Supermassive_Black_HoleTaken one by one, many of the troubling events we’re confronting at this moment in our civilization may have specific causes that appear unique.

However, when viewed as a whole, the killing of true health care reform, the bailout that helped banks but not citizens,  the hatred and racism driving the anti-Obama crowd, the disaster of going to war in Iraq and the consequences there, in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the blocking of environmental actions to save our very planet…

…taken together, one can see a pattern of selfishness. A greed for self-gratification that has eaten away compassion and empathy from the souls of many people.

A hole has developed in their souls, right where the conscience of a human being should be.

As a society, we have been and are continually being conditioned to be selfish. Our TVs browbeat us to gratify ourselves by eating fatty burgers and sugary sodas, buying new TVs, cars and clothes even though the ones we have are fine, popping a pill to get erections and using lubricants to make us orgasm better, doing our part to fight a war by going to the mall and hate people because they dare to think differently than us.

This selfishness is being used to prevent people who love each other from getting married, women having control over their own bodies and people to be judged by their actions and the content of their character instead of the color of their skin.

Something is missing, many can feel it out there, the lack of something that should be there among us and  in our society.

Along the way, unbridled capitalism and corporate proliferation generously offered to give us all permission to be self-centered and worship greed and other self-gratifications…and as a nation we accepted that offer.

As the old saying goes, “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”

Corporations have no soul and they have become our role models in society. What is gradually lost along the way by those who run and respect the corporation is what makes humans noble and worthy creatures. Empathy. Compassion. Charity. Genrosity. Self-sacrifice.

There is a bit of irony that this time of year is considered  a time of giving and love. In the midst of this period, politicians, corporations and countries have acted with intransigent and destructive selfishness.

Let us begin with The Grinch Who Stole Healthcare, Joe Lieberman. One man, with no other conceivable motivation than greed, selfishness and spite, justifies in his own mind that the insurance company money and emotional self-gratification he receives from thwarting those he harbors animosity towards, outweigh the financial oppression of millions of people for the foreseeable future, including those he is supposed to represent.

Now that Lieberman has selfishly grabbed what he wanted for himself, word is Ben Nelson has swooped in to be the next pig at the trough, insisting on forcing anti-abortion provisions on a nation of 300 million people or preventing that same amount of Americans from any health care reform.

On another front in the War Against Conscience, Citibank just announced it is “repaying” $20 billion in TARP bailout money. At the same time, as part of the process, it was announced today that Citibank is receiving a $38 billion tax reduction deal that amounts to around a $14 billion windfall for them.

My daughter is in 1st grade and even she can do the math. They borrow $20 billion, pay back $20 billion then get to keep $14 billion they would have had to pay in taxes (the $14 billion they don’t pay is $14 billion more federal debt for taxpayers). This is the gratitude corporations (CEOs) are capable of towards those who saved their life. Robbing from them as much as they can grab.

The summit on Global warming in Copenhagen has become deadlocked because of several reasons, all selfish.

China is refusing to commit to new standards because of greed, it’s afraid of anything interfering with the money their economy is generating for the privileged few.

The greedy energy companies in the U.S. have so polluted Congress with money, the U.S. can’t commit to reducing greenhouse gasses because it can’t depend on Congress to pass such legislation in a timely way…or at all.

The wealthy Western nations don’t want to financially help the poorer nations reduce CO2 and other pollutions. Apparently, when the planet and the future of civilization is at stake, there needs to be a cost benefit analysis.

Next is the stoking of racism and hatred towards Pres. Obama and the Progressive movement being whipped up by those who are selfish, power-hungry and greedy.

All the Fox talking heads and Rush Limbaugh stoke the flames of hostility because it is generating more ad revenue than ever and giving them more power over the thoughts and actions of more people.

Nevermind that it is undermining democracy, inspiring nutjobs to shoot abortion doctors, threaten the life of our nation’s president and other politicians, inspiring virulent racism, antisemitism and White Power movements…it’s making them a lot of money and giving them power over those desperate enough and ignorant enough to be manipulated in this way.

Those participating in the hatred are also being horribly selfish by choosing denial over accepting uncomfortable truths.

