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AdLib On December - 4 - 2009
  • AdLib : Click here to go to the after-chat post: «link» x

  • BigDogMom : Ok, where to next? x

  • escribacat : Way more fun than watching. x

  • BigDogMom : Thanks, this was great! x

  • Tom_Joad : thanks Adlib x

  • escribacat : night tom x

  • Tom_Joad : g’night all! x

  • kesmarn : Whew! I’m outa breath. Thanx AdLib x

  • escribacat : BDM LOL x

  • KQuark : Seriously this was fun. x

  • BigDogMom : Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, please remove all personal belonging, thank you x

  • PatsyT : You betcha..Thanks Ad Lib great Job! x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Thanks! this was great! x

  • KQuark : So what is it? You don’t have to go home but you can’t stay here? x

  • escribacat : thank you adlib. x

  • nellie : Thanks AdLib! This was great!!!! x

  • escribacat : okaybye x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : The GOP is SOL when it comes to ideas as well x

  • Tom_Joad : BDM, it looks impossible for GOP to win in 2012 – but there could be a catastrophe for the dems. x

  • AdLib : OKAY FOLKS, WE’VE REACHED THE END OF OUR EXTENDED LIVE CHAT. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR SUCH A FUN AND SUCCESSFUL DEBUT TO THIS FEATURE!! REALLY!!! LET’S CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON THE RELATED POST, CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK TO GO THERE: «link» x

  • escribacat : Patsy…the only GOP choices…boring or crazy. x

  • KQuark : True I’m thinking of the general in this case but sure the nomination. x

  • PatsyT : Sad -Nellie -they have to go boring to avoid crazy x

  • escribacat : YEP x

  • nellie : BDM — exactly x

  • Tom_Joad : KQ ENviro don’t mean squat to the GOP x

  • BigDogMom : Looks like the GOP are shit out of luck when it comes to canidates x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Why is that KQ x

  • escribacat : I think Pawlenty has some baggage…can’t remember what tho. x

  • nellie : Boring is better than crazy x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Pawlenty is boooooooooooooor ing. x

  • FeedUp : Not only that I am a girl, and I want to beat up Pawlenty, he looks like a sissy…. x

  • KQuark : Huntsman’s environmental record will kill him in electoral politics. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : :) x

  • escribacat : I thought there was some problem with Pawlenty though… x

  • PatsyT : Graba– You Betcha Yea Baby !!! x

  • nellie : Grab — HA! x

  • BigDogMom : God hasn’t told Bachman she can run for Pres. yet, she still waiting for a sign x

  • escribacat : I think McCain has already gone senile. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Miss Quit/Miss Twit 2012 x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Palin/Bachmann x

  • KQuark : Pawlenty is real disappointing. He was a little more moderate but he’s completely sold his soul now. x

  • Tom_Joad : yeah, O wanted him for something x

  • kesmarn : Cat–during the campaign. He was addressing a crowd. Didn’t even seem to know he did it! x

  • PatsyT : BDM LOLOL x

  • nellie : But it’s a serious ticket x

  • escribacat : BDM GGGAAAAKKKKK x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Rom and Paw in 2012………… zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz x

  • BigDogMom : LOU DOBBS 2012 x

  • escribacat : Huntsman? Didn’t Obama try to get him? x

  • BigDogMom : @kernsman…LOL x

  • Tom_Joad : Who’s the UT gov? He’s lurking as a candidate – Huntsman? x

  • escribacat : kesmarn. when did he say that???lol x

  • nellie : KQ I think you’ve got it x

  • escribacat : KQ maybe x

  • kesmarn : Remember when McCain said “my fellow prisoners”? Hoo-boy. That was scary. x

  • KQuark : Romney/Pawlenty 2012 x

  • BigDogMom : @e’cat …LOL x

  • nellie : I always thought Bush Sr was kind of a Mr. Rogers. x

  • PatsyT : Nellie Jindahl …. Mr Rodgers on zoloft x

  • KQuark : Never in 1,000,000 years Jindal he’s too black. x

  • AdLib : Ultimately, it would be between Romney and Palin, two destined losers. Things look good so far… x

  • FeedUp : Romney needs to stay clear of Palin, if he is serious x

  • escribacat : nellie…jindal will never overcome the Mr. Rogers problem. x

  • Tom_Joad : Mitmo will never have Palin. no way. x

  • nellie : Romney/Jindal x

  • escribacat : BDM…I think mccain lost his mind some years ago x

  • KQuark : Good point adlib they will all be so right they’ll end up in the gutter. x

  • BigDogMom : Do you really think McCain will be alert enough by 2012 x

  • escribacat : Romney/Palin? x

  • AdLib : The most recent stats on palin, only 28% of the nation thinks she is fit to be president, even after all the press and media. x

  • Tom_Joad : KQ: THe Hucubus is done – too soft on crime. Clemmons is not the only commuted who killed x

  • PatsyT : I would love to see the debate with Palwentty Palin and Romney x

  • FeedUp : Romney will be the nominee x

  • kesmarn : KQuark–agree Huckabee is toast. x

  • escribacat : Nellie, yes, he did x

  • BigDogMom : Huck-a-buck is out already x

  • escribacat : Maybe old McCain will run again!!! x

  • nellie : I thought Huck dropped out yesterdya x

  • KQuark : I still think Romney will take it. This clemency thing will kill Huckabee in the primaries. x

  • nellie : They’ll come up w someone. x

  • Tom_Joad : Mitmo HelmetHairMagicU nderwear (that’s mean). x

  • nellie : KQ, your cap is safe x

  • AdLib : The best thing about Palin running for the 2012 nom is that she will force all of the others to run so far right and loony, they could never get elected by the majority of voters. x

  • BigDogMom : Mr. Magic Underwear x

  • PatsyT : Their bench is week x

  • KQuark : Remember I still have to eat my favorite BB cap if Palin wins the primary. x

  • escribacat : Kesmarn…like Bush x

  • nellie : Only a FEW people are bedazzled. x

  • kesmarn : nellie–hope you’re right. People seem bedazzled by Palin. More than willing to overlook her brainlessness. x

  • nellie : Rachel calls him MIttens. x

  • Tom_Joad : Mitmo can’t win – the fundies will never stand for it x

  • BigDogMom : @Tom – Did you see Becks new book coming out, it looks like it will be the teabagger manifesto x

  • KQuark : nellie I feel bad for the people that do just want to perform an art or sport who become famous. Because many of those people are reluctantly famous. x

  • AdLib : Palin could never win, folks. 2008 was the year that white voters were outnumbered and with a threat like Palin to drive minority voters out to the polls, she would be buried. x

  • nellie : ecat — yes she is. x

  • Tom_Joad : Nell: she can’t win, but she’ll be their candidate x

  • nellie : That’s Palin can’t win. So don’t be scared. x

  • escribacat : Nellie, I agree. She is her own worst enemy. Like Beck. x

  • nellie : Paln can’t win. x

  • Tom_Joad : BDM, scares me, too. and they will come armed x

  • escribacat : Grab..me too x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I’ll move to Canada! x

