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AdLib On November - 18 - 2011
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  • KQuark : I thought I heard a bloop from VP.

  • AdLib : That wraps up this powerful edition of Vox Populi. Thanks to all for the great conversation earlier and helping to get the news out about this horrible assault on our fellow American citizens who believed that the 1st Amendment protected them. Rest well all, much to do ahead of us.

  • Chernynkaya : Night AL.

  • AdLib : have

  • AdLib : Thanks Cher for bringing this story to Vox tonight, you and everyone else has made a difference already! Sleep well!

  • Chernynkaya : OK my friends, thanks for the camaraderie. I’m feeling much less agitated. I bid you a good night and thanks again, AL for the forum!

  • AdLib : Night Murph, good job tonight! Sleep well.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Night KQ, and AL and Cher….it is almost 3 AM in the midwest and I have a Occupy meeting at 10 AM….should be very hot given tonight’s developments.

  • AdLib : Cher – You sure set the scene well. In a world turned upside-down, where lies are as legitimized as fact, the few can oppress the many behind a shield of lies.

  • Chernynkaya : One last thing, from ABL: A Connection Between JP Morgan’s $4.6M Donation to NYPD and Police Brutality. «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…another keeper from your facile mind: “When corporations are people, and a zygote has more rights than a person, and when Obama is seen as a Kenyan Marxist socialist, and death panels, and when greed is good, and pizza is a vegetable, and 999, then pepper spraying stundents at point blank range in the face is good for them.”

  • AdLib : Night KQ! Get some rest, pal!

  • Chernynkaya : Night, KQ!

  • AdLib : Force in numbers, that is. Peacefully defying and surrounding the Chancellor. And I want to see the parents of those kids coming down on her and UC Davis with both feet and lawyers in tow.

  • Chernynkaya : Sure does, KQ!

  • Chernynkaya : When corporations are people, and a zygote has more rights than a person, and when Obama is seen as a Kenyan Marxist socialist, and death panels, and when greed is good, and pizza is a vegetable, and 999, then pepper spraying stundents at point blank range in the face is good for them.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Chancellor’s letter: Lame, lamer, lamest. She is in a heap of doo-doo. Was the level of force used appropriate to the threat? No way.

  • KQuark : OK I’m calmed down thanks to conversing with good friends. Night all.

  • AdLib : They want to use overwhelming force? So should the students.

  • KQuark : Sounds like an assault case to me Cher.

  • AdLib : Cher – I hope the students and faculty set up a thousand tents right in front of the Chancellor’s office tomorrow!

  • AdLib : There is no conscience and no regret, she is patting herself on the back for “protecting” students. What about the students that were assaulted! How does assaulting them protect them???

  • Chernynkaya : I hope the students and faculty strike!

  • Chernynkaya : I hope they follow up on this! Think Progress is sending a senior reporter there in the morning.

  • AdLib : WHat a piece of work this woman is. SHe uses the same “outside agitators” ploy along with “health concerns” to justify the brutality. She should be run out of town on a tear gas laced rail.

  • Chernynkaya : Hey, jinx Murph!

  • Chernynkaya : As funk provided earlier: Case Law Precedent: Headwaters Forest v. Humboldt County, 9817250 – (2000)(9th Cir.)-The protestors were nonviolent and unarmed. None were physically menacing. They posed no danger to themselves. A reasonable factfinder could have concluded that using pepper spray bore no reasonable relation to the need for force. “Pepper spray is designed to inflict intense pain, disorienta- tion, and panic. Manufacturer’s instructions discouraged spraying the agent from less than three feet. The Sheriff’s deputy in charge of chemical agent training recommended application with a Q-tip only. A general order issued by appellee Humboldt County stated that pepper spray was to be used only as a defensive weapon, or when the law permits the use of force.”

  • Chernynkaya : That corrupt bitch is gonna be even MORE saddened in days to come when she’s fired!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Love the facebook page. Bright students posting things like: “Case Law Precedent: Headwaters Forest v. Humboldt County, 9817250 – (2000)(9th Cir.)-The protestors were nonviolent and unarmed. None were physically menacing. They posed no danger to themselves. A reasonable factfinder could have concluded that using pepper spray bore no reasonable relation to the need for force.”

  • AdLib : Letter from the chancellor at UC Davis, whitewashing the brutal attack: «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib I e mailed your statement as is to decision makers at several sites…hope it makes as much sense to them as to me.

  • Chernynkaya : oops «link»

  • Chernynkaya : «link»

  • AdLib : Sally – Of course it’s BS, they are criminal in their behavior and such people have no conscience about the truth.

  • Chernynkaya : UCDavis FB page: «link»

  • Chernynkaya : WOW!! Awesome AL!

  • SallyT : That is so BS. In danger? They are on the ground and the others are just chanting Shame on You!

  • AdLib : Cher – Yep, each day. Tens of thousands each month (many Daily Planet fans out there!).

  • Chernynkaya : AL– do we really reach 1000’s? gee!

  • AdLib : KQ – Of course but who believes the right anymore except the right? With each new lie, they enhance their connection to Baggers and carve out those who aren’t.

  • KQuark : I hope a celebrity doesn’t die by then. o.~

  • SallyT : My damn internet connection keeps disconnecting and reconnecting. It is pissing me off!

  • Chernynkaya : And again, about the BS about the cops feeling in danger–does this pig look at all concerned for his safety? This Pic says it all (same as I posted before) «link»

  • KQuark : Cher this will be spun by the right into nothing but anarchists for sure.

  • AdLib : Murph, certainly, thanks for the compliment on it.

  • AdLib : Cher – So true. And while we’re not the ones on the front lines, we’re offering our time, energy and abilities to empower them and the truth. Not being grandiose about this, we reach thousands, not millions like HP but those we network with can help get the truth out to many more.

  • KQuark : Yup that’s it AdLib

  • Chernynkaya : No, in this case that’s true. But in many other cases where the press waits “until Monday” there will be cover-ups! And I bet even with this, they can cook up some good finger pointing–and the only one who might be punished is the Spraying Pig.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib may I copy and use your comment that begins “Take a moment to consider who is covering this outrageous attack on young people”…I want to put it under the noses of several news editors (including at HP). I can rewrite to make it my own, quote it anonymously, or attribute it. Or not use it. Your call. IT IS JUST SO WELL DONE.

  • AdLib : KQ – I can create one. For Vox or for the Empire article?

  • AdLib : Cher – The problem for the Chancellor and the cops…is the video and the testimony by faculty who were also abused by police. Their lies won’t protect them.

  • Chernynkaya : AL– once again, “we are the ones we’ve been waiting for.” In so many senses now, we have to take irresponsibility . We are on our own in many ways.

  • KQuark : AdLib do you have a tinyurl I can post there?

  • AdLib : KQ – BTW, appreciated your comment at HP. The weak response to it was not surprising.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQuark….and nine of those complaining comments are mine planted in four stories with different wording….as to the experiment….by all means, free range news reporting….

  • Chernynkaya : Good coverage by the Davis Enterprise! «link»

  • AdLib : Take a moment to consider who is covering this outrageous attack on young people by their government, happening right here in America. It is indeed the folks here and our colleagues and friends across the internet on blogs. The MSM has made itself irrelevant, we are doing their job in the spirit of what journalism used to be about, serving the public interest. And we do so as volunteers, to benefit our community. The dynamics have changed, more and more, the people are now the press and the press are just propagandists.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…I don’t know how they will tidy this up. Those “kids” were no threat and no bother to anyone. This was a naked and calmly delivered show of force….and it backfired. I expect a lot of trouble from this. Good.

  • SallyT : LOL, KQ!

  • KQuark : It’s a great experiment Murph to see how much outreach we can get without the MSM for sure.

  • KQuark : It’s official AOLHP is just completely dead. We have more text on VOX POPULI than they have on the main. And about half the comments are complaints on the main.

  • SallyT : Oh yes, Cher. It will be all cleaned up and the students blamed.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQuark and AdLib…one advantage to lack of MSM coverage of this event is that “we” cover it and shape it….this has accelerated the message….Odd though how the right wing Faux News covers 24/7…$$$$$$ for propaganda…now there’s a sound investment.

  • Chernynkaya : But the problem with that way of doing “news” is, of course, by then it’s been spun and sanitized. Don;t you think the Chancellor and the police chief will have by then talked to lawyers, and covered their tracks as best they can? Then they’ll have tidy statements to give out.

  • KQuark : Not directed at you Murph just them.

  • KQuark : That’s for sure AdLib that’s why I said we won’t see real coverage until Monday.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQuark…no excuse, just what I know. I am sure they thought they had it covered on the streaming OWS live blog. Wrong.

  • AdLib : Murph, as KQ says, HP isn’t alone, part of the corporate media that isn’t there to serve anyone but their shareholders. In the old days, a news entity would cover news whenever it happened to serve the public. Now, if it doesn’t make financial sense, they just don’t provide breaking news.

  • Chernynkaya : yes Sally.

  • Chernynkaya : It’s true AL, Xeni from BoingBoing said yesterday, when someone complained about the lack of coverage, “WE are the news now.” But what happens if they turn off our wireless? Or stop Twitter?

  • KQuark : It’s no excuse Murph. I’ve seen stories this late on AOLHP and they at least have a small story with a one line headline under the main.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…the longer is worth watching…much more detail like Cher described….les s neat…even more real.

  • SallyT : Really, Cher? Is that on the longer one.

  • KQuark : Sad all the media so called left and right are the one percent who get weekends off and we won’t get the full story until Monday.

  • Chernynkaya : The blood ran to my head when one student said to that pig, don’t you have children?!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib…you nailed it. HP on a weekend night is like MSNBC showing lockup….not ready for breaking news.

  • AdLib : Cher – No one NEEDS the MSM for news anymore.

  • Chernynkaya : I know what you mean AL, but they have the mentality and soulessness of mercenaries.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…the longer version is worse than the one you posted earlier. I agree. It is also clearer how quickly the police realize they are in trouble. You can see the crowd growing in this one. And, as my associate from out there told me, all that the students were doing was blocking a sidewalk…it was symbolic. “Who’s University. Our University.” Shame on the police and on those who gave them their orders. And the call out where the people’s mic told them they could go in peace…remarkab le.

  • AdLib : And yes, these cops are pigs. LAPD have acted like the professionals they are but these cops are pigs. And the one who sprayed them looks just like the pig he is.

  • Chernynkaya : I know Sally! Nor MSNBC. In all honesty, I use Twitter for news, and I know it hours if not a day before it’s widely reported.

  • AdLib : Cher – I don’t see any professional training in these pigs.

  • SallyT : Isn’t it amazing that CNN no longer has live news.

  • Chernynkaya : Were the cops trained by Xe?

  • Chernynkaya : those cops are cowardly sick fucks.

  • Chernynkaya : Honestly Murph, that is still practically unwatchable!!

  • Chernynkaya : AL– the whole thing is pure ID. There is no one thinking at all except the kids!

  • AdLib : Cher – That’s what I was thinking, who would spend tens of thousands of dollars to sent their kids to UC Davis where the Chancellor will order them beaten and brutalized?!

  • AdLib : Murph – That seems odd, they post breaking stories at HP all the time very quickly. Is it because it’s the night shift?

  • Chernynkaya : editor of Rolling Stone tweeted:Students protest tuition hikes (made inevitable by GOP tax blockade-Grover has footsoldiers in the states too) get chemically assaulted #usa

  • AdLib : Cher – Not in The Lede on NYT, can’t find the story there.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Here is a longer version of the video….more context «link»

  • Chernynkaya : KQ–never read those! it’s like stepping into steaming shit.

  • KQuark : Just a bunch of BS comments on the UC Davis video. Ron Paul is the answer. WTF!

  • Chernynkaya : another thing: parents are tweeting they won’t send their kids to Davis.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…yes HP coverage here is not what it needs to be. They have the thing on autopilot. The night editor said they are working on a “breaking story” but there are too many layers of approval to get it done quickly. AOL!

  • SallyT : Why, KQ?

  • Chernynkaya : if anyone can get past the NYT paywall, you might check “The Lede” where they usually have live updates.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I sent my summary to my social action e mail group and have gotten eight responses so far…each promises to send out their own version to their lists. Like manure let’s spread it and then watch the outrage grow.

  • Chernynkaya : KagroX David Waldman BLACK HAWK DOWN!!! BLACK HAWK DOWN!!! i.imgur.com/J3AE 5.jpg

  • AdLib : Well…HP really buried this, shoving it in an old article titled, “Occupy Wall Street Protesters Arrested In NYC At Anniversary Rallies”. Very poor journalism.

  • KQuark : Wow reading the YouTube comments is depressing.

  • Chernynkaya : I RT’d it, bito!

  • Chernynkaya : HP= waste of bandwidth still.

  • Chernynkaya : HAHA! And in the middle of my timeline is this gem: Johngcole John Cole WHO THE FUCK USED MY ABSINTHE SPOON TO SPREAD BUTTER

  • MurphTheSurf3 : HP one more time «link»

  • AdLib : Whoops! Bito beat me to it! What a guy!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : At HP…not front page, but there…«link» ww.huffingtonpos t.com/2011/11/17 /occupy-wall-str eet-protes_n_109 9616.html

  • SallyT : I just see alot of links to it on Youtube in the chatter on OccupyLive.

