weiner’s FINE moment when he said, if you want to do this DO it, and don’t pretend you did not have a choice? The GOP never recovered from that, and these kinds of phony arguments are no longer remotely working.

  • ChrisR266 : Glad to hear you survived seemingly sane, Kes. ;-)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Went to a GOP kickoff for 2012 rally meeting last week at the county seat. The tone is one of certainty that Obama and the rest of the Dems will be brought low in 2012 using any means necessary in order to save the country from…….(fill in the blank). I was in enemy territory so I kept my head down. But there is much confidence out there.

  • KQµårk 死神 : KES!!!

  • kesmarn : The dinner went well. Only ran out of 2 things, but there were cookies to fill in the missing dishes. Ms. Asperger behaved pretty well tonight, too!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup look at Newt AdLib. Why is he running a “positive” campaign because he does not have the money to go negative on Romney.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – the talking point about the GOP wanting a one year deal is just NOT working.

  • kesmarn : A c-c-c-cold yule here, Murph! Frosty here in Ohio.

  • choicelady : kes! Hi! How’d the dinner turn out? So glad the drama level was down. Hope everything else was an “up” though?

  • Sabreen60 : Hey Kes! Happy Holidays !

  • AdLib : FC – It’s a matter of logistics. No one can just jump into the GOP race now. The deadlines for qualifying for many key primaries is over. And negating the votes of their base by choosing a nom who wasn’t in the primaries would destroy the party. They are stuck with Dumb and Dumber as their choices so many have moved onto focusing on Senate and House elections.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Exactly AdLib and the only way the demand side grows is to get that money out of the hands of the greedy bastards and into the hands of the people.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hey Kes. Having a Cool Yule.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: You are right, I think. They hold back the economy, they get lumped into the pack that’s going to get eviscerated over all this. They got to start contributing, and fast. That will hurt the GOPTEA even more.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Chris even in GOP circles allot of them don’t like the way Romney made his money or at least rationalize it that way because they hate Romney.

  • kesmarn : Happy Christmas Eve-eve to you too, Chris,and to all the Vox gang!

  • choicelady : Chris – yes, arrogant. They honestly cannot believe that people notice they’re being sacrificed by the GOP for the sake of more money in the pockets of the rich. Some of them think the ordinary working stiff should feel PROUD to be exploited to make a few others stinking rich. I’ve heard them SAY that. And they think the working families are ingrates when they don’t take it well!

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I agree that it’s not working, but that’s the talking point. Another talking point is re payroll tax cuts is that they (Repubs) wanted a 1 year extension, but President Obama reneged on the deal. They are hoping that the American people don’t know about the poison pills in that 1 year deal.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Folks….I know I sound like a broken record….but the GOP has planned for all of this….thus the Block the Vote efforts, the faux third parties, the 24-7 media lie blitz…..it is going to be a battle….

  • AdLib : CL – That rundown is a massive indictment of the Repubs and Supply Side! There is no fact based argument to dispute that Supply Side only benefits the wealthy. None! No proof or track record, in fact, just the opposite. This should be hammered too by Obama and the Dems, the proof is in the pudding that it is a fraud and a con.

  • ChrisR266 : Happy Christmas Eve Eve, Kes!

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I think Obama needs to emphasize it’s a jobs recession not a growth recession for two years or more now. That has to put pressure on the WS types who are continuing to hold back the economy.

  • kesmarn : I just had to stop by an unwind after the holiday hoopla. Surprisingly low level of drama this year. Whew. Are we feelin’ optimistic tonight about 2012 here on the Planet?

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: got it.

  • ChrisR266 : Food: they’re really that miscalculating. I don’t think they’re stupid, probably just too arrogant to realize what is happening around them.

  • AdLib : Murph, excellent fact about Obama’s upbringing and childhood. All that needs to be done is contrast it with Romeny’s silver spoon upbringing at the same point in his life and Romney looks like the elitist he is.

  • foodchain : Adlib, Obama has it down. The bits and pieces of anger of the left cant stand up to the enormous perversness of the right

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh I know Chris. Just giving the bagger argument.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – that message: are you better off than three years ago – is not working. I am impressed that people understand what happened and who continues to gum up the works. It’s NOT President Obama!