  • BigDogMom : @Tom, that’s what scares me about her and Beck x

  • nellie : A teabag! LOLOL!!! x

  • escribacat : Tom, I truly think Palin would be extremely dangerous x

  • KQuark : Next to opportunistic narcissist in Wiki you see Aryanna’s picture. x

  • Tom_Joad : her rallies will be something to behold. think Nuremburg x

  • AdLib : nellie – The RNC is between a rock-for-brains candidate and a teabag. That’s the only candidate who the religious right and the motivated base will support. x

  • escribacat : BDM — because of the cult around Obama. x

  • BigDogMom : The GOP seem to be going for the personality politician x

  • nellie : KQ – that’s what I decided. Unless you have a passion and do something really well. THen fame will find you. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : morning Joe won’t take the pay cut x

  • kesmarn : Palin would be best for Dems. But she still scares me. How many fundies are there out there! I dunno! x

  • KQuark : Morning Ho? x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : can you imagine if it’s Palin Obama will get ALL the electoral votes. x

  • escribacat : How about Arianna? x

  • Tom_Joad : GOP currently silly enough to choose Palin x

  • nellie : Will the RNC allow it AdLib? x

  • PatsyT : How about morning Joe x

  • KQuark : Seeking fame must be a narcissistic trait. x

  • PatsyT : The field is empty and no one is planting any seeds x

  • AdLib : I am pulling for Palin to be the GOP candidate in 2012, that would put a knife straight through the heart of the GOP. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Thanks E, I will sleep better tonight! x

  • nellie : KQ — good question. I’ve never understood it x

  • KQuark : :lol: Kesmar I love it. x

  • escribacat : McConnell wouldnt get far. He’s got the charisma of an old hunk of bread x

  • AdLib : KQ – Ask Arianna. x

  • Tom_Joad : AdLib; it’s gonna be Palin in 2012. x

  • nellie : LOL BDM This conversation has completely degraded, LOLOL! x

  • KQuark : Why does anyone want to become famous? x

  • kesmarn : Tiger’s gotta be feeling a little like Sanford right now. He done hiked that Apallachian trail. x

  • nellie : And she gets to stay married to him x

  • BigDogMom : Hey I would settle for just $1M x

  • PatsyT : You are right Grab about tiger- how about the the gate crasher? x

  • AdLib : So, Pawlenty, McConnell or Romney in 2012? x

  • escribacat : 70 mil would be very comforting x

  • nellie : KQ LOL x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Well if Tiger runs as a Repub he has the values part down. x

  • escribacat : KQ LOL x

  • nellie : settlement for Tiger’s wife x

  • KQuark : Tiger must be a tiger in more ways than one. ;-) x

  • escribacat : 70 mil what? x

  • nellie : Oh, 70 million… x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I wish people would leave Tiger alone x

  • escribacat : BDM YES x

  • BigDogMom : Poor Tiger’s wife x

  • AdLib : PatsyT – Tiger woods – LOL! x

  • nellie : Poor tiger x

  • escribacat : Patsy…LOL x

  • PatsyT : Tiger Woods x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I like this! x

  • escribacat : KQ — this was fun x

  • nellie : He dropped out x

  • escribacat : Huckabee is now done I think x

  • KQuark : BTW this is my favorite Friday night feature so far. What do people think? x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : McConnell of VA x

  • BigDogMom : Romney because of the economy x

  • escribacat : Maybe Pawlenty…he hasn’t screwed anything up has he? x

  • nellie : Hey, I just posted something about Huckabee!! x

  • AdLib : BONUS QUESTION (FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE THE RELATED CONVERSATIONS) – WHO WILL BE THE GOP CANDIDATE IN 2012? x

  • escribacat : Boner=agent orange x

  • nellie : What about Huckabee dropping out of 2012!? x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : brb x

  • BigDogMom : Just kidding KQ x

  • KQuark : good analysis nellie. x

  • kesmarn : Any chance for Boehner in 2012? x

  • PatsyT : They are empty vessels perfect for filling the corporations needs x

  • AdLib : *wink* x

  • KQuark : BDM really how did we elect a cheerleader over captain of the football team. x

  • escribacat : Adlib…Can’t think of anyone else. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Adlid……….. ..no x

  • BigDogMom : You betcha! x

  • AdLib : Will Palin be the GOP nominee in 2012? x

  • nellie : I think that’s what we see. But I think he has a brain in his head. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : How can Bush sleep at night! Only a sociopath could do what he did. x

  • nellie : Well, he’s lazy, and he’s probably dyslexic, and he drinks x

  • kesmarn : Cat–I always said Bush’s comedic instinct were great. He could liven up any party! x

  • KQuark : nellie I like you never thought Bush was inherently dumb. x

  • PatsyT : AdLib LOL x

  • AdLib : nellie – I don’t think Bush was stupid, maybe average intelligence. His grades were awful, he failed at every job he had except Gov. of Texas…which appears not to require too much more than a willingness to execute people. x

  • nellie : I think Rove is a hanger on. Hanging onto BUsh x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Bush had is Rasputin Rove to get him what he wanted. x

  • nellie : He’s very destructive. Very charming. Classic, as BDM has said. x

  • KQuark : Bush is much smarter than Palin and actually has some of the best political instincts. But he had absolutely no intellectual curiosity. x

  • escribacat : Patsy..yes, Cheney and Rummie ?-?-evil bastards. x

  • kesmarn : nellie–I hear you. Bush is very sharp in his own bizarre way. x

  • BigDogMom : I always hated cheerleaders x

  • PatsyT : Bush has Chenny looking like the evil one. x

  • nellie : I agree w that, BDM x

  • escribacat : Nellie…Bush is kind of interesting. I actually like his sense of humor. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : she loves to play up the cutesy crap. x

  • BigDogMom : Bush is a classic sociopath x

  • nellie : Bush is not a stupid man. I’m probably the only one at the planet who believes that. But he gets everything he wants. It takes a little brainpower to do that. x

  • PatsyT : Good one KQ x

  • BigDogMom : KQ- that’s a good one x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : lol KQ x

  • Tom_Joad : KQ LOL x

  • escribacat : KQ LOL x

  • KQuark : Biden was class she showed her ass. x

  • AdLib : Bush was not brilliant and neither is Palin. But greed and guile have nothing to do with intelligence. Animals can be very cunning to get what they want, even humans to eat but they are far less intelligent. x

  • nellie : Oh I get it! x

  • nellie : Foxes aren’t dumb! x

  • escribacat : Kesmarn…yes, he was VERY kind to her. x

  • BigDogMom : @e’cat – she was off on her, because she knew she couldn’t compete, baffle them with BS x

  • kesmarn : Cat–Biden was so much more gracious than I could have been! x

  • Tom_Joad : the 10pm news focused on a local woman who looks like her. x

  • nellie : @AdLib of course, that’s what would have happened x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Narcissists know how to take advantage of people. x

  • Tom_Joad : Palin was in my town yesterday. x

  • escribacat : Joe was elegant, intellectual, explaining. Palin was quipping and cute and clever x

  • KQuark : It’s also not about being brilliant. You don’t have to be brilliant in my book at all, but people should be intellectually curious and examine the world, society and their lives. x

  • escribacat : Remember the debate between palin and Joe x

  • AdLib : nellie – I would think she got a hefty advance so Palin already has a lot of money from the book. x

