Having been an avid consumer of progressive media for more than 10 years, I’ve been noticing my own growing disinterest in the format. I’ve become less and less enthusiastic about looking at the coverage in progressive sources, even disenchanted by some of the changes that have occurred during what is ostensibly the format’s most successful run to date.

Being a devotee — someone who even spends money to support progressive programming and networks — I had to think about what might be causing my recent disinterest. I’m guessing that if I feel this way, other people do, too. After some thought, I’ve come to the conclusion that the problem may lie in the format itself, which has been borrowing heavily from the conservative format. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other.

Radio

Peter B. Collins
Peter Werbe
White Rose Society
Radio Power
Head On Radio Network
Free Speech Radio News

If you haven’t heard of these people or organizations, blame Air America Radio (AAR). Just before AAR took to the airwaves and claimed progressive radio as its providence, there were already some impressive radio broadcasters on the progressive side of the spectrum, quietly chipping away at corporate media. They weren’t flashy and they didn’t get much publicity, but their broadcasts were full of facts, esoterica, and reportage worthy of the big guns of journalism. Their guests included people like Greg Palast, Brad Friedman, David Sarota, and Harry Shearer. They talked the full spectrum of progressive thought, tugged back and forth without a lot of rancor — and made me feel a lot smarter for having listened to them. The angry broadcasters were on Pacifica, so if I wanted invective and hyperbole, that’s where I went. But for the cold hard facts, I tuned into the White Rose Society.

AAR came on the scene with a brazen, funny, no-holds-barred style and proclaimed itself The Progressive Format. The splashy entrance of AAR raised the hopes of a lot of progressive news addicts, myself included, and for a while, the network delivered exactly what it promised. At the same time, it nudged progressive radio into a new direction, which, ultimately, has proved to be a limiting rather than an expanding influence on the format as a whole.

AAR launched with Al Franken’s show, “The O’Franken Factor,” provocatively named deliberately to rile Bill O’Reilly of the O’Reilly Factor. This maneuver immediately established AAR as an adversarial counterpart to conservative media — as opposed to the advocacy role that progressive media had been playing for so many years. Most of AAR programming was devoted to bashing the GOP for getting it wrong rather than talking about what the country should be doing to get things right. Granted, the GOP was doing a lot wrong, and the mainstream media was blithely complicit in many of their destructive activities, but the AAR format saddled progressive radio with the same anger and outrage that plagued conservative talk.

And the format has not been able to shake the rancor, even as politics turns in a new direction. As an example, most of progressive air time during the health care debate was taken up with
(1) predicting that health care would never happen
(2) complaining that the public option had been removed from the bill
(3) rejoicing that the public option hadn’t been removed from the bill
(4) repeating and ridiculing right wing talking points
(5) freaking out over the Tea Party

Now, maybe that kind of programming was good for ratings, but it was terrible for the progressive community. There was practically no advocacy for the health reform policies. Few progressive broadcasters explained the provisions in the House or Senate bill, how they would help people, what problems they would solve, what problems they would not solve, whose votes we needed, where we were in the process, or what progressives could do to help the bill get passed. Worst of all, the vitriol aimed at the president — repetitive memes like “coward,” “gutless,” “betrayed,” “sold us out,” “back room deals” — only served to demoralize much of the progressive community, leaving a lot of people angry, uninformed, and ready to boycott the 2010 midterms.

In all fairness, AAR produced some important progressive stars — Al Franken and Rachel Maddow among them — and gave others like Randi Rhodes and Thom Harmann a more solid footing in national media. It also paved the way for broadcasters like Stephanie Miller and Ed Schultz. But the advocacy role of progressive radio, which dominated before the advent of AAR, all but disappeared. If anything, the new format turned progressive radio into a format that only discusses what’s wrong. And this creates a troubling dilemma for those of us who like to support progressive media AND our democratic legislative process.

News Aggregators

AlterNet
BuzzFlash
Common Dreams
Consortium News
Counterpunch
Daily Kos
Democratic Underground
Liberal Oasis
OpEdNews
Raw Story
TomDispatch
TomPaine.com
Truthout
Wayne Madsen Report

The same unfortunate change of focus plagued online progressive news aggregators with the appearance of the Huffington Post (HP). HP has influenced many of the progressive news aggregators in the same way that AAR changed the focus of most progressive on-air broadcasters. Sites like Raw Story were originally designed to help the progressive community find stories that advanced progressive advocacy. Their staffs would comb through mainstream media sources such as the Times, the Post, USA Today, Vanity Fair, Rolling Stone, Newsweek, Harpers — any mainstream, professional news publication — for stories that were not being highlighted by television, or had been buried on back pages despite their importance. Most aggregators regularly turned up stories that were too important for legitimate, major papers to omit, but too anti-Bush or anti-war to promote.

When HP came along, it seemed to adhere to this same mission at first, and there was a brief golden age when HP seemed to cover everything from the other aggregator sites, combined.. But as the site grew in popularity — in large part because of superior layout and a dynamic comment section — its focus changed from digging out the hard-to-find stories to highlighting the most sensationalist stories. When that happened, the landscape of progressive sites began to change, as HP emerged as the leader in the niche and other sites tried to keep up.

I am as guilty as anyone of replacing my eclectic menu of diverse progressive sites with a steady diet of HP. The first thing I used to do in the morning was turn on Amy Goodman and read Raw Story, Buzz Flash, Truthout, Common Dreams, Counterpunch, and Op Ed News. (Those were my personal favorites.) Then HP and its comment section became my primary online political interface. Now, after five years of the Huffington Post on the scene, I find I’m reading less of everything. Less of the classic progressive sites and almost nothing of HP. I’ve returned to the New York Times and the Washington Post for news. And their incomplete and often agenda-driven reporting on Iraq was the reason I sought out progressive aggregators in the first place.

But the truth is, HP’s success tainted the sites I used to frequent. AlterNet became more opinion than information. Common Dreams — a site that was once nothing short of inspirational in it’s advocacy-oriented articles — took on the role of the complainer’s haven. Raw Story took the sensationalist cue and began to lead with stories of little informational value but great emotional impact. Buzz Flash redesigned it’s folksy format to look more “impressive” and now is very difficult to read, purely from a visual standpoint. Raw Story also attempted a redesign to make itself more flashy and mainstream. It’s readers complained so fervently, the site actually discarded its new look and returned to the original layout.

And as if by some cosmic design failure, at the same time that the diversity of progressive aggregator voices seemed to be contracting, two standard bearers of rigorous reporting — AP and The Wall Street Journal — were slowly morphing into imitations of the New York Post, thanks to new ownership and/or new management. At the very time the news landscape should have had all the elements necessary for better information than ever, our information seemed to be getting worse.

I like to think the negative trend among progressive news aggregators is reversing as HP loses some of its luster. I’m once again finding lofty content on Common Dreams. Raw Story has recently dug out several good stories that the rest of the media, including HP, missed or ignored. Truthout is pulling good reporting from lesser known sources. Aggregators seem to be going back to square one. Hopefully their audiences will support them in making this decision.

Television

Democracy Now
Link TV
Current TV

Until very recently, progressive television was the province of the sedate, the brainy, the offbeat, and the esoteric. It was also a bastion of low-key production values in a populist framework. The standout program was Goodman’s Democracy Now, which continues to maintain a laudable standard of staying out of the adversarial framework by concentrating on issues that any citizen should know and care about. Programming such as Link TV emphasizes populist and local themes, and is noticeably “progressive” only in that it is culturally diverse. Those qualities were the mark of progressive television programming until the advent of MSNBC’s left-leaning prime time lineup.

Perhaps the nature of television — or the cost structure of television production — has prevented the firebrand commercial format from impacting other progressive programs in this medium. For the most part, corporate television’s impact on progressive broadcasting has been to create a framework for internet programming. Online shows like The Young Turks have latched onto the power of visual transmission, and are delivering firebrand-style progressive programming on a shoestring. And a number of progressive radio programs have outfitted themselves with “cams” in order to mimic the impact of tv — a trend that probalby started with Don Imus.

For the most part, progressive programming on commercial networks is as much about personality as it is about issues. Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann, and even Rachel Maddow, trade on their charisma as much as their content. They tend to rely on the adversarial format because Nielsen ratings — just like Arbitron and internet site clicks — incentivize that kind of script. Charisma and celebrity thrive in an adversarial framework. No one could accuse Amy Goodman of playing to the cult of personality. But Amy Goodman is unlikely to find herself on a commercial network any time in the future.

Public Broadcasting

Morning Edition
All Things Considered
Fresh Air
Frontline
Washington Week
Bill Moyers

For many years, conservative talkers and pundits have accused public broadcasting of pandering to the left. In reality, public broadcasting depends heavily on corporate sponsorship, and this is often reflected in the point of view of their reporting. Yet, many progressives listen to NPR or watch PBS thinking that their programming has a liberal slant. The calm and sober tone gives public programming a veneer of objectivity that many critical thinkers like, and because of that, tend to patronize without questioning content.

The loyalty that so many liberal media consumers show public radio and television suggests that these media consumers are not looking for adversarial broadcasting. They are looking for information, entertainment, and, in my opinion, reassurance. These are listeners who are not looking for a side to be on. They are not looking for someone to blame or a repository for their anger. They are looking for the comfort of dialog, logic, and evidence — these are the interface tools of most politically engaged people. Public broadcasting provides that framework.

It does not, however, provide the advocacy that is so important to the progressive movement.

A New Format

It would seem progressive media has missed a tremendous opportunity by taking up the adversarial format. Even though individual programs have enjoyed great success and have succeeded to a large extent in countering much of the vitriol and misinformation coming from corporate-funded conservative talk radio, they have not improved the media landscape. If anything, the “progressive format” has overshadowed those few outlets that dig for unreported stories, while presenting itself as one of those very outlets. It has, to a large extent, replaced advocacy with sensationalism and front page hysteria. It has made progressive media bigger and shinier — but not better.

I would like to think we will see the advent of yet another format geared to the progressive community, one that emphasizes advocacy. The advantage to this format is that it is not angry and it doesn’t need to blame, meaning that it can attract NPR audiences that avoid adversarial formats. It focuses on issues and how to solve problems. It can keep an audience energized by bringing to light situations that may be ignored by the mainstream media. And it can give audiences a sense of purpose. There is certainly room for anger when it comes to our social ills, but our reaction should not stop there. Progressive media was headed in that direction before it was co-opted by a few big guns that used conservative media as their blue print. Progressives are about progress, making changes, getting things done. The conservative format is not optimal for that kind of engagement.

The best journalistic infrastructure is still found at the larger news agencies, like the Times and the Post. If a key story is going to be broken, it will likely be broken at one of the big shops. And it will be highlighted or buried there. Progressive news aggregators serve an essential purpose in making sure we know the non-corporate storyline. I’d like to see progressive media even stronger in that role, combined with a broadcast format that keeps people involved as well as informed. That will require a shift in framework and media style. I hope someone, somewhere, is working on this approach.

A Post Script on Subscriber-funded Enterprises

The Real News
C-SPAN
Pacifica
Free Speech TV

I’d like to close with brief praise for subscriber-based media. These are the networks that do true public service. They are usually struggling, devoid of flash, and sometimes serious to a fault. But they never fail to deliver more depth than their commercial or corporate-sponsored counterparts. The emphasis from sponsored news is usually neither right nor left. It is reporting, discussion, and analysis.

The Real News is the latest addition to the roster of viewer/listener sponsored reporting. Its goal is to develop an international base with enough paying subscribers to support the very expensive enterprise of investigative reporting. They have been on the air for a few years now, and their audience numbers in the millions. They are still transmitting via internet, but hope to find a location on television. If their growth continues, they could become a force in changing our journalistic landscape.

Yesterday, I wrote about Passover basics. I mentioned that there were three ways of discussing traditions and texts: The face-value way, the story behind the face value and the secret or hidden meanings. Today, I will talk about the story behind the ritual and about the Seder—the festival meal which is at the centerpiece of the holiday.

The Seder (which means “order”) is the ritual we perform on Passover. Pretty much everything about the Passover Seder is symbolic in nature. The food that is blessed and eaten is especially symbolic. Here is a breakdown of what each food represents. This information is written in the Passover booklet, the Haggadah, which is read prior to the Passover meal.

Seder Plate

The special plate we use for the ritual contains the symbolic food we eat during the Seder:

The Matzah- When the Jews were freed from slavery, they left in a rush and their bread did not have time to rise.

Bitter vegetable- The bitter vegetable, such as parsley is dipped in salt water to represent the hardship and tears that the Jews suffered as slaves in Egypt

Haroseth- The ingredients of Haroseth vary according to sect of Jews, but it mainly consists of a mixture of apples, cinnamon, nuts and raisins, usually mashed. This represents the mixture that slaves used to build the buildings in Egypt

Shank bone- the shank bone represents the sacrificial lamb which was offered to God as Passover sacrifice in ancient times

Egg- The egg is a symbol of life. Also, it is said that the egg is the only food that gets harder the more it is cooked– in the way that the Jewish people get tougher the more the adversity.

Bitter herb- The bitter herb, usually horseradish, represents the bitterness that slavery caused for the Jews

The Passover Seder

The text of the Passover Seder is written in a book called the Haggadah. The content of the Seder consists of the following parts:

1. Sanctification

This is a blessing over wine in honor of the holiday. The wine is drunk, and a second cup is poured.

2. Washing

A washing of the hands without a blessing, in preparation for eating the first ritual food- the vegetable (Karpa)s.

3. Vegetable

A vegetable (usually parsley) is dipped in salt water and eaten. The vegetable symbolizes the lowly origins of the Jewish people; the salt water symbolizes the tears shed as a result of our slavery. Parsley is a good vegetable to use for this purpose, because when you shake off the salt water, it looks like tears.

4. Breaking

One of the three matzahs on the table is broken. Part is returned to the pile, the other part is set aside for the afikomen (see below).

5. The Story

A retelling of the story* of the Exodus from Egypt and the first Passover. This begins with the youngest person asking The Four Questions*, a set of questions about the proceedings designed to encourage participation in the Seder.

The Story is designed to satisfy the needs of four different types of people: the wise son, who wants to know the technical details; the wicked son, who excludes himself (and learns the penalty for doing so); the simple son, who needs to know the basics; and the son who is unable to ask, the one who doesn’t even know enough to know what he needs to know.

It includes a description of the *Ten Plagues of Egypt.

At the end of the Story a blessing is recited over the second cup of wine and it is drunk.

6. Washing

A second washing of the hands, this time with a blessing, in preparation for eating the matzah.

7. Blessing over Grain Products

The blessing is a generic blessing for bread or grain products used as a meal, is recited over the matzah.

8. Matzah: Blessing over Matzah

A blessing specific to matzah is recited, and a bit of matzah is eaten.

9. Bitter Herbs

A blessing is recited over a bitter vegetable (usually raw horseradish), and it is eaten. This symbolizes the bitterness of slavery. The matzah is eaten with a mixture of apples, nuts, cinnamon and wine (called maror), which symbolizes the mortar used by the Jews in building during their slavery.

10. The Sandwich

Rabbi Hillel was of the opinion that the maror should be eaten together with matzah and the paschal offering in a sandwich.

11. Dinner

A festive meal is eaten. There is no particular requirement regarding what to eat at this meal. (Just nothing with leavening.)

12. The last matzah  (Afikomen)

The piece of matzah set aside earlier is eaten as “dessert,” the last food of the meal. Different families have different traditions relating to the afikomen. Some have the children hide it, while the parents have to either find it or ransom it back. Others have the parents hide it. The idea is to keep the children awake and attentive throughout the pre-meal proceedings, waiting for this part.

13. Grace after Meals

The third cup of wine is poured, and grace after meals is recited. This is similar to the grace that would be said on any Sabbath. At the end, a blessing is said over the third cup and it is drunk. The fourth cup is poured, including a cup set aside for prophet Elijah who is supposed to herald the Messiah and is supposed to come on Passover to do this. The door is opened for a while at this point (supposedly for Elijah, but historically because Jews were accused of nonsense like putting the blood of Christian babies in matzah, and we wanted to show our Christian neighbors that we weren’t doing anything unseemly).

14. Praises

Several psalms are recited. A blessing is recited over the last cup of wine and it is drunk.

15. Closing

A simple statement that the Seder has been completed, with a wish that next year, we may celebrate Passover in Jerusalem (i.e., that the Messiah will come within the next year). This is followed by various hymns and stories.

The main highlights of the Seder are the recitation of the Ten Plagues that befell Egypt, causing the Pharaoh to let the Hebrew slaves leave, and the Four Questions, and the story of the exodus.

*The Story in a Nutshell

After hundreds of years of slavery to the Egyptian Pharaohs, during which time the Israelites were subjected to backbreaking labor and unbearable horrors, God saw the people’s distress and sent Moses to Pharaoh with a message: “Send forth My people, so that they may serve Me.” But despite numerous warnings, Pharaoh refused to heed God’s command. God then sent upon Egypt ten devastating plagues, afflicting them and destroying everything from their livestock to their crops.

At the stroke of midnight of the Hebrew month of Nissan 15, God visited the last of the ten plagues on the Egyptians, killing all their firstborn. While doing so, God spared the Children of Israel, “passing over” their homes—hence the name of the holiday. Pharaoh’s resistance was broken, and he virtually chased his former slaves out of the land. The Israelites left in such a hurry, in fact, that the bread they baked as provisions for the way did not have time to rise. 600,000 adult males, plus many more woman and children, left Egypt on that day, and began the trek to Mount Sinai and their birth as the Israelite people.

*THE TEN PLAGUES

The plagues as they appear in the bible are:

Water turned to blood killing all fish and other water life.

Frogs

Lice or gnats

Flies

Disease on livestock

Boils

Hail mixed with fire

Locusts

Darkness

Death of the first-born of all Egyptian families.