  • KQµårk 死神 : We need to do allot more. 2008 was just an inflection point and that only if we start seeing more policies that promote economic equality. But taxing the rich more is the exact place to start.

  • choicelady : foodchain – I vote for “truly stupid”.

  • Sabreen60 : AdLid, The Republicans are trying to sell the idea that Americans just started doing badly in the last 3 years under President Obama. That’s going to be a major talking point. Are you doing better now then you were 3 years ago? They’re hoping that are memories don’t go any further back than 3 years.

  • AdLib : Foodchain – Consider this, the economy is still in a recession as it has been while Obama has been President, the Repub contenders have been bashing Obama continuously for many months, Obama has yet to even start evening out the one-sided attacks against him…and yet…he leads the Repubs in almost every poll. Wait until Obama’s campaign goes into full gear, toe-to-toe with Romney or whoever, he will dominate.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: I think the question being asked in homes around the country is “look what the hell the unbridled free enterprise system has wrought?”

  • foodchain : How can ROmney make it? And how on earth could Newt make it to the general election? I bet something else will happen. As much fun as these two are to berate, the GOP would be giving up the 2012 or they are really stupid

  • choicelady : AdLib and Chris – DAvid Cay Johnston showed that media individual income in 2003 was $65 LESS than 1973 in ABSOLUTE dollars. In 1973 I earned $8000 a year and was entirely self supporting, had a new car, and put myself through an MA degree paying out of pocket, no loans. With the individual median wage of $26,000 then, families could buy homes (in CA the median HOUSE price was around $40K), send their kids to college, pay for their needs, and save. And what was wrong with that? The rich got only 40 times more instead of 600 times more than the average Joe. Now it’s impossible for a single median income to support even ONE person decently. Disgusting.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib…here’s a factoid for you. Punahou School, Obamas school in Hi. Tuition when he went there was around 10,000. There has always been a vigorous effort to recruit kids from the diversity of the island population. Barack qualified for tuition assistance and worked several afternoons a week once he got to upper middle school to “earn” a part of his tuition. His grandparents and mom paid that which was not covered by the grant.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think we need to push the fact that Romney can’t break up American and sell all our jobs overseas to be a success.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The Republican spin on Romney is that he’s just doing what is necessary in a free enterprise system. The problem is a dentist might be necessary but it does not mean people like to go to them.

  • ChrisR266 : Part of the larger public consciousness raising has also been that we only stand a chance if we start fighting hard. OWS is bring that home. Wisconsin and Ohio have proved it. Even corporations are getting wise to the idea that if you push too hard at the expense of the citizenry, you may make more trouble than you can handle.

  • AdLib : Chris – 30 years of Repub Trickle Down and 99% of Americans have less income, savings and upward mobility than 40 years ago. The fraud of Trickle Down and making the wealthy wealthier has been exposed. Most Americans want the wealthy taxed, OWS is thriving, the fraud doesn’t work anymore.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Romney making his bones off of bankrupting American companies and sending jobs overseas is going to be hell for him and it should. He was a pirate in the system not a growth entrepreneur.

  • foodchain : Are we all i a flurry because of the media? I mean really, do they people stand a chance? Are we really that far gone as an electorate?

  • ChrisR266 : If you think about the rhetorical vision emerging from OWS and various marginalized segments of society right now, it is really all about the social contract. We slug away, slave and work our asses off, and this is what we get? Nothing but slavery to corporations? A government who won’t help when it gets really bad? Yeah, this is starting to rise in the consciousness for sure.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Chris, AdLib, as the facts and figures emerge and become part of public consciousness re. the fall from prosperity for the middle class and the loss of the dream for the lower class as a result of the “Reagan Revolution” the GOP legacy is going to be cast into darker and darker shadows.

  • choicelady : Chris – I do, too. She could tuck huge issues into a homey saying and make it all clear AND funny at the same time. GREAT lady. Sorry she’s not with us anymore.

  • foodchain : Choice, Molly Ivens was a wonderful lady. truth sayer

  • KQµårk 死神 : Bad government has always been the problem and with the GOP in office they fit their own self fulfilling prophesy. Face it real smart conservative go into business.

  • AdLib : Murph and Chris – ROmney’s silver spoon upbringing will be nailed to his forehead in any GE and contrasted with Obama growing up in a single parent household that needed public assistance. Hell, ROmney’s father was governor of MI and a millionaire!