  • BigDogMom : Dumb as a fox x

  • escribacat : Grab..yes.. stupid but clever x

  • PatsyT : She Palin knows how to take advantage of things x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Palin is not bright, but she is shrewd. x

  • nellie : Yes she IS a grifter! x

  • escribacat : Nellie, maybe that’s why she’s charging for photos now x

  • BigDogMom : @Tom-Grifter is the perfect definition of her x

  • nellie : Is Palin really making money? Her book is marked down. And her speaking engagements aren’t paying the fees she wants. x

  • escribacat : Teabaggers hate intellecutals x

  • KQuark : Don’t get me going on MENSA. They wanted my wife to join and one thing I respect about her is that she turned them down when she was young. x

  • BigDogMom : @Tom- x

  • Tom_Joad : oops Palin x

  • AdLib : The only honest thing about Palin is that she truly isn’t bright. That’s the only positive thing I can think of to say about her. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Hi Kesmarn, it gets easier once you jump in. x

  • Tom_Joad : Oalin-the very definition of grifter x

  • escribacat : Palin is the STAR for the teabaggers EXACTLY because she is ANTI INTeLLECTUAL x

  • kesmarn : Thx Ad Lib. I can barely keep up. Fumblefingers today! x

  • escribacat : Grab…Palin is raking it in. That seems to be her main focus x

  • nellie : Hi kesmarn! x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Palin is playing everyone teabagger for every dollar she can get! x

  • escribacat : Hey kesmarn x

  • AdLib : Welcome kesmarn! x

  • escribacat : Patsy…you are right. that’s exactly why they love Palin…because she’s Joelle the plumber x

  • nellie : Is it just — we’re smart x

  • BigDogMom : Don’t get me started on MENSA, my best freinds ex is in Mensa…that’s why he’s an ex x

  • AdLib : Anyone who would need to join MENSA only proves how ignorant they are of their own insecurity. x

  • kesmarn : Hi all, just got home and this is the first live chat I’ve been on. Moves fast! Lemme just watch for a bit! x

  • PatsyT : That is one of the reason they like her. x

  • KQuark : My uncle is a typical snob. He’s a high powered lawyer and looks down on people including my family growing up. Yet his kids grew up all fucked up and never learned the values of hard work and sacrifice. He made his money almost destroying civil aviation in this country. He is the type of elitists blue collar Americans rightfully hate. x

  • PatsyT : They can not put the Aristocrat label on Palin not yet at least…. x

  • nellie : I’ve never known anyone who joined MENSA — but I know people who could if they wanted to. x

  • escribacat : Adli b….gawd….Wen t with a mensa guy once… x

  • AdLib : Talking about what assholes elites are, have you ever met any more insufferable, socially ignorant and oblivious people than those who join MENSA? x

  • nellie : Bush is not as stupid as people think x

  • escribacat : …the speaker I mention below was saying that the elite class is no longer monied, it’s educated. x

  • BigDogMom : Being a social elite does not mean you are also and educational elite…see Bush Jr. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : My husband has a Masters and he is by no means ‘overclass’! OMG! LOL x

  • escribacat : ADLIB LOL x

  • AdLib : escrib – More pops it is! x

  • escribacat : When I was in grad school we had a speaker who wrote a book about the “overclass” — anyone with a master’s degree. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Exactly BDM, but isn’t that what the Wizard of Oz was about? Finding it out for ourselves? x

  • nellie : Oh, many people I grew up w the social and educational elites. The attitudes are stunning. x

  • PatsyT : Now it is corporate aristocrats -They want to be King. x

  • AdLib : As to Elites, who really regards themselves as Elite…except politicians? x

  • escribacat : More pops to this discussion if you know what I mean. (popcorn metaphor) x

  • escribacat : KQ me too. it’s interesting x

  • nellie : I hate to call them aristocrats. They have money. And money buys them influence. That’s it. x

  • KQuark : I love the elite versus teabaggers debate. x

  • BigDogMom : The GOP fear that we who can think on our own, will discover that there is just a little man behind that curtain pulling levers and not anything else x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : It would take him a few years to work up to fries K x

  • Tom_Joad : immigrants are tools of the corporatists to drive down wages of all other workers. x

  • PatsyT : OK x

  • escribacat : Nellie that’s who I am talking about as elite…the people the teabaggers hate. People with an education. the INFORMED x

  • AdLib : WE’RE RUNNING A BIT OVER – SHOULD WE CONTINUE UNTIL 8:30 PST OR ARE PEOPLE READY TO HEAD OUT NOW? x

  • KQuark : PatsyT exactly W. was an Aristocrat no matter how earthy he sounded he would be flipping fries in McDonalds if his name was not Bush. x

  • nellie : True, grab! x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Education=Democr ats x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : you are right Nellie, the GOP is very anti education! More education is more liberals. x

  • BigDogMom : Aristocrats would be the social elite, The Bush/Kennedy Family…anyone who was in the Skull & Bones club x

  • escribacat : Grab…me too. I was horrified when he was talking like that…but he was also disdainful of student at a university in LA who were reading Plato on the lawn. He thought they should b e sitting at a proper desk (probably dressed properly too). x

  • AdLib : One very evil aspect of the GOP is using the immigrant issue to whip up the resentment of those stomped down by the GOP and their corporate buddies. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I feel sorry for your nephew E x

  • escribacat : BDM ?-? true. x

  • KQuark : No I see the bad connotation of elite being people like Bush that only get where they are because of their family name. x

  • PatsyT : Aristocrats ? x

  • escribacat : My nephew, a republican, is studying philosophy. His recent description of London was that it was taken over by ignorant immigrants who were ruining the place. x

  • AdLib : escrib – I know the feeling. I was spoiled living here in L.A. and astonished at how racism is still going strong in the south. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : What a shame E. I thought things were bad here in Detroit. x

  • nellie : They have critical thinking skills x

  • BigDogMom : e’cat there social elitism and then there’s educational elitism…I live with the social kind x

  • nellie : Educated people are a threat to the GOP x

  • KQuark : It’s the way the right frames elites like people coming from the best schools are elitist liberals. I call them bright enlightened people. Of course bright people come from many places but mental acuity should not be looked down upon like the GOP does. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : ? x

  • escribacat : Adlib … Shortly after leaving SF, I spent a couple months in St. Louis. I went to the arch with a black guy from work. Some people were watching us very carefully with HATE in their eyes. I was stunned. x

  • nellie : BDM — educated = elite? x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : ? x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : ? x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : x

  • Tom_Joad : oh, now I’m going to press ALt and lots of other keys just to see what comes up x

  • AdLib : escrib – Yes, I’m in L.A. and I know what you mean. I spent a lot of time in Louisiana (before and after Katrina) and though in Baton Rouge and New Orleans it’s not as bad, it is openly practiced. I knew a white woman with a black boyfriend who had to hide it because she worked with legislators and was fearful of losing her career. x

  • nellie : I don’t have alt — I’m on a mac :-( x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Nellie, press the ALT button and then the number 3 on the number pad. let go of the 3 then the ALT button x