With a Bible clutched in one hand and a gun in the other, they decry such a description. They don’t want to admit that they’ve been wrong in their loyalty to corporations, the GOP, greed and the fallacy that they would someday be a millionaire.  Admitting that for their entire adult lives they were wrong about such a core belief, wouldn’t be a very satisfying feeling.

So, they instead scream at town halls and hatefests to gratify their need to express their anger at the way their lives have turned out. They do so in the basest, most reptilian brained way which is far more satisfying than practicing self-discipline and holding back fierce emotions in a reasoned discussion.

Lastly, there are the “I-want-what-I-want-and-I-want-it-now-or-I-hate-you” Democrats who so selfishly demand the gratification of seeing everything they want Obama to do, done now or they “hate” him for not fully gratifying them.

Yet, when they take their kids to the toy store and their kids throw fits screaming, “I WANT IT!”, these people no doubt discipline them explaining, “You can’t have everything you want!”

Yet, they exhibit that same selfish and immature “all or nothing” mentality. Obama is good if he gives them all they want when they want it or he is bad if he doesn’t.

Perspective is lost on the self-centered, they only view people and situations as fully gratifying them or being a failure at fully gratifying them. The variations between those two absolutes seem to escape them.

It seems to me that this “hole in the soul” is at the root of much of what keeps the world and our society from progressing and doing the right thing. The more we’ve progressed technologically and economically, the more we seem to lose of our humanity.

In the end, it is only our humanity that will rescue and redeem us from our many plights. People dying or going bankrupt because of our health care system, an unjust and oppressive economic system that is destroying the middle class, global warming that threatens havoc throughout the planet, the epidemic of division and hatred along political lines, the undermining of the Progressive agenda under this president by people in his own party…things simply can’t continue as they are without terrible prices to be paid.

If people and their leaders can’t come together by leaving their self-interests at the door and mapping a path that is best for the majority in the long term, then Progressives and Conservatives will be the equivalent of two pilots fighting over who gets to steer the plane as it nosedives into the ground.

It’s time to fill that hole in our national and global soul with wisdom, compassion and vision.

And it better happen completely and within the next month or I’m going to be really pissed off.

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Emerald1943
Member

Hole in the soul indeed! The hole got decidedly larger as corporations took over more and more of our government…and it grew exponentially when GWB was in power. The individual means nothing…the money is everything. The corporation is all-powerful!

There is no way Americans can plead ignorance to the plight of third-world nations as well as some of our own people…grinding poverty, thousands of children dying of starvation and preventable diseases every day around the world, rape used as a weapon of war, and exploitation of the poor and working classes in sweat shops, declining wages and rising prices, the homeless living under bridges, children going to bed hungry each night even in the heart of the greatest nation in the history of the world!

There has been so much talk about American “exceptionalism” which is so much bullshit! If we were so “exceptional”, we would not allow these situations to prevail. But we can do nothing because, Dog forbid, the stock market won’t take it so well. We can’t have help for people to save their homes, we can’t feed the children, we can’t pay decent wages, we can’t have health care because it costs too much…but there always seems to be plenty of money when the military-industrial complex comes calling on Congress to fund their latest mega-weapon system!

The soul of this country is dying….and the corporations are killing it! Can we stop it from happening? I continue to hold on to that “hope” that President Obama gave us last year. I write, blog, talk to anyone that will listen, and donate what little I can…just a drop in the bucket! We have to stick together and keep pushing for humanitarian issues to take over the front burner and push the corporations off of it!

Jenuwin
Admin

another eloquent article, ad lib!

choicelady
Member

I have absolutely HAD IT! Now Michelle Bachmann and her band of thugs are having a ‘prayercast’ to pray to God to stop “government take over of health care”!!!!! Give me a break – this is the fudamental Hole in the Soul we’ve been discussing! How DARE they pretend to be Christian when all they are is theiving robber barons and their lackeys????? They care nothing for the American public and the uninsured. They have their stinking, dirty hands out for insurance corporation money and justify it all by deciding that ordinary people are poor because THEY HAVE BEEN DISOBEDIENT TO THE RICH!!!!