The plagues represent a serious problem for me and for Jews throughout history. Although the Ten Plagues are not the first to appear in the bible, they are the most significant: they represent the first time God intervenes in history to shape a peoples’ destiny. In fact, the Ten Plagues goal is not to compel Pharaoh to free the Hebrews—the last plague alone would have been enough for that; they were to show God’s power over the gods of Egypt and to punish the Egyptians for slavery.

Egypt drowned male babies into the Nile. Although most Egyptians did not personally participate in that, the very first plague—turning the Nile into blood—makes clear that all Egyptians share the guilt—the river itself gives witness to the infants drowned in the water.

Some of the early plagues cause more nuisance than suffering. Later plagues inflict economic destruction. The tenth plague is the final revenge for murder of the Hebrew newborns.  On one night, the firstborn sons of Egypt perish, and Pharaoh allows the Hebrew slaves to be freed.

The Book of Exodus reiterates repeatedly that throughout the plagues, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, so that he would not let the Hebrews leave. This seems morally problematic: God deprives Pharaoh of free will, and then punishes him for being hard-hearted!  The Talmud kind of ties itself in knots over this one and comes to the explanation that , actually, if God had NOT hardened Pharaoh’s heart, it would have deprived him of free will—he would have let the slaves go not by choice but out of terror. By hardening his heart, the Egyptian king no longer feared the kind of physical devastation that would terrify and evoke instant obedience from a normal person. However, there was nothing to stop Pharaoh from intellectually realizing the injustices he had inflicted on the Hebrew slaves, and letting them go. Only when the first born started dying did he realize he was facing a force stronger than his own.

Although the Ten Plagues must have been satisfying for the long-suffering slaves, Jewish tradition is extremely uncomfortable with the devastation of Egypt. During the Seder, when we recite the plagues, a drop of wine is spilled for each one, reminding us that we cannot celebrate another’s suffering. Also, when the Hebrews had safely crossed the Red Sea, we are told that God admonished them when the cheered as the Egyptian army drowned: “My creatures are drowning, and you are singing songs!” Similarly, in Deuteronomy, we are commanded by God—“You shall not abhor an Egyptian, for you were a stranger in his land.” (23:8)

*The Four Questions

The child is the most important participant at the Passover Seder. The entire Seder is constructed around the goal to mystify the child, to stimulate his curiosity, to compel him to ask: Why is this night different from all other nights? The Seder is celebrated especially for the children. It is important for Jewish children to be and feel involved in the celebration of Passover. Much of the ceremony is based on the commandment in the Bible that says, “And thou shalt tell thy son [now, children]”

The youngest child has the job of asking these four questions about why this night is different from all other nights:

Matzoh reminds us that when the Jews left the slavery of Egypt they had no time to bake their bread. They took the raw dough on their journey and baked it in the hot desert sun into hard crackers called matzoh.

Maror reminds us of the bitter and cruel way the Pharaoh treated the Jewish people when they were slaves in Egypt.

We dip bitter herbs into Charoset to remind us how hard the Jewish slaves worked in Egypt. The chopped apples and nuts look like the clay used to make the bricks used in building the Pharaoh’s buildings.We dip parsley into salt water. The parsley reminds us that spring is here and new life will grow. The salt water reminds us of the tears of the Jewish slaves.
4. On all other nights we eat sitting up straight….

Why do we lean on a pillow tonight?

We lean on a pillow to be comfortable and to remind us that once we were slaves, but now we are free.

The Haggadah itself stresses the importance of the Seder as “a spectacle meant to excite the interest and the curiosity of the children.” Everything in the Seder is meant to make the children curious and to ask questions.

The whole ritual of the Seder is to answer these questions.  We are instructed to not merely tell the story of the exodus, but to feel and believe that each of us, personally, was actually there. We are not supposed to tell the story as if it happened to other, but literally to each of us.

To be honest, as anyone who has children can attest, the Passover Seder is a misery for kids. The ritual is long and usually boring, even though we try to make it fun for kids. They have to sit during the whole reading of the Haggadah while they can smell the food that won’t be served until later; they are usually hungry and cranky. And yet, the holiday is one of those experiences that stays with them forever, for better or worse. Like the Thanksgivings or Christmases, where we are forced to spend time with weird uncles and aunts who pinch our cheeks. With crazy sisters-in-law. Where family tensions erupt. But hey, that’s a tradition!

The GOP appeals to the child in people (just look at the cartoonish characters representing it in the media and Congress).

The child they appeal to is the one that throws tantrums, beats up weaker kids for their milk money, is scared of people and things that are different, lies to escape responsibility for its actions and solipsistically believes that the most important thing in the world is what it personally wants, fears, hates, thinks and feels.

So should anyone be surprised that the current strategy of the GOP for dealing with the ramifications of their whipping up hatred and racism in society, their hypocritical sex scandals and financial improprieties is to turn to Democrats and sneer, “I know you are but what am I?”

The discourse in politics from the GOP hasn’t degraded as much as it has regressed. It is elementary school. Except 6 year olds know the difference between a lie and the truth, they get along with classmates of all races and they feel guilt when they get caught doing something wrong. It is kind of sad that one of the two major political parties in this nation is less mature and responsible than 1st graders.

The problem for the Dems in this is that there is a reason that the “lowest common denominator” is called “lowest”. The more crass and simplistic comments are the best understood by the widest amount of people. I mean, think about Reagan and Bush with their “Evil Empire” and “Axis of Evil”. I’m sure to the most devout GOPers they thought Bush was saying, “The Axes of Evil” and Evil would be coming to attack like the killers in a slasher movie.

Remember, under Bush we were going to defeat evil? Huh? Like Evil is hiding out in an abandoned warehouse in Gotham City? I’m surprised Bush never declared war on Bad Feelings too.

The unfortunate fact is that as good hearted and considerate as many Americans are, far too many are just not mature. They may have an adult body but inside resides a child working the levers. And as most are aware, children will believe almost anything their parents or an authority figure tells them. Especially if it’s stated as absolute fact. Or if it’s really scary.

Tell a roomful of children that if they get slapped on their back while crossing their eyes, their eyes will stick forever like that and some will fearfully accept that as fact. Tell a nation of adults that a health care reform bill actually has death panels to kill granny and some will fearfully accept that as fact.

American society, that is, American capitalist/corporatist society, has been conditioning generations to have a delayed adulthood, to remain “kids” even after they grow up.

Years ago and in many societies around the world, even more primitive ones, there was definition between childhood and adulthood. When you became an adult, you put away childish things. In civilized society, a boy would trade in his short pants for trousers when he became a man. In primitive societies, children would go through a scarification ritual to forever alter and change from a boy to a man.

The ritualization of becoming an adult is missing in today’s society and so many do not make any transition. Yes, there are Bar Mitzvahs and Bat Mitzvahs, Sweet Sixteens and Quinceaneras but they seem to be more symbolic than transformative today. Now, this is not an attempt to create a new interest group demanding the return of scarification or short pants. It is merely an observation that there doesn’t seem to be a division anymore between children and adults.

As any commercial for Dave and Busters demonstrates (in case you haven’t seen, it’s a Chuck E Cheese’s for adults).

Years ago, kids and especially girls were restricted from wearing jeans at school (in some schools, girls were barred from wearing pants and had to wear dresses or skirts). Today, parents can and some do wear the same style pants and shirts as their kids. They play Wii as much as or sometimes more than their kids. They get annual passes to theme parks. Adults eat kid food which corporate America has renamed “comfort food” so adults will feel good about it. Adults watch “comedies” which use endlessly recycled immaturity-based humor such as getting smacked in the groin, cruelty to animals and pee and poop jokes to get laughs.

Hey, I like a bite of mac and cheese while playing the latest Super Mario on my Wii after watching cartoons (er, I mean “animation”) on my huge plasma TV (one of my many “toys”) after picking up a Starbucks Mocha Frap (“milkshake”) on my way from the mall where I bought a bunch of new clothes that look just like what the kids are wearing and after I got my hip new haircut that looks just like Robert Pattinson’s because I’ve read the Twilight books and have seen both movies as I did with Harry Potter. And if my daughter ever questions me, I remind her who the adult is…after doing substantial research to verify.

Here’s the thing, if we can stipulate that child-like thinking is the easiest to manipulate and dominate, is not erasing the line between childhood and adulthood a boon to those who would most like to influence society? Does the unending childhood of Americans, the corporate and GOP political mantra impressed on the public of “Don’t worry about being selfish and self-indulgent, you can have it all, you deserve it!” not only appeal to the children in everyone but validate giving in to it?

As kids with credit cards (or home equity lines of credit), this nation swarmed the candy and toy stores, happily gratifying themselves with little thought of a bill ever coming and the same banks that lured them into doing so were actually financially entrapping them and stealing everything else that wasn’t nailed down. Was this a coincidence, that the banks fostered people acting irresponsibly like children so they would be burdened with debt and distracted while the nation’s wealth was robbed?

Let’s complete the circle now. Economically and politically, the most ideal population to be manipulated is one that thinks and acts like a child. Critical thinking is something that’s acquired with time and growing up. Principles that one lives one’s life by and stand by are also acquired by growing up. So, an adult who is just a grown up child is not much better equipped to avoid being manipulated than an actual child.

And I think this is what we’ve seen in quite a visible way in our society recently. The Teabaggers are tantrum throwing brats and bullies, beyond reason and reality. They have been given permission to hate or vent their fears impulsively just as children would. They are easily convinced of the most ridiculous and outrageous lies by the authority figures they trust, just as children would be. They don’t have the intellectual tools for self-awareness to see how they are perceived nor to question what really is the truth.

And my experience with Repubs has mostly been like talking to stubborn, grown up children who are more often than not, self-centered. “I don’t want to pay MY money for taxes, I want MY country back, I don’t want MY money paying for other people’s health insurance, I want MY religion as the law of the land, if MY candidate doesn’t win then the winner is not MY president, if you’re not just like ME then you’re MY enemy.”

It seems intuitive that the more of a child one is, the more one should connect with the corporate and GOP mindsets (which also collaborate on the constant and publicly broadcast delusion, “Just like every other American, YOU will be a millionaire one day!”). They pander and encourage child-like behavior and thinking in the public and benefit greatly from it.

Yelling, spitting, breaking things, threatening, throwing tantrums, whining about how no one listens to you or does what you want…that is today’s GOP.

So, if the GOP gets in trouble for something they’ve done, of course they’ll sneer, “I know you are, what am I?” If people with different color skin get what these people want for themselves, of course they’ll say, “No fair, that doesn’t count! You cheated!”.

This should not be a surprise. What is disappointing is how many adults in America see Peter Pan as a role model.

President Obama has opened up oil drilling 50 miles off the coast on much of the Eastern seaboard and 125 miles off the coast of Eastern Gulf of Mexico. While he shut down most drilling in Southern Alaska and has added drilling North of Alaska.

Open ocean drilling is not my first choice but the president faces a huge dilemma in how to finance new alternative energy spending. He’s already increased spending for renewable energy research with the stimulus and in the budget but that is mostly deficit spending. Thanks to the sudden interest of the left and right to have things paid for Obama has to come up with revenue for any new spending.

President Obama wanted that revenue to come from cap and trade but now that the right and left have demonized cap and trade even though it’s a progressive idea his hands are tied. The right always hated cap and trade by calling it a tax and now the left has demonized it because investors are part of the process. Not to mention that average Americans have cooled on worrying about climate change somewhat because with our short attention span society a couple of cooler years means the threat of climate change is not real to many Americans.

So what is a president to do when he needs revenue to develop alternate energy to make us energy independent?

Being the ultimate pragmatist he is Obama chose getting revenue through new open ocean oil drilling leases and possibly oil royalties. It’s not the best choice and would not be my choice but if the president wants to invest in renewable energy for energy independence and not increase the deficit it’s the only viable choice. My choice for the record would be just to deficit spend because it will pay off in the long run.

We also have to realize how we got here because we are way behind in alternate energy research because we’ve had no real energy policy since President Carter tried to implement one. We fooled ourselves with cheap fossil fuels and need decades of research and implementation to ween ourselves off of them. I know many progressive including many folks here just want to turn the page and go to alternative energies now without any transition period. The problem is the technology is simply not there yet and will not be there for decades.

Also for all the liars out there like HuffPo the president’s position on offshore drilling evolved during the election. I never had any delusions that Obama was not a politician. He modified his opinion on offshore drilling because it was popular but he also never forgets his grand strategy that included three basic pillars of his vision including; healthcare reform, energy independence and education reform.

Obama says would consider limited offshore drilling (from August 1st, 2008)

Obama dropped his blanket opposition to any expansion of offshore drilling and signaled support for a bipartisan compromise in Congress aimed at breaking a deadlock on energy that includes limited drilling.

“My interest is in making sure we’ve got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices,” Obama said in an interview with The Palm Beach Post during a tour of Florida.

“If, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage — I don’t want to be so rigid that we can’t get something done,” Obama told the newspaper.

Tonight begins the eight day holiday of Passover, the oldest continuing celebration among Jews.  In Judaism, there are three ways, or levels, of explaining a tradition or a text—the “simple” or face value meaning (Peshat), the story behind the text (Midrash), and the hidden or secret explanation or interpretation (Sod). Today, at the beginning of Passover, I thought I’d tell you about the basics of this celebration; later, I’ll post about the other ways of seeing it.

Personally, and because my parents were not religious, I learned the Passover story the old fashioned way—by watching Cecil B. DeMille’s The Ten Commandments!

Great effects for 1956, but what a crappy movie. Still, as a kid, I loved it even though I understood nothing. The acting was truly laughable, unless you were seven years old. All I remember was Ann Baxter saying over and over, “Oh, Moses, Moses!” and Edward G. Robinson sneering, “Yeah? Where’s yer God NOW, Moses?”

And that very scary scene where this creepy green fog descends onto Egypt and kills the first born. (YIKES-Me! I am the first born too!) The parting of the Red Sea was awesome cool, but I distinctly remember thinking: What happened to all the fish when the sea parted? Are they spinning around in that turbulence?

Instead of posting that interminable movie, the easiest way to let you know about Passover—and also because I am lazy—is with this short video. It is from The History Channel, about five minutes.

The History of Passover

http://www.history.com/videos/history-of-passover#history-of-passover

So, to recap, the festival of Passover is celebrated in the early spring, from the 15th through the 22nd of the Hebrew month of Nissan. It commemorates the emancipation of the Israelites from slavery in ancient Egypt. And, by following the rituals of Passover, we have the ability to relive and experience the true freedom that our ancestors gained.

Passover is probably the best known of the Jewish holidays, mostly because it ties in with Christian history (the Last Supper was a Passover seder). The seder is the name for the ritual meal we eat, and where we read aloud the story of the Exodus for Egypt. Seder is also the Hebrew word for “order” as in the order in which we tell the story and conduct the ritual.

Passover Observances

The highlight of Passover is the two “Seders,” observed on the first two nights of the holiday. The Seder is a fifteen step, family oriented, tradition and ritual packed feast.

The focal points of the Seder are:

• Eating matzah.

• Eating bitter herbs—to commemorate the bitter slavery endured by the Hebrews.
• Drinking four cups of wine or grape juice—a royal drink to celebrate our newfound freedom.

THE SEDERS

Instead of chametz, we eat matzah— flat unleavened bread. It is a mitzvah to partake of matzah on the two Seder nights (see below for more on this), and during the rest of the holiday it is optional.

• The term “Passover” derives from the Book of Exodus, where the Angel of Death ( the final Plague of Egypt) passed over the houses of the Hebrew slaves.

• The recitation of the Haggadah, a liturgy that describes in detail the story of the Exodus from Egypt. The Haggadah is the fulfillment of the biblical obligation to recount to our children the story of the Exodus on the night of Passover

• Passover is divided into two parts. a) The first two days and last two days (that commemorate the splitting of the Red sea) are full-fledged holidays. Holiday candles are lit at night, and we recite blessings over the wine and sumptuous holiday meals are enjoyed on both nights and days. Observant and Orthodox Jews don’t go to work, drive, write or switch on or off electric devices.

• (The “ch” in Hebrew is pronounced like the Scottish in the word “loch.”)

• To commemorate the unleavened bread that the Israelites ate when they left Egypt, we don’t eat or even retain in our possession any “chametz” from midday of the day before Passover until the conclusion of the holiday. Chametz means leavened grain—any food or drink that contains even a trace of wheat, barley, rye, oats, spelt or their derivatives and wasn’t guarded from leavening or fermentation. This includes bread, cake, cookies, cereal, pasta, and most alcoholic beverages. Moreover, almost any processed food or drink can be assumed to be chametz unless certified otherwise.

• Ridding our homes of chametz is an intensive process. It involves a full-out spring-cleaning search-and-destroy mission during the weeks before Passover, and culminates with a ceremonial search for chametz on the night before Passover, and then a burning of the chametz ceremony on the morning before the holiday.

MATZAH

In many homes, in addition to the ritual foods, dinner usually consists of gefilte fish (a kind of fish pate), matzah ball soup (chicken soup with dumplings), and a brisket with lots of potatoes (because we can’t eat grain and gotta get those carbs in!).

Gefilte Fish

(The red stuff in the middle is horseradish and beets, which makes the fish palatable. And makes our eyes tear.)

Matzah Ball Soup

Four Cups of Wine (Yes—FOUR FULL CUPS!)

Brisket Recipe (OY! Fat Dave has a Jewfro.)

http://www.history.com/videos/beef-brisket

Macaroons (which need no flour) are typical for dessert.

Since as a kid I learned the story of Passover from Cecil B. DeMille, it’s a good thing Mel Brooks wasn’t making movies then!

One last thing that I think is so cool—Obama Has a White House Seder.

Tomorrow, I will write about the Seder and its symbolism and later, about what I have learned about the more hidden, sacred meaning of the festival. Happy Passover!

