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AdLib On June - 25 - 2010
  • AdLib : That’s my cue to end Vox Populi. Good night!

  • javaz : Well, I think it’s time to say good night

  • javaz : Tell me – you’re the one saying the trails from jets are something to fear

  • Blues Tiger : I see vapor trails all the time AdLib

  • AdLib : I believe that you saw trails. I believe they could only be vapor trails.

  • Blues Tiger : why are you so hung up onall this javaz?

  • javaz : Okay – tell us what you’ve seen that is not normal

  • Blues Tiger : believe or don’t believe it

  • Blues Tiger : I am telling you what I have seen is not normal

  • AdLib : That is what you saw.

  • Blues Tiger : I have read all that AdLib

  • Blues Tiger : I never mentioned human extermination

  • AdLib : Perhaps you missed the last part of my post: Depending on atmospheric conditions, contrails may be visible for only a few seconds or minutes, or may persist for many hours. Exhaust vapour trails or contrails usually occur above 8000 meters (26,000 feet), where the temperature is below -40°C (-40°F)

  • javaz : BT – do you really believe that when jets fly over and leave contrails that you think they are chemtrails – is that what you believe?

  • Blues Tiger : so hence I believe they exist

  • Blues Tiger : I said I have seen them

  • Blues Tiger : I also said I have no idea what purpose they serve

  • AdLib : Or we can say that the freezing or melting point for water is 32 degrees and that is a fact.

  • javaz : You’re the person that said you you believed in chem trails, and all I am doing is asking you what their final purpose would be.

  • Blues Tiger : Huh?

  • javaz : Let me ask you BT – do you really believe that the elite who rule the world, would want to eliminate us underlings whereby it would leave them helpless, and who would serve them food and who would clean their homes, scrub their toilets and wash their underpants?

  • Blues Tiger : heh heh heh

  • Blues Tiger : your spending to much time with Alex javaz

  • javaz : I just love this conversation.

  • javaz : Yes, but not the way you’ve interpreted it.

  • Blues Tiger : It;s no secrest that many believe weneed to depopulate, including our own KQ

  • Blues Tiger : Have you not read such statements by Ted Turner or Rockefeller?

  • javaz : So, do you think that they = the Bildenberg (?) or Rothchilds want to kill us all? Is it for population control?

  • Blues Tiger : My personall belief is tha tthe use it to test radars and other things like it

  • javaz : What is it that you think, BT?

  • Blues Tiger : javaz I am willing to bet that whenit occured on succesive days there is a correlation in asthma type problems in ERs increasing and Dr’s perscribing more of those type meds

  • AdLib : And think about how long it would take for a near weightless ice crystal to drop low enough from a -40 C altitude to 33 C degrees, a total of 73 degrees.

  • javaz : BT – do you believe that it’s a thing to help us all to combat a possible biological war fare attack? Or do you think it’s a possible thing whereby they want to kill us all?

  • Blues Tiger : Sure thing and the Government tod the UN they had proof of WMD’s too

  • AdLib : BT – Ice can’t melt at -40 C. That is an immutable law of science.

  • Blues Tiger : extensive patterns of flight that blocked out the sun

  • AdLib : From Wikipedia: Contrails (short for “condensation trails”) or vapour trails are artificial clouds that are the visible trails of condensed water vapour made by the exhaust of aircraft engines. As the hot exhaust gases cool in the surrounding air they may precipitate a cloud of microscopic water droplets. If the air is cold enough, this trail will comprise tiny ice crystals.[1] The wingtip vortices which trail from the wingtips and wing flaps of aircraft are sometimes partly visible due to condensation in the cores of the vortices. Each vortex is a mass of spinning air and the air pressure at the centre of the vortex is very low. These wingtip vortices are not the same as contrails. Depending on atmospheric conditions, contrails may be visible for only a few seconds or minutes, or may persist for many hours. Exhaust vapour trails or contrails usually occur above 8000 meters (26,000 feet), where the temperature is below -40°C (-40°F).

  • Blues Tiger : not trails

  • Blues Tiger : our blues skies clouded over

  • javaz : Well, if you believe that it is a chemical spray, you are an intelligent person and you must have some reason why you believe it – hey, I am a very open minded person – tell me why you think that our government is poisoning us?

  • Blues Tiger : I know what I saw and how it was here daily

  • Blues Tiger : It’s like convincing someone you saw a UFO

  • Blues Tiger : Ok AdLib

  • AdLib : Here’s the scientific problem with this theory, yes, crystallized vapor does not dissipate quickly at high altitudes because it is below freezing that high and it simply can’t melt until gravity eventually pulls it lower.

  • Blues Tiger : How owuld I know that javaz?

  • javaz : BT- who is it that is ordering the chemical sprays from jets into our atmosphere and any idea on the reason why?

  • AdLib : It would be invisible at lower altitudes but would cover the same area.

  • javaz : Cool – I love this conversation so much – in that you actually believe that – I love it – now, I am a believer in some conspiracies – such as 9/11 and even Pearl Harbor and the JFK assassination, but when it comes to contrails from jets, nope.

  • Blues Tiger : water vapor disapates and this stuff doesn’t

  • AdLib : We have Edwards AF base to the east, Palmdale to the north, they fly high altitude jets. No mystery. And BT, think about it, if the gov’t really was doing something like that, all they would have to do is fly a plane lower and the “chem” wouldn’t be turned into vapor.

  • Blues Tiger : AdLib when it occures daily that would imply that atmosheric conditions remain the same from January to Sept

  • Blues Tiger : it would be naive to think that certain elements of Government wouldn’t be capable of spraying subtances to test on populations or areas

  • AdLib : BT – It is straightforward science. Vapor crystallizes at low temperatures, that is what you see.

  • javaz : I think what it is water vapor from jets

  • javaz : Think about it, if the chem trails were real, wouldn’t the powers that be – be wearing masks?

  • Blues Tiger : what else is there to believe?

  • Blues Tiger : I just said I have seen my share of them

  • javaz : BT! Seriously, you believe in Chem trails?

  • AdLib : We have vapor trails in the skies frequently in LA. Nothing mysterious about them, we see the high altitude planes making them.

  • Blues Tiger : From about 1999- 2007’s it was a daily occurence

  • Blues Tiger : They aren’t around as much as they used to be

  • Blues Tiger : I have seen my share

  • AdLib : Heh! Government is monitoring the tv usage of a family in AZ? For what nefarious plot? To manipulate American Idol? And implanting chips during colonoscopies?

  • Blues Tiger : Those RFID’s are in all kinds of products

  • javaz : LOL Do you believe in Chem trails, BT?

  • Blues Tiger : Just about anything digital or electronic is being montitered

  • javaz : I’ve got tinfoil on my head and my husband’s heads and the dog head.

  • AdLib : I’m not so spooked by National IDs, we have state IDs. But I am bothered by how they could be abused and how we would lose so much privacy if it had to be provided and scanned so many places that we go. BTW, did you know that their are chips called RFIDs that are in clothes for inventory and security purposes but continue functioning, you could be tracked that way eventually.

  • Blues Tiger : They might be javaz

  • javaz : AdLib! You know we have the HDTV box in our house, because we don’t pay for TV, but that HD Box thing was so we could switch from analog – there are people who believe the government is monitoring them! LMAO

  • AdLib : javaz – It is a serious concern, that we can be monitored more and more whenever we go outside of our house…and in our homes, our computer and phone use can also be monitored. It’s not conspiracy theory or paranoia, it’s the real world.

  • javaz : LOL – there are people when they get a colonoscopy believe that they’ve had a chip implanted – it’s already happened down south whereby some guy killed 3 people at the medical center.

  • Blues Tiger : The Senate is pushing for them

  • javaz : Well, it’s not that far off, is it? With some wanting National ID cards.

  • AdLib : Hmm…maybe 100 years in the future, Americans won’t be allowed to travel without carrying National IDs, will lose most freedoms to express themselves, to vote, etc….but they can carry guns wherever they go. SOunds like Tea Bagger heaven.

  • javaz : LOL, AdLIB! I read them sites, too, but seriously, look at the cameras on the freeways, and now they are trying to get drones?

  • AdLib : Heh! They will have to drag me kicking and screaming to keep a straight face when the phrase “FEMA camps” is mentioned.

  • javaz : We are loosing privacy rights and freedom rights, except to buy guns and fireworks, but we really are not free here,

  • AdLib : BT – Too true. That’s why there are bigger things at stake with killing this AZ law.

  • Blues Tiger : all I know is that they willhave to drag me kicking and screaming to the FEMA Camps…

  • javaz : When we were in France, we made friends with French people and there was a couple that questioned just that. “Americans like to say they have freedoms, but they cannot buy cigarettes and travel over state lines.”