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAD IT! To quote Charlie Brown – Aaaarrrghgghhhh!

escribacat
Member

choicelady, One gets the impression you don’t like Michelle Bachmann. I have a theory about her. I think she is related to Marshal Applewhite of Heaven’s Gate (remember the people who killed themselves so they could go catch the Hale Bopp comet). Compare these pictures of him to pictures of Michelle Bachmann

Applewhite:
applewhite

Bachmann
bachmann

choicelady
Member

escribacat – that is an absolute howl! Thank you for making me laugh!!! I would never have figured that out myself. You are definitely ON to something!

Do you recall the Peanuts cartoon when Charlie Brown found Linus with his eyes all wide and asked Linus what he was doing? Linus said he was practicing to be a fantatic. And not JUST a fanatic – a wild EYED fanatic!

That would be these two and their ilk. Un-freaking-believeable. Can we be made safe from these dangerously wacko people? I’m not sure we can.

escribacat
Member

Well, we can always hope that Michell will also try to make her way over to Hale-Bopp!

kesmarn
Admin

Could we sell her a ticket for a ride on the super-collider in Europe? A little “Big Bang” at close range might cause her to see the light.

boomer1949
Member

Ha, ha, ha! Seriously though, she is not of this world. It’s in the eyes; they’re cult eyes.

A more simplistic definition…3 fries short of a Happy Meal.

Emerald1943
Member

It’s definitely the “eyes”! Has anyone noticed that Sarah Palin has that same look??? I don’t think that it’s something in the water.

I happened to see an article over at HP this morning that stated that Bachmann’s family had received more than $250,000 in Farm Subsidies. She repeatedly bashes all that “government spending” until her turn in line comes around…then the greedy paws are out there! What a bimbo, albeit a dangerous one…set for some committee chair in Congress.

kesmarn
Admin

c’lady and all…at last, good evening. I’ve spent the last hour reading through today’s wonderful posts. What a lot to process in the “remains of the day.” (Spent the day taking care of sick folks, but not at work. Family. Everyone seems to be stable at the moment. Care-giver, however, is feeling a bit weary.)

But to get back to c’lady’s very justified outrage: I think we’ve all had it! I sincerely hope the American people have had it, and are starting to see the hypocrisy of the phony Christians on the right.

The really sinful thing that seems to be going on is the conflation of Religion with patriotic sentiment (ONLY for the United States, a.k.a. God’s Chosen) with Capitalism. These people have managed to convince the gullible and ignorant that:
a.) To be American is to be Christian.
b.) To be other than Christian is to be anti-American.
c.) To be anti-American is to sin.
d.) To be an American Christian is to be a member of God’s Elect.
e.) To be American is to be a Capitalist.
f.) To oppose Capitalism is to oppose America
g.) To oppose Capitalism is to oppose Christianity, even Christ himself.
h.) To criticize anything about America is to offend God.
i.) America was meant to be a Christian nation and is destined by God to be the dominant force in the world.
j.) To oppose American domination of the world is to be anti-Christian and un-patriotic.
k.) God bestows wealth and power upon the Godly, as a sign of His divine favor.
l.) Poverty is not ever a desirable condition. There is nothing good about poverty (even voluntary poverty). Poverty is always the fault of the person who is poor.
m.) All other religions are inferior to Christianity.
n.) All other countries are inferior to the United States.
o.) All other economic systems are inferior to Capitalism.
p.) All the resources of the world belong to Christians, especially American Christians.
q.) The Republican Party is the champion of Christianity and Capitalism.
r.) The Republican Party is God’s chosen party.
s.) To be other than Republican is to be unGodly.

You just want to run around, shaking people by the lapels and saying “Wake up!!”

I say this, of course, as I’m just about to go to bed. 😮

escribacat
Member

Wow, Kesmarn — what an excellent breakdown of the mentality of the right wing. Really scary — as scary as the Taliban.

kesmarn
Admin

Thanks for your kind words, e’cat. Unfortunately I have relatives who believe “all of the above.” Love ’em, but the term “Christian Taliban” does come to mind.

Bernard Marx
Member

Excellent article thanks. It reminds me of a Leonard Cohen lyric:

“give me crack and anal sex
take the only tree that’s left
and stuff it up the hole
in your culture”

Pepe Lepew
Member

Canadian!

Bernard Marx
Member

And a damn fine one at that!

Khirad
Member

What’s crazy is that you go to Canada and there are full bookshelves of him at any mainstream bookstore. Here in the US, “who’s that?”