In a new book called “Endless Universe, Beyond the Big Bang” by Theoretical Physicists Paul J. Steinhardt and Neil Turock published in 2007, they use the String Theory of matter/energy to put forward a new theory of the origins of the Universe. It still uses the concept of a big bang but says that there is an endless cycle of expansions, contractions, and bangs and that the universe recycles matter/energy every trillion earth years or so. I have just finished reading this book and I am fascinated by this. I am fascinated by the concepts of matter/anti-matter, “Dark Matter,” and “Dark Energy,” and the role these things might play in the Universe to recycle matter/energy. Do they really exist or are they just theoretical constructs to explain what we see when we look up in the night sky?

In a way I feel pity for those in our society who would look up in the night sky and not be curious about Nature. Knowledge is power, so why would someone simply deny the accumulated knowledge of humanity because it doesn’t fit their religious belief? So is denying the accumulated knowledge of humanity, ignorance? Apparently not, according to Christian fundamentalists who will say it is the irreligious who are ignorant. But knowledge based on a theistic belief, is not knowledge, it’s dogma. So if knowledge is power, is ignorance bliss? Of course it’s not. It’s an emotional weakness based on 5,000 years of brainwashing.

We need to return to a time before the concept of God or Gods entered our vocabulary. Did the concept of God or Gods enter our vocabulary when we gradually stopped being nomadic Hunter-gatherers and we became agriculturalists? It seems likely to me. Hunter-gatherers did not see themselves in competition with Nature. They saw themselves as part of Nature and their survival depended on Nature. Agriculturalists see Nature as a competitor that must be placated or battled if they are to survive.

I was born to secular Jewish parents, however, my beliefs have evolved to what atheists would call Naturalistic Pantheism ( http://www.pantheism.net/ ). My own opinion on atheism is that if one does not believe that a hairy old man lives in the sky and watches over our lives, then one is an atheist, end of story. Beyond that, anything goes. So if I want to believe that we are sitting on this ball of matter we call Earth, for some higher purpose than just surviving or existing, I can. After all, knowledge is power and ignorance is emotional weakness. My sincerest hope is that the higher purpose of our evolution and the evolution of the Universe is altruistic and is based on a society that does not abandon or victimize its vulnerable members. And I can believe that there is a transcendent reality that permeates the Universe. And I don’t care if hard core atheists say I’m not an atheist, because I believe in a transcendent reality.

It seemed best to keep the focus on HCR until it passed so I held off on posting the next step on organizing for GROW. Now that HCR has passed, addressing the corporate domination in our democracy and this nation seems even more pressing .

We all witnessed the lies, deceptions, hatred and madness that Corporate America whipped up to try and destroy health care reform. And they nearly won. Passing HCR was a rare victory for the people of this country over corporations but unfortunately, one that too many Americans see negatively because of the corporate propaganda that has infected them. Still, there is a momentum now for The People to take on the corporations.

Next up on the Congress’ and Pres. Obama’s agenda is regulation and reform of financial corporations. Combine those bills with the stimulus and the dynamics are quite clear. We have come to a tipping point for our economy, society and democracy. The U.S. will either tip over irretrievably to being a plutocracy, run to enrich corporations and the wealthy, to the disadvantage of 99% of Americans or this march towards permanent plutocracy will be halted and reversed.

There are so many critical issues needing attention at this point in our history and not all are directly related to corporations. However, the corporate agenda on each issue will always be enforced and hugely financed. Add to that, every issue is processed by and presented or ignored by the corporations that own the MSM. Corporations are a bottleneck through which most Americans receive their view of issues, the country and the world.

Fox News presents the most obvious example of how corporate power controls the discussion, the reality and the course of events in this nation. The pendulum has swung so far away from America being a country, of, for and by The People. It is indeed a time in our history where activism is continually needed to combat the unending campaign by corporations to further dominate this nation and exploit its people. They aren’t going to stop, we can’t afford to either.

Previously in American history, activism and taking responsibility for what happened in and to this country was seen as something that was part of one’s life as an American. The reality today is that most don’t seem to see this as an ongoing thing. Some folks show no social responsibility at all, just a focus on their individual lives. Others may be concerned and involved temporarily then disengage. Then there are those who feel that as an American, they have a duty to remain vested in what America is and will be.

The truth is that the proponents of greed, hatred, prejudice, plutocracy, theocracy, social injustice and many other not-so-pleasant things never take a break, they keep trying to move the country to conform to their selfish agendas.  They must be met at each turn by those representing the majority of Americans or these dedicated and fervent parties which represent a small minority of Americans, will eventually prevail.

Which brings me back to GROW.  I know it’s been a few weeks since the last post on GROW, as mentioned above, this was intentional so as not to split energies and focus from activism to push for the passage of HCR. My hope is that enthusiasm remains high for working collectively to continue making a difference in this country and standing up for returning this democracy to The People.

GROW’s Focus

In the last posts on GROW, the focus of the group was put up for discussion. A majority supported GROW starting out with a single, primary focus of addressing the SCOTUS ruling that gives corporations unlimited spending on elections, recognizing them as having the same rights as actual people. So, that will be the initial focus of GROW.

GROW’s Operation and Options

A number of operational issues received a consensus of agreement in the last post and appear below. Also, several suggestions were offered then and are also included:

1. Secondary issues that are connected to corporate dominance of our society can also be part of GROW’s efforts as it “grows”, including election finance reform, outlawing contributions by lobbyists, promoting voting to younger voters, spotlighting and countering corporate agendas being promoted by the MSM, identifying corporate-beholden politicians and possibly supporting primary and GE challengers to them.

2. GROW’s first protest will legitimize it as an actual entity so that needs to happen first.

3. Protests should be visual and humorous/satirical to be more attractive to the media for broadcasting and to encourage people to share with others in hopes of bringing more attention to the issue and GROW. They could be designed for both groups and individuals to perform simultaneously, wherever they are in the country, to give the appearance and impact of a national protest.

4. Prior to each protest, press releases should be sent out to local and national media, notices should be handed out and posted on walls, telephone poles, etc. at and around the location(s) where a protest is to occur.

5. After staging its first protest, GROW should actively pursue associations with other grass roots Progressive groups such as the Coffee Party, Move To Amend and individuals such as bloggers, organizers, political artists, etc., to support their efforts and sites and in turn seek their support on GROW’s protests and growth. It is hoped that various grass roots Progressive groups could be networked and coordinated on various initiatives. Facebook and Twitter should be actively used to promote GROW and its activities.

6. A YouTube channel should be set up for GROW to display videos of its protests and for videos created by members, this could include a video version of “Corporations Are People Too”. Links to the videos would be spread by members across the internet. Fliers featuring Dr. Suits or other amusing approaches to getting the message across, with tear offs of GROW’s URL could be circulated at colleges and elsewhere.

If you have any comments, criticisms or additions to the above, please don’t hesitate to add them in a comment below.

GROW Website

In response to the vote we held on the name of the website for GROW, I have retained the site, growdemocracy.org . It will take donations to finance web hosting for that site so in the meantime, I have set up an initial website for GROW at WordPress.com which is open and active now: http://growdemocracy.wordpress.com/.  You will need to sign up for a WordPress.com account to blog there but it is as quick and easy as signing up here. You may want to use the same email address you used here so the same Gravatar shows for you there too.

Time to Design The First Protest!

As to where things are now, with everything else generally discussed, now it is finally time to discuss what the first protest should be. As we’ve discussed and there seems to be consensus, it should be a clever, amusing, visual protest. What would be great is to come up with a concept that can be done by groups as well as individuals so that those who are in the vicinity of other members could protest with them and those who are not could protest too. As mentioned above, this could give the impact of a national event (think how few teabaggers it took yelling at town halls to make that a massive story).

Once this is decided, all that will left to be decided is setting a date and with that protest, GROW will be a legitimate activist group!

So, let’s bat it around, what would be amusing and eye-catching (aka MSM-catching) ways to protest the SCOTUS ruling and promote the need for there to be hard limits on corporate spending on elections?

No idea is too silly so don’t hold back. Have fun with this and who knows, you may come up with the idea that launches GROW!

I had a Voltaire moment earlier this week. It was one of those moments when I paused to realise that my education had not been in vain, but it shocked me nonetheless because I actually found myself defending Ann Coulter.

Not that I like or agree with anything Ann Coulter might ever say or venture to say, you understand, but on this occasion, I felt she was worth defending.

I had read about her speaking tour of Canada and of how the president of one of the three Canadian universities where she’d been scheduled to speak, had written her an e-mail warning her that freedom of speech in Canada wasn’t quite the same thing as it was in the United States; therefore, basically, Coulter should tone her message, and the words used to convey it, down a decibel. The e-mail left a subtly understood phrase “or else” hanging at its end like a dangling participle.

This e-mail prefaced her tour, but the next thing I heard was that this selfsame president had actually cancelled Coulter’s appearance, due to an incident that had happened at the university where she spoke immediately before his institution.

Coulter had been speaking at the University of Eastern Ontario, when – during a Question and Answer sesson at the end of her speech – she was confronted by a 17 year-old Muslim student who asked that Coulter justify a remark made in one of her previous books, asserting that Muslims should be forbidden to fly, post-9/11.

Whilst I’m no fan at all of Coulter’s and I’ve never read any of her books (nor do I plan to do so), even I understand that, more than anything, Coulter is a satirist – albeit, a satirist from the Right end of the political spectrum. The satire in her works is extreme, to say the least, but a lot of political satire pushes the extreme in its limits. Even pundits such as Joan Walsh and Alan Colmes have recognised this facet of her work. The fact that most people from both sides of the political coin, who’ve read Coulter’s writings, don’t recognise this as satire and buy into a serious reading of her message, marks her out on the Left as a whackjob and on the extreme Right as the Queen Mother of the message they hope to convey.

The plain truth is, I imagine, that she’s neither.

I’ve no doubt that she’s a Republican or that she’s a conservative, but I’ve every doubt that she drinks the koolaid she sells. Coulter’s schtick, like most pure satirists, is to provoke a reaction, and her works certainly do just that. They provoke horror and revulsion amongst the Left. On the Right, these people recognise her as giving voice to a lot of thoughts they’ve harboured, but never found the courage to express vocally. To the people on the Right, Coulter’s their Bill Maher, who happens – in real life – to be a particularly good friend of Coulter. In fact, Maher’s said on several occasions, that once someone’s spoken with Coulter, and taken the politics out of the situation, it’s easy to see exactly from whence she’s come and where she hopes to take her message.

And that’s directly to the bank.

In truth, I don’t suppose Maher or Coulter differ very much in real political perspective: they both support the death penalty and racial profiling, they are both anti-union, don’t approve of government-controlled healthcare and are virulently against government funding of the arts. Both have been extremely vocal critics of George Bush. Yet Bill is considered and calls himself a Progressive, and Ann is readily identifiable as a Republican. Maher’s espousal of the legalisation of pot and same-sex marriage saves him from being branded as a Republican, but doesn’t exclude him from being accused of being a closet Blue Dog.

Anyway, the serious Canadian adolescent demanded Coulter justify her remarks about Muslims not being allowed to fly. As if she were unable to believe the content of the question, Coulter paused for a moment, before replying, “And here I thought it was only American schools that produced ignorant students.”

The nuance in the reply was clear. The remark was satirical and not meant to be taken literally. Maybe this was the first time Coulter was presented with someone taking the supposed veracity of the statement to heart, and that someone happened to be a po-faced first-year university student. In retort, the student took the argument one step further.

“I’d just like to know,” she began, “how I’m expected to travel, being a Muslim.”

Coulter gave a wise-assed reply that summed up her estimation of a sublime moment descending into the realm of ridicule.

“Flying carpet,” she quipped.

It was snark.

But still, the student demanded mollification. “But what if I can’t afford a flying carpet?” she continued. (I mean, why not ask “how long is a piece of string” while you’re at it).

Finishing off what had evolved into a conversation truly worthy of theatre de l’absurde, Coulter finished by telling the student to “take a camel.”

The next day, Coulter was informed that her second engagement, at the University of Ottawa (whose president had sent her the e-mail), had been cancelled.

Allegedly, students raised a protest, demanding that she be allowed to speak, but the president wouldn’t be budged, even though several of this group recognised the fact that she should be allowed to give her point of view in the speaking engagement already booked.

Local publications and the Huffington Post implied that the cancellation was due to the exchange with the student at the University of Eastern Ontario, which was pretty silly to say the least. It was a conversation, based on a question posed by a pretty intelligent kid, who’d probably never read anything Coulter had actually written and who’d pounced upon the remark taken out of context and taken personal umbrage at it on face value. Understandable. I, quite often, take umbrage at the blanket assumption of many people on my own side of the political fence that all Southerners are Rightwing, incestuous, fundamentalist Christian and stupid. I’m certainly none of those things, and I take exception to the inference.

But the kid, having never read whatever book from whence that statement came, either didn’t understand that Coulter’s works were satirical (and straight satire is, quite often, not intended to be funny), or – if she had read the work – she didn’t understand satire in general. Was she wrong to have asked the question? Probably. Certainly, she was wrong to challenge someone on a statement made in a published work, without either having read or understood the work, in question.

And Coulter was probably wrong to give the answers she gave – certainly, the initial answer, which implied that American students were stupid and inferred that Canadians were also. In actualy fact, a remark like that reeked of something Bill Maher would say – only in that instance, the audience intended, both sides of the 44th Parallel, would have howled with glee and nodded in agreement.

Huffington Post reported the incident in an article, which was repeated on their Facebook page. Immediately it appeared, the article was inundated with comments from both Canadians and Americans, alike, the majority of them calling for Coulter to be silenced, commending the Canadians on quelling Coulter’s voice and wishing there were some way America could shut her up. Some clever clogs, an American, remarked that the fact that the Canadians had, effectively, denied Coulter her right to speak, implied that they were actually better than Americans, and this comment was followed by several, expressing a desire to move to Canada.

Why?

Healthcare?

Or the fact that the Canadians appear not to have anything remotely resembling a First Amendment, so they can silence any remark they deem to be particularly offensive anytime they choose?

On Bill Maher’s MySpace page, a regular Canadian commentator dove in, feet first, with a gloating remark, pungent with sarcasm, at the triumph of the Canadians not to tolerate racist remarks and condescendingly explaining to the Americans peopling the forum that in Canada, they have race hate laws that forbid this sort of thing.

Well … wait a moment.

Let’s look at what Coulter said.

She actually didn’t declare during the speech, that she thought Muslims should be prohibited from flying. This was something brought up by a member of the audience. Her initial response – that Canadian students were probably as stupid as Americans, which surprised her – held no racist or racial content.  Was it rude? Yes. Offensive? Most definitely, to Americans as well as Canadians, and the exchange should have stopped at that point, and Coulter should have moved on; but she allowed the student to persist, in what proceeded to become an almost surreal conversation.

Were the “flying carpet” and “camel” remarks racist? I think they were intended to be sarcastic, and their intent was probably to shut the kid up, implying that the initial question wasn’t worth a serious answer. Coulter could have stopped and laboured a point with the student that her work and the comment, therein, were satirical; but Coulter’s a single woman, pushing fifty, who’s never been married or around students since she was one, herself. She’s the product of a private education and the holder of an Ivy League degree. She probably assumed that anyone attending a university ought to have some concept of satire, or she should have realised that the kid had probably never read the book she was querying. A good reply would have been to ask the student if she’d read the book, and to suggest that she do so before attempting to analyse and question a controversial remark, taken out of context.

So were the remarks racist? Not really. Stupid. Ignorant. Almost puerile, yes, but racist, no.

Anyway, the gloating Canadian commentator on the forum was just advertising his own ignorance in his remarks, because Muslims are not one particular racial group. A Muslim is a follower of Islam. “Muslim” is a religious term, not racist. Keith Ellison is an African-American (by race), who is a Congressman and a Muslim. His religion is Islam. Sarah Joseph is a British author and lecturer, who is Caucasian (by race) and who is also a Muslim. “Jihan Jane”. John Walker Lindh. Mike Tyson. Salman Rushdie.

If you take Coulter’s remark literally, all of those people would be denied access to travel by aeroplane.

Did Coulter’s remarks imply or incite religious hatred? Not at all.

Canada probably does have race hate laws, much in the same way the UK does – laws, which prohibit direct incitement of hate against people for reasons of race. There are also laws in the UK, which do the same, regarding religion. Maybe this is true in Canada as well, but Coulter, in this instance, was guilty of nothing more than silly, snarky remarks.

What is disturbing about this entire incident is the readiness, the eagerness of the people on the Left to silence any sort of controversial viewpoint that isn’t in lockstep with their own views. Lockstep is supposed to be something identifiable with the Rightwing. We’re supposed to be the Big Tent. Yet when I made a remark, recently, on another forum, in support of Markos Moulitsas’s view that Dennis Kucinich’s eleventh-hour obdurance, which threatened passage of healthcare reform, was not helpful to the cause, I had several people, who prided themselves on their own tolerant image, go viral on me. This is tolerance? Not much.

The Coulter incident reminded me of an observation Coulter’s sparring partner, Bill Maher, made about a year ago in an interview with Howard Kurz – how it always shocked and alarmed him that the people most vocal in wanting to deny First Amendment rights to opposing viewpoints were young college-aged people who purported to be from the Left.

These seem to be the same demographic of people who are expressing a longing to move to the Canadian Utopia, more or less, for what they perceive to be “free healthcare”. That’s another fallacy being promoted by Canadians, who should know better, one of whom is the selfsame Mr MySpace, who pronounced upon Coulter’s remark. He’s gloatingly gone on record, as have many other Canadian commentators I’ve read, staking bragging rights to Canada’s “free healthcare”.

It’s not, and he knows it. Free at source, yes, but “free at source” doesn’t mean “free.” It means you pay for it, beforehand, via taxes, doofus. Regrettably, a lot of Americans buy into the “free lunch” notion attached to this, so maybe Coulter does have a point about American and Canadian stupidity.