  • escribacat : Elitism is like the people BDM was describing earlier today. x

  • BigDogMom : I see elitism as being educated x

  • KQuark : ;-) x

  • KQuark : Something racist no doubt but why were you at HP. Caught you! x

  • nellie : KQ – true. I guess I think educated and expertise rather than elitism. It always has a negative connotation for me. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Me too Nellie! I don’t associate elitism as someone with a greater than 3rd grade reading comprehension… boy do I sound elitist there. x

  • escribacat : In many quarters, elitism is the same thing as educated x

  • KQuark : Yeah but you can define elite as the smartest and enlightened people using a real world definition. I want smart and enlightened people leading the nation not a bunch of bible thumping dolts. x

  • nellie : Grab – how do you make those little hearts? x

  • nellie : I associate elitism w feelings of entitlement and superiority. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : you should have seen what a troll said I should do when I posted ?Obama? on HP today. x

  • AdLib : Whoops…meant to title The Definition of “Elitist”… x

  • BigDogMom : I heart you! x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Thank you! x

  • AdLib : 1 : leadership or rule by an elite 2 : the selectivity of the elite; especially : snobbery <elitism in choosing new members> 3 : consciousness of being or belonging to an elite x

  • PatsyT : Yipee Grab ! x

  • KQuark : Love it grabamop. x

  • nellie : Grap, lol, and concur x

  • escribacat : grab X2 x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : ?Obama? x

  • BigDogMom : This type of racism and immigrant hatred has been in this country for years, each ethnic group went through this, Irish, Italians, ect x

  • nellie : yep x

  • KQuark : A very ugly button nellie. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I think the election of Obama is a turning point. Maybe a bunch of troll are Palinbots, but what are we talking about 1% of the pop? x

  • escribacat : Adlib — you live in California? I was shocked when I left SF and came back to COlorado and discovered that racism is alive and well here. x

  • KQuark : It’s how you define elitism though. Sarah Palin thinks your elitist if you agree with the theory of evolution. I dislike snobs there is a difference and there are more Republican snobs than Democrats. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : when someone I know goes off on Mexicans I ask them if they would take the crappy jobs the Mexicans do and they never answer! x

  • nellie : KQ — I had to end a friendship because of blind hatred of hispanic immigrants. Some people just have a button. x

  • AdLib : Grabamop – Excellent point, the racists are a dying breed, the 2008 election may have been the turning point in history which would be amazing. x

  • escribacat : KQ, my brother could be yours….the Mexicans are the root o f all evil it seems x

  • PatsyT : Most racist will just have to die off but some may actually put their pocketbook first and those are the ones that should be seeing the progressive side of thing as a better way. x

  • BigDogMom : I use that tact of “Look it Up” with my in-laws, and it’s like they don’t want to know the truth x

  • nellie : I know some very basic people, not intellectuals, very religious — not teabagger types. x

  • KQuark : escribacat I hear you my older brother’s blind spot is immigrants. It amazes me how they caused all our problems even though the vast majority of Americans including my brother is from immigrants. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I agree Adlib but since so many are old, the numbers are dropping every day. x

  • AdLib : nellie – I can’t stand elitists and I’m no hillbilly. This site was founded and structured to reject elitism even among members so I am 100% with you on that! x

  • escribacat : …should discuss that sometime x

  • escribacat : Nellie…the intellectual elite issue is interesting… x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Even at HP, every night there is a blow up over some thread about the war, the bailouts and most of the threads are conjecture, I asked how many people go and look to see if this stuff is true and very few said they did. x

  • Tom_Joad : AdLib, that’s it. the 20% are the very hard core, unchangeables x

  • AdLib : Grabamop – So it seems certain that racists’ minds can’t be changed in opposing everything Obama wants to do. I think the 20% who still call themselves Republican represent about that percentage of voters who are racist. x

  • BigDogMom : The not so religious are getting a little fed up with the fundies x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : the lack of intellectual interest will be hard to overcome. x

  • nellie : What distinguishes this group is that they are against this president. That’s all. x

  • Tom_Joad : religious divide cannot bridged. the fundies are dug in, and dug in deep on that. there is no compromise in their view x

  • nellie : Well again, there are plenty of people who aren’t intellectual types, who don’t like elitists — I don’t like them much myself — who aren’t teabaggers. x

  • escribacat : GRab…critical point there x

  • escribacat : KQ — true…but I had a terrible fight with my Limbaugh loving brother lately…we agreed not to talk politics. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : That’s why I was able to change that one person’s mind she is not a racist. x

  • KQuark : Grabamop I agree with you. x

  • AdLib : Let’s consider the issues that divide the teabagger types from Progressives. Race – South vs. North – Evangelical/very religious vs. not-so-much – intellectualism vs. someone I can relate to. Can these be bridged? x

  • PatsyT : They seem to be OK with a woman what up with that? x

  • escribacat : I think we have some things in common with them but more important things in opposition. x

  • BigDogMom : I know my husbands family is x

  • KQuark : All I can say in my experiences individually people are always more agreeable and sane but when they join groups like teabaggers all the worst part of human nature comes out. x

  • Tom_Joad : Mop-BINGO! x

  • nellie : me too x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I think the teabaggers are mad that we have a black Pres x

  • PatsyT : Rather then fear them let’s figure them out a bit they SHOULD be on the side of progressives x

  • BigDogMom : Then ordinary Americans voted for Obama, they don’t like all this negativity x

  • Tom_Joad : Jav’s post was noble in thought, but the other side will not listen. x

  • nellie : and mean x

  • escribacat : Nellie ?-? agree. Teabaggers are a small minority. Just noisy. x

  • nellie : There are plenty of working class, ordinary – – what did HIlary call them — ordinary Americans — who are NOT teabaggers. This is a very select group. x

  • BigDogMom : You cannot make someone understand logical thought when the are based in fear, until things like the Faux news go away and stop feeding that fear, things will never change x

  • Tom_Joad : I told him there was no way she would make a diff x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : E cat, I was very patient with her and never got belittling or insulting, I just picked apart every bit of misinformation she presented to me! x

  • Tom_Joad : he was pleased as punch and taunting when SP was chosen x

  • escribacat : I found their signs and screaming and attitude so incredibly offensive, that I can’t imagine ever finding common ground. x

  • AdLib : Grabamop – WOW! Well done? What was your secret? x

  • nellie : I think we make a mistake when we assume that all lower class white people are teabaggers. They’re not x

  • Tom_Joad : one is very active in the local repub party. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Sorry to hear that Tom! x

  • Tom_Joad : i must say my neighbors hold very strange beliefs x

  • escribacat : Grab…can’t imagine how!!!! x

  • escribacat : they are right…we are intellectual elites and they are hillbillies x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Hey I convinced a teabagger to vote for Obama last year! Of all the campaigning I did that was my greatest achievment. x

  • KQuark : I can’t join people that are fighting universal healthcare reform. x

  • Tom_Joad : I live in a very red state. x

  • nellie : I think racism is a BIG part of this display that we’re seeing x

  • escribacat : Nellie ?-? true. I think there are some class divisions. x

  • nellie : I don’t think the divisions are based on economics x

  • escribacat : I personally know a number of folks like that. We just don’t talk politics. x