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: Indeed. I miss her.

  • choicelady : Mitt is starting to rival what Molly Ivins said about Shrub: he was born on 3rd base and thinks he hit a home run.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: That’s exactly what I think. I think people have figured out that the Reagan legacy was bullshit for them Absolutely and utterly oppressive. They don’t have a chance.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Chris. I did and I have read the background about how he lived in apartments set up by his Dad, had a ton of walking around money, and traveled Europe during his Missionary Work….infuriat ing.

  • choicelady : Chris – I think, upon reflecting on your analysis, that yes, people are suddenly seeing that government is NOT the problem but a necessary mediator among powerful groups of people to KEEP that social contract. That may be the most beneficial thing that will come out of this. Thank you – I think that is a very powerful insight.

  • AdLib : Chris – So, this ongoing propaganda from the GOP about “Government can’t create jobs” and “Government is bad” seems to be turning people off on the Baggers who, blocking job creation, seem so obvious the cause of the things they decry. Their day is over.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: did you see the tape of Romney talking about his stressful mission year in France? It was absolutely embarrassing.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…there you go.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The Repubs have with Goldwater though.

  • choicelady : Murph – Santorum said Obama grew up in a life of privilege. HUH???

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL great question and NO!

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: you’re kind, thanks. But I really do believe that. I believe in the social contract. It’s how we manage this paradoxical experiment called The USA.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Just like in 2004 the Dem base was fired up with Bush hatred but you have to really like your candidate to defeat an incumbent.

  • choicelady : KQ – have the Dems ever equalled Newt? I can’t think of anyone that awful, not EVEN the first Richard Daley.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : My anger with Romney goes rather deep. His nipping at Obama as someone who does not understand the day to day life of the working person is bloody bullshit. Obama’s childhood and young adulthood were packed with stresses the likes of which Mr. R. could never imagine. He has been, worked with and for, been a part of the life of the poor. Romeny, a mega millionaire still drawing money from the companies he crushed into profit, dares to speak of himself as middle class. HATE IT.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Just with more flip flops

  • KQµårk 死神 : Like I said Mittens is their Kerry.

  • choicelady : Chris – that is a freaking brilliant assessment! I’d not thought about it, but I think you’re spot on!

  • foodchain : We should be laughing at how absurd the GOP line up is. When can we start?

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I “outed” myself? I cannot make Disqus let me be choicelady, do NOT ask me why!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup CL that’s why he won in a time people wanted stability.

  • AdLib : KQ and Chris – Romney is indeed socially inept and such an apparent phony. His insincere smile and laugh, especially when faced with something uncomfortable, makes him so unlikeable and untrustworthy in the eyes of the public. In a GE, we will see Romney up close and personal and watch his numbers dive.

  • ChrisR266 : Hmmm. If anything, I think the great recession has taught much of the electorate that government really does matter, and that in order to survive great upheavals, government must be there, and it must work. People are finally starting to understand what the social contract is really all about.

  • Sabreen60 : CL, I recognized your writing. I figured you and “Churchlady” was one and the same.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Hey we’ve picked our clunkers from a likeability stand point Dukakis, Gore and Kerry were really terrible politicians.

  • choicelady : KQ – I agree about the lack of “likeable” qualities of Nixon, and that is always troubling. But he had experience, and none of this crowd really does or they have the stench of brimstone about them. They continue to make Tricky Dick look like a nice guy by comparison.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL Thanks. I will check it out.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup exactly and don’t think Obama won’t remind people of that even in a subtle way.

  • foodchain : KQ, nixon is a great example of how awful they are at selection,

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: Nixon, yeah. And look what that got us? ha.

  • Sabreen60 : Chris, you must be right about Romney’s lack of social skills. It seems that his own Party members whom he has worked with dislike him.

  • choicelady : Sabreen and Murph – that is a very good site. Between it and Cher’s Daily Planet and general posts here, I have an outstanding library of issues where I send pouting progressives to get facts.

  • KQµårk 死神 : The only candidate I can think of in my life time that was not as “likeable” and won was Nixon.

  • AdLib : Sabreen, I like Deaniac and TPV is a fave colleague of ours. Great site!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen…..Peop le’s View???? Fill me in.