Reminded me of a lyric though, from an Irish band:

“Give me money give me sex
Give me food and cigarettes”
– Virgin Prunes

Nothing about filling up a hole in the soul, that’s just where the Cohen lyrics took me, and now it’s stuck in my head.

Bernard Marx
Member

He’s really popular in parts of Europe too.

bito
Member

While this talk is so comforting does it get on the TeeVees? are most of us not guilty of siting tapping away? Why were the last two political races lost (VA&NJ)? Do we take to streets anymore? Do we knock on the doors? do we do the simple thing of GOTV? Do we even know who our prescient committee person is? Do we attend party meetings? Are you involved in the party of your choice?
I will say this again: liberals blog–coserves. GOTV.

boomer1949
Member

b’to,

Of course it doesn’t. Why? I’m afraid good things aren’t tabloid “journalism”, don’t up ratings, and to be be perfectly honest (no offense intended) none of the BIG WIGS really give a rat’s a$$. Why? Because the BIG WIGS are and have been contributing to members of Congress since Hector was a pup.

They all own each other in some way, shape or form.

Do they care about anyone else? Heck no. They’re laughing all the way to the bank, doing a couple of laps (definitely not for the Koman Race for the Cure), then doing it again, and again. All for publicity and nothing more.

I mentioned the Koman Race for the Cure as an example of commitment to the lives and well-being of women (or ANYONE) around the world. In the last 2 years Columbus, OH has lost to extraordinary, dedicated and valiant women to breast cancer. Between the two of them, Heather Pick and Stephanie Spielman left two (2) spouses and six (6) children. Google either or both of their names, and yes, Stephanie was married to Chris Spielman, OSU Buckeye and NFL player who gave up his career to be with his wife and kids.

Heather and Stephanie were very, very good friends, and each video taped the other so their children would remember them for how they were a year or two ago and not how they were in the end when each of them was so very ill.

It will take an enormous amount of evidence, action, and humility to convince me any of our elected representatives in Washington could/would/or choose to do what is right and not what is politically advantageous to his/her career.

I have written to the White House and my dear Senator Sherrod Brown (D-OH) more times in the last 12 months than any other time since I have been able to vote.

I know Senator Brown receives my mail because I receive responses. Love our President, but so far I’ve yet to hear a word; not his fault because someone reviews his email/letters/and anything else long before it (maybe) reaches his desk. Perhaps I was naive to think anything I have written would ever actually arrive in his hands.

On the other hand, I have Senator Brown (D-OH) and, if all else fails, I’m writing to Michelle. At least I know her voice will be the last voice he hears before he falls asleep.

Pillow talk does have its advantages.

KQµårk 死神
Member

Folks we need a shift of the political center in this country not more polarization of extremes. If the left splits off to a far left party and disengages from the big tent Democratic Party it will just leave a more conservative center. I wish I could draw it in a diagram because it’s easier to make my point visually.

aBigSigh
Member
aBigSigh

I certainly agree.

escribacat
Member

KQ — You are absolutely right. No diagram needed…our center is far more to the right than the center of the other developed nations. How did that happen? We’re not really so different from them. We can’t possibly blame it all on Reagan, can we?

choicelady
Member

I’d be willing to TRY! But it really began with Carter who started deregulation and the move to the global economy, without regard to the consequences to the nation. He may be a great EX president, but he was a disater for very different reasons from what history is judging him for. He laid the ground for Reagan and the Republican revoltion of the 90s. Clinton capitulated as well. Where IS the Democratic vision any more? Since when is it evil to care about PEOPLE before PROFITS?

Khirad
Member

I can visualize it, albeit abstractly, but I can see it all the same.

choicelady
Member

I do agree with you KQuark. This debate has raged since at least the 60s. Only a couple of times have party splits resulted in the formation of a much stronger challenger, and it would not happen well today I think. We do need to bring the Dems back to the Center and away from the Right – first step, get rid of Stupak who is The Family AND is merely masquerading as a Dem. But we have to have principles, and one of them is putting people before profits. Too many Dems believe in the unfettered free market, think government itself is suspect, and really are hooked into the global market system, damn the consequences to Americans. Health care is a no-brainer: we are NOT so damned “exceptional” that we should abandon ALL efforts at an efficient, government-run system.