  • AdLib : FINAL TOPIC – JAVAZ WROTE A THOUGHTFUL ARTICLE PROPOSING THAT WE TRY TO CHANGE THE WAY WE VIEW TEABAGGERS AND TRY TO CONFRONT THEIR HOSTILITY BY ADDRESSING THE CONCERNS WE SHARE, HAVING A HOME, FOOD, A JOB, ETC. CAN THE DIVISION IN THIS COUNTRY EVER BE ERASED SUBSTANTIALLY? x

  • Tom_Joad : Gomez Addams was a Repub? x

  • escribacat : Now that we’ve sorted out all those problems. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : AHHHHHHHHHHHH Adams was a troll! x

  • nellie : ok x

  • escribacat : I think we’re waiting for Adlib to give the next topic x

  • KQuark : Adams was the first modern Republican. x

  • nellie : Is this our final topic, the lobbyists? x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : BDM I don’t mean to be insulting, Franklin wanted it, but obviously it was never added to the constitution x

  • BigDogMom : @e’cat, my sentiments exactly x

  • nellie : Writing our laws x

  • KQuark : Yup and to be honest we have a system now were the executive has concentrated power. x

  • escribacat : What the hell were they doing on them in the first place? x

  • nellie : Echo that x

  • escribacat : KQ–I was very pleased to see obama took the lobbyists off the advisory boards x

  • nellie : He did x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Adams wanted a King right? x

  • BigDogMom : My bad… x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : BDM why is not alot public knowledge? :) x

  • KQuark : I blame John Adams he hated democracy. x

  • nellie : @AdLib — exactly. That little racism thing gave us the senate and that ridiculous 3/5 rule x

  • AdLib : Thanks Nellie, winding up to take us to our final topic… x

  • escribacat : Adlib, many of the founders had slaves. x

  • KQuark : What do people think about taking lobbyists off of government advisory boards? x

  • BigDogMom : @Grab, now why isn’t that public knowledge? x

  • AdLib : The Founders did an amazing amount right but they weren’t perfect. I think the Senate may have been a necessary compromise to start the Union but it was ultimately a mistake. As was that little racism thing. x

  • escribacat : When’s the last time the const was revised? x

  • nellie : We’re behind schedule x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Ben Franklin said it should be revisited every 20 years and revised. x

  • nellie : @BDM or at least not be swayed so easily by things that have NOTHING to do w us x

  • KQuark : The Constitution was suppose to be a living document and change with the times. x

  • Tom_Joad : Adlib: but that’s why we have the house x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Agreed AbLib, but they sure did a lot right! x

  • escribacat : Adlib ..excellent point. The tail is wagging the dog in the senate x

  • nellie : KQ – yes, it’s hard to argue with those numbers x

  • BigDogMom : @nellie, definately, we need to take their money away from them, they need to work for us x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I wonder how the SCOTUS will rule on corps giving unlimited money to campaigns? x

  • AdLib : Grabamop – But the Founders had no idea what was coming down the line. Now a state that has 30 million people has no stronger a voice in the Senate than a state woth 600,000. That is not a democracy. x

  • KQuark : I think the CBO estimate on premiums was a huge boost for the public option because you take it away and the numbers go to shit. x

  • escribacat : Nellie…true x

  • nellie : I think campaign finance reform is the way to remedy the senate x

  • escribacat : Adlib, it’s not an issue any more…..time to rethink x

  • PatsyT : The case for the $$$ is so strong Time to make a big Fn deal out of it and shame those repub idits to H x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Thanks adlib x

  • nellie : Thank goodness for that. Enough abortion distraction already x

  • escribacat : Stick Ben Nelson in to a haystack x

  • AdLib : My belief is that the Senate was originally created to assure small states that they wouldn’t be dominated if they joined the Union. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Lieberman can stick his chairmanship and he is a tool. x

  • KQuark : Good news though I heard Nelson’s anti-abortion amendment won’t pass. x

  • escribacat : Bunch of bleating old crooks x

  • escribacat : LOL x

  • nellie : KQ LOL!! x

  • KQuark : The Senate fucking SUCKS! x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Why was the Senate ever added in? Why not just one house? x

  • escribacat : Nellie, Can’t imagine how he could. x

  • BigDogMom : Sent Lieberman another letter this week and signed a petition to got to Reid regarding Lieberman, ask that his chairmanship be removed x

  • nellie : Lieberman probably won’t be caucusing w the Dems much longer — that’s my guess at any rate x

  • AdLib : The Senate is not a democratic body at all. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Ah I’m jinxed! x

  • PatsyT : Ecat if Obama catches OBL they will say they want the teroist back! x

  • KQuark : PatsyT you are so right. x

  • escribacat : Adlib I agree. I am REALLY fed up with those two x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : The Senate is historically more conservative than the house x

  • AdLib : escrib & Grabamop – You’re probably right, I’m just so frustrated that someone like Ben Nelson or Lieberman can throw tantrums and not be slapped down for it. x

  • nellie : I agree KQ x

  • escribacat : Jinx Grab x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : No matter whatever Obama does he is going to get attacked! x

  • KQuark : I still think the first Senate bill will be the more conservative bill than the final bill. Once the bills are reconciled the House will be the backstop for the public option. x

  • escribacat : BDM Obama is attacked no matter what he does x

  • nellie : Grab — he does tend to hold back until the strategic moment x

  • BigDogMom : If Obama was more open about talking to the senate, he would open himself up for more attacks x

  • PatsyT : They need to make the $$$ case about Public Option! It is the on ly way to get the cost down. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Maybe he is waiting for the right time AdLib x

  • escribacat : Adlib, it’s obviously some kind of tactic that he holds back despite all the heat he gets for holding back x

  • nellie : @AdLib — that sounds like it might be the strategy x

  • AdLib : nellie – I agree with you, at least Rahm is working on The Senate but I would like to see Obama more public in pounding on them…putting their popularity and re-election more on the line. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Thanks Patsy! x

  • nellie : KQuark — you may be right. I wish they would pull it apart. Get something out there to build on. x

  • PatsyT : Grab I think you are right Obama is there x

  • escribacat : AdLIB I like the sound of that theory x

  • BigDogMom : I hope your right AdLib x

  • KQuark : For sure. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : you are right AdLib x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I bet Obama is working more than the MSM wants us to believe x

  • AdLib : About Reconciliation – The Senate Bill must have a Public Option provision for it to be negotiated through Reconciliation. So one theory is, it doesn’t matter how bad a Public Option is passed, as long as one is, it can then be Reconciled into a decent one. x

  • escribacat : Nellie/Adlib–I agree. I bet Obama is working them constantly behind the scenes x

  • nellie : e’cat who the hell knows. Reid has been pulling his punches for some reason x

  • KQuark : I’m starting to believe they looked at reconciliation and there is just too much language in the healthcare bill now to go through reconciliation. You have to remember the budget limitations to reconciliation. x

  • escribacat : Is Reid just being POLITE??? x

  • BigDogMom : Are you sure he’s not, but we’re not hearing it? x

  • nellie : It’s his signature legislaton x

  • escribacat : WHY did Reid put reconciliation off the table? x

  • nellie : AdLib — I think he must be working them at all times. x

  • escribacat : Nellie, thanks. Didn’t realize no cloture with reconc. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : E, reconcilation is a 51 vote and no filibuster x

  • nellie : Reconciliation — bills can pass w only 51 votes, no cloture process. That is how Bush’s tax cuts passed. x

