On January - 24 - 2010
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Vox Populi
Last Message0 minuteagoAdLib, choicelady, ChrisR266, escribacat, funksands, KQµårk 死神, MurphTheSurf3, Sabreen60, SallyT and 2 guests are online.- choicelady : ADLib - and I will live with a moderate justice, but someone grounded in LAW, not ideology! Look at all the conservatives who made very progressive rulings! People who revere the law often do.
- ChrisR266 : Break moment. Be back in a few.
- KQµårk 死神 : Exactly CL. Remember Romney was only moderate when pushed by liberals in MA. When he's pushed by the GOPTEA congress he will acquiesce to them.
- choicelady : Chris - hmmmm. I do see that, but hasn't that always been true of corporate power, political bigwigs and the Supremes? They always live in the shadow of the uber rich. And often profit from it as Thomas has done with the Koch brothers. I'm not sure they mind - we need to be able to look at the SCOTUS members' investments. Why should they be above disclosure?
- AdLib : KQ - I know, hell, Goldwater would be more liberal than any of those Repubs running for the nom!
- choicelady : KQ - I detested Reagan and think he WAS more liberal than Romney. How nauseating is THAT?
- AdLib : CL - That's kind of chilling but it sure seems on target. If Obama is elected, we can only hope that one of the Unholy Five SCOTUS retires. Imagine how many things in this country, including CU, could change with a moderate to Progressive majority!
- ChrisR266 : Choice: I understand where you are coming from and what you are arguing. It is cogent and reasonable. But I think that they did not realize another effect: They left the door open for that group to become more powerful than they are. All men suffer--thankful ly--from ego when they realize that they just potentially kicked their own asses. Do you follow me?
- KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I read that article too and think it's complete BS. This whole idea Roberts is for going back to a non-partisan approach to jurisprudence in a fairy tale.
- choicelady : ADLib - I doubt Roberts really cares. He thinks as the other three ultra right ones do that America is meant to reward the elite. This is why I desperately want Obama four more years - we NEED a decent, legally based SCOTUS, not one that is driven by Dominionist sentiment and fantasies.
- KQµårk 死神 : Chris I can't get over that they would call Reagan more liberal than Romney now.
- AdLib : Chris - I have heard some say that Roberts in particular may seek to address the negative, politicized perception of his court but I don't think that's possible. Like Bush, they have created a national disaster of huge proportions, those 5 men alone. He may have a conscience, I don't know but I can guarantee that Scalia and Thomas are just fine about how they've further wrecked our democracy.
- choicelady : Murph - I agree the real Occupy people have moved on. Glad they came back to you!
- ChrisR266 : AdLib: And agreed, this is what I find so ironic about the right's memory sanitization of the Reagan legacy. I'm just gobsmacked by their complete inability to acknowledge that the man and the administration was human, let alone flawed.
- choicelady : Chris - I have to disagree. They have an agenda, and it is to elevate the most conservative and religiously extreme people to unequal power. Their rulings - and Citizens is the tip of the iceberg - have favored religious groups over the rights of citizens to get tax credits, and have all been toward corporate power over people. They are philosophically very smart even if they are some of the WORST legal minds I've ever seen.
- ChrisR266 : Let us not give the right on the court too much credit in the intellectual rigor arena. They DID NOT think this through for one minute. They're balls are hanging out right now.
- AdLib : Chris - Yes, I remember an all out press by the Reagan Admin to bury and minimize Iran-Contra. They did win to a degree at the time with many escaping justice but his Presidency remains horribly tainted (to those who aren't worshiping Republicans) because of that outrage.
- choicelady : AdLib - speaking for only the four SCOTUS justices about whom I know anything, no. They welcome the elevation of embedded inequality in the hands of corporations. While they are Catholic, they are "ultramontagne " Catholics who have made a pact with the devil, the New Apostolic Reformation. They agree that there is an "Elect" in the world - those who are born again and bow to the rich and powerful - and they deserve to triumph. The Church hates this view but won't censure these four since they are too powerful.