  • AdLib : We are less free and giving the government, and police ARE an arm of the government, more rights to take away our freedom to conduct ourselves in society will accelerate greater and greater losses of freedom.

  • Blues Tiger : we are headed in that direction AdLib

  • AdLib : Not only “deserve neither” but will end up losing both.

  • javaz : Exactly AdLib. It’s not Obama because it started long before him, but we are not free here.

  • AdLib : How does the Benj Franklin saying go, “Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither?”

  • Blues Tiger : never were

  • AdLib : BT – We’ve lost so many aspects of our freedoms, especially after the Bush years. What’s astounding is that the Baggers are nuts about government taking over and taking their freedom away and yet they approve of giving greater power to police to impose on our freedom to drive our cars where we wish in order to conduct a racist witch hunt.

  • javaz : Because it just didn’t seem right when this is the United States of America and we’re supposed to free here, but we aren’t as free as we like to think.

  • Blues Tiger : Old people running drugs?

  • javaz : We were profiled in Ohio and it scared the crap out of us, because our AZ license is good until we’re 65 years old and our pics on our licenses are faded and they hassled us. I was the passenger, and I’ve never been stopped by a cop in my life as a driver – knock on wood and hope this won’t jinx it – but we were pulled over and detained and harassed in Ohio. When the cop came to me, tapped on the window and asked me for my license, I really did want to ask him why because I wasn’t driving, but was reading a book, but I was afraid to ask him. Then they ran me and then they brought out the dogs. When we got back home, I went on the Net and asked and a supposed cop answered that we were in a known drug corridor whereby older people in motor homes were delivering drugs to supplement their social security. But that happening made me think and think about blacks being targeted and stopped because they were black or Hispanic. We actually were discomforted. Can’t say we were scared, but it juts didn’

  • Blues Tiger : well most cops suck in my book

  • Blues Tiger : Ohio cops suck javaz

  • Blues Tiger : I am part caucasian , but blonde and light skinned

  • AdLib : Would we all agree that stopping Americans for prejudicial reasons is wrong? Whether it’s because you’re from OK or you aren’t white?

  • AdLib : Especially the ones from Muskogee?

  • Blues Tiger : It’s called they want to put anOkie in The Pokie

  • javaz : I’m talking border. I am talking about driving from Indiana into Ohio.

  • Blues Tiger : Damn javaz I have been pulled over at least 20 times in my life in Texas for having an Oklahoma Tag

  • AdLib : That sounds awful javaz, sorry you had to go through that.

  • Blues Tiger : I have had my car taken complety apart, seats removed ect at the border

  • javaz : Really. Have you ever been detained and then separated and interrogated and then the cops bring dogs out to sniff your vehicle? Have you been a passenger in a vehicle and they pull you over for no reason, and then take your husband to the back of the vehicle to question him and then they make him stand at the back and then the police come asking you, as a passenger for ID and then question you and then they bring the dogs out to sniff for drugs? And all you’ve done is drive through a state on a highway to get to another state, and you broke no laws, none, yet they pulled you over hassled you? Ever have that happen?

  • AdLib : BT – It was Cinco De Mayo when they did it, in light of the racist bill that was being passed. Clearly, they did it to provoke, insult and harass.

  • AdLib : My allegory with the pizza was that anything can be used to attack someone else. If some bullies choose to use the American flag to harass minorities, it’s just as wrong.

  • Blues Tiger : the idiots who weren’t always wentto jail

  • Blues Tiger : I was prepared to be stopped

  • Blues Tiger : no biggy

  • javaz : How did that make you feel?

  • Blues Tiger : Sure javaz

  • AdLib : BT – Students were waving mexican flags in school?

  • javaz : BT- have you ever been profiled? You know, pulled over and stopped by the police?

  • Blues Tiger : weren’t 3 of the 5 kids sent home of hispanic origin?

  • AdLib : I think the flag thing is irrelevant. When there are marches celebrating national identity, Irish, Italian, British, etc., national flags are waved in America. Freedom of expression and tolerance is what this nation is supposed to be about.

  • Blues Tiger : Thats just it AdLib, mexican students waving mexican flags were offended

  • javaz : What?

  • AdLib : BT – The context of the situation you refer to was that the bullies who dressed up that way did so to intimidate and express hatred towards latino students. Look, I love pizza but if someone tried to shove it down my throat, it probably wouldn’t taste as good to me.

  • Blues Tiger : Javaz I don’t belive for one second that most of the marchers for immigration flying american flags are doing it because they wanttoo, they are schooled too because of the big marches with all the mexican flags turned people in this country againstthe movement

  • javaz : Well, it’s complicated, but let me say that I am against the criminal element, but am not against Mexicans coming here to work and find a better life. Mexico is so poor, and can you blame them for wanting to come here for a better life? The best way to stop them from coming here is to go after the businesses and corporations that hire them.

  • Blues Tiger : Thats would be it AdLib

  • AdLib : Murder is a just punishment for breaking immigration law, that’s what such hateful people think.

  • Blues Tiger : I despise seeing immigrants ripping ur flag down and raising the mexican one over schools and post offices

  • AdLib : BT – Gotcha! Qualified prejudice by such types who might say, “I don’t hate them but they’re not equal to me as a white person.”

  • Blues Tiger : I honestly resent kids wearing american flag clothing on May 5th being sent home from school to placate Mexicans

  • javaz : I know that, BT, and my husband is like you, whereby he and I do disagree, but civilly.

  • Blues Tiger : franky I fail to understand why you think all the illegal immigration is so harmless

  • Blues Tiger : I am not all that pro mexican immigrant

  • javaz : To be more tolerant and open minded and not violent

  • Blues Tiger : ok javaz but what is it you expect of people?

  • AdLib : BT – Exactly. After LBJ and the Civil Rights Bill lost the south for the Dems, the Repubs and Nixon conceived of this approach. Coax the religious and racists in the south into the GOP and if successful, they’d win the presidency and have a long term advantage.

  • javaz : You do know that there are people who truly believe that we should place landmines at the border/

  • Blues Tiger : AdLib, I am surrounded by the Blacks are ok in my book but I wouldn’t want my daughter to marry one types

  • AdLib : BT – Prejudice can be branded into people by their parents or experiences when their kids. Children don’t understand perspective and by the time they’re adults, that prejudice has solidified. But there are various degrees or prejudice and principles, as you point out.

  • javaz : You know, I grew up in Detroit, and I get racism, but it seemed to me that it sort of got better, and then SHOCK my socks off, we elected a black man into the White House and all the racists come crawling out from under their rocks. And it hurts me, shocks me and I don’t know what to do about it. The only difference today is, even though they hate a black man as president, they hate Mexicans even more.

  • Blues Tiger : That and they needed Wallace supporters to win

  • Blues Tiger : it is a doing the right thing vs the wrong thing mindset…

  • AdLib : The partisan and regional divisions go back to Nixon and aligning the GOP with the religious in the South. They started us down this road and this is a natural progression. As the south began to have its own party, the rest of us were left as adversaries. Cynical politics started this divide and it is the nature of tears to get bigger under pressure.

  • Blues Tiger : say they might be slightly prejudiced, but if a black person was being harrassed the would be the first to jump in … mainly for thehopes of a good fight but they would be there protecting someone

  • javaz : Vietnam had the country divided, but not like today.

  • AdLib : javaz – it’s hard to escape local perspective. Here in Cali, the type of people you describe are rare indeed. They do exist out here but you don’t run into them much.

  • javaz : Maybe during the Civil War?

  • javaz : We actually thought about moving, but we do love where we live, if you can set aside all the politics, and really, how could we move, because we’d never be able to sell our house because it is now worth less than we paid. So, we’re staying, and trying desperately to keep our sanity, especially after today, but my god, our nation has never been this polarized, has it?

  • Blues Tiger : whats weird about the rednecks I grew up with

  • AdLib : It really was a much more enlightened time back then when it came to sex. It’s really disappointing that the pendulum swung so far back that a nipple on tv caused horror, hysteria and hundreds of thousands in fines.

  • AdLib : Free mullets were great too!

  • Blues Tiger : heh heh heh

  • Blues Tiger : I miss my mullet

  • Blues Tiger : Free love was kinda nice

  • AdLib : BT – I too know about many rednecks who get high and have less than acceptable opinions of blacks, gays, jews, etc. But getting high didn’t make one a hippy, living in a commune, protesting the war, those kinds of things did. Many grew their hair long, were fine about free love and pot but didn’t have any principles.

  • Blues Tiger : so what you had was too high people who enjoy the fruits of socialism complaning about the race of the Prez

  • javaz : Oh, and when it comes to Muslims – well, that was another thing, and here I thought I had a hard time with that because of 9/11, but these people take it to another extreme – these are protesting long haired hippies from the 60’s that smoke pot and still love smoking pot and it just shocks me. Really, I mean, these are the last people that I’d ever expect to be so racist and thinking Obama is a socialist.