  • choicelady : Sabreen – I see you over there. Thanks to Disqus I go by a different handle there, but your comments are always great. I’d tell you my handle, but I can’t remember it. Disqus makes me nuts…I think I’m Churchlady320 but am not sure.

  • Sabreen60 : Oops! Here’s the link to The Peoples View: «link»

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Funny about Romney and likeability, agreed. The hubby and I were laughing like mad yesterday evening trying to figure out what dinner conversation must have been like in his household. He has no social skills whatsoever.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib that’s what all the pundits never talk about and wins about every election.

  • Sabreen60 : When you guys get a chance,please read Deaniac over at The Peoples View. Read the comments, too. Great article and great comments.

  • choicelady : Murph – I WANT them to charge forward, right over the cliff. You know, like lemmings.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : THAT IS THE TEA PARTY Obama et.al. will be facing in the months to come. The “victory” in the House this week is no defeat for them just a call to charge forward.

  • choicelady : Murph – that is BEYOND STUPID! Thanks for that link.

  • AdLib : And remember, most people vote for president with likeability a big decider. People like Obama. People don’t like Romney, he comes across as a distant, fraud of a Wall Street CEO. Who relates to that guy?

  • KQµårk 死神 : This nihilism is what’s going to end the baggers Murph.

  • foodchain : Hi Sabreen!Merry merry, Happy Happy

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: see? these people are incapable of rational thought, let alone good decision making. It freaks me out.

  • choicelady : AdLib – yes, one can hammer him on the idiocy of saying it’s fine for MA but not for America??????? Same as the auto bailout. It worked but it was the “wrong way”???? WTF?

  • choicelady : Hi Sabreen!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : THIS IS THE TEA PARTY. In what could be a new high water mark of anti-Washington sentiment, the city of Troy, Mich., is rejecting a long-planned transportation center whose construction would have been fully financed with federal stimulus money. The terminal, which would help Troy become a transportation node on an upgraded Detroit-to-Chica go Amtrak line, was hailed by supporters as a way to create jobs and to spur economic development. But federal money is federal money, so with the urging of the new mayor, who helped found the local Tea Party chapter, the City Council cast a 4-to-3 vote this week against granting a crucial contract, sending the project into limbo. «link»

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think Obama can actually use both AdLib in different contexts.

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, Sabreen.

  • AdLib : Hey Sabreen!

  • Sabreen60 : Happy Holidays everyone !

  • AdLib : CL – Or how about just using HC to hammer Romney on having to lie about his support for it? It could be a constant distraction for Romney and a repeated blatant reminder that he is an unprincipled hollow opportunist.

  • KQµårk 死神 : No FC but I Got Nog.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Remember Romney is going to flip flop back to the middle after he wins the nod too. The guy is just going to come across as the candidate that will say anything just to get elected.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ho Ho Ho Food Chain

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Chris-+–greetin gs of the season.

  • foodchain : HI Murph. Got Yule

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL good point and he can only do that with Romney which is great.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQ WasHappenin

  • AdLib : Murph, thanks so much, very appreciated!

  • choicelady : Everyone – the one message I want Obama to make on health care is “Romney supported it. We made it BETTER.” Because it IS better. It’s NOT Romneycare which sucks.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Greetings Ad Lib. I was singing your praises at another site today. Sent along links to two of your major posts.

  • ChrisR266 : Merry eve of Christmas eve, Murph!

  • foodchain : What I don’t know about Hunstman is that he might not start to play big once the fools fail. It’s still early. If he doesn’t make it, none of the others are a threat

  • KQµårk 死神 : Sup Murph>

  • AdLib : Hey Murph!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hey ChoiceLady!

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, Mitt can flip and flop to try and look reasonable but over time, he just comes off as a huge phony. He can’t even get over 30% of the GOP to view him as honest or desirable, he’ll do worse with the general public.

  • choicelady : Hi Murph – glad you’re here!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yeah Huntsman stuck his finger in the eye of the base early and while he’s truly conservative compared to Romney he’s done because of that.

  • ChrisR266 : Food: I agree about Huntsman. But rationality does not seem the way of the GOPTEA for any foreseeable future.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Greetings one and all and Happy Yuletide.