- escribacat : Adlib -- apparently uber conservative John Yoo thinks Roberts and Kennedy will go with the progressives on the court and uphold ACA..partly because of Citizens United.
- MurphTheSurf3 : CL...the real Occupy organizers and activists have moved Occupy to other encampments, on line, in courts, in political action.....we were very impressed that the four came back to us.
- ChrisR266 : AdLib: I think SCOTUS sees it, and we might see them trying to balance the damage by swinging a bit more middle middle/left in some subsequent decisions this year. They've got to be crapping their pants. BECAUSE now it has gone way beyond anything their little minds imagined.
- choicelady : Murph - wow. Given my experience this week, that is terrific news. I see lots of good things happening from Occupy movements that are moving on to focus around projects and issues. Just not Oakland and Sacramento. Only thing Occupy Sacramento does is sleep on the City Hall lawn. All five of them.
- AdLib : CL - The only way to undo economic injustice in this nation is to get the wealthy to put more of their money back into the country they're taking so much from. So, whether voluntarily through futile political pursuits or the Buffet Rule and paying 30%, works for me. As you say though, we can do without the CU situation. BTW, do Roberts and any of the other 5 SCOTUS jerks who brought this upon us, see what they have wrought and cringe at their horrible decision? The damage those 5 men have done is widely on display, do they not have any conscience for how they have damaged our democracy?
- KQµårk 死神 : Chris I remember that time well. That's the first time I got politically active at all.
- choicelady : KQ - but at the door hanger and printing level and even the local outlet level, there are lots of people getting small jobs they'd otherwise not have. It's actually funny when you think about it - lots of the low level operatives are probably liberal!
- MurphTheSurf3 : Had a conference call a few days ago with four Occupy organizers who are belatedly accepting that the wisdom offered before Christmas by the old hands re. their long term agenda should have gotten more of their attention.
- ChrisR266 : KQ: There was an interesting study published by Ed Schiappa in the late 80s or early 90s about the rhetoric of strategic leaking on the part of the presidential administration. He looked specifically at the Reagan Administraiton and how they used leaks to distract everyone from the arms deal with Iran (remember Oliver North?).
- KQµårk 死神 : Plus on the right most money will go to Faux News and rich operative getting richer.
- choicelady : Chris - AdLib - I get it now. Needless to say (or maybe it's not) I have paid NO attention to international stuff given the holy hell of my own backyard. Talk about narrowing one's focus. If it weren't for all of you I'd never know ANYTHING.
- KQµårk 死神 : Oh absolutely CL. The negatives are far worse than the positives. It's a truly unintended consequence.
- ChrisR266 : AdLib: I agree, and it is the right move.
- choicelady : KQ and AdLib - I LOVE that the Koch money will go to local folks and provide jobs! I have to say that while I'm not sanguine about the impact of money, the fact that the Kochs bet the farm on WI and OH and LOST BIG TIME makes me think we can do very well with very good ads strategically placed. Does NOT mean we let go of righting the wrong of Citizens United, but I do think we have more power than we know.
- ChrisR266 : KQ: That's why they're controlling the story. They need to to send messages and put the pressure on Israel.
- AdLib : Chris and CL - Yes, because Panetta is the source, I see this as a way to touch two bases, invoke the threat of attack on Iran (playing good cop, bad cop) and showing that we are on the same team as Israel. I see this as a game of high stakes poker and I think it's a powerful move yet kind of a bluff...and a good one.
- KQµårk 死神 : Bill Maher bashing OWS now
- KQµårk 死神 : CL you are absolutely right about the leak. I'm sure Obama is furious with Israel.
- ChrisR266 : Bing is icky.
- choicelady : Chris - yes. Bing.
- KQµårk 死神 : And you know the $1 billion plus the Dems put in will go to local printers and stuff even more.
- ChrisR266 : Choice: BING? ewwwwww.
- choicelady : Chris - I did not see Google. Gives me the creeps! Bing was here before 7 our time. TWO of them crawling!