There is such a wealth of information on the Family that it is almost impossible to condense it all down to a single article. There are so many twists and turns that I don’t believe anyone will ever know the full measure of whatever good or harm they have perputrated around the for mainstream Americans. I will do my best to give you some history and information about their relationships in this post. It is, however, something I believe will be exposed more and more as Americans become more aware of the happenings around them. We are coming out of a long period of “misinformation” by our own government, however most Americans have a desire to seek knowledge and truth and that is a good thing.

Fellowship Foundation, AKA The Family, also known as the prayer breakfast groups, is an international organization founded in 1935 by Dr. Abraham Vereide in Seattle, Washington . He incorporated in Chicago, Illinois as Fellowship Foundation Inc. acquired the names International Christian Leadership, ICL, Fellowship House and International Foundation as venues of global outreach ministry expanded. Participants include ranking government officials, corporate executives, heads of religious and humanitarian aid organizations, and ambassadors, from around the world. It has been described as one of the most well-connected ministries in the US. The names of identified members is like a who’s who of the beltway.

The claim by The Family or Doug Coe, their current leader, is that this group is in operation to provide a fellowship forum for decision makers to share in Bible Studies, prayer meetings, worship experiences and to experience spiritual affirmation and support. It should be noted here that Dick Foth a well known evangelical in the Beltway may be named as the new leader when Coe retires completely. Dick Foth has an interesting background all on his own. Jeff Sharlet has documented their activities and intentions in his book, The Family. Max Blumenthal also covers the Family in his book, Republican Gomorrah.

The group is most widely known for facilitating supportive prayer groups throughout the United States and around the world, including the Presidential Prayer Breakfast, later known as the National Prayer Breakfast. Every sitting United States president since 1953 has participated in the national breakfast. However, they have, most recently been identified for carrying out a lot more than Prayer Breakfasts. The group treasures confidentiality above everything else and it urges members to avoid gossip.

Prominent evangelical Christians, have described it as one of the most politically well-connected ministries in the world. Charles “Chuck” Colson of Watergate fame described the group as a “veritable underground of Christ’s men all through the US government.” The Family also has relationships with numerous non-US government leaders. It has been reported that it “has relationships with pretty much every world leader— good and bad.” David Kuo, former special assistant to George W Bush’s Office of Faith Based Iniatives has said “The Fellowship’s reach into governments around the world is almost impossible to overstate or even grasp.”

Fellowship Foundation traces its roots to Dr.Abraham Vereide, a Methodist clergyman and social innovator, and a month of prayer meetings he convened in 1934 in San Francisco and Seattle. Vereide himself was a Norwegian immigrant who, in 1916, founded Goodwill Industries in Seattle to encourage and lift up the city’s unemployed and distraught Scandinavian immigrant population. His Goodwill Industries soon occupied a whole city block, where they repaired & processed discarded clothing and furniture and converted “waste to wages”, inspired a “dedicated head, heart, and hand” and developed citizens of God’s kingdom on Heaven and earth. His work spread down the West coast and eventually to Boston.

The Family and others on the religious right believe in Rousas John Rushdoony’s Christian Reconstructionism and praise his works, for reasons which will become obvious. He famously maintained that Calvinistic Christianity provided the intellectual roots for the American Revolution and had always had an influentual impact in American History. The Revolution, according to Rushdoony was a “conservative counterrevolution” to preserve American liberties from British usurpation and it owed nothing to the Enlightenment. He also argued that the US Constitution was a secular document in appearance only, it did not need to establish Christianity as an official religion since the states were already Christian establishments. Therefore, the separation of church and state was not a legal amendment and should be abolished. Is the Texas school board decision coming to mind right about now? Rushdoony wrote the 1894 page opus, The Institutes of Biblical Law, which was a roadmap to establish religious law in the United States. Rushdoony is also the founder of the home school movement.

A Timeline of Their History

1935 – Vereide held the first breakfast meeting in San Francisco with Major JF Douglas

1942 – 60 breakfast groups in major cities around the country, that same year Vereide started holding the same for both houses of congress, he also started newsletters to facilitate these meetings

1947 – a conference in Washington led to the formation of the International Council for Christian Leadership (ICCL), an umbrella group for the national fellowship groups in the United States, Canada, Great Britain, Norway, Hungary, Egypt, and China. Fellowship House was established in a building on Massachusetts Ave in DC.

1953 – President Eisenhower attended the first Senate Prayer Breakfast Group. It was renamed the Presidential Prayer Breakfast setting the stage for other world leaders to be invited. Core members at that time were Senators Frank Carlson, Karl Mundt, Everett Dirkson and Strom Thurmond.

1957 – ICCL had established 125 groups in 100 cities, with 16 groups in Washington, D.C.. Around the world, it had set up another 125 groups in Canada, Britain, Germany, France, Northern Ireland, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Ethiopia, India, South Vietnam, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Philippines, Australia, New Zealand, Guatemala, Cuba, Costa Rica, Mexico, and Bermuda. During this time, future Fellowship Leader, Douglas Coe joined Vereide as assistant executive director of ICL in Washington, D.C. Richard Halverson became executive director. They now had global outreach to every corner of the world.

They are all about secrecy as you can tell in some of the following quotes:

In 1985, President Ronald Reagan said about the Fellowship, “I wish I could say more about it, but it’s working precisely because it is private.”

Former Republican Senator William Armstrong said the group has “made a fetish of being invisible.”

At the 1990 National Prayer Breakfast, President George H.W. Bush praised Doug Coe for what he described as “quiet diplomacy, I wouldn’t say secret diplomacy.”

In 2009, Reverend Chris Halverson, a son of the now deceased former executive associate director Dr. Richard C. Halverson, speaking about the culture of pastoral confidentiality and it’s necessity to the ministry: “If you talked about it, you would destroy that fellowship.”

Author Jeff Sharlet describes the decision for The Family to shift to global operations as:

“Thereafter, the Family would avoid at all costs any appearance of an organization… Business would be conducted on the letterhead of public men, who would testify that Family initiatives were their own. Finances would be more ‘man-to-man,’ which is to say, off the books.”

Senate Prayer Group member, Senator Sam Brownback has described the group members’ method of operation: “Typically, one person grows desirous of pursuing an action”—-a piece of legislation, a diplomatic strategy—-”and the others pull in behind.” Indeed, Brownback has often joined with fellow Family members in pursuing legislation. For example, in 1999 he joined together with fellow Family members, Senators Strom Thurmond and Don Nickles to demand a criminal investigation of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, and in 2005 Brownback joined with Family member Sen. Tom Coburn to promote the Houses of Worship Act.

Jeff Sharlet has described, The Family leader Doug Coe as preaching a leadership model, and a personal commitment to Jesus Christ, comparable to the blind devotion that Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mao, and Pol Pot demanded from their followers. In one videotaped 1989 lecture series, Coe said:

“Hitler, Goebbels and Himmler were three men. Think of the immense power these three men had…But they bound themselves together in an agreement…Two years before they moved into Poland, these three men had…systematically a plan drawn out…to annihilate the entire Polish population and destroy by numbers every single house…every single building in Warsaw and then to start on the rest of Poland.” Coe adds that it worked; they killed six and a half million “Polish people.” Though he calls Nazis “these enemies of ours,” he compares their commitment to Jesus’ demands: “Jesus said, ‘You have to put me before other people. And you have to put me before yourself.’ Hitler, that was the demand to be in the Nazi party. You have to put the Nazi party and its objectives ahead of your own life and ahead of other people.”

I do have to ask here, Polish people? Does Coe really believe the Holocaust only involved Polish People? Did Coe read the same history books that the rest of us read? It would seem he did not if he can make a statement like that.

Later in the video, Coe also contrasts Jesus’ teachings with the Red Guard during the Chinese Cultural Revolution:

“I’ve seen pictures of young men in the Red Guard of China…they would bring in this young man’s mother and father, lay her on the table with a basket on the end, he would take an axe and cut her head off….They have to put the purposes of the Red Guard ahead of the mother-father-brother-sister — their own life! That was a covenant. A pledge. That was what Jesus said.”

Members try to explain this away as teaching metaphors, however it seems like the Religious Right and this group have a very odd fascination with Fascism. Much of the Family work in Europe after WWII was guided by ex-Nazi personnel.

The Family does not conduct public fundraising, I would assume with the contacts they have generated all over the world, fundraising would be the least of their efforts. They have supporters from all walks of life, Congress, World Leaders, Huge Corporations, Evangelical billionaires like Howard Ahmanson, Phillip Anschutz(owner of AEG, The LA Lakers, Walden Media, Shareholder(major) The Weekly Standard, Paul Temple, former executive of Exxon, The Kingdom Fund (Kingdom Oil Christian Foundation t/a Twin Cities Christian Foundation). Reading about Howard Ahmanson and Phillip Anschutz is a monumental project on its own. They are very wealthy men who have devoted themselves and their billions to religious right causes. Phillip Anshutz is a recluse and has not given an interview since 1974. Ahmanson does not talk publicly much either, however his wife was a religious reporter for the Orange County Register. In March 2009, he left the Republican party and is now registered as a Democrat. Not sure how that bodes for the party. I have included a link below regarding his switch to the Dems. I, for one, am not sure the Democrats in California or the nation should be too thrilled with this change of heart.

Doug Coe has said that The Family through the National Prayer Breakfast(NPB) does not help foreign dignitaries gain access to U.S. officials. “We never make any commitment, ever, to arrange special meetings with the president, vice president or secretary of State,” Coe said. “We would never do it.”

If that is the case, why would Sen Bill Nelson(D-FL) complain at a 2001 Senate Foreign Relations Committee confirmation hearings for State Department officials, that the State Department had blocked then-President Bush from meeting with four foreign heads of state (Rwanda, Macedonia, Congo and Slovakia) at the NPB that year? And why should heads of state or any other officials be able to wander in and compel the President to meet with him because they are at the same function? Meetings with the President are always vetted, no foreign leader should be talking with the President without having been vetted. And what power would a single person have that could arrange such a meeting?

The Family’s Role in International Conflicts and Diplomacy

Jeff Sharlet has criticized the Fellowship’s influence on US foreign policy. He argues that Doug Coe and the Family’s “networking” (or formation of prayer cells) between foreign dictators and US politicians, defense contractors, and industry leaders has facilitated military aid for repressive foreign regimes. Sharlet did intensive research in the Family’s archives, kept at the Billy Graham Center, before the Family archives were closed to the public. Sharlet covers much more than I do here on their International affairs but for space reasons, I will cover a few that peaked my curiosity and gave me pause as to their “real agenda” in their dealings with General Suharto of Indonesia in the 1970s, and with Siad Barre of Somalia in the 1980s. Also, in the Family’s archives, there are at least two nearly full boxes of documents describing the Family’s relationship with Brazil’s long dictatorship of the Generals. Coe claims he never invites these people, they come to him. I am sure out of a sense that he will be friendly. Coe claims he does not turn his back on anyone, after “the Bible was full of mass murderers”

The LA Times examined the Fellowship’s archives (before they were sealed) as well as documents obtained from several presidential libraries and found that the Family has had extraordinary access and significant influence over U.S. foreign affairs for the last 50 years.

The Fellowship has funded the travel expenses of members of Congress to various hot spots throughout the globe, including Rep. Robert Aderholt (R-Al.) to Darfur, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Ok.) to Lebanon, Rep. Aderholt to The Balkans, and Reps John Carter (R-Tex.) and Joseph Pitts (R.-Pa.) to Belarus.

In 2002, Reps. Frank Wolf (R-Va.), Tony P. Hall (D-Ohio) and Joe Pitts (R-Pa.) traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan on a fact-finding congressional trip, meeting with the leaders of both Muslim countries.

According to Pitts, “The first thing we did when we met with President Karzai and President Musharraf was to say, ‘We’re here officially representing the Congress; we’ll report back to the speaker, our leaders, our committees, our government. But we’re here also because we’re best friends…. We’re members of the same prayer group’”. In addition, Doug Coe has been dispatched to foreign governments with the blessing of congressional representatives and has helped arrange meetings overseas for U.S. officials and members of Congress.

The Family has brought controversial international figures to Washington to meet with US officials. Among them are former Salvadoran Gen. Carlos Eugenio Vides Casanova, who in 2002 was found liable by a civil jury in Florida for the torture of thousands of civilians in the 1980s. He was invited to the 1984 prayer breakfast, along with Gen. Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, then head of the Honduran armed forces who was linked to a death squad. Siad Barre, the dictator over Somalia was a member of the Family. As of 1991 when he fled to Nigeria, his regime had one of the worst human rights records in Africa, not to mention the 100’s of thousands who fled to Ethiopia to escape the dictator rule and are said to have compounded the famine there. Jeff Sharlet had this to say about Coe and the Family’s relationship with Somalia:

“He is not looking to democracy, but this model of absolute strength and that leads the Family into relationships with men like Museveni in Uganda. Before him, their key man for Africa was a guy named Siad Barre of Somalia, for who Chuck Grassley became a kind of defacto lobbyist as the United States pumped up his military, which he then used to absolutely destroy his country to such an effect that Somalia has never recovered and today is a haven for al-Queda, for terrorism, for piracy. It is a lawless nation. The Family says that is part of God’s plan”

Jeff Sharlet has also said that Sam Brownback leads a secret cell of leading members of Congress to influence US Foreign policy. He reports the group has stamped much of that policy through a Value Actions Team(VAT). One victory for this group was Sam Brownback’s “Northern Korea Human Rights Act”, which establishes a confrontational stance toward North Korea and shifts the funds for humanitarian aid from the UN to Christian organizations.

The Family, through Representative Joe Pitts (R.-Pa.), redirected millions in US aid to Uganda from sex education programs to abstinence programs, sparking an evangelical revival, which included burning of condom. Following the American intervention, the Ugandan HIV incidence rate, once dropping, jumped from 70,000 in 2003 to 130,000 in 2005. So, unique way to spark an AIDs epidemic, Mr. Coe. It should also be noted that Pope Benedict XVI did not help matters when he proclaimed to Africans on his first visit there that condoms could make the AIDs crisis worse. What a unique way of ministering to the people.

In a November 2009 NPR interview(provided below), Jeff Sharlet alleged that Ugandan Fellowship associates David Bahati and Nsaba Buturo were behind the recent proposed bill in Uganda that called for the death penalty for gays. Sharlet reveals that David Bahati, the Uganda legislator backing the bill, reportedly first floated the idea of executing gays during The Family’s Uganda National Prayer Breakfast in 2008. Jeff Sharlet says Mr. Bahati as a “rising star” in the Family who has attended the National Prayer Breakfast in the United States and, until the news over the gay execution law broke, was scheduled to attend this year’s U.S. National Prayer Breakfast was cancelled.

Family member Bob Hunter gave an interview to NPR in December in which he acknowledged Bahati’s connection but argued that no American associates support the bill. Rick Warren would probably say the same thing, but it is curious with all the attention paid to Uganda by the religious right that this bill has now come up for legislation. What do you suppose these same people would do if Uganda had come to our country and tried to impose their religious beliefs on people here? Somehow I believe you would have heard an uproar worse than we have seen this past week over HealthCare Reform.

There are so many details and stories and people who have been involved in the Family that it would be impossible to cover it all here. I would encourage you to read some of the books I referenced in this series. While Republican Gomorrah by Max Blumenthal was probably the best and easiest read, it covered the Family, GOP and the Religious Right, Jeff Sharlett’s book will provide an more in-depth look at the Family and their “friends”.

Last in this series will be The Consequences of the religious right’s influence on our society and what we can do to counter that influence.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=120746516

Jeff Sharlett’s 2009 interview with NPR

http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2009/03/howard-ahmanson-democrat-shock.html

Howard Ahmanson’s announcement to leave the GOP and become a Democrat

The Grateful Dead must be rolling in their joints. As described in the NYT:

On Wednesday, the California secretary of state certified a November vote on a ballot measure that would legalize, tax and regulate marijuana, a plan that advocates say could raise $1.4 billion and save precious law enforcement and prison resources.

Indeed, unlike previous efforts at legalization — including a failed 1972 measure in California — the 2010 campaign will not dwell on assertions of marijuana’s harmlessness or its social acceptance, but rather on cold cash.

“We need the tax money,” said Richard Lee, founder of Oaksterdam University, a trade school for marijuana growers, in Oakland, who backed the ballot measure’s successful petition drive. “Second, we need the tax savings on police and law enforcement, and have that law enforcement directed towards real crime.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/us/26pot.html?sq=california%20marijuana&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=2&adxnnlx=1269709254-nlBZAkB3cWx5qZPbg8cRaw

It’s been a while since the last time CA voted on legalizing pot but as we all know, the state was a leader in legalizing medical marijuana. It does seem like an opportune time for this choice to be presented to the public…munchies are cheaper than ever.

Seriously, though, today’s society generally accepts that there must have been good reasons for marijuana originally being made illegal in the first place, there is nothing historically that backs this up.

The history of marijuana criminalization is a mix of wrongheaded theories, fear and racism towards Mexicans.

From The History of the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937 By David F. Musto, M.D., From the Child Study Center, School of Medicine, and the Department of History, Graduate School, Yale University, New Haven, CT, 1972:

The anti-marihuana law of 1937 was largely the federal government’s response to political pressure from enforcement agencies and other alarmed groups who feared the use and spread of marihuana by “Mexicans.” Recent evidence also suggests that the Federal Bureau of Narcotics resisted the enforcement burden of the antimarihuana law until mounting pressure on the Treasury Department led to a departmental decision, probably in 1935, to appease this fear, mostly in the Southwest and West, by federal legislation. Previously unpublished documents clarify the role of medical research in the campaign for a federal anti-marihuana law and in the Treasury Department’s preparation for congressional hearings.

Dr. Hamilton Wright, a State Department official who from 1908 to 1914 coordinated the domestic and international aspects of the federal antinarcotic campaign, wanted cannabis to be included in drug abuse legislation chiefly because of his belief in a hydraulic model of drug appetites. He reasoned, along with numerous other experts, that if one dangerous drug was effectively prohibited, the addict’s depraved desires would switch to another substance more easily available.