  • choicelady : foodchain – I can’t figure out why Huntsman has so little traction. I’d have assumed he wasn’t popular with the GOP but would be overall with mods. And he does not do well there either. I’m GLAD, but I’m surprised.

  • AdLib : Foodchain – No worries about Huntsman, he has no constituency in the GOP. The Baggers rule and despise him for working for Obama. He has no chance.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Don’t forget flip flops will keep some of the base at home and he will look week compared to Obama with them. All Obama has to say in a debate on a question like the ACA is Romney once supported it. To sum up he offers no contrast much like Kerry.

  • foodchain : I would love Newt as a candidate. It would serve as a new low for the GOP because they don’t like him perhaps more than they don’t like Romney/mormon. Watch Hunstman. Teflon mormon

  • choicelady : AdLib – I agree totally in principle about Mitt, but I fear he can occasionally appear rational. Newt is utterly incapable of it. The “bring back child labor” issue alone is worth having him as candidate! We can have Oliver Twist imitators dog him at every whistlestop!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Romney will probably win a plurality of delegates with his NASCAR strategy. He has the money and organization to finish top three in any state.

  • AdLib : CL – Agreed, Newt is the slimiest and easiest to beat but I’m thinking now that Romney might be more distasteful to indies then we can imagine now, once his Wall Street ties and his anti-Medicare and anti-SS views are hammered. Let alone how he exposes what a fraud he is on a daily basis.

  • choicelady : foodchain – ooooo you’re raising the specter of Newt’s third divorce, this time initiated by the WIFE! Of course she’s Catholic, but hey – she’ll get lots of $$$ and can buy an annulment.

  • foodchain : I think Newt is done and I think Callista will have his pudgy behind in a vice; Romney will not make a viable-+-credibl e maybe, viable nope. Huntsman is the worry

  • KQµårk 死神 : I mean Obama will get reelected but a brokered convention for them

  • AdLib : What was quite amusing to me is that once Newt seemed to be tanking as the anti-Romney, the RW and MSM reached bck to, “Might Palin run now?” Hilarious! And all the “wondering” about a 3rd party candidate, possibly Ron Paul, I don’t think it will happen but it would be hilarious!

  • choicelady : KQ – indeed, but remember they still got Nixon and won in ’68. That’s probably not where we want to go with this!

  • ChrisR266 : back in a flash…

  • choicelady : AdLib – that is why I want Newt! He is the perfect symbol indeed. I keep waiting for him to hiss and his forked tongue to spew forward looking for prey. Ssssssss.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I almost see this as Repubs 1968 the way they are splintered.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: I agree on that. Good we’ll have some high drama at the end of the summer. They’ll be so beat up by the end of the convention, recovery is probably impossible.

  • AdLib : CL – Right now, my current thought is that Romney will get the nom but he will be dogged by Newt who will continue to run a ghost campaign which Baggers will support just to make a statement. But thinking about it, in today’s OWS America, for Obama to be running against the PERFECT symbol of the 1% could be the best possible scenario.

  • choicelady : foodchain – YOU are fantastic. It’s not easy to get the hang of this if you have a small screen. I did it on a larger one and it was MUCH better. But you’ll do fine.

  • KQµårk 死神 : After looking at the way they are distributing votes this year it really could be a brokered convention.

  • choicelady : KQ – LOL!!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Great to have you FC!

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: None of them can win this, none of them. These candidates have so trashed this election that even a white knight stepping in cannot salvage this for the GOPTEA.

  • foodchain : Hey you guys! My second time, and I’ll try to keep up. You are all so fantastic!!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I agree. Santorum just has no cred. I don’t know if its lack of chin, spine, heart, mind, or personality, but he just doesn’t get traction EVEN with the religious right. Whew! That man is pure slime.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Oh that’s the fun part CL. Seeing their heads spin like Linda Blair.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Also like you said Chris I don’t care how much it looks like Romney appeals to moderate GOP and especially independents now. His WS stuff will hurt him greatly

  • foodchain : chrisR266, I am good. So much always, family, politics

  • choicelady : KQ – I think I’d welcome Newt as the candidate, but there’s only so much I can stomach of the Dominionists deciding he gets a pass on adultery since he’s the new King David who did the same. BARF!!!! (With apologies but in sympathy with my friends who run the Biblical America Resistance Front).