But we have allowed our kids to be ill educated (and that’s NOT merely an accident – the powers that were did not want another 60s generation of thinking, questioning people) and too many of the rest of us got too complacent about our own household security – until it all fell apart, and now we forget how to be assertive.

It took the Reeps 20 years to build their strength – we moved back in about 6 years, but we were not really ready to govern. We have no discipline, we are so used to being outsiders and critics we don’t know how to be assertively in control. Progressives have remained outside, too good to get their hands dirty, and we have to come together. We must. Splinters don’t win, don’t influence, don’t move anything. We need to be respectful of our differences but willing to share common visions, goals, work, and society. I don’t know if we can.

bito
Member

FYI: on KO’s show tonight, he is going to have “special comment” on HC. He can get quite passionate with his comments, esp. about HC.

AlphaBitch
Member
AlphaBitch

Hey Bito:

Just watched it while I ate dinner. Have a tad “bit’o” indigestion now. All this is just making me depressed. I’m usually the Pollyanna in the room. Now I feel like just ripping the fucking prisms off the wall, and cramming them in that mean old ladies patooty. My “fight or flight” instinct is kicking in – either go to the dirt, or run away. Just sitting here, watching, waiting is making me nutso. Patience never was my strong suit…

I agree with Keith. I think I’ll just write “Fuck You” on any mandated health insurance notice. Jail would at least provide some government provided insurance, no? And if locked up, I think I’ll start smoking, something I vowed never, ever, ever to do……..

Hopeington
Member
Hopeington

Hey Alpha B, hate to bust your bubble, they banned smoking in prisons a while back, jail too, and their health care sucks, take it from me, I know, my seizure son was in the jail and I had to go down there all the time and fight for him to get proper care.

AlphaBitch
Member
AlphaBitch

Ah, Hope! I’m so sorry. I think what I have learned the most here is that we are all in this together, each with our own challenges. Part of – oh, I don’t know – the same PLANET perhaps??

Dang…..I figured jail and ciggies were a fair trade in exchange for going postal Pollyanna. What now??? Jail alone holds such little appeal to me.

SueInCa
Member

I feel your pain and anger, Adlib. I recently read a book called “A Quiet Belief in Angels” One passage that I read in the book really hit me and I was able to see more clearly where we are headed. It does not matter if the quote was made up by the author, what matters is in his own way he pretty much summed up where we have been heading ever since WWII. Basically the quote said, “technology is a wonderful thing and it will take this country far, however with technology comes responsibility for what you design with it. When a nation takes advantage of that technology to create a bomb that will destroy a whole city, it will be the beginning of the end for that nation.” The bulk of our new technology has happened over the past 50 years, and look what we have done with it, MSM that is more interested in talking Tiger Woods or Michael Jackson to death than practicing real investigative journalism. Religions who want to put themselves in the middle of government but then want the government out of their lives. We live in a nation of hypocrits, every man for themselves. When you look at a certain website, the comments there make that very clear.

I think what the author meant was that once you are able to absolutely destroy a city or a country with one drop, and you are not condemned, you decide you can take it further and further. Our infrastructure is crumbling, our education system is in crisis, we are not caring for our planet, yet we still continue to fight two wars, everyone has something to say about something, but it is almost like we have lost our sense of responsibility to take action. We just experienced the biggest fraud ever in the history of this country and they all got away with it. Where exactly did all those losses go on Wall Street? The banks have not written them off and anyone with half a brain knows the 700 billion was a drop in the bucket. So where did the losses go? The Fed knows and so do the politicians in Washington.

Kalima
Admin

The sadness is in the truth of it, there is no denying the fragile state of our shared world and the fact that too many people never learn anything from their mistakes and the mistakes of others.

These year end holidays are always so sad for me, leave me with a heavy heart as I reflect on the events of the year that is ending, and try to find hope in the shadows growing darker as we move away from understanding, communication and love for our fellow human beings. Kindness costs us nothing, it makes us richer in every way, it soothes the restless soul.

Two quotes from Mahatma Gandhi.”

SueInCa
Member

I think most of us here feel as you do. It is hard when you are the only one in a crowd that asks the difficult questions. Ridicule is standard these days for anyone who has the audacity to think deeper.