- KQµårk 死神 : Another thing Romney is fighting is he says Obama does not work with our allies. Yet the pentagon announcing that we are speeding withdrawal from Iran is in line with what the allies want. Actually Romney sounded petty with his who attack on leaving Afghanistan earlier.
- AdLib : KQ - So true, with the Kochs pouring $100 million or more into the race and others pouring in a total of maybe a billion on the GOP side, that money will ironically be spent locally in many states and boost income and jobs. They're helping "Obama's" economy by trying to defeat him!
- ChrisR266 : Ok, google's gone... Back to the drinking and partying!
- choicelady : AdLib - If Panetta leaked the Israeli stuff, there's a reason. I know him slightly (and he pretends to know me - he doesn't) and have found him always credible. Then I feel better because if it's WH strategy, I'm more comfortable with it even if I can't see why. Yeah - I trust them.
- ChrisR266 : Who the hell let google back in here? Sheesh.
- ChrisR266 : Choice: Yes. That's what I mean. Old lesson, but true and accurate lesson.
- choicelady : Chris - you mean that corporations are finally -FINALLY - figuring out what Henry Ford knew over a century ago? You have to pay people or they don't consume your stuff? Yeah - all this offshoring and downsizing and pushing wages down has an impact - and it's NOT GOOD for BUSINESS. Which is precisely what the book Global Reach said - in 1973!!!!
- KQµårk 死神 : Cheers surf nothing against you, just can't tell with them
- ChrisR266 : AdLib and Esc: Panetta's leak was strategic. Now they control the story and its evolution, not the GOP.
- KQµårk 死神 : The ironic part to me is the $3 billion plus this campaign is going to cost is going to actually help the economy.
- MurphTheSurf3 : KQ Serious. There was the fellow who exposed the Apple China work conditions, then the panel of Orman, Lazio, and Moore, and now the Rolling Stones Afghan specialist
- AdLib : Escrib - True but Panetta was the one who leaked this. Why? Doesn't it seem tactical as opposed to his being a nice guy and giving Iran a heads up?
- choicelady : ADLib - I find this discussion of Israeli bombing very odd. I don't know the origination, but it STINKS of provocation to Obama to stand up and declare solidarity with Israel no matter what. I smell a set up.
- KQµårk 死神 : AdLib this saber rattling between Israel, Iran and the US has been going on for over 30 years.
- ChrisR266 : KQ: Here's the rub: the big money is going to hedge its bets by donating to GOP candidate(s), but they also realize that they can't make this recession thing go on any longer. They put their sorry asses between a rock and a hard place. Now they really are suffering profits because they've been sabtogaging.
- KQµårk 死神 : Surf are you being serious or sarcastic? I can't tell with Maher.
- choicelady : Thanks for the link, KQ - that is SUPER news! And let's thank Mrs. O and Mrs (Dr.) B.? Those two very cool women made this their top priority.
- escribacat : Adlib, Israel bombed the Iraq nuke site back in the 80s.
- AdLib : On Israel, I do agree that this threat is being done as a tactic, to pressure Iran to come to the table for talks. Would Israel openly bomb Iran? I think it's less likely. Might Iran feel cornered and do something stupid? Possibly but here too, I think finding a way to diffuse things will be their focus too.
- MurphTheSurf3 : Really mature discussion on Real Time tonight.
- escribacat : The KOch conference just promised $200 million to fight Obama
- KQµårk 死神 : Actually today's drop makes the unemployment rate for all vets 7.5%. That's huge.
- ChrisR266 : Hi Sabreen!
- escribacat : CL -- I loved that little piece about the door kicking
- choicelady : Hey Sabreen! Lovely to see you!
- KQµårk 死神 : It was on ThinkProgress here's the link. «link»
- choicelady : Chris - LOL!! I never forget the photoshopped "announcement" about bin Laden with Obama supposedly walking offstage and kicking the door open! Phony but funny! He has cojones OK.
- ChrisR266 : Murph: Romney doesn't mingle, play, speak, relate, understand, persuade, posture, or anything well on the public level.
- escribacat : Hi Sabreen
- AdLib : Hey Sabreen!
- Sabreen60 : Hi folks!