  • AdLib : Brewer is a very powerful and threatening politician. Not.

  • Blues Tiger : I know lot’s of red neck pot smokers

  • AdLib : javaz – Then they were not legit hippies. The whole hippy movement was about peace and love, one couldn’t be a racist hippy.

  • Blues Tiger : not sure what it is all about other than Brewer mentioned it

  • Blues Tiger : Some message to be delivered from their meeting in DC

  • AdLib : What deadline, BT?

  • Blues Tiger : dang my typing sucks

  • javaz : I think that it’s less than that, AdLib. What I think it is, is that they cannot handle a black man, or as they said, a half-N-word living in the White House and that just shocks us. You know, you think you know people, and then you find out that you never knew them at all, but I will say that they did play some fine guitar, and seriously, they really can play.

  • Blues Tiger : So did President bamameet the 6 pm deadline for Brewere tonight?

  • Blues Tiger : they just don’t have to live with him

  • AdLib : BT – I want to like Sheriff Joe a lot so can we send him to Antarctica?

  • Blues Tiger : Lots of people in this country support the man

  • Blues Tiger : It;s not so hard to like Sherrif Joe if you don’t live near him

  • AdLib : Well, I’m not psychic but I did call it. They are miserable, unhappy people who only have their resentments of others to salve their regrets about their own lives. It is much easier to hate and blame others than face one’s own shortcomings.

  • javaz : The woman is retired and the husband is on disability, and yeah we, we get that, but seriously, I mean these people were pot smoking hippies, and liberal and they live in Oregon, and they love the liberal of Oregon, but they shocked us, and I mean shocked us, because of their politics. This was supposed to be a fun social haven’t seen you in 5 years occasion, and my husband sort of warned me not to bring up politics, so I made a point not to, but they had to interject at every turn, and we had a good time, but we had to keep diverting their attention from talking politics.

  • AdLib : The reason I ask is that many of those who spew such hatred are often miserable in their own lives and NEED to have hatred and blame towards others for their own failures and insecurities in life.

  • AdLib : javaz, can I ask what these people do now, do they make a nice living?

  • javaz : But, they did play some killer guitar

  • javaz : They love Sheriff Joe and love our AZ governor for SB1070 and they hate the politically correctness of today, whereby we can’t call blacks colored or call a spade a spade, and that’s a quote, and they really hate Mexicans, and it just upsets me, because we so looked forward to this day and seeing these people again, and then they brought their hate and ignorance into our home, and it’s all because Obama is a black man in the White House, and I kid you not about that. I mean, these people were not like this when Clinton was prez, and they hated BushCO, but my world is rocked off kilter because we never expected this.

  • Blues Tiger : They really hate Obama?

  • AdLib : Viva f’n nuts!

  • AdLib : javaz – There are plenty of sane people, lots at The Planet and on plenty of other progressive blogs. Many in my personal circles. Still, I have some die-hard Republican friends who still support issues that go against their own interests and just spout the same GOP talking points without any critical thinking about them…and like you, we just agree to disagree sometimes…othe r times, thanks to everything I learn out there and at The Planet from the membership, I have way more ammo and facts at my fingertips than they do and they do get frustrated sometimes. But we get along!

  • javaz : LOL BT

  • Blues Tiger : I am the only sane person left javazzzzz the rest of you are all F’n nuts

  • AdLib : Viva Lakers!

  • javaz : My husband lived on a hippy commune way back when in Oregon and knows these people from that era, and we’ve seen then before this a few times, and they were Liberals back then, but they hate Obama because of his “socialism” and that really shocked me, seriously, and I cooked all day yesterday in making salads and beans and stuff and cleaning the house to perfection, and then my husband tuned all the guitars and polished them, and then for them to come to our home today and start spouting that nonsense, well, we just tried to get them to play the guitars, and they did, but when it came to breaks, well, I played piano and tried changing the subject, and then finally we had to tell them to stop because we disagreed and we needed to agree to disagree. Jeepers, are there no sane people in the world any longer?

  • AdLib : I think the morphing of many from hippies into yuppies says a lot about the malleable nature of people…or at least Americans. Whatever the latest popular thing is, many people will toss away everything they cared about before to be part of the newest thing. There are not so many people of principle out there in the real world.

  • Blues Tiger : Or better yet fly the flag of Mexico over a Lakers win

  • Blues Tiger : As a country boy someone needs to explain to me why people riot over sports games

  • AdLib : Heh!

  • Blues Tiger : Moi?

  • AdLib : I read that in Brokaw’s book, the 60’s and 70’s was in fact all about you, BT!

  • Blues Tiger : it was always all about me

  • Blues Tiger : Look at it this way, my all about me 60’s hippie sister became an all about me and my money 80’s yuppie

  • AdLib : These types confuse maturity with selfishness and bitterness.

  • AdLib : I think it turned out that many people who were kids in the 60’s and 70’s enjoyed the lifestyle but then reverted back to their parent’s ideologies when they got older. They are the type that can justify hypocrisy to their own satisfaction. They were happy to take freedom and enjoyed what it brought but they don’t want others to have it.

  • javaz : It shocked us, it truly did, more so for my husband, but YIKES, I think it is the end of the world as we know it – I mean, they thought the Repigs apologizing to BP was a good thing and whoa – we’d been looking forward so much to see them and then they end up being Beckers. But they did play some great guitar and put me to shame in that department.

  • Blues Tiger : Reminds of that Dennis Hopper movie Flashback javazz

  • AdLib : javaz – not OT at all, in fact very much on the topic!

  • AdLib : I’m with you. We would be just as hypocritical as far too many Repubs and Baggers to call all southerners or evangelicals or even all Repubs or Baggers evil just because they oppose out opinions. There are good people among them and nasty people among Dems (Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman anyone?).

  • javaz : Oops, sorry about the OT

  • javaz : Friends from Oregon just left and wouldn’t you’d think people from Oregon and when they were younger and lived with my husband on a commune way back when, shouldn’t they be Liberals or at least Democrats? Newsflash for us – they are not – they are FOX people and think Obama is a commie socialist, so we tried very hard not to talk politics and just play the gee-tars and they are very good at guitar.

  • Blues Tiger : what Oklahoma’s real political problem is, is low# registered voters and low turnout…

  • AdLib : It’s just disappointing that all over the US, CA included, such transparently ignorant and hateful people can be viable candidates just by cloaking themselves in religion. I respect other people’s beliefs but the turning off of critical thinking that occurs when people wave their religion in front of others is so anti-democratic.

  • Blues Tiger : The funny thing about being around all these red state people, being raised with them spending your whole life around them, they just aren’t all bad people to me

  • AdLib : That bodes well then. I think that percentage is no different than here in Cali.

  • Blues Tiger : I would think 20% could be considered hardcore in my book

  • Blues Tiger : about 20 %

  • Blues Tiger : very Religious? hmmmmmmm not as many who claim to be very Religious…

  • AdLib : What percentage of voters do you think are very religious in OK?

  • Blues Tiger : I would love to see her lose to this woman

  • AdLib : Hey javaz! Just a few beers left but here ya go!

  • Blues Tiger : javazzzzzz

  • javaz : am I too late for the party?

  • Blues Tiger : But if you look at the form I posted for voting for my band # 109 is Best local thing that would give Sally Kern nightmares

  • AdLib : It would be so sweet to see such a hater as Kern lose. Then she’d be even more convinced that gays are destroying America!

  • Blues Tiger : None that I have seen as of yet

  • AdLib : Is there any polling on the race?

  • Blues Tiger : she is from a istrict that is very evangelical, has evevangelical college in it

  • Blues Tiger : Kern is not that well liked here

  • AdLib : I just love the dynamics of that race. Whether she can beat Kern or not, it makes a big statement.

  • Blues Tiger : I linked her site in OT yesterday CL

  • choicelady : BT – so I heard! She’s already our fave here! Now – what are her politics? She’d better be GOOD on our issues!

  • AdLib : BT – It’s been great, warm but not too warm. Really beautiful days, one after another.

  • Blues Tiger : it was around 80% humidity today

  • Blues Tiger : Nite CL make sure everyone at the Parade knows there is a trangender woman running against Sally Kern out this way

  • choicelady : Oooo BT – it’s gonna be mid 70s here. Get your mint julep going! Sorry about that – and you have humidity, too!

  • AdLib : Great to have you back CL! Get some rest!

  • Blues Tiger : So hw’s the weather out in Cali? it’s gonna be around 100-105 here next couple of days

  • choicelady : Dear all – I need to drop out, too, even though it’s only 9:39 Left Coast Time. Have to bring our banner to the Gay Pride parade. Let the Philistines know that people of faith love ALL people, no exceptions. That said, I can’t quite see why I have to be there at 8:30 for a 10:00 start, but hey… GREAT to get a chance to talk with all of you. I’ve missed being present, and it’s lovely to be back! Abig, virtual hug to all!