  • Chernynkaya : All the #ows around the country are posting the video tonight. By the end of the weekend, there will be more marches I’d bet.

  • AdLib : Should be thousands but many folks are asleep. By tomorrow, it should be in the tens of thousands if we and others keep getting the word out about it. Which reminds me, time to tweet it again!

  • KQuark : Up to over 700 on YouTube checked about 20 mins ago it was 304

  • AdLib : I abject!

  • Chernynkaya : KQ but it worked! Sounded right to me. HEH!!

  • KQuark : I think I just made up a new part of speech for “abject”.

  • Chernynkaya : S/He is worse waste than what I flush. when I’m sick.

  • SallyT : Also, how many hits has it got on YouTube? Know?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…nothing at NYT right now.

  • KQuark : Murph I would just check only to see if the AOLHP guy is just abject lying.

  • AdLib : Investing any energy into anything Coulter says is a waste. She is a waste and unworthy of attention.

  • KQuark : AdLib I just read somewhere Coulterguist flip flopped and now said Romney is the best chance against Obama. A little light humor.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kent State was Not the End. It Was The Beginning. “”Tin soldiers and Nixon coming, We’re finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming. Four dead in Ohio.” Neil Young

  • SallyT : I saw that Coulter crap on OccupyLive site. It is a hot matter on there.

  • Chernynkaya : Dammit-I hit the NYT paywall

  • Chernynkaya : I know AdLib. But she represents the BAggers and they have some political force.

  • AdLib : Cher – Coulter wants to outrage, I just ignore “him”.

  • Chernynkaya : I check WaPo but cursory. I’ll check again.

  • Chernynkaya : M/Ann Coulter said: “Remember the lesson from my book: It just took a few shootings at Kent State to shut that down for good.” «link»

  • AdLib : Cher – The MSNBC article said the NYT covered it too but it wasn’t on their front page, just checked.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I got back an e mail from HP…night news editor…they are working to get something up right now….way too late, inexcusable for a site that claims to be on top of Occupy developments and dedicated to Third World America.

  • Chernynkaya : I’ll think about the best place to learn, Murph and get back to you for sure.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ–that place id like posting on RedState.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…side note…I need some tutoring on twitter…I really am a tek neanderthal. I do not use it at all well. Can you think of a resource for me. Not now, but whenever. You seem to be “the pro from dover” in this.

  • Chernynkaya : just doing a Google search, I’m relieved to see it’s getting lots of media.

  • SallyT : CBS Sacramento online has it.

  • Chernynkaya : it helps to do something constructive Murph! I’m tweeting news outlets too.

  • SallyT : SF Gate has it on front page.

  • KQuark : I post a comment about UC Davis on AOLHP and I get a response from a troll “who cares”. That says it all.

  • Chernynkaya : MSNBC «link»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Back again. I am really so pissed off that I am just stirring up trouble. This is what I have posted at HP, Salon, Daily Beast….”UC DAVIS OCCUPY STUDENTS VICIOUSLY ASSAULTED. See it at «link» That’s the real news tonight. Chancellor’s office (530) 752-2065 UC Davis police (530) 752-1727 The officer who pulled out the pepper spray was Lieutenant John Pike. 530-752-3989 «email»

  • Chernynkaya : She did.because she’s always on Twitter.

  • KQuark : Angry Black Lady had it first us second.

  • KQuark : Got it Cher TPM is always dead on weekends but AOLHP has no excuse.

  • Chernynkaya : digby has it too «link»

  • Chernynkaya : Mother Jones got it!«link» /rScBVp TPM, nada

  • AdLib : FWIW, there’s a diary on DailyKos that carries the story but the main is “Open Thread for Night Owls – Ownership Society”, they’ve gone to bed early. Guess it’s up to The Planet to cover the late breaking news!

  • KQuark : On AOLHP’s main.

  • Chernynkaya : Here’s the front page of ThinkProgress–g uess they put the issue to bed earlier:Rep. Deutch Introduces OCCUPIED Constitutional Amendment To Ban Corporate Money In Politics

  • Chernynkaya : I’m checking other sites too…

  • SallyT : I am glad you are here, KQ! Cher and I together can get pretty mean when we are mad.

  • AdLib : KQ – Where?

  • KQuark : AdLib check my Piyush comment and icon.

  • KQuark : Yup but I would rather be with you folks. I’m too awake now anyway.

  • AdLib : Okay…I will put on my mud boots and see what HP thinks should be the top story right now…

  • Chernynkaya : @KagroX David Waldman These cops were in more physical danger from their morning donuts than the protesters.

  • AdLib : KQ – I second Cher! If you need to rest, please rest. This story will be going for the next week.

  • Chernynkaya : Davis Chancellor Katehi who called in riot police makes $400k, linked to admissions corruption at prior job «link»

  • KQuark : True Cher I just thought for once this would be big enough to cover.

  • Chernynkaya : But HPAOL is Fox-lite.Why would they give it a front page?

  • KQuark : Oh Cher I’m use to it. That’s why I’m surfing around while on VP. To relieve some stress.

  • KQuark : I mean C’Mon AOL HP they just made the Arrested Development story their main so you know someone is there. This is bad even for them.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ! Don’t make yourself ill–please, please!

  • SallyT : I won’t hit you, KQ! I promise. I will go for the wall first.

  • KQuark : Night Murph and Chris.

  • AdLib : Night Chris!

  • AdLib : Night Murph!

  • SallyT : Not that I want to hit KQ but I need to hit something!

  • KQuark : Oh is that why my heart hurts. Just had to take more heart meds.

  • Chernynkaya : Not KQ–Hit me!

  • SallyT : Cher, don’t leave me with all this anger. I might hit KQ!

  • Chernynkaya : OK, then here’s another video of Davis from the news «link» but it’s total BS.

  • SallyT : Goodnight Chris

  • SallyT : Goodnight, Murph

  • Chernynkaya : Get some rest, Murph.

  • KQuark : Vent all you need Cher.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher, and friends…good night for sure….more tomorrow I suspect.

  • AdLib : Cher – Not at all! I’m up late and the anger I feel now will keep me up much later.

  • ChrisR266 : I need to sign off, as well. The wee hours here in Ohio. Good evening and weekend to you all. May the force be with us.

  • ChrisR266 : Good night, Patsy.

  • Chernynkaya : WOW, it’s late. I guess we’ve almost vented enough? Don’t want to wear out my welcome, AL.

  • AdLib : Night Patsy! Take care!

  • KQuark : Night patsy sleep well.

  • Chernynkaya : Love you, Patsy!

  • Chernynkaya : «link»

  • SallyT : Ahhh, Patsy, don’t leave me with all this anger!

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: That would not be surprising at all. That stuff is not meant to be sprayed point blank.

  • PatsyT : OK I have to call it a night … Love to you all

  • Chernynkaya : Reprts are (no links, maybe rumors) that a couple of kids have burns from the spray and needed ER treatment.

  • AdLib : Cher – Yes, that link needs the bit.ly treatment…

  • ChrisR266 : Good evening/morning, Funk.

  • SallyT : WOW

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Back again…just spoke with a faculty member out there…she tells me that what you do not see on the video is that students were pouring from the surrounding buildings as the word spread through campus. Faculty were joining in as well. The police were forced to leave two cars behind. There is now a vigil going on outside the campus police office for the political prisoners inside. WOW.

  • Chernynkaya : KQ–it’s ridiculous. But I knew that would happen.

  • KQuark : Sorry just checking back in my login messed up somehow.

  • Chernynkaya : do I need to go to bitly to fix that link?

  • KQuark : What’s Obama suppose to do bring in the National Guard?

  • Chernynkaya : Heh! ‘Night,funk.

  • Chernynkaya : Let me try again.«link» ramento.cbslocal .com/2011/11/18/ police-defend-us e-of-force-on-oc cupy-uc-davis/

  • PatsyT : You are a great guy funk! Nighty Night

  • AdLib : Cheers Funk! We definitely need to take out the trash tonight…at UC Davis especially.

  • SallyT : Good night Funk! From your favorite young lady.

  • Chernynkaya : Good idea Patsy.

  • funksands : Guys I gotta sign off. My wife is more pissed off than I am, but still has the presence of mind to remind me that I need to take out the trash and clean the kitchen. :-(

  • Chernynkaya : AL–thought maybe smelling salts were in order there.

  • PatsyT : Cher I need a better link

  • Chernynkaya : oops-Police Defend Use Of Force On ‘Occupy UC Davis’

  • Chernynkaya : PIGVOMIT!http:// sacramento.cbslo cal.com/2011/11/ 18/police-defend -use-of-force-on -occupy-uc-davis /

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: seriously? good grief.

  • PatsyT : Call Governor Brown 916- 445-2841 Let him know what you think and go ahead and call often!

  • AdLib : Hey, my computer was just as upset and crashed, I’m back now.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris–that was from the editor of Mother Jones. Feeling are running very high right now.

  • SallyT : “Where’s Obama?” Oh, plezzzzzzz!

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: don’t worry, that chant will die off. It’s a slow news day for the trolls, so they’re biting at whatever they can right now. This stuff is poison to them otherwise.

  • Chernynkaya : funk–he went missing! :-)

  • Chernynkaya : Great, now people are asking, “Where is Obama?” as if he controlled local cops! I feared this might happen.

  • SallyT : When you watch it to the end, fatso is at the front of the others backing up and he has two cansters, one in each hand. ASSHOLE And those guns the others have are what???

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Bwaaaahahahaaha!

  • ChrisR266 : I wonder if the Governor has seen this video yet…

  • Chernynkaya : (I think reading that letter I posted sent Adlib into shock. He probably needed a drink.)

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: Thanks. Had the spraying link, couldn’t get the story link to work. Just viewed it.

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy–that’s the word I used! Jinx!

  • PatsyT : It’s like he is spraying for roaches

  • funksands : Chris, I agree.

  • Chernynkaya : Patsy–just Tweeted it.

  • PatsyT : If you want the pic again… and please feel free to share this … I am… «link»

  • Chernynkaya : Head of campus police? Other local PDs?

  • ChrisR266 : Funk and Cher: Which is exactly why I wonder where they are really getting their orders from. No Chancellor is this confound stupid.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Chris R266 here is the link to the news story «link» and the link to the pepper spraying itself «link»

  • SallyT : yah, Murph, and the police said the chanting was upseting everyone.

  • funksands : Cher, they obviously feel little fear of official reprisal.

  • Chernynkaya : What don’t those morons not understand about CELL PHONE CAMERAS?!

  • funksands : Chris, couldn’t agree more. Mr. Brown calls it like it is with serious style points.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, he’s got guts and integrity. And Murph, that news report was outrage upon outrage.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk and anyone else still here….the description of police action you provided is being verified locally…the campus police are saying they were surrounded and felt threatened….ma ny heads are going to roll over this.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: They’ve already pulled the video down. Can’t find it anywhere.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Way to go Nathan Brown. Fuck the tenure, go for the real win. I like this young man very much.

  • AdLib : Reading the letter, Cher…

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Let me try that link again «link»

  • Chernynkaya : Open Letter to Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi «link»

  • Chernynkaya : Open Letter to Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Back for a moment…here is the local tv news report….note the way the campus police shape the event in the report…http:// www.news10.net/v ideo/default.asp x?bctid=12838667 02001

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Shitstorm you got, and this is it.

  • PatsyT : “When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open thr mouths and pepper-sprayed down thr throats.” — UCD Prof

  • ChrisR266 : Something is really wrong here. No chancellor in his/her right mind would approve or even think of condoning action like this. Patsy: I agree. Where the hell is this coming from?

  • Chernynkaya : If this doesn’t cause a shitstorm of epic proportions–wel l, I will be out there marching every day.

  • AdLib : KQ – Thanks for posting it on that thread!

  • PatsyT : Chris I keep wondering … Who is telling them to do this?

  • ChrisR266 : This is waaaaay beyond what is even conceivable. What the sam hill is wrong with this police force?

  • Chernynkaya : Oh dear God! That is fucking illegal!!!I just read that they are calling for the resignation of the Chancellor.

  • funksands : cont.”Associate Professor Geoffrey O’Brien was injured by baton blows. Professor Robert Hass, former Poet Laureate of the United States, National Book Award and Pulitzer Prize winner, was also struck with a baton. These faculty stood together with students in solidarity, and they too were beaten and arrested by the police. In writing this letter, I stand together with those faculty and with the students they supported.”

  • Chernynkaya : Robocops.

  • funksands : Holy SHIT: From the letter from UCDavis Prof Police used batons to try to push the students apart. Those they could separate, they arrested, kneeling on their bodies and pushing their heads into the ground. Those they could not separate, they pepper-sprayed directly in the face, holding these students as they did so. When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. Several of these students were hospitalized. Others are seriously injured. One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood.

  • ChrisR266 : Thanks, Funk: The thread just all clicked now.

  • Chernynkaya : Oh I get it now, funk–it makes the cops anonymous! Right.

  • funksands : Cher, thats what I was responding to.

  • funksands : AdLib: ” Chris – This is what we’ve seen across the country, it clearly looks like an intentional tactic, to threaten and intimidate OWS by having ALL police dress in riot gear and have multiple weapons displayed and available for use. This is an intentional tactic, we are…at war with our government!”