- escribacat : I've always felt confident that Obama will win
- choicelady : KQ - that is marvelous news! Now if someone could come down my alley and do the same for the Vietnam vets...
- escribacat : KQ -- that's huge
- ChrisR266 : KQ: In some ways, I think the electorate will be more determined to stay the course with Obama if overseas events blow up. He's proven his balls in this arena, the others haven't.
- KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I thought here and Callista could be sisters.
- KQµårk 死神 : The best part about today's jobs numbers was unemployment for Iraq and Afghanistan war vets was down a whopping 6%.
- AdLib : CL - The woman who runs Komen looks like a walking advertisement for the RW GOP. When she came out to do damage control, she lied lack a typical Repub. She did a lot of damage just by trying to quell the controversy. Agreed, I am not donating one more penny to these frauds.
- MurphTheSurf3 : I suspect Romney has always been a poor communicator on the personal level. That is his reputation. So much of successful informal interviewing is the candidate communicating "on a personal level with the electorate. He just does not do it well. Romney does not mingle well.
- choicelady : es - yes I did see Sally's link. What is the MATTER with people? If I boycotted some event the Catholic church had something to do with because of their horrific child molestation response, you'd never hear the end of it.
- ChrisR266 : Choice: There's so much flying around about SGKF, we need a dedicated time to talk about just it.
- KQµårk 死神 : Oh Chris I hope like you he does handle it. I was just using it as a possible disaster.
- escribacat : CL -- did you check out that link that Sally posted? There's a really interesting background story about Komen
- choicelady : AdLib - I think Mitt has done himself incalculable damage with his comments. He has terminal foot-in-mouth disease.
- ChrisR266 : KQ: I must respectfully disagree. If Israel blows it, Obama will handle it. The rest of them will be spouting off and sound like idiots.
- KQµårk 死神 : To me his lies about the president makes him just as bad as any of them.
- choicelady : AdLib - never did donate to Koman, but I heard they suddenly have taken back or not given the usual $12 million to Johns Hopkins, one of the premier cancer research centers, because some unit of JH does stem cell research. So no - find another place to donate. They did NOT actually say they'd fund PPFA - just that they would not DEfund them this year. Weasel words.
- escribacat : isn't
- escribacat : I hope Israel is "timing" their event to manipulate our elections
- KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely AdLib. I really think Romney is toast unless something big happens like Israel attacks Iran.
- escribacat : Just less repulsive than the rest of them.
- escribacat : Adlib, I always thought he was a rich uncaring jerk.
- ChrisR266 : AdLib: Is that the CAP question to begin the evening?
- escribacat : Chris -- midwest always gets worse snow than we do.
- choicelady : Chris - gladly take the rain off your hands. Or head. We are below 50% of normal. Some is predicted for next week, but we shall see.
- AdLib : So, has Romney cemented his image this week as a rich, uncaring jerk?
- ChrisR266 : Esc: OH-IO Columbus area.
- escribacat : CL--it's pretty unusual. We have fairly mild winters here
- KQµårk 死神 : We will never donate to Konen the Barbarian again. But it's hard not to by good products when you shop for things you 'need'.
- choicelady : es - well, good luck. I saw how hard it had snowed in that area. It's beautiful, but...
- escribacat : Chris -- where are you?
- ChrisR266 : Choice: You can have some of our rain. We've had a reprieve this week, but it's coming back Sunday.
- escribacat : I'm between Boulder and denver...It took a long time to shovel this morning!
- ChrisR266 : Esc: we had 2 1/2 feet on the ground this time last year. So far this year we've had only a trace.
- choicelady : es - where ARE you? I hope you're not snowed in. Unless you have everything you need. Clearly you have power!
- AdLib : So, to be ethical, do we stop buying products from Dell and Apple and stop contributing to the Susan Komen fund?
- escribacat : KQ -- Good, they can have the poisonous dog food now
- KQµårk 死神 : I saw where India passed the US as China's biggest trading partner.
- choicelady : Chris - I'm so glad it's nice! It's nice here, too. We hate it. We need the rain!