Kalima
Admin

Yes I agree, we all have it and that is why we are here at the Planet, away from the madding crowd over there.

bito
Member

Good morning Kalima,
“Kindness costs us nothing, it makes us richer in every way, it soothes the restless soul.”
{{tears}}

Kalima
Admin

Good evening bito. I can’t think of anything more special than doing something for someone in need, even if it was just helping an elderly person with their shopping bags to cross the street. The look in their eyes carried me on for the next few days.

Kindness is such a simple gesture, we have it as small children, then some of us lose it on the way to adulthood or maybe never had it at all.

bito
Member

Kalima, Kindness to strangers almost seems to be difficult in these days. During shopping today,I was reminded of this fact. A simple “hello” “Good sale” ” Tomatoes look good” are often reacted with a look of “why are you speaking to me?”
I don’t stop trying to show some simple simple conversation, kindness, if you will, to fellow humans.
During my worst times, I have had people slam my cane or walker. What is this rudeness? It does not stop me, but it does make me wonder.

My brain is not working( for the last few days) so I will say goodnight. (i am looking FORWARD to my blood work-up and visit to the clinic 🙂 )
good night , all.

Kalima
Admin

Yes I know it is much harder than it used to be, I had a crazy afternoon on Tuesday when a few people almost knocked me to the floor, cane, limp and all but I’ve bounced back now. I will never meet these people again I’m sure and will still try to be what I’ve always been.

Good luck at the clinic, take care and good night.

AlphaBitch
Member
AlphaBitch

Kalima: I just reminded my Afghan boy (who I hope to have write here soon) about that quote; he had used it when working on a big project. I have given ALL my relatives, my Afghan man-child/boy, and several friends gift certificates for Kiva with that very quote on it. The $25 I gave them this year can go on and on and on, doing good for many families throughout the world. It’s a simply way to carry out that very quote. Thank you for reminding me! Now if I can just locate those prisms I ripped off the wall……..

Kalima
Admin

That is so wonderful AB, kindness brings rewards in so many ways.

A simple quote from a simple man, a very clever man we could all learn from in this day and age.

Thank you again for all you do, I would love to be able to contribute.

AlphaBitch
Member
AlphaBitch

In all years past, we let everyone choose the charity they wished to support, and we either chose Heifer or Arghand to support with their gift donations. With the world as it is today, with so much suffering, we decided to choose the charity FOR them, and THEY get to choose the project. My husband lost his job in September, and even though we are fine, we are living much more cautiously now. Hard to find a way that you can truly, truly believe that $25 can make a REAL difference. Kiva is a great organization, and if you let the loan ride after it is repaid, it can be put towards another project, then another, then another – and so on. So one little amount can help so many. It’s hard to find businesses that can really change someone’s life that can be “built” for $1500 or so. Have you ever checked out Kiva? Just go look at it…..it’s truly inspirational.

And Kalima, thanks to you, AdLib, KQuark and KevenSeven – you are the original four for this amazing place, right? Each person here IS a gift to me. So look at all the contributions you guys make every day! Even if I can’t write something, it helps me to come and peek in, just to see some really smart people discuss some really hard topics. Thank you a million times over for giving us this place, and to all those who make these few stolen moments on the computer all the more special.

Kalima
Admin

Thanks for the information, I’ll go to check it out.

Thank you, but everyone who comes and comments or writes posts here are the backbone of our Planet, we are very happy that you have found a place to call “home.”

escribacat
Member

Both excellent quotes, Kalima. Simple rules to follow. Who needs a whole book?

Kalima
Admin

Simple is best.

escribacat
Member

Okay, Adlib. The problems you describe in your wonderful essay are just too overwhelming for me. I cannot fix the world, the country, the many devastating flaws in the human race. For me, that way lies madness. True madness.

What seems doable to me is to make sure my tiny corner of the universe is “clean.” I must realize my own errors and do what I can to fix them. I must bring in light where I perceive darkness (thinking back to Cher’s essay about Hanukkah). I must help where I can, pitch in, encourage others, give a hug or a donation or a smile.