  • Chernynkaya : How so, Funk. I think I missed something.

  • funksands : Ad, more importantly it renders them nearly anonymous.

  • Chernynkaya : Thanks, KQ.

  • PatsyT : Yep Sally we need some police in riot gear investigating Natalie Wood

  • KQuark : AdLib I just updated the Empire Strikes Back thread with the UC Davis video. Hope you don’t mind.

  • Chernynkaya : Remember that it’s Friday night. We need to send this around tomorrow and Monday.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Aw, couldn’t you just leave it at The Dude?

  • AdLib : To quote both Bush and The Dude, “This will not stand.”

  • ChrisR266 : I just tweeted it through HP, maybe that will get someone’s attention…

  • ChrisR266 : Good evening, Murph. I valued the time talking to you this evening. Enjoy the weekend respite.

  • SallyT : Night Murph! Awake the massess!

  • AdLib : Night Murph, thanks for helping to get the word out on this. Have a great weekend!

  • Chernynkaya : Night Murph–sorry I upset you.

  • Chernynkaya : It’s now posted by Mother Jones «link»

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night Murph All the Best

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I am signing off now….I have some late night calls to make…there are folks who need to be awakeneded (in more ways than one)…I am still so angry!!! Thanks Cher for making our last topic of the night a very important one.

  • AdLib : Chris – This is what we’ve seen across the country, it clearly looks like an intentional tactic, to threaten and intimidate OWS by having ALL police dress in riot gear and have multiple weapons displayed and available for use. This is an intentional tactic, we are…at war with our government!

  • SallyT : CNN has on about Natalie Wood. Let’s spent time and money researching that all again.

  • Chernynkaya : Funk I also Tweeted it via @you.

  • funksands : You guys really need to read that letter I just posted a link to.

  • Chernynkaya : Not yet AdLib–go ahead–I’ve been Tweeting. Or I will if you want.

  • Chernynkaya : Funk–says it’s unconstitutional !

  • ChrisR266 : Sally and AdLib: Those jokers were in full riot gear. Sheesh. Testosterone overload in the locker room, surely.

  • funksands : @cory_golden Cory Golden #UCDavis prof calls for chancellor’s resignation over arrests, pepper-spraying of protesters: tinyurl.com/bpum zca

  • AdLib : Cher – Have you posted this video on the OWS thread here?

  • SallyT : I’ll be interested to know why the police were there in the first place. Was it on campus?

  • AdLib : Murph – That’s why a judge and jury get to decide whether they used excessive force, which is the key phrase. Police have the option and authority to use force but not excessive force.

  • ChrisR266 : Funk: ignore the last post, which was a repeat. My browser just puked.

  • Chernynkaya : Take care, kes!

  • Chernynkaya : I post her link below:«link» .angryblacklady. com/

  • SallyT : Goodnight, Kes! Happy Turkey Day!

  • AdLib : Night Kes, Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

  • funksands : Night Kes!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib What is so interesting about those police brutality laws is that they work as long as brutal behavior has not been authorized by procedure or ordinance….Non lethal means like pepper spray can be misused as we have seen….I fear that under the guise of “best judgement” at the moment that which is clearly unacceptabable is still legal.

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night Kes Have the most wonderful weekend and Thanksgiving!

  • SallyT : Yes, Patsy, they are. Aren’t they on the sidewalk, too? Not blocking the street.

  • funksands : Check out Headwaters v. County of Humboldt and three other court cases for precedence on pepper spraying of passively resistant protestors. «link»

  • ChrisR266 : Same to you, Kes. Be safe, happy, and enjoy the holiday with your family.

  • PatsyT : Looking at that pic … those kids are being so cooperative

  • kesmarn : Thanks, Cher. I suppose I really should get to bed now. Work tomorrow. It won’t be easy to get to sleep being this ticked off. Totally O/T but Happy Thanksgving, All!

  • KQuark : Leave it to ABL she’s got it on her blog already.

  • AdLib : Murph – There are laws that protect citizens from police brutality. Oakland PD has paid out many millions and fired cops because of their history of brutality. Same thing happened here in LA with previous LAPDs. We do have laws protecting us but it is a much longer path.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib-+- working to change the HP culture on story at a time…

  • PatsyT : Oh those dirty protesters have no direction. What do they want? Don’t crop dust me bro!

  • funksands : We were so busy cheering Arab Spring we forgot to take out our own garbage. I’m feeling really ashamed right now.

  • Chernynkaya : Kes–{applause!}

  • AdLib : Murph – Very much appreciate your efforts on that. If good can be done through (or despite of) HP, good is good. Hope the people you contacted will help publicize this video over there.

  • KQuark : Wow it’s pretty disappointing out there. Nothing yet.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: I just looked to see if it was up on any main news sites yet. of course it wasn’t.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….my point is that the law protects the officer but what protects civilians?

  • SallyT : I remember the other night the protesters here saying to the police, “We are here for you, too! What’s the fear and why the riot gear?’ These students are going to start feeling for the police as we started feeling in the 60s.

  • PatsyT : Murph< Really that is not their main?

  • Chernynkaya : People on Twitter are sending that vid to everyone at MSNBC, the major papers and news outlets.

  • ChrisR266 : Patsy: This neanderthal is poison on a police force. He thinks he is entitled to do that. I suspect he will be placed on administrative leave tomorrow.

  • AdLib : Murph – Much as it would be gratifying to see, people shouldn’t assault police officers so I don’t have a problem with that law. There are other laws though dealing with police brutality and those should be utilized in a crippling lawsuit against the UC Davis police.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I just e mailed the story to two HP managers I know (ok, stop booing and hissing)….and said: “Where is this in ‘Breaking News Department”?

  • kesmarn : I emailed him and suggested that after he’s fired, he can get a job in pest control, but only in foreclosed empty houses, since he’s not fit to be around humans.

  • PatsyT : I’m telling you … he thinks he is crop dusting! Now who is telling him to do this?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : California Penal Code Section 12403.7 (a) (8) (g) Any person who uses tear gas or tear gas weapons except in self-defense is guilty of a public offense and is punishable byimprisonment in a state prison for 16 months, or two or three years or in a county jail not to exceed one year or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, except that, if the use is against a peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, engaged in the performance of his or her official duties and the person committing the offense knows or reasonably should know that the victim is a peace officer, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for 16 months or two or three years or by a fine of one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

  • PatsyT : Those kids will never think that same.

  • Chernynkaya : AL–Turning over the rocks is a perfect allegory.

  • kesmarn : Doesn’t he look exactly like Sergeant Schultz? (for any old enough to remember the show) and the motto fits, too: “I know nnnothing!!”

  • AdLib : KQ – No problem, I appreciate your doing that recon. As expected with HP. I’m surprised HP doesn’t run a web version of Lockup on the weekends.

  • PatsyT : Yes KQ lets see if those Progressive sites can prove their stuff

  • Chernynkaya : No KQ–I thought that was a good call.

  • funksands : Can you imagine how this must make some police officers feel to be a part of this thuggery? I have to in order to keep thinking of them as people.

  • Chernynkaya : Jesus, you’re right AdLib. Just noticed his impassive asshole face.

  • KQuark : sorry about the snark just seeing if this is making “progressive” blogs.

  • AdLib : Patsy – And look at the cop behind him, looking on matter of factly. He is just as approving and complicit. This was planned, not a rogue cop.

  • PatsyT : Sorry but those guys don’t stand a chance with all of those kids with cameras

  • KQuark : Oooo on the AOL HP page I see Arrested Development is back OY

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Patsy….the image of that overstuffed campus cop strolling along while holding the fountain spray gun trigger down….far worse than the cops we have seen who could argue they felt threatened. THIS IS PLAIN THUGGERY.

  • Chernynkaya : Wonderful idea, Chris.

  • AdLib : Funk – Yep, and to add another allegory, the OWS protest that is earnestly trying to exercise our 1st Amendment rights is turning over a rock and we’re finding out what creepy, slimy and awful things have been right beneath the surface of our society. We thought things were bad enough with corporations taking over our democracy, now we have discovered that they own our police forces too or at least, their cold, unfeeling need for power is reflected in police all over this country. As I said, here in LA, we have seen a Mayor, Police Chief and cops all acting professionally and appropriately but it is clear now that this cancer has spread deeply throughout our cities and towns.

  • SallyT : Ain’t he a brave man….NOT. ASSHOLE

  • ChrisR266 : I’m mailing the video link to our campus’ police chief right now.

  • Chernynkaya : God Patsy–I want to punch that fat prick.

  • PatsyT : Lets see if you can see this «link»

  • KQuark : funk don’t make me laugh.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Lt. Pike is about to become an infamous man. The poster boy for campus police thuggery.

  • Chernynkaya : Here’s more info where to call/email US Davis:«link» .angryblacklady. com/2011/11/18/p olice-pepper-spr ay-ows-student-p rotestors-direct ly-in-their-face s-at-occupy-davi s/

  • PatsyT : Pepper Spray Pizza !

  • kesmarn : Thanks. He’ll hear from me and a lot of others.

  • Chernynkaya : That’s a good one, funk.

  • funksands : Kes, yes he is.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : UC Davis Police are being deluged with calls…join the flood.

  • funksands : @HoustonNewsNews – “Books are trash. Corporations are people. Tents are terrorism. Pepper Spray soon to be declared a vegetable.”

  • Chernynkaya : Funk thanks! while you were away, Murph and I called. I think we should even email out cops here in LA too.

  • PatsyT : UC Davis is trending on Twitter

  • kesmarn : Is Pike the guy who sprayed them, funk?

  • funksands : Ad, what’s the old saying about pulling the scab back?

  • funksands : Here’s our man: Lt. John Pike. 530-752-3989 «email»

  • MurphTheSurf3 : From «link» “This video in a few short hours has gone viral and rightly so. This will go down in history as a moment that America realized our police forces are not only para-​military forces — and out of control, para-​military forces — but they have lost their souls. Xeni Jardin at Boing Boing calls this video an “iconic, viral emblem accross the web,” [sic] and wrote of the police action, “it’s as if he’s dousing a row of bugs with insecticide.” On Twitter Jardin added, “it’s as if they were bugs to be doused with Raid.”

  • AdLib : Sally – Very sad but very possibly true, OWS sympathizers in red states are seeing what police in liberal cities do, they have to be very worried about what a redneck police force would do to protesters. Except for LA and Vegas so far, where the hell is the professionalism we hear so much about when it comes to police? Appropriate Force is what they’re supposed to be experts at and what we see again and again is excessive force. We do live in a scary nation, we’re finding out just how scary and oppressive right now.

  • Chernynkaya : AL, no not yet thank God. But As others said, if they have weapons, one sadistic idiot will use them. As an aside, the thing that stays with me about that vid–as much as the horrible spray, was how the cops backed off in fear, and how that one student thought to tell them “You can leave now.” in the mic check manner. Wow, he was an amazing young man to think that calmly.

  • kesmarn : funk, that says a lot, doesn’t it? Kind of a “welcome to my world” statement.

  • ChrisR266 : Funk: That is a magnificent tweet. And, one that will make people think.

  • SallyT : Portland is liberal but our state capitol isn’t.

  • funksands : This gave me a sardonic chuckle: @elonjames- “Oh? The NYPD are treating you badly? Violent for no reason? Weird.” – Black People

  • kesmarn : Police at Occupy Toledo have been very cool.But they also needed the votes of the left to protect their union’s collective bargaining rights. Right before the election NOBODY was getting pulled over for traffic violations. Today I saw 5.

  • KQuark : Everything I’ve seen on the local news in Atlanta is that the protesters are compliant when arrested they just fill the buses orderly. But I think that comes from the Civil Rights culture of protesting down here.

  • Chernynkaya : That fat pig was really outraged that they peacefully sat there.

  • SallyT : I think the people in Red States know they will get shot if they protest.’

  • AdLib : Police might not differ from city to city but mayors and police chiefs do. We haven’t seen this kind of brutality in LA.

  • ChrisR266 : Funk: They are. They are maybe the most telling indicators of the oxymoronic political and social climate right now.

  • funksands : That’ll teach those kids to make someone bend over to arrest them.

  • kesmarn : Cher, good tweet. The people who are going to protect this cops job are not right wingers. They sure know how to bite the hand that feeds them.

  • PatsyT : Geez Cher those kids want to see him get fair pay and retirement

  • Chernynkaya : Al–that’s it–we never knew. That’s why this getting arrested and civil disobedience is not for nothing!

  • ChrisR266 : Funk: excellent question. I suspect something else, especially since the cameras are on the larger crowds. And Sally is right, Chambers bear pressure on city politics. Police are police, though. They’re not any smarter in blue states. They’re all police.

  • funksands : Ad, why should we expect that? I’m beginning to think that our police forces are solidly purple.

  • KQuark : AdLib there is nothing liberal about law enforcement in general.

  • Chernynkaya : Just read this Tweet: When he’s put on administrative leave, his union will have his back. Hope he doesn’t pepper spray them.

  • AdLib : Funk – I am stunned that this is happening in Berkeley and Davis and NYC…some of the most liberal areas of the nation are practicing such brutality…one should worry what would happen in TX to protesters there or in Alabama. This is the America we’ve been living in, we just didn’t know it when we weren’t out in the streets protesting.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk….blue states are where Occupy is most active and the police culture is the same across the country……so blue police act like red police only there is less action in the red states…

  • SallyT : I said that the Chamber of Commerce still has control in blue states. Not local CoC but the National.