When the great Depression settled over America, the Mexicans, who had been welcomed by at least a fraction of the communities in which they lived, became an unwelcome surplus in regions devastated by unemployment. Considered a dangerous minority which should be induced to return to Mexico by whatever means seemed appropriate, they dwelt in isolated living groups.

Although employers welcomed them in the 1920s, Mexicans were also feared as a locus of crime and deviant social behavior. By the mid-1920s horrible crimes were attributed to marihuana and its Mexican purveyors.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/history/mustomj1.html

For a great documentary about the history of marijuana, If you haven’t seen Grass, roll a fatty, fire up the lava lamp, order a pizza, sit back and enjoy:

via videosift.com

Now, many may support this measure for self-gratifying reasons, there are some hugely important reasons for the ball to start rolling on legalizing marijuana in America.

1. The Economy

Billions of Federal, State and local dollars are spent enforcing laws against growing, selling and possessing marijuana. Add to that the billions spent trying cases and incarcerating people for all of these non-violent crimes.

Instead, there are billions to be gained in tax revenue annually if it is legalized and taxed as alcohol is. Combining the billions saved with the billions generated, it could be a huge help in balancing the budget in CA and elsewhere.

If it’s legalized, growing marijuana could also be a timely income stream for those unemployed.

Cost alone is not the reason to legalize a substance. Is it addictive? Does it cause violent behavior? Does it have medicinal uses? Is it exceptionally harmful to one’s body? How does Jack Daniels stack up on all of these questions?

2. Society

Prisons are overcrowded and make a huge dent in state and federal budgets. Billions need to be spent on building more prisons to reduce overcrowding. The Prison Industrial Complex has been insatiable and a huge beneficiary of the futile Drug War. In California, more is spent on prisons than universities.

Add to that the inequity of people being imprisoned for the substantial possession, use, sale, purchase or growing of marijuana…alongside rapists and murderers.

Marijuana is a plant that naturally grows on planet Earth. How sensible is it to make laws that outlaw nature? Relatively harmless nature, at that.

I certainly understand laws against the manipulation, processing or distilling of natural substances into deadlier forms, such as processing poppies to create something destructive like heroin. Yes, there are plants that are poisonous too but we seem to be able to deal with many of them being in our gardens (Azalea, Belladonna, Foxglove, Larkspur, Lily of the Valley, Nightshade, Oleander, Periwinkle, Rhododendron, Lantana, etc.)

3. Crime

Gangs in America, gang wars and criminal operations are financed by dealing marijuana. There is a crisis with drug lords and crime in Mexico threatening to undermine that nation’s stability and increasingly spilling over our borders. The majority of the revenue that finances the operations, bribery and crime networks of these Mexican drug lords is generated by marijuana.

Legalizing marijuana would slash the price, kill the black market and thus cripple gangs in the U.S. and drug lords in Mexico and South America overnight.

Of course, there will be powerful forces out to stop this proposition in CA, religious, right wing Republicans, pharmaceuticals and politicians who are more fearful of how supporting this bill could be used against them in elections.

Still, the time may have come for the people to resist the forces who have painted us into this corner. CA has taken the first step with medical marijuana and the horrors of potheads roaming the streets like Night of the Living Dead Heads, as predicted by some, never occurred.

All I can say is that if it does pass, I want to be at the official party celebrating that! Actually, those in neighboring states may get a contact high that night.

There’s been a big kerfuffle lately about cigarette smoking in Avatar. This issue has a long history.
Hollywood and cigarette smoking simply go hand in hand — more than you might ever imagine. It goes way, way beyond Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman in Casablanca.
Two massive industries grew up in lockstep in the early 20th century — advertising and cigarettes. They literally made one another. Cigarettes dominated the advertising market until the 1970s. Cigarettes could not have become the huge industry without advertising.
In 1900, according to “Cigarette Century” (A fascinating book; might be a bit dry for some folks), fewer than 10 percent of the population smoked cigars or pipes. Very, very few people smoked cigarettes. By 1940, 50 percent of men smoked, and by 1955, that number had grown to nearly 70 percent. Why? Advertising!
Advertising and Hollywood.

Watch any film from the 30s through the 50s. Cigarettes are as omnipresent as Fedoras, pulled punches and tan trenchcoats. They’re everywhere in hundreds of films. Hollywood bought into the idea that smoking was cool hook, line and sinker. And Hollywood helped teach several generations that smoking was cool and hip; and it did it for free. Not a nickel was paid to the studios for all that free advertising. What money the tobacco companies did spend were spent paying stars to promote cigarette brands.
Fast forward to the 1970s. The surgeon general had declared that smoking causes lung cancer, warnings were put on packs of cigarettes, cigarette advertising was banned on television. Newspapers stopped printing cigarette ads.
What did the tobacco companies resort to? There was one advertising niche they had yet to openly exploit.
Their old friend Hollywood.
Beginning in the late 1970s, cigarette companies began a stealth campaign right out of a Le Care spy novel to sneak cigarette smoking and cigarette branding into Hollywood movies. The first movie in which this was done? You not going to believe it.
Superman.
Yup. A PG-rated kid’s movie, seen by millions of kids. Philip Morris actually paid the studio to have Margot Kidder smoke like a chimney throughout the movie. Lois Lane never actually smoked in the comic book. This was a PG movie, marketed toward children. It was absolutely amoral. They did it again, in Superman II, and they added a fight scene with a tractor-trailer with “Marlboro” prominently displayed.
Over the next 20 years, tobacco companies paid Hollywood huge sums of money to insert smoking and branding into movies. And they specifically targeted movies being marketed to kids. Philip Morris was budgeting $2 million a year for product placement payouts to Hollywood studios. More than 130 movies over a 10-year period had smoking and product placement of Philip Morris cigarettes. BAT claimed that its products were shown in more than 500 Hollywood productions during this time, and they were actually paying individual actors to smoke their products on-screen. And the tobacco companies specifically focused much of their efforts on PG, PG-13 and even G-rated movies. They were going after new smokers. They didn’t give a damn about R-rated movies.
And Hollywood went right along with it. As part of the “Cigarette Papers” case, much of the evidence came out in the 1990s of the sordid dealings between Hollywood and Big Tobacco — of the millions upon millions paid to studios for secret smoking advertising. As part of the 1998 Master Settlement Agreement, Big Tobacco agreed that they would no longer pay movie studios for placement of their products.

And then a VERY weird thing happened. The amount of smoking shown in movies actually went UP after 1998. That’s right. UP. There were no longer millions of dollars in payments from Big Tobacco to Hollywood (Not as far as anyone knew, at least), but smoking scenes actually went up. In 2003-2004, 77 percent of PG-13, PG and G movies contained tobacco use.
What happened? Hollywood was still enamored with the archaic idea that cigarettes are hip and cool. This had nothing to do with cash payouts any longer. Hollywood just couldn’t quit cigarettes. They were hooked. They were stuck in the days of Bogart and Bergman.
In case you think this is a silly issue, remember, there is no more cigarette advertising on TV. There is very limited cigarette advertising in magazines anymore. Where is the biggest source of misinformation that smoking is cool and hip? Movies! An increasing number of studies started showing a direct cause and effect between “cool” smoking scenes in movies encouraging young teens to begin smoking. In some of these studies and surveys, kids said point-blank they started smoking because they wanted to be cool like some certain movie star.
Well, do-gooder busybodies like me started noting this bizarre situation and started pressuring, via letters, lobbying, etc., for the MPAA to start cracking down on the gratuitous smoking in PG and PG-13 films. Hollywood fought back, whining about “artistic freedom,” (Never mind the fact that any depiction of pot-smoking results in an automatic R rating). We started asking for an automatic R rating for inclusion of smoking scenes. Believe me, I have written dozens of letters to the MPAA. They have received tens of thousands similar letters.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a complete prude. I have no problem with smoking in R-rated movies. If you got ‘me, light ‘me. It’s the movies that are marketed to kids that drive me nuts when I see gratuitous smoking. I also am NOT in favor of fiddling with old movies to remove the smoking scenes (Some people in the smokers’ rights crowd have accused us do-gooders of wanting to do that. No one has ever seriously proposed that.). Smoking in movies from the 30s and 40s is all part of the historical context, which is fine with me. Sam Spade or Rick Blaine sucking on cigarette is as Americana as it gets.

I make the analogy of smoking to the F-bomb. There are very strict limits to using the F-bomb in PG-13 movies. You can use it once, in a non-sexual manner, and that’s it (OK, granted this is kind of a silly rule, but that’s what it is.). Studios know this. They know the rules, and they know how they want a movie marketed before the first day of principal photography, so they work around the rules. They do it with every movie. They don’t includes F-bombs if they want a PG-13 movie. If studios can avoid the F-bomb to keep the PG-13 rating, they can just as easily avoid pointless smoking scenes.
The MPAA compromised with the smoking guidelines, writing up a Byzantine set of rules that it takes a degree in law to follow. To sum up, smoking is still OK in PG and PG-13 movies if it’s set in historical context or if it’s not portrayed in a positive light. A movie like “Good Night and Good Luck,” is a good example. It takes place in the 1950s, when most people smoked like chimneys. (And seriously, I love that movie, but watching it actually makes my eyes feel gritty.). A movie like “Stranger than Fiction,” is another good example, in which a heavy smoker in the film wakes up every morning with a terrible smoker’s hack. These are both PG movies. Personally, I wanted stronger rules, but I’ll go along with this for the time being.

I’ll go along with it, because I think the rules will have a “chilling effect” of discouraging gratuitous and lazy smoking scenes in movies marketed to kids and teens. I’m a big believer in artistic freedom, believe me, I really am, but the “artistic freedom” argument from some Hollywood directors toward smoking is a bunch of bunk, in my opinion. First of all, 99 percent of the time, smoking scenes add absolutely nothing to the plot, nor to character development. They are simply an extremely lazy prop meant to convey “cool” or “rebellion” or some such nonsense. Leonardo Vicario is the best example of this. The guy is pushing 40, still looks 20, and smokes like a damn chimney in almost every movie he appears in because he apparently believes it makes him look tougher or more grown-up. I’ve never seen an actor rely so heavily upon a cigarette as a prop. Second of all, 90 to 95 percent of genuinely “artistic” movies (at least) are rated R anyway.
Remember, in the 1980s, Hollywood put out a bunch of teen movies depicting drug use and heavy drinking as just being part of wacky teen hijacks. Well, after MADD made a big stink about this (A lot bigger than us anti-tobacco types did), you don’t see drug use or heavy drinking in PG-13 movies anymore, at least not depicted in a positive light. Movies are a business as much, if not more, than art. If you want to make a movie with lots of booze and drugs, like “Superbad,” it’s going to be R-rated and you’re going to have to market it as an R movie.
Avatar got caught up in the middle of this MPAA change. One of the characters, Sigourney Weaver’s, was supposed to be a heavy smoker, but the MPAA changed its rules. Suddenly, they couldn’t include “pervasive” smoking scenes in Avatar and keep the PG-13 rating. If you pay attention in that movie, Weaver smokes some early in the movie, but midway through the film, she completely stops. They had to write all the smoking scenes out of the movie in mid-production or risk an R rating!
As an aside, if you haven’t seen it, I would recommend for an interesting take on smoking is “Constantine.” It is the most anti-smoking movie I’ve ever seen. It’s not a great flick (actually genuinely more scary than I thought it would be), but I love the subtle anti-smoking message in that movie. (Ironically, Constantine is R-rated, and a fairly hard R to boot.)
Another movie with a short, subtle anti-smoking scene is “Superman Returns.” In order to make amends for the beginning the era of cigarette product placement in movies, they added a little scene in which Superman keeps blowing out Lois’ lighter as she tries to light a cigarette. He looks at her lungs with his X-ray vision and tells her she has about 20 years left if she doesn’t stop smoking.

So, that is the sordid history of Hollywood and Big Tobacco. Hollywood has yet to kick the habit.
By the way, Humphrey Bogart died of esophagus cancer at the age of 57. Clark Gable died at 59 of a massive heart attack. Gary Cooper died at 60 of prostate and lung cancer. Audrey Hepburn died at 62 of cancer. Errol Flynn died at 50 of a massive heart attack.

The concept of the SOVEREIGN State of Israel is a VALID one… especially given the AGES old history of the persecution of the Jews as a way to DEFEND ourselves from those who would start another GENOCIDE against us (& don’t think for a MINUTE that there aren’t PLENTY of those still around)….

But “Zionism”.. after it was HIJACKED by a bunch of messianic troglodytes, took it WAY too far & started to liken this “sovereignty” to a blood feud… the (deserved) CHIP on Israels shoulder after the Holocaust seemed to have GRAFTED itself to the mindset of these hardliners.. things that need to be EXCISED from the soul of Israel once & for all.

The HARDLINERS’ juvenile contention that somehow Israel would be giving ANYTHING “back” as opposed to SHARING it is the kind in intractable mindset that has caused COUNTLESS GENERATIONS of innocents to suffer & die.. live their lives in FEAR & LOATHING & HOPELESSNESS…& it is the mindset that will end up DESTROYING it.

Enough.

This is only PERIPHERALLY a political problem.. it’s based almost ENTIRELY upon raw EMOTION.. the hardest thing to even DEFINE, no less debate & resolve… yet no solutions will stand the test of time if they are solely relegated to politics.

These new settlements.. in fact ALL SETTLEMENTS need to GO… & UNTIL then, ALL financial support the United States affords Israel must STOP… & we should BOYCOTT their products as well.

Israel AGREED to do this DECADES ago.. as well as their PROMISE to revert back to pre-1967 borders. They RENEGED.. & that is a SHANDA.

As a Jew who’s mother still sports numbers tattooed on her forearm, whose father (bless his soul) ran GUNS to Israel with Zimmel Reznik in the late 40′s, I FERVENTLY support the premise that The State of Israel MUST endure.

As a LIBERAL, I’m ASHAMED of some of the rhetoric.. some just simplistic.. some PLAINLY antisemitic by so-called “progressives” on some sites like The Huffington Post regarding Israel.

That said, I am VERY ASHAMED that the neoconservatives currently in power are THUGS who have committed atrocities in Gaza & the West Bank (turning Gaza into a GHETTO that can rival WARSAW)… & have treated the Palestinian People as WE had been treated in Germany.

The people of Israel MUST purge themselves of the same malignancy that WE had managed to do a year ago last November…. & they need to be afforded the SAME patience in doing so that WE were afforded… & I am THANKFUL for the stand that President Obama & Secretary of State Clinton have taken to put Bibi Netanyahu in his PLACE.

ALL of the Arab Nations are going to have to be MUCH more proactive in settling this dispute than they have done… the quasi-righteous indignation spouted by them regarding the Palestinians NEVER actually manifested as anything other than cynical, empty rhetoric..

For example, when Netanyahu is FINALLY bounced by Livni (she actually WON last time.. but Bibi pulled a “Bush” on her & stole it) the REAL process can restart.

Israel MUST return to pre-1967 borders, which means that the GOLAN HEIGHTS has to go back to SYRIA, who was controlling the territory when they attacked Israel. Like it or not, THEY have to have a dog in this fight as well… & allow the Palestinians to annex it as their own.

Gaza & the West Bank (along with Golan) should comprise the SOVEREIGN STATE of PALESTINE.

As much influence that the United States might have with Israel.. the ONE MAN in the region who is INDISPENSABLE is KING ABDULLAH of JORDAN… who is the ONLY PARTICIPANT that can make this work for ALL PARTIES.

In Islam, the Hashemite King of Jordan is the ONLY ruler in that region charged with the “Guardianship” over JERUSALEM…

NOT “Israel”…

NOT “Palestine”..

NOT the United States..

Israel MUST stop the childish notion that if they SHARE Jerusalem.. they ”lose” Jerusalem… & if it turns out to be the case that this is the ONLY barrier to a MEANINGFUL peace agreement, then they MUST compromise.

For me, Israel should once again adopt TEL AVIV as it’s Capitol.. Palestine should name Hebron theirs.. & Jerusalem should be designated an INTERNATIONAL CITY… Generally overseen by Jordan… with the disparate “zones” autonomously adjudicated by the different ethnicity’s that live in them.

At SOME point, for the good of Israel.. for the good of the region.. for the good of the WORLD, they will realize that “dominion” over what is no more than MORTAR, STONE, WOOD & DUST isn’t as important as their CHILDREN.

The animosities in the Mideast have been ongoing for EONS…

….but we should NEVER stop trying to END the INSANITY once & for ALL. .

Peace Now and this.

The chat continues here…

• 

  AdLib : Same here, this was a great edition tonight!

• 

  javaz : Fun times, and great broadening my thinking! Thank you!

• 

  PatsyT : Thanks AdLib

• 

  AdLib : Well…looks like it’s time to wrap Vox Populi for the night! The conversation continues at the AfterChat post, click here to go there: «link»

• 

  AdLib : Education, opportunity, a more equitable economy, the same things drive kids to gangs as drive kids to being terrorists.

• 

  javaz : They are having a civil war, and there’s nothing civil about it, in Mexico. And it is filtering over here, and we’ve got to somehow stop it, don’t you think? It’s a very dangerous game and it’s not like we don’t have enough to worry about, but they know that, and that’s why I so hope someone is on the ball.

• 

  PatsyT : Education could go a long way to combat the drug stuff

• 

  javaz : AdLib, yes, it’s for the money for either drugs or buying weapons.

• 

  AdLib : Night Boomer! And yum, pizza!

• 

  AdLib : javaz – Yes there are gangs and addressing gangs is a more complicated and systemic problem. But what allows them to grow and thrive is drug money. Cut that and you blunt their power and growth.

• 

  PatsyT : Boomer next time use a napkin

• 

  javaz : Good Night Boomer! It was so wonderful to see you again!

• 

  boomer1949 : Pizza is on me!

• 

  boomer1949 : Okay everyone, I turn into a pumpkin in less than ten minutes. I so dislike the differences in our time zones. Will see everyone tomorrow and for sure on Sunday.