I live fairly simply and don’t buy the new TV, the new car, the new clothes and appliances when the old ones are still good. I am keenly aware that, despite all our problems in this country, we are still a helluva lot better off than the vast majority of humans on this planet. We are spoiled rotten. Most of us have no idea how good we’ve got it. At least one trip to a Third World country like Guatemala is an education every American should experience.

Chernynkaya
Member

That was beautiful, e’cat!It reminded me of Mother Teresa’s famous quote: “We can do no great things; only small things with great love.”

escribacat
Member

My understanding of that $38 billion tax break for Citibank is that they would not have to pay taxes on that amount — not that $38 billion is being lopped off the amount they must pay. So their savings is much less than that. Not that it isn’t billions and billions of dollars of course.

whatsthatsound
Member

My personal feeling is that what is so often characterized as impatience with Obama (and called childish and selfish and even racist) is often (not always, certainly) something else entirely. It is a growing sense that without a viable third party, a truly populist party, this countries is basically doomed. It’s not simply a matter of giving President Obama more time. It is seeing the banks and financial institutions, military and insurance company, and the media, always the media, drive so much of the debate and control so many levers that there is increasingly little evidence that the Democrats and the Republicans aren’t more like Oceania and Eurasia in Orwell’s “Nineteen Eighty Four”, self serving entities that seem to hate each other and are really in cahoots – against us!
People felt, however naively, that Obama’s election would offer convincing evidence that this was not the case. And the evidence so far has been less than convincing, assuredly.So if the choice is to continue to “have his back” and convince ourselves that Democrats are our best hope, or to begin to think outside the box about that, and envision a true anti-status quo, people-serving party for this country, then I personally feel that those who choose the latter should be respected and encouraged.

Chernynkaya
Member

I have several issues with Obama– especially about his dealings with Wall Street. But I spend some time on the Huffington Post, where I read the comments of Reptilians and other Reich-wing types, and let me tell you– there is a huge difference in the Parties!

Do you think FDR or LBJ were the same as Hoover and Goldwater? because I don’t. I may not be as enthralled with Obama as I was– not by a long-shot, but I know that I have real hatred towards the Right. I have seen their Christo-Fascism and want none of that for America.

Do the Democrats take campaign bribes from big business– yes. Are they good enough–not at all. But to me, it is not a choice between voting for the lesser of two evils; it is a choice between real evil and mediocrity. I’ll take mediocrity.

But what I’ll also do is to continue to work for real Progressives, and to hold all Dems feet to the fire any way I can.

That said, I would love to find a way to make my Progressive voice heard, and one way to do that is by voting a third party liberal or socialist candidate. I won’t ever do that again, though, if it had the slightest chance of putting another Reptilian in power.

nellie
Member

We need instant runoff voting before third parties are viable rather than spoilers.

Chernynkaya
Member

How would that work? Would it be like you vote and then next week, vote again? That’s intriguing!

nellie
Member

It’s a great system because there’s no waiting. You vote for candidates by ranking them, 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice. When ballots are tabulated, if your 1st choice comes in last, your vote goes to your second choice.

It’s an instant runoff. It’s used in several cities right now, and several states are trying to get it implemented statewide. It would have prevented the debacle of 2000.

It’s my favorite electoral reform issue. It was big w the Green Party a few years ago.

whatsthatsound
Member

The point is not only that there is, what you say, a huge difference in the parties (I’m not sure it’s big enough to merit that description). It is also that we, as citizens, must not let that become a form of blackmail that enables the Democrats to get away with pulling crap on us. People on the other side most certainly feel the same way, that the Republicans aren’t perfect, but ANYTHING is better than those “terrible Democrats”. Thus do both parties behave like the nations in “Nineteen Eighty Four”, using the odiousness of the opposing party as an allowance to behave dreadfully. We become like frogs slowly boiling in a pond, and when some of the frogs start saying they are ready to bail on the pond and go look for another place to live, their fellow frogs tell them, “But you’ll die so much more quickly if you leave! Besides, we need you to stand with us and keep yelling at the sun so that it starts paying attention to us and treats us better!” And the bailing frogs think, “Uh, good luck with that!”

KQµårk 死神
Member

I think what you are describing is more societies trends towards globalization and technological progress outpacing social progress. Both these factors favor corporate consolidation to try and control our lives. I also think if you look back in history people are still better off in the industrialized world than they were before looking at history in broader strokes. We are still infants socially speaking. Some things are better in Europe but they are discontent as well evidenced by they slide back toward the center.