- escribacat : Chris -- yep.
- escribacat : CL -- Me too.
- ChrisR266 : Esc: A foot? Are you in the Rocky Mountain High?
- KQµårk 死神 : As long as Asia will provide virtual slave labor there will be less manufacturing in all Western countries.
- AdLib : Cheers Chris!
- AdLib : Escrib - I don't know why I didn't put the pieces together before about Dell, he's TX based and a corporate CEO...the odds weren't in our favor.
- choicelady : AdLbi - OMG - that donation list is horrible! And we helped him PAY for that! Well, when this thing dies, no more Dells!
- escribacat : I've got over a foot of snow today!!
- ChrisR266 : Evening, AdLib. You're looking smart tonight.
- ChrisR266 : Hi Choice! The weather has been balmy and lovely. A wonderful sunny 50 today.
- AdLib : Hey Chris!!!
- escribacat : Adlib -- OMG, that's a nasty list
- KQµårk 死神 : I'm on fire now I've got addicted to tweeting.
- choicelady : Hi Chris! How's the weather back there ("back" being entirely self focused, sorry!)
- MurphTheSurf3 : S Cat...really torn on this...been an apple user since 1976
- AdLib : Escrib - I have Dells too but I won't buy anymore.
- ChrisR266 : Hi ya, KQ. Looking snappy tonight.
- KQµårk 死神 : Hiya Chris!
- choicelady : AdLib and Murph - we have one Dell. I did NOT know that! At work we have iMacs. Did not know about Apple's use of nearly slave labor. KQ is right - can one mix one's morality and still buy hardware?
- ChrisR266 : Good evening, everyone. Hope the eve of the weekend finds you all well and happy.
- AdLib : Escrib - Check out this donation list by Dell, he contributes to the worst of the worst: «link»
- escribacat : Murphy -- the Apple situation is pretty bad. I can see why you feel that way.
- MurphTheSurf3 : CL....the situation sickens me and Apple is completely unapologetic.
- KQµårk 死神 : But maybe that's the silver lining.
- KQµårk 死神 : If you bought products based on principle you would own none.
- choicelady : es - I have to think it is the same woman. That was too weird not to be her. She? Whatever.
- MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib...thanks I will.
- AdLib : Murph - It's becoming quite an obstacle course, trying to buy good electronic products without going against one's principles!
- choicelady : KQ - that issue and the aftermath have kept me at the Capitol all week. I've gone to each of the five senators and apologized to their staff people. I'm glad I did it - it was exhausting and emotionally draining. They were HURT and it takes a LOT for that to happen.
- escribacat : Adlib -- I didn't know Michael Dell was RW...I think I've got 4 Dells in thehouse!
- KQµårk 死神 : Yeah cat that was some story.
- escribacat : CL -- hard to believe we've tangled with the same horrid creature
- KQµårk 死神 : Hey cat great to see you on VP.
- choicelady : excat! How are you? I'm still gloating over "pre-vindicatin g" you with the bitch!
- AdLib : Hey Escribacat!!!
- AdLib : Murph - First of all, I have sworn off of Dell because it's run by a hard RW. Check our Lenovo and Toshiba.
- KQµårk 死神 : Ugh CL that's the worse. Loved your piece on CA single payer even though it was a sad indictment of progressive politics.
- choicelady : Murph - I'd stick with what you have. What's done is done. I'm not so sure any other company is any better really.
- escribacat : Hi PPOV folks!
- choicelady : KQ - I can sympathize. Yesterday our refrigerator died. Came home to thawed everything. Gave some food to neighbors on disability, but at 6:30 this morning, I was shoveling out thawed fish and shrimp. CANNOT leave that too long! Got it fixed this afternoon, but the cupboard is bare. What a waste of good food.
- AdLib : Obama is beating Romney in MI and OH! And is ahead in FL in some polls, I think Obama can sweep them.
- KQµårk 死神 : Everything's fine just busy Friday.
- MurphTheSurf3 : ALL....before I foget...I am a Macintosh user. I am so unhappy with Apple's China labor situation that I am looking to move from Mac to a PC but I have lots of files and compatibility is an issue. Ideas?