  • AdLib : CL – I don’t think Santorum can continue past SC, losing the first 4 primaries by huge margins, he should be out of money and the running.

  • ChrisR266 : People are so disturbed by this uprising of such reactionary extremism on the GOP right. I think it may get crazier, but the voting population in a general election year is going to be much more youthful–and much more colorblind and rational–than in generals of the 20th century.

  • AdLib : Hey Foodchain!!!

  • KQµårk 死神 : SC is a pretty big firewall for Newt and them out would really help there.

  • choicelady : foodchain – Hi! You are so correct about Rove. This is all like Hitler trying to fulfill Nostradamus’ prophecy. You can outsmart yourself, and Rove did that. He pushed everything so far Right he raised up a legion of gargoyles instead of candidates. Cheney’s spawn.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup I was talking with Cher the other day how ironic it was that the GOP race was going to stimulate the economy. Not the right part but still.

  • ChrisR266 : Hi Food, hope you are well.

  • AdLib : KQ – I did think Newt was peaking at the perfect time but the neurotic and desperate GOP base is beyond predictability.. .I mean, Herman Cain? Newt could rebound, as McCain did, once Romney looks like he’s too inevitable and really pisses off Baggers. By SC, Santorum and Bachmann will be on the way out. Do their voters who are clearly anti-Romney give Gingrich new life or go to Romney?

  • foodchain : so it’s kind of interesting that Rove thought he set up the GOP to rule for the next many gnerations

  • choicelady : KQ – ooops I already forgot Perry!

  • KQµårk 死神 : Don’t count N-Head Perry out either.

  • ChrisR266 : It’s pretty darned pathetic when the Democratic party needs to do virtually no campaigning right now. All they have to do is sit back and keep their mouths shut. Incredible.

  • choicelady : KQ – I suspect even if Newt wins in SC, he will find he’s quickly bypassed in the racist field by Paul and Santorum.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I think so too Chris because of the environment.

  • KQµårk 死神 : I read somewhere if the GOP had gone with the rules they have now in 2008 Romney would have actually ended up with 8 more delegates than McCain.

  • choicelady : KQ – how can Romney believe you can tell an audience that corporations are people because the money GOES to people (which, palpably, it often does NOT)and think you’ve won them over? That’s sheer stupidity!

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: But he cannot win in the general. I am absolutely positive about that. So does the WSJ need to come out and say that, too?

  • AdLib : Paul is peaking but it’s still over a week until the vote and I wonder if his anti-military talk in the debate is turning off people. I mean, Repubs want war and Paul doesn’t.

  • KQµårk 死神 : AdLib SC is Newt’s firewall. If he holds there he can still win.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Yup Southern Strategy, White identity politics whatever you want to call it. And you can see Romney’s campaign is going down the exact same road.

  • AdLib : KQ – Yep, looks like Newt’s sinking but I did see a poll showing a little uptick. At the same time, Baggers HATE ROmney so maybe Romney winning will be the best way to demoralize and divide the GOP. What do you think?

  • ChrisR266 : Obama handled things very well this week. He did exactly what he should have done, and I for one am glad.

  • choicelady : KQ and Chris – Atwater may have repented, but I hope he burns in hell if there is one. Look what he unleashed!

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: Atwater. That name should go down in infamy.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Amen to that AdLib

  • KQµårk 死神 : Paul is peaking in IA. I don’t think Newt has a chance there and it’s Romney in NH. But Newt and Romney are about tied nationally.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: I mourn that rationality, as well. It takes an indescribable amount of arrogance to push the economy almost off the cliff because you’re pissed that a black man is President.

  • AdLib : Chris – If the economy can improve and Obama can continue his presidency with a Dem Congress that can get more things done (the filibuster MUST be reformed!), then I think the Repubs can be shut out of power for some time. Americans are amnesiacs, if good times continue, Dems will dominate.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL Atwater started this who identity politics on the right and practically denounced it on his death bed.

  • choicelady : KQ and anyone – I am having trouble keeping score on who peaked and waned fastest. I’m thinking Newt, but I may be wrong.

  • choicelady : Chris – back in the day, my brother applied for conscientious objector status during Vietnam. Chuck Percy, the IL GOP Senator, supported his petition. You think anyone would do that now? There were some GREAT GOP folks even when we disagreed. Can’t find a one of ’em left, and the few warm bodies who once were have themselves become corrupted by the vitriol and even the stupidity.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Well AdLib it looks like Newt peaked, huh?