• 

  PatsyT : Cages we don’t need no stinken cages !

• 

  javaz : AdLib, I so agree with you, but it goes even deeper than that. The criminal element kidnaps Mexican family members from here, be they legal or not, and it’s awful. Don’t you have that in California?

• 

  AdLib : Boomer – I see Obama as more of a moderate who was trying to work with corporations like Pharma and the Insurance Co.s instead of accepting that they are not good citizens who would ever work in good faith. I see corporations as wild animals that need to be caged to a degree or they will eventually devour you…and one shouldn’t take promises from wild animals as a reason to let them loose.

• 

  PatsyT : Javez That is so important to shine a light on Mexico -

• 

  AdLib : javaz – You are so right, Mexico is a powderkeg. As I’ve said before, the quickest and smartest thing we could do to instantly cut the finances sharply for the drug rings is legalize pot. SOmeone mentioned here at The Planet that it accounts for around 70% of their income. Without money, their power would be slashed.

• 

  boomer1949 : TRP — poof poof!

• 

  boomer1949 : I believe our President is and always has been a populist fighter. I’m not saying he wasn’t being courted to be otherwise, but I’m saying that maybe he listened to all of our ramblings and emails and noisemaking. You know? GWB was on autopilot with a puppet master up his ass. Mr. Obama has more brains, common sense, and a clue.

• 

  AdLib : Patsy – I think the banks holding back lending works for them in many ways, they can show higher assets to offset the losses they ahve and the losses they are no doubt continuing to hide. And it helps them keep the recovery from helping Americans and Obama, giving them more power.

• 

  PatsyT : Nighty Night TRP

• 

  KQuark : Adlib it never amazes me how short people’s memories are in this country.

• 

  javaz : KQ, another thing the Mexican drug cartels do is target homeowners of any race and creed that they know have guns. They break into homes and steal guns to sell on the black market, and seriously, Mexico is a problem that we are going to have to deal with. Cher did an article about it, but it’s the violence and inhumane treatment of their targets. We, the USA, we are going to have to somehow deal with that violence south of the border.

• 

  PatsyT : Hey AdLib how about the one that says – Banks are holding back funds to smaller banks to try to put Obama in bad shape – Said on the Ed Show this week

• 

  AdLib : Remember the simpler times when our biggest worries were whether our president lied about a blow job?

• 

  KQuark : Some sciency types are the funniest people I know. I’ll take a mad scientist over a bloody stiff suit banker any day.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : ~poof~

• 

  AdLib : Thanks TRP! Have a nice evening!

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Gonna take a powder all…need to rest for a bit…great Vox…thanks all

• 

  KQuark : javaz to me home invasion is the most abhorrent of crimes. We have that problem in the Atlanta area but thankfully not in my town.

• 

  boomer1949 : AdLib,

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I’ve had WAY too much cough medicine…woooo ~~~~

• 

  boomer1949 : I have a friend whose brother is a DEA Agent on the border in Southern CA.

• 

  AdLib : SOmeone ridiculous posted on Huffy today, can’t remember but I thought it was absurd.

• 

  PatsyT : KQ no fair your math/science guys are not supposed to be so funny

• 

  javaz : KQ, you know what’s a shame about Mexico? It’s so beautiful and if it weren’t for all the drug cartels and gangs and corruption, that they could take advantage of that. It freaks me out, because we have lots of home invasions, they target Mexicans living here, but there are times that they get the wrong house.

• 

  KQuark : They all act like they are experts when they don’t know shit.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I don’t think alot of those A-listers have gotten it yet…

• 

  KQuark : Pet peeve all the fucking A-listers Aryanna let’s post on Huffy. Give me a break.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : LMAO Adlib…

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : ..it was mine and I am ashamed…

• 

  AdLib : I have to admit, I do fantasize about punching Boehner in the kisser…and there being a white fist-shaped patch on his face while my fist is coated with a dark tan. Just a fantasy and a gag, I’m not a violent type but it would be a wish fulfillment to tag some of these guys.

• 

  KQuark : I don’t know which one was worse TRP.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : oooooh…that was baaad~

• 

  PatsyT : KQ LOLOLOL }

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Making Jewish jokes to his accountant?

• 

  KQuark : Screwing his nanny.

• 

  boomer1949 : TRP – where is Mel G. when you need him anyway?

• 

  PatsyT : TRP I know what you are saying I get so fired up

• 

  KQuark : javaz the border stuff scares me too, because Mexico can become a failed state.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I can barely even stand the site of Boehner…honest ly…he ranks up there with the one of 1st I’d like to …pinch….hard

• 

  AdLib : You know what I would like to see? A 2011 SOTU address by Obama coming down hard on corporate control of our democracy, economy and society and using the example of passing HCR and the banks destroying the economy to illustrate that and be a rallying cry. He should be the populist fighter against the interests that are working together to destroy his Presidency and the lives of the majority of Americans. If he’s unsure that he’ll get a 2nd term, make the 1st term catch fire and the 2nd term may follow.

• 

  PatsyT : Javez AZ freaks me out

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : The Boss can carry the flag…I’ll bash the skulls….

• 

  KQuark : I swear Boehner wants to BE Obama.

• 

  KQuark : The skinny bastard is tougher than he looks.

• 

  boomer1949 : TRP – Boehner is such a, a, faux tan dick. Plain and simple. I live in OH — thank God he isn’t my Congressional Rep., I think I would have done terrible things if he were. Not a threat, just a fantasy.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Yes, ..my dad has propert in El Paso…scary stuff, javez

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : agreed…and I’d follow that man into battle myself….

• 

  KQuark : He’s the only Dem that can deliver a “Braveheart” speech.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : …glaring at everyone and pointing his finger!

• 

  PatsyT : KQ Good Question

• 

  javaz : For anyone here living on the border of Mexico, does the drug wars freak you out? You know that they’re already here, right? There was the California fire started from a pot crop, right? And then there’s stories about Mexican cartels planting on state land – ours – such as in Yosemite? I want and am all for immigration, so this is not about that. This is about the violence down in Mexico, and at the border towns. These people are gruesome and worse than the Taliban and Al Qaida as they torture their victims first. Am I wrong in fearing that that violence is coming here?

• 

  KQuark : Can Obama be in the chamber during the vote?

• 

  AdLib : TRp – Gotcha!

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : …–see–…a.. .

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I want to a fucking William Wallace Braveheart speech to the Dems to rally around for no other reason than to shame the GOP into fucking submission…

• 

  AdLib : As to Kucinich, I think his strategy was to hold out long enough to bring the kind of attention the conservatives got for holding out, to Progressive interests. I think he was prepared to pivot but wanted to be a loud voice for the policies and respect Progressives want.

• 

  PatsyT : AdLib I want to see the MSM called out for that especially FOX. How many other Presidents have had a 24/7 cable channel dedicated to their destruction ? I am amazed that Obama has held up so well and think he will triumph over all of this !

• 

  KQuark : Anyone notice how Stupak is the new darling of Faux News now.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Haha~..I know Adlib…I forgot my emoticon…LOL

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Like I said,….balls.

• 

  AdLib : TRP – That UFO thing was a setup by the MSM to get rid of him. He isn’t a UFO nut at all, it was a tangential conversation. Just as the MSM trashed Howard Dean over a yell. A yell! This is one shallow populace to let such things decide the course of their nation.

• 

  KQuark : TRP Kucinich got it right. He sees the big picture with this vote and I commend him for it. I know it’s against some of his deepest principles but I think it takes more courage for what he’s doing now.

• 

  AdLib : Patsy – DOn’t forget that all the terrorists who are being held or have been convicted…all criminals and those in the military and Senior Citizens and disabled, etc. are getting socialized medical care. It’s really such a ridiculous lie to scream about government takeovers and socialism, the MSM are traitors to Americans by supporting these lies.

• 

  KQuark : I was not in school yet when Medicare and Medicaid passed. This is the biggest domestic program in my life so far. No matter what some Dems say this is the biggest liberal bill in decades. If it fails liberalism goes down with it. It does not matter if the bill is perfect or not this is a defining moment for the direction of the country.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I love Kucinich…he admits to viewing UFOs….balls.

• 

  PatsyT : Boehner spends too much time with the devil hence the tan

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Well, I’ve never seen so many Dems turn into milquetoasts at the site of Boehner in my life….it’s embarrassing….

• 

  PatsyT : There are too many things that have not been emphasized- enough like health care in Iraq

• 

  javaz : AdLib, once the vote gets rolling, and it’s probably already a done deal because winning over Kucinich was a huge deal. I really seriously doubt that any Dems will vote NO, unless they are total assholes. And seriously, it really wouldn’t surprise me if a Republican or 2, votes YES.

• 

  AdLib : KQ – And America loves a winner. If Dems are the ones who won this tough of a fight against so many bad guys like insurance companies, that’s a big plus to campaign on.

• 

  KQuark : TRP and Adlib I think we all feel the same way on the vote. This vote defines whether you are a Dem or not.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : That was great Patsy…1st time I’ve EVER heard anyone use the war as an example of wasted money…good stuff

• 

  PatsyT : Who saw the Rep from OHIO today that turned to Yes He said he had been in Iraq when they flew a Billion or some such amount to the people of Iraq so they would have health care – so why no us? I love that guy !

• 

  AdLib : If you play poker, you know the term, “betting into your hand”. Yes, there are possibilities that HCR doesn’t pass but with the hand we’re holding, I would press my bet big time. They have to pass this or it will be disaster for all Dems and Americans. And momentum is way in our favor now. I’m betting heavy on this and I don’t do that lightly.

• 

  KQuark : What I don’t understand is how Dems don’t realize if they ALL vote yes they ALL get political cover. The voters like a show of solidarity and strength in this country.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Right Adlib. I think to myself, Well…if you’re a Dem and trying to save your hide for THIS administration, what do they think is going to happen with the next…and the next…etc…The y either fight hard NOW on principle or lie down and blow away….I’d rather go down swingin’…

• 

  AdLib : What bewilders me is that any Dem holdouts will be assuring minority status within a couple of elections for the Dems. It’s no fun to be in the minority, as the behavior of the Repubs shows. They want to lose their control? And their seat as people turn to Repubs? It’s crazy to me, no vision at all.

• 

  KQuark : Tell be about it Patsy. I think I wrote my first article on HCR almost a year ago now.

• 

  javaz : Boomer! Me too. Never say never is my motto.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Ditto, KQuark

• 

  boomer1949 : AdLib, personally, I will be surprised if it doesn’t pass. However, I’ve been around long enough to never say never.

• 

  PatsyT : HITO All the Best

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Agreed adlib, failure equals the end of the America i thought I might enjoy living in….

• 

  KQuark : I think there is still a decent chance it won’t pass and the odds for passage will go down a little before the vote.

• 

  javaz : Good night HITO, and don’t be a stranger.

• 

  AdLib : Night HITO, check in on Sunday, should be lively around here!

• 

  PatsyT : KQ This has been a journey I think back months to HP Wow look at how long this has been going on.

• 

  javaz : AdLib, I agree with you 100%.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I just wish someone would start taking the ‘pairs’ from the Rethugs

• 

  HITO : Good night kids. I have thoroughly enjoyed myself this evening. I love posting on the fly. Thanks everyone and see you soon…as soon as I can with all this shit to do. Yeah, X already moved out so the house sale is squarely on my shoulders.

• 

  AdLib : IMO, the Dem Party will have its back broken for a decade at least if this vote fails. The faith and confidence of Dems in their party and pols would be greatly damaged. Who here would not have to summon a great deal of energy to work as hard as they have been for the Dems if they prove that they just can’t come through on things. They HAVE to pass this and I strongly believe they will.

• 

  javaz : Does anyone else think that we are going to overturn Roe v Wade? For the first time, I think it’s very possible. What do you think?

• 

  boomer1949 : OH-IO up by 10 pts.

• 

  KQuark : javaz I wish Pelosi would give a pair to Reid.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I think there is a 65/35 split on passage…IMO

• 

  boomer1949 : AdLib, me too. “Off the table” really pissed me off.

• 

  PatsyT : Something I love about Pelosi is that my girls get to see a Strong Woman in charge !

• 

  boomer1949 : HITO – kid check luv it. Remember those days well.

• 

  KQuark : Patsy I feel like I have not slept all week.

• 

  javaz : AdLib, Pelosi grew a pair, or so it seemed, since she might’ve had them all along. Oh, I could not stand her for the longest time, but I am very impressed with her now, and I like her. She finally grew a pair.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I am so on the fence about its passage….

• 

  KQuark : Night HITO don’t be a stranger.

• 

  HITO : TRP: Thanks! I only have to clean out every closet this weekend and clean every wall/window/surf ace for the great inspection of realtors next week. Sigh.

• 

  boomer1949 : Night bito. See you tomorrow!

• 

  KQuark : Bito take care!

• 

  AdLib : Does anyone here think HCR won’t pass on Sunday?

• 

  PatsyT : KQ I am with you !! This is making me crazy I have moved carpools to orchestra practice around and cleared the day !

• 

  KQuark : You know you’re my favorite boomer but don’t tell anyone else.

• 

  boomer1949 : My Congressman is a Repug and hopeless. All I’ve ever gotten from him in a reply is a regurgitation of the GOP Mantra. It’s hopless trying to appeal to him — Patrick Tiberi (R-OH). Clues?

• 

  javaz : Hah! HITO, you are poet and didn’t know it!

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : ooops…sorry wrong nite-nite…offe r always stands HITO

• 

  AdLib : Night bito! Feel good!

• 

  KQuark : I’m going to be a wreck by Sunday. I don’t know about anyone else. This is bigger than the election for me personally.

• 

  AdLib : javaz – I was upset at Pelosi in 2006 when the Dems won Congress and instantly declared impeachment was off the table, they couldn’t stop the Iraq war as promised and on and on with broken promises. As we headed into 2008, I put all that aside and in fact was very pleased at how strongly Pelosi was supporting Obama from the primary forward.

• 

  HITO : Good night Bito from Hito.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : email if you’d like HITO…I like to chat

• 

  PatsyT : Night Bito

• 

  javaz : Good night, b’ito, and sweet dreams.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Good thinking, Adlib…that might just be the angle they’re going for…let the Right stab in the dark…

• 

  HITO : I’m here. Sorry kid check upstairs. I ran.

• 

  bitohistory : G’night Kids. Take care my friends. peace

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I DO NOT know why I still have a weird feeling about Pelosi…I mean,….I dunno….maybe a personality thing…I bet she can get really….mean.. .Haha~

• 

  javaz : HITO? Are you still here?

• 

  AdLib : TRP – I think they’re pretty much there but if they’re smart, they won’t mention names or say who they may have so the Repubs and Insurance corps don’t know which few to pour all their resources on.

• 

  boomer1949 : KQ, yes we’re all here. Yes we are. However, I never would’ve known about the Planet had it not been for HITO. Once I came here, I saw all of the folks who I identified with “over there” and then suddenly disappeared. I’m glad I found everyone because I knew I wasn’t losing my old and feeble mind before its time.

• 

  PatsyT : AdLib and KQ Now your cooking with Crisco!

• 

  javaz : AdLib, and anyone else, but didn’t you hate Pelosi for awhile there in the beginning? I really like her now, do you? And I still like Harry Reid, even though no one else seems to like him. I think he’s sort of like a Jimmy Carter, and doesn’t get credit when credit is deserved.

• 

  AdLib : Patsy – KQ had the great suggestion that we embed a live feed in an article on Sunday so we can live blog and watch here.

• 

  KQuark : TRP their arms were hurting from being twisted. It’s hardball time. The smiles come later.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Adlib, agreed….I just thought we were around 208 or so….

• 

  PatsyT : Hey should we have a party of sorts during the vote ?

• 

  AdLib : TRP – I’d ignore any counts from anyone, especially Fox and CNN.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Jeebus, I thought we were closer than that…Now they’ve said that Pelosi just left a meeting with some pretty pissed looking pro-choice reps….hmmmmm

• 

  KQuark : TRP I heard they were at 200 the beginning of the week.

• 

  AdLib : javaz – Yes, I am as certain as one can be without something having happened yet, that HCR will pass on Sunday. I think Obama and Pelosi have made clear to Dems, this is do or die. If this bill fails, the Dems are failures, the Obama presidency will be a failure and they will definitely be the minority party again very soon because they would have no argument for being in power again. Obama wouldn’t stick his neck out like this if he wasn’t pretty certain.

• 

  javaz : Patsy, I know it, and hate the political drama. It really is bullshit.

• 

  bitohistory : j’avaz

• 

  PatsyT : This Drama keeps up the ratings. . .

• 

  KQuark : We’re all here not that’s the important thing.

• 

  javaz : I thought that someone posted earlier somewhere that FOX was reporting that they had the votes! If FOX reports it, you know, it has to be true, right? LMAO

• 

  HITO : Choice: Been there too. We have to support our younger women, they don’t always get that from their home environment, hence why the crisis occurred to begin with possibly.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : CNN just announced that they’re at 200 YES…?….Does that sound right?

• 

  boomer1949 : And HITO – email is always open.

• 

  KQuark : Realistically I don’t think another big bill passes before the midterms. They are closer than people think.

• 

  boomer1949 : Sorry HITO, I disagree. You invited me and then you bailed. Jeeze sink or swim boom.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Financial reform will stymie both parties as they both have their hands in deep pockets with that…

• 

  javaz : AdLib, do you believe that HCR will pass?

• 

  KQuark : bito like you said one or two smaller jobs bills first then regulatory reform.

• 

  boomer1949 : OT USCB 17 OH-IO 30! Go Bucks!

• 

  AdLib : CL – I agree, the public would strongly support and approve of Dems going after serious reforms on the banks. That’s one of the things they’re really pissed off about…nothing fas changed! Banks can still do exactly what they did to destroy the economy AND they were given our tax money AND they use it to pay themselves bonuses and lobby our government to serve them instead of taxpayers. This is a hugely winning issue, only Repub pols have any sympathy for banks (who still aren’t really lending!).