  • AdLib : AT this point, shouldn’t Obama really be all over the Senate? I’m not sure this strategy of staying back a bit is ultimately the best. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Voinivich is a senator from Ohio E, he is one of the few moderate Repubs left. And he’s out next year he was the only one not to vote. x

  • escribacat : Nellie — YES!!!!! Hate that mo fo. x

  • nellie : Collins and Snowe will probably come through for us. We might not even need Lieberman. Wouldn’t that be fabulous. x

  • escribacat : How would that work? x

  • escribacat : How does reconciliation solve our problem? x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Patsy is right, and Collins from Maine she is up for reelection next year! x

  • AdLib : Reconciliation absolutely needs to be on the table! x

  • escribacat : Who is Voin… x

  • PatsyT : I would keep an eye on Voinivich in Ohio x

  • nellie : We might even see reconciliation — even though Reid is saying no at this point. x

  • BigDogMom : Lieb is getting a lot of pressure from us here in CT, but as usual he’s deaf to us…. x

  • Tom_Joad : nellie, I hope you’re right x

  • escribacat : Remember how many times public option has been dead x

  • escribacat : I want to believe that x

  • AdLib : I saw Grayson on Ed Show and he was very matter of fact about a public option not being in the final bill. Bad news… x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Stupak another embarrassment from Michigan! x

  • escribacat : Nellie, I choose to believe you. x

  • nellie : well, i’m going to be the pollyanna and say I think the senate bill will be okay. Not as good as the house, but no trigger, possibly opt out, no stupak nonsense, and a public option x

  • escribacat : Bito was saying Lieb and Nelson are playing the NO card with repubs x

  • PatsyT : Dems need to go Total Grayson on this enough of this bullshit! x

  • KQuark : They will have a weaker public option than the house but I don’t know if a trigger would survive. x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : I don’t like a trigger, I can support an opt out though x

  • BigDogMom : @Adlib-very watered down if the votes are not there x

  • escribacat : I am so depressed about what I’m hearing, I don’t even look lately x

  • Tom_Joad : the sen is a mess. x

  • nellie : That’s for sure x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : We need a big mop for what’s going on! x

  • nellie : He Grabamop! x

  • AdLib : LET’S MOVE ON TO TOPIC #2 – THE SENATE IS WORKING ON HEALTH CARE REFORM AND THERE IS WORD THAT IN ORDER TO GET ENOUGH SENATORS ON BOARD, THEY MAY WATER DOWN OR EVEN RESORT TO A TRIGGER FOR THE PUBLIC OPTION. WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BILL COMING OUT OF THE SENATE WILL LOOK LIKE? x

  • escribacat : Just think how different our international politics would be if we weren’t dependent on oil. x

  • BigDogMom : Hey Got a Mop? x

  • escribacat : Hello graba x

  • KQuark : A completely different government in Iraq now. x

  • BigDogMom : Funny how we never leave places militarialy x

  • nellie : On the oil production chart, Rwanda is #121, w 0 barrels a day x

  • Grabamop/Obama2008 : Good evening everyone! x

  • Tom_Joad : Nellie: The airbase is SA was established during Desert SHield/Desert Storm x

  • escribacat : KQ remember Iran/Iraq war was 10 years long or so. Many millions killed. Not sure they’d ever team up x

  • PepeLepew : I get really incensed when I hear people say we brought Democracy to Iraq. They seem to forget all that WMD rhetoric. If that was really our intent — to force Western Democracy on people at the point of a gun — why don’t we invade virtually the entire continent of Africa … or Myanmar … or China? B.S. x

  • KQuark : That’s why I put in that caveat. x

  • nellie : e’ cat — I think that’s what brought things to a head x

  • escribacat : Nellie, you are right…there was that airbase in S.A. x

  • nellie : I thnk Iran is on a new road x

  • Tom_Joad : Somalia I believe at end of Bush 1, beginning of Clinton in 1992. x

  • KQuark : In 10 years if Iran does not reform the new Iranian block will be our biggest threat when they team up with Iraq. x

  • BigDogMom : Oil in Rwanda x

  • escribacat : Pepe, it’s in the mail. x

  • nellie : What are we googling BDM? x

  • PepeLepew : I said there was no oil in Rwanda first so everyone owes me a Coke. :) x

  • escribacat : Tom, Somalia was in there somewhere…when was that? x

  • BigDogMom : Quick everyone google it x

  • PatsyT : I liked the Al Franken amendment about Blackwater…. imagine the campaign ads against the repubs x

  • BigDogMom : Hey, it’s all about the money, oil, resources x

  • escribacat : (I sound like that nutbag on HP pee coil) x

  • AdLib : Was there oil in Rwanda? ANyone know? :-) x

  • Tom_Joad : AdLig: Desert Storm 1991? 1st WTC 1993 – AQ’s 1st attack in US x

  • escribacat : Oil oil oil x

  • nellie : I thought 911 was about the bin sultan air base — getting that out of holy land x

  • KQuark : There was no oil in Rwandan. x

  • BigDogMom : No oil in Rwanda x

  • PepeLepew : Rwanda didn’t have oil, E’Cat. x

  • escribacat : We apply our intentions unevenly. We must save Kuwait but not the Rwandans x

  • KQuark : Desert Storm gave the motivation Charlie Wilson’s war gave Al Qaeda the base they always wanted. x

  • AdLib : Tom_Joad – Don’t agree on Desert Storm instigating 9/11 – the first attack on the WTC by the same basic people happened in the early 90’s. x

  • BigDogMom : Major PTSD x

  • Tom_Joad : Pepe: agree, about intentions (original), but it degraded rapidly… x

  • escribacat : Adlib, good point. I worry about the returning soldiers….a lot of PTSD x

  • nellie : AdLib — so true x

  • KQuark : Exactly and our backing the “freedom fighters” in Afghanistan created the situation there as well. x

  • PepeLepew : Good point about Desert Storm, Tom. I guess the intent, to show Saddam he couldn’t simply invade and take over another sovereign nation, was valid. x

  • AdLib : And what is going to be the long term social impact on our country when all of these war weary and traumatized soldiers finally come back and try to get back to a normal life…where other kinds of jobs are scarce? x

  • nellie : If we could get our money back from those contractors, we could pay for health care 10 times over x

  • escribacat : I thought B lackwater was out… x

  • nellie : I think we’re just scratching the surface. So much devastation there. So much evil x

  • PepeLepew : The iraq war was a crime against the Constitution, as well. x

  • BigDogMom : Iraq is now fighting with Blackwater, trying to push them out of the country, the damn fools don’t want to leave…all that $$$ down the tubes x

  • Tom_Joad : KQ-indeed, Desert Storm begat 1st attack on WTC, Kobar Towers, Embassy attack in Kenya, 9/11, Afghan, Iraq…unintende d consequences x

  • escribacat : nellie, I shudder to think what ugly stories will come out in future about our occupation…alr eady, birth defects x

  • nellie : ha1 x

  • AdLib : Defense Industry Complex = DIC(s) x

  • nellie : A crime against humanity x

  • PepeLepew : very good point, KQuark. x

  • escribacat : Nellie … agree x

  • nellie : Iraq was a crime x

  • escribacat : KQuark…agree x

  • AuntieChrist : Imperialism… it’s the American way. x

  • KQuark : It’s the unintended consequences of war that always bite us and Iraq will have far longer reaching consequences than Afghanistan mark my words. x