  • AdLib : I mean it CL. I can only imagine how difficult it was to work for something so beneficial to so many and have to deal with the fact that lies, deception and evil intent carried the day. Yet, you press on and I am so behind you on that!

  • kesmarn : Thanks again, y’all made my day!

  • AdLib : Kes – Sleep well. Wonderful article today! Have a great weekend!

  • Blues Tiger : Nite Kes sweet dreams

  • choicelady : AdLib – that’s the nicest thing I never heard! Thank you!

  • kesmarn : Oops! Meant to add a good night to all! And, yes, BT. Gotta get to bed before 3 a.m. this time! Work tomorrow!

  • choicelady : kes – my prayers right back to Ohio and for you! Sleep well!

  • Blues Tiger : it’s early compared to last week kes!!!

  • AdLib : CL – put your hands over your ears and hum. Kes – I too am a huge fan of Choicelady. She is walking the walk on issues that sincerely matter. She’s a hero but too modest to ever accept that mantle. Okay CL, you can stop now.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I surely hope that’s right about the absentee margin. If PG&E and Mercury Insurance can buy this election as blatant as it is, then we are surely doomed.

  • kesmarn : My pleasure. Well, it’s about time to stop posting and start praying for this Ohioan who’s looking at a clock that says 12:35!

  • Blues Tiger : Take rural Oklahoma, if a kid isn’t cut out for college he/she may have very limited opprotunities within the community for gainful employment… many join the Military because they feel it is only option… If they had other options to serve or help they would do that …

  • choicelady : Oh, kes – thank you SO much! That means the world!

  • AdLib : CL – I had heard that the margin of loss and the percentage of ansentee ballots made it certain that they couldn’t win. However, never underestimate what wealthy corps will stoop to.

  • choicelady : BT – I don’t disagree. It is such a conundrum since an awful lot of the enlistees are people who have few other options. And as with Vietnam, they were people who thought they were doing the right thing. Found out not, but my feedback from Afghanistan vets is that they believe they helped to make a difference for the better while the Viet vets have no such illusions.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, as you know, I’m a praying person (after my fashion) and you’re in my prayers.

  • AdLib : BT – I hear you. I don’t think that we should be making the military such a huge employer, especially of those with the lowest incomes. We do have a military that is mostly populated by those who can’t afford other options. The poor fighting to protect the interests of the wealthiest. After all, when does a wealthy person enlist in the military?

  • kesmarn : BT, that same philosophical battle went on in the 60s, when people who risked all to resist the draft resented the ones who willingly enlisted. Those divides persist to this day.

  • Blues Tiger : The whole Tillman saga is intriquing… I haveread he was about to expose how fake these wars really are…

  • choicelady : kes – there have been other incidents. I just keep on keepin’ on. I DEEPLY appreciate your concern! I am staying as safe as I can.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I am still wary that 16 and 17 might pass if the absentee ballots don’t do well. Disgusting that so many people can be hornswoggled.

  • kesmarn : Great to hear that, c’lady. But please, stay safe while you’re fighting the good fight. I know there have been attempts to intimidate you.

  • Blues Tiger : To me part of the problem with confronting the MIC and how it is destroying our country is the mind set that we should support these people who willingly volunteer and make claims that it is a sense of Patriotism that compelled them to join… I am slowly becoming more and more a hrad ass about it

  • AdLib : Pat Tillman clearly was driven by his concept of patriotism and the way the military betrayed his family only underlines why it is the military commanders and decision makers who are to be distrusted, not those who earnestly want to support the country by joining. At the same time, I have a huge problem with recruiting on campuses and some of the awful recruitment tactics they use.

  • choicelady : kes – yes I will. Working out how to deal with them on several fronts. I will not give in! EVER!

  • choicelady : AdLib – had a LTE today in the Sacramento Bee pointing out the Big Lies of the Reep minority leaders. Felt good. But they will never see the light, not EVER.

  • kesmarn : c’lady, are you going to do an article on the Planet on those dominionists? I hope so.

  • AdLib : BT – Thanks!!! That’s what it was!

  • choicelady : I will be writing about the Dominionists in the military etc. when I can get a second. They are terrifying. Look up the “Seven Pillars” to creep yourselves out. And while you’re at it “Christian Embassy”. These folks are out to rule the world. Someone has to stop them! (And yes, if there are lurkers on line, I AM the one who’s doing it.)

  • AdLib : CL – I was furious at the defeat of Prop 15 and the near passage of the corporation welfare props. It is disgusting how huge they will lie but it does underline that props have to have a huge promotional push that anticipates the worst outright lies from corps.

  • Blues Tiger : We have the largest Air Force in world AdLib, #2 is the Navy Air Forces

  • kesmarn : Exactly, c’lady. And sometimes I think very emotional, intensely sentimental “patriotism” turns our sights away from looking at the issues squarely on. There are issues like domestic abuse in the military and the way military folks relate to civvies in foreign countries that need sunlight.

  • choicelady : BT – I understand. It’s hard for our denominations because should they BE military chaplains or not? We finally have some younger clergy who say they MUST because the Christian extremists are turning our folks into crusaders. So we’re watching our CLERGY bite the bullet, literally, and going in to bring a very different counsel to the troops. And hating the war at the same time.

  • AdLib : We need a military and it isn’t the soldiers who are the issue, they deserve respect for their commitment. However, we don’t need this massive a military. Where did I hear that the biggest navy in the world is the US Navy and the second biggest is the US Marines, or something like that. It’s like spending a million on a massive prison like fence to protect your house but not having enough money left to buy food or repair it before it collapses on you and your family.

  • choicelady : kes – my brother was a CO, and I’m long anti-war, but I am moved by the people and their devotion even when I hate the cause. I watch country music videos to understand a lot of that – lots of people still go in for really patriotic reasons. It’s not mine to knock. It IS mine to honor them as human beings in service however they see it. But I SO want them NOT to go!

  • Blues Tiger : I am of the mind set of not actually wishing the soldiers any real ill will, but I am no longer part of the I support the Tropps not the war crowd

  • AdLib : CL – We do need to work towards building a profound entity that represents the people since the corporations have co-opted too much in our democracy.

  • choicelady : AdLib – and here Prop. 15 was defeated on lies. Papers said it was supported with TAX money when it would be fees on lobbyists (including me) not tax money, and the pundits KNOW that.

  • kesmarn : You wouldn’t believe how the military is worshipped around here. At a holiday parade, when a float with sailors on it went by, little old ladies stood up, saluted and cried. It was kinda touching in a depressing way. I respect those who join as an honorable choice, but there are other thing to consider, too.

  • AdLib : This is the insanity that eternal campaigning has created. The convenient campaigning position is almost never the best position for solving problems in the long term. SO, we blunder along, making little progress and occassionally sliding back two steps for every one because it means better hopes of re-election. And what does re-election bring? More campaign politics.

  • choicelady : BT – I’m caught ‘tween a rock and hard place. We support the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and things such as repeal of DADT – and think people shouldn’t be IN the military at all. But we can’t turn our backs on those who are there. The sound you hear is my teeth grinding.

  • Blues Tiger : I wish we could get people to wrap thier minds around that not joining the Military is the most Patriotic thing you could do for this Country

  • choicelady : AdLib – great minds…all of us. GROW has to take over. No other option.

  • kesmarn : Right. This is like the 1937 part of the Great Depression. We sure do learn from history don’t we?

  • AdLib : CL – Jinx!

  • choicelady : kes – what will happen now is that without income, spending will crash, businesses will fail, and we will head backwards, not forwards. This will be a disaster for so many. Where is the understanding that recovery happens from below NOT from above? Did we not learn that tax cuts for the rich and corporations are a disaster?

  • AdLib : kes – The Repubs and MSM have the Dems rolling over again on deficit spending. So, great plan, let’s stop spending so that the deficit is lower when America collapses.

  • AdLib : CL – We CAN trust Dems who have strong principles, the problem is that there are probably less than 40 of those in the Senate.

  • kesmarn : Just read the article today about the bill on COBRA, unemployment, Medicaid, etc. going belly up. Does not bode well.

  • choicelady : BT – way to GO! That’s very impressive!

  • Blues Tiger : We managed to trade in an 91 Ford Van and with manufactuers rebates included got a nice nissan for 13,500

  • choicelady : If we can’t trust Dems, what’s left, AdLib?

  • AdLib : BT – :smile:

  • AdLib : CL – I fear that the bravado may have only been a campaign ploy since Congress isn’t standing up to the corps on these things.

  • kesmarn : BT, me too.