- AdLib : Hope all is well, KQ!
- AdLib : That sounds about right. I think Obama will win by 5%-6%, a landslide in modern politics.
- choicelady : AdLib - Gallup used to be the gold standard but no more. The power of the merger is entirely monetary, not about cred.
- KQµårk 死神 : Hi back, been a busy day for me.
- AdLib : USA Today/Gallup and Right Wing Rasmussen showed a tie but PPP and NBC/WSJ give Obama +5 and +6.
- MurphTheSurf3 : CL...the parties really want to look democratic, but not necessary be democratic. Until the 70's most conventions were insider jobs.
- choicelady : Murph - that is just weird. When states diverge so greatly in method, it makes me question the entire process.
- choicelady : AdLib - whose poll was that? I believe there are polling firms running around that basically know nothing about the process. Probably ask their Great Aunt Tilly and call it done.
- MurphTheSurf3 : CL Texas designates half its delegates by primary and half by caucus on the same day. Really favors the central committees.
- AdLib : BTW, that poll out today, showing a tie between Romney and Obama was an outlier, Obama has been ahead of Romney consistently and after this week, it will be an even bigger lead.
- choicelady : Murph - ahhhh. All is now revealed. I admit as one who has lived always in primary based states, I do NOT get the caucus system.
- MurphTheSurf3 : CL...the primary is advisory....the caucus designates delegates.
- choicelady : Hey KQ - GREAT to see you!
- AdLib : Hey KQ!!!
- KQµårk 死神 : Hiyo!
- AdLib : CL - My pleasure!
- choicelady : Murph - how do they rationalize Newt if he's not even running?
- AdLib : Murph - That sounds very intriguing! The more obstacles that can be thrown in Romney's path, the more he'll damage himself.
- choicelady : Thank you, dear AdLib, for posting it for me. I was swamped and could NOT have done it without you! GREAT photo, too!
- AdLib : Hey CL! How are you this evening? May I say, excellent article today?
- MurphTheSurf3 : Ad LIb....since I do not measure time in relationship to any professional sport event.....such questions have little meaning...apprec iate your asking. Doing ok. Spent part of the day with a GOP insider who says he thinks the Mo. state caucus was going to go with Gingrich even though he is not on the Tues beauty contest primary. That would be great.
- choicelady : Hi! Good to see you, AdLib and Murph! I see others up in the balcony. Must be eating popcorn before coming down?
- AdLib : And Romney's nursing his wounds from not being concerned about poor people.
- AdLib : Looks like Obama's gotten off to a nice weekend with the jobs numbers.
- AdLib : Hey Murph! How re you this fine pre=Superbowl Friday?
- MurphTheSurf3 : HI!
- AdLib : Don't forget to say "hi" when you arrive!
- AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week's events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!
OK , I would have thought for sure there would have been at least one comment for sharing Mr. Grin in the Daisy Dukes…
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Hey!
I could click on your Tiger99 and get into this article!
I tried to do it before, but being on dial-up, if there are too many youtubes or pics, I can’t open them.
I miss out on a lot of things, OH!
Just scrolled up and everything is showing!!!
Oh, it’s all wonderful!
Love the first pic about wanting Planet POV back!
And oh my gosh, is that a real pic of a man stretching his face out like that?
That isn’t good for him.
Not sure where the bearded face guy’s face is and not so sure I want to know!
Love the last cartoon.
Very good job, Tiger, and too bad this isn’t on the main page!
Bravo!
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The face in the pubey tatoo is Tommy Chong…
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Wasn’t sure if that were a frontal shot or rear!
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You know, someone had their head up their butt type thing!
It’s all great.
Also like the cartoon of Rummy.
My gosh, can you believe how long they kept Rummy?
That entire Iraq thing with them going from one place to another in the Sunni Triangle was so . . . would stupid be the correct term?
So many lives lost so needlessly.
What was I supposed to say Tiger? “Yep, Tiger,Definitely,Too much caffeine!!”?
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