  • funksands : “Why does it seem that most of the police violence is taking place in blue states? Is that simply because the crowds are larger? Or something else? Or my imagination?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk…good advice….I will….

  • KQuark : Sorry back just reading the twitter wire saw your’s funk.

  • ChrisR266 : Funk: Hi, dude. What was your question?”

  • funksands : Murph, you might be right. Tough call. Ask him.

  • Chernynkaya : Thanks, AdLib. I was just turning off the computer, saw a Tweet message and clicked. I’m awake now!

  • PatsyT : Funk Good Qustion

  • MurphTheSurf3 : funk…it’s an e mail sent to me personally…I probably should not have shared it so quickly here….very emotional reaction on my part (and maybe the chief’s too)…what do you think?

  • SallyT : Huh, Funk? I missed it.

  • ChrisR266 : Law enforcement is one the most firmly entrenched, traditional aspirations left. Until very smart youth decide that in order to change law enforcement they need to become part of law enforcement, it will remain entrenched.

  • funksands : Sally, any theories on my question?

  • SallyT : Yes, the crowds are large in the blue states but even here the Chamber of Commerce has much control.

  • AdLib : Cher, really appreciate your sharing it. As I keep trying to think there must be a limit to the extremes OWS will be subjected to, it’s a sobering reminder that there isn’t. And the death of an OWS protester at the hands of police is unfortunately,no t hard to imagine.

  • funksands : Murph, can you tweet the Chiefs response to you please?

  • Chernynkaya : Sally–very scary.

  • kesmarn : They protect bullies and bully the innocent. I think there’s massive, massive corruption in policing across the country. Look at Arpaio in AZ. And here we had a county sheriff who covered up a jail house murder by his men and never served a day in prison. Walked. It’s everywhere.

  • funksands : Ad, is it strange that most of the police actions seem to be taking place in blue states, or is that simply because the crowds are larger?

  • SallyT : The scary thing here is the chief has asked for assistance from Dallas police. NOT TEXANS!

  • ChrisR266 : Murph and Cher: That’s why social media is our godsend–it documents irrefutably that what police do is unprovoked.

  • Chernynkaya : I will Sally. I am also going to Tweet that several times tommorow.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…for me it was a flashback to a campus sit in in 1968 when the police rushed us….just because they could…horrible memory.

  • AdLib : Chris – Right now it’s pepper spray. In some of the very conservative, Republican cities, I am concerned that it may become more dangerous than that. I fear, there will be one or more deaths with such unrestrained police sadism and violence.

  • SallyT : Cher, be sure to post on the main site, too.

  • ChrisR266 : Cher: Drink.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: Exactly. Policing has not changed. Not one iota. It just has more layers between us and the bullets now.

  • Chernynkaya : I’m just so glad you guys were still online. I was shaking with rage and feel better to have shared that monstrosity. (Heh–misery loves company, huh?)

  • SallyT : They have used rubber bullets.

  • AdLib : Chris – Sad but true. There has been no evolution in the mindset of policing. Those who have a Constitutional right to protest are treated like violent criminals purely for not abdicating their rights when police and mayors demand that they do so. I am so angry.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: I don’t disagree. That’s my point, if you get my drift.

  • Chernynkaya : I hear that, Chris. But if pepper spray doesn’t stop them, they WILL use bullets.

  • funksands : Murph, can you tweet the Chief’s response?

  • SallyT : But, Chris, our National Guard are in Iraq and Afgans

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: it has always been this way. We’ve just not experienced the consequences of that for a long time.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Chris…I fear if they could, they would…FIRE!

  • PatsyT : It’s like the guy was crop dusting

  • SallyT : Chris, I don’t know…..it could happen.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : SALLY…send it to your mayor…he seems to be on the proper side of things.

  • SallyT : Amen, AdLib!

  • ChrisR266 : I hope you all don’t take this wrong, but it’s good that it’s pepper spray and such. Remember, at kent state, it was bullets.

  • PatsyT : what

  • AdLib : Sally – But what we do clearly have is a tyranny of the minority against the majority. A violent and brutal police infrastructure that comes down viciously on peacefully protesting Americans. This is an outrage and a travesty of American justice and values.

  • SallyT : Way to go, Murph. I would send it to Ptld’s but he would use it to train on how to do it!

  • PatsyT : I wonder wart corporation makes that pepper spray?

  • Chernynkaya : WOW.Murph-outsta nding!

  • ChrisR266 : Bravo Murph!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher….WOW! Just got back a response from the Chief of the SLU campus police. “This will be a training film for all my officers AM and PM tomorrow. WHAT NOT TO DO UNLESS YOU WANT TO LOSE YOUR JOB AND BE ARRESTED FOR ABUSE OF AUTHORITY!”

  • SallyT : Look, don’t take anything I am saying to be against Obama but really we preach but don’t practice to the world.

  • Chernynkaya : I guess you’re right AL. But it only makes people more defiant. It does me.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: that’s what law enforcement does. They know no other way. And, they haven’t had much reason to learn another way. Things have been quiet here for 40 years.

  • SallyT : Yes, we don’t have a dictator but our government doesn’t care about the needs of its people.

  • AdLib : Cher – I think the Police Chief gives them guidelines for use of force, we’ve seen the same brutality all across the country. I think these mayors and Police Chiefs are sold on using overwhelming force to intimidate and scare off the movement.

  • Chernynkaya : Good job,Murph. we can’t let this stand.

  • SallyT : AdLib, that is how I see the rest of the world seeing us! Our government is no better.

  • ChrisR266 : Sally: The protests are about internal problems now, about the rot within. It feels and is substantially different now than the last time. There’s a “rightness” to OWS that those last protests couldn’t corner and exploit in the 60s.

  • Chernynkaya : Murph Twitter is on fire. I am enraged too.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher….I just sent out the link with a note to the Mayor in St. Louis and to the Campus Police at SLU and Washington U. I am also sending it to three dozen Occupy think tankers I know.

  • AdLib : Sally, Damn straight! Maybe OWS should do some PR stunts too, like writing Libya to ask if they could send the drones over here to protect our people from brutal attacks.

  • Chernynkaya : I want the movement to grow enormously now more than ever. If we stay non-violent–and weren’t those students outstanding?–we will absolutely win.

  • AdLib : Cher – Add to family, friends, classmates, families and friends of classmates, college students around the country who say, “That could be me.” Much as I have an urge to give back the same face spraying to them, we do need to hammer cops and mayors hard but with unrelenting numbers and civil disobedience.

  • Chernynkaya : Al-I don’t think that the Chief ordered that–probably just said they COULD use it, but that cop was insane. He had better be fired.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Those Pepper Spray Fountains they are using are so dangerous. You get 10 times the spray in the faces of protestors…any time now someone is going to have a very dangerous reaction and go into shock. The Fountains are NOT meant to be used at close range. Why do I get the feeling that some of these Bastards would love to pull out their guns and start shooting (only to wound of course). GOD DAMN IT. I am really, really angry.

  • SallyT : They better hope no foreign country sends drones over to help our citizens.

  • ChrisR266 : Sally: The rest of the world needs to see Americans standing firm, like those kids are right now.

  • kesmarn : If this is how we’re going, I hope my kids seriously consider Canada. Shameful.

  • ChrisR266 : If we only had social media then. I do not worry about how it makes us look, Sally. I would worry more if people couldn’t see it. The evidence now is our greatest, most powerful weapon.

  • Chernynkaya : Chris, it’s seems the same. I think all of those students’ families are now pretty radicalized now too.

  • AdLib : I just don’t understand the mindset behind the police chiefs ordering assaults against peaceful citizens. In an America where waterboarding and other torture is considered acceptable by far too many, assaulting peaceful citizens who won’t give up their rights is acceptable?

  • kesmarn : Can attack dogs and fire hoses be far behind? Sadists in uniform.

  • SallyT : This is going all over the world. Makes us look so bad!

  • KQuark : Not many tax breaks going on in Europe now. Most are raising taxes and cutting spending.

  • SallyT : Chris, you got that!

  • Chernynkaya : I am Tweeting it to my paltry number of followers.

  • ChrisR266 : Friends, we’re seeing what most of us saw and lived in the 60s and early 70s all over again.

  • PatsyT : These protests are only going to grow all over the world. Facebook is on fire with this stuff. They are getting very organzied.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : EVERYONE WATCH THIS VIDEO FROM START TO FINISH AND PASS IT ON. It captures everything that is wrong with the police and everything that is right with occupy.

  • SallyT : I don’t know how to say anything even if I could.

  • PatsyT : KQ What are those Euro guys doing with all of those tax breaks?

  • kesmarn : So sorry, I just crashed again. Cher, that’s horrible.

  • Chernynkaya : I am for the fist time, speechless.

  • KQuark : The crazy part is the ex-communist countries are doing best fiscally speaking now and that includes China.

  • SallyT : I would like to the FireDeparts show up with the Protesters.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…I am sitting here shaking and in tears…I am so angry with the police and so proud of the students who shame the police to leave with their chant of “You can go.”

  • PatsyT : I have thought that for a while KQ

  • SallyT : I wonder what the Wisc Police think? I mean people got out to protect them.

  • KQuark : For the most part yes Patsy but their beasts are much bigger than ours in many countries. But when you see debt over 100% of GDP and unemployment over 10% it’s scary.

  • Chernynkaya : Thank you Murph!

  • SallyT : I saw that, Cher.

  • Chernynkaya : If you watch to the end. the police retreat in a phallanx.

  • SallyT : Shame on you! is right!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Don’t the Police get how much rage they are provoking?

  • PatsyT : KQ are they trying to starve the beast like the grover norquist pledgers are trying to do here?

  • AdLib : Jesus fucking Christ! WTF is the point of macing them before handcuffing them when they are sitting passively and could have been handcuffed anyway? It is purely sadistic and punitive, this is an outrage and they should sue the UC Davis Police! THAT is what OWS should do, actively sue all the PDs that use unjustified brutality!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…I just called…a police officer answers…Just make a statement….”I am watching what happened what happened at UC Davis today…For God’s sake, stop it.” Then hang up.

  • KQuark : I use to believe European malaise was a right wing myth but it’s become true.

  • KQuark : I’m afraid with those right center governments in Europe they will do nothing. I was amazed looking at the Economic numbers in Europe like the debt and unemployment it’s much worse than here in many countries.

  • PatsyT : No Problem Cher This sucks!

  • Chernynkaya : My heart is actually pounding. Again, forgive the interruption. Please carry on while I pour myself a stiff one.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: I think Europe just exacerbates everything. Europe is going to reel, and if we don’t start making some consistent upward movement, the Europe reel is going to kill the banks. They’ll tank a second time still hoping the Government will save their asses again.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher….FUCKING FASCISTS….God Damn IT. Serve and Protect…Bullsh it….call UC Davis Police and Complain.

  • PatsyT : Cher UC Davis? Geez! What tare those cops thinking? Who is telling them to do this?

  • KQuark : Good point AdLib but I think the 9% approving of Congress now did not hear the question right.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: agreed. That they can’t get their shit together in the House will really be their demise. We knew it was a matter of time, and it is happening, now.

  • Chernynkaya : Cop who pepper-sprayed UC Davis students is Lt. John Pike. I’m going to ive his PD a call. 530-752-1727

  • KQuark : Great point Chris though the biggest worry I have is Europe. What an effing mess over there.

  • AdLib : Chris – I think the 9% approval rating for the Repub House will look good after another failure of theirs to compromise. The majority of Americans want tax increases on the wealthy and they don’t want benefits cut in SS and Medicare. The Repubs look to be caught in a vise.

  • PatsyT : Shits Alive Cher Kent State!

  • Chernynkaya : Soory ti interrupt.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: Ron Paul does batshitcrazy very well. He is entertaining to have around.

  • KQuark : What are we going to do all roll around wheel barrels with our gold ingots.

  • Chernynkaya : OK. I made the mistake of checking my Twitter, This is unbeleiveable «link»

  • KQuark : Ron Paul invented batshitcrazy with his Ayn Rand nonsense.

  • ChrisR266 : Contrary to what many are experiencing, the economic numbers are really starting to inch upward again. If the supercommittee effs this up and the House starts acting like the fools they are again, That could be enough to destabilize things again. This is getting riduculous.

  • SallyT : Ron Paul is too old. Poor thing.

  • KQuark : Murph the sad part is if OWS offset the Tea Baggers from the beggining. Dems could have done more and done better in 2010. But after the election everyone left it up to Obama.

  • SallyT : Chris, yes, following the Euro matter, things are going to happen.

  • PatsyT : AdLib you got that right It’s that Ron Paul side of TBaggers. What a conundrum

  • ChrisR266 : Sally: I think that will happen exactly. Market will reel. People will blame the GOPTEA again.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQuark…GREAT point re. Occupy’s spreading around the responsibility. It is not all about Obama….maybe some of them read the constitution or took a civics class.

  • SallyT : I agree, Kes, just saw that somewhere.

  • AdLib : Patsy – Heh, the MIC, as powerful as they are, are no match for Bagger intransigence! It’s kind of amusing!