  • choicelady : AdLib – that’s brilliant! I think I will do that. Maybe some light will shine in his eyes instead of between his ears.

  • Blues Tiger : heh heh heh just kidding

  • kesmarn : I fully intend to be a socialist parasite for as long as I can possibly get away with it.

  • Blues Tiger : My brother-inlaw?

  • AdLib : Three cheers for socialist parasites! Are there any other kind of parasites?

  • choicelady : I hope an energy bill will pass. I was SO impressed with the Dems on finance reform – Harry demanding that a filibuster BE a filibuster – and now they are wimping on unemployment and COBRA and everything. What HAPPENED?

  • kesmarn : Yes, BT, “cash for clunkers” was great. But, of course, if it were continued that would turn us all into socialist parasites.

  • AdLib : CL – You should mail yourself postcards that he can read that say exactly what you want to get through to him, when he delivers them, he’ll read them and get the message…until you’re ready to stop mailing yourself postcards.

  • Blues Tiger : Edmond Oklahoma Post Office

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think I’m more worried he reads MY mail!

  • Blues Tiger : Kes we took advandageof the “cash for clunkers”… I think it should be an ongoing program…

  • kesmarn : Had forgotten that, too, BT.

  • choicelady : BT – I did not remember OK had that rather dubious honor. Sorry!

  • AdLib : Does anyone here think an energy bill will be passed this year? If so, do you think it will have profound incentives for getting off oil?

  • kesmarn : Wow. 40 mpg is awesome, c’lady. My Taurus is 10 years old, too, but, needless to say….

  • choicelady : AdLib and kes – *I* am the one who nearly goes postal because of him! I wish I could like him, but he’s maddening.

  • Blues Tiger : unfortunatly “going Postal” has it’s origins in Okla

  • AdLib : I wonder, does your mailman ever read his mail?

  • choicelady : Kes – at the moment I’m driving a 10-year-old Saturn that gets close to 40 mpg on the open road. I drive the limit of 65 most places, and that does well. I won’t give it up until the wheels fall off unless I find another that is that good.

  • kesmarn : Now I know where the term “going postal” originated, c’lady.

  • AdLib : CL – In honor of your mailman, we should do an SNL type parody of Jeopardy about politics where the contestants offer ridiculous questions to sensible answers.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I intend to be an older person who has never driven a golf cart! But I’m open to small cars for street, not necessarily interstate, driving.

  • kesmarn : Good night, b’ito. Rest well!

  • kesmarn : Exactly, c’lady. It’s survival of the biggest (vehicles) on the highways now.

  • AdLib : Night bito! Rest well!

  • choicelady : Goodnight, bito – sweet dreams!

  • Blues Tiger : Nite Bito

  • AdLib : BT – I don’t know that they would work for families, most are two seaters and have little storage but there are millions of people who they would work perfectly for, especially elderly folks…who are used to driving golf carts anyway!

  • choicelady : AdLib – PERFECT name -Ant cars! I love it!

  • bitohistory : My docs and most stores that I go to are within 5-6 miles. I am having a good time, but I must say good night. peace

  • choicelady : I think we went wrong, kes, when we built superhighways without a dedicated section (walled off) for big vehicles. Then yes, small, efficient cars could drive around not worrying about Hummers, semis, etc.

  • AdLib : CL – When my daughter saw her first Smart Car she nick named them “Ant Cars” because they’re so small. I always remind her and prefer that name!

  • Blues Tiger : It definitly was an uninformed electrote in SC CL

  • kesmarn : Wish there could be towns in which the behemoth vehicles had to be parked on the perimeters and only the little GEMS, etc. could be driven in town. Removes the “Hummer Must Crush GEM” motivation.

  • choicelady : AdLib – my mailman would have been one of those. He has all the answers – just doesn’t know any of the questions!

  • Blues Tiger : AdLib if we get 50% of americans to dribe those around town in next few years we will be taking tthe first major steps…

  • AdLib : CL – I get very frustrated with people who vote for idiotic reasons. That is exactly how people like Bush get elected, “I just want to vote for someone who seems like I could have a beer with him!”

  • choicelady : bito and BT – my next car may be one of those Smart cars. I commute about 7 miles each way. I’m not fond of the all electric jobs since you could run out of non-gas too easily in our traffic, but the Smart car seems sensible – one outran us on I-5 – peppy little thing!

  • AdLib : bito – It’s worth checking out then, for driving to the store and back, doctor appointments, etc., it sure would do the job.

  • Blues Tiger : BITO thats what I amtalking about, making these vehicles affordable for all… Get everyone using these for around town errands, going to movies, shopping ect… Save the cars for hiway travel

  • choicelady : bito – your building trades skills. Can’t do better in a world that’s falling apart.

  • AdLib : And the judge in his porn case will no doubt take him down for claiming to be indigent.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think his presence stinks, too. But why did people vote for him? Our mailman (a true doofus) says he’ll vote for whoever sends the least stuff to him. I reminded him of SC – he thought it was funny. Why there is NO democracy in America is my mailman!

  • bitohistory : Adlib, that’s all I would need it for is around town. Road car–rent it

  • Blues Tiger : He claims he saved it from Military days… not too hard to do… If he did spending it wasn’t very smart considering his circumstances

  • kesmarn : Unfortunately, de Mint is going to crush Green. Sigh.

  • AdLib : BT – Alvin may have won fairly, thanks to the ignorance of SC Dems but where did his $10k come from to file for running? It still smells fishy to me.

  • Blues Tiger : AdLib it loos as though Alvin Greene is going to survive to run

  • AdLib : Bito – a friend of mine drives one of those around town, I’ve gone with him in it. It’s basically like a golf cart, doesn’t go terribly fast but is very cool.

  • choicelady : Hi kes – good to see you, too!

  • bitohistory : Hello! Clady!!! What skills?

  • kesmarn : Hi, c’lady,good to see you!

  • choicelady : Helooooo back BT!

  • Blues Tiger : Helloooooooooooo Choicelady

  • choicelady : AdLib – HI back atcha!

  • AdLib : CHOICELADY!!! Hi!!!

  • Blues Tiger : Those are cool Bito Thanks

  • AdLib : Thx BT. And isn’t this a national security issue that’s bigger than Afghanistan and Al Qaeda? Al Qaeda destroyed many lives and two massive buildings…but compared to what BP has destroyed long term, it’s not as severe.

  • choicelady : Hi all – just dropped in at last. Bito-your skills are just what are needed! Glad, too, to see you here with us!

  • kesmarn : And so much of Pentagon spending is wasteful even in the best of times. Paying ridiculous amts for common items, and building big plane and stuff that the military neither wants nor needs.

  • bitohistory : BT, «link»

  • Blues Tiger : Hear Hear

  • AdLib : What’s frustrating is that we’re in an economic hole and now even Dems are balking at the gov’t spending money on domestic programs, including energy. Meanwhile, the Pentagon can freely keep devouring a bigger and bigger percentage of our treasury. I think it’s time to declare that being energy independent is more important that fighting unwinnable wars, carve off what would be a small fraction of Pentagon spending and finance a remodeling of our energy structure here.

  • kesmarn : “changed” not “change” The later it gets, the more typos I make!

  • kesmarn : My son and I change the heating element on our water heater and that was an all day job, since we were muddling through on our own! However — we did get it changed and it didn’t leak and neither of us was electrocuted. So much for small favors.

  • bitohistory : Night, Seek, have a nice one …or not. your choice

  • AdLib : And, when thinking about buying plug in electric, calculate how much you will be saving on gas vs. electricity. Depending on how much you drive, that could mean one or more hundreds a month.

  • bitohistory : k’es, not for me. But remember I was in the building trades and had plumber friends.

  • Blues Tiger : Take care Seek

  • Blues Tiger : Bito these are qualifing here as Street legal… In smaller towns lots of people are driving them for errands.. «link»

  • kesmarn : Good night, Seek. Hope the upcoming week is a good one.

  • AdLib : Seeya Seek!!!

  • SeeknDestroy : Sorry folks, life calls…Peace!.. :-)

  • AdLib : There’s a $7500 fed tax credit and in CA there’s a $5k credit, so the S model would have a price tag more around $38k. Not bad at all! And as I say, they will have a cheaper model out too.

  • kesmarn : b’ito, was it hard to connect your solar WH to your existing system?

  • bitohistory : Telsa, How much$$$

  • kesmarn : That Wheego is totally sweet, but even at $33,000 a bit much for me to handle, payment wise. Maybe with BIG gov’t assistance.

  • bitohistory : Like I said BT, Gem cars are made in the US and are street legal

  • AdLib : They are coming out with a lower priced model too!

  • Blues Tiger : Telsa’s are cool but expensive

  • AdLib : The Model S Tesla is about $50k but you would get fed and in some states, state tax credits to bring that down. 160 – 300 mile range. 0 – 60 in 5.6 seconds.