• 

  bitohistory : What is the consensus here Next big bill is financial reform.

• 

  KQuark : javaz that is horrible.

• 

  HITO : Boomer, you cutie, I am not why you’re here…you are. You were ready to move on. And you did damn good.

• 

  javaz : HITO, I’ve missed everything that you’ve been saying, but from reading the comments back to you, you know me and you are my friend. You can get my email from Monk, and write me anytime, but trust me, girlfriend, I am crazy as the day is long!

• 

  boomer1949 : I’ve dumped my banks and gone to a prepay debit card. Keeps me out of trouble and the banks out of my wallet.

• 

  HITO : Javaz, shit that is one scary item. Making a note to google that later. What the fuck?

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Right, HITO

• 

  choicelady : HITO – very solid policy. When I was taking women into clinics, we watched to make sure there was no coercion on any level. When women choose freely – even girls – they are healthier mentally and emotionally.

• 

  HITO : TRP: Agreed. Raging or being very vocal in groups gives them that feeling they are smart, even though they sound dumb as shit. I find it hard to be polite around that.

• 

  KQuark : Adlib I know completely. I just think raising taxes is so unpopular that you can’t put the genie all the way back in the bottle.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Agreed, CL.

• 

  boomer1949 : HITO -email is always open my dear. If it weren’t for you, I wouldn’t be here.

• 

  javaz : What does everyone think of Utah’s new law that makes miscarriages reviewed as possible crime? God help us. I feel some times like we’re in Saudi Arabia, and yes, I know that’s wrong as their laws when it comes to women are abhorrent, but do you know what I mean? Why is it in the 21st century in the United States of America, are women still fighting their rights?

• 

  PatsyT : Good to hear HITO

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I just think people are more apt to rage and fury over anything, especially tea baggers, etc…it makes them feel that they’re PART of something and important. They can’t speak on quantum physics, yet taxes….oh boy you bet…everyone’ s an expert….

• 

  choicelady : Rarest – I think ordinary people can see it as a matter of economic justice. In the 30s there was huge rage against the banks for their insolvency. I think most ordinary people today really do care, especially if their banks act in harmful ways, but if their bank has a convenient ATM, that can and often does over-ride anything. We are awfully soft as a people.Still I think people want justice!

• 

  KQuark : patsy

• 

  HITO : Patsy, no worries. 25 years with X, but I have amazing kids, that was the best part. Time for the next stage (3) for me. It’s kinda exciting.

• 

  AdLib : KQ – The top tax rates in the 1950′s was 91%. Isn’t that the era the Ooze-Beck-istani ans want to go back to? In the 60′s and 70′s it was 70%, in the 80′s it was 50% and then when Reagan got his bill passed, they were slashed to 28%. Coincidentally, that’s when our deficit exploded.

• 

  bitohistory : Smell like pure Rove to me KQ! Atwater lives!

• 

  PatsyT : KQ New Day – New Lie That should be their motto

• 

  KQuark : bito I don’t think people connect the bailouts with regulatory reform to be honest. I think Americans are just that dumb.

• 

  KQuark : What does everyone think about this bogus “doctor fix” memo?

• 

  bitohistory : TRP, not to sure about that many are riled about the bailouts. and if the R’ support them???

• 

  PatsyT : HITO sorry you have had a bad time Hope that is over for you

• 

  choicelady : javaz – I think it matter a whole lot WHERE one is, and that IS a fact! CA, MA, NY – states with embedded choice support are a far cry from the South or AZ or other RW states. I would NOT disagree there!

• 

  KQuark : TRP I agree regulatory reform is just not an issue that people are passionate about, save for some reactionary anger.

• 

  PatsyT : I don’t think they have made enough of how this bill is going to be a job creator

• 

  HITO : Patsy, agreed on the demmen control. My X was all about mind control unfortunately. AND I have raised my daughter to prevent the first mistake of getting pregnant until she is ready. But if it happens, she controls her body no one else.

• 

  choicelady : AdLib – could not agree more! People forget that in our most flush period from 1940-73, taxes WERE that high, and people and the nation prospered. We have seen that tax cuts produce no jobs or economic growth, only bigger purchases of fewer things when the rich have it all. Scripture handed me the best line: From those to whom much is given, much is required. I had one bozo say that’s just Marxism, leading me to point out that was written 4000 years before Marx, and who’da thunk the Bible was commie?

• 

  KQuark : javaz access to reproductive care is horrible and is only getting worse in this country.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : People…the great unwashed…don’ t give a flip about regulatory reform..they just need to know that they keep the status quo….rock the fucking boat and you’re swimming…I swear

• 

  javaz : oops, meant off topic, but women’s rights are so very important to me and yeah, it’s personal.

• 

  boomer1949 : OH TRP – please don’t get me started on pay; a whole other can of worms.

• 

  KQuark : 50% sure. I don’t know about 70%.

• 

  javaz : ChoiceLady, we’re losing ground right and left when it comes to reproductive rights. They’ve limited abortion to such a point that it’s nearly impossible now. We’ll talk when we’re done here because I don’t want to go over topic too much, okay?

• 

  boomer1949 : Try to get that past the mods at HP…

• 

  HITO : Javaz, sorry, I was trying to be funny.

• 

  boomer1949 : Torll men, HITO are Stepford husbands.

• 

  KQuark : TRP that’s where I see the teabaggers and the GOP parting ways is on regulatory reform.

• 

  AdLib : CL – The Dems should help rescue the economy by raising income tax on the wealthiest hlaf a percent to 70% or more. I just read a stat that as of 2006, the CBO said that only .64% of Americans have a net worth over $1 million. 99.36% of Americans are not millionaires. So tax that fraction of people, the billionaires, bankers and hedge fund managers to repair the damage they did to our economy and use that as a way to help distribute the public’s money back to them.

• 

  choicelady : Rarest – the greatest gift women give men is to speak freely in front of them.

• 

  bitohistory : Agreed CL, the R’s are saying some stupid things about stopping the banksters. That will lose them a lot of votes if they stop that reform.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I have no male heirs…my family bloodline ENDS with me….cool, huh?

• 

  choicelady : javaz – I also am past the need but worked for 20 years for the right and for women. I escorted women in (and sometimes out) and care a lot. I think we are NOT losing here. I think we are actually slowly regaining ground we had lost under Bush. I am actually OK with the Hyde Amendment because it takes away tax martyrdom from the religious right and keeps choice personal and private. I do want the Capps or Nelson amendment and NOT Stupid – uh – Stupak’s which is horrid, but if we have that, we’ve regained ground.

• 

  boomer1949 : javax, I have two daughters and 3 granddaughters.. .I think I’ve said this before, but would I or could I for myself? I doubt it. However, it’s not my place to decide for someone else. That’s the way I’ve always framed it. Me is my choice; theirs is theirs.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : How on earth women can still have any kind respect for men in this country when they still won’t even pay you equal pay is beyond me…it seems…Medieval

• 

  javaz : HITO, I do get your drift, but must say that I’ve been in an abusive relationship, 2 of them in fact, and I’m not proud of that – that I was so young and dumb and lacking in self-esteem that I allowed men to do that to me. My husband saved my life, and I mean that literally, so women’s issues are so very important to me.

• 

  KQuark : ChoiceLady I also think consumer protections are a base concern. This problem would not have been this bad if so many people were not talked into loans they could not afford.

• 

  HITO : I will restate: troll men want to control procreation, makes them feel more God like.

• 

  PatsyT : HITO Dem men are better at control – just saying

• 

  choicelady : bito and KQ – I do think financial reform is next. I think the pushback from the armchair liberals is that if we leave the hedge fund/derivative wheeler dealers out of it, we have sold our souls. All we really need are the missing firewalls we had under Glass-Steagall. So long as commercial, individual, and community banking is protected from their glomming onto our money and so long as they have to take their own risk and losses, we will have done the right thing. Then the high rollers can play, and we can ignore them. We cannot allow pension and other public interest funds to invest in those risky media, but why shouldn’t Paris Hilton play that game. Oh – there should be big taxes on winnings though…

• 

  AdLib : javaz, what’s needed is a pure pro-choice bill that counteracts the erosion of that right that’s taken place over the years and advanced by the HCR bill.

• 

  KQuark : HITO you are on tonight.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Did it just get hot in here or is just HITO?

• 

  PatsyT : Javez I have three daughters and I want that right to be there no matter what.

• 

  KQuark : It always irks me that it’s mostly MEN that want to restrict a woman’s reproductive rights.

• 

  HITO : Javaz, I’ve never met a dem man that wanted to control my body … unless I asked him to control my body, if you get my drift.

• 

  boomer1949 : Ah yes HITO, but no chocolate tonight. Just the Merlot.

• 

  AdLib : What have the Dems got to lose at this point? The polls show them having a rough time in Nov either way, why not vote for the strongest provisions? That’s the only thing that can improve their chances, campaigning on being impotent ain’t a winning slogan.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Chocolate was my gateway drug…..

• 

  javaz : To whoever, but I feel, as a woman, that I’m giving up a lot my rights to choose, and I am an older woman and have no worries any longer in that department. But I was one of the very young women that worked so hard for the right to choose, and I just hate it that women are losing. Dammit. Why can’t men accept women and let women have control over their lives and bodies? This is the United States of America, and I want men to stay out of MY womb. God Bless America, and may God smite the MEN that want to control me.

• 

  KQuark : HITO

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Adlib…could you imagine…I swear they’re slow enough to fall for it…lol

• 

  bitohistory : C’lady Good rundown in the wonk room on what’s next and votes.

• 

  HITO : Boomer, be careful, Chocolate and Merlot can spell migraine in my world.

• 

  choicelady : Oh wow – yes boomer. Wow.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Doesn’t some Merlot have a choco nose?

• 

  KQuark : Is gluten Latin for flavor?

• 

  AdLib : TRP, you just came up with a great idea! On the next big bill, Pelosi should declare it to be Opposite Day so a vote of “no” from Repubs means yes and if they vote “yes” campaign ads can be made to say they voted “yes” on a pro-choice bill!

• 

  choicelady : Patsy – chocolate cures all. Absolutely ALL.

• 

  boomer1949 : Chocolate & Merlot. What a combination.

• 

  KQuark : It also depends on what people think the future is next year is not the future to me. I’m looking 5-10-20 years down the road on HC.

• 

  PatsyT : Bito that is going to be epic

• 

  choicelady : We were on our way to my pre-birthday dinner of a gluten free pizza (actually delicious when you’re pizza deprived) and wondering since the reconciliation bill AND the amendment have not been voted on – what will prevail tomorrow and Sunday? This is so Byzantine I’m losing what’s left of my sanity!

• 

  boomer1949 : CL – Ever heard the phrase DeColores? I was hook, line, and sinker.

• 

  bitohistory : The R’s are lining up with the banksters so finacil reform may be the next BIG bill

• 

  PatsyT : I have great faith in Chocolate CL

• 

  KQuark : I meant to address your comment Bito.

• 

  AdLib : Let’s not forget, there is already a provision, if it isn’t killed, by Bernie Sanders that Federally funds single payer or public options per state starting in 2017. So single payer is structured into this bill. Not to mention, if the current wording in the reconciliation bill survives starting a Public Option right away.

• 

  KQuark : Yeah I think that would be the next thing as well. I guess I just was thinking about larger bills.

• 

  choicelady : Boomer – nothing better than a recovered religious person. Now you can get down to the good stuff of faith, mysteries of life, and chocolate.

• 

  boomer1949 : TRP – yep Faith over Medicine. And it’s God’s will so many untreated believers died?

• 

  javaz : B’ito, good to see you, but I do believe that everyone and I mean every person in the entire world knows that the Republican Party for the next 3 years will vote NO on everything. I also have hope, yes, I do, and think that there might be some Republicans that start voting YES once HCR passes this Sunday! Yee-Haw!

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Perhaps we can get Pelosi to enact a Deem and Pass rule to change ‘NO’ to YES and then the Repubs will pass everything…

• 

  choicelady : Hi Patsy!

• 

  KQuark : javaz look at S-CHIP in most states it went from 200% of the poverty line to over 350% in some states. The Feds can add the PO at any time they have the votes now, not a super majority 51 votes.

• 

  PatsyT : Hi CL !!

• 

  HITO : Adlib, loved that irony can be ironic take on the RWChristians. Very nice.

• 

  AdLib : I think the next bills are apparent, Financial reforms, immigration and more jobs legislation.

• 

  choicelady : A tie? Man are YOU living in the Dark Ages dear! Most of the folks I know go to church in jeans! I think it does not matter.

• 

  bitohistory : KQ, I think the next bills will be incremental jobs bills, make the R’s vote NAH.

• 

  choicelady : boomer – no need for sorry, though I may be dim, I can’t see a problem.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Hi CL…well now that you’re here, do I have to go put on a tie?…lol

• 

  boomer1949 : CL – only when I’m bored. It amazes me I used to follow that stuff.

• 

  KQuark : Boomer I have all those channels including the shopping channels off my list of favorites. Thank God for TiVo.

• 

  choicelady : Hey AdLib – you, too!

• 

  choicelady : TBN? You poor dear! At least it’s not CBN – that’s even worse.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : AC 360 is discussing ‘Faith over Medicine’…may be that’s what the Right would like to implement…

• 

  AdLib : Hey Choicelady! Nice to see you!

• 

  boomer1949 : Yo CL – sorry.

• 

  javaz : KQ, and everyone, I haven’t wanted anything as badly as I’ve wanted this HCR to pass because it will truly make the GOP implode. And I do agree with those that say you’ve for pass something in order to make it better. Yee-Haw! – that was my Howard Dean yell! LMAO

• 

  KQuark : HITO I agree. They are so far in the minority now they will turn on each other.

• 

  AdLib : javaz – I remember a comedian joking that you will never hear RW Christians quote…Christ. They have to twist like pretzels to avoid discussing the person their religion is named after because he stood opposed to just about everything they stand for. SOmetimes irony can be pretty ironic.

• 

  boomer1949 : You CL!

• 

  boomer1949 : Sorry — Trinity Broadcast Network. The producers behind Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and PTL.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : HITO- You can always email me if you need to talk…Our situation is so similar it seems…it’s eerie. «email»

• 

  choicelady : Hello all – sorry to be late. LOVE the topic because I think I continue to sense that we are so mired in anger and hate that no, very little credit will be given to Obama and Congress for a long time. And that, I fear, means the snotty armchair critics will sit it out come November.

• 

  HITO : Adlib, you’re speaking to the progressive purists from FireDogLake? I think they will implode, no? Well at least look very foolish.

• 

  boomer1949 : AdLib, the Purists will have TBN. Have you ever watched TBN? I tend to float to it during PBS pledge week here in OH-IO — just for fun of course. If nothing else, it’s quite entertaining and only because I’ve been one of those sitting in the audience. The pink haired lady is over the top.

• 

  KQuark : The next step is immigration and regulatory reform. I fear a real energy policy this time around is too heavy a lift for now.

• 

  HITO : Mayber later on we could discuss the effects of blogging on our relationships? Is that an allowable topic?

• 

  AdLib : HITO – WHat I’m saying is that the Dem purists who have turned on Obama and HCR had that alone holding them together as a group, dividing them from other Dems. With that gone, what do they have to rally around to keep being purists?

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Doughnuts for all!

• 

  javaz : AdLib, please tweet God and ask Him to do whatever He does and pass this bill. It is what His Son would have wanted, no?

• 

  KQuark : Gotcha Adlib and I agree about the sheep.

• 

  PatsyT : KQ My hubby and I are onliners as well but also have the TV on during the day I tune into MSNBC and get bothered by the so called bias that is not there.

• 

  HITO : Adlib: Jesus. Hope I read your purist remark correctly.

• 

  javaz : HITO, I’ll never forget the night that you said on here that you call your husband X. LMAO It still makes me laugh. God love you, for doing the right thing and getting the hell out.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : HITO – Everyone here will tell you I’m right there with you…I’m sitting IN the house that’s up for sale…~blech~

• 

  KQuark : Adlib that’s also the argument people are making that legislation won’t get better over time. Well duh if you vote in these reactionary Party of No Republicans it won’t get better but progressive Dems need to look at this as an opportunity to mold Dems in office more.

• 

  AdLib : So, what will the purists have left to hold them together?

• 

  boomer1949 : HITO – been there done that and have a couple of those damn tee shirts. You have my email, I’m here with an ear.

• 

  AdLib : KQ – What I mean is that their sheep will stray away. Their crowds will not clamor for their rabble rousing. They may spout all kinds of reactionary crap but the majority will not pay much attention to it.

• 

  javaz : That’s my number reason for supporting this bill, AdLib, is that the Republican Party is toast and good riddance to them assholes.

• 

  HITO : Javaz, he’s not an X yet. Separation agreement ink still drying, not filed. House goes on market next week. And I am very OK…better than I’ve been in 10 years. Thanks Javaz.

• 

  bitohistory : Quite type AdLib

• 

  KQuark : HITO I get all my news online where you can chose what sources you trust, good idea.

• 

  PatsyT : HITO you are not missing much (TV)

• 

  AdLib : So, the GOP moves farther right, is the party of taking away healthcare, abortion and equal rights to gays. SOunds like a great recipe for growth. Once the recession is over and people go back to voting on policy instead of emotions, the GOP will be more minimized than ever.

• 

  javaz : HITO, are you okay? Does it have something to do with Mr. X?

• 

  bitohistory : I think it will also Patsy, my point is why/what is with the purists

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Haha–What was the line from the Joker in Batman…”This town needs an enema!”…that ‘s what will happen to DC if this fails…

• 

  KQuark : Now Adlib I’m not sure about HP and Firebaggers going down but they will represent fewer numbers than it seems.

• 

  boomer1949 : HITO – at God’s fingertips as it were.

• 

  HITO : KQuark: I’m moving to an apartment in a month or two. I have already only made provisions there for tv hookups for my teenaged son and daughter. Internet access for me is priority one.