  • kesmarn : Sally, I think those ratings are beginning to matter less and less.

  • ChrisR266 : The GOPTEA has dug itself one hell of a ditch this time, and the OWS runoff is coming their way if they do not give an inch again.

  • PatsyT : Thank you KQ That can’t be said enough!

  • SallyT : I read somewhere tht the other rating agencies may lower our rating like S&P if nothing comes out of this committee.

  • AdLib : Murph – Technically, yes. As long as Congress cuts $1.2 trillion…or passes a bill waiving the sequestration, which they can, then sequestration can be avoided.

  • KQuark : And Romney wants to INCREASE defense spending. Where is the media? :roll:

  • kesmarn : Yes, I saw a graph that said that the US spends as much on military stuff as the rest of the world combined!

  • PatsyT : The MIC is going to fight this tooth and nail

  • KQuark : I think it was $900MMM with the war savings.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: I’m thinking it may be just what we want for the committee to miss the deadline. They thought the repercussions from the debt ceiling stalemate were bad? Wait till they see what they reap when they emerge with no deal.

  • AdLib : Personally, I am absolutely pleased that the military would be cut $550 billion. Enough war spending, how about spending on jobs and citizens?

  • KQuark : BTW one of the best parts of OWS is now progressives aren’t calling on Obama to do everything. I got so tired of thinking we lived in a country with one citizen and politician. You noticed no one is calling on Obama to intervene in the Super Committee this time?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AD LIB…since the sequestration is a paper exercise to be approved in January…it can be undone by a number of actions, yes?

  • kesmarn : Super-BP! Super-Walmart! Super-Chase! Super-McDonald’ s!

  • AdLib : For the Super committee, agreements are their kryptonite.

  • ChrisR266 : Patsy: I can see you are on a mission. Bring it, girl.

  • PatsyT : If that have to have the name SUPER They must wear capes with their corporate logos on them

  • kesmarn : OK. We’ll be good, Chris. (sniff)

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: totally unserious. Remember, Portman is from OH. He’s been fishing this “we could fix the defense cut problems” crap around here for a few weeks now.

  • AdLib : So, that means about $550 billion in defense cuts and $550 in social spending cuts.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : GOP is completely misreading public support thinking the BIG MONEY will compensate for current opinion making events…I am beginning to think they are operating from the wrong script.

  • SallyT : The Super Committee is no SuperCuts.

  • ChrisR266 : NO MORE CAIN! my head is going to explode. Do you people really want to read about that?

  • AdLib : The sequestration will proceed if an agreement isn’t reached this week…unless Congress agrees to cuts before January, which I highly doubt.

  • KQuark : How unserious was the last GOP offer? It cut the debt half what the trigger would. They just showed they don’t even care about lowering the deficit.

  • kesmarn : I wanna roast his giblets, AdLib.

  • ChrisR266 : If there is no agreement, the GOP will go down like they couldn’t imagine in the next election. People just won’t stand for no revenue increases.

  • PatsyT : OK Deal

  • AdLib : Patsy – Though we could address one more real topic before inviting Herman over for Thanksgiving?

  • kesmarn : Patsy, you’re right. Cain is much easier to riff on.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Yep January 2012, the Congress receives the report about cuts that may happen in 2013. They can remand the work back to the committee or the committee can act to remand the work back to itself….so much gaming.

  • kesmarn : I heard pudnuts today saying the Super Comm will be stalemated, and the automatic cuts don’t kick in until Jan of 2013, so nobody cares.

  • PatsyT : AdLib killjoy Why so serious?

  • KQuark : This time there are no stakes for failure. Unlike the debt ceiling.

  • ChrisR266 : Patsy: cramping your style tonight, AdLib is, huh?

  • PatsyT : Awww it’s a little tough to make poor taste jokes on the Super Committee

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: yep. Cuts don’t kick in until 2013.

  • KQuark : The Super Committee is crashing.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Super Committee deadline is a fraud. Nothing really happens until January 2012. Fake political drama from both sides.

  • AdLib : “Herman Cain wants a piece of your pie.”

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: ooooh, that’s a good topic.

  • KQuark : Not knowing something is one thing but making shit up is just crazy like Cain did with the Taliban Libya connection.

  • SallyT : Gadaffi, however you spell his name, guard maybe available.

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: LMAO!

  • AdLib : NEW TOPIC: WILL THE SUPER COMMITTEE COME TO AN AGREEMENT? IF SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL BE IN IT AND WILL IT PASS CONGRESS? IF NOT, WILL CONGRESS BLOCK THE DEFENSE CUTS?

  • kesmarn : “Herman Cain loves your little sweet potatahs!”

  • KQuark : :lol: murph

  • ChrisR266 : The dude was bragging tonight about his lofty place at the top of the polls. Guess he’s been leading and not reading.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : More indications that…the Cain SS detail…he has asked for all Female and all dressed like Kaddafi’s Imperial Guard. You know the amazons in comic opera uniforms…so of goes with Herman’s hats.

  • AdLib : “Herman Cain will have a leg.”

  • ChrisR266 : I could be Chris Hays’ mother, but I sure wouldn’t object to teaching him a few things over a weekend on the beach with some good wine…

  • PatsyT : LOL Sally!

  • SallyT : There is sausage in Cain’s stuffing.

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: I wouldn’t disagree with you. He made some asinine comment I saw on the evening news tonight which led me to believe they fabricated threat.

  • kesmarn : Patsy, I’m dying laughing at your “Cain lines” !!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…”UP” is the new MSNBC Chris Hayes show on the early AM on Saturday and Sunday. Very unusual format and good stories. Just too early. DVR.

  • AdLib : “Herman Cain wants to show off his stuffing.”

  • SallyT : Yes, Kes.

  • ChrisR266 : If I were the Koch brothers and ALEC, I would be most seriously worried right now. Money isn’t working, and neither are any of the candidates they backed.

  • kesmarn : Jinx, Sally!

  • AdLib : CHris – I believe that those “death threats” are a lie, I’ve seen articles explaining it’s due to the Media press that Cain dislikes.

  • SallyT : If there are death threats on Cain, they are from the Right. The Left want him to run.

  • kesmarn : Chris…nobody on the left would want to eliminate him. We’re all hoping he’s the nominee!

  • PatsyT : “Herman Cain wants to show you how to butter some cornbread”

  • AdLib : Remember when Cain declared that he would not answer questions about harassment and the press kept insisting? That’s now classified as a threat.

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: yeah, and evidently, there is some rumor of death threats. That’ll draw the SS every time.

  • SallyT : LOL, I mean is it a show. Not hows things. LOL

  • SallyT : What’s UP, Murp?

  • kesmarn : AdLib, that’s hilarious! Does he think that when someone asks him a tough question they’re gonna pepper spray him?

  • SallyT : that is a laugh, AdLib

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib….I will be Up to see “UP” but I think you are correct as long as the internet and other social media are free and open, something the right is working hard to “correct”.

  • kesmarn : Patsy! :lol:

  • kesmarn : Sally, that would probably just excite him.

  • AdLib : Kes – apparently, the reason Cain has requested SS…is to protect himself from the media whom he claims have been hostile and blocking his way, endangering him. What a laugh!

  • ChrisR266 : What is so ironic about this sorry ass batch of candidates is that at any given time, one of them may be able to draw a measly 30% support. Karl Rove has got to be verklempt

  • PatsyT : “Herman Cain will show you what needs a little extra protection”

  • KQuark : Like CL said earlier allot of fundamentalist see Romney as the anti-Christ.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Regarding the Cain SS detail…he has asked for all Female and all dressed like Kaddafi’s Imperial Guard.

  • SallyT : Yes, Kes, but they have guns!

  • AdLib : Murph – I’d be interested to hear what he’s heard but only the desperate and ignorant could think they could bring down a virtual movement of people who are protesting because they’re being oppressed by the top 1%. No matter what they do, the network on the internet will continue and people will be just as pissed off tomorrow as they were today at having no income equality.

  • PatsyT : Gee Is it that bad for them with Romney?

  • kesmarn : I can see him now, Sally. “C’mon! Protect me,baby!”

  • KQuark : Then it will probably cycle back to Bachmann. Boy do they hate Romney.

  • SallyT : I bet they didn’t put any female SS with him!

  • kesmarn : Patsy, it seemed to be a sign of the end times for Dole.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: Now Newt, I could do a few weeks of him, but would certainly want it over before Christmas.

  • PatsyT : Is using third person the turning point?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Chris….the very definition of a smart political operative.

  • kesmarn : Kalima posted that Cain is getting his own SS detail for protection. But who’s gonna protect him from Herman Cain?

  • AdLib : Kes – Sure seems like they were caught red handed as abject liars. I do think people get that everything the Repubs say has to be seen as intentionally slanted.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: I’m nice to his face, but when he turns his back, well…

  • PatsyT : Today Herman Cain Said, “Herman Cain is tired of Herman Cain”

  • KQuark : Me too Chris. Bring on Newt!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Chris R266…funny Herman always speaks so highly of you.

  • PatsyT : Thats it Sally !!!

  • ChrisR266 : I am so damned tired of Herman Cain.

  • kesmarn : Sally, he was just trying the Braille technique to “read” those women.

  • SallyT : Kes, Cain should be a reader and stop being a feeler.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: Ok. Missed her tonight. Will have to watch in the a.m.

  • PatsyT : LOL KES ! Purposely Insane Cain!

  • ChrisR266 : Sally: I think it’s us. I keep getting a faster computer, and keep falling more behind.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CHRIS R266….Rachel was pushing the Hayes story tonight….

  • kesmarn : Murph… :lol: They can neither lead nor read!

  • SallyT : Chris, either my computer is too slow or I am.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: I missed this altogether. When did he start hyping that?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KES…did you not know that we need a LEADER not a READER….

  • KQuark : Again the GOP candidate will have no positive vision, especially with Romney. I just hope Obama does not go too negative either but he has to go more negative this time.

  • kesmarn : Potentially Insane Cain?

  • PatsyT : Murph I have to DVR him

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Anyone know anything about the Chris Hayes scoop he is trotting out on “UP” tomorrow morn re. a plan form the right to take down Occupy????

  • ChrisR266 : Sally: I gave the catch-up a 30 second try and then said to hell with it, LOL.

  • PatsyT : Possibly Idiot Complex

  • kesmarn : Cain sure coulda used a teleprompter on that Libya question.

  • SallyT : Hell, I was trying to catch up. Cher, did you leave? Goodnight if you did.

  • KQuark : In fact I’ve seen the media come out against those attacks more than the Obama team.

  • ChrisR266 : KQ: I agree.

  • AdLib : Patsy – Considering he’s a leader and not a reader, maybe it’s Positively Illiterate Complex.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, surely people are starting to see through that sleazy technique, don’tcha think? Hope?

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: damned sad tactic on their parts, it all came out like blah, blah, blah.

  • KQuark : AdLib like I said earlier I don’t think those attacks are gonna work this time. They sound old and people are not listening to them.

  • PatsyT : Oh AdLib are you sure you that p isn’t Pepperoni Or maybe Piss

  • AdLib : BTW, how did we all like the blatant lie from Perry and Romney, clearly lying that Obama said Americans are lazy? What terrible desperation!

  • ChrisR266 : Hey, Patsy, hope you are well.

  • KQuark : Sweet Dreams Cher

  • kesmarn : g’night, Cher! Keep fighting the good fight!

  • AdLib : Patsy – PIC is the Herman Cain machine, the Pizza Industrial Complex.

  • KQuark : TIC

  • PatsyT : Nighty Night Cher!

  • ChrisR266 : Bring ’em on, AdLib. I just popped a beer.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher….really Google formats to the user? hmmmm….in my case this would not seem to fit given my political and economic leanings…I need to look into this.

  • kesmarn : Yes, Chris… a few flakes of snow yesterday. Brrrr!

  • ChrisR266 : Hi Cher, and bye, Cher, sorry to miss you.

  • PatsyT : Hey Chris!

  • AdLib : Chris – Very well, we’re solving most of the pressing issues of the day but left some big ones for you.

  • ChrisR266 : Hi Kes: Cold up there, clear and cold down here.

  • Chernynkaya : Hey Chris–please forgive me but I’m just leaving–not you!

  • PatsyT : Like the MIC

  • kesmarn : Hey, Chris!

  • PatsyT : Prison Industrial complex

  • ChrisR266 : Good weekend to you, AdLib. How’s it going?

  • Chernynkaya : Oh–just got it KQ!

  • AdLib : Hey Chris!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T why in the hell is MSNBC stuck with its jailbait weekend formatt? Not only is the programming horrid, it is exploiting our jail happy culture’s inmates…must be a better way to make money.

  • Chernynkaya : What’s the PIC?

  • ChrisR266 : Evening, everyone.

  • SallyT : Nothing on tonight. Where is Sue and that movie she wanted me to watch that was 2hrs.

  • Chernynkaya : Murph, as I understand it Google puts different links on your Google page depending on what you click on.

  • PatsyT : Murph we need a post on this kind of strategy stuff

  • AdLib : Night CL! Count me in on the CU campaign!

  • KQuark : MSNBC feeding the PIC is disgusting

  • SallyT : Goodnight CL. See you later.

  • PatsyT : Choice All the Best to you !

  • Chernynkaya : Take care, CL! get a lot of rest–it’s healing.