  • Blues Tiger : A couple of my neighbors have this one KES «link»

  • bitohistory : AdLib, I have built one (solar WH) and I dont know ho0w one could possibly put thousands into one!! Gold piping! Titanium fittings!

  • kesmarn : Where is the Tesla made, again?

  • AdLib : My favorite plug in electric so far is the Tesla. Check them out here: «link»

  • kesmarn : BT, now you’re talkin’…a faster one would be doable. I’ve seen a number of Smart cars here. They’re really cute. And most of the drivers were still alive.

  • Blues Tiger : BIto it is Chinese made… But We should be making lots of these types here in the states and making them affordable

  • Blues Tiger : Not all the electric sold here are that slow Kes… I am looking for some of the other popular ones…

  • bitohistory : BT looks like a made in the USA Gem car. And a Gem is street legal.

  • kesmarn : BT, the CoCo car is adorable but you would be killed nearly instantly in Ohio in a car that goes 25 mph — even in town. People are that aggressive.

  • AdLib : Just checked a few sites and converting a water heater to solar could cost thousands. That’s not a reason not to do it but the question would be, if the government was to take action to back at least one effort, which would be the best item to back? Solar water heaters would be a one step change that would be logistically easier and cheaper than most other paths.

  • bitohistory : Night, HITO. sleep well.

  • kesmarn : At the risk of sounding like an idiot, b’ito, do they tell me how to hook it up to my existing plumbing?

  • Blues Tiger : Nite HITO

  • kesmarn : Good night, HITO!

  • bitohistory : k’es, go to the googles, they sell already built one cheaper than an electric car. What you save there\, you can buy your Volt/Telsa

  • AdLib : Night HITO!

  • HITO : Good night kids. Be well.

  • Blues Tiger : Bito, Ya’ll check out this link, in Oklahoma you can own one of these for less than 1000 bucks… You can’t drive on Hiways but they are street legal… «link»

  • AdLib : bito – I think that would be a fantastic campaign, to go for water heaters first!

  • SeeknDestroy : The consumer lifestyle has made most Americans lazy, bito.

  • kesmarn : b’ito, is it something that a tech-impaired, non-handy person like me (who is also blonde, to make it worse) can do? The water heater, I mean?

  • AdLib : Kes – So true about unintentional commuters. But if the Fed Gov’t approached this like the Space Race, dedicated resources away from Afghanistan and Iraq and to subsidizing a Bloom Box, solar panels for your home and the lease or purchase of a plugin electric car, you would have zero carbon footprint even when you commjute.

  • bitohistory : Why do people always want to start out doing something expensive? Build a solar Hot Water heater for $100-$200. If 80% of homes had one, cutting 1/3 of their electric bill , how much oil/coal would that save? How many electric cars(@$40,000) would it take to save that much?

  • kesmarn : I’m hoping they get more affordable soon, BT!

  • Blues Tiger : I understand kes, but 20 miles is easily attainable with the right electric vehicles

  • kesmarn : BT, I think many of us are unintentional commuters. We live near work, but then the work evaporates and we’re driving 20 miles to the job that is available.

  • SeeknDestroy : Thanks Ad Lib, and BT!

  • Blues Tiger : 60 minutes has a great piece on Bloom Boxes Seek

  • AdLib : Here’s a cool Q & A with the CEO of Bloom Energy by Newsweek: «link»

  • SeeknDestroy : I saw something about bloom boxes on Boing Boing. I should go there more.

  • Blues Tiger : I think she called a Red Sox Hero a Yankee too

  • HITO : How tragic is life that the choices we have may not suit the feasibility of our lives, thereby limiting those choices into oblivion? That’s what makes me nuts.

  • Blues Tiger : We will have to restructure our lives from “commuting” mentality…

  • SeeknDestroy : Dis the Red Sox? In Mass? Political poison! Did she fling dog shit at Red Auerbach?

  • AdLib : May I again resemble a parrot on this? Bloom boxes, solar panels, electric plugin cars, each family could be self-sustaining and independent on clean energy!

  • kesmarn : I would love to buy a hybrid or electric car but really just can’t afford it now. Also would love to take the bus to work…if one only ran out here in the boonies.

  • AdLib : Martha Coakley dissed the Red Sox and Fenway Park! Refused to shake hands with people! She was an idiot elitist Dems, we’ve got them too.

  • bitohistory : Everyone build a solar ho9t water heater! save 1/3 of your electric bill.

  • Blues Tiger : I think the American people are just waiting for something… We really want to do something, something major we can all be a part of… Remember after 9/11 when Bush told us to go shopping? We are tired of being sent shopping, we want to get off oil , give us a chance, make it possible, watch and see how fast it happens… Just quit having us go sgopping when we could be doing so much more

  • kesmarn : Seek, I was trying to remember her name! That’s how memorable she was!

  • AdLib : HITO – Honestly, I don’t think Obama said anything new or striking. Jon Stewart did an amazing piece, showing speeches from presidents going back to Nixon where all insisted that we must quickly get to energy independence and alternate fuels. And as we all know now, that has never taken hold.

  • SeeknDestroy : I look forward to a hard working DEM against Brown. Coakley mailed it in.(Name?)

  • HITO : BT, oh I don’t feel that way about O playing election year politics. I consider how much a mortal man can do or orchestrate…an d I feel very sympathetic to his situation.

  • kesmarn : I haven’t been in New England for so long, b’ito…hard to gauge the mood there.

  • bitohistory : Maybe in the primary, k’es, but not in the general.

  • HITO : BT, the shoe king, HELLO!

  • HITO : Adlib, what I found eloquent that evening was the inference that WE need to change our energy sources. He quietly suggested he will do what he can, but it’s up to US to make the necessary changes. There was whining from both sides thereafter. That pisses me off.

  • Blues Tiger : Hello Seek

  • AdLib : bito – A bagger could run against Brown, I think that would be a wash, losing Bagger support but increasing is mainstream cred. But a liberal Dem would take all the air out of the room. Brown is a one termer as long as MA Dems put up a decent candidate.

  • Blues Tiger : HITO I feel the President is playing election year politics and his speech is reflecting that they just don’t want to rock the boat too much

  • bitohistory : Hey BT, Not highway BT

  • Blues Tiger : Hey AdLib

  • kesmarn : If a baggerr ran against Brown, b’ito, do you think he/she would have a good chance?

  • Blues Tiger : Hi Bito!!!

  • AdLib : Hey BT!!!

  • AdLib : Hito – I think Dems can be honest about Obama. I think the press conference was universally seen as weak and unfocused. It was. Obama is a smart man though, when his ill conceived hands off approach to HCR legislation caused its near demise, he adapted and became more aggressive. This is why criticism is a good thing, those who attack Dems for legit criticism of Obama are missing the boat. However, UI am one of those who condemn the whiners who can only complain that Obama hasn’t been perfect and given them everything they want.

  • SeeknDestroy : Hey BT!

  • bitohistory : Hwy BT!

  • kesmarn : We’re talking about the current crop of GOP candidates and their chances for success, BT.

  • bitohistory : Because Brown isn’t extreme, will a bagger run against him?

  • Blues Tiger : Helloooooooo Kes

  • kesmarn : HITO, I worked the evening he gave the speech. Only saw bits of it later. He did/does look weary.

  • kesmarn : Hey, BT!

  • Blues Tiger : helloooooooooooo ooo

  • AdLib : Delay was obviously most comfortable around others with the same qualities as he…I just wonder if he’s cautious about stepping into motels for fear that he may check in but never check out?

  • kesmarn : AdLib, that’s one thing that worried me–that Brown is not really awful or extreme. Made me wonder if the GOP might not think they can pin their hopes on him. Hope you’re right on the prediction that a strong lib can win in MA.

  • SeeknDestroy : Thanks for the polls,Ad Lib…I haven’t seem many yet because it’s real early.

  • HITO : Can we speak about how horrible Obama’s speech was received by dems, and in my own perception how tired he looked?

  • AdLib : I think Scott Brown won’t last, not because he’s awful or extreme but a true and strong liberal in MA who’s somewhat competent will bring Dems out and home.

  • kesmarn : HAHAHA! How can one cockroach do that to another?

  • HITO : Delay’s former cred was as an exterminator…. fitting, no?

  • kesmarn : Angle has been saying some stunningly dumb stuff. They all have. This is so helpful.

  • kesmarn : Is Delay an exterminator? That’s too funny. After Scott Brown does Dancing with the Stars, it’s over then, ya think?

  • SeeknDestroy : The more Angle talks…..BOOM!

  • AdLib : If you see the polls below, Reid is ahead by 6% in one and down by 3% in the other, within the margin of error. And this is as strong as Angle will be. I think Reid pulls this out BECAUSE of the Tea Party being for extremists only.