The only thing where I think you are wrong about is inpatients. Inpatients drives us away from sticking with a grand strategy and promotes apathy. When I worked in research if you kept on changing goals and did not make steady progress nothing was accomplished.

Sure we are in a new “Gilded Age” at the depth of the pendulum but we will swing back up again. Until then we have to select the best options before us. Our political system does not empower third parties, it’s just the Holy Grail.

Pepe Lepew
Member

I saw another good quote today.
Obama will sign a health care reform bill. It will piss off both the liberals and the conservatives …. but the liberals will eventually come around to supporting it.

I don’t know if I 100 percent agree with that statement, but it was an interesting take on things I hadn’t thought about in that way before.

escribacat
Member

That statement sounds accurate to me. You have to wonder, if this bill is so lame, then why are the republicans and insurance companies still so dead set against it?

Chernynkaya
Member

That’ what I’ve been wondering too!! I think we should figure that out. (You first–LOL!)

escribacat
Member

LOL. The ways of the rightwingers are a mystery to me. Maybe 95% of all reactions at this point are just automated.

boomer1949
Member

RoboCalls?

boomer1949
Member

Why? Because it doesn’t benefit them; these Yahoos would stand to lose big time. Translation = the have nots would move up the food chain, and OMG, we can’t have that happen.

nellie
Member

Any bill hurts the GOP. They want to say the dems can’t get anything done.

nellie
Member

It’s a beginning. It will probably take congress enacting the first revision that brings back some of the progressive aspects that were lost this time around. Then people will begin to see the value of just getting the process started.

Chernynkaya
Member

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2009/120809LEVINE.shtml

The above is an article I came across just now while organizing my bookmarks. It’s about how we as citizens are too broken and demoralized to protest, and why. Worth a read, and so appropriate to what you wrote about, AdLib.

boomer1949
Member

Similar to water boarding; eventually one gives up the fight.

SueInCa
Member

thanks, I will definitely give it a read.

Chernynkaya
Member

One of the main motivations for the return of theocracies in the Muslim world is the sense that secular governments are corrupt and behave reprehensibly. The Taliban came into power and were encouraged to do so by the populace because of the excessive corruption of the government. Same in Iran, after the Shah. I am simplifying here, but it was certainly a factor. People crave justice, fairness. They look to theocracy as a hope that at least in those institutions, morality might triumph. Sadly, power corrupts.

KQµårk 死神
Member

That’s why the Age of Enlightenment thinkers were so incredible. The had their morality some based on faith yet they were able to refrain from adding religion to government. But then again in many ways the theocracy was the most corrupt power. Maybe the people just inherently hate and want to change corrupt systems no matter what makes them corrupt.

Chernynkaya
Member

The Founding Fathers were amazing– pure genius. They knew the corrupting power of the Church, Anglican and Catholic. And I agree; people hate unfairness. Perhaps it’s part of our humanity, the pattern-making part that needs rules. Of course, in the case of theocracies, we jump from the frying pan right into hell. But I understand the impulse to try a form of government where the rules are known, spelled out and codified, as a theocracy’s is.

javaz
Member

Didn’t the oppression of workers and dwindling middle class and greed and selfishness of the rich prompt communism?

And then there’s the French Revolution.

It seems like the rich have always ruled the world.

KQµårk 死神
Member

It sure did but also don’t forget that greed in the “Gilded Age” lead to the labor movement in England and this country.

Chernynkaya
Member

I’m no expert on that, but I don’t think either France or Russia had a middle-class.

On the other hand, the Magna Carta was signed in 1215, reigning in the power of the King of England. It was the culmination of the peasant and nobles’ revolt.The Magna Carta is considered the founding document of English liberties and hence American liberties.

We need a new Magna Carta, curbing the powers of corporations. I’m ready for revolution.

bito
Member

Our resident scholar on this topic wrote this yesterday:
choicelady says:
12/15/2009 at 7:17 PM

bit

Chernynkaya
Member

Thanks, Pepe for bringing C’Lady’s comment forward.

escribacat
Member

Things aren’t bad enough for a revolution. Perhaps they would have been if we had let the system collapse last fall.