  • SallyT : I hate LOCKUP! And Bill Maheur is on vacation.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher..I just googled “boeing obama think progress” and the story you refer to was on page 5 of the listings….we progs got to get better at google strategy, I see this all the time.

  • KQuark : Night AB and CL sleep well.

  • kesmarn : G’Night, c’lady. Feel better. Happy Thanksgiving!

  • SallyT : Goodnight AB!

  • KQuark : STOP LOCKUP NOW!

  • SallyT : Thanks KQ

  • KQuark : The biggest way to help OWS in the Media

  • choicelady : Good Night, AB – I’m right behind you! I am packing it in, folks. Side effect of my pain meds is a passionate desire to sleep about 10 hours a day. So I’m off to dreamland. Probably won’t talk next week since I’ll be with family, but everyone have a WONDERFUL Thanksgiving! WB makes good bread dressing, too, just in case you were wondering. Happy Thanksgiving to all!

  • Chernynkaya : «link» Treasury Secretary Who Led Deregulation Says Occupy Wall Street Has Highlighted Important Issues

  • kesmarn : G’Night AB! Take some Velveeta in to the Blov!

  • KQuark : «link»

  • KQuark : Here’s the link AdLib

  • kesmarn : Oh yeah. I consecrated many a Wonder Host. Why else would they call it “Wonder”?

  • KQuark : Sally honestly I only came across the headline and turned away. I can’t even find the link now but it was something about

  • AdLib : Night AB! Thanks for the campaign ad! The next smoke’s on me!

  • PatsyT : AB HA HA thanks for that good night laugh! You have a great weekend.

  • AlphaBitch : Good to see you, too Cher!

  • Chernynkaya : Sllep well, AB–so good to see you!

  • PatsyT : Thanks Murph!

  • choicelady : kes – LOL!!! Little does the Church know it’s already HAD its first female priest – YOU!!!! Wonder Bread for the Holy Sacrament prepared and presented by Mother Kes! That just cracks me up!

  • kesmarn : Sally, I was late to the party, too. We are makeeng zee leetle joke about Boeing and the omnipotent Obama.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk thanks for the Bito link….Cher thanks for the Progressive list…weird not one of those on the first four pages of google listings.

  • PatsyT : Choice I read that Velveeta and cold duck

  • AdLib : KQ – Where is the story on the Ambush Election rules?

  • Chernynkaya : I was looking for a boeing link for Sally and found this: «link»

  • AlphaBitch : Ok, swell pals. The Blov is making bedtime noises and the Pup is tucked in and tuckered out. I go to bed early so I can get up and watch Chris Hayes’ UP show on MSNBC. It’s the only show I can stand these days, and it only comes on during weekends. So good night and sweet dreams of WB & Velveeta (which a friend once picked as her faux porn name – Velveeta Spread. Think about it!)

  • choicelady : Cher – Velveeta cold, yuck. Velveeta as a grilled cheese sandwich? Doesn’t get any better. Especially on Wonder Bread. I can’t eat the bread anymore, but I still occasionally buy the cheese slices on my gluten free bread. Almost as good.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Patsy etc…..Boeing technical story: «link» from the “enemy” at the Daily Caller «link» and from ABC «link» with a ton of other stories if you google “boeing obama” But in the first 100 stories not a single progressive listing…..SO we get the word out.

  • AdLib : Heh! Fox thinks Obama is so powerful a President he can get Indonesia to buy American jets for $21.7 billion just because he tells them to? Doesn’t that make him look incredibly strong? Poor Fox dimwits, they just can’t get anything straight.

  • kesmarn : You can also smash white bread into little flat discs and say Mass…even if you’re female, I discovered when I was a kid.

  • SallyT : Funk and KQ, please fill me in later on this Boeing thing. I can keep up on here.

  • Chernynkaya : CL– a kindred spirit! And I love Valveeta to this day.

  • KQuark : BREAKING: Obama-NLRB Rushing to Issue Ambush Elections Rules on Nov. 30

  • PatsyT : OK I think I am getting the drift…

  • funksands : AB :-)

  • funksands : Patsy, google LBJ and Greece

  • AlphaBitch : Patsy: Herman Cain can make the Taliban invade Libya

  • choicelady : Cher – I remember making the little balls. Reason is – there’s almost no wheat in WB. It and Velveeta are chock full of a cellulose product called “Merlinex” that lets us have two foot long, 1 pound loaves of bread. It was designed to feed families after WW II when money was tight – it let the miniscule amount of wheat go much, much further. That’s why they added vitamins – without those, kids would have died of malnutrition. The vitamins cost more than the wheat. But man – it made GREAT dough balls you could zap at your kid brother!

  • KQuark : Consider the source Patsy.

  • Chernynkaya : Nope, kes. Not even with challa.

  • PatsyT : How is an international deal payola? Do we really have that much control over other countries?

  • funksands : Murph, sorry AdLib’s story: «link»

  • funksands : Murph, check Bito’s story in OT

  • Chernynkaya : Murph-ThinkProgr ess, TPM, Crooks/Liars, American Prospect, New republic…

  • KQuark : Caught it funk I’m LATE again.

  • kesmarn : Cher, you can’t do that with pumpernickel.

  • funksands : KQ, see?

  • Chernynkaya : CL–full disclosure: I secretly love WB. Cuz I never got to eat it. When I got my hands on some, I loved to take a slice and make it into a tiny ball.

  • KQuark : I already saw faux news via redstate that the Boeing deal was a payoff to someone in the Obama administration or something equally ridiculous.

  • AdLib : Funk – A little more “payola” like the Boeing deal and the economy could just be booming!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher….have you a good link to recommend….I just finished perusing alternet, raw story and did not see it.

  • kesmarn : I thought the Super-Committe was in total gridlock.

  • funksands : Obama is telling Murray to take a dive. No deals.

  • choicelady : Cher – I remember that Woody Allen bit! He should have put cheese on it, too. There is no dairy in mayo!

  • funksands : Murph / OATUS: Bito had a good link in OT today

  • choicelady : funk – from Obama to Murray? I have to say I don’t see it since she’s been unable to get anywhere anyway.

  • Chernynkaya : Murph–that story is on all the progressive sites–just not maybe on HPAOL.Oh–I did say “progressive’ sites.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…can you answer Patsy re. best link for Boeing Story and Obama credit.

  • funksands : The chair of the SuperCommittee? Senator Boeing? Right before the deadline? It’s Guido Obama’s payola.

  • AdLib : Patsy – Very cool! Hadn’t heard about Occupy Your Corner! Love it!

  • choicelady : Cher – American WASPs are the only ethnicity for which the chosen foods are cheeze whiz, Wonder Bread, and tuna noodle casserole. I love two of the three (not Wonder Bread).

  • PatsyT : Good Idea Murph! What is the best link

  • Chernynkaya : Ask Woody Allen–in one movie he wanted to convert to Christianity and made a pastrami sandwich with Wonder Bread and mayo as his first step.

  • kesmarn : Please elaborate.

  • funksands : C’mon the timing is too good.

  • funksands : Si

  • AlphaBitch : Patty?

  • choicelady : funk – I’m always good with conspiracies, tell all please!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : EVERYONE…TAKE THE BOEING STORY FROM FUNK AND PUT OUT TO ALL THE BLOGS WE POPULATE….THE STORY WILL SPREAD AND THE MSM WILL CATCHUP….ok, I will stop yelling now.

  • funksands : This airplane order is Murray’s bribe.

  • AlphaBitch : Me too

  • kesmarn : I do. I do.

  • PatsyT : Funk MSM is BS!

  • Chernynkaya : Actually, Wonder Bread IS an ethnicity.

  • funksands : CL, you want to hear my conspiracy theory?

  • AdLib : Murph – Joe’s seat goes Dem, it would have when he lost the primary if he hadn’t betrayed the Dem Party (once again).

  • AlphaBitch : Patsy: I had not! Thanks for sharing.

  • choicelady : Funk – that is really great news about Boeing!

  • kesmarn : Hey, Patsy…my “We ARE the 99%” yard sign just arrived today!

  • choicelady : Cher – well, most of our leading stars of stage and screen turned into Beaver Cleaver along the way by aping the Wonder Bread standards of our society.

  • Chernynkaya : I like that Patsy! it reminds me of another movement I was involved in–Women in Black. I really like it.

  • funksands : De nada

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk….gracie!

  • funksands : CL ;-)

  • funksands : Ad, its the biggest aircraft order since WW2 and nothing. Local news here was going apeshit.

  • PatsyT : OK Have you guys seen this version of OWS? «link»

  • kesmarn : Cher… :lol:

  • AdLib : Funk – That’s good news, the deal for Boeing which Obama got NO credit for in today’s MSM broadcasts is huge and will help on jobs and the economy.

  • choicelady : funk – yes. I’d pegged him as either Polish or Ukranian with a definite “need” to simplify and Anglicize his name.

  • funksands : Murph for you: «link»

  • Chernynkaya : CL–PAt Boone ethnic? Hehe! Is Wonder Bread an ethnicity?

  • kesmarn : I’ll have to google it, c’lady, but I think he is.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…WOW…Fro m TP to OWS…TPOWS!

  • funksands : “ethnic”? Is that like “urban”?

  • choicelady : kes – Pat is related to Daniel? Seriously? I figured he had changed his name from something really ethnic.

  • AlphaBitch : gitouttahere!

  • Chernynkaya : oh– that sound good Sal.

  • funksands : Murph, Karl Degginger, the co-founder of the Tea Party is an OWS supporter.

  • SallyT : I am sure you had, Cher, you just were busy on another channel.

  • KQuark : I can’t wait to fly in a Dreamliner it just seems so cool.

  • AdLib : Patsy – Me too, I will contribute to Warren this year as I did to Franken in 2008.

  • kesmarn : Yes, seriously, c’lady, Boone is really creepy. His distant ancestor Daniel would be ashamed.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib does your count included any of the BlueDog crowd…how does Joe L’s seat go?

  • Chernynkaya : Sally–I hadn’t thought of that! Bravo!

  • AlphaBitch : YEA!

  • funksands : How about POATUS?

  • AdLib : Funk – Thanks for the stats!

  • funksands : I asked him if the 100k+ job description was accurate and he said absolutely, if not conservative.

  • SallyT : That is why the OWS is trying to keep party out of it.

  • PatsyT : Thats cool Gunksands

  • Chernynkaya : POATSY?? YaY–another nickname!

  • AlphaBitch : HA! Poatsy. A never ending Sybil, she is.

  • choicelady : Kes and AB – mummified, Botoxed, lifted, tucked, and still so stupid. He’s another Dominionist Christian. If that’s what it takes, another reason to count me OUT!

  • kesmarn : I like Poatsy!

  • AdLib : Murph – I’ve looked at the Senate seats up for Dems in 2012 and I think they look good for the Dems to end up with at least 50 or 51 which would be enough with Obama re-elected.

  • funksands : Poatsy, yep

  • SallyT : I think the TP started out with the Bailout anger and the GOP jumped in and changed their direction for them.

  • PatsyT : Funk about the trade deal?

  • funksands : The administration helped land their biggest order ever from the Indonesians.

  • kesmarn : AB when your eyebrows meet in the back of your head… :-(

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…fired up for who/what, how/why?

  • choicelady : funk – fired up how? About OWS I hope?

  • KQuark : There is a huge schism in the GOP but we only hear of from the most vocal the Tea Baggers.

  • AlphaBitch : Kes: S-K-I-N T-O-O T-I-G-H-T????

  • funksands : OT: I have a client that works for Boeing. I talked to him today and asked him what the buzz was like there. He said the entire company top to bottom was totally fired up.

  • AdLib : KQ – Heh! Warren won’t make that kind of mistake. She is a real person from humble beginnings and is very much in touch with the people. She’ll go to Sox games and will be greeted like a hero.

  • kesmarn : Possible, c’lady. But more likely mummified. Like so many on the right.

  • Chernynkaya : I don’t knw Sally. They are so partisan I don’t think they would even admit to being with the 99%.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Saly T….a very well know TP leader here in St. L. has aligned himself with Occupy….says he was betrayed by the GOP…

  • KQuark : Good question sally. Then again are their any TB’s from the original TB’s left. It has just morphed into the GOP base.

  • PatsyT : Sally Yes some of those early tea partiers had genuine intent

  • choicelady : kes – there IS that, yes. Maybe Pat is a Disney Animatronic? (I have no idea how that is spelled…)

  • kesmarn : He looks embalmed in those commercials, AB.

  • SallyT : I think there are more TeaBaggers with OWS now. I mean the real TP from the first not the one that got bought.

  • KQuark : 100% agree AdLib. Obama in fact wins every debate so far.

  • AlphaBitch : Kes, no but he should be.

  • kesmarn : The way he looks, c’lady, I think Pat BOONE is dead.

  • AdLib : Funk – Right and that’s why Obama’s chances only grow with each debate as the GOP field steers harder and harder right to win over Baggers. Yes, the eventual nom will try to steer back to the middle in the GE but they will have committed themselves far too right of most Americans by then.

  • KQuark : Also what Romney is saying now is far right of Dole. They have short memories too.

  • AlphaBitch : Cher: Damn straight.