  • SeeknDestroy : Thingy?

  • bitohistory : No problem,Seek, Its just a…..

  • SeeknDestroy : In a retirement state like NV? no way.

  • HITO : Kes, a future in insurance sales, or perhaps extermination like Delay.

  • AdLib : LVRJ/Mason-Dixon 6/1 – 6/3 625 LV 44 41 Angle +3 R2000/Daily Kos (D)* 5/31 – 6/2 600 LV 37 43 Reid +6

  • AdLib : Wait, don’t pay attention to the Rasmussen poll, it is always wrong and slanted to Repubs. Here are two other polls on NV from RCP:

  • SeeknDestroy : For Now, the GOP changed her website, tried to clean up her image….her rhetoric will kill her off….get rid of SS?

  • kesmarn : What about Scott Brown? Do you think he has a future?

  • HITO : Seek, gaining the son is almost biblical. Seems that way. The old leaving and the younger one taking it on…that’s cred.

  • SeeknDestroy : My Bad Bito, I hope you are doing well. I had no idea.

  • kesmarn : Oh Lord…Reid is trailing Angle? That’s sad!

  • HITO : Don’t hate me.

  • HITO : OK, I’m going to state it…I like Boxer more than Pelosi…always have.

  • SeeknDestroy : Excellent.Reid is still behind Angle last I checked….for now anyway….Reid’ s son is running for Governor

  • kesmarn : Too funny, b’ito!! You’re too brilliant to ever be able to plead “chemo brain” though!

  • HITO : You won’t offend me. Shit, come on? What’s the thingy mean? Remember, I’ve been living in a cave for 12 years.

  • bitohistory : After chemo– Thingy is a pretty common word. We use it a lot at the cancer …thingy.

  • AdLib : Seek – Brown and Boxer are ahead by meaningful percentages, more than the margin of error.

  • kesmarn : I’m trying to grasp the mental image of 10 million going into any thingy!

  • AdLib : Carly is such a born loser. Oddly, Boxer was vulnerable despite all the great work she’s done for Progressives, indies and CA. But Carly is a gift, she has damaged her image repeatedly, just as she damaged HP.

  • SeeknDestroy : How is the polling going in CA, Ad Lib?

  • HITO : OT, sorry. Do I have a thingy that you guys are talking about? LOL

  • AdLib : Seek – No, Whitman isn’t crazy. She’s just a greed and power-driven billionaire who wants more for herself and all of the “upper class”. She would devastate CA, no doubt about it…and financially, we’re in a tough enough spot as it is.

  • kesmarn : LOL! “Her thingy” I love that, b’ito!

  • SeeknDestroy : Her thingy?LOL

  • HITO : Bito, from your keyboard to God’s ears…if she has any. That asshat needs to go away…far away.

  • bitohistory : Didn’t Whitman just drop another 10M into her thingy?

  • kesmarn : And then we have the LOVELY Carly Fiorina…Queen of the Sophomore class and hair critic extraordinaire!

  • HITO : Adlib, it’s about the new shiny thing to look at and vote for. But the scary part is when it was Palin that was one thing that should have run it’s course into the ground. These new candidates from hell are not seemingly received in the same way. They’re getting press, they’re getting headlines, they may become a part of the structure.

  • SeeknDestroy : Is Whitman as crazy as Angle? There are 81 million reasons to ask.

  • bitohistory : HITO, Paul is seriously dropping in the polls. The more he talks, the more he drops , same with aqngle.

  • kesmarn : bito, yes, getting out the vote. This whole Al Greene thing…that was partly due to Dem apathy!

  • AdLib : I think some people are manipulated by the GOP running women who spout the same BS but most aren’t. Will Dems in CA vote for Meg Whitman over Brown because she’s a woman…even though her plans are to devastate our state and give corporations more power and control?

  • bitohistory : Bah Jinx, I say Bah!!! the chore for the Dems is GOTV!!! The polling shows them behind on that job.

  • HITO : Kes, “hard women”…I know what that used to refer to….LOL.

  • kesmarn : HITO — and the hilarious thing is, the women the Reps run are anything but the type to “soften” anything. These are some hard women, lemme tell ya!

  • HITO : I think many loved Ron Paul and are now enamored with AynRandPaul. Not sure that those lovers are thinking through their decisions.

  • SeeknDestroy : The fact that most of the gOP are bought and paid for seems right up their alley

  • kesmarn : My son owns a gun — legally. He says: too many wackos out there!

  • kesmarn : Do you think Barton’s apology to BP will wake up some on the right to the fact that the corps totally owns a lot of these guys?

  • SeeknDestroy : I used to have Guns, after getting back to work,I will again..to protect myself from the right wing

  • AdLib : Jinx bito!

  • HITO : I have a problem with the GOP’s strategy of running women in an attempt to garner favor. The men are proven assholes, like Barton, so they will run women to soften the blow to their tarnished image.

  • AdLib : Looking at what happened in the primaries, where nearly all incumbents won, I don’t think it will be an unusual off year gain for Repubs. AND, Tea party candidates like Rand Paul and Sharron Angle are turning people away, back to Dems.

  • bitohistory : AdLib< i think the Dems may be getting some ammo, thanks to the Goopers, and the country won’t go rightie.

  • kesmarn : Yes. These elements — all pulled together — of religious extremism, gun-toting mythology and racism…that’s a powerful combo.

  • AdLib : Choicelady has great insight to some of the beneath the surface stuff the Evangelical Christians in the vein of The Family are working at daily, it’s scary and they have many powerful politicians and wealthy people aligned with them.

  • kesmarn : b’ito…God forbid on the 39 seats going right. But — to my amazement — I’m hearing more Tea Party rhetoric than I’d like to around here.

  • SeeknDestroy : She’s a real piece of shit, that one, Kes

  • SeeknDestroy : Sweet Home Alabama d running through my mind….Love LS

  • kesmarn : Seek, she actually said something like: “the first thing we need to do is take out Harry Reid.” These folks are spring-loaded. Ready, fire, aim.

  • HITO : What my mom hated living down there was the isolation for being Catholics. And for being told to get a maid. My mom was so not a snotty botty to have such a thing, but she was told she should have “help” to blend in better. Yikes, made her want run for her life. And we did.

  • bitohistory : Cook, the election pundit, says out of 435 house seats only 40 are up for grabs. Will 39 go right?

  • AdLib : Kes – Agree, the MSM wants more conflict for more ratings. But the question is, will the proliferation of old style prejudice and hate become more popular or more offensive?

  • SeeknDestroy : I can’t stand that whole “we love America, liberal hate it”. The fact is, most of the neocons and tea-tarty idiots seem like they wish to overthrow our country..ala 2nd amendment “remedies” couch cough(Sharon Angle)

  • kesmarn : choicelady has seen some of this in action in the military where there’s very little choice but to be a fundie Christian good ole boy. Anything else will bring you a world of pain.

  • kesmarn : Yes. It’s a tough battle because — unlike 1860 — the neo-confederates are now also the super-patriots. And the angle they push is that if you’re not “fer ’em,” you’re a traitor.

  • AdLib : It’s hard to have perspective in the here and now but this convergence of the archaic thinking of too much of the south and corporate domination seems to be pushing our democracy into a corner. The question is, will it fight its way out or be intimidated in resignation?

  • kesmarn : AdLib, I agree..more urban tends to be more lib. To get to your question: I think the media are going to exploit the neo-confederate impulses– some of them — because it is such good news to the corporations.

  • AdLib : Kes – The stats bear out that bigger cities, urban areas trend more liberal. I think it’s because they attract a wider variety of people and you have to learn to get along as well as learn that people are good or bad based on who they are, not where their family came from.

  • kesmarn : Gosh, HITO, can’t recall now. I’ll post if I think of it.

  • kesmarn : AdLib, I had a similar feeling when I visited in S. Car. The people were very “sweet” but many of the women had a “Stepford” quality that creeped me out. And I think I struck them as a Yankee “liberated” type that made ’em uncomfortable.

  • AdLib : So, two questions to everyone. First, will this rebirth of the worst aspects of the South pull more folks down into the gutter of hatred or turn people off from them? Second, is this a death gasp or a revitalization?

  • HITO : Kens, Moravia is in what county?

  • kesmarn : HITO,I have a good friend in Moravia.

  • HITO : Seek, can you tell me how we can do this? Repost: : Ignore the fact that they(right wing) are horrendous hypocrites themselves

  • AdLib : Without offending any of our Southern friends, I could never live in the more conservative areas there, it would be like being forced to breathe more shallow than you’re capable of.

  • kesmarn : Agree, b’ito. My rep is wonderful. True blue! And we have Sherrod Brown. Voinovich –meh — he’s not the worst of the worst, but also doesn’t stand up to his fellow R’s often enough.