• 

  AdLib : Hey bito! Didn’t see you come in! Good to see ya!

• 

  PatsyT : Bito I meant this will pass

• 

  javaz : AdLib, okay, I missed that, but I was just saying! LMAO, I just love this site!

• 

  AdLib : KQ – I’m with you on that, the Dems will lose seats via the anti-incumbent fervor, the recession is still continuing and if you have no job, you’re still mad. But Repubs are incumbents too, they could trade seats with Dems too.

• 

  KQuark : HITO I banned most cable news and after I did I felt much better. The constant angst in the media is just useless.

• 

  PatsyT : Bito I think they will make it I see this happening

• 

  HITO : Bito: Then the revolution will start…just a matter of time. People cannot take more strife.

• 

  boomer1949 : HITO – if I watch anything it’s PBS and I listen to NPR daily. That’s it. Bring the leftover paper home from work and hang out here in the pm. Stewart & Colbert (although comedy oriented) are great sources. Actually get more newsiness from them than the “journalists”.

• 

  bitohistory : What happens to the Dems if it fails?

• 

  AdLib : Hito – Actually, my keyboard does go to God’s ears.

• 

  KQuark : Adlib if HCR passes I only see a positive dynamic from Dems like you do. But I would not ignore the anti-incumbency vibe from independents.

• 

  AdLib : javaz – I was quoting the editorial by those RW loons, those aren’t my words.

• 

  HITO : Adlib, from your keyboard to God’s ears…I hope so.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I bet if The Lion were still here, he’s be having more than back-room ‘negotiations’ …I’m ashamed FOR Ted.

• 

  AdLib : I think the Hamshers and Huffingtons of the Democratic Purity League will be on a fast slope downwards after HCR passes. They will look even moreso like small minded failures, losers who have no raison d’etre now. They will fade away I think and Dem solidarity will grow.

• 

  javaz : AdLib, not all seniors are against it. I think you may be wrong about that, as we get AARP and Retiree bulletins, and it’s a big thing for seniors. Because they are hurting, too, and they are going to see their prescription drug prices fall. Plus another thing, large corporations have cut back so much with what they cover and more of a burden is placed on retirees when they have to buy the supplemental insurance with their Medicare.

• 

  boomer1949 : See AdLib – Bachman and King would be a big STOP sign to me and I would read no further.

• 

  HITO : Boomer: MSNBC was pissing me off. I do miss Washington Journal in the morning though… so many asshole Repubs calling in at once.

• 

  PatsyT : AdLib they can’t lie forever and get away with it- That emperor has no clothes on!

• 

  AdLib : KQ – I think Dems will be very motivated to vote in Nov, 2012 and moving forward with the threat of the GOP killing HCR and the rest of Obama’s agenda. We’ve all been patiently waiting for HCR to pass so the many other important things can finally get focused on, we’re not giving that away!

• 

  bitohistory : We are on the same page KQ

• 

  boomer1949 : HITO – I don’t watch that much nor do I have cable. Caight it today on the web only because Khirad suggested. TV is a huge pain in the ass these days.

• 

  KQuark : Adlib I heard some of the same talking points from Hamster.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : I swear I read somewhere that the numbers weren’t all that grim for November Dems…even in a worst case scenario it appeared that they would might still hold the majority…

• 

  KQuark : Bito don’t get me started they manipulate the facts just as badly as the right.

• 

  boomer1949 : TRP or conscience. The aholes actually sleep at night.

• 

  HITO : Boomer, I haven’t watched TV in 6 months. I read it or I’m ignorant.

• 

  AdLib : Here’s what you’ll hear from the RW loons after HCR passes. this is from an editorial today by Michelle Bachman and Steve King: By now, most Americans know the dirty details of Obamacare. It raises taxes. It will force Americans to pay for other people’s abortions. It will put the government in charge of more than 18 percent of our private sector economy. It may provide benefits to up to 6.1 million illegal immigrants. It diminishes liberty and gives government more power. In addition to these legal issues, one group will be hit especially hard – our senior citizens. Always the wisest folks, seniors have been against this bill from the beginning. And for good reason. Obamacare cuts a half-trillion dollars in health care for seniors to lay the foundation for socialized medicine. If this bill passes, health care will cost far more than it does now, or ever did in the past. It will be more expensive for individuals and more expensive for businesses — and it will provide less service. We can take this country on a path where entrepreneurship and investment flourish; where market-driven health care will provide more coverage to more Americans at a lower cost, and where new jobs that pay well are created by the private sector. Or we can follow the path of more government that gives Washington more control over our lives. Obamacare is just the first step down this road.

• 

  bitohistory : Hey Boomer! O-H-I-O !

• 

  javaz : I do not know what firebaggers are, but I’ll ask when on the Vox Populi thread once we’re done here.

• 

  KQuark : Adlib 2012 is still going to be tough on Dems but the loses will not be that high and most loses will be DINOs.

• 

  HITO : TRP, exactly.

• 

  boomer1949 : HI bito!

• 

  bitohistory : What about the firebaggers?

• 

  javaz : When the seniors start seeing their prescription drug prices going down, they are not going to complain.

• 

  boomer1949 : HITO – did you see The Daily Show last night? Jon Stewart took on Beck and his Socialism message.

• 

  KQuark : I understand completely HITO I lie in bright red Cobb county where Phil Gingrey is my bloody rep. But I know their are other parts of the country much different than where I live growing up in NJ.

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Repubs would have absolutely no problem with undoing a law that would help so many…they have no souls

• 

  PatsyT : KQ now it will be the party poopers of Lets take your health care away!

• 

  AdLib : I mentioned in a comment, the gains that Americans realize from HCR will be huge for a minority and modest for a majority this year, they will mitigate some of the negativity towards Dems in Nov. But by 2012 and moving forward, the Dems will reap big rewards as the American people do from reform.

• 

  KQuark : GA is trying to do the same thing with their out of state insurance purchase. People will soon find the insurance the buy out of state is not worth the paper it’s printed on.

• 

  HITO : KQuark, I hope you’re correct. I live in a rural farm town and many repubs have that “socialism!” stance.

• 

  javaz : Oh, here’s another thing, in case no one follows the stock market, but my husband follows it, and insurance companies stock soared today. What does that tell us? It tells us that they are going to hit the jackpot getting 35 million or so people buying their insurance. But there’s really regulations on this HCR, and they could be better, but for right now, they are good enough, and that’s one of the major reasons I so want this to happen.

• 

  boomer1949 : OT – USCB 12 OH-IO 14

• 

  PatsyT : If they want to take it (HCR) away what will they replace it with? What can cover so many? Single Payer maybe? This is a chess game after all. I think some one this week got Shadegg to admit to liking the Public Option Chris Mathews maybe?

• 

  KQuark : The other thing HITO I don’t really care what Republicans say if this passes. They can’t deny what most people will realize. The Dems actually can accomplish big things, not perfect but big.

• 

  AdLib : javaz – Many of those people already suffering under AZ’s growing tyranny will see HCR as the last straw. When it’s a matter of life and death, their own and their family’s, I think they’ll move out. Red states are going to lose so much.

• 

  boomer1949 : Okay guys — what’s Intrade? Cher isn’t here to rag on me tonight – jeeze.

• 

  KQuark : Dems need to pound the Party of No message Patsy. That nihilistic approach is not sustainable.

• 

  javaz : You know what I am hoping for, and I know that I am naive, but I am so hoping that there will be a Republican or 2 that shock the socks right off us all and vote YES. It’d be the smart thing to do. Yeah, I know – smart and Republican don’t even belong in the same sentence.

• 

  boomer1949 : HITO – they will be no more desperate than before only make themselves look worse.

• 

  KQuark : Intrade is volatile too one day this week odds went from 70% to 35% which was the same thing that happened before Obama was elected. It was a few right wingers betting against the odds.

• 

  HITO : My local Obamians are having a meeting to make sure everyone gets it. They sent out a mass email to hundreds requesting we contact our congressman and 2 senators to say “do it” and “we’ll fix it later”.

• 

  AdLib : Yep, what a basic issue. Repubs want to take away the HC that 30 million Americans will get…and who may be motivated to vote for Dems to keep it. Not to mention all those with pre-existing conditions, who have lifetime or annually maxed out, etc. The Repubs want to be the party of bringing death and suffering to Americans, go to it idjits.

• 

  PatsyT : KQ I love the Make My Day Plan That is a winner !

• 

  KQuark : 220 at best methinks.

• 

  KQuark : Oh I know Adlib, there are some people betting on the other side with their fouled up little hearts not their minds.

• 

  javaz : Hi Patsy!

• 

  javaz : There’s no word of civil disobedience here in Arizona, AdLib, and you know we’re in the wild west of discrimination. Arizona’s legislature, governor, and Sheriff Joe and the Maricopa County AG are so freaking racist, and like B’ito has said, they hate poor people. No one wants to move here. People are leaving.

• 

  KQuark : HITO I say make my day. It’s a great campaign issue.

• 

  boomer1949 : Hi PT!

• 

  AdLib : KQ – You always have to allow for a possibility no matter how slight if you were to give honest odds. But remember,. Intrade’s odds are based on people betting, not on any political science.

• 

  boomer1949 : AdLib, yes it’s incredibly self-destructive , but also incredibly perceptive of our President. I’ve neve doubted for a minute that this man didn’t know what he was doing or didn’t have a clue.

• 

  bitohistory : My bet in the pool is still 223

• 

  KQuark : I agree Adlib that people, especially those running small businesses will migrate away from Southern states.

• 

  HITO : I wish I wasn’t so pessimistic, but even after it passes, I can see the Repubs doing everything and spending anything to stop it for getting the foundational start it needs.

• 

  AdLib : Hey Patsy!

• 

  TheRarestPatriot : Please tell me you all know I was referring to the Deem and Pass procedure…lol

• 

  KQuark : Adlib I go with the bettors who are usually right. Intrade has the odds now at 80% so it will likely pass, but 20% is not zero probability.

• 

  PatsyT : Hi Everyone

• 

  boomer1949 : Hillary is/was in Russia somewhere today I think.

• 

  AdLib : Here’s what’s interesting. If the red states fight HCR and encourage civil disobedience, they will decline more and more and become less populated, as people move to states where they can get health care. Their representation in the House and their economies will suffer greatly, corporations and small business will look elsewhere…it is so incredibly self-destructive . Not to mention all the tax money they’re sp[ending in a recession on ridiculous lawsuits!

• 

  javaz : Rush isn’t moving his lard butt, he’s just going to take advantage of socialized medicine in Costa Rice, and maybe he can pay for some, well, maybe he can get some and some oxycotin cheap while he’s there.

• 

  boomer1949 : Of course it would be better if I could spell…

• 

  HITO : Tony Weiner (Congressman, NY) wanted to curb the opt out not to allow states to do so for 8 years. Don’t know where that is now.

• 

  boomer1949 : If it passes,can we count on Rush Limo moving out of the countr? and no, I don’t ne Hiwaii.

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  TheRarestPatriot : I just wish the MSM didn’t play this Demon Pass game…spelled correctly right?

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  javaz : Is Hillary in town? I want so much to know that her and Bill are there for this momentous occasion, along with Ted Kennedy’s widow.

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  KQuark : HITO they can spin it but they can’t deny success if the vote succeeds.

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  AdLib : KQ – I am usually very reserved about these kinds of things but I just can’t believe that Obama, Pelosi and the Dem Party would go out on this limb unless they were certain they could get the votes. They would be smart in not verifying that they already had the votes, even if they do.

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  KQuark : More money for Blue States. I’ll move out of GA if I have to.

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  HITO : There will still be a sentiment to make sure Obama fails and/or is discredited.

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  HITO : Big RNC dollars will go to the red states to opt out.

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  AdLib : Hito – Yes, I’m sure it will be on CSPAN. KQ suggested our creating an article with a live video feed of the vote while we comment, which is a great idea.

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  KQuark : Wow wow cool your jets. It has not been passed yet. I finally think it will probably pass but it’s far from a done deal. The next step may be trying to change HCR to get votes in future.

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  javaz : I think that the MSM will view Obama favorably, because they know the truth behind the polls and they know the general feeling of the country. Yes, they’ll keep giving time to the Republicans to make utter fools of themselves. But this thing is BIG, and everyone knows it.

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  HITO : Jeez I wish I boned up on how many Repub govs we have.

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  boomer1949 : I believe it will be the latter. None of the MSM can put anything in a positive light. Positive doesn’t generate ratings or $$$.

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  TheRarestPatriot : Boy, I think the Thugs will begin the law machine…

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  boomer1949 : AdLib,

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  KQuark : now I learned a new HTML limitation on Vox Populi chats.

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  AdLib : OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT OUR FIRST SUBJECT IS. MANY ANGLES TO DISCUSS ON IT. THIS SUNDAY, WE EXPECT TO SEE THE PASSAGE OF A LANDMARK HCR BILL. WILL THE MSM PORTRAY THIS, OBAMA AND THE DEMS POSITIVELY? WHAT IS THE VERY NEXT STEP AFTER SUNDAY? WILL THE NEW THRUST BE ALL ABOUT REVOLT OF REPUB AG’S AND GOVS SUING THE U.S.?

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  HITO : Anyone know if CSPAN will air the vote?

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  boomer1949 : This time thing — I’m exhausted and it’s only been a week. Is it November yet>

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  boomer1949 : welcome!

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  TheRarestPatriot : Yes, boomer tyvm

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  KQuark : I might have to stay on my O₂ watching the vote this weekend.

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  boomer1949 : OT — TRP did you get the link I sent you?

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  javaz : Nice thing about us in the west is noon on Sunday for when the vote starts would be 9:00 here or would it be 10:00, does anyone know?

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  boomer1949 : KQ — I have to drive by a DD every day – ugh!

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  TheRarestPatriot : Hi HITO!

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  TheRarestPatriot : Hey all…living here in rural TN, I cant listen to NPR but i CAN listen to the religious stations all day…they say they want civil disobedience if the bill passes….

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  KQuark : Boomer they just put a new Dunkin’ Donuts down the street and I was doing so well.

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  AdLib : KQ – Absolutely, we can set up a live feed on an article and have a good ol’ time ON sUNDAY!

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  javaz : Oh, KQ, I love that idea, because we don’t have cable or satellite and by live feed you mean what we’re doing now, oh, that would be most excellent!

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  HITO : Thanks KQuark. And Hello to the rarest patriot. Nice to meet you.

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  boomer1949 : TRP – I know — now I need therapy!

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  TheRarestPatriot : Yeah, love songs…now I;m a snivelling mess

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  KQuark : Great to see your moniker again HITO!

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  javaz : Hey KQuark! Excellent music thread!

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  AdLib : HITO – There are always guests, usually members, I know one is tonight.

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  boomer1949 : AdLib – there’s a KrispyKreme right around the corner. If they’re closed does he like Dunkin?

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  TheRarestPatriot : Only when the hot now sign is lit, Adlib..who do you think lights that sign?

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  HITO : Adlib: LOL…I believe all deities enjoy the KrispieCreme.

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  KQuark : Hey Adlib are you going to be able to set up a live feed if they have the big vote on Sunday?

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  javaz : There’s a lot of things that I am very disappointed with the HRC bill, but I’ve changed my mind and now understand that if this doesn’t pass, that it means defeat for Democrats for a very long time. I do truly believe it’s going pass and AdLib, will you please tweet God and thank him for that?

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  AdLib : I think I may be able to coax God to post a comment after the vote on Sunday. He likes Krispy Kreme donuts, I know how to tempt him.

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  HITO : There are 2 guests…are they just reading?

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  TheRarestPatriot : Grrrr..my laptop screen is too small to show chat window and message window at same time….LOL

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  boomer1949 : Absolutely my dear. It’s Friday and payday and the sun was shining all day!

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  TheRarestPatriot : LOL…Merlot for you Boomer?

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  javaz : I love this daylight’s saving time for everyone else except Arizona, because now California is on our time, and this is perfect! Hiya TRP!

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  HITO : Reid’s statement that he will go for the Public Option add ins at a later vote came off a little weak, but you don’t want to scare off the blue dogs who seem to be waking up.

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  boomer1949 : TRP — you must be kidding eh?

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  AdLib : We’ll wait for a few more minutes until we officially begin, might be a couple more folks on their way.

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  TheRarestPatriot : Hi all…who brought the hot cocoa?

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  boomer1949 : AdLib — He better have something to add come Monday. :lol;

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  AdLib : I have a feeling that God will be very pleased on Sunday but he’s going to have to put a lot of Repubs on hold.

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  javaz : The Republicans set themselves up for failure on this one and they know it and that’s why they’re desperate

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  HITO : They are desparate…and there are no snow storms predicted in DC.

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  javaz : I am hoping HCR passes because that will be the end of the GOP and their scare tactics and trying to bring Obama down

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  AdLib : I can imagine the Repubs praying for salvation from socialism.

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  boomer1949 : AdLib, my God!

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  HITO : (bows to Adlib)due to Sunday remark

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  javaz : Don’t bet on it, boomer! lmao!

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  HITO : Based on the meltdown of Repubs, it’s going to happen and I’m glad it’s on a Sunday.

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  boomer1949 : javaz — pretty much — i’m acouple of hours ahead of you!

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  AdLib : Hey Boomer!

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  boomer1949 : HITO!!! Yea!!!

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  javaz : Hiya Boomer and high to the Merlot!

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  HITO : Hey Boomer!

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  HITO : It’s a start…needs to get better, but it’s a start.

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  AdLib : I can’t wait for SUnday, javaz. A huge historic day!

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  boomer1949 : Hey all, I’m here. Merlot and all!

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  AdLib : HITO!!! Great to see you!

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  javaz : Great and you? Am revved about Sunday’s vote! Hiya HITO!

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  HITO : Hi kids

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  AdLib : Hey javaz! How are you doing tonight?

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  javaz : Hi AdLib!

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  AdLib : Welcome to Vox Populi! Please say hi when you arrive