  • nellie : I know! x

  • AdLib : Military Industrial complex = MIC x

  • BigDogMom : Hubby seems to think the new troops will replace alot of the MIC…I do to. x

  • nellie : LOLOL! x

  • escribacat : MI6 nellie!! LOL x

  • nellie : It took me this long to figure out what the MIC was… I was thinking British intelligence… x

  • Tom_Joad : Adlib:what did we gain from Desert Storm? x

  • AdLib : The MIC now devours the most of our nation’s budget over social spending. Will that ever change? x

  • nellie : @Pepe — he’s definitely not an idiot. I think he didn’t give anyone what they wanted with that decision. x

  • escribacat : MIC is the ONLY winner x

  • escribacat : BDM The MIC is the big winner in this whole thing x

  • Tom_Joad : and chechnya, PAK, Somalia, Sudan… x

  • PepeLepew : I also agree Obama better be serious about an 18-month drawdown. I don’t think he’s an idiot; people will remember. x

  • Tom_Joad : Kosovo is a quagmire x

  • AdLib : Tom_Joad – Not always, the Gulf War wasn’t. x

  • BigDogMom : What worries me is the MIC and how entrenched they are in our wars, could this be a sign that Obama wants them out? x

  • KQuark : Kosovo is a quagmire then. x

  • PepeLepew : Yes, I agree with the term “quagmire.” x

  • Tom_Joad : Adlib: All war is quagmire x

  • escribacat : The Vietnam analogy works with the “quagmire” concept but nothing else….so much smaller x

  • PatsyT : BDM you are cracking me up x

  • nellie : I hope the 18 month deadline is a serious one x

  • AdLib : Pepe – I agree, I see no parallel at all with Vietnam. It’s the easy label to apply to any war that looks like it could be a quagmire. People should use “quagmire” instead of “Vietnam” and it would be a lot more effective. x

  • escribacat : BDM LOL….. x

  • KQuark : Yup the schools. x

  • nellie : @BDM RFLMAO x

  • FeedUp : The Vietnam analogy derives from it seeming like a perpetual war, just meandoring through the days, with no goal. x

  • escribacat : Pakistan has been pretty radical for a long time now x

  • BigDogMom : All you would need is to drop one over weight teabagger and that should take out a dozen taliban x

  • AuntieChrist : Hello… or was I just to say hell? x

  • escribacat : Nellie, not surprising x

  • KQuark : I wanted to say bravo to javaz for bring up such a controversial topic as the teabaggers. x

  • nellie : I was also hearing that there are radical colleges now in Pakistan x

  • PatsyT : Great Idea AdLib they are all packing their own heat .. let them have at it. x

  • escribacat : KQuark–in the madrassas x

  • nellie : AdLib — LOLOL! x

  • KQuark : Muslim extremists are being made in the mosques of Saudi Arabia and Egypt because of their oppressive regimes. x

  • AdLib : BDM – Can we just drop Teabaggers on the radical islamists and kill two wackjobs with one throw? x

  • nellie : BDM — let’s hope so, lol! x

  • PepeLepew : I don’t want to downplay Afghanistan, but I always thought comparing Afghanistan to Vietnam was a poor analogy. At the height of Vietnam, there were more than 600,000 troops in that country. We’re talking one-sixth — 100,000 in Afghanistan, and Obama has all but promised that’s for 18 months (If he breaks that promise, he’s screwed). 1,400 total coalition dead in Afghanistan. 58,000 Americans and 2 million-plus total killed in Vietnam. Again, I don’t mean to downplay Afghanistan, I just think it’s a poor analogy. x

  • nellie : Patsy — I have no more to add — I just saw the CNN clip. It seems very important to me, but I haven’t seen the story elsewhere x

  • escribacat : BDM LOL x

  • PatsyT : Nellie I have just heard about this today… I am all ears. x

  • BigDogMom : Maybe they are tired of their teabaggers also x

  • Tom_Joad : remains to see if the idea takes root x

  • escribacat : I truly don’t think we can “kill” muslim extremists. Kill one, you create a few more x

  • AdLib : PatsyT – If the 30,000 makes the Taliban want to come to the bargaining table, great. We just can’t walk away from it without making certain that those most vulnerable are protected there. x

  • Tom_Joad : we would all welcome a change from inside radical Islam x

  • escribacat : We can only sit back and hope it happens x

  • nellie : It could mean a sea change x

  • escribacat : the one that frankenpc posted earlier…. x

  • nellie : So unreported! x

  • nellie : what about that story, patsy x

  • PatsyT : What about the story that some radical muslims are saying its time to make peace with the combatants/ Us ? x

  • Tom_Joad : the nature of warfare has changed. casualties are lighter all around. but the quagmire is just as sticky x

  • nellie : half a million insurgents in vietnam, 20,000 in afghanistan. most of the taliban trying to make a living — because they get paid better than other jobs they can get x

  • AdLib : BDM – Pakistan would never willingly invite our troops in, the irony is that they would consider it a sign of weakness and encouraging the enemy…especial ly if they were greatly weakened by greater turmoil. x

  • BigDogMom : Not at all like Nam, politically or militarialy x

  • KQuark : Every American conflict has been called Vietnam since Vietnam. Vietnam was Vietnam and nothing has come close since. x

  • escribacat : Vietnam — 57,000 US dead. AFghanistan less than 1,000 x

  • nellie : I don’t think this is a replay of vietnam x

  • Tom_Joad : Our generals didn’t learn from that expedition. x

  • KQuark : India is much more important economically than anyone but China right now. x

  • nellie : Thanks, AdLIb — but I get lots of help from reading and listening x

  • Tom_Joad : and the Afghanization of the war – we tried that 40 years ago with Vietnamization. x

  • escribacat : I don’t know why everyone makes fun of him so much. He’s not such a doof. x

  • AdLib : Nellie – You are so damn sharp! Indeed, the timing of the India state dinner seemed to fly beneath many much higher paid media folk. You’re right on the money! x

  • BigDogMom : We can go in if asked. x

  • nellie : e’cat — just want to echo your praise for Biden! x

  • escribacat : But we can’t very well go into Pakistan with troops x

  • Tom_Joad : AdLib, I’m with you on that. x

  • BigDogMom : I think India know that its in it’s best interest to work with us and Pakistan. x

  • nellie : AdLib — indeed. It is very unpredictable x

  • escribacat : Adlib, I thought that’s what is already happening x

  • escribacat : Biden is great. x

  • AdLib : Consider the law of unintended consequences, what if our troop build up on the Afghan side of the border drives the Taliban and Al qaeda deeper into Pakistan and makes things worse there? x

  • escribacat : Yes, that dinner must have all kinds of subtext x

  • PatsyT : Biden deserves more respect he is a very wise voice in the admin x

  • nellie : And hence our state dinner w india! x

  • escribacat : Of course, Pakistan has much bigger issues with India than with USA x

  • nellie : That’s why the president decided to send more troops to Afghanistan. x