  • HITO : Sorry, Max interruption. Kes, I lived in NYC, Rockaway, Forest Hills until 22 years ago when I moved north about 110 miles to the Hudson Valley. Farm land. Best thing I ever did. You can’t have kids in NYC, well you can, but it’s dreadful.

  • AdLib : Hito – Absolutely, NY is a sane place for open minded people to live too. Really like NY a lot.

  • bitohistory : K’es I don’t know if there is any one state, just parts of many states.

  • AdLib : Kes – As a native in Cali, I can say that, aside from Orange County, it’s a pretty comfortable place to live your life, liberal or conservative. When libs are in control, they are very accepting of Repubs but the reverse isn’t true. Seeiong Repubs in a less harmful minority does make me feel less reactive to them.

  • kesmarn : HITO are you in the big city or the “other” NY? You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to!

  • SeeknDestroy : Ignore the fact that they(right wing) are horrendous hypocrites themselves

  • kesmarn : Yeah, AdLib and then there the whole same-sex thing. Gosh–so many ways to offend the righteous right!

  • HITO : I’m not sure what it would take for me to ever leave NY.

  • AdLib : Because of my experience in LA, I was not surprised by the renewed blaze of racism that Obama’s election inspired.

  • SeeknDestroy : Hi my HITO….?

  • SeeknDestroy : How about that Alvin Greene?…..LOL. ….

  • HITO : Hi Seek. Good to see you, as always, hon.

  • kesmarn : Where d’you think would be the best state for a lib to have a quality lifestyle?

  • AdLib : Kes – It’s so offensive to me, the idea that in this day and age people can have their lives ruined for not having a relationship solely with people of their own skin color.

  • AdLib : bito – I learned that it my adventures, an open minded Dem in LA can still be “Republican” on many issues progressives take for granted elsewhere.

  • HITO : Kes, I’m happy to report while she has physically expressed disdain for her crazy lib mom who dragged her to Obama functions over the years and knows my commitment to keep the real word out there….well she is a hot headed lib of her own right…from what her teachers tell me. She follows the constitution better than I ever would. She’s ambidextrous but I tried to persuade her to never be an attorney.

  • kesmarn : It’s amazing how people feel that their judgement about other folks’ private lives can determine what happens with a person’s professional career!

  • AdLib : Google crawls the site, Yahoo gallops and Bing bings.

  • bitohistory : AdLib , when I moved south, the liberalDems down there were like Rs of the north

  • AdLib : I had an acquaintance who had a bi-racial relationship in LA, this person was involved in lobbying legislators and if they had let it become public knowledge that they were together, they would be shunned by a majority and lose their careers.

  • kesmarn : HITO, your daughter will probably be a lot happier in a blue state, for sure.

  • HITO : Adlib, is google crawling us or twitter, or perhaps Arianna is crawling up our ass?

  • SeeknDestroy : LOL..Ad Lib

  • kesmarn : b’ito, I don’t know if anyone’s tummy is ever ready for peppermint schnapps!

  • bitohistory : K’es’ Not sure if my tummy is ready for that.

  • AdLib : I broke Google’s kneecaps the last time they were here, all it can do now is crawl.

  • HITO : Kes, if you’re going to have a bi-racial relationship you need to stay in the BLUE states. I just told that to my daughter who is in love with a first generation Asian-Indian. He stayed with us for four days recently. She can never live in the south with him. It won’t work.

  • SeeknDestroy : Google is crawling the site?

  • AdLib : One certainly gets spoiled, growing up as part of the majority in a more liberal state like CA, it is a rude awakening to spend extended time in a conservative state and see the unspoken oppression that pervades.

  • kesmarn : Hey Seek! You’re right. No beer after the Colgate toothpaste.

  • kesmarn : b’ito, maybe pepperment schnapps??? :lol:

  • SeeknDestroy : Howdy everyone!(no, I’m not a cowboy, though I walk like one sometimes)

  • kesmarn : I think KQ has mentioned the difficulty of living in Georgia in an inter-racial marriage.

  • bitohistory : Beer tastes bad after 2+ months

  • AdLib : Hey Seek!

  • AdLib : I’ve mentioned before, I’ve spent a lot of time in Louisiana in the last several years, there are some parts of the state where progressives live in quiet desperation.

  • kesmarn : HITO, had a friend who moved to S. Carolina from the North. Thought she would lose her mind!

  • HITO : Kes, your perception of the GOP going “southern” sentimentality on the nation is really terrifying. And an concept that is more relevant than I’d care to admit.

  • SeeknDestroy : Beer tastes bad after brushing your teeth too. Hello all

  • bitohistory : k’es ‘YES!!Couldn’t believe it

  • kesmarn : About 15 years after I stopped smoking, I craved a cigarette and had one. Horrible!

  • AdLib : Beer only tastes awful if consumed after eating chocolate.

  • HITO : Kes, I lived in Aiken, South Carolina for 2 years as a child. My NYC mom couldn’t wait to get the hell out of there. She spoke about how “weird” it was for years,.

  • bitohistory : Missed that. Hello all

  • kesmarn : b’ito, did the beer taste awful after not having one for so long?

  • AdLib : Now, about those cooklies…

  • HITO : Hi Bito. Good to see you.

  • AdLib : There you are bito!

  • bitohistory : speaking of beer, I had one last night. Why did I ever start drinking?

  • AdLib : Kes – Just as people in CA can accept the awful people that predominate portions of our state, progressively minded folks in the South know that they’re surrounded by intolerant and ignorant ideologues.

  • kesmarn : I don’t see a sort of neo-Confederacy arising that has its locus in the South, but more the “Southernizatio n” of the American culture…in negative ways.

  • AdLib : I don’t see the South rising again but I do see a worrying “permission” being given through them and their Tea Partiers for unrestrained hatred and suspicion…not to mention racism and prejudice.

  • kesmarn : A bit of an “aw shucks” moment here, but it is a subject that I find interesting.

  • kesmarn : Thanks so much, HITO. I hope it wasn’t offensive to the good liberal folks in the South, but I think there are elements of that culture that deserve a second look.

  • AdLib : Second that Hito. Kes, that was a bit of a revelation for me, it is actually what I wanted (and want) to make our first topic tonight.

  • kesmarn : What does Patsy call it? Typagra?

  • HITO : Kes, I just read your southern analogy, loved it even though it chilled me to the bone.

  • AdLib : And you wonder how I can type so fast…

  • kesmarn : Help yourself, friends!

  • AdLib : Yep, I love a beer chaser with my meth.

  • HITO : Me, I’m having a dewars and soda with a twist.

  • HITO : Oh, Coronas! I remember those.

  • AdLib : Can you toss one of those Corona’s this way?

  • kesmarn : LOL! Well, bito does need to gain some weight back, so I guess the cookies are his. I’m near the cooler with the Coronas on ice.

  • HITO : I have nothing but tough, Kes. God gives to those that handle it…I love her optimism!

  • AdLib : It’s been cold and rainy in Paris actually, a friend of mine just flew out from there.

  • HITO : Good for Patsy! She deserves a weekend in Paris. Oui!

  • kesmarn : HITO — tough week?

  • AdLib : Great to see you here, HITO. Bito is here too somewhere. Bito? Hey, all the cookies are gone…bito!

  • kesmarn : Hey, AdLib and b’ito! Patsy had the nerve to prefer a night on the town to Vox Pop! (Just kiddin’, Patsy)

  • HITO : Hey Adlib and Kes. Good to see, been waiting all week (in hell) to be here. :-)

  • AdLib : Patsy did leave cookies for everyone though!

  • AdLib : Hey Kes, Hey HITO! Welcome!

  • HITO : Oh, Patsy won’t be here? Damn! :-(

  • kesmarn : Hey, HITO!

  • HITO : Hi kids, I’m stumbling in. Couldn’t find my way!

  • kesmarn : Hi, friends! A little late. More weather here and we had to unplug the computers for a while…whatta spring!

  • AdLib : How about those Lakers? Did you see the game?

  • AdLib : That’s good news! Man, a lot of folks were holding their breaths here for that last month.

  • bitohistory : Little better everyday. Can’t ask for more.

  • AdLib : How are you doing, bito?

  • AdLib : Hey! Friday nights in the summer, last week folks came a bit late but we had a nice sized group.

  • bitohistory : BTW yourself, where is everyone. bito

  • AdLib : BTW, please say hi when you arrive so we know you’re here!

  • AdLib : We’ll miss you, have a great evening!

  • PatsyT : I will have to miss you all tonight. Have fun tonight!

  • AdLib : Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events, begins shortly at 7:00 pm PDT. Hope to see you then!

Categories: Vox Populi Archives

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

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