  • choicelady : kes – pretty dumb and geriatric! That’s just amazing! I think that says a whole lot about whom they think are their “true followers”. Except a whole lot of Pat Boone fans are dead. Oh, well…

  • funksands : Everything is trending at the right time right now. Things turning very well for the Dems

  • Chernynkaya : AB–that’s good news. We ARE 52% of the population, right?

  • KQuark : If the elections where held in 2010 I would say that but they are not as ravenous or as powerful as they were in 2012.

  • funksands : «link»

  • PatsyT : Wow I am loving Warren!

  • funksands : Democrats crush the Republicans in basic favorability, coming in at 40% favorable, 37% unfavorable, with the GOP coming in at 30%/44%. These numbers are remarkable similar to or even a bit better than for Democrats in this same poll a week before the 2006 and 2008 elections, and about 10 points net better than where they were in the last week of 2010. In Party identification, 46% of voters say they are, or are leaning Democratic, while only 36% say the same about their affinity for the GOP.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…don’t disagree with you re. Warren, but there are five other seats that worry me. I can list for you later.

  • AdLib : KQ – True about Dole but this isn’t Dole’s GOP. This GOP has lunatic extremists running the show who aren’t ready to compromise with anyone. They will be very resentful if Romney wins, not energized behind the creator of Obamacare.

  • AlphaBitch : Cher: and even the Repubs I know and love who actually think Poot is smart know that will/would sink him. Esp w/ women

  • Chernynkaya : Murph–and I prolly forgot some! :-)

  • kesmarn : In Ohio they have nasty ads out already against lib Dem Sen. Sherrod Brown. Done by — wait for it — PAT BOONE!! Hahahahahah! How dumb and geriatric do they think we are?

  • KQuark : Not if she say’s something wrong about the Red Sox AdLib :roll:

  • AlphaBitch : KQ: Yes, he was. Part of that Neil Bush thingy

  • Chernynkaya : Nothing says Repub family values like divorcing your wife after cancer surgery–in the hospital.

  • SallyT : Oh and don’t forget’s Newts Health Insurance lobbying oh but he doesn’t lobby.

  • KQuark : Cher add crashes planes and you have McCain. Remember he was part of the first banking scandals.

  • PatsyT : My kids love that he has been glitter bombed!

  • AlphaBitch : Funk: I calls em as I sees em.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher- Newt’s resume….you got it nailed right down.

  • funksands : AB, that is a actually a strangely compelling combo…

  • AdLib : Murph – The Dems are looking pretty good at holding onto the Senate. Warren’s running in MA is a real game changer, I think she’ll win and that would give the Dems a lot of wiggle room in retaining the Senate.

  • AlphaBitch : Cher: for family values??

  • Chernynkaya : Let’s see– an adulterer, ethics violations, scam awards, Tiffany’s and then the $1.6 million from Fanny/Freddy. Yes–he’s the winner!

  • kesmarn : AB, :lol: …very slight chance.

  • funksands : Ad, this just shows how small the bagger contingent really is. They don’t have the numbers in a general, national election

  • AlphaBitch : Smutty, with a chance of brains.

  • KQuark : Don’t underestimate how much the GOP can hold their collective noses AdLib. Yeah I know they are suppose to be different this year but they are the party that nominated Dole too.

  • AdLib : CL – I am right with you, I don’t want ROn Paul to be legitimized but he would be so easy to beat if he won the nom!

  • kesmarn : With low-lying infidelity, funk…

  • funksands : Kes, foggy with a chance of frankly… :-)

  • PatsyT : Ha! Cher, I was just thinking about that!

  • AlphaBitch : Cher: good ‘uns!

  • AdLib : KQ – The only issue with expecting Romney to get Repubs to flock to him as they have to others is that the reason they did so is because they hate Romney. So no, I don’t expect ROmney to get that kind of bump though he could win out of default…not a strong position to be in to win the Presidency. The Baggers will not rally behind Romney, no matter how he panders to them, they hate him.

  • choicelady : AB – LOL!!!! I know what Poot means, and it’s SO apt!

  • Chernynkaya : AB, as kes said, “Paysey oats and Oatsy oats and little Patsy Paysey–a kiddle eat patsy too, wouldn;t you.”

  • kesmarn : And it’s always foggy weather, funk.

  • KQuark : CL I hope Newt wins one early just for the comedy effect.

  • AlphaBitch : Looks like a tornado done ripped old Newtie’s face already.

  • SallyT : Oh, so are the Governor races!

  • funksands : Newt’s head has its own weather system.

  • PatsyT : How about Paisley

  • AlphaBitch : Newt rhymes with Poot.

  • choicelady : Murph – I am SO with you that! The House and Senate are every bit as important!

  • AlphaBitch : With a head that big Funk?

  • SallyT : Murph, I agree. We typed that at the same time.

  • choicelady : Murph – I am

  • KQuark : CL I want to put super glue on that sticky wicket.

  • funksands : Very small rocks….

  • AlphaBitch : Paysey, Paysey, give me an answer do….

  • kesmarn : So many anti-Christs…s o little time…

  • choicelady : Patsy – OK, maybe not ALL of the Newt. The idea of him nekkid is pretty disgusting.

  • KQuark : She turned me into a Newt………I got better.

  • Chernynkaya : Don’t forget Paysey, AB!

  • choicelady : KQ – the only problem with Romney fighting the anti-Christ is that the GOP think Romney IS the anti-Christ. That makes a sticky wicket, yes?

  • kesmarn : Hey, Patsy/Oatsy!

  • AdLib : Hi Patsy/Oatsy!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I keep on saying that the GOP kingmakers want us to focus our energy on a Prez race they know they will not win as they go after the Senate, hold on the House, and take more state governments. Obama will be a wonderful scapegoat if he has no congressional backup.

  • AlphaBitch : Patsy/Oatsy!

  • AdLib : Only Ron Paul, Rick Santorum and Jon Huntsman haven’t had their turn at the lead. Huntsman fails the IQ test (too high) and Santorum is just a Google Search. Ron Paul could be the next to take a lead!

  • KQuark : Just heard Perry used the “S” word to describe Obama. It’s amazing that the GOP are going to tried failed tactics again.

  • PatsyT : Hey Peeps! YES Choice lets see all of the NEWT! yuck!

  • choicelady : AdLib – OMG – I so do NOT want Ron Paul to get any cred anywhere any time.

  • kesmarn : Isn’t it amazing that Newtie is a contender after the way they sat in judgment on Clinton for weight/fidelity/ integrity issues?

  • SallyT : I think if Romney gets the nom, which he is going to, you will see so much money thrown at the local races. Because they won’t care who’s Prez but who is in Congress.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–you’re in for lot’s of fun. Newt is going to be decimated. Already begun. But I’m rooting for him to get the nom. it’ll be great!

  • choicelady : Cher – did we not once determine you know how to type runes?

  • funksands : Ad, Ron Paul and his giant suits are going to look less and less viable as the elections draw nearer.

  • choicelady : oh PLEEZE – don’t count Newt out yet – I’m DYING to see all the slime unleashed on him!!! He went on Pat Robertson’s show and said althought he was an adulterer, God had forgiven him because he did not lie under oath. I want him OUTED for the slimeball he is!!! PLEEEEEEZE let me have my fun!!!

  • KQuark : Are you implying Republicans are flip floppers Murf first Bachmann, then Perry, then Cain and now Gingrich. I’ll think they’ll flip flop to Romney when it all shakes out only because they think he has the biggest chance to beat the anti-Christ.

  • SallyT : So true, Kes, so true. That is why they wanted the visual.

  • AlphaBitch : Ron spawned Rand.

  • funksands : Murph, exactly. Romney’s nom is doom for the GOP. I’m much more concerned about the Senate elections

  • AdLib : Funk – Who knows, maybe Ron Paul finally gets his day in the sun at the right time?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk AND no one is who the GOTP may vote for.

  • Chernynkaya : I “niew” you did. I’ve been typing badly all day. FAt fingers.

  • AlphaBitch : Funk: PLEASE tell Mr. Perry that.

  • kesmarn : Sally, I think they’re not going away altogether. Things may take a different shape. But some of them — many of them — do they really have anywhere else to go. I don’t think a lot of people “get” how many people have really hit rock bottom financially.

  • funksands : There is no one besides Romney.

  • choicelady : Cher – I “new” that’s what you meant!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQ….Mitt Romney 29 Percent, Newt Gingrich 27 Percent, in the Romney stronghold of New Hampshire….NOM INATION LOCKED UP….hmmmm.

  • KQuark : I like the 99% moniker much better though.

  • AdLib : KQ – It sure makes sense to say that Romney will be the nom but, as is rarely said, 78% of Repubs oppose Romney and are supporting other candidates. What happens if a Bagger/”non-Rom ney” candidate is going head to head with Romney? Might he not get a lion’s share of the 78% anti-Romney vote?

  • Chernynkaya : er “know”

  • KQuark : Good point Sally

  • SallyT : All I will add is most people didn’t think that OWS would last 2 mos but it did. Lets see how they handle it next.

  • Chernynkaya : I now CL–thanks!

  • choicelady : Cher – I love you, too!!

  • kesmarn : Romney seems like the last one standing, KQ.

  • AdLib : CL – As I am…modestly financed…I do my own polling so I have begun to wear rainpants when I poll.

  • KQuark : So do we all now concede that Romney is gonna be the GOP nominee?

  • Chernynkaya : CL-I think you are wrong about this. And that maybe not as well-informed as you usually are. I don’t think we are going to agree on this. We really see it so differently, but that’s OK–I still love you! Really!

  • kesmarn : AB,no wonder the Blov loves you.

  • AdLib : I welcome poll cats too.

  • choicelady : AdLib – just so the dogs don’t lift a leg on the POLLSTER. That would be rude.

  • AlphaBitch : I’m a poll dancer

  • SallyT : Well, Cher, I wouldn’t flush your channel.

  • AdLib : However, they keep lifting a leg on the poll.

  • funksands : And Bacon fetishists

  • kesmarn : Oh Boy! If we’ve got bacon, can stilettos and Ralph be far behind? (Semi-inside humor… :lol: )

  • AdLib : Sally – I’m polling very well among dogs.

  • AlphaBitch : AdLib – I’ll get the message out

  • choicelady : AdLib – I’m IN! Anyone who gives free bacon (and can there be turkey bacon so it’s both Kosher and Halal too?) is MY kind of candidate!

  • AdLib : Funk – People want bacon that I cook, not me reading a book!

  • Chernynkaya : Sally, that twirling around in his head was a giant flushing sound.

  • AlphaBitch : Hey Kes – AdLib’s cookin’ bacon. I don’t think it’s Kevin

  • kesmarn : Sorry folks, the minute I signed in I had to do the cache-clearing, re-boot thingy. I think I’m all better now. Must have been the beer and chili.

  • SallyT : BBBAACCAANN. You got my dogs vote!

  • funksands : Ad, is the bacon cooked? I don’t like to work for my food.

  • AdLib : AB – One BLT coming up!

  • choicelady : Cher – it has become about the right to occupy a PUBLIC space overnight which is denied everyone. Maybe I’m too close to Oakland and Sacramento, but that’s ALL it’s about. The right to assemble is NOT about pitching a tent and latrines! One can assemble dawn to 11 pm and be just as effective. But that’s absolutely ALL that’s happening up here.

  • Chernynkaya : AL, that’s my point. Thanks for articulating. Movements like these change hearts and minds over time–they don’t need to legislate–just provide the soil.

  • AlphaBitch : ME

  • AdLib : My tax plan, if elected President is what I call 9-9-Bacon. You pay 9% income tax, you’re entitled to 9 lottery tickets and you get free bacon. Now who’s voting for me?!

  • AlphaBitch : Sally! Cuidado, amiga!

  • SallyT : PS, Cher I love channelling you when you are overwrought. I get that twirlly thing going in my head like Cain.

  • AlphaBitch : Tom DeLay was a roach killer in TX before he was a hammertime congressman

  • AdLib : Cher – Really agree! We fight against CU and for a Constitutional Amendment, we fight for raising taxes on the wealthy and we fight to elect a president that would appoint a moderate or better SCOTUS judge to overturn the horrendous rulings of this corporately-owne d SCOTUS. And OWS can be supporting all of that without needing to be dedicated to one or the other.

  • funksands : The Chair of the FEC was Tom DeLay’s counsel during his ethics trials.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Hmmm. I hate to tell you. I think it’s been done. And NOT to good advantage for the one doing such an ad. Now – if you were to have AB smoking a joint…you MIGHT be onto something. Or she would.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL, Cher etc. here in St. Louis the encampment has gone mobile and its working pretty well (with a nod t the folks from Chicago) We are mobilizing for Washington…Occ upy Congress

  • SallyT : The camping is a visual. Hooverville like.

  • Chernynkaya : CL, it is NOT about “camping”! It;s about the right to assemble, which in turn is about the 99% v the 1%. You know, I am getting over-wrought and that’s never productive. Sorry about that.

  • KQuark : :lol: AB

  • AdLib : KQ – I agree 100%. Though I will fight against CU every way I can, I think that getting a 5-4 majority in the SCOTUS that believes that people can limit the undemocratic decision that the wealthy and corporations can control our democracy is the only way that will change. And who knows, that could happen much sooner than passing a Constitutional Amendment would.