  • Tom_Joad : Biden was correct to state the war was in PAK now x

  • escribacat : Don’t forget the Swat valley x

  • nellie : That’s the problem. Escalating violence in Pakistan — very unstable situation there. x

  • KQuark : In parts of 2008 Pakistan was being attacked every day. x

  • BigDogMom : yes, suicide bomber in a mosque x

  • AdLib : Did you hear about the CEO of Blackwater operating as a CIA spy, using his “training” group inside Pakistan to launchg assassination and attack missions? x

  • escribacat : Hadn’t heard tha tNellie. Haven’t watched the news today x

  • PatsyT : AdLib you are right we should not be surprized by anything that comes from the repubs x

  • BigDogMom : e’cat agree x

  • nellie : Wasn’t there a terrible attack in Pakistan today? 37 dead. x

  • escribacat : GOP’s number one priority is to destroy Obama…everythi ng else is second fiddle x

  • Tom_Joad : We wouldn’t let them out of our sight. x

  • escribacat : Adlib, you are right. The GOP will use whatever they can against Obama. x

  • KQuark : Pakistan was much more unstable last year when they tried to ignore the militants. x

  • nellie : Tom Joad — I don’t. x

  • escribacat : I hope so Tom x

  • AdLib : My concern is that when military casualties start mounting, the GOP will not show the respect the Dems did and go nuts against Obama to stir up…if you can believe it…anti war anger. They will try to split THIS country apart over it. x

  • BigDogMom : That’s why I think he’s thrown it back on them to produce, a brilliant political move, but one he knows has consiquences x

  • Tom_Joad : I have a sense we have their nukes covered. x

  • escribacat : stable x

  • escribacat : Pakistan is much scarier. They’ve got nukes, the situation there is extremely complex, and they’ve never been particularly stabel x

  • Tom_Joad : they are fighting a war from 40 years ago. x

  • Tom_Joad : I don’t think the military leadership can be trusted to do this correctly x

  • escribacat : I trust that’s what they’re doing x

  • nellie : I’ve been listening to people from congress talk about this – they are very worried about Pakistan. I think the state dept is as well. x

  • escribacat : I can’t make the decision because I don’t have the information x

  • escribacat : I hate to confess to blind faith in my leader, but that’s my attitude here. I don’t know what the hell is going on there x

  • Tom_Joad : I believe US has control of them in some way x

  • escribacat : I figure they must have information that I don’t x

  • nellie : Patsy T — yes indeed. x

  • escribacat : patsy, I agree. I still support the president. I even support him in this decision, even though I think it’s a mess x

  • Tom_Joad : so what has happened with their nukes? x

  • nellie : It really is up to the people in Afghanistan and Pakistan — the way this turns out. x

  • escribacat : Pakistan is a bigger problem than Afghanistan, from US perspective x

  • nellie : BDM, I agree again. x

  • PatsyT : Obama could not have been left a bigger pile of crap to deal with, I have to support him much as I hate to see any more troops anywhere. x

  • BigDogMom : Anything can happen between now and 2011, things actually may change for the better and or worse. x

  • nellie : So many people think OBL is dead now. x

  • Tom_Joad : the PAK situation will get out of control x

  • AdLib : PatsyT – You mean, what will it mean to the fight against Al Qaeda? I go along with some voices who say he is a symbol but not calling the shots for this now-very fractured group. x

  • Tom_Joad : Rachel was on topic tonight about drone attacks in PAK x

  • nellie : Tom_Joad, I think he fears walking away and leaving a blood bath behind. I also think everyone is worried about Pakistan. x

  • escribacat : It’s one of those cases where all decisions lead to disaster x

  • nellie : Because it’s a tragic decision to have to make — one I’m sure he would rather not be forced to make. x

  • escribacat : That’s the trouble…I think anything could happen in Afghanistan x

  • Tom_Joad : I think it is nobler to walk away from war x

  • AdLib : What do you think will happen in Afghanistan if we leave in 2011 as planned? x

  • nellie : BDM, I agree. x

  • escribacat : Nellie, why do you think he already regrets the decision? x

  • PatsyT : AdLib – not thats what I’m talking about ! x

  • nellie : But no one has provided a good alternative. x

  • BigDogMom : I think it was a move to throw the responsibility back onto the generals. x

  • nellie : I doubt he wanted to have to make any decision like that. x

  • escribacat : More importantly, if they stabilized things so girls could go to school without being assaulted… x

  • AdLib : PatsyT – If we catch OBL, Rush, Beck and Hannity will detonate like IEDs. x

  • Tom_Joad : I don’t know about him, but I regret it x

  • escribacat : I don’t think OBL is all that important at this point but it would be a media coup. x

  • nellie : I think he already regrets the decision, but I don’t know what the alternative would have been. x

  • PatsyT : What if he catches OBL as a result of it? x

  • escribacat : Yeah, probably. x

  • BigDogMom : Roger that. x

  • Tom_Joad : I’ll take potpourri for $200 AdLIb x

  • AdLib : OUR FIRST TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION: Was Pres. Obama’s sending of 30,000 troops to Afghanistan a mistake that he will come to regret? x

  • nellie : Ready when you are, CB. x

  • AdLib : Secondly, I will be very sensitive to any personal conflicts and will remove any posts that seem to be starting or continuing such. Otherwise, shall we begin? x

  • Tom_Joad : “Please permit me to BOW” – Our President x

  • AdLib : There are minimal ground rules I’d like to start off mentioning. I will be your humble moderator so if you see me typing in ALL CAPS, please take note, it will usually be the start of a new topic which we should all move on to discuss. x

  • escribacat : …genuflecting. … x

  • BigDogMom : Welcome Fearless Leader, all Hail AdLib! x

  • AdLib : Welcome all! x

  • nellie : Hello! x

  • Tom_Joad : tap.tap.tap. Good evening, everyone! x

  • escribacat : Herrrrooooo x

  • PatsyT : Hello x

  • BigDogMom : Hello, Hello, is thing on? x

  • AdLib : BTW, to all members, please post a hello when you arrive so we know you’re here! x

  • AdLib : Give me a few minutes as I post on each article that we’re ready to begin. x

  • AdLib : You’re doing everything right, welcome! x

  • BigDogMom : Adlib, is there anything else I need to do on my computer here? Not sure how this works. x

  • AdLib : Planet Talk debuts at 7:00 PM PST tonight! A few ground rules, please pay attention to me, your humble moderator, when I announce a change in topic. I will present a new topic for all to discuss by TYPING IN ALL CAPS. If you’re in the midst of a post, by all means finish and post but please follow along to the next topic. x

  • AdLib : Also, as noted above, the immediacy and brevity of comments can lead to misunderstanding s, please do not assume negative intentions of your fellow members due to their post, ask them to explain further instead. x

  • AdLib : To keep order, the rules on live chats are different, any posts that are determined to be negative towards other members or take the discussion into personal conflicts will be immediately deleted. Yes, even we may make a mistake here or there by misunderstanding a post and removing it, we will absolutely try our best to avoid that. I get queasy at the though of removing anyone’s post but the only way to keep things constructive in this format is to have a zero tolerance for personal conflict. That said, I’m really looking forward to tonight’s open forum! x

Categories: Vox Populi Archives

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

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