  • ChrisR266 : Choice and KQ: Yes, that’s what they don’t get. People who need an extra 40 per week hear every damned word uttered about that 40 dollars.

  • AdLib : CL – I saw that weasel trying to belittle $40 going to families each paycheck. He came off as a douche.

  • KQµårk 死神 : :lol: it use to be national security but with Ron Paul that leg is wobbly

  • ChrisR266 : Too bad the GOP sold its soul to the TEA. I do think this is the end of the GOP. It will not be a 21st century political force.

  • KQµårk 死神 : There self contradictions are killing them now.

  • choicelady : KQ – three legged? Tax cuts for the rich, social conservatism, and hate?

  • KQµårk 死神 : That’s why they are having such a hard time keeping the lies going.

  • AdLib : Chris – As CL said, this isn’t a “family rated” site nor chat, we’re all adults here.

  • choicelady : KQ – but the Baggers CLAIM to represent the “ordinary American” – that smallish city or town in Ohio seems to be the standard. Those folks NEED $40 per week!

  • ChrisR266 : I was also hoping that people are starting to realize how counterproductiv e all the unbridled anger and invective really is when it comes to legislating and governing.

  • KQµårk 死神 : People don’t realize the three legged stool of the GOP is collapsing. We know it was never real but now they are starting to realize that. The only thing holding them together is hatred of Obama

  • AdLib : CL – We were here on Vox Pop a year and half ago saying that the best thing that could happen to Obama is to have these extremists expose themselves (remember how much power and popularity they were consolidating by hammering Obama and the Dems for not turning around the Bush recession?). Now, the public seems to accept that the problem with the economy can’t be resolved quickly and that the Baggers are the cause of Congress being worthless.

  • choicelady : Chris – well, it’s a very open minded family! Not to worry!

  • choicelady : ADLib – I agree the Baggers sort of fell into power. I agree we have a real chance to take back the House, and now projections are increasing control of the Senate (saw that somewhere yesterday.) I agree they got in by accident!

  • ChrisR266 : If this is a family blog, I need to get the hell off, and quick like.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL to the people they care about $40 doesn’t mean anything.

  • choicelady : Chris – isn’t this a family blog?

  • AdLib : Chris – The thing about crazy people is that they never think they come off as crazy.

  • choicelady : KQ – I cannot believe the two guys on Chris Matthews who said no one needed $40 per week. Wow – are THEY out ot touch or what?

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: Golden Dream? Ha. you are so diplomatic. I was going to say political orgasm~!

  • AdLib : CL – I don’t think the Baggers were elected because people were enthusiastic about them, they were elected by default as Americans were angry and apathetic towards Dems in 2010. Now, the public sees who these “anyone but Dems” are and they are disgusted. I predict a Dem House in 2013.

  • KQµårk 死神 : CL bingo they really do.

  • choicelady : Chris – no I don’t think they believe they’re nuts. They think America is with them. Self deception is a marvelous thing!

  • KQµårk 死神 : The baggers are pissed. The thing is they are more pissed about the budget than the payroll tax which is what they tried to hold hostage.

  • choicelady : AdLib – yes, this was our Golden Dream – the GOP eating its own.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Do you think they have any idea how crazy they sound? They just don’t make sense, not a one of them.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Cheers all! I see we are talking about bagger.

  • AdLib : The WSJ AND Rove AND McConnell coming down on Boehner and The House…an incredible and wonderful sight.

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, KQ!

  • choicelady : Hi KQ – always lovely to see you!

  • AdLib : Hey KQ!!

  • choicelady : AdLib – what amazes me is that the total lack of job growth before ARRA and this president’s policies was NIL. The private sector is growing but thanks to the cuts for SMALL business. The 1% are not doing jack even now. So how can middle class people even think the Baggers support their interests. How many 55 year olds deal with abortion or gay marriage? Not a lot, I’d imagine.

  • AdLib : Chris – I think the Baggers have always been out of their minds and incapable of empathy. They’re just in control now and the rest of the GOP is so scared of being primaried that they follow them right off the cliff…but not this far.

  • ChrisR266 : I also spent the day in wrapping hell, so I had a double whammy.