  • SallyT : KQ, I like that! 18 18 18

  • choicelady : AdLib – well, we start with HOPE! There are a variety of limits that states CAN impose just as we are trying to do. It does not have to come in one fell swoop – lots and lots of shackles we can put on corporations.

  • AlphaBitch : KQ: Better than Cain’s 36-26-36 plan???

  • AlphaBitch : Funk – I”m in.

  • KQuark : FFS good point funk.

  • KQuark : The adlib 18-18-18 plan it’s twice as good as Cain’s.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ADLIB…you are not ignorant or arrogant enough to engage in that kind of campaign…no one will believe it.

  • funksands : We may not be able to overturn Citizens. How about getting Bush’s FEC appointees out the door?

  • choicelady : AdLib – if OWS would keep focused on corporate greed and NOT on itself, yes, it will definitely change the equation. I’m just getting really worried about how many liberals are getting fed up with the self obsession about camping that exists in too many cities. Denver, Portland, etc. are really moving issues OTHER than themselves. I want that kind of far-seeing energy BACK into this movement. It’s not about camping. It’s about challenging the power structure.

  • AlphaBitch : AdLib – Don’t tell them how I’m smoking MY cigarette……

  • Chernynkaya : The conversation of replacing the SCOTUS justices via Prez election and at the same time working to overturn CU via an amanedment is a microcosm of how I see OWS vs legislation. NOT one way vs another–but two tracks.

  • AdLib : AB is my campaign manager for President. I’ve just shot a campaign commercial of AB smoking a cigarette and then a close up on me turning with a really slow smile. WHat do you think?

  • KQuark : So are we agreed the courts are the only way to overturn the Citizen’s United ruling?

  • AlphaBitch : CL: NO shit. I had his photo on my filing cabinet, and was going to go work for him when HE ran for Pres. Now I’m working for AdLib

  • AdLib : CL – Absolutely! And you can count me on board (of course) on overturning CU in CA…but if it’s considered unconstitutional to limit corporate spending…how can CA prevent it?

  • choicelady : Hi kes!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…pushing the CA gives more momentum to the appointment of a progressive leaning justice when the time comes…push away

  • funksands : We are the only country in the world with a debt ceiling. Why not make a triple-steel-rei nforced debt ceiling? Madness.

  • choicelady : AB – I met Spitzer in 1999, and when the crap hit, all I could think was “you turkey – we SO believed in you!”

  • AlphaBitch : CL & AdLib: Fire on all fronts.

  • SallyT : Cher, I typed a really long post in support of something you wrote but it wouldn’t let me post!

  • AlphaBitch : KES!!!!!

  • choicelady : AdLib – yes, I think rebalancing the SCOTUS would actually be tons easier!!! But I think pursuing the CA to overturn Citizens is worth pursuing as well.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Hey Kes

  • Chernynkaya : Hiya, kes!

  • AdLib : Hey Kes!

  • AdLib : CL – Being such a tall mountain to climb, 2/3 of the Senate and House to vote “Yes” against the corporations financing their campaigns, I think OWS’ approach to establish and build discontent with the system could get us towards that destination. That’s where their strength seems to be and you should always play to your strengths.

  • KQuark : Kes!

  • kesmarn : Good Friday evening, friends! I’ve been reading a bit, catching up. Very interesting discussion.

  • KQuark : I agree AB.

  • AlphaBitch : AdLib – will Ginsberg do the honorable thing and step down so a young person can fill her position? I love her, but I fear the timing.

  • SallyT : Okay, it won’t let me post. That says something.

  • choicelady : AB – I LOVE that! I rarely hope for someone’s demise, but I’m sending LOTS of energies to the Supreme Court on artery plaque build up…among the Big Four, of course.

  • choicelady : AdLIb – THANKS – I keep forgetting that there is a different standard for Congres and the states. Obviously THIS Congress won’t pass it, but we’re looking to 2013 and beyond (I sound like Buzz Lightyear…)

  • KQuark : Oh I know just showing how difficult it was to pass an Amendment to the Constitution. Do you think ending citizen united would even come up for a vote?

  • AlphaBitch : CL – thanks. I miss Elliott Spitzer, as I have said in other posts. Sad, but true.

  • AdLib : KQ – Yes, exactly!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…both methods of passing a Const. Amendment favor institutionalize d power…the Founders and Framers did not trust “the mob.”

  • AdLib : AB – Exactly. My prediction is that the only way CU will be overturned is by a re-balancing of the SCOTUS to a more lawful and conventional position.

  • funksands : TOO LONG!!! TOO LONG!! Aaaaaaghhh

  • choicelady : AB – the problem with “punishing” banks is that President Obama is correct when he says most of what happened was NOT illegal. Gramm-Leach-Blil ey overturned Glass-Steagall in 1999 and Clinton signed it giving banks the very power that S&Ls had abused a decade earlier. The deregulation of Wall Street and lending thus made most of what happened LEGAL. The people who did the really ILLEGAL stuff were mortgage brokerages such as Countrywide and thousands of small ones. I saw it first hand – New America Financial set up subprimes in communities of color that were so onerous and were promoted with such lies that by 2005 NAF was OUT OF BUSINESS. They ARE being prosecuted by District jurisdictions of the DOJ – lots and lots of stories come my way weekly. Across the country these scumbags are being hauled into court. But that does NOT get the media play – I see the DOJ press releases, and I never see the stories. It IS happening!

  • KQuark : That’s my point AdLib in a country this polarized nothing as big as a change to the Constitution can happen. The best bet is getting more Dems on the SCOTUS.

  • AlphaBitch : So, AdLib – maybe it would be easier to just “pray away the Scalia”

  • Chernynkaya : KQ the BBA was defeated today.

  • Chernynkaya : AL–I’m with you on the Constitutional amendment. Why is this either/or? There is so mcuh ot protest and change, I don;t see OWS being the ONLY form of protest. Further, protests beget protests. Today OWS and tomorrow they will have energized another group.

  • AdLib : Just so we know what we’re up against, here is a brief description of the only ways a Constitutional Amendment can be passed: “All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment. The other method of passing an amendment requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can propose as many amendments as it deems necessary. Those amendments must be approved by three-fourths of the states. ” «link»

  • KQuark : I did see that it got 300 votes in 1995.

  • KQuark : I think we can’t lose sight that the problems with the system are not just a US problem but a global problem now. Europe has been ineffective at progressing for years now.

  • Chernynkaya : Wait–there are plenty of people who work in banks who need their jobs and who make little money. By that logic, OWs should’nt interfere with the banks either. Sometimes you have to inconvenience some people for the greater good. Why strike then, if some people will be laid off?

  • AdLib : CL – Just to be clear, I think that those of us who want to take on the fight for a Constitutional Amendment to take away the personhood of corporations and money as free speech, need to do so, that’s important. But OWS is on a broader mission and though I think they will be enormously helpful in this pursuit, it doesn’t fully encompass what they’re about.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : KQuark….did you know that the balanced budget amendment today garnered fewer votes than in the last two times it was trotted out….the breakdown in the GOTP majority is happening.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think it likely will take a couple of years, could pass a DECENT Congress (not this one) and really could stand a serious chance in state legislatures. BTW – I think it’s a 3/4 majority for a CA. The bar is VERY high on such things. It’s a battle, it won’t be quick, but it could work.

  • KQuark : The Congress if much closer to passing a ridiculous Balanced Budget Amendment than countering Citizens United. You are asking the people in power to all take a huge pay cut.

  • Chernynkaya : Oh I’m all for occupying the booth! I don’t see the protesters saying don’t vote–In fact they are energizing the vote even if some of them won’t vote. I don;pt see it as an either/or thing.

  • choicelady : Cher – if you block the people whom you supposedly support, not only do the majority turn their backs but it’s hypocritical. It was my enthusiastic belief at the very beginning that OWS was going to infiltrate (or charge into) the Stock Market, lobbies of major banking corporations, etc. and risk arrest there. When you stop people just living on the edge trying to make ends meet – the ones you supposedly are supporting – it’s totally couterproductive .

  • AlphaBitch : Truly, all I want to see is those who did wrong get punished, and the playing field gets leveled. We HAVE laws. Why not enforce them??

  • AdLib : CL – Whoops, meant to say, could it pass the Senate with a 2/3 vote or get 2/3 of states to ratify it?

  • SallyT : I don’t disagree, CL, but I don’t see any Congressman doing anything or giving them any notice. So, I don’t think the protesters count on anything coming from them unless they keep pushing.

  • KQuark : How can you ever change the financial system? You can make it more equitable by laws that’s all.

  • AdLib : CL – Do you think that a Constitutional Amendment killing Citizens United could pass the Senate or gain 2/3 of state legislatures, the majority of which are Republican, to pass such an amendment?

  • Chernynkaya : Opps, sorry CL–I lost the thread there.

  • choicelady : Sally and Cher – if we do not “Occupy the Voting Booth” then how do they think things WILL change? Never, in the history of human kind, has anything substantive come any way other than through the law, and that requires lawmakers we can and do trust.

  • Chernynkaya : CL Agreed about that. But without blocking intersections, there is no press. I am conflicted about blocking traffic, if you read my LA post, but wince when do protests have to be convenient? If they can find a way to get press for an actions against a corp., great. But that’s private property–not the public streets.

  • SallyT : CL, we have a police chief thinking about running for mayor.

  • AdLib : CL – Nope, what I said was that they don’t seem to be interested in being a lobby group for legislation.

  • choicelady : Cher – AdLib said that, not I.

  • AdLib : CL – I don’t agree, my friend. OWS folk are protesting against a system that they don’t see as legit. I’m not saying they’re completely right or completely wrong but they don’t seem to be seeking a legislative answer. They seem to be seeking a populist consensus first on how things should be. Then, with a majority supporting the same values, legislation could be passed.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I understand the POV of the young folks re. the establishment but it is called that because it is established…my point is work with those closes to your position and move them in your direction….the y have access to the mechanisms for change….

  • choicelady : Sally – that’s GREAT! I see very different movements and outcomes in different cities. Portland has been one of the most effective “Occupy” movements.

  • choicelady : Cher – I’m thinking reviving the US Uncut strategies makes sense. We have to keep our eyes on the corporations, not blocking downtown intersections.

  • SallyT : I am with you, Cher. This is a broad movement. They are not happy with Congress and don’t trust them to change anything.

  • AlphaBitch : To play Republican’s (aka Devil’s) advocate: What good did the hundreds of thousands of anti-war protesters do when we went to war in Iraq? I like to THINK strength in numbers, but there has to be more.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–who said OWS said they have no use for an Amendment?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL….Occupy St. Louis has now linked up to Occupy Chicago which has a roving presence all over Chicagoland and is using three intersections as places for regular presence during the day. Targeted and highly focused.

  • Chernynkaya : Right Sally. They HAVE been targeting the banks and WallSt–I don;t know how people say they don’t know what they are doing.

  • AdLib : Here’s my proposition about OWS. The majority are younger college age or so who feel that the system has failed them. It’s disappointing but not surprising to see that some criticize voting and Democrats as well. They want to see a new, just system but they seem to want to arrive at that in a populist, not political way.

  • choicelady : AdLib – when OWS decides it has no use for a Constitutional Amendment, then we have already LOST. Every movement has directed its final push to changing the laws. Otherwise we’d still be marching over the bridge outside Selma. There is no other way to create change. This is NOT social revolution because the government is not going to fall apart – first, it’s not corrupt (this administration) and second the majority LIKE our government even if not the policies. But change in common law nations comes via legislation or the courts. NOT through unfocused daily demonstrations.

  • KQuark : CL AdLib did suggest a version of that and I think both are good ideas.

  • SallyT : They were targeting the banks yesterday. It just over flowed to the street but that was the police in the street mostly, not protesters. Atleast here in Ptld.

  • Chernynkaya : CL– USUncut was great, but they are gone, although I think Occupy stands on their shoulders.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I’d like to see more of the US Uncut strategies – don’t mob the streets, target a single place, different every day. That is where helping the locked out workers at Sotheby’s is a great strategy – tomorrow some other global capital center. ACCE here targeted different banks and brokerages, moving to a different place each day, protesting foreclosures. They WON a number of cases and kept people in their homes!

  • AdLib : Cher – I read that Taibbi piece you posted today, it was right on target.

  • Chernynkaya : Exactly, AL. I know KQ see it another way, but that piece I posted today from TAibbi really speaks for me.«link» ingstone.com/ent ry/view/id/19309 /pn/all/p/0/?KSI D=879eecf7215481 98c3a57a9fcd1f81 a1

  • SallyT : Those protesters outside of Sotheby’s saying, “Do you know how many people you can feed with the money you are going to spend on another painting?” That got to me.

  • KQuark : Hear! Hear! AB that’s the final place to occupy.

  • AdLib : CL – You know me on this issue, I am very enthusiastic about reversing Citizens United. I would disagree with you though that OWS would be willing or interested in solely promoting legislation. In the views of many of them, this system is too corrupt for such legislation ever to pass anyway.

  • AlphaBitch : I’d love to see an “occupy the polling places” to be sure every vote can happen.

  • KQuark : That’s why I like Obama’s “occupy” FHA foreclosed homes by letting people buy or rent them. The problem is always getting the buyers together and the biggest problem getting loans which is of course circular logic.

Categories: Vox Populi Archives

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

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