  • KQµårk 死神 : Hiya folks!

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: That WSJ thing blew me away, too.

  • choicelady : Chris – Timing. It’s all timing!

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: See what I get for some low blood pressure days in my house, LOL.

  • choicelady : Chris – you know the world has turned on its axis when the WSJ tells Baggers they’ve screwed up big time.

  • choicelady : Sorry – the “I’m not in the Tea Party but play one in Congress” guy from Staten Island both sounded like idiots bemoaning this payroll tax cut extension. Amazing!

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: I think the GOP has altogether lost their ability to measure just how much people will take. And, people (and their corporate overlords, e.g. WS Journal) has resorted to reminding them.

  • AdLib : CL – Yep, the Bagger/Corporate dogma is that money in the hands of the 99% is a waste and money in the hands of the 1% is “job creating”. Just lunacy.

  • choicelady : Chris – yes, I think it was Chris Matthews (they blend one into the next) and the TX Bagger and the

  • choicelady : Chris – I’ve tried that, too. I always choose to go without news EXACTLY when something cool happens. So I gave it up.

  • AdLib : Chris – Passed and nailed! Boehner and the Repubs look exactly like the 1% tools they are though Boehner looks weak and helpless, just asking “how high?” when the Baggers say jump. He won’t last another term.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: Did he have GOPTEA folks on or what?

  • ChrisR266 : See what happens when I enforce no news Friday in our house? Crap.

  • choicelady : Chris and AdLib – Obama was magnificent. No gloating, just firm declarations of how 160 million people MATTER for crying out loud. The GOPTEA can’t figure out what to do – on Ed I think it was (maybe Chris) one of them said how AWFUL this was – that NO one needed $40 per week, and it was going to bankrupt the nation. Tax cuts for the rich – no. For the middle – armageddon.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Got that yesterday, so they did pass it today?

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Yea! This was the best present any of us could receive during the holidays. Boehner’s press conf. yesterday was absolutely hysterical. Epic fail.

  • AdLib : Chris – Boehner did a complete and humiliating 180 and had to pass the 2 month extension of the payroll tax. A massive loss of power and face for him and the Tea Party.

  • ChrisR266 : I’m in no news Friday mode, and spent the majority of the day in wrapping hell. Did I miss anything good?

  • AdLib : So what about Obama’s coup today? Boehner and the Repubs running scared with their tails between their legs.

  • AdLib : Heh!

  • choicelady : How amazing – what talent this site has! ::):

  • AdLib : Exactly CL but no spaces.

  • choicelady : AdLib – YIKES!!! I did it!

  • choicelady : : :) :

  • choicelady : AdLib – I did not go to you-mas but to you see Santa Cruz where they absolutely, positively have NO sense of humor!

  • AdLib : CL just put colons before and after lol and voila!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I can’t do emoticons. My computer is deficient. Or I am.

  • AdLib : CL – Did you major in puns at you-mas?

  • AdLib : CL! :lol:

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Hi ya!

  • choicelady : AdLib – it can’t be you-mas. Chris lives in Ohio. You mas is in New England.

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: Hmmmmm. I gotta think about that one.

  • AdLib : Hey Chris! Merry you-mas!

  • choicelady : Chris – is that Merry Christmas Eve Eve or Merry Merry Christmas Eve Eve? Never sure of the protocol.

  • ChrisR266 : Ha, Choice! I couldn’t see myself!

  • ChrisR266 : Good evening, all! Merry Christmas Eve Eve!

  • choicelady : Hey Chris – we seeeee you. Welcome!

  • choicelady : AdLib – G-R-O-A-N!! No I WAS going to ask for the recipe, but it sounds fishy to me.

  • AdLib : Are you fishing for a pun?

  • choicelady : AdLib – is tuna ite something you had for dinner?

  • AdLib : Sweet!

  • choicelady : Doing well. All the things I was going to have to do got cancelled, and I’m in hog heaven. No obligations – can’t do better than that!

  • AdLib : tuna ite

  • AdLib : tonight

  • AdLib : Hey CL! Feeling fine tonoght. And you?

  • choicelady : Hi KQ – see you up there in the rafters.

  • choicelady : Hi AdLib – hope you’re getting better and better!

  • AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!

Categories: Vox Populi Archives

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

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